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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class Paladin, for reals this time



ShiningStarling
2019-03-03, 10:27 PM
So... the Paladin has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. For one thing, an avatar of all things holy should be NG, should it not? and not having it be for other alignments is just silly. The Code of Conduct is a mess, always has been, PF only took 1 step towards improving that bit, though Mercies were a fine idea I suppose. All in all, I just find them to be a thematic mess with poorly realized fantasy far too narrow to be of any real use. I tried to fix the paladin before, but well... there's a reason its hidden in my sig rather than on display. Here's my new take, for keepsies this time, something I can be proud of.



The Paladin

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRP96hgjleG2OEu7M098vZBBjKcAyVPM LX3GA_xqBeAvQtrBDHj
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“Even if a tamed wolf makes a good sheepdog, he will never understand how the sheep feel....You are most fortunate. For having been, as you thought, a coward, and helpless to fight - you know what that is like. You know what bitterness that feeling breeds - you know in your own heart what kind of evil it brings. And so you are most fit to fight it where it occurs.”

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
:BAB +4
:Heal 5 ranks
:Must receive a Calling from a god

The Calling
Paladins must be chosen by a god. Typical paladins are chosen by a militant deity, one with War as a domain, but paladins of other deities are still common enough to note. When an individual proves worthy of being a Paladin, the god choosing so instills a feeling in the heart of the candidate, known as the Calling. This feeling is strongly associated with the Domain that deity thinks the person would best exemplify, protect, inspire, or otherwise be a positive influence upon. Occasionally gods will instill a particular destination in the heart of a paladin, telling them indirectly where they could do their deeds most effectively, but this is not a constant state of being for the Paladin, most times they are simply left to their own devices. The Calling can be ignored, and doing so for long enough may result in the god revoking it, resulting in a loss of all Paladin levels immediately, regainable only by returning to the god's favour.

Class Skills
The Paladin's class skills are any class skills they had for other classes before becoming a Paladin. Perception and Sense Motive are always class skills for the Paladin.
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

Hit Dice: d10



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st

+1

+1

+1

+1
Divine Senses



2nd

+2

+2

+2

+2
Smite, Domain Power



3rd

+3

+3

+3

+3
Divine Grace, Divine Touch



4th

+4

+4

+4

+4
Divine Expulsion, Domain Devotion



5th

+5

+5

+5

+5
Divine Judgement



Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Paladins are proficient in all simple weapons, all armor, and shields, but not tower shields. They are also proficient in their Deity's favored weapon.

Divine Senses: A Paladin's primary gift is an intuitive understanding of when something is off. Whenever the paladin is within 30 ft. of a creature (intelligent, possessed, etc.), object (intelligent, possessed, etc.), or area (Hallowed, Planar, etc.) of an alignment diametrically opposed to them (or one of the extremes if True Neutral), they are notified that something feels wrong. If they concentrate on finding the source, they can locate it in 1 minute, during which they can still perform other activities. A Paladin is also immediately notified of any direct servant (cleric, paladin, priest, or outsider) of an opposing Deity, or cleric or paladin of an opposed domain (e.g. a Protection Paladin would be notified of a Death Paladin, a Demon, or a Cleric with the Destruction Domain). In this case, no concentration is needed, this information is known instinctively and immediately.

Smite: At 2nd level, a Paladin gains the ability to Smite those who oppose them. The target of a smite must be a creature or object which is a threat to the paladin or a compatriot thereof. A Paladin may perform a Smite once per day per Paladin Level.
A smite takes a standard action to perform, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. As part of the smite, the paladin makes an attack roll, adding their paladin level to hit. If the attack hits, it deals typeless, impossible to resist damage, and deals additional damage equal to their highest attribute modifier multiplied by their paladin level.

Domain Power: At 2nd level, the Paladin gains the granted power of the Domain that acts as their Calling. Use character level in place of Cleric level for any relevant calculations.

