How much you trust your players at table?

[Mitsu]

This is just out of curiosity.

So my question is: how much do you trust your players that they correctly monitor everything on their side?

Things like: how many slots do they have left. How much does XX spell does damage, what their spell/ability do (I don’t remember details of every spell in the game), how much arrows do they have left, how much Lay Down Hand points Paladin have left, how many Sorcerer Points were already used in combat and so on and so forth.

Myself I play with my friends for a really long time so I trust them telling me truth or at least if they were mistaken, that was no ill will, but error on their side too. We don’t check every time someone casts spell to make sure 100% that we are correct about what it does. I usually ask player if I am not sure what that spell does and I take his answer as granted to not stop game and reach to PHB or other book. If he says "I cast X spell" I don't really start to calculate how many slots he should have now. I trust he knows it.

On the other hand, if combat was fun/epic and some spell did 1/2d8 more damage than it should have did or something else- I don’t really care that much. The narrative was great and everything went according to plan.

Can it lead to some abusements from players? Sure it can but I don't really plan to suddenly start having all those things monitored by me as it would make DMing a chore for me more than it already is sometimes when mechanic gets in my way or telling story.

How about you?

[CheddarChampion]

It depends on who they are. I think most people can tell the difference between who wants to play a fun game and who wants to win, with regard to cheating.

For making mistakes, I'll monitor the new players and once I think they have a good handle on things I'll start backing off.

I DM for two groups, one veterans of the TTRPG, the other have played 7 2-hour sessions total over the course of 5 months. The veteran group just says what they're doing, if I need to roll something, and they tell me the results. The new group understands to roll a d20 to attack. I have no need to see what exactly people rolled for either group.

[Arcangel4774]

Ive had one player that i had to look over her shoulder a bit. Not due to untrustworthy-ness but due to constantly forgetting how things work. Of course i was also a player in this case but i tend to have a better memory of rules than most people i play with

[Jophiel]

I'd say we all trust one another. Sometimes someone screws up a rule but I've never thought it was more than inexperience with a new class or just getting too excited about an idea.

I do prefer people use standard array/point buy over rolling for stats since that can be done at home before we meet. Knowing they used those methods just eliminates the chances of any suspicion or hard feelings among the players and stat generation has ramifications for the entire game versus someone "giving" themselves an extra spell slot and getting away with it. It's just a big enough thing and easy enough to control that I'd rather use the control option and not worry about it.

[tieren]

I joined a new AL game this weekend, and several of the players didn't understand how their powers and class skills.

Everyone kept asking the paladins to detect the presence of evil, the mage kept casting Detect Magic everywhere (we were at first level so they should have been very limited) like it was a cantrip.

The DM was new to it and letting things slide so I didn't want to jump on the rules lawyering, but it was a bit hard to restrain myself.

[PhoenixPhyre]

With my main play group? 100%. If they screw up, it was a screw-up. We also all use an iPad app for our character sheets and roll in front of everyone, so it'd be just forgetting to mark something used.

With my student groups? I mostly trust them but keep a weather eye out for obvious things. Their errors tend to point in the wrong direction--forgetting to add things they should have or forgetting to recharge things on a rest.

[DMThac0]

I start every game, every new group with the same attitude: You have my trust until you give me a reason to suspect otherwise. I'll also use the first few sessions to create the good habits, such as proper bookkeeping of spells and ammunition.

I have had players who are forgetful and don't mark down their ammunition usage, I'll remind them. I'll have a moment where I feel a player has cast a spell or two too many, I'll say something about making sure to track spell usage. Heck, I'll even tell players when I think they're forgetting to actually use some abilities because they seem to have overlooked them. I don't go into a game thinking people are going to cheat or try to "beat the DM", instead I'll treat it as the game being so dynamic that things get overlooked.

However, I've been burned, I've had cheaters, and I've had people try to abuse my good graces. I had one player blatantly lie about a die roll, I saw the 1 on his die and he tried to convince me it was a 17. I've had players consistently cast spells when I knew that their spell slots were gone. I've had players try to convince me that their luck is so good that they can't roll under a 15, consistently, for 3 months of gaming. Those are the people I pay particularly close attention to. If they don't learn to just enjoy the game and forget about "beating the DM", "Winning D&D", or "Being the best", or whatever reason they come up with for being untrustworthy, I boot them.

