Is Belkar Roy's friend or attack dog?

[Charles Phipps]

I tend to think that Belkar considers Roy his friend.

Roy can't quite make the mental leap to do so with so many corpses around him.

It's like Clarice Starling and Hannibal Lector before the abomination of the sequel.

[Green Bean]

I have to disagree with that first statement. I tend to think that Belkar views Roy as more of a heavily armed jailer right now. Before, I think it was more of a "Hey, this guy leads me to opportunities where I can kill all I want, with no problems with law enforcement. Score!"

[tainsouvra]

Belkar considers Roy a friend as much as his heavily chaotic and record-setting evil nature permits...which, frankly, isn't enough to even register on most scales.

Roy has a good alignment but knows to be wary of Belkar. He isn't a friend, he's a party member. Sometimes that's the same, sometimes it's anything but the same.

[Elliot Kane]

I don't think Belkar has friends, just people who are more or less useful to him.

[Kish]

Belkar wants to kill Roy. This desire is very important to him.

[Moechi_Vill]

Belkar wants to kill Roy and considers Roy to be his friend and to a lesser extent a party member and a jailor. Roy considers Belkar to be his attack dog, party member and moral baggage.

Belkar considers V some sort of companion.

Party/crew also means family in a way. Serenity anyone?


Record-setting evil?
come on, he's good, but he's not THAT good... err evil

though I must say the 'dead humans for my birthday' ramblings and 'God of War' scene impressed me *sigh* don't you know the days of the Old-school hack
Now if he could fall in love then end up violating that through the ranks gleefully I might be inclined to consider him one of the most evil rpg characters ever.

As it is his behavior is not much worse than a good stock amount of 'ep's for treasure'-heroes.

[Barbolanero]

I think that the Roy considers Belkar his comrade as the minimum. HE has proven to accept all of the order, so he probable has developed friendship bonds with all of them. Though he probably reckons that Belkar is evil, he has accepted him that way, and is loyal to him to. That's what I think.

[David Argall]

Belkar wants to kill Roy. This desire is very important to him.

Well, very important is probably an exaggeration. He clearly wants V first. Miko and her mount likely rank even higher, but he may well accept that they are out of reach. And his inclusion of the oracle in his cause the death of list suggests that anybody within reach is a desireable victim.

Of course, given that Roy was scared to sleep near a loose Belkar...

[Moechi_Vill]

you can only knock back so many brewskis and Mai-Tais while razing villages and nattering sarcastic jokes at each other and the monsters before you become something as Erik Cartman put it that time he wanted to go to that Spanish Mexican place

Now Erik Cartman, there is an EVIL character.

... though all-in-all I guess Belkster is worse... but that's due to the relatively good nurturing (yes, I know he's been spoiled) that Erik has received from his loving mother. Of course if I go any further on this topic I'll be 'generalizing' the halfling race by pointing out the conditions Belkar might have been raised in and I'll get an increment so I'll wrap it up.

[yoshi927]

I agree with the OP, that's what I've been trying to say. Those who are saying that Roy views Belkar as an attack dog, do you think that that makes Roy a good person? Bah.


Roy isn't being true to himself in this interview. If it were Roy talking, he'd tell the deva what she could do with her files, and to stay away from his friends.

[DeadmanXI]

I agree with the OP, that's what I've been trying to say. Those who are saying that Roy views Belkar as an attack dog, do you think that that makes Roy a good person? Bah.


Roy isn't being true to himself in this interview. If it were Roy talking, he'd tell the deva what she could do with her files, and to stay away from his friends.

First, we have no actual evidence Roy considers Belkar a friend. He considers him a 'soldier' under his command, but friend? We really don't know.

Second, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Speaking as someone with morally dubious friends, planning to curb their excesses and even to channel their talents productively while still legitimately being their friend is quite possible. I've obviously never done it to the degree Roy would need to with Belkar (heck, I don't think I've even done the channeling bit), but it's quite possible.

