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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other (ToB) (Maneuver) Faultline Maneuver(s) for Stone Dragon (P.E.A.C.H.)



DracoDei
2019-03-07, 05:26 PM
As usual, I would especially welcome any specific suggestions for how to make my wording clearer.

Wiki-like Cross-Linking: This will be included in the Age of Warriors (Project Revived!) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581281-The-Age-of-Warriors-(Project-Revived!)), which was what inspired me to write this. Knowledge of that project is IN NO WAY necessary to understand or use these maneuvers (but it is a very good project!).

Local Faultline Builds Pressure *
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 1**, Warblade 1**, Swordsage 1
Prerequisite: None* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Initiation Action: Variable, but at least one standard action PLUS one attack
Range: Melee
Target: One Target
*If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then this grants an additional option and, technically speaking, changes the name to Volcanic Geyser Builds Pressure.
**Pro-Tip: Due to the niche nature of this maneuver it is strongly advised to avoid taking this maneuver unless you will end up having more maneuvers known than you can ready at once. Thus first level warblades and Crusaders of less than third level should avoid it.

The pressures and stresses that lead to rockslides, earthquakes, and volcanoes can build over years of even centuries. The longer the earth forebears, the greater its force can be when it finally brings forth cataclysm. You emulate this patience with all your spirit to attune yourself with the earth... truly is it said 'Beware the vengeance of a patient man. "...
This strike can be continued into the following rounds so long as you meet the following conditions:

Do not move more than 5 from the place where you first initiated it, regardless of if this movement is by yourself or others.
Spend at least a standard or full-round action each round executing it. (Note that standard actions do not increase the bonuses, they merely allow you to, say sheathe a weapon and draw a different one on two consecutive rounds if you feel the need to.)
Do not attack.
Remain in continuous contact with the ground.

At the end of any round you violate any of these rules this maneuver becomes expended.
If after one or more consecutive rounds of initiating this strike you make one or more melee attacks that DO NOT involve any other strike then this maneuver is expended and provides certain bonuses to the first such individual melee attack. Note that this can include an attack of opportunity, the first attack of a full-attack, a charge, a coup-de-grace, etc. and that it does count as this strike for purposes of the Insightful Strike swordsage class feature, warblade recovery (IE you can't recover maneuvers as a warblade the turn you use this), etc.
The bonuses are as follows:

+2 damage for each prior full-round action you spent initiating it. This bonus is capped both by +5*(I.L.+1) AND by an absolute maximum of +30.

Half initiator levels are for some characters with I.L. from non-initiating classes.


Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage
Bonus


0.5
7


1
10


1.5
12


2
15


2.5
17


3
20


3.5
22


4
25


4.5
27


5+
30


SPECIAL: If you know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or stance that allows you to deal fire damage then, just prior to dealing damage, you MAY choose to make this bonus damage fire, rather than extra weapon damage.
+1 to hit for each two prior full-round actions you spent initiating it to a maximum of +10. However, the strength of the earth is great, but not precise: This bonus does NOT apply to critical hit confirmation rolls.
If you spent at least 5 prior full-round actions initiating it then it bypasses all DR and Hardness (but not energy resistance/immunity... see below), and there is no minimum distance requirement for charging (including partial charges). Note that this DOES make things such as Shock Trooper(feat), Spirited Charge(feat), Leading the Charge*(Stance, White Raven 1) and Warmaster's Charge*(Strike, White Raven 9) possible to benefit from, even if you start your turn adjacent to your target.
*Naturally it would be an ally using these last two that would grant you the bonus.
If you spent at least 10 prior full-round actions initiating it then it does not automatically miss on a natural 1 on the attack roll.

Note that you do not need to pick and choose between these four bonuses. You progress towards them all simultaneously (up to their individual maxima).


Hovel-Leveling Quake* ?Local Quake?
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 2, Warblade 2, Swordsage 2
Prerequisite: 1 Stone Dragon maneuver* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Initiation Action: Variable, but at least one standard action PLUS one attack that is at least a standard action on the round you "release" it.
Area: Up to 30' Line or Cone
Saving Throw: Reflex Half AND Partial
*If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then this grants an additional option and, technically speaking, changes the name to Local Geyser-Field Builds Pressure.

You have mastered a technique greater than simply focusing the might of the earth into a single strike, now you direct the energy back into the earth, causing shards to fly up to strike your foes even as the earth bucks beneath their feet like an untamable bronco.
This strike can be continued into the following rounds so long as you meet the following conditions:

Do not move more than 5 from the place where you first initiated it, regardless of if this movement is by yourself or others.
Spend at least a standard or full-round action each round executing it. (Note that standard actions do not increase the bonuses, they merely allow you to, say sheathe a weapon and draw a different one on two consecutive rounds if you feel the need to.)
Do not attack.
Remain in continuous contact with the ground.

At the end of any round you violate any of these rules this maneuver becomes expended.

Each time you put a full-round action into this maneuver (but do not make an attack) you may increase the distance it will effect by 5' (starting from zero), to a maximum of 30'. HOWEVER, once you forgo this option, the distance is capped, and you may not further extend the area of effect of this maneuver.

If after one or more consecutive rounds of initiating this strike your first and only attack during your turn is to strike the earth with a melee attack (which automatically hits in this case) after moving in a reasonably straight line you release the energy into an extrememly localized but deadly earthquake. This line of movement need not be any straighter than that involved in a charge (so you do not lose your dexterity bonus to AC, as you might while running), and need not be any longer than simply lifting on foot and stomping it down a quarter inch from where it was initially placed.
Choose either a line or a cone. Both extend from you to the distance you determined above. The line, or the centerline of the cone must be aligned as closely as possible with your direction of travel on the battlemap. This means it must be AWAY from your point of origin, not pointing back along your path of travel. If you did not change locations enough to require adjusting this, you may freely pick a direction).

All structures, unattended objects, and creatures (other than yourself) in the target squares, takes 2 damage for each prior full-round action you spent initiating it, capped both by +5*(I.L.+1) AND by an absolute maximum of 40. A reflex save for half damage is allowed against a DC equal to either 12+Str. Mod. OR the number of prior full-round actions spent initiating this maneuver, whichever is LESS. A natural 1 is NOT an automatic failure on this saving throw unless you spent at least 20 prior full-round actions initiating this maneuver.