[Keravath]

Generally, it doesn't seem to be necessary to monitor dice rolls. Its a role playing game and the randomness is part of the game.

On the other hand, there are some folks who will "modify" dice rolls and yes it is "cheating" but D&D is a team game so when you find folks like that they need to be encouraged to accept that whatever dice roll you get is fine, it just makes the game more fun in the long run. You win or lose as a team. It can be frustrating when you get a streak if bad rolls but hopefully things will turn around and it will be followed by a streak of good ones.

In many ways, however, 5e is much more player friendly since the number of save or die situations is significantly reduced from previous editions.

The one area where I find that you DO need to watch folks is on rules. There are a surprising number of even very experienced players that either forget or are mistaken about spells/class features etc .. and they aren't doing it on purpose.

Some examples:
- rogues can NOT use their bonus action do Dodge. Hide, dash, disengage yes.
- The monk martial arts attacks use the monk's bonus action and require the monk to take the attack action. The monk can not make a martial arts bonus action to attack AND spend a ki point to dodge in the same round since both require use of the bonus action.
- casting booming blade and making an attack roll is the Cast a Spell action and not the Attack Action .. so extra attacks like martial arts or PAM or shield bash do not trigger
- Invisibility does not make you hidden - you still need to make a stealth roll
- Stacking of advantage and disadvantage and the use of the vision rules in combat - though this is more often DM related - but basically, if you can't see your target and they can't see you then it is a straight attack roll, neither advantage nor disadvantage apply

[Theodoric]

I trust them enough not to cheat. Their mathematical skills, not so much.

[GlenSmash!]

I trust them enough not to cheat. Their mathematical skills, not so much.

This about sums it up for me too. or just knowing what their abilities do in the first place.

[Man_Over_Game]

I trust them not to intentionally cheat, but I usually have to watch them like a hawk for the first three or so sessions to make sure they're paying attention to how to play the game.


"No, you cannot cast two spells a turn due to Extra Attack".
"No, you don't add your modifier to your spell damage until much later".
"No, you cannot demand for divine intervention until much later".
"You roll with Disadvantage...because it's dark."
"How are you doing 15 damage with a cantrip?"


Sometimes, I do feel like a very complicated babysitter.

That being said, I would never expect them to break any rule if they knew what they were doing first.

[JNAProductions]

I trust them wholeheartedly.

I will double check their rules knowledge, sometimes, since I'm the best rules person at the table, but if they tell me they've got slots left, they've got slots left. If they say they rolled a 24, they rolled a 24. (Unless I have reason to suspect they forgot to add a bonus they had, in which case I'll say "Weren't you supposed to add Proficiency to that?" or something.)

Honestly, I'd say that if you're checking a player for honesty and not just memory... Why play with them? I certainly wouldn't boot them immediately, but I would have an honest discussion with them about cheating and why it's not cool. If they still cheat... They get the boot.

[Demonslayer666]

This is just out of curiosity.

So my question is: how much do you trust your players that they correctly monitor everything on their side?

Things like: how many slots do they have left. How much does XX spell does damage, what their spell/ability do (I don’t remember details of every spell in the game), how much arrows do they have left, how much Lay Down Hand points Paladin have left, how many Sorcerer Points were already used in combat and so on and so forth.

Myself I play with my friends for a really long time so I trust them telling me truth or at least if they were mistaken, that was no ill will, but error on their side too. We don’t check every time someone casts spell to make sure 100% that we are correct about what it does. I usually ask player if I am not sure what that spell does and I take his answer as granted to not stop game and reach to PHB or other book. If he says "I cast X spell" I don't really start to calculate how many slots he should have now. I trust he knows it.

On the other hand, if combat was fun/epic and some spell did 1/2d8 more damage than it should have did or something else- I don’t really care that much. The narrative was great and everything went according to plan.