[Charles Phipps]

I don't think Roy considers Belkar a friend at all because the little halfling is a psychotic mass murderer. Belkar, on the other hand, does consider Roy to be a friend because he's the only guy that treats him nice.

I think Roy's definition of friend precludes a man that might suddenly kill you for no reason.

Belkar's definition? Not so much.

[Kish]

I agree with the OP, that's what I've been trying to say. Those who are saying that Roy views Belkar as an attack dog, do you think that that makes Roy a good person? Bah.

Well, I'll tell you this right now. Actually considering Belkar a friend sure wouldn't make Roy a good person. Nor would it make him a sane person.

[Moechi_Vill]

I agree with the OP, that's what I've been trying to say. Those who are saying that Roy views Belkar as an attack dog, do you think that that makes Roy a good person? Bah.


Roy isn't being true to himself in this interview. If it were Roy talking, he'd tell the deva what she could do with her files, and to stay away from his friends.

Yeah, he's kinda stabbing the kid in the back. Just a little, but it still hurts.

/eh... you can't be friends with an evil guy and not be good? There goes redemption and showing love to the evil world.

Lookitt guys... there's this thing in Serenity when this thief or whatever thinks he's been left to dry because the ship had to escape, but the captain comes back later though he doesn't even like his new hand.
The guy asks him: 'why did you rescue me'
-'you're part of my crew'
'you don't even like me'
-'you're part of my crew, why we still talking about this?'

I got this from over at TvTropes... they have a nice little article about derivative 'family' concepts. For all intents and purposes a D&D adventuring party comes pretty close to this distinction. What Roy should be doing is hosting an intervention with lotz and lotz of time for Belkar or he could puss out and get a 'silly stick of alignment change' and we'd have our new Miko.

[Green Bean]

I don't think Roy considers Belkar a friend at all because the little halfling is a psychotic mass murderer. Belkar, on the other hand, does consider Roy to be a friend because he's the only guy that treats him nice.

I think Roy's definition of friend precludes a man that might suddenly kill you for no reason.

Belkar's definition? Not so much.


Elan treats Belkar much nicer than Roy, but our psychotic little halfling was still willing to gut him for XP. Apparently Belkar's definition of a friend has ample room for stabbage, as well.

[Moechi_Vill]

Well of course... we are talking about a sociopath here.

Pluss Elan is kind of a putz. Not that, that is in any way shape or form reason to stab someone, but to Belkar he must be a big, wet target.



I've played lots of neutral and even good characters who'd stab their friends for fun... granted, those games were... irreverant, but my point goes - a little violence like getting your only level 20 character killed (permanently) in the marsh by his friend over a roll of bog paper doesn't have to mean anything... it's all in what the participants feel. Belkar probably has an interesting world concept and actually puts evil intent into his violence but that doesn't mean he can't think of someone as a friend just because he's trying to be violent to them.

Violence is what Belkar does. I doubt it he gives it a thought beyond instinct and like half the time.

[Oberon]

I don't think Belkar has friends, just people who are more or less useful to him.

Or more or less amusing (Elan, Shojo, and occasionally Roy- eg: Treasure type O)

[Mordokai]

I agree with the OP, that's what I've been trying to say. Those who are saying that Roy views Belkar as an attack dog, do you think that that makes Roy a good person? Bah.

Does any of party members consider Belkar anything more than attack dog? Elan is excluded, he doesn't have the mental capabilities to percieve Belkar the right way.

The point I'm trying to make here, Belkar IS not much more than an attack dog in this party, and I'm pretty sure that party percieves him as such. Heck, I'm pretty sure even Belkar sees himself as such, and I believe he is quite happy with the role. He would probably stab anyone who would try and take that away from him. Does that make Haley, V and Durkon bad(or even evil) peoples? No, it makes them SANE! Considering Belkar a friend is like... trying to get on his good side. He just doen't have it, therefore, you can't be his friend. Infact, as it was mentioned, Belkar definition of friendship is kind of broad, but I'm pretty sure none of them is the right way.


