Barbarian/some divine class?

[Germelia]

Hi all!

I am having tremendous fun playing a barbarian in FR in a very roleplay heavy group. Our group has a very devout paladin and we were just saved from a terrible curse by divine intervention (from our paladins deity). Needless to say, this had great impact on my character, who has now pledged herself to the cause.

We are currently level 5, but I have to prepare for level 6 for the next session. I thought it would be fun to multiclass into some divine class like cleric or paladin. RAW, I can't do either, as I lack the stats. However, my DM approves if the difference is just 1 ability point. Paladin is off the table, as my cha is only 10. Cleric can still work, with Wis 12.

So my question is twofold:
- Did I miss a class option that has some divine inspiration that could work better?
- If I do decide to take a cleric level, how do I effectively combine class features/spellcasting with my rage ability?

[clash]

Best choice would be see if you can switch to zealot subclass on your barbarian instead. Failing that or if you are not interested, then there is still a certain amount of synergy.
1) You are not always raging. Initially you only get 2 or 3 rages a day that means that concentration buffs like bless work well for the times when you are not raging to give yourself an edge.
2) Healing spells are designed to be used in between combats moreso than during combat so you can be use you healing magic to shore up some hp in between fights
3) Spiritual weapon is a bonus action cast non-concentration spell that allows you to pop that round one then rage round 2 with a third attack of sorts going on.
4) Domain abilities and channel divinities work while raging if they dont involve spellcasting. Something like light clerics warding flare doesnt use wisdom mod either.

[Quoz]

A few options come to mind, all with a decent level of GM Fiat. The first would be to change barbarian subclass to Zealot. This would retroactively change your level 3 subclass feature but is otherwise the simplest choice.

Another option, depending heavily on the deity in question, would be an appropriate warlock pact. Celestial would work for most good-aligned deities, hexblade or fiend for martial deities, or Fey for more clever or magic oriented gods. You aren't necessarily making a pact with the God directly, but receiving an investiture of power from one of their high ranking underlings (maybe even the paladin in your party. He has enough pull to get divine intervention, he can probably induct you into the faith). With minimal Cha you would need to pick your spells carefully, but things like Armor of Agathys and other buffs would still work. Hex is great for fights where you aren't raging.

A cleric dip also could work well. Many of the level 1 features such as armor or weapon proficiency don't give you as much benefit, but you can probably find something to work.

If you can put it off until your next ASI, magic initiate cleric is probably the best route. Get guidance and another cantrip of your choice, and a once per day Bless of Healing Word.

[Crucius]

It's a shame your charisma is too low; paladin or divine soul sorcerer would have been a great choice!

A monk approaches want you want to express, but gives you negligible roleplay abilities. It works all right with the barbarian and some of the Ways have a religious tone to it (with some imagination).

To answer your question on how to effectively combine rage and spellcasting; the most obvious ways are non-concentration spells or picking mostly spells that have out-of-combat utility. Another way is a change in mindset: a barbarian with spellcasting is a modal character, tapping into two separate pools of resources. Estimate beforehand whether a fight needs a support spellcaster, or a brawler with damage resistance and high melee damage. Either way rage can always be dropped or instigated to shift gears.

What subclass do you currently play?

[Germelia]

I am currently in the Path of the totem warrior.

I have to read up to the path of the zealot, but I am pretty dependent on my bear totem power with all the elemental stuff going on.

[GlenSmash!]

I am currently in the Path of the totem warrior.

I have to read up to the path of the zealot, but I am pretty dependent on my bear totem power with all the elemental stuff going on.

It might be less important that you think. Zealots essentially can get resurrected for free, so when you Paladin can cast Revivify you can worry about elemental damage even less.

Even better at 14 they ignore death altogether while raging.

Bear Totem effectively gives you more hitpoints. Zealot lets you ignore hitpoints altogether.

