Would an unarmed attack qualify for "dual wield"?

[Maan]

About to join a new game and thinking about a bizarre character (showy Barbarian Gnome circus strongman :P), a question popped in my mind as I was thinking what kind of tricks he could be pulling.

Let's say he fights with a weapon in one hand and the other one empty.
I guess he could attack with his empty hand as a bonus action, like he was dual wielding; he would not even need a Fighting Style or a Feat for that (surely he would not be doing much damage).
But a grapple substites one attack; so... could he use that bonus action attack to grapple, instead of just punching?
And what if someone uses something like a kick for his bonus action attack? That would not even need one empty hand.

...yeah, I know we are straying away from RAW, but I'm just trying to envision something out of the usual schemes and see if I can find something flavourful and talk my DM into allowing it. After all a Gnome as a Barbarian isn't the most poweful choice for a build, even though the resistances to magic are pretty useful as a defence.

[Man_Over_Game]

About to join a new game and thinking about a bizarre character (showy Barbarian Gnome circus strongman :P), a question popped in my mind as I was thinking what kind of tricks he could be pulling.

Let's say he fights with a weapon in one hand and the other one empty.
I guess he could attack with his empty hand as a bonus action, like he was dual wielding; he would not even need a Fighting Style or a Feat for that (surely he would not be doing much damage).
But a grapple substites one attack; so... could he use that bonus action attack to grapple, instead of just punching?
And what if someone uses something like a kick for his bonus action attack? That would not even need one empty hand.

...yeah, I know we are straying away from RAW, but I'm just trying to envision something out of the usual schemes and see if I can find something flavourful and talk my DM into allowing it. After all a Gnome as a Barbarian isn't the most poweful choice for a build, even though the resistances to magic are pretty useful as a defence.

There's a lot to unpack.

Dual Wielding explicitly requires light weapons in both hands, and for you to attack with your main action to attack with your bonus action using the offhand weapon. Unfortunately, fists don't count as light weapons.

To Grapple, you must spend one of the attacks you gain from your attack Action. Bonus Action attacks are not eligible to be swapped out for a grapple attempt. Grapples are not considered an attack, so even if you had two weapons and somehow were able to grapple (like if you were a snake with arms, maybe, like a Yuan-Ti?) you wouldn't be attacking with one weapon to get the eligible second weapon attack with your offhand.

Gnomes make excellent Barbarians. Barbarians' major weakness is dealing with Spells, and the Gnome helps deal with that quite easily.

For something like what you're looking for, take a look at the Tavern Brawler feat. It would allow you to make an unarmed strike with your main attack Action, then grapple someone as a Bonus Action.

For a Gnome Barbarian, I strongly suggest you consider Moon Druid. While it can be a bit complicated for newer players, there is not much that is stronger than a Barbarian Moon Druid, capable of turning into a 34 HP Bear with 2 attacks, Rage (halving non-spell damage), 16 AC, and advantage on pretty much any spell DC.

Narratively, it's also really cool. A tiny gnome transforming into the most dangerous melee bruiser you've ever seen in your life.

A level 3 Barbarian can take about 34 damage in a day. With Rage, that changes to 68 damage (assuming all of their damage was from weapons).

A level 1 Barbarian/2 Moon Druid can take 34 damage in their Wildshape form, shifting twice per short rest, meaning 68 damage before a Short Rest. With Rage, that translates to 136 damage (assuming only weapon damage). Assuming you have two fights over the entire day with a single Short Rest in between, you can take 272 over the course of an entire day, before taking damage to your humanoid form.

[Maan]

That was a very illuminating post, thank you! :)

Though I don't think I'll be going to multiclass (I like this character concept, even though it's far from optimal), but Tavern Brawler does look like something interesting for it :)

[Corpsecandle717]

There's a lot to unpack.

Dual Wielding explicitly requires light weapons in both hands, and for you to attack with your main action to attack with your bonus action using the offhand weapon. Unfortunately, fists don't count as light weapons.

