“Generic” sorcerer

[stewstew5]

Most classes with subclasses in the game have a ‘generic’ subclass, that is, an option most in line with the class features, common idea of said class, or most similar to previous incarnations of said class. Devotion paladin, Fiend warlock and Open Hand monk are all great examples of this, but there isn’t really one for sorcerer? Why is this?

[Man_Over_Game]

Most classes with subclasses in the game have a ‘generic’ subclass, that is, an option most in line with the class features, common idea of said class, or most similar to previous incarnations of said class. Devotion paladin, Fiend warlock and Open Hand monk are all great examples of this, but there isn’t really one for sorcerer? Why is this?

The Sorcerer is mostly defined by the class features, Metamagic and Sorcery Points. Note how pretty much every Sorcerer subclass feature requires use of the Sorcerer's magic to actually use. Compare that to something like the Bladesinger, or the Moon Druid, who are defined by their subclasses. Every Sorcerer is the "generic" Sorcerer.

But if you want to go with the most generic, Draconic is a pretty solid bet. A bunch of passive abilities and incentives to specialize into a specific playstyle, but not enough incentives to make excluding other options a good idea. You can also choose various different options to specialize in, which all have differences in playstyle (Cold being Control, Lightning being damage, Fire being Area of Effect). Rather, it's a generic way of choosing a specialization that doesn't tie you down, which is exactly what every other Sorcerer Subclass does.

[Misterwhisper]

Most classes with subclasses in the game have a ‘generic’ subclass, that is, an option most in line with the class features, common idea of said class, or most similar to previous incarnations of said class. Devotion paladin, Fiend warlock and Open Hand monk are all great examples of this, but there isn’t really one for sorcerer? Why is this?

Probably because they always want their to be an outside source of the sorcerer powers.

I would like a nice generic sorcerer subclass.

Maybe one that just makes some of your SP spending a little cheaper or gives a bonus metamagic.

[stewstew5]

Maybe one that just makes some of your SP spending a little cheaper or gives a bonus metamagic.

Exactly. Something that builds off the class features without adding a whole bunch of extra stuff

[sophontteks]

Draconic is the generic pick. Its always good and gives them a better AC plus more damage, yet its not very interesting outside that.

[Ganymede]

I REALLY don't get how the Devotion paladin, Fiend warlock and Open Hand monk are "generic."

[Kane0]

Maybe it was more along the lines of 'default', fluff speaking. Dragon sorcery sounds like the default to me.

[Ganryu]

I REALLY don't get how the Devotion paladin, Fiend warlock and Open Hand monk are "generic."

They are most people's first thoughts of the class.

Paladin, good guys, devout. So devotion paladin.

Monks are defined heavily with flurry of blows, Open hand deals with that, and is one the first classes.

Warlocks, you made a deal with devil, so a deal with a literal devil.

They seem to make sense to me.

[Vogie]

My favorite "Generic" Sorcerer is actually the Pyromancer bloodline from Plane Shift:Kaladesh.

You then receate it with every other damage type. Think of it as the "Elemental Adept" Bloodline.

[stewstew5]

They are most people's first thoughts of the class.

Paladin, good guys, devout. So devotion paladin.

Monks are defined heavily with flurry of blows, Open hand deals with that, and is one the first classes.

Warlocks, you made a deal with devil, so a deal with a literal devil.

They seem to make sense to me.

This guy gets it

[stewstew5]

Maybe it was more along the lines of 'default', fluff speaking. Dragon sorcery sounds like the default to me.

That seems to be the consensus. I’ll look more into it

[Dr. Cliché]

Draconic is the generic pick. Its always good and gives them a better AC plus more damage, yet its not very interesting outside that.

To my mind, the Storm Sorcerer seems closer to a generic sorcerer than the Draconic one.

[sophontteks]

To my mind, the Storm Sorcerer seems closer to a generic sorcerer than the Draconic one.
Storm sorcerers are so niche they don't even work as a pure class. All their abilities depend on close combat, yet they have no means of mitigating damage. They only work as paladin multiclass, or tempest cleric multiclass.

The conditional ribbons that make up a storm sorcerer are not as good as the generic staples of a draconic sorcerer, who just plain has more AC and does more damage. Boring, but strong. Qualities of a generic pick.

