extra hp for undead bad guys

[Thac0 Redeye]

Hello all, I am running an undead heavy campaign for my players. My BBEG is a vampire lord. My problem is that even with the d12 he has pitifully low hit points. I feel the problem is not being able to increase with a high CON score. Also the amulet of health doesn't help either, for obvious reasons. I have already used the toughness and improved toughness feats.
So my question to the forum is this: are there ways to increase undead npc's hp? Is there an amulet of health alternate? etc...
Thanks

[JNAProductions]

Hello all, I am running an undead heavy campaign for my players. My BBEG is a vampire lord. My problem is that even with the d12 he has pitifully low hit points. I feel the problem is not being able to increase with a high CON score. Also the amulet of health doesn't help either, for obvious reasons. I have already used the toughness and improved toughness feats.
So my question to the forum is this: are there ways to increase undead npc's hp? Is there an amulet of health alternate? etc...
Thanks

I believe there's a feat that lets you apply Charisma to HP, and another (this one I remember-Faerie Initiate Mysteries) for Intelligence to HP.

Also, you could just fudge it and give him extra HP.

[Darth Ultron]

Well, as the DM you can just make the HP whatever you want. So, you can always do that.

If you really feel like you need to use the rules to defend yourself (maybe from hostile players) you could:

Advance the monster, per the normal advancement rules.

Give the monster a magic item (remember that gear and treasure are separate). An Amulet of Tears works as it give temporary HP.

But maybe the best way is class levels. Even NPC ones like Commoner work great here as five or ten class levels don't add to the monsters ''power'' much...but sure do add Hit Points.

Aristocrat fits the 'Gothic' vampire guy...and that NPC class is d8 hit points a level :)

[Quertus]

If the vampire's problem is "not enough HP", then your players are actually playing the HP game - and therefore, according to Playground wisdom, suboptimally. If such suboptimal PCs happen to be good at defeating your BBEG, that's great! Just play up his surprise that they are ignoring all his clever defenses.

And have him come back. Over and over again. To "congratulate" them on attacking his one weakness. While he attacks their many. Like levels. And allies. And will saves. And con. And... You get the idea.

[flappeercraft]

I believe there's a feat that lets you apply Charisma to HP.

That would be Unholy Toughness but thats an ability and not a feat actually.

X stat to Y bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus) has stuff on getting stats to HP

I created a list of stuff to get more HP to undead about 2 years ago that I will post right here, although since it was so long ago you might want to make sure its correct just in case.
1. Created in Desecrate area with Altar to Evil God (+2 HP/HD)
2. Created by 8th level Dread necromancer (+2 HP/HD, +4 enhancement bonus to strength and dexterity)
3. Creator had Corpsecrafter feat and was created with a necromancy spell (+2 HP/HD and +4 enhancement bonus to strength)
4. Creator had 1 level in UA Necromancer Variant Specialist Wizard (+2 HP/HD, +4 enhancement bonus to strength and dexterity)

As far as applying Corpsecrafter to a Vampire if you say the Vampire was created with a Wish with the Song of the Dead metamagic it becomes necromancy and would work. Just make sure that the creator had metamagic reduction.

[DrMotives]

Aristocrat fits the 'Gothic' vampire guy...and that NPC class is d8 hit points a level :)

Undead are weird, and always have d12 per HD, even for class levels. But yeah, aristocrat of the night is definitely a vampire trope.

[Eladrinblade]

Hello all, I am running an undead heavy campaign for my players. My BBEG is a vampire lord. My problem is that even with the d12 he has pitifully low hit points. I feel the problem is not being able to increase with a high CON score. Also the amulet of health doesn't help either, for obvious reasons. I have already used the toughness and improved toughness feats.
So my question to the forum is this: are there ways to increase undead npc's hp? Is there an amulet of health alternate? etc...
Thanks

With it's high stealth/perception, AC, saves, DR, immunities, etc, if they're actually hitting and dealing enough damage to drop it quickly, good for them.

[KillianHawkeye]

Undead are weird, and always have d12 per HD, even for class levels. But yeah, aristocrat of the night is definitely a vampire trope.

That isn't true at all. Only some undead templates do that (ex: Lich).

[Mechalich]

The easiest solution is to simply adjust his actual HP upwards from the average values, which d12's gives you a lot of flexibility to do. Going from 6.5 to 8.5 per HD nets you an additional 2 hp per HD, equivalent to 4 points of Con, without straining the laws of probability too much.