This damage is bludgeoning, peircing, and slashing. If you spent at least 10 prior full-round actions then this damage bypasses damage reduction and hardness (but NOT energy resistance/immunity, see below).

If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then you may elect to make half this damage fire, as puffs of super-heated steam and tiny bits of lava become intermixed with the exploding debris.

In additional creatures of normal stability fall prone if they fail this save. Creatures of unusual stability only fall prone if they fail by more than 4 points. You are immune to this effect from your own use of this maneuver.




Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage


3
20


3.5
22


4
25


4.5
27


5
30


5.5
32


6
35


6.5
37


7+
40





Regional Faultline Builds Pressure *
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 3, Warblade 3, Swordsage 3
Prerequisite: 1 Stone Dragon maneuver* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Initiation Action: Variable, but at least one standard action PLUS one attack
Range: Melee
Target: One Target
*If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then this grants an additional option and, technically speaking, changes the name to Enormous Volcanic Geyser Builds Pressure.


This maneuver functions in the same way as Local Faultline Builds Pressure with the following changes:


The maximum to-hit bonus is +15 and it requires 15 full-round actions (rather than 10) prior to the round in which you attack before it does not automatically miss on a natural 1.
It requires 7 prior full-round actions initiating (rather than 5) before it starts bypassing all DR and Hardness (but not energy resistance/immunity), and removes minimum distance requirement for charging (including partial charges)
The increase to damage per prior full-round action is +4. This bonus is capped based on your initiator level as presented on the following chart. (half initiator levels are an optional rule for some characters with I.L. from non-initiating classes).


Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage
Bonus


5
35


5.5
37


6
40


6.5
45


7
50


7.5
52


8
55


8.5
57


9+
60




Multi-Room-Leveling Quake* ?Regional Quake?
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 4, Warblade 4, Swordsage 4
Prerequisite: 2 Stone Dragon maneuvers* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Area: Up to 45' Line, Cone, or hemisphere.

As per Hovel-Leveling Quake except as follows:

The damage maximum is as per the following chart.
The damage gained per prior full-round action is +4.
The DC is 14+Str. Mod. OR the number of prior full-round actions spent initiating it, whichever is LESS.
As indicated above, the absolute maximum range of this maneuver is 45' instead of 30'.
Instead of a line or cone you may choose to have this strike effect a hemisphere pointing in the direction of travel. This can be defined by taking a plane (or line if you are only worried about two dimensions), through any corner of the square you were in when you struck the earth to "release" this maneuver and normal (perpendicular for non-geometery-geeks) to your line of travel. All squares/cubes on the side of this divider in the direction of your movement that are ALSO within range, are the area of effect.

Damage Table with fractional initiator level provided as an optional rule for those with an odd number of levels in non-initiating classes+RHD.


Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage


7
50


7.5
52


8
55


8.5
57


9
60


9.5
65


10
70


10.5
72


11+
75



Nation-Wide Faultline Builds Pressure *
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 5, Warblade 5, Swordsage 5
Prerequisite: 2 Stone Dragon maneuvers* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Initiation Action: Variable, but at least one standard action PLUS one attack
Range: Melee
Target: One Target
*If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then this grants an additional option and, technically speaking, changes the name to Volcano Builds Pressure.

This maneuver functions in the same way as Local Faultline Builds Pressure with the following changes:


The maximum to-hit bonus is +20 and it requires 20 full-round actions (rather than 10) prior to the round in which you attack before it does not automatically miss on a natural 1.
It requires 10 prior full-round actions initiating (rather than 5) before it starts bypassing all DR and Hardness (but not energy resistance/immunity), and removes minimum distance requirement for charging (including partial charges)
The increase to damage per prior full-round action is +8. This bonus is capped based on your initiator level as presented on the following chart. (half initiator levels are an optional rule for some characters with I.L. from non-initiating classes).


Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage
Bonus


9
70


9.5
75


10
80


10.5
87


11
95


11.5
100


12
105


12.5
112


13+
120





Mansion-Leveling Quake* ?Nationwide Quake?
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 6, Warblade 6, Swordsage 6
Prerequisite: 3 Stone Dragon maneuvers* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Area: Up to 60' Line, Cone, Hemisphere, or Sphere-With-Excluded-Cone (excluded cone points back towards where you started your movement for the round).
As per Hovel-Leveling Quake except that:

The damage maximum is as per the following chart.
The damage gained per prior full-round action is +10.
As indicated above, the absolute maximum range of this maneuver is 60' instead of 30'.
The DC is 16+Str. Mod. or the number of prior full-round actions spent initiating it, whichever is LESS.
When striking the earth you MAY CHOOSE to cause all non-magical earthen surfaces in the area of effect become rough terrain.
Instead of a line or cone you MAY also choose to have this strike effect either:

A full sphere EXCEPT the area taken up by a cone extending backwards along your line of travel. The size of this cone is greater than that of the sphere, and beyond that is irrelevant.
A hemisphere pointing in the direction of travel. This can be defined by taking a plane (or line if you are only worried about two dimensions), through any corner of the square you were in when you struck the earth to "release" this maneuver and normal (perpendicular for non-geometery-geeks) to your line of travel. All squares/cubes on the side of this divider in the direction of your movement that are ALSO within range, are the area of effect.


Damage Table with fractional initiator level provided as an optional rule for those with an odd number of levels in non-initiating classes+RHD.


Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage


11
95


11.5
100


12
105


12.5
112


13
120


13.5
125


14
130


14.5
137


15+
145




Continent-Spanning Faultline Builds Pressure *
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 7, Warblade 7, Swordsage 7
Prerequisite: 3 Stone Dragon maneuvers* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Initiation Action: Variable, but at least one standard action PLUS one attack
Range: Melee
Target: One Target
*If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then this grants an additional option and, technically speaking, changes the name to Ancient Volcano Builds Pressure.

This maneuver functions in the same way as Local Faultline Builds Pressure with the following changes:


The maximum to-hit bonus is +20 and it requires 20 full-round actions (rather than 10) prior to the round in which you attack before it does not automatically miss on a natural 1.
It requires 10 prior full-round actions initiating (rather than 5) before it starts bypassing all DR and Hardness (but not energy resistance/immunity), and removes minimum distance requirement for charging (including partial charges)
The increase to damage per prior full-round action is +10. This bonus is capped based on your initiator level as presented on the following chart. (half initiator levels are an optional rule for some characters with I.L. from non-initiating classes).


Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage
Bonus


13
135


13.5
142


14
150


14.5
157


15
165


15.5
172


16
180


16.5
190


17+
200





Thorp-Leveling Quake* ?Continent-Spanning Quake?
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 8, Warblade 8, Swordsage 8
Prerequisite: 4 Stone Dragon maneuvers* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 2 Desert Wind Maneuver and/or Stances that allows you to deal fire damage)
Area: Up to 75' Line, Cone, Hemisphere, Sphere-With-Excluded-Cone (excluded cone points back towards where you started your movement for the round), or full sphere.

As per Hovel-Leveling Quake except that:

It requires 2 desert wind maneuvers and/or stances that each allow you to deal fire damage before you can make half the damage from this maneuver fire damage.
The damage maximum is 15*(I.L.-4). For convience, a chart is provided below for initiator levels up to 30, including half-levels as an optional rule for characters with odd numbers of non-initiator class levels + RHD.
The damage gained per prior full-round action is +8.
As indicated above, the absolute maximum range of this maneuver is 75' instead of 30'.
The DC is 18+Str. Mod. or the number of prior full-round actions spent initiating it, whichever is LESS.
When striking the earth you MAY CHOOSE to cause all non-magical earthen surfaces in the area of effect become rough terrain.
Instead of a line or cone you MAY also choose to have this strike effect either:

A full sphere.
A full sphere EXCEPT the area taken up by a cone extending backwards along your line of travel. The size of this cone is greater than that of the sphere, and beyond that is irrelevant.
A hemisphere pointing in the direction of travel. This can be defined by taking a plane (or line if you are only worried about two dimensions), through any corner of the square you were in when you struck the earth to "release" this maneuver and normal (perpendicular for non-geometery-geeks) to your line of travel. All squares/cubes on the side of this divider in the direction of your movement that are ALSO within range, are the area of effect.





Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage
Bonus


15
165


15.5
172


16
180


16.5
187


17
195


17.5
202


18
210


18.5
217


19
225


19.5
232


20
240


20.5
247


21
255


21.5
262


22
270


22.5
277


23
285


23.5
292


24
300


24.5
307


25
315


25.5
322


26
330


26.5
337


27
345


27.5
352


28
360


28.5
367


29
375


29.5
382


30
390


... +1 (or with a .5 on the end)
... +15 (+22 total = +15+7)







Global Faultline Network Builds Pressure *
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 9, Warblade 9, Swordsage 9
Prerequisite: 4 Stone Dragon maneuvers* (Special Bonus if you also know at a total of at least 2 Desert Wind Maneuvers and/or Stances that allows you to deal fire damage)
Initiation Action: Variable, but at least one standard action PLUS one attack
Range: Melee
Target: One Target
*If you also know a total of at least 2 Desert Wind Maneuvers and/or Stances that allows you to deal fire damage then this grants an additional option and, technically speaking, changes the name to Large Volcanic Range Builds Pressure.

This maneuver functions in the same way as Local Faultline Builds Pressure with the following changes:


As noted above, it requires a total of 2 Desert Wind maneuvers and/or stances known that provide fire damage to allow its damage types to be adjusted.
The to-hit bonus increases by +2 for each prior full-round action, rather than +1.
The maximum to-hit bonus is +20. (However it still only requires 10 full-round actions prior to the round in which you attack before it does not automatically miss on a natural 1.)
The increase to damage per prior full-round action is +15. This bonus is capped based on your initiator level as presented on the following chart. (half initiator levels are an optional rule for some characters with I.L. from non-initiating classes). For those who prefer formulae to tables, it is simply 20*(I.L.-6).


Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage
Bonus


17
220


17.5
230


18
240


18.5
250


19
260


19.5
270


20
280


20.5
290


21
300


21.5
310


22
320


...+0.5
...+10


...+1
...+20



(Note that, like its 1st level predecessor, it only requires 5 prior full-round actions before it bypasses DR and Hardness, and removes the minimum distance on charging.)





Newer questions:
Is the new formatting of the 3rd level maneuver an improvement? The older version can be found in the appropriate spoiler in this post, but basically it listed everything out, without referring to its predecessor.

Given I removed the "Jump Start" (see below), should I also increase the rate at which Local Faultline Builds Pressure to get it back into the 5-10 rounds range that Lanth Sor suggested? Also note that I intend the time required to fully charge one of these to INCREASE as one moves down the chain although the rate of charge will only increase for damage and will never decrease for to-hit. This encourages the usage of the PCs increasing pool of resources to arrange ambushes, and eats into short-duration buffs, thus making nova-buffing for the '5 minute work day" less attractive (well... microscopically).

Is the "Jump start" of +8 damage, +4 to-hit (-2 crit. Confirm) big enough? Should it smoothly progress into the rest of the bonuses, or be a separate way of activating the maneuvers? Should I give it a completely different set of mechanical bonuses? EDIT: Removed this, at least for the moment.

Should the "no minimum distance for charge" thing apply to partial charges, or only to full-charges? In other words, how good does your ambush have to be before that bonus should be granted?

Did I need the clarification/emphasis about "still counts as a charge for ALL purposes"? Can anyone suggest a shorter clarification that would work better?

Are people remembering to consider the implications of NPCs using these against PCs, rather than only the reverse? At higher levels than this first maneuver is most relevant to Intelligent Undead could be particularly problematic I think. Many of them have the patience and single-mindedness to lay in wait around a corner (thus preventing ranged attacks from outside their charging range) for days at a time. Even a lowly ghoul that somehow acquired this could be a very scary prospect, assuming that RHD count as 1/2 initiator level progression. Fortunately, there don't seem to be many low CR undead that advance by class levels, and one equipped with a Stone Dragon Belt of even Novice degree would be unusual enough that it is the GM's responsiblity, not ours.

Should this progression of maneuvers include one at maneuver level 9?

Older questions (Still lacking any responses on most of these!) :

What do you think of the idea of cross-discipline requirements/options in general? Is the specific option it gives here interest and/or useful enough to warrant its inclusion?

This is, naturally, designed to reward good tactical planning with one-hit-kills (or at least a LOT of damage) in many cases. How far can the sequels to this maneuver go and still make this an interest challenge, rather than something that becomes boringly repetitive?
Related to this, should even this specific maneuver, once charged past a certain level, generate tiny tremors originating from the martial practitioner so that those in the know will have some forewarning?