[Dr. Cliché]

Storm sorcerers are so niche they don't even work as a pure class. All their abilities depend on close combat, yet they have no means of mitigating damage. They only work as paladin multiclass, or tempest cleric multiclass.

The conditional ribbons that make up a storm sorcerer are not as good as the generic staples of a draconic sorcerer, who just plain has more AC and does more damage. Boring, but strong. Qualities of a generic pick.

Everything you've said here relates to the *power* of the class, which is utterly irrelevant to the discussion.

I'm not saying that the Storm Sorcerer is better than the Draconic Sorcerer, or even that it's a good subclass. Merely that it seems far closer to a 'generic' sorcerer than the Draconic Sorcerer.

[Zalabim]

It's not the most sorcerer-y sorcerer, but I think Divine Soul is the most generic magic user. It's the kind of selection of abilities that you see in all-in-one mages that are less D&D inspired.

I also think Storm Sorcerer works fine as a pure class, at least as well as any sorcerer does. It's a skirmisher. It can dart in and out of melee and punish attackers. Adding more AC wouldn't make it perform better, though adding more HP would.

[Waazraath]

They are most people's first thoughts of the class.

Paladin, good guys, devout. So devotion paladin.

Monks are defined heavily with flurry of blows, Open hand deals with that, and is one the first classes.

Warlocks, you made a deal with devil, so a deal with a literal devil.

They seem to make sense to me.


I'd say draconic. All of the above are default, because they were in earlier editions / lore. Sorcerers are around from 3rd onward, and their power was strongly tied to draconic heritage. Also, I think for a default subclass, it really should be in the PHB, and when the choice is between the two presented their, the choice is also easy (dranconic being by far more iconic).

[Segev]

The dragon sorcerer was intended to fit the "default" feel, because that was the default explanation for their powers in 3e, when sorcerer was introduced as its own separate class from magic-user/wizard. I do get the OP's question, though, because to a degree, it misses the mark if the goal was really "old-school feel" the way the other examples he gave fit it. The draconic sorcerer feels more like a PrC-styled one who chose to capitalize on that fluff with crunch, rather than the "generic" spontaneous-caster-with-a-focus that was the iconic ideal of the old 3e sorcerer.

This is probably why we're getting "storm sorcerer" and "pyromancer" as arguments for a more "genuine default." These offer specialized abilities, yes, but they feel like just "more (themed) magic" than "weird bloodline-related class features," the way Fae and Dragon do.

To be fair, there really isn't a "default" wizard anymore, either. They're ALL specialists. It's just that specializing is pure bonus, now, rather than costing something over being a generalist.

[Asmotherion]

Wile Sorcerers are generally defined by their Origin in that it is unique and alters the experiance of the class the most "vanila" Sorcerer is generally considered to be the Dragonic Origin one. The whole "i have magic because i'm 1/10th Dragon in my bloodline" trope was pretty popular in 3.5 and was also a thing in 2e Dark Sun (Defiler Class Progression) from what i know. i'm unsure if it dates even further back but Sorcerers were officially introduced as a class option in 3.x (Before wich everyone was generally classified under "Magic User" and latter "Wizard". Dragonomicon etc were also introduced in 3.x to help the trope.

The Divine Soul is mostly a modern version of the Favored Soul; A sorcerer-esque analogue to the cleric.

The Shadow Sorcerer in aspects of lore is mostly his own thing. There was the Dread Necromancer but he is easyer simulated by an Evil Divine Soul than a Shadow Sorcerer. And Shadow Magic in 3.x was mostly illusion based.

i don't remember a lot but i'm pretty positive Wild/Chaos Magic was also a thing in 3.5 though not as popular as the Dragon Trope.

That's more or less what i remember about tropes that existed in the past. Any aditional information is welcome.

[stewstew5]

The dragon sorcerer was intended to fit the "default" feel, because that was the default explanation for their powers in 3e, when sorcerer was introduced as its own separate class from magic-user/wizard. I do get the OP's question, though, because to a degree, it misses the mark if the goal was really "old-school feel" the way the other examples he gave fit it. The draconic sorcerer feels more like a PrC-styled one who chose to capitalize on that fluff with crunch, rather than the "generic" spontaneous-caster-with-a-focus that was the iconic ideal of the old 3e sorcerer.