Roy isn't being true to himself in this interview. If it were Roy talking, he'd tell the deva what she could do with her files, and to stay away from his friends.

Right, that would DEFINETLY get him on her good side. That would certainly proove that he is a good person.

:roy: You know what honey, why don't you just take that files and stick them somewhere your holly light can reach them. Nobody has the right of asking me about my friends.
:deva: Ooooh, I'm sorry sir, you have just been demoted to True neutral. Have a nice day in Limbo.
:roy: .... Crap

That is out of character for him. He is LG, so it is by definition he would cooperate with her. What is more, as I already explained to you in #489 topic, Roy believes in what he is talking.

I'm pretty sure that the only one of Roy's "friends" from the party that is mentioned in this talk is Belkar, because he is the only one who could pose a problem to Roy. And as we already deduces, Belkar is not really Roy's friend.

[Wolfman42666]

What exactly is the point to this thread? Roy is Loyal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0285.html) to Belkar, and vice versa (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html)
He’s willing to kill his teammates because he's Belkar; he's clearly more willing to kill their enemies though.

Seriously putting things in context of good and evil and friendship and duty are as far apart as myself from sanity.

[I'm da Rogue!]

Being willing to kill your party members (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html) doesn't make you their friend, right?

Suggestion:

You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable. Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell.

He did it because he's Belkar and he likes killing.

He thinks his party members are useful to him, because they give him the opportunity of more killings, gp and xp.
That's why he's pressing his chaotic and evil nature so much.

But killing them still sounds reasonable and not harmful, so, he went for it:smallamused:

The rest of the party have accepted him and consider him very useful, since they got him under control. So, I think they have a bond that partners have after a long time together, but don't know if friendship can exist between Belkar and someone else.

[Kreistor]

I tend to think that Belkar considers Roy his friend.

Belkar could, until the MoJ, leave anytime he wanted. He's chaotic, so his word holds no value. But over and over he does not take the chance to leave. When captured by Miko, he could have easily escaped while the rest of the Order went on to AC.


Roy can't quite make the mental leap to do so with so many corpses around him.

And yet Roy stands by and up for him over and over. There is no other reason than friendship. Roy acts as Belkar's conscience. Since Roy has taken up that position, Belkar has not been a murderer to our knowledge. He talks about doing very bad things, but he is not allowed to do them. Your premise relies on there actually being a body count, but as the angel shows Roy, his influence has dropped Belkar's actual evil down to very low levels. He talks about doing evil, but he doesn't allow himself to.

[Kish]

Belkar could, until the MoJ, leave anytime he wanted. He's chaotic, so his word holds no value. But over and over he does not take the chance to leave. When captured by Miko,
...he was visibly unconscious and battered worse than the rest of the party, but you presume he could have escaped when Haley--whose skill at escaping is likely to leave Belkar's in the dust--was apparently not able to release everyone from their bonds.

he could have easily escaped while the rest of the Order went on to AC.



And yet Roy stands by and up for him over and over. There is no other reason than friendship. Roy acts as Belkar's conscience. Since Roy has taken up that position, Belkar has not been a murderer to our knowledge.
Sigh. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0133.html)


He talks about doing very bad things, but he is not allowed to do them. Your premise relies on there actually being a body count,

Like this one. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0115.html)


but as the angel shows Roy, his influence has dropped Belkar's actual evil down to very low levels. He talks about doing evil, but he doesn't allow himself to.
Over the course of two sentences, you shift from "he is not allowed to" (not entirely true, but with some truth in it) to "he doesn't allow himself to" (completely untrue).

I've been here before, so I'd prefer if we could treat the arguments that murdering surrendering goblins and murdering barbarians during a test don't count as murder as stated.