Can it lead to some abusements from players? Sure it can but I don't really plan to suddenly start having all those things monitored by me as it would make DMing a chore for me more than it already is sometimes when mechanic gets in my way or telling story.

How about you?

I trust my players to maintain accurate records of their gear and abilities. They don't, but I only look into it if there is blatant abuse. I had a sorcerer casting a spell they couldn't have yet (casting a 5th, but only had 4th level spells). They are usually honest mistakes and I don't make a big deal of it during game. I go with the flow and correct it between sessions, or at the beginning of the next.

As a player, I am a stickler for keeping accurate records of my character and I loath lackadaisical, sloppy record keeping. In fact, I consider it cheating. I keep track of every detail; food, ammunition, weight carried, etc. I also apply the rules to myself without being told, like making concentration checks, or applying effects of conditions. Many of my fellow players only apply beneficial and choose to not apply detrimental effects unless they are required to by the DM.

[GlenSmash!]

I trust them not to intentionally cheat, but I usually have to watch them like a hawk for the first three or so sessions to make sure they're paying attention to how to play the game.


"No, you cannot cast two spells a turn due to Extra Attack".
"No, you don't add your modifier to your spell damage until much later".
"No, you cannot demand for divine intervention until much later".
"You roll with Disadvantage...because it's dark."
"How are you doing 15 damage with a cantrip?"


Sometimes, I do feel like a very complicated babysitter.

That being said, I would never expect them to break any rule if they knew what they were doing first.

Yup. I'm a player right now rules layering my other players. Though on the other side of the power scale.

"Why don't you take a second shoot with that bow?"
"I'm not dual wielding."
"But you have extra attack."
*blank stare*

[Pex]

Completely. There's no point to cheating. I know they don't because I hear them say "I didn't prepare that spell" or "I used it up already" or whatever thing they want to do but can't.

[Man_Over_Game]

Yup, I'm a player right now, rules layering my other players. Though on the other side of the power scale.

"Why don't you take a second shoot with that bow?"
"I'm not dual wielding."
"But you have extra attack."
*blank stare*

I just....I don't know how people don't have a firm grasp on the rules BY LEVEL FIVE.

Unless the DM is just throwing EXP into the wind, it should take like 10 session to get to level 5. Assuming you play every two weeks, that's half a year. You can read the manual over 6 months, people.

[Edgerunner]

We have a player in our Roll20 group that seems much too Well Informed.

He know exactly where to search, which rooms to avoid and floats to the back line before we enter a room where combat will ensue.

Yea some folks look up monsters they are fighting but prereading the module is outright cheating IMO. But how are you going to stop it?

[Man_Over_Game]

We have a player in our Roll20 group that seems much too Well Informed.

He know exactly where to search, which rooms to avoid and floats to the back line before we enter a room where combat will ensue.

Yea some folks look up monsters they are fighting but prereading the module is outright cheating IMO. But how are you going to stop it?

Modifying the module. Instead of having real monsters around the corner, those are illusions. Lots of illusions. But do them at about a 50/50 rate with the original module, so that the player can never get comfortable about knowing the best possible play every time.

[GlenSmash!]

I just....I don't know how people don't have a firm grasp on the rules BY LEVEL FIVE.

Unless the DM is just throwing EXP into the wind, it should take like 10 session to get to level 5. Assuming you play every two weeks, that's half a year. You can read the manual over 6 months, people.

Yeah I was asked "how do you know that?" my reply "I read the rules." Our game started in August btw. Still I doubt they read more than their character sheet.

I share the Handbooker Helper videos Critical Role puts out with my group whenever I they talk about something someone goofed up recently. I don't think anybody watches them despite how helpful they are.

To be fair this player will probably never have a firm grasp on what their character can do. Still we are having fun. And they play a Champion so it could be worse :smallwink:

[Contrast]

I joined a new AL game this weekend, and several of the players didn't understand how their powers and class skills.

Everyone kept asking the paladins to detect the presence of evil, the mage kept casting Detect Magic everywhere (we were at first level so they should have been very limited) like it was a cantrip.

