PoW Gestalt Magus//Harbinger

[nmitchell890]

Having just finished a game as a tanky Awakened Blade (so fun) I am starting a new game with the same group but a different DM. The guy is fairly experienced DMing, normally running levels 5-15, but now he wants to try his hand at a gestalt game with a group of optimisers.

I enjoy melee combat and have always loved the idea of the Dimensional Agility Magus telepoofing to his target and dropping absolute nukes with Shocking Grasp but until the release of PoW and the Veiled Moon discipline I haven't really felt like investing into Dimensional Agility is a particularly worthwhile strategy. I chose Harbinger as it is Int based and has Veiled Moon as a native discipline, I haven't seen Harbinger in action but it looks strong.

With that in mind, my build is fairly simple; I'm literally going straight Harbinger up one side and straight Kensai up the other, I'm debating whether I want a one level dip into Inspired Blade Swashbuckler seen as Deadly Agility is a legal way of getting Dex to damage with a Rapier. I'm just not sure which side of the gestalt I want Inspired Blade on, atm I'm thinking the Magus side as that speeds up access to Dimensional Agility (I can pick both it and Stance of the Ether Gate at 9) but I could be swayed. Thoughts?

[Slider Eclipse]

Well first I'd have to ask which features do you want from each class? What level do you expect your Campaign to end at? I ask this because this class combo really blends together flawlessly with the Bladecaster Prestige Class from PoW. Taking that lets you continue scaling your Maneuvers and Spellcasting, Gives you back Light Armor, and effectively improves your Spell Combat to work with Manuevers in a roundabout way to really let you teleport around while casting spells.

This ultimately means you'll have 10 levels to try and get what you want from Magus/Harbinger. I'd suggest either Kensai 5/Harbinger 5 or Kensai 9/Harbinger 1 personally. You'll want Bladecaster's Arcane Assault capstone for maximum synergy. Magus 5 gets you your full Canny Defense scaling, Perfect Blade and a Bonus feat to help you meet requirements for Bladecaster, though Iaijutsu and Critical Perfection are rather nice as well making a higher dip reasonable. Harbinger gets you your Maneuvers (and remember your Magus levels count as half IL so just one level can get you some solid ones with proper planning), Dark Claim (one of the absolute best Maneuver recovery options out there), and +10ft movement for a single level dip. Further levels of Harbinger aren't nearly as nice with the only really strong feature in the remaining 4 possible levels being access to a +2 Dodge Bonus to AC/Reflex and a once per encounter Movement for a Swift Action.

Considering that, I'd recommend that unless you really want that Dodge Bonus or Iaijutsu ASAP. I'd start with 5 levels of Kensai, followed by a single level in Harbinger, Then if you have fractional BAB rules on (or take another level in either class if you don't) Go full into Bladecaster till level 16 (17 without FBAB), leaving the ultimate choice of which you'd want more of for the end of the build.

Hope this helps.

Just noticed this was for a gestalt campaign. in that case ignore most of the above. I'd still highly recommend taking Bladecaster on one side of it asap as it functions so perfectly with the concept. Starting with that one level dip in Swashbuckler seems solid as well as you'll need all the feats you can get thanks to the awkward feat requirements it has.

[Kurald Galain]

I enjoy melee combat and have always loved the idea of the Dimensional Agility Magus telepoofing to his target and dropping absolute nukes with Shocking Grasp
That's certainly effective :) Personally I prefer Bladebound to Kensai; or Hexblade for the ability to fly at level 5.


I'm debating whether I want a one level dip into Inspired Blade Swashbuckler seen as Deadly Agility is a legal way of getting Dex to damage with a Rapier.
At those levels? I wouldn't recommend a dip; just spend a feat on Weapon Finesse. You've got bonus feats, no need to delay all your class features by a level.

Also, here's the Magus guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus).

[Andreaz]

Senconding Galain's suggestion of not dipping.



You'll have to take some time considering how to pick your manoeuvres, for spell combat doesn't go well with strikes (full round actions and all), and you will use your swift on Claims about half the fight.

Choose early to focus on shocking grasp of frostbite and go to town!

Stance of the Ether Gate is kinda redundant on a Harbinger, btw, as at level 9 Omenwalk does the same thing without using up a stance.