This is probably why we're getting "storm sorcerer" and "pyromancer" as arguments for a more "genuine default." These offer specialized abilities, yes, but they feel like just "more (themed) magic" than "weird bloodline-related class features," the way Fae and Dragon do.

To be fair, there really isn't a "default" wizard anymore, either. They're ALL specialists. It's just that specializing is pure bonus, now, rather than costing something over being a generalist.

That’s about the high and low of it, though I feel it’s less impactful for wizards. Their whole deal is being a “specialist” of sort, a person who has dedicated their lives to studying magic, so being very specialized seems very on-brand

[Connington]

Beyond the fluff of it, the generic option is the Draconic sorcerer, because that's what is published in the SRD for 5e. It's literally the generic brand that third party publishers are free to re-use as needed.

The generic subclass doesn't have to be the most popular - Evoker Wizards and Berserker Barbarians certainly aren't.

[Segev]

Beyond the fluff of it, the generic option is the Draconic sorcerer, because that's what is published in the SRD for 5e. It's literally the generic brand that third party publishers are free to re-use as needed.

The generic subclass doesn't have to be the most popular - Evoker Wizards and Berserker Barbarians certainly aren't.

Evoker Wizards are, I think, just picked out of a hat for the "SRD one." Berserker Barbarians are pretty default, though: Barbarian rage double down upon. The totem barbarian adds a flavor to them that wasn't really present in the original incarnation, though argument could be made that approaches like it appeared later in later editions.

[LibraryOgre]

Since I liked doing the Pantheist cleric, let's try the "Magic Bloodline" Sorcerer.

Magic Bloodline
Some sorcerers can trace their powers to a singular ancestor or event. A draconic great-grandparent, a nursery in the Elemental Chaos, or mama was struck by lightning just before you were born. Others... don't. Their power comes from some connection to the Weave, a merging of several different magical bloodlines, or some other source of simple magic that links to the Prime Material plane through them, and them alone. Unique and idiosyncratic, the Magic Bloodline represents an individual whose magic is truly their own.

1st level
The fingers of magic spread throughout your life, and in odd ways. At 1st level, someone with the Magic Bloodline chooses two additional cantrips from any spell list, and one first level spell from any spell list. These are additional spells known for the sorcerer, and are considered sorcerer spells for this character.

6th Level
A Magic-blooded sorcerer can reach deep into magic, creating the effects that they need. They may cast a spell from any spell list, at a cost of that spell's level in sorcery points and the appropriate spell slot. The spell may be no higher than 5th level.

14th Level
Magic, sorcery, is in your blood. At 14th level, choose one Metamagic that you know. That metamagic now requires 1 less sorcery point to enact, minimum zero. You are still limited to one metamagic per spell casting, unless otherwise noted.

18th level
At 18th level, you are able to smother magic that might harm you with your own. When the sole target of a spell (not merely within the area of effect) you are aware of, you may use your reaction to spend sorcery points equal to the level of the spell to simply cancel the spell. You may only do so once per turn, and must announce that you are doing so before the result is known (i.e. before damage is announced).

***

There. A sorcerer without any particular tie, who can be something of a utility caster, whose focus is "I know magic."

[patchyman]

Since I liked doing the Pantheist cleric, let's try the "Magic Bloodline" Sorcerer.

1st level
The fingers of magic spread throughout your life, and in odd ways. At 1st level, someone with the Magic Bloodline chooses two additional cantrips from any spell list, and one first level spell from any spell list. These are additional spells known for the sorcerer, and are considered sorcerer spells for this character."

I’ve been working on my own improvement to the sorcerer. Continuing with the “I am magic theme”, at first level they get Detect magic at will (since they can just see magic) and they can replace the material component with a somatic component for any spell that requires a material component of 100 gp or less.

Since sorcerers already get lots of cantrips, I’m not sure giving them additional ones is the best 1st level ability. I love the other abilities though.

[Man_Over_Game]

Since I liked doing the Pantheist cleric, let's try the "Magic Bloodline" Sorcerer.

Do you feel that the Magic Bloodline suggestion you made fits a niche that the Wild Magic Sorcery doesn't?

[Kane0]

Probably wild magic not being generically magic in the same vein as being spellscarred isn't, thematically speaking. Reminds me of the PF Arcane Sorcerer bloodline actually.

[LibraryOgre]

Do you feel that the Magic Bloodline suggestion you made fits a niche that the Wild Magic Sorcery doesn't?