The DM was new to it and letting things slide so I didn't want to jump on the rules lawyering, but it was a bit hard to restrain myself.

Detect Magic is a ritual spell and lasts 10 minutes once cast. So if you're not in a rush in game you can spam it pretty liberally.


On topic, I feel if you don't trust your players you probably shouldn't be playing with them. We once had a new player join our group who was a good friend of the DM who insisted he was comfier sitting on the arm of the sofa and rolling his dice on a book he held above everyone elses sight line. He then proceeded to crit with about half of his attacks and do almost max damage on every attack. He was not invited back and life moved on.

As others have mentioned, far more common is people not knowing the rules or just being bad at math (the number of times I hear people say a damage total or roll that couldn't possibly be correct...).

[Willie the Duck]

I trust them not to intentionally cheat, but I usually have to watch them like a hawk for the first three or so sessions to make sure they're paying attention to how to play the game.


"No, you cannot cast two spells a turn due to Extra Attack".
"No, you don't add your modifier to your spell damage until much later".
"No, you cannot demand for divine intervention until much later".
"You roll with Disadvantage...because it's dark."
"How are you doing 15 damage with a cantrip?"



The action economy is a source of trouble for our group. I actually have a recipe card with 'why do you think it is a bonus action?' written on it with a sharpie, to raise up in front of me when one player asks, "can I ____ as a bonus action?" because this whole concept seems to just not check right for him.



I just....I don't know how people don't have a firm grasp on the rules BY LEVEL FIVE.


Yeah I was asked "how do you know that?" my reply "I read the rules." Our game started in August btw. Still I doubt they read more than their character sheet.

To be fair to other people, I never learned the hiding/illumination rules correctly either through play or reading the books. Came here and saw it explained, then went back to the book and confirmed. However, I'd read the same sections and come to a conclusion with at least some errors in them.

Oh, and we completely skipped over the 'if cast a bonus action spell, other cast has to be cantrip' bit. Just plain missed it.

[JMS]

I joined a new AL game this weekend, and several of the players didn't understand how their powers and class skills.

Everyone kept asking the paladins to detect the presence of evil, the mage kept casting Detect Magic everywhere (we were at first level so they should have been very limited) like it was a cantrip.

The DM was new to it and letting things slide so I didn't want to jump on the rules lawyering, but it was a bit hard to restrain myself.
That sounds like a bunch of people who just came from PF (not that anything is wrong with that), and still need to adjust expectations.

My group? They couldn’t Rules Lawyer their way out of a paper bag. I will happily take the title of optimizer, and guide their path.

[bc56]

I've known my players for years, so I trust them pretty far. I know that if they do something wrong, it's not intentional, and I can trust them to be willing to roll with my mistakes as well.

[GlenSmash!]

To be fair to other people, I never learned the hiding/illumination rules correctly either through play or reading the books. Came here and saw it explained, then went back to the book and confirmed. However, I'd read the same sections and come to a conclusion with at least some errors in them.

Oh, and we completely skipped over the 'if cast a bonus action spell, other cast has to be cantrip' bit. Just plain missed it.

Oh yeah, I struggle with those too. That's standard DM territory as far as I'm concerned.

[Friv]

I just....I don't know how people don't have a firm grasp on the rules BY LEVEL FIVE.

Unless the DM is just throwing EXP into the wind, it should take like 10 session to get to level 5. Assuming you play every two weeks, that's half a year. You can read the manual over 6 months, people.

I've known a lot of players for whom reading the rules is both (a) very difficult, and (b) does not stick with them. They treat reading the rules like particularly rough homework, and they take a long time to process those rules, and if they switch to a new game they will invariably get the differences between games hopelessly confused. There are people who are just not good at holding procedural information. I had a player in Exalted make it 20 sessions into the game and still not be able to calculate her attack pool.

I've also known players with a bad habit of reading two-thirds of a power's description and missing a key statement or qualifier, sometimes in ways that make them think the power is much stronger and sometimes in ways that make them think the power is much weaker.

