Help me make Vadalis relevant

[Mjolnirbear]

Hello!

I run Eberron games. I've got a handle on what the dragonmark houses do. My problem is that House Vadalis is largely irrelevant in 5th edition, because (like Cannith and the lack of magic economy) one typically cannot buy hippogriff eggs or owlbear cubs.

For Cannith, I made common and uncommon magic items available for purchase, and added AngryGM's crafting ideas to 5e's crafting rules. I'm still undecided about changing the timeframes needed for crafting, but if worse comes to worse I can add a crafting feat a la 2019 Artificer.

But for Vadalis, I've no earthly clue. If a noble can ride his gryphon from the Skyway to Upper Menthis, why can't an adventurer buy one? Vadalis has as many enclaves as any other House, I'd imagine, so how do I incorporate it?

Of course, that's a price problem. If I have to I can make something up. But I also need to solve issues to animal training and companion rules.

Has anyone tackled anything like this?

[Tetrasodium]

Hello!

I run Eberron games. I've got a handle on what the dragonmark houses do. My problem is that House Vadalis is largely irrelevant in 5th edition, because (like Cannith and the lack of magic economy) one typically cannot buy hippogriff eggs or owlbear cubs.

For Cannith, I made common and uncommon magic items available for purchase, and added AngryGM's crafting ideas to 5e's crafting rules. I'm still undecided about changing the timeframes needed for crafting, but if worse comes to worse I can add a crafting feat a la 2019 Artificer.

But for Vadalis, I've no earthly clue. If a noble can ride his gryphon from the Skyway to Upper Menthis, why can't an adventurer buy one? Vadalis has as many enclaves as any other House, I'd imagine, so how do I incorporate it?

Of course, that's a price problem. If I have to I can make something up. But I also need to solve issues to animal training and companion rules.

Has anyone tackled anything like this?

It's definitely tough. Back in 3.5 you could give your mount feat(s) if it was magebred, but there are no mount feats and the value of mounts in 5e is somewhat questionable too. Perhaps...
A magebred horse with a spiky hedgehog like mane that a barbarian can brush to maintain rage
A magebred bat that gives the owner the bat's blindsense while they are in contact
A magebred leech that reduces maxhp by 1 but grants immune to poison
I'm out of ideas other than magebred macguffins

[Steel Mirror]

Vadalis could offer a number of fine magebred options, with some that are practical for adventuring and others that are more useful in specialized tasks or as expensive status symbols. Just going from the MM:

Magebred Basilisks (egg 300 GP, trained adult 2,500 gp): Perfect for defending your vault or private prison! All magebred Basilisks are trained to respond to a specific password to allow you and your staff to pass safely, but uninvited visitors are sure to get a nasty surprise! (Breeder's note: be sure not to deploy basilisks in areas with still bodies of water or large reflective surfaces)

Magebred Griffon (egg 1,000 gp, training extra): The ultimate mount that says "I can afford to spend more on my horse than you do on your mansion". Griffons bond with a single rider for life, so while an adventurer could purchase one, it might take several years of game-time to raise it from an egg so that it's ready to accompany them in an adventure. For some games with certain downtime rules that might be doable, others not so much.

Magebred Pseudoragon (egg 1,200 gp): An incredible status symbol for anyone with taste and a tolerance for cleaning dragon droppings off the upholstery, but these colorful and mesmerizing creatures reach their fullest potential when raised by a mage as a familiar. Vadalis magebred pseudodragons can be familiars, casting the find familiar spell while holding a willing creature in your arms is enough to make them function as such.

Magebred Swarm of Quippers (300 gp): Beautiful, exotic pets to complement any noble's entertaining chamber when placed behind Cannith-forged aquarium glass. Also, you can feed your incompetent minions to them when you need to make a point, or lower any meddlesome do-gooders into them with an unnecessarily slow dipping mechanism (sold separately).

Magebred Hourglass Spiders (25 gp): Keeping these beautiful creatures isn't the sort of thing you can brag about to all your friends, and it's not for the kind of person who often forgets to close doors behind them. For the...enthusiast, however, the rewards are worth the work. By making a DC 15 Animal Handling check, one can harvest enough venom from an hourglass spider for a single dose of DC 13 (2d4 poison damage) poison. A failure on the check results in the Spider making a single attack roll on the person doing the harvesting.

Magebred Mammoth (250 gp): Magebred mammoths are not as massive as those found in the wild, and they have been selectively bred to lack tusks and so have no gore attack. However, they have more docile temperaments which makes them perfectly suited for heavy, repetitive work that would break the back of even a powerful draft horse.

Magebred Giant Wallclimber (egg 400 gp, trained adult 900 gp): A giant lizard with the Spider Climb ability, essentially a huge gecko that can be ridden. Originally used as pack animals and mounts by Brelish troops in certain tricky mountain passes, since adopted by many military forces in similar areas and recently by merchants and adventurers who frequent areas with otherwise impassable terrain.

