Making a Thief - Need advice for the build.

[Greenfeuer]

I plan on making a rogue character who later becomes the thief archtype.

So faar I am trying out the idea of a more classic rogue type, and I will list below so faar what skills and stats I have chosen to take or plan to take.

The current race I have is a custom one, so do mind I have acrobatics from it plus 2+ dex and 1 + to cha currently.

Three choices of stats :

10 str, 15 (17 in total after +2 racial), 14 con, 10 int, 10 wis, 13 cha (14 in total after +1 racial)

10 14 (16 in total after +2 racial), 14 con, 12 int, 12 wis, 11 cha (12 in total after +1 racial)

10 15(17 in totalt after + 2 racial), 14 con, 10 int, 12 wis, 11 cha (12 in total after + 1 racial)


I plan to take the following skills: Acrobatics (racial), deception and stealth (Bagground), sleight of hand, perception, atheltics, investigation,

Expertise: Stealth and Perception, level 6: Sleight of hand and thieves tools.

I am unsure whenever to duel wield or use a single weapon yet, maybe skirmish switching between melee and ranged.

I have chosen the Thief so faar to be more versatile and that I become able to do alot of funny things with fast hands in combat.

I like the idea of fast drawing knives and what not with a free hand and throw em at foes for sneak attack and what not.

My plan is to take the Squat Nimbleness feat to increase my dex by 1, and get expertise in atheltics to climb and do more of those rogue things.

I plan on takeing mobile afterwards.

I am playing a goblin like race, who is sort of a mix of halfling and goblin in a way.

___

Another idea is to going swashbuckler, but I have already played a straight up very fighty class last time played, so I wanna try something abit more "strange". Yet I am lured by idea of the swashbuckler too. - And they are great with two weapons.

[BigPixie]

For stats do #3, at 4th level increase Cha & Dex by 1.

[Greenfeuer]

My mistake they should be 11(+1) and 13(+1) from racial, so they are either 12 or 14 from start :)

[Greenfeuer]

I wonder tho if it is smart to put 15 in any stat, since it cost alot and not just 14 to get my 16 from my 2+, again, it goes well with my plan to take Squat Nimbleness :)

[CheddarChampion]

You usually don't need to start with a 17 in your main stat unless you plan to get a feat that gives it a +1 and a little extra. There are exceptions, like mountain dwarf or planning for a half-feat elsewhere.

I'd go with option 2 of 10/16/14/12/12/12 or if you're doing point buy 10/16/14/10/12/14.
Maximize Dex from there, after that the feats Alert, Crossbow Expert, Lucky, Mage Slayer, Mobile, and Sentinel might be worth your time.

Lastly, if you like what the skulker feat gives you, start with 10/17/14/10/12/12 or 10/17/14/10/10/14, get skulker at level 4, then match the above.

[Greenfeuer]

You usually don't need to start with a 17 in your main stat unless you plan to get a feat that gives it a +1 and a little extra. There are exceptions, like mountain dwarf or planning for a half-feat elsewhere.

I'd go with option 2 of 10/16/14/12/12/12 or if you're doing point buy 10/16/14/10/12/14.
Maximize Dex from there, after that the feats Alert, Crossbow Expert, Lucky, Mage Slayer, Mobile, and Sentinel might be worth your time.

Lastly, if you like what the skulker feat gives you, start with 10/17/14/10/12/12 or 10/17/14/10/10/14, get skulker at level 4, then match the above.

These are some nice notes! Thanks!

I plan on takeing Squat Nimbleness, so I can get the my 17 to 18, and atheltics expertise, so I can climb better at times and out run people, worst case. My character has dark vision, I forgot to so say that, so not sure if skulker would do much for me :) - My character walk speed is 30, so I would get 35 from squat too.

Squat Nimbleness:
Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Increase your walking speed by 5 feet.
You gain proficiency in the Acrobatics or Athletics skill. If you’re already proficient in the skill, your proficiency bonus is doubled for any check you make with it.


Edit! My bad! With skulker: You are correct. If you were in total darkness, that would be equivalent to Dim Light/Lightly Obscured to a creature with Dark Vision. However, you would still have to make a stealth check to hide, as the wording is "You can try to hide..." (bold added for emphasis).