Generally speaking, I trust my players not to cheat, because the game is meant to be fun. I have known a few players who will almost never cheat, but will fudge results in situations when they just cannot bear to fail, and I generally choose to overlook it because as long as their success isn't hurting other players I would rather they have fun than we all follow the rules super-strictly.

I have had many players that I absolutely would not trust to track their character resources without someone keeping an eye on them, and others that I would not trust to know the rules to their character sheets without help. As long as they can get by with a little bit of assistance, that's usually fine by me, too.

[Sigreid]

I play 2ith the same people I've played with for about 20 years. I don't track their stuff at all.

[guachi]

I trust them enough not to cheat. Their mathematical skills, not so much.

Ayup. It's the rules and math that are the biggest issues.

I do say that I have to see every die roll. It helps me as I can generally do the math faster than the player and I can tell if a thing hits or misses. I also houserule that if a die falls on the floor the roll doesn't count. Grab another die, roll it, and then hunt for your die on the floor on the next player's turn.

But neither of those rules are because of trust.

[Mitsu]

I just....I don't know how people don't have a firm grasp on the rules BY LEVEL FIVE.

Unless the DM is just throwing EXP into the wind, it should take like 10 session to get to level 5. Assuming you play every two weeks, that's half a year. You can read the manual over 6 months, people.

Some people like my wife just want to roleplay. She loves playing RPGs, but all the rules, mechanics, rolls, dices give her headache. So I help her during sessions and with time she remember what to do "mechanically" at table, but more from experience than from reading. At first I was like "HOW CAN YOU NOT READ RULES??" but I got used to it. I also build her characters (stats and math stuff) as she has no idea how to optimize. But she is good roleplayer and great teamplayer.

Another one of my friends totally do not know English and there is no translation of 5E. So simillar to my wife he has to learn from experience at table and he often totally forget what his character can do, what new abilities he has and so on.

There are lot of strange players out there :).

[JackPhoenix]

Yeah, I'll join on the "I trust them not to cheat deliberately, but I don't trust them to get every rule right" bandwagon. Especially as some of the players play different editions (PF and 4e, these days) in different groups, and sometimes mix rulse from them. Or use differnt houserules in different games and forgot they are houserules.

[PhoenixPhyre]

For what it's worth, I don't trust myself to get every rule right. But then I don't particularly care about "rules-correctness" except where that promotes fun game time. I'd rather do what's fun rather than what's "correct."

[furby076]

If you think someone is cheating, make sure you really have good evidence before you accuse, otherwise you could cause hard feelings or lose a valued player.

I was once accused of cheating because my rolls tended to be higher than average. The dm, unbeknownst to us, had started recording everyones rolls. He didn't seem to complain about another player at the table who had unusually low rolling (like really bad...bad enough the player swapped out his artificer to a barbian because he coud never roll good enough and artificers rolled a lot).

Anyhow, he accused me of cheating in front of the table. I never hid my rolls, just did it on a mini table next to me as the coffee room table was a bit far and low to reach. He told me I had to roll on the coffee table. I was furious with him and called him out on it...then rolled 4 20's, a 19 and 18(that was insane period). After that, I told him my rolls were going back to my mini-table. if he didn't like it, he was welcome to leave my house. I never forgave him for that accusation.

[Umberhulk]

I played with a guy who always rolled into a box, and always seemed to get double digits. I sat across from him, not next to, so i never said anything. His system mastery was decent, yet there were some things he did wrong that worked out in his favor. I like to succeed too, but I’d rather go with the smart choices move the randomness in my favor.

I joined a new group recently and the DM is tracking our hit points. Funny cause we’re all single digits. Kinda hard to cheat. 😆

[Umberhulk]

If you think someone is cheating, make sure you really have good evidence before you accuse, otherwise you could cause hard feelings or lose a valued player.

I was once accused of cheating because my rolls tended to be higher than average. The dm, unbeknownst to us, had started recording everyones rolls. He didn't seem to complain about another player at the table who had unusually low rolling (like really bad...bad enough the player swapped out his artificer to a barbian because he coud never roll good enough and artificers rolled a lot).