Look up Veiled Moon Style. It comes in really late, but Veiled Moon Shunt gives you a way to spend manoeuvres on free actions to teleport enemies around, which is a great way to spend your manoeuvres while spell combating. (useful to either set up for an aoe or to just deal a bit of falling damage as the style lets you teleport people like that)

I'm iffy on the value of bladecaster, as you already have a complete martial set and dumb-easy recovery on harbinger and magus wants its spells more than those manoeuvres.

[Abzalon]

Actually a dip in swashbuckler at first might be a good idea in gestalt to gain a full bab.

Though I would put it on the harbinger side (and you have room for a second dip if you want without hurting your IL).

[Elricaltovilla]

Have you seen the Edgelord Harbinger archetype? It's available as a free download from DSP's April Augmented release a few years back. It's even more teleport focused than your basic harbinger, and might be worth using.

[The Kool]

Actually a dip in swashbuckler at first might be a good idea in gestalt to gain a full bab.

Ah, classic offsetting progression gestalt shenanigans. This is why I always rule any gestalts I have a say over as fractional progression. But then, you are playing gestalt, so maybe stupidly semantic OP loopholes are your thing? They certainly can be fun

[nmitchell890]

At those levels? I wouldn't recommend a dip; just spend a feat on Weapon Finesse. You've got bonus feats, no need to delay all your class features by a level.

You might be right. In that case, I could invest just enough Str to pick up Power Attack and wield a Katana instead, which is probably better overall than Opportune Parry and Riposte because I can two-hand a Katana.

[Elricaltovilla]

You might be right. In that case, I could invest just enough Str to pick up Power Attack and wield a Katana instead, which is probably better overall than Opportune Parry and Riposte because I can two-hand a Katana.

PoW:E has the feat Daisho Expertise, which lets you use a katana as a finesse weapon. That means it qualifies for use with Deadly Agility. Again, I urge you to look up the Edgelord Harbinger, as they love using katana.

[nmitchell890]

PoW:E has the feat Daisho Expertise, which lets you use a katana as a finesse weapon. That means it qualifies for use with Deadly Agility. Again, I urge you to look up the Edgelord Harbinger, as they love using katana.

Do you have a link for the Edgelord Harbinger?

[Elricaltovilla]

Do you have a link for the Edgelord Harbinger?

You can download it for free here (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/179672).

[Ellrin]

If you're attached to kensai, that's fine, but I'd like to point to hexcrafter not only for its early ability to fly, as Kurald already pointed out, but its synergy with Cursed Razor, another discipline available to harbingers. Many Cursed Razor maneuvers benefit from being applied to targets with the cursed condition, which other Cursed Razor maneuvers can apply, but which can also be applied by the use of spells with the [curse] descriptor for the duration of the spell; all of which (up to 6ths, anyway) you gain access to as a hexcrafter. Brand is an easy-to-use inquisitor orison with the curse descriptor that you could learn as a cantrip, using it as many times a day as you like as part of a full attack. As it lasts a day/level, you can thereafter benefit from the bonus effects of Cursed Razor maneuvers at your leisure.

[nmitchell890]

If you're attached to kensai, that's fine, but I'd like to point to hexcrafter not only for its early ability to fly, as Kurald already pointed out, but its synergy with Cursed Razor, another discipline available to harbingers. Many Cursed Razor maneuvers benefit from being applied to targets with the cursed condition, which other Cursed Razor maneuvers can apply, but which can also be applied by the use of spells with the [curse] descriptor for the duration of the spell; all of which (up to 6ths, anyway) you gain access to as a hexcrafter. Brand is an easy-to-use inquisitor orison with the curse descriptor that you could learn as a cantrip, using it as many times a day as you like as part of a full attack. As it lasts a day/level, you can thereafter benefit from the bonus effects of Cursed Razor maneuvers at your leisure.

I had considered Hexcrafter and chose Kensai for the Int synergy as they get Int to AC and Initiative where Harbinger gets half Int to attack rolls and Int to damage rolls, it makes me incredibly SAD. I wasn't aware of the synergy with Cursed Razor when I did so however, which is something to consider if I ever make a Magus//Harbinger build focused on debuffs and control. So I guess what I'm saying is that it's good, but it's not what I'm looking for in this particular build.

[Andreaz]

Note that you can tag CURSE on claims as well, with a feat.
Plus Cursed Razor is full of goodies anyway. One mid level stance basically doubles your damage dice...