Conversely, how many groups are actually far enough from the "kick in the door" school of play to actually use this, except perhaps for LITERALLY breaking down doors, wall, and other inanimate obstacles?

Given how well this sort of overwhelming force fits the image of a Crusader or Warblade I was actually considering breaking another convention and making this a 2nd level maneuver for Swordsages while keeping it 1st for those other two ToB classes. On the other hand, the tactical cleverness to set this up certainly fits the Swordsage, so maybe this is not the time to break that particular convention?
Actually, if "cleverness" is more intelligence to come up with a good plan, rather than "know they enemy" then a Warblade (INT based) would be a better fit for that aspect than a Swordsage (WIS based). It is probably both. Anyway, what do you think?

Given how archetypical of Stone Dragon this feels to me, and the balance concerns that some might raise, I elected to give this a pre-requisite, despite no other Stone Dragon maneuver before 3rd level having such. Was this the correct choice? Should I perhaps even bump it up to 2 maneuvers?

My current plan is for this chain to have a maneuver at every odd numbered level from 1st to 7th, and MAYBE even 9th. Again, the "slow burn" of it just feels so archetypical of Stone Dragon, and having one at 9th it would provide an option for campaigns where immunity to constitution damage is common, such as those that heavily feature undead or constructs. Are these sufficient reasons, or should I respect the "One single capstone maneuver/Ultimate Technique" convention?

Should this have sequels that just give increasing caps and perhaps movement speed bonuses* to be able to charge/single-move further and still make it to an opponent who has just detected the initiator?
What about ones that give it AoE damage (probably by striking the earth and causing shards to shoot up and damage enemies, while creating rough terrain)? In the reverse direction, should this just be made to scale well with I.L. so you never have to "waste" a maneuver-replacement by upgrading it?

*Rockslides and pyroclastic clouds can move quite fast as does lava shooting into the air (less so on the ground).


Link to my scratch-work for future maneuvers in series on GoogleSheets. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_uihxLWOXh3EoWpKKphMol7dTNEmRGTiRMwTwyi2dy8/edit?usp=sharing)



6:30ish PM Eastern, March 14, 2019:
Increased charge rates, charge starting points, and absolute maximum damage bonus for Local Faultline Builds Pressure . Added "No minimum range for charge" bonus after 5 full-rounds of charging, with additional language to emphasize that this includes for purposes outside the basic functionality of charging.
Increased absolute maximum from 25 to 30 for Local Faultline Builds Pressure .

11 PMish (of same day):
Removed penalty (1/2 to-hit bonus granted by maneuver) to critical confirmation rolls, while retaining the absence of the to-hit bonus from Local Faultline Builds Pressure to such rolls. Might put it back later.
Removed starting "boost" to +8/+4/-2 for first full-round action from Local Faultline Builds Pressure.
+8 damage if you spent at least one prior full-round action initiating it, increased by 2 for each prior full-round action after the first. The total bonus is capped both by +5*(I.L.+1) AND by an absolute maximum of +30.
SPECIAL: If you know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or stance that allows you to deal fire damage then, just prior to dealing damage, you MAY choose to make this bonus damage fire, rather than extra weapon damage. (Sidenote: I recommend having all energy damage from Martial Maneuvers count as flaming/shocking/frost/etc for purposes of affecting swarms.)
+4 to hit if you spent at least one prior full-round action initiating it, increased by 1 for each TWO prior full-round actions after the first. The total bonus can not exceed +10. However, the strength of the earth is great, but not precise: This bonus does NOT apply to critical hit confirmation rolls, and, in fact, half of it applies as a penalty.

Midnight-ish:
Created Template for future maneuvers, especially those in main series (I doubt anyone but me will want to look at it, but it is there if they do...)
Added second maneuver in main series Regional Faultline Builds Pressure.
Added optional rule for half initiator levels to template and two existing maneuvers.


March 22, 2019 5:30ish PM
Added emphasis that this works with Disciple Focus(Insightful Strike).
Started process of using "inheritance" to reduce repetition.
Reduced pre-requisites, at least for now, since many people seem to think that Stone Dragon is pretty weak at maneuver/stance level 1. This is more true for Swordsages than Warblades and/or Crusaders, but those suffer from the fact that they end up preparing all of their maneuvers known at class level 1 (and for Crusaders, 2 as well).
Put in Pro-Tip warning off 1st/2nd level Warblades and Crusaders.

6:40ish PM
Added clarifying language about energy resistance/immunity.

7:50 PM
Added Hovel-Leveling Quake. I put it in between the two other maneuvers to keep everything in maneuver-level order.
August 12th 2019 12:45ish AM
Fixed per-round increase on damage for 1st level maneuver to +2, where it was +1.



Nationwide / Continent-Spanning / Global Network of Faultline Builds Pressure *
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader #, Warblade #, Swordsage #
Prerequisite: # Stone Dragon maneuvers* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Initiation Action: Variable, but at least one standard action PLUS one attack
Range: Melee
Target: One Target
*If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then this grants an additional option and, technically speaking, changes the name to ?????? Builds Pressure.

The pressures and stresses that lead to rockslides, earthquakes, and volcanoes can build over years of even centuries. The longer the earth forebears, the greater its force can be when it finally brings forth cataclysm. You emulate this patience with all your spirit to attune yourself with the earth... truly is it said 'Beware the vengeance of a patient man. "...
This strike can be continued into the following rounds so long as you meet the following conditions:

Do not move more than 5 from the place where you first initiated it, regardless of if this movement is by yourself or others.
Spend at least a standard or full-round action each round executing it. (Note that standard actions do not increase the bonuses, they merely allow you to, say sheathe a weapon and draw a different one on two consecutive rounds if you feel the need to.)
Do not attack.
Remain in continuous contact with the ground.

At the end of any round you violate any of these rules this maneuver becomes expended.
If after one or more consecutive rounds of initiating this strike you make one or more melee attacks that DO NOT involve any other strike then this maneuver is expended and provides certain bonuses to the first such individual melee attack. Note that this can include an attack of opportunity, the first attack of a full-attack, a charge, a coup-de-grace, etc.)
The bonuses are as follows:

+# damage for each prior full-round action you spent initiating it. This bonus is capped based on your initiator level as presented on the following chart. (half initiator levels are an optional rule for some characters with I.L. from non-initiating classes)

((Worldwide Network))
Maybe list this as " (I.L.-6)*20 " as well as (or instead?) of a table.