[KorvinStarmast]

We are currently level 5, but I have to prepare for level 6 for the next session. I thought it would be fun to multiclass into some divine class like cleric or paladin. RAW, I can't do either, as I lack the stats. However, my DM approves if the difference is just 1 ability point. Paladin is off the table, as my cha is only 10. Cleric can still work, with Wis 12.

So my question is twofold:
- Did I miss a class option that has some divine inspiration that could work better?
- If I do decide to take a cleric level, how do I effectively combine class features/spellcasting with my rage ability? I have a friend who is playing a Bear Barbarian multiclassed with Druid/Circle of the Moon. Also has Great Weapon Master Feat. Effective. If your wisdom is 12, and your DM is good with it, consider Druid. The advantage to going cleric is that you'll get domain features at the first level, whereas with Druid you have to wait for another level.

[CTurbo]

A single level of War Cleric can be great for Barbarians. Taking Res(Con) would bump your Wis to 13 and is a useful feat anyway.

But yeah switching to Zealot makes sense.

[Willie the Duck]

My advice would be to do it strictly thematically, and not via multiclassing. If you have a skill that you've never ended up needing, ask if it could be swapped out for religion. At level 8, consider Magic Initiate [spells learned-Bless and two of Guidance, Light, and Thaumateurgy]. Have the barbarian start taking religion very seriously (and, if having no outside guidance, perhaps quite wrongly).

If you had a better wisdom, 2-5 levels of War domain cleric would be really useful for your character. With a 12 Wisdom, it'd be kind of a stretch (that said, there are plenty of buffing spells that don't use your casting stat all that much, so the choice is yours, but in that case, a different domain might be better).


A single level of War Cleric can be great for Barbarians. Taking Res(Con) would bump your Wis to 13 and is a useful feat anyway.
Res(Wis), I think you mean.

[GlenSmash!]

A single level of War Cleric can be great for Barbarians. Taking Res(Con) would bump your Wis to 13 and is a useful feat anyway.

But yeah switching to Zealot makes sense.

Do you mean Res(Wis)?

If you do I agree, it's a stellar barbarian feat and has saved my bacon more than once.

[zinycor]

RAW... I would say you just role play your devotion and spend your ASIs on charisma, so you multiclass into paladin. Otherwise, you could ask to change your barbarian path to zealot.

As for multiclassing into cleric, war cleric might be nice, but remember that while raging you can't cast spells or maintain concentration.

[Willie the Duck]

As for multiclassing into cleric, war cleric might be nice, but remember that while raging you can't cast spells or maintain concentration.

This is actually something I've been meaning to ask a dedicated barbarian player--what does one do when not raging? Because those combats, some spell support sounds like a perfect solution.

[No brains]

Sorry for joining the chorus of people talking about Zealot, but Zealot 3/ Cleric 5+ might allow you to pull a nifty trick:

1. Cast Glyph of Warding with Revivify in it.

2. Set the activation condition to be 'cast when my body is placed on the glyph'.

3. Don't go to far/ figure out how to get Gentle Repose on yourself.

4. Die any time you want and get raised for free! What would normally be a few hundred gp in diamonds gets waived because the spell you cast is a revival spell that affects only you.

On a more constructive note, cleric works decently well with barbarian because Spiritual Weapon doesn't need concentration. You can cast the spell before you rage and then benefit from a spell while raging. You can also cast Sanctuary on someone else and then make an enemy decide between potentially wasting their attack or taking a swing at you.

[CTurbo]

Yes sorry guys I meant Res(Wis). I'm just so used to Clerics always wanting Res(Con). Res(Wis) shores up the Barbarian's biggest weakness.


I do kind of agree that a 12-14 Wis is not high enough to really benefit as much from Cleric as you could, and I don't think you want to invest much into Wis unless you were planning on jumping over to Cleric for the remainder of the campaign which wouldn't be a terrible idea.