Anyhow, he accused me of cheating in front of the table. I never hid my rolls, just did it on a mini table next to me as the coffee room table was a bit far and low to reach. He told me I had to roll on the coffee table. I was furious with him and called him out on it...then rolled 4 20's, a 19 and 18(that was insane period). After that, I told him my rolls were going back to my mini-table. if he didn't like it, he was welcome to leave my house. I never forgave him for that accusation.

That’s dice with rounded edges for ya. It makes them pretty but also makes them less random. It’s why some are “lucky” and some are not.

[GreyBlack]

As far as I can throw them. That said, as long as it doesn't break suspension of disbelief or someone doesn't do the whole "I rolled 3 natural 20s in a row!" thing, I generally let it slide.

[Cynthaer]

I'm 28, and I play with other adults when I play. As a result, I expect that we're all mature enough not to cheat.

More importantly, we're all on the same page about what kind of game we're playing and why. Other approaches are perfectly valid, but my approach is very rooted in "collaborative storytelling"—we're all here to have fun and build a story together, so if we're doing our respective jobs, a bad roll should be just as interesting as a good roll. And if a bad roll is as interesting as a good roll, what's the incentive to cheat?

Now, if I were playing with younger players, then I'd definitely take measures like rolling in the open to eliminate the temptation, as well as trying to bring my players into a similar mindset to reduce the desire to cheat.

That's not a slam against young people; it's simply a fact that dealing with things not going quite how you want is a skill that everyone has to learn over time. I expect adults to have mastered it, and I expect children/teens to be able to use D&D to learn it.

[Amdy_vill]

This is just out of curiosity.

So my question is: how much do you trust your players that they correctly monitor everything on their side?

Things like: how many slots do they have left. How much does XX spell does damage, what their spell/ability do (I don’t remember details of every spell in the game), how much arrows do they have left, how much Lay Down Hand points Paladin have left, how many Sorcerer Points were already used in combat and so on and so forth.

Myself I play with my friends for a really long time so I trust them telling me truth or at least if they were mistaken, that was no ill will, but error on their side too. We don’t check every time someone casts spell to make sure 100% that we are correct about what it does. I usually ask player if I am not sure what that spell does and I take his answer as granted to not stop game and reach to PHB or other book. If he says "I cast X spell" I don't really start to calculate how many slots he should have now. I trust he knows it.

On the other hand, if combat was fun/epic and some spell did 1/2d8 more damage than it should have did or something else- I don’t really care that much. The narrative was great and everything went according to plan.

Can it lead to some abusements from players? Sure it can but I don't really plan to suddenly start having all those things monitored by me as it would make DMing a chore for me more than it already is sometimes when mechanic gets in my way or telling story.

How about you?

I have a few experienced player who i trust a lot but most of my player have to have me look up there spell as they are so new

[PhoenixPhyre]

I have a few experienced player who i trust a lot but most of my player have to have me look up there spell as they are so new

I separate the "do I trust you" from "do you know the mechanics." I trust my players. But many/most of them don't know the mechanics (or even own the books) because I run an after-school club. Heck, most of them don't even take their character sheets with them. So I do a lot of sanity checking on mechanics, but I trust that they're rolling and counting right once they know what to roll.

I always do everything in the open--I dislike screens, mainly because they take up precious space and make it hard for me to get at the map (which is usually a whiteboard placed horizontal on the table).

[Laserlight]

I just....I don't know how people don't have a firm grasp on the rules BY LEVEL FIVE.

Unless the DM is just throwing EXP into the wind, it should take like 10 session to get to level 5. Assuming you play every two weeks, that's half a year. You can read the manual over 6 months, people.