((Generic))


Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage
Bonus


17 Should continue indefinitely... Maybe make this as an equation as well as (or instead?) of a table.
##


17.5
##


18
###


18.5
##


19
###


19.5
##


20
###


20.5
##


21
###


21.5
##


22
###


SPECIAL: If you know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or stance that allows you to deal fire damage then, just prior to dealing damage, you MAY choose to make this bonus damage fire, rather than extra weapon damage.
+## to hit for each two prior full-round actions you spent initiating it to a maximum of +##. However, the strength of the earth is great, but not precise: This bonus does NOT apply to critical hit confirmation rolls.
If you spent at least ## prior full-round actions initiating it then it bypasses all DR and Hardness (but not energy resistance/immunity), and there is no minimum distance requirement for charging (including partial charges). Note that this DOES make things such as Shock Trooper(feat), Spirited Charge(feat), Leading the Charge*(Stance, White Raven 1) and Warmaster's Charge*(Strike, White Raven 9) possible to benefit from, even if you start your turn adjacent to your target.
*Naturally it would be an ally using these last two that would grant you the bonus.
If you spent at least ## prior full-round actions initiating it then it does not automatically miss on a natural 1 on the attack roll.

Note that you do not need to pick and choose between these four bonuses. You progress towards them all simultaneously (up to their individual maxima).







Archived alpha version.

Local Faultline Builds Pressure *
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 1, Warblade 1, Swordsage 1
Prerequisite: 1 Stone Dragon maneuver* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Initiation Action: Variable, but at least one standard action PLUS one attack
Range: Melee
Target: One Target
*If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then this grants an additional option and, technically speaking, changes the name to Volcanic Geyser Builds Pressure.

The pressures and stresses that lead to rockslides, earthquakes, and volcanoes can build over years of even centuries. The longer the earth forebears, the greater its force can be when it finally brings forth cataclysm. You emulate this patience with all your spirit to attune yourself with the earth... truly is it said 'Beware the vengeance of a patient man. "...
This strike can be continued into the following rounds so long as you meet the following conditions:

Do not move more than 5 from the place where you first initiated it, regardless of if this movement is by yourself or others.
Spend at least a standard or full-round action each round executing it. (Note that standard actions do not increase the bonuses, they merely allow you to, say sheathe a weapon and draw a different one on two consecutive rounds if you feel the need to.)
Do not attack.
Remain in continuous contact with the ground.

At the end of any round you violate any of these rules this maneuver becomes expended.
If after one or more consecutive rounds of initiating this strike you make one or more melee attacks that DO NOT involve any other strike then this maneuver is expended and provides certain bonuses to the first such individual melee attack. Note that this can include an attack of opportunity, the first attack of a full-attack, a charge, a coup-de-grace, etc.)
The bonuses are as follows:

+1 damage for each prior full-round action you spent initiating it. This bonus is capped both by +5*(I.L.+1) AND by an absolute maximum of +25.
SPECIAL: If you know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or stance that allows you to deal fire damage then, just prior to dealing damage, you MAY choose to make this bonus damage fire, rather than extra weapon damage.
+1 to hit for each two prior full-round actions you spent initiating it to a maximum of +10. However, the strength of the earth is great, but not precise: This bonus does NOT apply to critical hit confirmation rolls, and, in fact, half of it applies as a penalty.
If you spent at least 10 prior full-round actions initiating it then it bypasses all DR and Hardness, except for DR/- and DR/Epic.
If you spent at least 25 prior full-round actions initiating it then it does not automatically miss on a natural 1 on the attack roll.

Note that you do not need to pick and choose between these four bonuses. You progress towards them all simultaneously (up to their individual maxima).


Archived version of SECOND strike in single-target series, made just before (starting the process of) transitioning to a version that references the first maneuver in the series, rather than repeating stuff.
Regional Faultline Builds Pressure *
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 3, Warblade 3, Swordsage 3
Prerequisite: 2 Stone Dragon maneuvers* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Initiation Action: Variable, but at least one standard action PLUS one attack
Range: Melee
Target: One Target
*If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then this grants an additional option and, technically speaking, changes the name to Enormous Volcanic Geyser Builds Pressure.

The pressures and stresses that lead to rockslides, earthquakes, and volcanoes can build over years of even centuries. The longer the earth forebears, the greater its force can be when it finally brings forth cataclysm. You emulate this patience with all your spirit to attune yourself with the earth... truly is it said 'Beware the vengeance of a patient man. "...
This strike can be continued into the following rounds so long as you meet the following conditions:

Do not move more than 5 from the place where you first initiated it, regardless of if this movement is by yourself or others.
Spend at least a standard or full-round action each round executing it. (Note that standard actions do not increase the bonuses, they merely allow you to, say sheathe a weapon and draw a different one on two consecutive rounds if you feel the need to.)
Do not attack.
Remain in continuous contact with the ground.

At the end of any round you violate any of these rules this maneuver becomes expended.
If after one or more consecutive rounds of initiating this strike you make one or more melee attacks that DO NOT involve any other strike then this maneuver is expended and provides certain bonuses to the first such individual melee attack. Note that this can include an attack of opportunity, the first attack of a full-attack, a charge, a coup-de-grace, etc.)
The bonuses are as follows:

+4 damage for each prior full-round action you spent initiating it. This bonus is capped based on your initiator level as presented on the following chart. (half initiator levels are an optional rule for some characters with I.L. from non-initiating classes).


Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage
Bonus


5
35


5.5
37


6
40


6.5
45


7
50


7.5
52


8
55


8.5
57


9+
60


SPECIAL: If you know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or stance that allows you to deal fire damage then, just prior to dealing damage, you MAY choose to make this bonus damage fire, rather than extra weapon damage.
+1 to hit for each two prior full-round actions you spent initiating it to a maximum of +15. However, the strength of the earth is great, but not precise: This bonus does NOT apply to critical hit confirmation rolls.
If you spent at least 7 prior full-round actions initiating it then it bypasses all DR and Hardness, and there is no minimum distance requirement for charging (including partial charges). Note that this DOES make things such as Shock Trooper(feat), Spirited Charge(feat), Leading the Charge*(Stance, White Raven 1) and Warmaster's Charge*(Strike, White Raven 9) possible to benefit from, even if you start your turn adjacent to your target.
*Naturally it would be an ally using these last two that would grant you the bonus.
If you spent at least 15 prior full-round actions initiating it then it does not automatically miss on a natural 1 on the attack roll.

