Magical thieves in literature.

[AtlasSniperman]

Hey, Silly curious question:
In fiction, it isn't unheard of for thief characters(protagonists and antagonists alike) to use some small amounts of magic. I was curious what magicks you can think of being used by specific thieves often in films/literature.

E.g. the main character of the movie(and book I assume) "Jumper" uses teleportation to rob banks.

[Bastian Weaver]

Well, see, there was this burglar, mister Baggins, and he had that one ring...

[Rynjin]

There's a good book series I've read a bit of called "The legend of Eli Monpress", where the titular character is a thief who's also a wizard. Wizards in-setting work by binding spirits to their service, but Monpress can actually talk to them, and is a smooth talker so can do stuff like convince a door that it is very tired and would be more comfortable letting itself collapse into its constituent planks.

It's a pretty good series, I'd recommend it.

[Kitten Champion]

Invisibility is common. Obviously every fantasy writer exists in the shadow of Sheila from D&D -- I mean, were she to cast one, because invisible.

Though I personally like the luck-based powers of Marvel's Black Cat -- I mean, when she had them, because comics.

[Knaight]

Monkey stands out here - sure, "thief" isn't his only occupation, but he steals a lot of stuff in Journey to the West often with some combination of magic and trickery. It's a secondary technique to braining things with a staff, but if anything it probably sees more page count dedicated to it.

Mostly this involves transformation magic, used either for physical infiltration (pretending to be a tiny animal or valuable object) or impersonation of trusted people - often at the same time, as Monkey's first trick is usually a bunch of copies of himself. In the robbing a vault example this would be shapeshifting into a valuable object, getting stored in the vault with the other valuables, then turning back into your normal form to take everything from inside. Then a second copy of you distracts the guards outside by pretending to be their commander.

[Khedrac]

Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are primarily theives who use magic.

I think there are lots more examples in literature out there, but they tend to divide into two camps:
Thieves in a magical world - often use magical items, but atre not spellcasters themselves
Spell-caster theives

One of the twists is that to make decent novels they are rarely just theives (or rarely stay that way even if they want to) otherwise they don't make interetsing protagonists.

[Leewei]

Roger Zelazny's "Jack of Shadows" is a fun read. The main character is immortal (as many of Zelazny's characters are). He can hear whenever anyone speaks his name in shadow. When killed, he respawns (much like a modern MMO). He can step through shadows to teleport and shape them into objects. Absolute light or darkness strip him of power.

[tomandtish]

Mickey Zucker Reichert's Legend of Nightfall has the protagonist able to adjust his density at will.

[Leewei]

I'd also recommend Scott Lynch's Gentleman Bastards stories. Locke Lamora, the protagonist, is a thief as well as a priest (of the god of thieves, naturally).

[comicshorse]

In Jack L Chalkers 'The Dancing Gods' series I remember one of the characters commenting that a good thief always learns a 'Detect Gold' spell to cut down on the tedious searching to find where the mark has hidden his money


On a side note the finest tale of magical thieves I've ever read is Scott Lynch's 'A Year and a Day in old Theradane' in which a gang of professional thieves are hired to steal a street

[S@tanicoaldo]

Monsieur Zenith is a gentleman thief who served as a base for the creation of the fantasy character Elric of Melniboné. Elric's creator Michael Moorcock in turn influenced the re-publication of Skene's sole novel, Monsieur Zenith: The Albino.

He also shows up in The Metatemporal Detective and Zenith Lives!: Tales of M.Zenith, the Albino.

[Leewei]

On a side note the finest tale of magical thieves I've ever read is Scott Lynch's 'A Year and a Day in old Theradane' in which a gang of professional thieves are hired to steal a street

Available free, online, too. (https://uncannymagazine.com/article/a-year-and-a-day-in-old-theradane/) Ooh, this is quite a gem!

[Mordar]

Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are primarily theives who use magic.

I think there are lots more examples in literature out there, but they tend to divide into two camps:
Thieves in a magical world - often use magical items, but atre not spellcasters themselves
Spell-caster theives

One of the twists is that to make decent novels they are rarely just theives (or rarely stay that way even if they want to) otherwise they don't make interetsing protagonists.

Wait, did they? I thought the Lankhmar boys were strictly mundane, and just ended up having to do some jobs for the 7-eyed and 0-eyed wizards.

It has been ages since I read them (actively looking for my copies again, though, funnily enough) so I could be wrong.