At least one player was at our table for a couple years and never got a firm grasp of the rules. He was okay with the basics, but he'd get flustered when we told him he couldn't cast two spells at once; he'd forget to add proficiency; and he was occasionally baffled that the action economy wouldn't let him slide down a rope, kill a guy, find and detach a magic item from the corpse, equip the item, then move, open a door and cast a spell, all in one turn. He was quite smart, but just didn't grok the rules.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I have two cheaters. Hardcore. One in particular cheats so blatantly and consistently that I actually don't record the 'damage' he does half the time, and I don't bother throwing save effects at him. He'll just lie about the results anyway. Seriously- if he's to be believed, he hasn't failed a saving throw at a table since like 2006 and never rolls far outside of his maximum possible damage on anything. He also just happens to get a lucky critical hit on his first attack against every single boss or dangerous opponent he's ever faced. Possibly multiple in a round, and definitely multiple if it continues into more rounds. And let's not forget all the times that he took a serious beating and just barely managed to hang on with exactly 1 HP. This is why he hates online rolling, he can't cheat his numbers.

I tried having the adult conversation a few times in the past. It devolved into a bunch of nuh-uhs and shouting. More than a little gaslighting, too, about what I did and didn't see. Now the whole table 'prefers' rolling their dice completely out of sight in little boxes, and I can't convince them to stop doing this. Yes, I'm supremely frustrated. A few times I rolled out in the open myself just to force them to do it. They whine, but then say they're the most fun games. No one seems to learn anything.

The other cheater only does it on occasion, usually when he's scared because I put the screws to him in combat. More often than not, though, he's just not recording crap and giving himself way too much slack. He corrects the cheating when he's caught, though. Annoying that he keeps trying, but eh. I've still got the other guy.

Another player is serially unlucky, so I definitely trust him. Another seems to have pretty great luck, but she rolls openly enough that I know those aren't faked.

Our revolving cast of other players seem to play legit. No complaints there.

[JNAProductions]

For the cheaters, I just wouldn't play with them.

The sometimes cheater, maybe. But the hardcore one? Just boot him.

[Man_Over_Game]

I have two cheaters. Hardcore. One in particular cheats so blatantly and consistently that I actually don't record the 'damage' he does half the time, and I don't bother throwing save effects at him. He'll just lie about the results anyway. Seriously- if he's to be believed, he hasn't failed a saving throw at a table since like 2006 and never rolls far outside of his maximum possible damage on anything. He also just happens to get a lucky critical hit on his first attack against every single boss or dangerous opponent he's ever faced. Possibly multiple in a round, and definitely multiple if it continues into more rounds. And let's not forget all the times that he took a serious beating and just barely managed to hang on with exactly 1 HP. This is why he hates online rolling, he can't cheat his numbers.

I tried having the adult conversation a few times in the past. It devolved into a bunch of nuh-uhs and shouting. More than a little gaslighting, too, about what I did and didn't see. Now the whole table 'prefers' rolling their dice completely out of sight in little boxes, and I can't convince them to stop doing this. Yes, I'm supremely frustrated. A few times I rolled out in the open myself just to force them to do it. They whine, but then say they're the most fun games. No one seems to learn anything.

The other cheater only does it on occasion, usually when he's scared because I put the screws to him in combat. More often than not, though, he's just not recording crap and giving himself way too much slack. He corrects the cheating when he's caught, though. Annoying that he keeps trying, but eh. I've still got the other guy.

Another player is serially unlucky, so I definitely trust him. Another seems to have pretty great luck, but she rolls openly enough that I know those aren't faked.

Our revolving cast of other players seem to play legit. No complaints there.

Have you considered some kind of electronic dice rolling method? Having a list of rolls to track would help mitigate the cheating, whether it be by dice or by lies.

If someone's stats are being fudged, I'd have the guy list off the bonuses for me each roll until he gets his act together.

[Waterdeep Merch]

For the cheaters, I just wouldn't play with them.

The sometimes cheater, maybe. But the hardcore one? Just boot him.
I'd give anyone the same advice. But we're talking about my best friend, roommate, and usually the one responsible for helping to organize and pump up the other players. Part of the reason I have such an insane waiting list of people to play my games is because of how he sells them. You'd think I was some kind of genie.

[Knaight]

I trust every player I have ever had not to cheat, including the two six year olds I ran a game for when I was 14* - and I mean that trust extends back to when they were six. I'll also generally trust total strangers not to cheat, and I don't take any counter measures against cheating, including doing things like just having everyone roll their own physical dice in the handful of online games I've run.