Note that you do not need to pick and choose between these four bonuses. You progress towards them all simultaneously (up to their individual maxima).

Lanth Sor
2019-03-07, 06:30 PM
So the idea is cool, but this maneuver is functionally useless.

The bonus damage is to meager for the investment
The to hit doesn't make up for the meager damage,
You need to spend far too much time to get the damage reduction negation for it not to apply universally, and honestly its way to long to charge an attack.
You stone dragon requirements are fluffy but are just bad.
Not being able to move means you are stuck in one spot not moving, all people have to do is walk away and your entire effort is wasted.


Reduce the build up to 5-10 rounds for full benefit, at 1/2 the rounds grant the same function as mountain hammer for DR overcoming, and then you can keep the no fail on max charge. Adding a movement at the end of the charging time would make it much more useful, such as, when releasing the maneuver you may make a charge attack at your normal move speed, this charge has no minimum distance.

Elves
2019-03-12, 11:47 AM
The concept is great.

Maybe give it separate in-combat and noncombat functions. This actually gives me an idea: what if rather than making utility maneuvers a new type of maneuver, utility functions got added to existing strikes/stances/boosts?

So in this case for example, you could add a smash or charge attack, possibly AOE*, that takes 1 full round action to charge up. That would be viable to use in combat. Then it reserves its noncombat use for breaking objects. What do you think?

I'd love to see a stance with a similar theme, but where you only have to spend a move action, so that any time you stand still you start building up pressure.

*After all it's basically a double maneuver

DracoDei
2019-03-14, 05:35 PM
So the idea is cool, but this maneuver is functionally useless.

The bonus damage is to meager for the investment
The to hit doesn't make up for the meager damage,
You need to spend far too much time to get the damage reduction negation for it not to apply universally, and honestly its way to long to charge an attack.
You stone dragon requirements are fluffy but are just bad.
Not being able to move means you are stuck in one spot not moving, all people have to do is walk away and your entire effort is wasted.


Reduce the build up to 5-10 rounds for full benefit, at 1/2 the rounds grant the same function as mountain hammer for DR overcoming, and then you can keep the no fail on max charge. Adding a movement at the end of the charging time would make it much more useful, such as, when releasing the maneuver you may make a charge attack at your normal move speed, this charge has no minimum distance.

For your last point I would say that I envisioned it as being used mostly for ambushes and MAYBE very low level barrier breaking. If someone knows where an ambush is, they usually don't walk into anyway, unless it is a choke-point they can't avoid, in which case they... can't avoid it. Certainly ranged attacks from outside charging range are a reasonable counter in some circumstances, but that just means the tactical game is looking sufficiently deep to my eyes.
As for barrier breaking, I guess it lets you do it more suddenly (and doors/walls can't run away), but D&Ds rules would tend to favor just pounding on stuff usually. Wood almost certainly (except maybe for a Swordsage picking up the maneuver to round out an build that otherwise de-emphasizes strength-based attacks), stone... I'd have to run the math, and iron it might remain viable until class level 3 when one gets access to Mountain Hammer (or 4th if you want to swap out between the two without ever having a situation of "redundancy" between the two maneuvers).
Knowing you that is probably enough to say at one time.

What was your idea or ideas of how it would get used?





The concept is great.

Maybe give it separate in-combat and noncombat functions.

The "in-combat" vs "out-of-combat" distinction becomes, at best, very muddy for the most important dynamic I wanted this (series of) maneuver(s) to add to the game. I was thinking of carefully crafted ambushes, and such-like. Possibly breaking enemy ambushes and entrenchments? Anyway, the idea is that it would be charged up before initiative is rolled, but released either in a surprise round (partial charge? AoO, usually with Combat Reflexes?), or the first full round of combat. I feel like I should have stated this more explicitly, since the question of how hard those are to set up for which amount of start-up time is something I think is a brain-bending question that never-the-less needs answering.



In that case Lanth Sor's recommendation of making you able to charge as part of the attack seems important and also thematic.
I've put that in, although I have some questions about it. Repeated here from edit I made to the the "Questions I am especially in need of P.E.A.C.H. for" spoiler in the first post:
Should the "no minimum distance for charge" thing apply to partial charges, or only to full-charges? In other words, how good does your ambush have to be before that bonus should be granted?

Did I need the clarification/emphasis about "still counts as a charge for ALL purposes"? Can anyone suggest a shorter clarification that would work better?



The other seeming use for this maneuver is in a situation where you're facing "waves" of opponents, eg Streets of Blood in RHOD.
Never played RHOD, and please put any spoilers for it in... well "spoilers", since I hear it is REALLY good and I wouldn't want to be tempted to metagame if I ever get the chance to play it. I guess you could tell me (possibly in a spoiler for the sake of others) how long the duration between waves is, and if it is a set duration from when of the last one arrived, or from the defeat of the last one.


This actually gives me an idea: what if rather than making utility maneuvers a new type of maneuver, utility functions got added to existing strikes/stances/boosts?

That idea in general for utility maneuvers sounds like it is definitely worth people (not necessarily including me) looking into.




So in this case for example, you could add a smash or charge attack, possibly AOE*, that takes 1 full round action to charge up. That would be viable to use in combat. Then it reserves its noncombat use for breaking objects. What do you think?

*After all it's basically a double maneuver

What do you mean by "smash"? Bull-Rush/Over-run/Knock-Down ("Trip")? Striking the ground instead of the opponent directly, thus making it a saving throw rather than a to-hit roll?


Basically I'd recommend adding an in-combat function as well, accessible after charging for 1 round (a charge-up attack that takes more than 1 FRA is not viable in combat).
Is the "Jump start" of +8 damage, +4 to-hit (-2 crit. Confirm) big enough now that it I have doubled it from the +4/+2/-1 you said didn't measure up against Steely Strike*?
Should it smoothly progress into the rest of the bonuses, or be a separate way of activating the maneuver**?
Should I, as you seem to me to have been implying, give it a completely different set of mechanical bonuses?
*1st level Iron Heart Strike, +4 to-hit, no damage bonus nor crit. penalty, but gives opponents OTHER than the one you attack +4 to hit you for 1 round (ToB p. 69).
**And/or its sequels?