More refined. The Wild magic Sorcery is raw, elemental magic... it's possibly a connection to Limbo, the Elemental Planes, or the Far Realm... weird, alien, stuff. The Magic Bloodline is simply "I have a lot of magic in my ancestry, and it allows me to use magic very well."

[sophontteks]

Everything you've said here relates to the *power* of the class, which is utterly irrelevant to the discussion.

I'm not saying that the Storm Sorcerer is better than the Draconic Sorcerer, or even that it's a good subclass. Merely that it seems far closer to a 'generic' sorcerer than the Draconic Sorcerer.
I'm not either. I'm saying that storm sorcerers are niche, and niche is not generic. They have a very pronounced flavor to them that is very unique. Furthermore their abilities clash with the base class. If your fighting against the base class in order to make the archtype work how can it be the generic pick?

[Dr. Cliché]

I'm not either. I'm saying that storm sorcerers are niche, and niche is not generic.

I disagree. Whilst they are not flavourless, they are far more generic than Draconic sorcerers. At the end of the day, they're just casters with a vague lightning/wind theme.


Furthermore their abilities clash with the base class. If your fighting against the base class in order to make the archtype work how can it be the generic pick?

Because the alternative locks you into being the descendant of a Dragon. It's impossible to change that without rewriting the class fluff. How exactly is that generic?

[KOLE]

My favorite "Generic" Sorcerer is actually the Pyromancer bloodline from Plane Shift:Kaladesh.

You then receate it with every other damage type. Think of it as the "Elemental Adept" Bloodline.

Shamelessly stealing this for my own game.

[Contrast]

I actually would have assumed Wild Sorcs were the 'generic' sorcerers.

Note that the headers for the sorcerer description page are 'raw magic' and 'unexplained source'. Quintessential wild mage.

The fact that the source of the wild mages powers is undefined means it can be anything you want it to be (or, indeed, ignore it completely potentially) without the need for refluffing as well. Their abilities are also mostly insular in that they do not encourage specific metamagic or spell selections leaving you open to chose whatever.

[Prince Vine]

If we go from a historical standpoint by theme the draconic sorcerer is the one that most matches the original 3e sorcerer idea since 'blood of dragons' was their whole schtick. It just seems less ingrained than devotion, or thief since those existed longer.

Obviously by mechanics things are crazy since bards were originally fighter/rogue/druid multiclasses.

[Vogie]

Shamelessly stealing this for my own game.

I also have a slightly updated Cryomancer build (cold damage) in my sig if you'd like.

[patchyman]

I actually would have assumed Wild Sorcs were the 'generic' sorcerer.

The problem with wild sorcerers, both generally and in this context, is the absence of spells that suggest uncontrolled magic (except Chaos bolt in XGE and maybe the two Prismatic spells in the Player’s handbook).

By that measure, at least Draconic sorcerers can take several spells that scream “I have dragon blood”!

[Man_Over_Game]

The problem with wild sorcerers, both generally and in this context, is the absence of spells that suggest uncontrolled magic (except Chaos bolt in XGE and maybe the two Prismatic spells in the Player’s handbook).

By that measure, at least Draconic sorcerers can take several spells that scream “I have dragon blood”!

I'd say there's quite a few.

Thunderwave and Sleep affect allies if you're not careful and give off the feel that you're describing. Sleep's effectiveness is inherently random, and appears to randomly put people to sleep.
Blur and Mirror Image are all about causing enemies to miss via randomness alone.
Shatter seems pretty chaotic to me, destroying objects with the power of sound.
Not to mention Blink, a spell that teleports you to an alternate plane of existence based on random chance alone.

Assuming you're a level 5 Sorcerer, that's all of your leveled spells. And that's before including the ones you're describing.

[InspectorG]

I dunno, i thought it was kinda obvious:

Draconic = Law via domination

Wild = Chaos via random happenings of magic that arent really controlled.

The rest are pretty elementally/planar themed.

[Mercurias]

In terms of fluff, Draconic is pretty definitively the "generic" Sorcerous Origin. At least one prior version of D&D listed dragon heritage as the source of a Sorcerer's magical ability.

I like the variety available for Sorcerers in 5e. I still want to play a Wild Magic Halfling Sorc super badly, but man that Shadow Origin calls to me, also.

