Decoupling subclasses from their home class and having them work within other classes

[Amiel]

So, a random idea, what do you all think of decoupling subclasses from their current home classes and having them work within other classes?
Of course, some subclasses would form more of a cohesive recoupling compared to other subclasses.

For example, currently the eldritch knight is part of the fighter, but you could essentially lift out the subclass mechanics from the eldritch knight and have them be a wizard arcane tradition instead.
You'll need to modify the Eldritch Knight martial archetype to edit out the spellcasting and to edit in fighting styles, and you'll need to reconfigure the eldritch knight archetypal class features to adhere to when the wizard arcane tradition features come into their levels, but it could work pretty well. They may also need to have something similar to the bladesinger who gets extra attack at 6th level. Being part of the wizard they may lose their name to something else.

Conversely, you could have the bladesinger branch away from the wizard and become part of the fighter. They could keep their bladesong as is, and their archetype might instead come into effect at 3rd, but they'll obviously lose spells.

What do you all think?

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

I've actually seen this work, but usually still within martial types and spellcasters. For instance, the Shadow Monk archetype abilities being swapped for a fighter archetype. Or druid subclass abilities put on the Sorcerer chassis (this one was a Divine Soul with druid spells instead of cleric). Martials with martials and spellcasters with spellcasters.

I'm actually playing a druid right now that's utilizing the War Wizard subclass features, though I spent a feat to do it.

Definitely a case by case basis, but it's doable. Might lead to some balance issues, especially with multiclassing.

[Sception]

Given that subclass features dont come at the same levels and vary wildly in quantity and importance (with some classes subclass is just garnish, and in others they're major mechanical focuses), I don't think there'd be a way to do this that didn't involve almost entirely rewriting all existing classes and subclasses from the ground up.

[Amiel]

I've actually seen this work, but usually still within martial types and spellcasters. For instance, the Shadow Monk archetype abilities being swapped for a fighter archetype. Or druid subclass abilities put on the Sorcerer chassis (this one was a Divine Soul with druid spells instead of cleric). Martials with martials and spellcasters with spellcasters.

I'm actually playing a druid right now that's utilizing the War Wizard subclass features, though I spent a feat to do it.

Definitely a case by case basis, but it's doable. Might lead to some balance issues, especially with multiclassing.

That's definitely pretty cool, dude. Yeah, swapping like-martials and like-spellcasters would be the easiest fit as they essentially pursue the same overall goal. I feel even swapping martials into spellcasters and vice versa would also be doable, and it could be a case by case basis. Depending on how the features are integrated.
Say coupling the arcane trickster with the barbarian, you could have a feature whereby arcane trickster barbarian can continue to cast while raging. This is internally balanced inside the barbarian where you only benefit from Str while raging and the arcane trickster doesn't get that many spells.
As another example, I feel something like the eldritch knight going over to the paladin would also be possible, but you'll need to offer another parent mechanic as the paladin themselves get fighting styles, in this case perhaps action surge would fit as the paladin doesn't gain that many spells.

That's also pretty cool, how are you finding playing a druid utilising the war wizard chassis?

Yeah, progressing with the substitutions and replacements may offer wonky multiclassing and potential balance issues. This'll likely need more playtesting. Actually makes me want to actually come up with something concrete to present rather than just ideas on paper. Please stay tuned.

[Amiel]

Given that subclass features dont come at the same levels and vary wildly in quantity and importance (with some classes subclass is just garnish, and in others they're major mechanical focuses), I don't think there'd be a way to do this that didn't involve almost entirely rewriting all existing classes and subclasses from the ground up.

Yeah, the fit isn't too right for a fair number of subclasses but in this you'll need to have the subclasses themselves capture some of the mechanic of their parent class and gift this mechanic onto their new class. And just remod them to fit into their new class. You'll definitely need to offer this with tweaks, as otherwise the integration between different classes isn't seamless.
Some subclasses are definitely more easier to fit in with other classes than others though.

In the case of the eldritch knight coming over to the wizard, they'll likely retain only their fighting styles and lose out on their action surge, indomitable, second wind. This is to retain class balance and to give the recoupling a distinct flavor apart from what they were originally.

[Bjarkmundur]

If you're thinking about doing it for a single player character, then go for it. Everything can be balanced on a case-by-case basis, with some playtesting.

If you're gonna create an entire optional rule setwith all the various adjustments needed to make this work, I think you're better of using your time for something else.

Making homebrewed rules that work all the time for everyone is a huge deal, and you usually end up with a single problematic interaction that ruins the whole thing :/

[Chronos]

I'm not sure what the OP is talking about, but it's not subclasses. If you port the Eldritch Knight subclass abilities over to Wizard, what you get is... a wizard with spellcasting. You wouldn't get a wizard with fighting styles or extra attack, because those aren't Eldritch Knight abilities.

I think this is instead about taking some unspecified assortment of abilities from one base class, and using them to make a subclass for a different class. Which can of course be done (that's more or less what a lot of subclasses already are), but then this thread just becomes "what new subclasses can we homebrew from scratch?".

[JakOfAllTirades]

There was an Unearthed Arcana in which they tried to shoehorn Cleric Domains into the Wizard class. The results were rather odd.