Divine Grace: At 3rd level, the Paladin gains a measure of divine assurance in their mission. A number of times per day equal to their Paladin level, they may reroll any d20 roll that affects them, and choose the most favorable result. (e.g. the Paladin may reroll their saving throw, an enemy's attack roll against them, their own attack roll, etc. so long as it is a roll related directly to the Paladin.) This ability requires no action, and may be used when it is not the Paladin's turn.

Divine Touch: At 3rd level, the Paladin's touch can cure those they come in contact with. So long as the Paladin feels it is the right course of action, any willing creature can be a valid target for this ability. A number of times per day equal to their paladin level, they may touch their target, and either remove any one condition not named below, or cure their character level's worth of Hit Points. If the Paladin expends their full daily allotment at once, they can cure a condition that is more extreme, like a curse, petrification, or other effect with limited conditions for curing. Using this ability is a Full Round Action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

Divine Expulsion: At 4th level, the Paladin's touch becomes anathemous to those opposed to them. A number opf times per day equal to their Paladin level, the Paladin may touch a creature meeting the criteria for immediate detection by their Divine Senses to make a special Bull Rush, using their Character level in place of their BAB, and all of their ability modifiers at once in place of their Strength modifier. On a failure, nothing happens, but on success, push the opponent 5ft. per point they succeed by, dealing 1d6 damage per 10 ft. traveled. This is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Alternatively, the Paladin may use their full daily allotment at once to touch a possessed creature and attempt an opposed Charisma check to cast out the opposing force.

Domain Devotion: At 4th level, the Paladin gains the Devotion feat for the domain associated with their Calling. They have a number of daily uses equal to their Paladin level.

Divine Judgement: At 5th level, the Paladin has proved their worth many times over, and are granted a lasting boon by their god. Any Smite that would ordinarily hit is instead a critical hit, and any Smite that would ordinarily miss instead hits normally. The Paladin gains or adds 60ft. of darkvision. Their Divine Senses extend to also encompass their entire line of sight. Lastly, they may use their Divine Grace to affect their allies as well, and any roll affected by the Paladin's Divine Grace also gains a +5 or a -5, at the Paladin's discretion.



So, what do you all think? I tried to make it useful to any non-caster class of any alignment, and I think I succeeded without losing too much of what the paladin was. Obviously it's boiled down, but I wanted to make it less of a "Chosen One" and more of a "Well-Deserving One" if that makes sense.

ShiningStarling
2019-03-07, 05:29 PM
Bump, would really like some feedback :3

khadgar567
2019-03-08, 02:39 AM
so turning paladin the maid of the gods into prc. I don't know what was the idea but everyone decides to make paladin into a servant of the week so nothing to comment have fun with your pet peeve

aimlessPolymath
2019-03-08, 03:02 AM
I'll try and put some thoughts up tomorrow, but at first glance:
-First level looks pretty rough- an unreliable sensory ability
Edit: The problem is primarily that it depends on a specific alignment, when you'll often be fighting varying alignments between LE, NE, CE, TN, etc.
-Level 2 looks nice and Domains on a Paladin seems good
-Level 3 looks fine, but would hash out the specifics of whether or not the pally can cure long-term afflictions rather than leaving it up to the DM- perhaps look at Break Enchantment for wording on general-purpose problem removal
-Level 4 I love just for this line:

all of their ability modifiers at once in place of their Strength modifier.
-Level 5 is one heckuva level 5. Might tone it down a bit tbh on either the roll modification or the smite, not sure which

You get at least one very good feature every level past 1, but I would move something down a level to 1 so you get something cool when you first take the class; I personally like moving the domain down a level

Fast edit: Would like some ability to generate some kind of aura, as that's a fairly iconic paladin ability- courage or otherwise.