[KorvinStarmast]

To my mind, the Storm Sorcerer seems closer to a generic sorcerer than the Draconic one.
The generic sorcerer is the Draconic Bloodline, because that is the sorcerer sub class they chose for the SRD, which has in it:
Evoker Wizard
Thief Rogue
Life Cleric
Champion Fighter
Open Hand Monk
Hunter Ranger
Devotion Paladin
Fiend Warlock
Land Druid
Beserker Barbarian (yeah, generic)
Lore Bard

Draconic Bloodline: generic sorcerer. :smallsmile:

PS: Shadow Sorcerer is pretty cool. Mine's a vHuman.

[SVamp]

Frankly I’d really like it if there were a fully generic subclass.

Something like remove extra hp, extra AC, cha to fire dmg, wings, and add instead the spell point variant for spell lvls 1-5 . (Or if it’s too powerful remove the sorcery points to slots thing, increase sorcery pool a bit, and allow to regain cha sorcery points per short rest once per day. )

Then at the various bumps in power you can get one enhancement to meta magic: use your lvl 11 ability to enhance extend so you can have two concentration spells running (penalty to concentration though) or careful spell to mould spells so they always avoid allies (web, fireball, etc can be dropped without any care now), or quicken to allow a second lvl 2 spell or lower to be cast instead of just a cantrip, heghen to work on all saving throw by the spell not just the initial one, etc. Just examples don’t have to be these specific ones.

At lvl6 you could choose one ofempower can be made to add cha to the total damage roll, subtle to cost no spell points, etc.

At lvl 14 you should get to choose from a cool sorcery only option. Maybe a cool spell, or your Damge spells do additional effects now when empowered : cold slows down on a failed save, lightning can stun (separate will save) fire ignites, sound/thunder deafens.. eh whatever just a thought

TL;DR : I’d love a “basic” subclass that would be all about being the best at sorcery in general, not at being draconic or shadowy or stormy or Phoenixy.( I do like the shadow sorcerer though, lol)

[Kane0]

I actually really like that there isnt a specifically generic option. It forces you to pick something, and that helps me where otherwise i would pick the generic option and then have one less thing to spribgboard from in order to have an interesting character.
Which goes doubly for wizards, i would have hated a generalist subclass.

[SVamp]

I actually really like that there isnt a specifically generic option. It forces you to pick something, and that helps me where otherwise i would pick the generic option and then have one less thing to spribgboard from in order to have an interesting character.
Which goes doubly for wizards, i would have hated a generalist subclass.

For wizard, it’s called war magic. (And it could have been argued that diviner filled the gap before it came out)

For sorcerer, it could be called sorcerer supreme, lol. Or maybe less lame, sorcerer savant, battle sorcerer, etc.

I think it’s just a matter of semantic, instead of readying generic read “specializes in sorcery”

[Kane0]

For wizard, it’s called war magic. (And it could have been argued that diviner filled the gap before it came out)

For sorcerer, it could be called sorcerer supreme, lol. Or maybe less lame, sorcerer savant, battle sorcerer, etc.

I think it’s just a matter of semantic, instead of readying generic read “specializes in sorcery”

Eh, I would have said lore wizard. One of many reasons I didn't like it.

"So what makes you a sorcerer?"
"Magic"
"Of course, but where does it come from?"
"I dunno, just magic I guess"
"Right. And that makes you the most magical?"
"Yep"

Like, give me something to work with. A subclass in theory is supposed to differentiate you from others of the same class both mechanically and thematically.
I use the spell point and anyspell thing with all sorcerers by default anyways, to differentiate them from wizards and warlocks.

[SVamp]

Eh, I would have said lore wizard. One of many reasons I didn't like it.

"So what makes you a sorcerer?"
"Magic"
"Of course, but where does it come from?"
"I dunno, just magic I guess"
"Right. And that makes you the most magical?"
"Yep"

Like, give me something to work with. A subclass in theory is supposed to differentiate you from others of the same class both mechanically and thematically.
I use the spell point and anyspell thing with all sorcerers by default anyways, to differentiate them from wizards and warlocks.

You come from a line of spell casters, or are a descendant of a magical creature. Your great grandmother maybe was a nymph, or your entire family have always been casters. For whatever reason however, the dormant magic in your blood flared up, perhaps you were born under a magical sign? Full moon? Or just chaotic coincidence.