I'd love to see a stance with a similar theme, but where you only have to spend a move action, so that any time you stand still you start building up pressure.


It would also be interesting to have a stance that gave a version of the charge up benefit but only cost move actions, modeled after Blood In The Water.


IF I understand what you are saying this... could be good, although my gut reaction is negative (I try to allow logical arguments presented to me to over-rule my gut).

While I DON'T think this is what you were saying (tell me if this is wrong), when I was working on this prior to initially posting it I had actually considered making this maneuver as a Stance or Boost, to change what it could be combined with. It might still be acquired as a maneuver even if it combos as a Stance, since it is too niche to want to spend a Stance pick on.
So you get the bonus on more than one attack without it resetting after each attack, only at the end of a round you move too far (as usual for Stone Dragon stances, but with the same grace period the Strike gives?) or make a full-attack?
Or do you recommend the bonus reset once used, but you don't HAVE to use it when attacking?

For the stance, 'spend a move action to gain x (stacking) bonus on next attack'. Something for reach weapon users primarily though you can also translocate/transpose.

How would this especially help reach weapon users?

I don't like the idea of allowing [Teleportation] effects to by-pass the "can't move much" drawback of Stone Dragon. Is this even allowed in general for Stone Dragon stances by RAW, common house-rule, or your intended tweaks/erata specific to the Age of Warriors project? At higher levels it sounds like it would contribute to "Scry and Die", although the flip side to that argument might be that if "Scry and Die" is going to be happening anyway, the Martial Initiators should at least be able to have fun with it.






Would compiling some information on MM I monsters of low CR for average and maybe min/max up be good to give people (including myself) a reference point?

IMO it should be fine to just compare them to existing maneuvers. If you want to find this info I'm sure it would be useful but I don't think it's necessary.
Hard to do when the degree of set-up required to reap the full reward is so much higher in my original vision (which I am not abandoning at this time).

Well, I've done it for the MM I CR 1's. I should probably link that Googlesheet to the maneuver thread when I am not on my tablet... Will be doing this in for the first post right after I post this.

Do people think I should give Stone Dragon dual capstones, or should I stop at maneuver level 8?

Also giving the link to GoogleSheet: Faultline Maneuver Progression (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_uihxLWOXh3EoWpKKphMol7dTNEmRGTiRMwTwyi2dy8/edit?usp=sharing)


For anyone who just wants some basic information without having to deal with that format or another tab here is the current rough draft of the progressions I have in mind for the "core" (meaning non-AoE, etc) maneuvers in this series, see the following spoiler
The small paratheticals for damage represent the damage for fully "obsolete" maneuvers, while the larger numbers in the specially colored cells for damage are for if I decide to stop the progression at maneuver level 7, rather than giving Stone Dragon dual capstones.



Local
Regional
Nation-wide
Continent
-Spanning
Global
Network


Maneuver Level (Min. IL)
1st (1st)
3rd (5th)
5th (9th)
7th (13th)
9th (17th)


Damage Increase / Round
+2
+4
+8
+10
+15


To-Hit Increase / Round
+1
+1
+1
+1
+2


To-Hit Maximum
+10
+15
+20
+20
+20


Initiator Level
(Max. Man. Lvl.)
Local
Regional
Nation-wide
Continent
-Spanning
Global
Network




1(1)

10

--

--

--

--




2(1)

15

--

--

--

--




3(2)

20

--

--

--

--




4(2)

25

--

--

--

--




5(3)

30

35

--

--

--




6(3)

(30)

40

--

--

--




7(4)

(30)

50

--

--

--




8(4)

(30)

55

--

--

--




9(5)

(30)

60

70

--

--




10(5)

(30)

(60)

80

--

--




11(6)

(30)

(60)

95

--

--


[/tr]



12(6)

(30)

(60)

105



--




13(7)

(30)

(60)

120

135

--




14(7)

(30)

(60)

(120)

150

--




15(8)

(30)

(60)

(120)

165

--




16(8)

(30)

(60)

(120)

180

--




17(9)

(30)

(60)

(120)

200

220




18(9)

(30)

(60)

(120)

215(200)

240




19(9)

(30)

(60)

(120)

230(200)

260




20(9)

(30)

(60)

(120)

245(200)

280




As before values in parentheses apply if that maneuver becomes fully "obsolete". I am NOT using the special colors I did before, because the would cover most of the chart.


I.L.
Continent
-Spanning
Global
Network



21

260(200)

300



22

275(200)

320(300)



23

290(200)

340(300)



24

305(200)

360(300)



25

320(200)

380(300)



26

335(200)

400(300)



27

350(200)

420(300)



28

365(200)

440(300)



29

380(200)

460(300)



30

395(200)

480(300)

Elves
2019-03-14, 08:41 PM
What I said about providing an attack after 1 FRA was before you had clarified your intent for the maneuver. I don't think that's needed anymore. In particular because the maneuver already takes a lot of text and this would only l


Never played RHOD, and please put any spoilers for it in...
Really, it applies to any situation where you're defending or holding the line, which I think is not all that uncommon (probably at least as frequent as ambushes).

With the defensive, utility, and as you mention surprise round/ambush functions, I think there's no need to add an attack like I suggested.


Is the "Jump start" of +8 damage, +4 to-hit (-2 crit. Confirm) big enough now that it I have doubled it from the +4/+2/-1 you said didn't measure up against Steely Strike*?
Similarly, I'm going to change what I said about ramping up faster, since you clarified what the intent is. Was the original 5? How about starting at +5 damage with no prep, +2 dmg and +1 attack per full round chargeup.

I don't think an actual crit confirm penalty is necessary, it's enough that the attack bonus doesn't apply to them.



That idea in general for utility maneuvers sounds like it is definitely worth people (not necessarily including me) looking into.
Ultimately I think it's too much to add utilities to the vanilla maneuvers but I want to look into it for the new disciplines.



How would this especially help reach weapon users?
Staying in place is more prohibitive without reach.


I don't like the idea of allowing [Teleportation] effects to by-pass the "can't move much" drawback of Stone Dragon. Is this even allowed in general for Stone Dragon stances by RAW, common house-rule, or your intended tweaks/erata specific to the Age of Warriors project?
The Stone Dragon requirement is standing on the ground, so if you teleport from the ground in one place to the ground elsewhere, I don't see why it wouldn't apply? And especially since ambushes tend to take the form of scry and die surprise rounds later on, it seems like this would help it scale.