[Yuki Akuma]

Roy does not consider Belkar his friend. He considers him his 'nakama (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Nakama)'.

[Kreistor]

...he was visibly unconscious and battered worse than the rest of the party, but you presume he could have escaped when Haley--whose skill at escaping is likely to leave Belkar's in the dust--was apparently not able to release everyone from their bonds.

He could have run anywhere from 205 to 248, during which he was not bound. He chose to go with the crazy paladin instead of escape to wreak havoc on an unsuspecting countryside.


Sigh. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0133.html)

No one filled him in on the rules. *shrug* Kinda dumb of a barbarian guild to think that their members are long on patience. Barbarians are inherently uncivilized.


Like this one. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0115.html)

Ah, yes, it is a heinous act to kill goblins that were participating in a plot to use a powerful extra-dimensional entity to control the world. Uh, not. They knew the risks. Belkar was merely meting out the capital punishment their crimes mandated.


Over the course of two sentences, you shift from "he is not allowed to" (not entirely true, but with some truth in it) to "he doesn't allow himself to" (completely untrue).

We have such a tremendous body count to fall back on that you need to include the killing of an evil cult of goblins as an example.

So what is holding him back? Look at all the evils he's spouted off, but never been allowed to commit. Slavery and the like.


I've been here before, so I'd prefer if we could treat the arguments that murdering surrendering goblins and murdering barbarians during a test don't count as murder as stated.

If you're so sick of this kind of argument, why not just let it go? You chose to respond to me. I don't have to take anything for granted. I especially stand very much against the concept of the killing of an evil cult of goblins as inherently evil in and of itself. Denying surrender, especially of a group you do not trust to truly surrender, is not inherently evil, espceially in DnD. Goblins are often defined as inherently evil in many campaigns. These goblins have the weight of a evil cult on their shoulders, which makes them that much more untrustworthy.

Let me put it this way...

Okay, Belkar did kill some barbarians. Murder is debatable, but I don't need to prove that it was not. What is not debatable is that Roy was not present. Belkar commits evils only when Roy is not present. You can count the killing of the guard and the provocation of Miko in this too, if you like. Roy was not there to provide Belkar with a moral compass. And that was my point. When Roy is there, Belkar does not commit evils.

When Roy is there, Belkar does not commit heinous acts like murder. The point is that Belkar allows Roy to act as his conscience. He does like to taunt Roy with minor evils (like turning a kobold's head into a salsa bowl), but this is desecration of a body, which doesn't actually hurt a living being (except for their sensibilities).

[Charles Phipps]

You could say there's a difference between comrades in arms and friendship.

[The Wanderer]

I think to Belkar, Roy is a semi-unwanted authority figure... kind of like a big brother that you resent if he's giving you orders or telling you what to do, but is ok the rest of time. (Remember that a big part of how Shojo got on Belkar's good side was by mocking and one-upping Roy).

I think that it's also an ambiguous relationship in some sense the other way as well. Roy doesn't trust Belkar, and doesn't particularly rely on him... but he does rely on Belkar, and despite Belkar's deeds and motivations, those facts do count for something. I think the comrade-in-arms comparison is one that holds water: for a soldier at war, there may be plenty of guys that you might rely upon to make sure the enemy doesn't shoot you in the back, but you wouldn't want anything to do with in peacetime. ("Believe it or not, under fire Animal Mother is one of the most beautiful human beings in the world. Now all he needs is for someone to shoot at him every day for the rest of his life" - Full Metal Jacket).

[VanBuren]

Plus Belkar has been known to admire and respect Roy on certain occasions.

A certain broken projectile Greatsword in a Bandit camp comes to mind, for instance.

[yoshi927]

Does any of party members consider Belkar anything more than attack dog? Elan is excluded, he doesn't have the mental capabilities to percieve Belkar the right way.