At any rate, you never quite took to book learning. You mastered magic far easier and with less effort, and yet you could tell your magic was different from other would be students.

You managed to pass yourself as a competent student but ultimately you realized you would only, at best, be a mediocre wizard unless you focused on the magic that flowed in your veins. You excelled at that, easily surpassing your peers.

(... now that I think about it, it’d be kinda cool if you had access to a few extra wizard spells, like get to pick a wizard spell each five levels instead of a sorcerer spell or something. But whatever not really needed and bards might whine, lol. Maybe just a few extra cantrips or something? Heck for this specific character I’d totally take ritual caster as soon as I could, prolly lvl 4 or 8 if half elf, lvl 1 if vhuman)

[patchyman]

I actually really like that there isnt a specifically generic option. It forces you to pick something, and that helps me where otherwise i would pick the generic option and then have one less thing to spribgboard from in order to have an interesting character.
Which goes doubly for wizards, i would have hated a generalist subclass.

The main reason I would like a generalist subclass is for those concepts that don’t fit in one of the existing subclasses. All the sorcerer subclasses are very niche and I find it easy to come up with subclasses that don’t fit.

Also, you can’t really compare wizards and sorcerers (I agree with you on wizards BTW). Both the wizard fluff and their mechanics are about generalism and versatility, so I find that the fit with the specialized subclasses awkward. Sorcerers are all about specialisation (with very few spells known drawn from a large list), so no number of subclasses will allow people to create all the sorcerers they want. A generalist class would at least allow them to improve the spells theh want to take.

[LibraryOgre]

With some help, I built a "generic" bloodline. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?582723-Magic-Bloodline-for-Sorcerers&p=23765848)

[NaughtyTiger]

Since I liked doing the Pantheist cleric, let's try the "Magic Bloodline" Sorcerer.

Magic Bloodline
Some sorcerers can trace their powers to a singular ancestor or event. A draconic great-grandparent, a nursery in the Elemental Chaos, or mama was struck by lightning just before you were born. Others... don't. Their power comes from some connection to the Weave, a merging of several different magical bloodlines, or some other source of simple magic that links to the Prime Material plane through them, and them alone. Unique and idiosyncratic, the Magic Bloodline represents an individual whose magic is truly their own.

1st level
The fingers of magic spread throughout your life, and in odd ways. At 1st level, someone with the Magic Bloodline chooses two additional cantrips from any spell list, and one first level spell from any spell list. These are additional spells known for the sorcerer, and are considered sorcerer spells for this character.

6th Level
A Magic-blooded sorcerer can reach deep into magic, creating the effects that they need. They may cast a spell from any spell list, at a cost of that spell's level in sorcery points and the appropriate spell slot. The spell may be no higher than 5th level.

14th Level
Magic, sorcery, is in your blood. At 14th level, choose one Metamagic that you know. That metamagic now requires 1 less sorcery point to enact, minimum zero. You are still limited to one metamagic per spell casting, unless otherwise noted.

18th level
At 18th level, you are able to smother magic that might harm you with your own. When the sole target of a spell (not merely within the area of effect) you are aware of, you may use your reaction to spend sorcery points equal to the level of the spell to simply cancel the spell. You may only do so once per turn, and must announce that you are doing so before the result is known (i.e. before damage is announced).

***

There. A sorcerer without any particular tie, who can be something of a utility caster, whose focus is "I know magic."

holee crap!!! that is strong.
+2 cantrips and spell from any list
any spell from any list any time
an at will meta magic
super cheap uncontested counterspell (that can't be counterspelled)

[LibraryOgre]

holee crap!!! that is strong.
+2 cantrips and spell from any list
any spell from any list any time
an at will meta magic
super cheap uncontested counterspell (that can't be counterspelled)

Take a look at the updated version at the link.

[stewstew5]

TL;DR : I’d love a “basic” subclass that would be all about being the best at sorcery in general, not at being draconic or shadowy or stormy or Phoenixy.( I do like the shadow sorcerer though, lol)

Exactly what I’m looking for.

(I agree shadow is by far the coolest)

[NaughtyTiger]

Take a look at the updated version at the link.

what link?
and hey im in austin..

[LibraryOgre]

what link?
and hey im in austin..

It was in the post immediately above yours. Now it is also here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?582723-Magic-Bloodline-for-Sorcerers&p=23765848)