- M

[Otomodachi]

Wait, did they? I thought the Lankhmar boys were strictly mundane, and just ended up having to do some jobs for the 7-eyed and 0-eyed wizards.

It has been ages since I read them (actively looking for my copies again, though, funnily enough) so I could be wrong.

- M

They're both (although noticeably moreso Mouser due to his actual training) able to use items and scrolls, essentially. If yer a DnD guy, they have the Use Magic Item skill trained up.

As for the OP, are you familiar with a fella that goes by the name of Aladdin? He fits the bill pretty well, as well as Sinbad the Sailor; they're not "casting spells" but both use high-utility magic items. That's definitely where my mind goes first when I think of a magic-using thief- an actual regular person who has a big collection of magic stuff to get the job done.

[S@tanicoaldo]

Grey mouser was actually a wizard aprendice before turnign to the criminal life and in The Lords of Quarmall he shows to have the potencial to become an extremilly powerful mage if he wasn't so lazy.

He reads a spell scroll and almost levels an entire city state.

I'm not sure about the Fafhrd, but he was kind of a Rogue/barbarian/Bard combo, since he was responsible to tell tales ans sing songs in his original village and his mother is a powerful Ice witch. So maybe he got magic in his blood? He never used spells in the books as far as I can remmber.

[Majin]

Kelsier and his gang from Mistborn use Allomancy, a metal-based magic. They have various abilities, like pushing and pulling on metals, making themselves stronger, and affecting someone's emotions.

[Aedilred]

The original magical thief (in the West) was probably Autolycus. He had a helmet of invisibility (stolen from Hades, iirc) and a power of metamorphosis.

[comicshorse]

Not Prometheus ?

[Chronos]

Quoth Kitten Champion:

Invisibility is common. Obviously every fantasy writer exists in the shadow of Sheila from D&D -- I mean, were she to cast one, because invisible.
:smallconfused: Who's that? I've never heard of her, and I expect that many fantasy writers likewise haven't.

Cugel the Clever, from Jack Vance's Dying Earth series (one of the major influences on D&D) was mostly mundane (usual MO is slick-talking and cheating at gambling games), but he does at one point use the Charm of Forlorn Encystment to get revenge on the wizard who's been playing him for a fool. Or at least, he tries to: He accidentally swaps two syllables, and so ends up instead releasing everyone who had previously been so imprisoned by that mage. He also has an uncanny knack for finding rare and extremely powerful magic items.

Robert Asprin's Myth series is about Skeeve, a small-time thief who finds himself apprenticed to a powerful wizard (who, embarrassingly, is currently unable to cast spells, due to a prank by another wizard). He only learns about three spells, but he uses them in such clever ways that he ends up building up a reputation as the greatest wizard in all the worlds.

Larry Niven's short story "What Good is a Glass Dagger?" is about a thief (who happens to be a werewolf) who attempts to rob The Warlock, but is defeated in a particularly clever way. We never actually see him casting a spell, but he attempts to, before The Warlock interrupts him.

[Otomodachi]

:smallconfused: Who's that? I've never heard of her, and I expect that many fantasy writers likewise haven't.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kG5dd71CZ8g/UpE_kavk9RI/AAAAAAACs8M/01Xslx0T54c/s1600/sheila_cloak_of_invisibility.jpg

DnD Cartoon.

[Aedilred]

Not Prometheus ?

I don't recall Prometheus having any specified magical ability other than what comes naturally to gods. Same for Hermes. I might have forgotten though.

[Mordar]

They're both (although noticeably moreso Mouser due to his actual training) able to use items and scrolls, essentially. If yer a DnD guy, they have the Use Magic Item skill trained up.


Grey mouser was actually a wizard aprendice before turnign to the criminal life and in The Lords of Quarmall he shows to have the potencial to become an extremilly powerful mage if he wasn't so lazy.

He reads a spell scroll and almost levels an entire city state.

I'm not sure about the Fafhrd, but he was kind of a Rogue/barbarian/Bard combo, since he was responsible to tell tales ans sing songs in his original village and his mother is a powerful Ice witch. So maybe he got magic in his blood? He never used spells in the books as far as I can remmber.

Hrm...I guess I still view that from the non-D&D side of things, but totally understand the opposite perspective.

Aside: I know of a few (mainly horror) movies and a few more books where a mundane reading aloud the words from the hinky book opened a magic door/portal/spawned the evil dead, and would never have considered the mundanes magical. But in this context, I'm pushed closer to the idea that Mouser and Fafhrd have greater magic in them, both because of the fact that thieves/rogues in (A)D&D could try to use magical items (and the circular fact that that is so because of Mouser and Fafhrd!!) and because of the mention of Mouser's aborted apprenticeship. Funny how the mind works.