To Grapple, you must spend one of the attacks you gain from your attack Action. Bonus Action attacks are not eligible to be swapped out for a grapple attempt. They also are not considered an attack, so even if you had two weapons and somehow were able to grapple (like if you were a snake with arms, maybe, like a Yuan-Ti?) you wouldn't be attacking with one weapon to get the eligible second weapon attack with your offhand.

Gnomes make excellent Barbarians. Barbarians' major weakness is dealing with Spells, and the Gnome helps deal with that quite easily.

For something like what you're looking for, take a look at the Tavern Brawler feat. It would allow you to make an unarmed strike with your main attack Action, then grapple someone as a Bonus Action.

For a Gnome Barbarian, I strongly suggest you consider Moon Druid. While it can be a bit complicated for newer players, there is not much that is stronger than a Barbarian Moon Druid, capable of turning into a 34 HP Bear with 2 attacks, Rage (halving non-spell damage), 16 AC, and advantage on pretty much any spell DC.

Narratively, it's also really cool. A tiny gnome transforming into the most dangerous melee bruiser you've ever seen in your life.

A level 3 Barbarian can take about 34 damage in a day. With Rage, that changes to 68 damage (assuming all of their damage was from weapons).

A level 1 Barbarian/2 Moon Druid can take 34 damage in their Wildshape form, shifting twice per short rest, meaning 68 damage before a Short Rest. With Rage, that translates to 136 damage (assuming only weapon damage). Assuming you have two fights over the entire day with a single Short Rest in between, you can take 272 over the course of an entire day, before taking damage to your humanoid form.

By my understanding the best AC you can get with brown bear and Rage would be AC 13 from their 10 (+0) DEX and 16(+3) CON. Rage breaks concentration so no barkskin. Are you getting the +3 from somewhere else?

That said there's probably an interesting synergy with the healing aspect of combat wildshape. Just burn your spell slots for HP since you can't cast anyway.

[Man_Over_Game]

By my understanding the best AC you can get with brown bear and Rage would be AC 13 from their 10 (+0) DEX and 16(+3) CON. Rage breaks concentration so no barkskin. Are you getting the +3 from somewhere else?

That said there's probably an interesting synergy with the healing aspect of combat wildshape. Just burn your spell slots for HP since you can't cast anyway.

Sorry, that was a mistake, I was thinking the Brown Bear had a higher Con/Dex. My bad.

[NaughtyTiger]

To Grapple, you must spend one of the attacks you gain from your attack Action. Bonus Action attacks are not eligible to be swapped out for a grapple attempt. Grapples are not considered an attack, so even if you had two weapons and somehow were able to grapple

Grapples are a special melee attack. It is not an attack with a light weapon.

[Man_Over_Game]

That was a very illuminating post, thank you! :)

Though I don't think I'll be going to multiclass (I like this character concept, even though it's far from optimal), but Tavern Brawler does look like something interesting for it :)

If you're big on grappling, you could consider a single level into Rogue. It won't disrupt your idea for the character, but rather, it'd solidify it as a bruiser who has some friends in low places.

The Expertise you get from Rogue can be placed into Athletics, virtually guaranteeing your ability to grapple. The Sneak Attack bonus can be applied to your Reckless Attacks. Dash/Disengage is great for a Barbarian who needs to improve their mobility, if you decide to take a second level into Rogue. Barbarian+Rogue is a very common synergistic combo for players who like to grapple.

Lastly, take a look at the Battlerager in the Sword Coast books. It's a Barbarian subclass that's entirely revolved around grappling enemies while wearing spiked armor.

[guachi]

If you like grappling things the spiked armor using barbarian battlerager gets a minor boost when it grapples things. The Battlerager Armor feature is a bit weak but at least it has unlimited uses per day. One of my players is one and she's having fun with it.

[sophontteks]

Rager is made for grapples, and totem barbarians still do it better. :smallannoyed:

[rlc]

Only if you have the feat and you're holding a severed hand in your hand and you count that as an unarmed strike...because it's just a hand without an arm.