So it would still give me something :D

[Keravath]

One thing to consider is whether there are any multi-class options you may want to consider down the road.

Many thieves like to operate in the dark. However, using darkvision in the dark gives you disadvantage on perception checks because darkvision in the dark is just not as good as regular vision in light. Depending on the DM, you might also have disadvantage on investigation, sleight of hand, pick locks, disarm traps, or even stealth since you can't see as well so it is harder to see clues, see details and you are more likely to step on or bump something creating noise just because they are harder to see.

This depends on whether your DM follows the rules on vision and light levels or not.

However, to ensure this is not an issue, I have often included a two level multiclass into warlock for the devils sight invocation which allows the character to see in complete darkness as if it was well lit. You can also pick up the mask of many faces invocation allowing the casting of disguise self at will. This can be particularly useful if you are exploring a house at night and are about to be discovered. You can quickly disguise yourself as one of the inhabitants or at least change your appearance so you won't be recognized. You will also get a couple of cantrips and 2 first level short rest spell slots that can also be used to support your character idea. Depending on role playing decisions and your character back story, there should be a warlock patron that would fit with your ideas.

Anyway, if you are considering this or any other multiclass you need to make sure that you have the required stats (at least 13 in charisma for warlock, or 13 in wisdom if you are considering a ranger multiclass).

So you could something like 10 16 14 10 12 14 .. in that case.

[stoutstien]

I love thief. Fast hands is a woefully unappreciated class feature.
-steal casters component pouches
-unlock a door while being chased and lock the door behind you all in the same turn.
- if you get proficiency don/doff a shield as a bonus action.
-taught enemies by solving a puzzle box while fighting them.

[Crgaston]

I love thief. Fast hands is a woefully unappreciated class feature.
-steal casters component pouches
-unlock a door while being chased and lock the door behind you all in the same turn.
- if you get proficiency don/doff a shield as a bonus action.
-taught enemies by solving a puzzle box while fighting them.

The Healer feat is also potentially amazing on a Thief if you're consistently in tough combats. Use your bonus action to restore a downed ally to 1HP as many times as you have uses for your healers kits. Then it's 1d6+4+ 1hp/Level healing once per short rest for the whole party.

[Greenfeuer]

The Healer feat is also potentially amazing on a Thief if you're consistently in tough combats. Use your bonus action to restore a downed ally to 1HP as many times as you have uses for your healers kits. Then it's 1d6+4+ 1hp/Level healing once per short rest for the whole party.

I have consindered that, but I first need to know how healer heavy the team is and such :)


I would like to ask what stats row you folks would recommend tho! I have three suggestions so faar :D

10 str, 15 (17 in total after +2 racial), 14 con, 10 int, 10 wis, 13 cha (14 in total after +1 racial)

10 14 (16 in total after +2 racial), 14 con, 12 int, 12 wis, 11 cha (12 in total after +1 racial)

10 15(17 in totalt after + 2 racial), 14 con, 10 int, 12 wis, 11 cha (12 in total after + 1 racial)

The uneven 15 could go well with squat nimbleness :)

However! I am unsure whever to go int, wis, or cha. Ofcourse I am thinking strongly of atleast having +1 in cha :)

[Damon_Tor]

I love thief. Fast hands is a woefully unappreciated class feature.
-steal casters component pouches
-unlock a door while being chased and lock the door behind you all in the same turn.
- if you get proficiency don/doff a shield as a bonus action.
-taught enemies by solving a puzzle box while fighting them.

Better uses are to carry items like Ball Bearings and Caltrops and scatter them all over the battlefield during combat. Fast Hands also works on things like alchemist's fire and vials of acid, though plenty of DM's will not allow this. If yours allows it (they should: it's RAW, cool as hell, and doesn't even approach traditional dual-wielding in terms of damage) then consider getting the Tavern Brawler feat for proficiency with the throwing potions, and try to work the alchemy kit proficiency into your background so you can make more acid/alchemist's fire on the cheap during downtime. If you can grab a mending cantrip from someplace you can save money on bottles/vials by salvaging those you throw during combat, knocking 2/1 gp off each throwing potion you craft.