- M

[2D8HP]

Some damn good taste expressed in this thread!

Not mentioned before is:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/schwab/images/f/fa/Lila_Bard_-_victoriaying_2.jpg/revision/latest/top-crop/width/195/height/195?cb=20150817095224
Deliah "Lila" Bard from the novel A Darker Shade of Magic

“I'm not going to die," she said. "Not till I've seen it."
"Seen what?"
Her smile widened. "Everything.”
-Lila Bard and Kell, A Darker Shade of Magic

she starts out as a street urchin and thief, and....

....she levels up.

I recommend it!

[Otomodachi]

Hrm...I guess I still view that from the non-D&D side of things, but totally understand the opposite perspective.

Aside: I know of a few (mainly horror) movies and a few more books where a mundane reading aloud the words from the hinky book opened a magic door/portal/spawned the evil dead, and would never have considered the mundanes magical. But in this context, I'm pushed closer to the idea that Mouser and Fafhrd have greater magic in them, both because of the fact that thieves/rogues in (A)D&D could try to use magical items (and the circular fact that that is so because of Mouser and Fafhrd!!) and because of the mention of Mouser's aborted apprenticeship. Funny how the mind works.

- M

Well, here's the crux for ME at least- a certain saturation of magical abilities is EVENTUALLY going to make me think of character as a wizard first, and a thief second. Really, unless you're in one of those settings where magic is some sort of innate birth-rite (Star Wars, for example) there's NOT a huge line between "wizard" and "person who knows their stuff but doesn't practice cuz they chose another path". Mouser has always struck me as a lapsed member of some denomination in a lot of ways- he didn't suddenly forget everything he knows, he just realized that wasn't his path.

At some point I need to wonder, if a character is casting spells and has enough mystical power- why aren't they honing THOSE skills instead of thieving? What is it they want from life they just can't get from an honest application of these abilities? Obviously there ARE satisfying answers to that question. IIRC Mouser basically decided "well my teacher is a gigantic trash fire shaped like a human being, screw this guy I'm out of here" (it's been a while but that's how it stuck in my head). A character could just NEED the thrill an illicit life provides (although depending on the kind of magic available, it seems like there'd be plenty of stuff to interest an adrenaline junky in less dishonest ways). Maybe it's a setting where EVERYONE has magic, and so the thief character's magic isn't that unique and they need to make a living robbing or burgling.

BUT I do think that's a more challenging tight-rope to walk than a character like, again, say, Aladdin who already has all the makings of a thief, uses those talents to find himself a ring and a lamp, and BAMMO, magical thief.

I mean, think of it this way. In Disney's Aladdin (assuming at least a decently high percentage of people will have seen that) Jafar steals things through proxy; lies, sometimes with magical enhancement; uses disguises; literally picks pockets and also has an animal buddy who picks pockets; almost steals Sultan-hood WITHOUT the lamp, and then DOES steal an entire kingdom. His absolute, BASE goal is to steal a wife and a kingdom. In your gut, though, do you see him as a magical thief, or a wizard? I admit, as an antagonist he's probably not THE BEST example but I think it illustrates what I think pretty well.

[Eldan]

It's supremely high tech and not magic, but I'm still going to nominate Jean le Flambeur, the one and only Quantum Thief. Amongst other things, he stole an era of history, a minor planet and part of the mind of a god.

[2D8HP]

...IIRC Mouser basically decided "well my teacher is a gigantic trash fire shaped like a human being, screw this guy I'm out of here" (it's been a while but that's how it stuck in my head)...l.


That's not how I read "Unholy Grail" (http://tinyurl.com/kga46nh) at all, my impression was that he was a street urchin thief before being a wizard's apprentice, and he fell back into being one after the events in the story (which seems an outlier in many ways).

[Wraith]

There's a couple of these in the Magic: The Gathering novels and comics. Chandra Nalaar is a Planeswalker who pretty much does whatever she wants, and stealing is certainly among them, whereas Dack Fayden starts out as a thief/burglar with some magical talent who later becomes a Planeswalker and uses his newfound gifts to pull off increasingly impressive heists until he is distracted by the events in Innistrad.

Anything with the "Rogue" type, especially from Lorwyn/Shadowmoore, probably counts too. There's a number of named characters that appear from these sets, I daresay that some of them have their own dedicated stories.