Some edits in bold:

Divine Touch: At 3rd level, the Paladin's touch can cure those they come in contact with. So long as the Paladin feels it is the right course of action, any willing creature can be a valid target for this ability. A number of times per day equal to their paladin level, they may touch their target a creature as a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, and either remove any one condition not named below condition with a duration less than one hour, or cure their character level's worth of Hit Points. If the Paladin expends their full daily allotment at once, they can cure a condition that is more extreme, like a curse, petrification, or other effect with limited conditions for curing as though they were using a break enchantment, heal or restoration spell with caster level equal to their character level. Using this ability is a Full Round Action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

noob
2019-03-08, 06:29 AM
I hate paladins that involve deities because there is settings where all the deities including the "good" aligned ones are so evil the average evil lich plotting world domination is a thousand times less evil than the least evil good god.(example: the forgotten realms)
Maybe you should give the option to derive power from pure will to protect or stuff like that.

Roderick_BR
2019-03-08, 08:42 PM
It's good, but I'm wary of 5 level PrCs, since they are more like a quick specialization than really Tbecoming" the class, and you put a lot of emphasis on the entry requisites. If you look at UA's Paladin prestive class, it is a 10 levels PrC for clerics, but I think it should be a PrC for fighters (as it kinda was in the originall D&D).
Just spreadt the features over 10 levels, and add spellcasting (you can copy the Black Guard's spell progression).

In fact, you could use these PrCs as a theme. Paladins for LG, BlackGuard for LE, Holy Liberator (from Masters of the Wild) for CG and see what we can find for CE.

Anachronity
2019-03-12, 10:29 PM
What are the class skills?

Divine Judgement auto-crit means all paladins wield a scythe or pick now, resulting in instakills by 9th level. (Frankly, even a x2 crit is a hecka damage that not much is liable to live through, so I guess it depends on what optimization level you're aiming for here.)

Divine Expulsion seems... odd? The exorcism part makes total sense, but the bull rush part doesn't really.

Smite itself should probably be limited to mental attributes, since it's easy to get an obnoxiously high Str even without cheese. Or just a static +4 per pally level or +2 per character level or something. I can also say from experience that Pathfinder definitely got smite evil right, whatever else it may have done wrong. So you could also just use that minus the alignment restriction, using character level for damage, and using Pally level in place of Cha mod.


The rest of it looks pretty solid.

Indigo Knight
2019-03-19, 09:32 AM
When it comes to such homebrew creations I have a hard time figuring out what I'm looking at.
See, there's already a paladin class in the books. THE core book, no less. And I have borderline dyslexic trouble at analyzing out what was replaced. Add on top of that a chunk of fluff usually added on top.

I'd much rather like to see answers to the following points:

What was wrong with the official material?
What did you change? or added?
Why did that change was done?
Have you had any game experience with the homebrew? and what did you found out?



According to your opener, Paladins mechanics falls short in representing their connection to their deity, as well as their uphold of code.
From what I can understand (with a strong chance that I misread something) - the class doesn't offer anything in regards to the latter and gives a very bland and neutral abilities that can be connected to almost any kind of person.

I'd like help understanding your design, please.

noob
2019-03-19, 01:00 PM
Also normal paladins are not worshippers of deities in any way: only evil unholy anti paladins worship deities: no deity is good enough for deserving the worship of a paladin.

ShiningStarling
2019-03-20, 07:33 PM
I'll try and put some thoughts up tomorrow, but at first glance:
-First level looks pretty rough- an unreliable sensory ability
Edit: The problem is primarily that it depends on a specific alignment, when you'll often be fighting varying alignments between LE, NE, CE, TN, etc.
-Level 2 looks nice and Domains on a Paladin seems good
-Level 3 looks fine, but would hash out the specifics of whether or not the pally can cure long-term afflictions rather than leaving it up to the DM- perhaps look at Break Enchantment for wording on general-purpose problem removal
-Level 4 I love just for this line:
-Level 5 is one heckuva level 5. Might tone it down a bit tbh on either the roll modification or the smite, not sure which

You get at least one very good feature every level past 1, but I would move something down a level to 1 so you get something cool when you first take the class; I personally like moving the domain down a level

Fast edit: Would like some ability to generate some kind of aura, as that's a fairly iconic paladin ability- courage or otherwise.