The point I'm trying to make here, Belkar IS not much more than an attack dog in this party, and I'm pretty sure that party percieves him as such. Heck, I'm pretty sure even Belkar sees himself as such, and I believe he is quite happy with the role. He would probably stab anyone who would try and take that away from him. Does that make Haley, V and Durkon bad(or even evil) peoples? No, it makes them SANE! Considering Belkar a friend is like... trying to get on his good side. He just doen't have it, therefore, you can't be his friend. Infact, as it was mentioned, Belkar definition of friendship is kind of broad, but I'm pretty sure none of them is the right way.



Right, that would DEFINETLY get him on her good side. That would certainly proove that he is a good person.

:roy: You know what honey, why don't you just take that files and stick them somewhere your holly light can reach them. Nobody has the right of asking me about my friends.
:deva: Ooooh, I'm sorry sir, you have just been demoted to True neutral. Have a nice day in Limbo.
:roy: .... Crap

That is out of character for him. He is LG, so it is by definition he would cooperate with her. What is more, as I already explained to you in #489 topic, Roy believes in what he is talking.

I'm pretty sure that the only one of Roy's "friends" from the party that is mentioned in this talk is Belkar, because he is the only one who could pose a problem to Roy. And as we already deduces, Belkar is not really Roy's friend.

At your script;


EXACTLY! That's why Roy's sucking up to the Deva and sugar-coating things to her point of view, and that's also why it's a stupid system for filing souls. What Roy's doing right now is shameful and dishonest, even if he's not lying. If he gets into Celestia that way, the more the worse.

And Belkar is more than an attack dog. He's a person. V protected him because of that, because Belkar is their friend. It's not a question of usefulness. If it was, they would have left Elan behind too.

Belkar is indeed "a violent little bastard", but he's an integral part of the Order. Roy knows it, but the being of pure law and good is only seeing Belkar as a walking alignment.

[VanBuren]

Actually she sees Belkar as a psychopathic mass-murderer, which is exactly what he is, actually.

[Charles Phipps]

And Belkar is more than an attack dog. He's a person.

Yes, a truly loathesome and evil person that we should thank the gods would never stoop to take orders or he'd be working for Xyrkon.

Belkar's sort of a psychotic Jayne if we use the Firefly example.

[Mordokai]

At your script;


EXACTLY! That's why Roy's sucking up to the Deva and sugar-coating things to her point of view, and that's also why it's a stupid system for filing souls. What Roy's doing right now is shameful and dishonest, even if he's not lying. If he gets into Celestia that way, the more the worse.

And Belkar is more than an attack dog. He's a person. V protected him because of that, because Belkar is their friend. It's not a question of usefulness. If it was, they would have left Elan behind too.

Belkar is indeed "a violent little bastard", but he's an integral part of the Order. Roy knows it, but the being of pure law and good is only seeing Belkar as a walking alignment.

So you're saying that it's better to send everything to hell just for the hell of it than being honest? Great, lets everybody start doing zhis. In few years Celestia will be empy, while Limbo Bator and Abbys will be brimming with souls. If Roy doesn't get into Celestia, nobody should.

I will explain it once more, since it doesn't appear you got it the first time. Roy is being honest. The fact that proves this is that deva hasn't given him any troubles so far. When I say getting on her good side I don't mean that in bad way. Unless you take that as strictly negative, which I don't. You can get on somebody good side and NOT bea suck up, and that is what Roy is doing at the moment.

V protected Belkar because she liked him MORE than Miko. If you will look at the comic where they got level up(forgot the number), you'll see that V would happily kill Belkar, and for what. For XP for scribing scrolls. Yes, Belkar definetly means something invaluable to the party :smallamused: And about Elan? They would left him behind, because he is useless. I mean, he's a freaking bard! Haley wanted to save him because she is in love with him, Belkar thought he was funny, and V and Durkon said he was loyal to their team. But the fact is, and that can't be disputed, Elan is useless, and as such, it wouldn't be much of a problem to leave him behind. Your argument doesn't hold the water.