Magebred Fire Beetles (5 gp): Kept in a bottle, these beetles need only be fed crickets and they will provide light at night or in dark places. Keep several in a bottle, and they will even breed to replace themselves. If left with holes, moths and other insects will flock to the beetles on their own accord, keeping them happily fed. Used in some noble estates for otherwordly, exotic lighting for gardens and other outdoor places.

And so on! If you want to go with Vadalis as being a bit more mad-sciencey in their animal mashups, you could read up on the Simic combine and the kind of things they do for fun in the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica. They have stuff like Sharktocrabs and Lizard Wizards running around, so if you wanted a bit more Dr. Moreau to your Vadalis that might be a good place to get some inspiration.

[Unoriginal]

Why can't you buy hypogrifs and owlbears?

[Vogie]

You can simply say they are allowed, are able to be sold, but of limited access due to reasons, which drove the price up to something that seems absurd. This could include:

a Terrorist cell slaughtered the last litter/crop, so there's a lack of supply
A rich noble has started a Monte-Carlo-esque hippogryph race that is all the rage in an area, increasing demand
A recent outbreak of disease is effecting the animals, and they are quarantined. However, aftermarket transactions between owners are a thing


You could also split the difference between Vadalis and Cannith and have the house create & provide magic items that act in the same way as the feats and training of said animals. Amulets, rings, rods, et cetera, that are not sold in & of themselves, but are tied to the control/training of a specific animal via Vadalis' secret magebreeding, and thus accompany the sale of the animal or beast. Those with the Vadalis dragonmark have a sort of "universal key" for their brand of animals in the case of a broken controller.

I'd use the existing animal companion/bond rules from the UA Ranger, and maybe expand it to follow the ASI options as though the companion was a PC, using feats & invocations as a model.


If you want to go with Vadalis as being a bit more mad-sciencey in their animal mashups, you could read up on the Simic combine and the kind of things they do for fun in the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica. They have stuff like Sharktocrabs and Lizard Wizards running around, so if you wanted a bit more Dr. Moreau to your Vadalis that might be a good place to get some inspiration.

Also brilliant

[Mjolnirbear]

Why can't you buy hypogrifs and owlbears?

Um, well, I guess because I have no idea how to price them? Lol

Treating them like magic items could work. I could then set a rarity which provides a cost. I could make flying creatures more expensive due to their increased popularity and versatility.

Then...the Vadalis enclave would probably have a normal stable in lower Sharn, and maybe a special stable closer to the rich people who would buy them? Or maybe a kind of zoo. Like a petting zoo. Need lots of land, viewable by the poor and buy able inhabitants for the rich.

And any creature I don't want to allow has the simple excuse of "needs to be trained from birth by the owner".

[Unoriginal]

Um, well, I guess because I have no idea how to price them? Lol

Treating them like magic items could work. I could then set a rarity which provides a cost. I could make flying creatures more expensive due to their increased popularity and versatility.

Unless I'm mistaken, a War horse is worth 50gp, aka the normal price of a consumable Common magic item. So yeah, you could say that an Hippogriff is in the 150-300 range, for example.



Then...the Vadalis enclave would probably have a normal stable in lower Sharn, and maybe a special stable closer to the rich people who would buy them? Or maybe a kind of zoo. Like a petting zoo. Need lots of land, viewable by the poor and buy able inhabitants for the rich.

And any creature I don't want to allow has the simple excuse of "needs to be trained from birth by the owner".

Well, it seems like you've figured out how to make Vadalis relevant.

[JackPhoenix]

Why can't you buy hypogrifs and owlbears?

Because there's no price listed for them anywhere, which means there's absolutely no way to but them. Apparently.

What I've used in one of my past games were magebred miniaturized ankhegs. As with their bigger cousins, their burrowing is good for the soil, they hunt vermin, and they are small and weak enough to be harmless. Well, at least until Lammania got coterminous and somehow reversed the "miniaturized" part...

Another was magebred dog. It didn't have any superpowers, it was just a very good dog. Good girl, too.


Unless I'm mistaken, a War horse is worth 50gp, aka the normal price of a consumable Common magic item. So yeah, you could say that an Hippogriff is in the 150-300 range, for example.

You are mistaken. Warhorse is 400 gp. Amusingly, that's twice as much as elephant.

[Mjolnirbear]

Unless I'm mistaken, a War horse is worth 50gp, aka the normal price of a consumable Common magic item. So yeah, you could say that an Hippogriff is in the 150-300 range, for example.



Well, it seems like you've figured out how to make Vadalis relevant.

I'm crap at coming up with stuff. Easier to ping ideas off of people, and Vogie's comment gave the right push.

PS, a War horse is 400gp Hehe. So not a point-for-point equivalence, but at least something to start with.