Also, you can give the Vampire a Contingency to provide additional hp - through dumping an Inflict Critical Wounds on him or even the old standby Stoneskin (which helps to stretch out life if physical damage is the issue). The can be pre-arranged using scrolls given a few points of UMD even if the character is not a spellcaster. It's not a particularly efficient use of Contingency, but it might serve your needs.

[flappeercraft]

That isn't true at all. Only some undead templates do that (ex: Lich).

You are right but for the purposes of this discussion it doesn't matter. Vampire has that excerpt that makes all your HD be d12.

[Falontani]

In my games I just give creature with - for con maximum hp/hd. Making constructs and undead very powerful in the hp department

[StevenC21]

I agree with Fantoni. As a DM, I do this with most of my NPC bosses - especially if they have few or no allies backing them up in a fight. It really helps them to feel less weak.

From a less RAW perspective, I've also always felt that Undead have too few HP. In a lot of settings from across cultures, the undead are depicted as some relentless force to be reckoned with. No matter how many times you put them down, they keep getting back up. This idea was horribly, horribly underrepresented in D&D 3.5 I feel. Undead die at 0 hp, they have -- Con and no bonus HP per die, and its just yucky all around. Not to mention the terrible Fortitude saves, which I would have thought would be an Undeads greatest strength... ugh, I feel sick just thinking about the situation.

[JMS]

Not to mention the terrible Fortitude saves, which I would have thought would be an Undeads greatest strength... ugh, I feel sick just thinking about the situation.
Well, Undead are immune to most fort saves, with a few exceptions (Disintegrate).

For the OP, I might recommened giving the corpse unholy toughness, following the other players.
The other option is a 4e style "solo" with x5 HP.

[Vizzerdrix]

Could always stick some black sand in yer boots.

[ShurikVch]

Dark Heart of Vollus (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pse/20030628a) - makes you count as having Con 18, thus +4 hp/HD

[ExLibrisMortis]

Dark Heart of Vollus (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pse/20030628a) - makes you count as having Con 18, thus +4 hp/HD
Explicitly doesn't grant bonus hp, and is only really useful for a 3.0 egoist.

[Saintheart]

Enervation. Multiple castings of it on yourself, especially if maximised, for multiples of 20 temporary hitpoints per day. A permanent rune of Enervation would be very expensive, but gives you -- with five minutes of pressing the rune, which the lich guy might well do every hour or so -- 60 iterations of the spell, and thus a good 1,200 temporary hitpoints.

[JNAProductions]

Enervation. Multiple castings of it on yourself, especially if maximised, for multiples of 20 temporary hitpoints per day. A permanent rune of Enervation would be very expensive, but gives you -- with five minutes of pressing the rune, which the lich guy might well do every hour or so -- 60 iterations of the spell, and thus a good 1,200 temporary hitpoints.

I don't believe THP stacks with itself.

[Telonius]

Getting DR X/(something the players don't have) can be kind of a stealth HP boost.

[ShurikVch]

Animation Mastery feat (Dragon #298): Undead you create using animate dead or the create undead spells gain maximum hit points and an additional +2 turn resistance

If Eberron stuff is OK, then how about the Bloodtouched Rite from the Player's Guide to Eberron? (It gives Cha-based hp, but must be performed while alive)

[Jack_Simth]

Minor Shapeshift, Complete Mage, page 45. Keep a 4th (or higher) level Polymorph spell ready but unused, and as an at-will swift action, you can give yourself temp HP=level. There's other options with the feat, but that's the gem. Not quite fast healing, but it pairs well with it.

[King of Nowhere]

creating an undead in a desecrated area gives +1 hp per hd, which increase to +2 if there is an unholy altar. then there is the fell energy spell feat, that makes all numerical bonuses given to undead increase by 2. so fell energy desecrated area with altar is +4 hp/hd. if you're taking average hit dice, you're already getting 60% more hit points.

then most dm would let a player reroll the hit die on a low roll. if you do that for your players, you can do that for your monsters too. in that case an undead would increase from 6.5 hp/hd to 9 hp/hd, giving 13 hit point per level.

[Segev]

While the various "created in/by..." requirements probably aren't things he fits, your Vampire Lord could reasonably maintain a desecrated altar to a dark god that infuses him with similar power. Treat him as created by/in such places as long as he spends his days in his coffin in that desecrated aura.

This will, amongst other things, yield about +4 hp/HD.

There's obviously the spell false life, but it's pretty lackluster (~20 hp if you really, really push it). The psionic power of Vigor is pretty awesome (5 hp per pp spent on it), but hard to get.