Yeah, a lot of those tweaks make sense, I'll work on that, thanks for the advice.


I hate paladins that involve deities because there is settings where all the deities including the "good" aligned ones are so evil the average evil lich plotting world domination is a thousand times less evil than the least evil good god.(example: the forgotten realms)
Maybe you should give the option to derive power from pure will to protect or stuff like that.

Not sure about that first part, but I do like that second bit, I'll get on that.


It's good, but I'm wary of 5 level PrCs, since they are more like a quick specialization than really Tbecoming" the class, and you put a lot of emphasis on the entry requisites. If you look at UA's Paladin prestive class, it is a 10 levels PrC for clerics, but I think it should be a PrC for fighters (as it kinda was in the originall D&D).
Just spreadt the features over 10 levels, and add spellcasting (you can copy the Black Guard's spell progression).

In fact, you could use these PrCs as a theme. Paladins for LG, BlackGuard for LE, Holy Liberator (from Masters of the Wild) for CG and see what we can find for CE.

The UA Paladin is a 15 level class, intended to be pursued by someone with 1 level in Fighter and 4 in Cleric based on the prerequisites, and while I do think it improves on the idea in similar ways to mine, they are still quite different ideas. I do not wish to spread it over 10 levels because being a Paladin in this sense... I don't know, it just doesn't fit for me. after I've made some of the edits that need doing we'll see.


What are the class skills?

Divine Judgement auto-crit means all paladins wield a scythe or pick now, resulting in instakills by 9th level. (Frankly, even a x2 crit is a hecka damage that not much is liable to live through, so I guess it depends on what optimization level you're aiming for here.)

Divine Expulsion seems... odd? The exorcism part makes total sense, but the bull rush part doesn't really.

Smite itself should probably be limited to mental attributes, since it's easy to get an obnoxiously high Str even without cheese. Or just a static +4 per pally level or +2 per character level or something. I can also say from experience that Pathfinder definitely got smite evil right, whatever else it may have done wrong. So you could also just use that minus the alignment restriction, using character level for damage, and using Pally level in place of Cha mod.

The rest of it looks pretty solid.

All fair points, will be considered.


When it comes to such homebrew creations I have a hard time figuring out what I'm looking at.
See, there's already a paladin class in the books. THE core book, no less. And I have borderline dyslexic trouble at analyzing out what was replaced. Add on top of that a chunk of fluff usually added on top.

I'd much rather like to see answers to the following points:

What was wrong with the official material?
What did you change? or added?
Why did that change was done?
Have you had any game experience with the homebrew? and what did you found out?


According to your opener, Paladins mechanics falls short in representing their connection to their deity, as well as their uphold of code.
From what I can understand (with a strong chance that I misread something) - the class doesn't offer anything in regards to the latter and gives a very bland and neutral abilities that can be connected to almost any kind of person.

I'd like help understanding your design, please.

Sure, I'll make such a list in the OP along with some of the incoming edits, and if you have any further questions I'll be happy to address them.


Also normal paladins are not worshippers of deities in any way: only evil unholy anti paladins worship deities: no deity is good enough for deserving the worship of a paladin.

From the Player's Handbook:

Religion: Paladins need not devote themselves to a
single deity—devotion to righteousness is enough. Those
who align themselves with particular religions prefer
Heironeous (god of valor) over all others, but some paladins
follow Pelor (the sun god). Paladins devoted to a god are
scrupulous in observing religious duties and are welcome in
every associated temple.

While I agree with some of the above that a paladin need not be inextricably tied to a god, and will make edits to that effect, Yours is more a point of opinion, and not suitable for all settings.



Thanks for the input! I will post again when the edits are made.