[Grod_The_Giant]

With 10 Cha, Warlock and Sorcerer are also out, so that's not super helpful. As for Cleric... you can use Channel Divinity and features like the War Domain's War Priest even while raging, so that's something to keep an eye out for. Otherwise, you'll ideally load up on noncombat spells and long-duration no-concentration spells like Aid and Death Ward.

You could also just change the flavor of your rage. You're not channeling the power of your totem spirit anymore, you're drawing on the power of your god.

[KorvinStarmast]

This is actually something I've been meaning to ask a dedicated barbarian player--what does one do when not raging? Because those combats, some spell support sounds like a perfect solution. Yeah, and also when not raging one doesn't use reckless attack as often.

Summons or control spells are handy if doing the druid barb thing ... you don't have unlimited Rage. You have to view it as a resource. Pick your spots.

[sambojin]

How much of a dip are you going for? Because if it's 2lvls or more, it's hard to knock back druid.

Even Shepherd druid works. You be totem'y, they do totems too. Have a bit of extra HP and be awesome at strength stuff, give people (or yourself) advantage on attack rolls with your reaction and be awesome at perception rolls, or be good at detecting creatures and pump your healing (honestly better with a 3lvl dip).

It's not proper "magic", so rage away while the rest of the party thanks you for your bonus action AoE buff. Plus, you get a bit of magic for when you're not raging.

But it's once a short rest, for a minute, and it gels well with Barb stuff. And you get a bit of scouty wildshape. Well, a lot really, probably more than you'll ever need. And some pre-fight "I'll never die" magic and basic guidance skill competency to boot.

It's not as good as Moon druid, but hey, it's still pretty good, even if you never plan on summoning anything. And nature is sort of divine. It's everywhere, in an all-pervading godly sense, and it doesn't really mind if your standard order of operations is "Yell loudly and then chop its nadgy bits off". Nature actually likes that kind of stuff :)

What kind of Pally is your friend? Like, what Oath? Because Shepherd fits into plenty of them, and you can even play off each other of your Barbarian way, compared to their "divine cause" way, while still kind of following occasionally similar tenets or beliefs. Or even make it a bit of a character/story-arc of it, with you into the fold but in your own way (you don't lose you), or the realization that the divine power spoken of does realize many paths and ways that are still totally compatible with the core beliefs that are upheld by it, and so it intervened on BOTH your behalves, in one way to bring you to it, in another to show what your friend's service is to it.

[CTurbo]

I would talk to your DM about what you can and cannot do. Ask him if you can do a one time overhaul of your character. I would allow such a thing if it was for story/rp/thematic reasons, but not for mechanical/power gaming reasons.

As a DM, I would allow you to re-stat your character, switch your level 4 ASI/feat choice, and take a different Barbarian subclass, but you would have to stick with whatever magical equipment you have now. I would not let you change races or anything. This is just me though and I don't know your DM. Path of the Zealot is the obvious direction here.

But this would allow you to go Paladin/Cleric/Druid/Bard/Ranger. Even though Paladin and Cleric are technically the only true divine classes, any of the others can be re-fluffed as such. It makes the most sense to go Paladin, but that would/could encroach on your friend's build unless you just used it as a smiting machine. Cleric makes the most sense IMO, but yeah you almost need to have at the very least a 14 Wis like right now if not 16 since you're so far away from your next ASI. Mechanically speaking, it would be "better" to be a Paladin with a low Cha than a Cleric with a low Wis. I played a Paladin with a 12 Cha and he was still a strong character. He just didn't really cast spells ever despite knowing some. I just used all his slots to smite with. A Cleric with low Wis could work but would be much harder to pull off IMO.


So yeah talk to your DM and see what your options are. Personally I love when character's take a mid game 180 due to story reasons.

[GlenSmash!]

This is actually something I've been meaning to ask a dedicated barbarian player--what does one do when not raging? Because those combats, some spell support sounds like a perfect solution.

I'm not much of a spellcaster player but utility spells can be great for a barb. I like a lot of ones on the Druid or Ranger class list.

