Oil, Alchemist fire, acid.. Am I seeing this wrong

[Shuruke]

Ok

So each of these have an option to splash it onto an enemy within 5 ft

Here's the catch

A. Their improvised so only proficient with tavern brawler

The above is pretty simple and for the effectnsome of them give I am mpre than ok to lose proficiency to hit

B. Even the splash option is a ranged attack.

Ranged attacks are at Dis advantage unless you have crossbow expert

C. They don't say that they specifically add mod so some dms dont allow it.

Their is a sage advice saying that they use the mod


So
To splash

Is disadvantage without proficiency

Am I missing anything here?

[stoutstien]

Ok

So each of these have an option to splash it onto an enemy within 5 ft

Here's the catch

A. Their improvised so only proficient with tavern brawler

The above is pretty simple and for the effectnsome of them give I am mpre than ok to lose proficiency to hit

B. Even the splash option is a ranged attack.

Ranged attacks are at Dis advantage unless you have crossbow expert

C. They don't say that they specifically add mod so some dms dont allow it.

Their is a sage advice saying that they use the mod


So
To splash

Is disadvantage without proficiency

Am I missing anything here?

Yeah. they are hard to use if your DM a stickler for trying to follow RAW. Honestly I turned them into saves like other adventure equipment so this is a non issue. Maybe ask if you can do that

[Potato_Priest]

Huh, interesting that you bring that up. I think we've always run it "wrong", treating them like molotov cocktails with a thrown range of 20/60 for throwing the vial.

Edit: looking at the rules, you can throw all of them up to 20 feet, so you don't have to make the heavily gimped splash attack. (you don't even get the option to do so with alchemists' fire).

[LudicSavant]

The lack of proficiency (barring Tavern Brawler) really kills the alchemical weapons. If it wasn't for that, they'd be lovely for Thief Rogues in general.

[sithlordnergal]

It depends on the DM, but some will allow you to use them in tandem with Catapult. Which increases their use.

[opaopajr]

They were traditionally old skool used as Rogue tricks, so often for fleeing or upon prone or surprised enemies. The 5e equivalent would be using Conditions, like Blinded, Prone (within 5'), etc.

That said, I actually think they are already cost and action prohibitive that they don't need the Improvised Weapon clause. I'd just take that clause out entirely. 5e is filled with weird cuckoo banana ideas about equipment, and this is just another in a long line, but easily adjusted. :smallsmile:

[KorvinStarmast]

They were traditionally old skool used as Rogue tricks, so often for fleeing or upon prone or surprised enemies. The 5e equivalent would be using Conditions, like Blinded, Prone (within 5'), etc.

That said, I actually think they are already cost and action prohibitive that they don't need the Improvised Weapon clause. I'd just take that clause out entirely. 5e is filled with weird cuckoo banana ideas about equipment, and this is just another in a long line, but easily adjusted. :smallsmile:Old school oil included its use as a missile weapon, as well as rogue tricks, which I recall as far back as OD&D.
Oddly enough, I don't find in my old books any rule on damage before AD&D 1e.
So standard damage of 1d6 on a hit is what most DM's used that I recall.
In AD&D 1e DMG, flaming oil, did 1-3 damage if splashed on the enemy, but 2d6 if a direct hit with oil was made followed by 1d6 on the second round. A flask was a pint. This gave Magic Users at low level something to do: hold the torch, and sometimes light and thrown oil at the enemy.


Direct hit with flaming oil causes 2-12 hit points of damage the first round, and 1-6 additional hit points of damage the second round, but then burns out."
I am not sure if it was first floated in Dragon magazine or Strategic Review before AD&D was published, but every game I was in had a flask of oil, thrown, do 1d6 on a hit. Not sure where that came from.

I was disappointed to see the nerf in 5e. :p

[opaopajr]

Interestingly enough we often conflated Alchemist Fire for Oil back in ye olden days. Alchemist fire is far more flammable than oil, oil has to be already hot to burst into flames. But so many tables said "Who cares? More fire! :smallcool:" That might be why you are having trouble finding the text for it. :smallsmile:

Another thing that's been missing from equipment for some years: barbed & tethered missiles. Makes fliers and swimmers manageable for as long as humans have been dominating planet Earth. But has not yet arrived to WotC Forgotten Realms. :smalltongue: I blame the Spellplague.

[KorvinStarmast]

Interestingly enough we often conflated Alchemist Fire for Oil back in ye olden days. Alchemist fire is far more flammable than oil, oil has to be already hot to burst into flames. But so many tables said "Who cares? More fire! :smallcool:" That might be why you are having trouble finding the text for it. :smallsmile: It wasn't in OD&D (Alchemists Fire). I think that was added into AD&D 2e. That's 15 years after the game was first published. Not old school. :smallcool:
(I am not near my basic/BECMI stuff, it might have cropped up there)

[Willie the Duck]

Old school oil included its use as a missile weapon, as well as rogue tricks, which I recall as far back as OD&D.
Oddly enough, I don't find in my old books any rule on damage before AD&D 1e.

The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures [vol.3] p.12 -- "Burning oil will deter many monsters from continuing pursuit." That's literally it. I'd have to scour The Strategic Reviews and early Dragons, but it could well be that it was merely assumed, since everything else also did 1d6 damage.

[KorvinStarmast]

The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures [vol.3] p.12 -- "Burning oil will deter many monsters from continuing pursuit." That's literally it. I'd have to scour The Strategic Reviews and early Dragons, but it could well be that it was merely assumed, since everything else also did 1d6 damage. Yes, that I also found, but I didn't find damage dice associated with it, and I concur with your conclusion. (Didn't find it in any of the SRs I have)