Knowing the rules is a different matter, though if I got sucked into D&D in particular I can safely assume my players do. Otherwise there's a good chance they don't, which is fine - I run a bunch of one shots, we do a lot of different systems, this absolutely isn't the veteran player who still hasn't learned the rules scenario.

*Obviously this wouldn't have been in 5e, as it wasn't out yet. That said this really doesn't seem like a system specific thread. I guess you need to have randomizers or tracked resources, but the games structured such that cheating would be totally impossible are very rare.

[MoiMagnus]

Among the multiple tables I've played with:

+ Players are trusted not to blatantly cheat.
+ When we play heavily technical games, a lot of errors are done, and most players tend to be much more willing to backtrack errors that penalize them than errors that favor them. (Hence some "convenient addition errors" are probably not backtrack). However, we trust each other to be fully honest on important issues (like decisive turn of the fight). In fact, backtracking of key moments due to an error, both in favor or defavor of the group, is reasonably common (roughly once every other month).
+ Since we play quite frequently homebrew games. Everyone is frequently checking relative power-balance of each character, not because of trust issues between players, but more because we don't trust our homebrew system to be balanced at all, and we want to fix it.
+ Statistical anomaly are a subject of joking. One player makes stats about all her rolls because she think she is "cursed". I'm personally known for rolling extremely frequently outside of 5-15 (I've done the triple 19-20 in a row and the triple 1-2 in a row multiple times).

[Gryndle]

how much do I trust my players? With my life, two of them literally at different points in time.

as for game stuff, the only issues we have are with "book keeping" and reading the fine print on his spells of class abilities. One of the guys is kinda sloppy about that, while typically being drawn to characters that require the most. Its not egregious, but does come up with some regularity.

[furby076]

That’s dice with rounded edges for ya. It makes them pretty but also makes them less random. It’s why some are “lucky” and some are not.

The one guy at my table, who always rolled low, got the exact same dice as me once (same color, i was pissed cause Ididn't want his bad luck). Man, that night i rolled terribly. Told him to keep his voodoo dice at home.

Never heard of the rounded edges thing. My dice are not sharp edges (like standard d6 found in casinos). But why would it matter? As long as all the curves are the same, how does it favor the higher numbers?

[MoiMagnus]

The one guy at my table, who always rolled low, got the exact same dice as me once (same color, i was pissed cause Ididn't want his bad luck). Man, that night i rolled terribly. Told him to keep his voodoo dice at home.

Never heard of the rounded edges thing. My dice are not sharp edges (like standard d6 found in casinos). But why would it matter? As long as all the curves are the same, how does it favor the higher numbers?

If a die has rounded edges AND assymmetric weight, then it might prefer some faces over some other (more than a die with straight edges and assymmetric weight)

However, I think he was referring to the case where the edges have different curves for each face.

[Knaight]

If a die has rounded edges AND assymmetric weight, then it might prefer some faces over some other (more than a die with straight edges and assymmetric weight)

However, I think he was referring to the case where the edges have different curves for each face.

You tend to get both. It's not exactly uncommon to polish dice in a rock tumbler, and even Gamescience dice tend not to hit casino levels of precision. Others are a bit all over the place.

[Sigreid]

Since my group has to play over the internet we use Fantasy Grounds. Everyone sees all the rolls and modifiers and when I DM I can see every character whenever I want. That said, I dont check up on them at all. If I thought they were a bunch of cheaters I wouldn't play with them.

[xroads]

This is just out of curiosity.

So my question is: how much do you trust your players that they correctly monitor everything on their side?


I've gamed with my current group for over a decade now. So I've a lot of trust in them.

But putting that all aside, I'll usually error on the side of trust anyways. Frankly, the game stops being fun if I have to police player's rolls. If I do have to start doing that, then I'd just as soon stop running and start playing my X-Box. :smallwink:

[nickl_2000]

If my group didn't trust me and my rolls after the last session, they never will. I'm pretty sure I had 1 good roll for the entire night. My PC was poisoned, diseased, beaten to a bloody pulp, and failed pretty much every saving throw I rolled (including the Wisdom ones that are a +11).