[zinycor]

This is actually something I've been meaning to ask a dedicated barbarian player--what does one do when not raging? Because those combats, some spell support sounds like a perfect solution.

In my experience, in combat, while not really raging, the barbarian is solid enough, while not being at full power, not really a problem.

Is at outside of combat where the barbarian feels underwhelming, and totem barbarian stands out above other paths. And yeah, having utility cleric spells could give the character options to do outside of combat.

[CTurbo]

Mechanically and thematically speaking, Barbs and Rangers mix pretty well.

[Bloodcloud]

Magic initiate: cleric or ritual caster could get you a lot of flavor for a lesser cost than multiclassing.

Also, I definitely think a subclass change for roleplay reason is doable.

[thereaper]

Magic Initiate (Cure Wounds or Bless, Guidance, Thaumaturgy)

Personally, I think any sufficiently high-level Barbarian should have that feat anyway so that they have more to do outside of combat.

Another option if you've got the Wisdom is Ritual Caster (Cleric)

A one-level multiclass into Forge or War Cleric is also a nice choice.

[Vogie]

I'd choose War Cleric.

When not using rage, you can use Divine Favor to get a comparable damage boost, even if you're using a bow. Your ability to convert Wisdom ASIs into extra attacks is also useful, and the Channel Divinity can slide you into Great Weapon Master territory.

In addition, you gain Spiritual Weapon as an always-prepared spell at Cleric 3, which is one that can be kept being useful while raging.

[Willie the Duck]

I'd choose War Cleric.

When not using rage, you can use Divine Favor to get a comparable damage boost, even if you're using a bow. Your ability to convert Wisdom ASIs into extra attacks is also useful, and the Channel Divinity can slide you into Great Weapon Master territory.

In addition, you gain Spiritual Weapon as an always-prepared spell at Cleric 3, which is one that can be kept being useful while raging.

As a melee fighter, I often do dip War Cleric, both for these and for a ranged cantrip. In that situation, I tend to put my 3rd highest stat in Wisdom. The OP, starting with a 12 Wisdom, has something of an uphill climb towards making that Wisdom-bonus-#-extra-attacks and Spiritual Weapon to-hit be worth dipping out of barbarian (excepting for flavor reasons, of course).

[Ganymede]

This is actually something I've been meaning to ask a dedicated barbarian player--what does one do when not raging? Because those combats, some spell support sounds like a perfect solution.

My barbarian makes good use of her bow when not raging.

[Germelia]

Thanks everyone! You've given me a lot to think upon.

I don't doubt my DM would approve of a change of paths, however I'm hesitant to do so. Also, if I'm going cleric, I'm not sure if I want to take more cleric levels after this one. My wisdom is too low to effectively go further. Would a 1-level dip be worth it? And what about the protection domain?

[CTurbo]

Thanks everyone! You've given me a lot to think upon.

I don't doubt my DM would approve of a change of paths, however I'm hesitant to do so. Also, if I'm going cleric, I'm not sure if I want to take more cleric levels after this one. My wisdom is too low to effectively go further. Would a 1-level dip be worth it? And what about the protection domain?

I say a 1 level Protection Cleric dip would be great for you thematically. You basically get the Protection Fighting Style for free which is great and does not have anything to do with Wis score. Go for it.

[zinycor]

Thanks everyone! You've given me a lot to think upon.

I don't doubt my DM would approve of a change of paths, however I'm hesitant to do so. Also, if I'm going cleric, I'm not sure if I want to take more cleric levels after this one. My wisdom is too low to effectively go further. Would a 1-level dip be worth it? And what about the protection domain?
That seems quite solid, if the protection domain is what you like, I say go for it.

[follacchioso]

What about the tempest domain? It will give you a solid reaction that you will likely be able to activate frequently. Moreover it sounds kind of appropriate for a barbarian to worship a God of thunder.