And integral party of Order you say? That depends. If you define a psychotic halfing with stabing impulses an integral part of any team, then yes. If that is not the case, than no, by all means, no! As for seeing him as walking aligbnent, that could be another joke on Rich's part, a jab towards alignment system.

[Caractacus]

At your script;


EXACTLY! That's why Roy's sucking up to the Deva and sugar-coating things to her point of view, and that's also why it's a stupid system for filing souls. What Roy's doing right now is shameful and dishonest, even if he's not lying. If he gets into Celestia that way, the more the worse.

As I see it, Roy is aware of the fact that Belkar can be useful to him AND that it mitigates the evil he can do to the world if he adventures with Roy. The fact that Roy looks worried in the interview is, if I'm any judge, because this is the biggest interview of his life and he's well aware that the Deva may not see it the way he does. It doesn't have to be the case that he is lying or sugar-coating the issue. He MAY be, but I see no reason to believe that that is the case.


And Belkar is more than an attack dog. He's a person. V protected him because of that, because Belkar is their friend. It's not a question of usefulness. If it was, they would have left Elan behind too.


I'm not 100% sure I follow you, but my interpretation of the same evidence would be: Why would they save Belkar = useful party member; why would they save Elan = Certainly not for usefulness - he's annoying but at some level, everyone likes him. THAT'S why.


Belkar is indeed "a violent little bastard", but he's an integral part of the Order.

I'm not sure I understand what an integral part of the Order really means. Of all the members, Belkar is clearly the one that the Order could do without most. Roy could pick another warrior up in the next town. Roy hired Belkar on a whim and not through making friends as he did with Durkon.

There are counter-arguments that explain that 1) you can't find adventurers, even fighters, that easily, and 2) it's even harder to find one of the appropriate level. To which I would say that 1) it wouldn't take VERY long to find a warrior type (perhaps this one might even actually be able to track...), and 2) even if it was a level or two down, the warrior would level up faster due to the higher amounts needed at higher levels. Oh, and 3) Many parties would manage at this level with the mix they have - especially as they have a Cleric and a newly-competent Bard: it's not as if the party is all magic-users of some kind...

In addition, as people point out repeatedly on these forums, at the very highest levels, fighter-types are less impressive - better to have skills that give you spells or the ability to not be seen than to have to face your foes man-to-man, as it were.


Roy knows it, but the being of pure law and good is only seeing Belkar as a walking alignment.

I think that is the Deva's job. Everyone is supposed to love their parents, but if mum or dad is a mass murderer, you ARE supposed to be able to admit that they are evil. As someone pointed out above, we don't want to exclude forgiveness and the attempt to see past someone's sins, but I can do that without actually designating the person as my friend.

Ultimately, it seems rather as if this discussion turns on one's definition of 'friend'. If it means 'someone who's okay to hang out with and makes you laugh', then many of my comments don't hold, but if it's supposed to mean 'someone who means a lot to you and whose well-being is important to you', then I think there's some sense in them.

[thubby]

they are as much friends as a chaotic evil and lawful good person can be.

[yoshi927]

All I can say is that I disagree. I've already stated my case, and I'm not sure what I'd add to it. Well, I will say that Belkar means more to the OoTS than an attack dog.

[Moechi_Vill]

So I guess in the end: Can sociopaths have friends?

Yes! The relationships are just usually quite twisted, if not entirely fake.

For the record though, evil people can have true friendships. 'No man is good' as hath been quoted.


Do the members of the OotS consider Roy to be a friend? Probably not, but they do consider him to be 'something' more than an attack dog.
I'd like to hear what Durkon has to say on this. My respect for him is growing, unlike wid Haley and Roy. I'm not sure how I feel about Elan though, but I guess that is off the track... Ooooh, I think I like V-man better then before as well. He kewl battle-mage.