[Greenfeuer]

Better uses are to carry items like Ball Bearings and Caltrops and scatter them all over the battlefield during combat. Fast Hands also works on things like alchemist's fire and vials of acid, though plenty of DM's will not allow this. If yours allows it (they should: it's RAW, cool as hell, and doesn't even approach traditional dual-wielding in terms of damage) then consider getting the Tavern Brawler feat for proficiency with the throwing potions, and try to work the alchemy kit proficiency into your background so you can make more acid/alchemist's fire on the cheap during downtime. If you can grab a mending cantrip from someplace you can save money on bottles/vials by salvaging those you throw during combat, knocking 2/1 gp off each throwing potion you craft.

Nice! I have send this to my GM in hope of him allowing it! Great idea´s :D


However! Feel free to advice me on my point buy stats too ^^

[Damon_Tor]

However! Feel free to advice me on my point buy stats too ^^

Hard to offer an opinion, really. Once you have "16 Dex, 14 Con" on a rogue the rest is just up to you. Do you want to be slightly better at social stuff or slightly better at investigation? In terms of "what is objectively best" you'll find that WIS is more relevant than CHA or INT for two reasons, perception checks (surprise prevention) and saves (wis is frequently targeted) while int and cha have relatively few interactions with combat. In terms of investigation and social stuff, you'll find that anything critical to be found via investigation will be found and anything that must be gained from a social interaction will be gained, because the DM has an interest in keeping the story moving. But that's a very "meta" way of thinking.

[stoutstien]

Nice! I have send this to my GM in hope of him allowing it! Great idea´s :D


However! Feel free to advice me on my point buy stats too ^^
If you play on a grid you don't What
to ever dump str under 10 or you climb, high jump, and long jump suffers alot.
From there I'd focus on Dex then con

[Greenfeuer]

If you play on a grid you don't What
to ever dump str under 10 or you climb, high jump, and long jump suffers alot.
From there I'd focus on Dex then con

Aye, my 10 strenght stays!

I split between going 15 in dex, getting 17 and then taking squat nimbleness in to get to 18 is lureing to get that expertise in althetics + 5 feet movement exstra.

That or going 16 in dex and going with 12 12 12 score in int, wis, cha. Con stays at 14 as it is :)

[Damon_Tor]

If you play on a grid you don't What
to ever dump str under 10 or you climb, high jump, and long jump suffers alot.
From there I'd focus on Dex then con

The structure of this post makes me think of it as a haiku. I know it isn't one, but that's what it makes me think of

[Greenfeuer]

The structure of this post makes me think of it as a haiku. I know it isn't one, but that's what it makes me think of

True, but still some advice to it ^^

I am thinking of taking 10 str, 15 dex, 13 con, 12 int, 12 wis, 12 cha. I plan takeing squat nimbleness at level 4 and maybe resilient (con) or tavern brawler at level 8 :)

Not sure if this is a solid choice, but it feels somewhat right :)

[stoutstien]

The structure of this post makes me think of it as a haiku. I know it isn't one, but that's what it makes me think of
Trying to type on phone "slam" poetry. It does look like a scheme lol

[Orc_Lord]

Stoutsien what kind of equipment would you recommend a thief to always carry with him?

Any other tips? I always have found the Thief such a cool class idea.

[stoutstien]

Stoutsien what kind of equipment would you recommend a thief to always carry with him?

Any other tips? I always have found the Thief such a cool class idea.
if your DM the fan of creative play I would carry anything that you think might be useful.
a good short list would be to read the contents of the burglar bag in the equipment section.
Add ball bearings, caltrops, backup theives tools hidden on person, an other back up set hidden in gear, candles, seal wax, a sack of flour, chalk, spikes, whistle, hand mirror, flasks of oil, crowbar, grapple hook, and of course a towel.

Your individual tactics will vary depending on your party but hard to beat crossbow/short bow and cunning action to hide or to grant advantage otherwise.
If I play thief I tend to have a little mission impossible (the show not the plotless movies) and MacGyver as inspiration.
Be the man with a plan even if that plan involve exploding rats