You may also wish to investigate Hot Lead, Cold Iron by Ari Marmell. The protagonist, Mick Oberon, is a faerie who makes a living in 1920's Chicago as a Private Detective, and he isn't afraid to use underhanded means - such as stealing and conning people - in order to follow a lead. He also meets a number of similarly magical characters who are thieves along the way, for a more literal example of... well, magical thieves.

[Otomodachi]

That's not how I read "Unholy Grail" (http://tinyurl.com/kga46nh) at all, my impression was that he was a street urchin thief before being a wizard's apprentice, and he fell back into being one after the events in the story (which seems an outlier in many ways).

Hey, cool, thanks! I concede the point 100%- I don't think I ever read that piece before, or else the partial-readability and decades of smoking weed have jumbled it too much.

The piece I was thinking of was a sort of dual-point-of-view origin story at the beginning of some Leiber-specific compilation I read several years ago, showing Fafhrd and Mouser's origins and how they met. IIRC they don't cover much BEFORE Mouser left his master, and mostly just gives you Mouser's internal monologue about his feelings on leaving? And I remember them being mostly a lot more negative.

SO, either I mis-remembered everything and this is the same story and I just plain suck at memory, OR maybe the one you linked is from a little later in Leiber's life, he wanted to fill in some gaps, and I just never read it. Either way, thanks again! :)


It's supremely high tech and not magic, but I'm still going to nominate Jean le Flambeur, the one and only Quantum Thief. Amongst other things, he stole an era of history, a minor planet and part of the mind of a god.


How many boxes does his tech check, in terms of being a) illicit b) unusually effective and c) unobtainable by a large majority of the population?

I feel like it'd only take two boxes checked for that to count for ME, at least. Sounds like something I might wanna read, thanks! :)

[Eldan]

Difficult to say. Probably not available to most of the population, depending on how one counts "population". Large parts of humanity are made up by things like hive collectives, enslaved mind uploads, cyborgs. "Illicit" is hard to define too, when humanity exists in a state of sometimes cold, sometimes very hot war between upload collectives and asteroid colonies. Unusually effective, absolutely.

[Velaryon]

I don't think this is what OP is asking for, but many movies & TV shows elevate regular old pickpocketing to a magical art form in that a skilled pickpocket is able to lift wallets, keys, and even articles of clothing in physically impossible fashion, often without ever making any physical contact whatsoever.

[Knaight]

For the Mouser it's less that their teacher specifically was a trash fire (though there were conflicts) and more that their teacher was a strict pacifist. Meanwhile the teacher's other apprentice was Mouser's first love and a minor noble, and her dad absolutely was a trash fire creating a great deal of problems for both her and Mouser, at which point he basically decided that the problem with pacifism was that it didn't involve enough stabbing, the obviously correct solution here, and they fell out over it.

Mouser's also very much a broad pulp character, much like Fahfrd. Both are expert thieves, both are expert swordsmen, both are competent warriors in other ways (e.g. slingers or archers), both carry grudges exceptionally well, and Mouser has some magic on top of that while Fahfrd has wilderness familiarity that's exceptional by barbarian tribe standards.

[S@tanicoaldo]

For the Mouser it's less that their teacher specifically was a trash fire (though there were conflicts) and more that their teacher was a strict pacifist. Meanwhile the teacher's other apprentice was Mouser's first love and a minor noble, and her dad absolutely was a trash fire creating a great deal of problems for both her and Mouser, at which point he basically decided that the problem with pacifism was that it didn't involve enough stabbing, the obviously correct solution here, and they fell out over it.

Mouser's also very much a broad pulp character, much like Fahfrd. Both are expert thieves, both are expert swordsmen, both are competent warriors in other ways (e.g. slingers or archers), both carry grudges exceptionally well, and Mouser has some magic on top of that while Fahfrd has wilderness familiarity that's exceptional by barbarian tribe standards.

Fahfrd also became the chosen one of a god for a while.

And a devout evangelist for said religion.

They were certainly not one dimensional and one note characters.

[Otomodachi]

Oh! Oh! Childermass from Jonathon Strange and Mr. Norrell probably fits!

[Aran nu tasar]

Kiera the Thief from the Vlad Taltos novels definitely counts. She's not the central character in any of the books, but plays an important role in several, and is a very competent spellcaster.

Plus it turns out that she's the alter ego of literally the most powerful wizard in existence, which I imagine makes the thievery a little easier.