[The Kool]

As kind of everyone said, you can just give him more HP. This is one of the weak points of the game's design and I almost always give any foe that I want to last more than 1 hit max HP. If I want him to be a true boss, I'll even double or triple it, depending on the party's potential. I've even been known to stare at the sheet of a boss that was just taken down in one round, and proceed to ignore his HP field and only pretend to write down damage from then on, having him drop when I felt it was dramatically appropriate (don't tell my players!).

Other than that, consider defensive soaks like Stoneskin and Protection from Arrows. Use Temp HP liberally (it especially hurts if he stole those HP from the PCs). Shapeshifting and alternate forms can be used to great effect, consider hit and run tactics. For a vampire, for example, when low on HP just go gaseous and slide into a corner for a few rounds, then hit the party when they start to lower their guard. They've expended resources, you're back full up, and get a fresh surprise round.

[ericgrau]

Hello all, I am running an undead heavy campaign for my players. My BBEG is a vampire lord. My problem is that even with the d12 he has pitifully low hit points. I feel the problem is not being able to increase with a high CON score. Also the amulet of health doesn't help either, for obvious reasons. I have already used the toughness and improved toughness feats.
So my question to the forum is this: are there ways to increase undead npc's hp? Is there an amulet of health alternate? etc...
Thanks
Well it does have DR. Unless your players' magic weapons are already silver. They can pick up silversheen, but it takes a round to apply and only lasts an hour. That round might be spent dealing damage. The big weakness is energy damage. Do all your players have energy damage?

He gets an AC boost too, and you can add a +1 or +2 of every type to further boost it. There are also ironward diamond armor crystals in MIC that grant temporary DR/-. Also displacement armor for 50% miss chance as a swift action. Only a +1. Seems overpowered TBH. Likewise energy immunity is +2 and has immediate action activation. Heartening is a +2,000 gp shield property for 5 temp HP as an immediate action 2/day. Effectively 10 more HP. You could put it on an animated shield or a buckler.

And yeah as said you can set up a crevice for him to escape into so he can gaseous form run, fast heal and return. Drawback is that players may buff up & heal in the meantime, or try to trap him in the crevice.

[The Kool]

And yeah as said you can set up a crevice for him to escape into so he can gaseous form run, fast heal and return. Drawback is that players may buff up & heal in the meantime, or try to trap him in the crevice.

Well it's not a dead end. This is a BBEG, he has plans within plans. That crevice goes somewhere, somewhere useful. He has a backup plan there, even if it's just running away to fight again another day. Sure, the players may buff up, but they probably already have. Many buffs only last a number of rounds, so he can wait those out and return at full HP. The point is he can be in and out, never suffering any loss of resources himself, but constantly draining the party's spell slots and item uses.

[GrayDeath]

If the vampire's problem is "not enough HP", then your players are actually playing the HP game - and therefore, according to Playground wisdom, suboptimally. If such suboptimal PCs happen to be good at defeating your BBEG, that's great! Just play up his surprise that they are ignoring all his clever defenses.

And have him come back. Over and over again. To "congratulate" them on attacking his one weakness. While he attacks their many. Like levels. And allies. And will saves. And con. And... You get the idea.


With it's high stealth/perception, AC, saves, DR, immunities, etc, if they're actually hitting and dealing enough damage to drop it quickly, good for them.


Quoted for helpfulness.


Also, as someone who lieks Vampire Lords as BBEG`s myself, let me say this: If they truly manage to circumvent his at will abilities, Fast healing, DR; huge AC and Saves, they should win.

After all, he WILL come back. Again and again.

Thats the loveable thing about Vampire Lords (aside from teh Style^^).

You could also ahve him have a f ew Evil Cleric Minions that heal him up, he doesnt hav eto face the group alone (at the start^^). Or a contingency from a dominated WIzard that does similar things.

[Geddy2112]

In pathfinder they ruled that charisma mod acts as con mod for determining extra HP for the undead creature. You could also give it the toughness feat-nothing much, but it is some extra hp. A familiar that gives +3 hp as well helps.

Just say the undead rolled a 12 on every d12 hit die as well.

[RNightstalker]

I'm definitely with the max HP per HD crowd, especially if the party is optimized...for ALL monsters.
Look into anything that will give THP upon successful attacks such as spells and weapon enhancements. I also like the idea of making the lair for the BBEG be a minefield of magical traps of Harm, Inflict x, and mass varieties of said spells. If he needs a heal up or two, he can go set one off and choose to fail his save, and might hit the PC's while he's at it. Don't forget targeted Dispels for those with Truedeath crystals in their weapons.