[Kish]

All I can say is that I disagree. I've already stated my case, and I'm not sure what I'd add to it. Well, I will say that Belkar means more to the OoTS than an attack dog.
I think Elan would feel guilty about leaving a dog in Lord Shojo's prison.

[Spiky]

Have NONE of the posters in this thread read Origins?

[Moechi_Vill]

I think Elan would feel guilty about leaving a dog in Lord Shojo's prison.

^^Elan isn't necessarily a decent authority on good, evil and attack dogs just because he's a judgmental ninny with charisma-based attacks who is real nice to people who are nice to him.

^Nope, most of us haven't.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

I'm not 100% sure I follow you, but my interpretation of the same evidence would be: Why would they save Belkar = useful party member; why would they save Elan = Certainly not for usefulness - he's annoying but at some level, everyone likes him. THAT'S why.

Well, Elan would be a lot more useful if he would only learn to use his spells more effectively. He has a lot of great spells available to him. Maybe working with V will help that.

[Kish]

^^Elan isn't necessarily a decent authority on good, evil and attack dogs just because he's a judgmental ninny with charisma-based attacks who is real nice to people who are nice to him.


Fill in "Durkon wouldn't explicitly exclude a dog from his list of companions" or "Vaarsuvius wouldn't set a barrage of explosive runes for a dog," if you prefer. The point is that the Order, as a whole, certainly views Belkar differently from an attack dog. Although the image of a dog in Belkar's place in some of the comics is quite a funny one--if kind of ooky (ookier) when he's hitting on Roy.

[Janmorel]

Well, Elan would be a lot more useful if he would only learn to use his spells more effectively. He has a lot of great spells available to him. Maybe working with V will help that.

He seems to be getting there. He used his illusion spell pretty effectively in the prison break and during the escape from Azure City. He has also defeated Nale a couple of times and fixed a door. :smalltongue:
I think that Elan isn't useless so much as he is underused, because the rest of the team doesn't factor his talents (and he does have some) into their plans.

Back to the topic -- I don't think that Roy sees Belkar as an attack dog. He sees him as a team-member, part of the Order. But honestly, with the possible exception of Durkon, I don't know if Roy really sees the rest of the Order as "friends," per se. They're his coworkers and his subordinates, and he has a responsibility to him. Given the nature of campaigning, they've sort of become family. But take a peek at Roy's family: I'd hardly call Roy, Julia and Eugene friends.

[VanBuren]

But with the exception of Belkar, it would seem that Roy prefers his surrogate family to his actual one, which has to count for something.

[Mugen Nightgale]

You can be good and have evil friends. Belkar is always bragging about how much he wants to kill Roy but he never tried.

[Janmorel]

But with the exception of Belkar, it would seem that Roy prefers his surrogate family to his actual one, which has to count for something.

Well, yes. But does it really count for that much? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html):smallwink:

[Nightgaunt]

Not to Meta-Game this but.

PC's hang out together, that is the nature of an adventuring party. The fact that they may not like each other is meaningless. This is a Comic based on playing as a Party. Party members play together because they are all at the table and they all made the characters they made.

Also, for those of you who think Roy is lying in these scripts, I see nothing in here that is out of Roy's role. Roy does not like Belkar, he does not agree with Belkar. Roy is willing to protect his team, but that is lawful, it doesn't mean he actually likes Belkar. All of what he said could very well be true, and I can't say I see much evidence to the contrary here.

Oh, and I am sure Evil People can have friends, I just don't think Belkar can have friends. I agree with 'V' it's just hate and lust.

[yoshi927]

So you're saying that it's better to send everything to hell just for the hell of it than being honest? Great, lets everybody start doing zhis. In few years Celestia will be empy, while Limbo Bator and Abbys will be brimming with souls. If Roy doesn't get into Celestia, nobody should.

By the way, you're the one who doesn't understand.

I said it's better to be honest than to suck up to an angel to get into heaven.