Re Errata, not planning to remove the ground requirement but will probably include a clarification in the FAQ that the requirement is only based on standing on the ground, not actually being in contact with earth/stone.


At higher levels it sounds like it would contribute to "Scry and Die", although the flip side to that argument might be that if "Scry and Die" is going to be happening anyway, the Martial Initiators should at least be able to have fun with it.
With any fan thing like this and especially in a system as idiosyncratic as 3e, it will be tempting to make the project be "fix the game". I think it's important to not let that urge take over -- this is a sequel to TOB and nothing more. In other words, yes, I think the assumption has to be that Scry and Die et al exist.

The furthest I would go toward "system fix" is to include a common-sense sidebar about choosing what tier of game to play and eg banning Craft Contingent Spell.


Do people think I should give Stone Dragon dual capstones, or should I stop at maneuver level 8?
Some of the new disciplines have dual capstone and Stone Dragon has a niche for a capstone with actual requirements. Up to you of course.


Should the "no minimum distance for charge" thing apply to partial charges, or only to full-charges? In other words, how good does your ambush have to be before that bonus should be granted?

Partial charge is so rare, only available to a few creatures, does it matter? I'm not sure the no minimum distance clause should be there though. What's wrong with keeping the min at 10ft?

DracoDei
2019-03-14, 09:40 PM
What I said about providing an attack after 1 FRA was before you had clarified your intent for the maneuver. I don't think that's needed anymore. In particular because the maneuver already takes a lot of text and this would only l


Really, it applies to any situation where you're defending or holding the line, which I think is not all that uncommon (probably at least as frequent as ambushes).

With the defensive, utility, and as you mention surprise round/ambush functions, I think there's no need to add an attack like I suggested.


Similarly, I'm going to change what I said about ramping up faster, since you clarified what the intent is. Was the original 5? How about starting at +5 damage with no prep, +2 dmg and +1 attack per full round chargeup.
Originally it was ONLY what you got for the full-round actions used, with no static bonus. In other words if y is the damage bonus and x is the number of full-round actions and using the general form:
y(x) = Ax + C
then C was originally 0.
Ditto for the equation for to-hit bonus in that same form. I did, however, double the values of 'A' for each of those.

Since you mentioned "already takes a lot of text", I'm just going to go back to C=0, which will allow me to eliminate about 20-40 words that really complicate understanding.

Now, the way you calculate the I.L. based maximum damage bonus DOES start out with C=5. Which is to say that you can get up to +10 damage as a first level martial initiator, +15 after leveling up to I.L. 2, etc.


I don't think an actual crit confirm penalty is necessary, it's enough that the attack bonus doesn't apply to them.

Anything that adds random chance tends to disfavor the players, since the average result of almost any combat is the PCs surviving (after some correction to allow for the fact that revivification spells exist for a reason). The damage bonus gets multiplied on a critical hit since it is not dice. Since NPCs can use these as well, and since part of my design intent was to render tactics more important---

Oh, wait... you said just have the bonus not apply to the bonus from the maneuver to critical hit confirmation rolls, rather than having to muck about with dividing by two and subtracting. Eh... I think I can go that far in the name of simplifying things, at least for now. Might change my mind later. One counter-point that occurs to me is that setting up this maneuver is often going to be complicated enough just from the tactics (IE "fun stuff", not "boring bookkeeping") that a bit of extra math isn't going to hurt that much, especially at the start of a combat where I don't THINK it psychologically breaks the flow as much. Consider having your favorite TV show interupted by another set of commercials, versus the feeling of having the opening credits extended by the same amount of time.

tl;dr: Yeah, I'll change that, at least for now.


Ultimately I think it's too much to add utilities to the vanilla maneuvers but I want to look into it for the new disciplines.

Well, if some disciplines are going to have them, and some aren't then there is no particular reason to restrain ourselves if the muse strikes for some of the pre-existing ones, yes?


Staying in place is more prohibitive without reach.

That makes sense in a general sort of way. I would imagine that "reach weapon + gauntlet" or the dreaded spiked chain helps even more.


The Stone Dragon requirement is standing on the ground, so if you teleport from the ground in one place to the ground elsewhere, I don't see why it wouldn't apply? And especially since ambushes tend to take the form of scry and die surprise rounds later on, it seems like this would help it scale.

There is also a clause, either in the general rules for Stone Dragon, or in most/all Stone Dragon stances that you lose the stance if you move more than 5' from where you first entered it (or maybe per round)? Of course, since I don't think Stone Dragon has any Counters or Boosts, that just means that a Stone-Dragon focused martial adept does whatever movement he needs to, and then spends his Swift Action re-establishing his stance immediately after that.


Re Errata, not planning to remove the ground requirement but will probably include a clarification in the FAQ that the requirement is only based on standing on the ground, not actually being in contact with earth/stone.

Sounds fine.


With any fan thing like this and especially in a system as idiosyncratic as 3e, it will be tempting to make the project be "fix the game". I think it's important to not let that urge take over -- this is a sequel to TOB and nothing more. In other words, yes, I think the assumption has to be that Scry and Die et al exist.

The furthest I would go toward "system fix" is to include a common-sense sidebar about choosing what tier of game to play and eg banning Craft Contingent Spell.

Eh... I have another clarification/errata/house-rule I want to suggest that I ran across the need for when I was considering various CR 1 creatures in an attempt to decide where to set the I.L. = 1 maximum damage bonus.

I'll mention it in the main thread though, rather than here.


Some of the new disciplines have dual capstone and Stone Dragon has a niche for a capstone with actual requirements. Up to you of course.

It would be so little trouble after doing the 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th level versions that I am almost certainly going to do so.


Partial charge is so rare, only available to a few creatures, does it matter?
I thought that partial-charging what what one did as a melee character during a surprise round if you didn't start out adjacent to an enemy? Certainly, taking a move action to close to melee range only to get a full-attack to the face if you lost initiative* doesn't sound like a good idea against any enemy that prefers full-attacking to charging (which is a lot of monsters). If you are in a good marching formation with your preferred weapon already in-hand, a simple move action that isn't directly about setting up an attack might often be rather lack-luster.
*Not caring about losing initiative would go along with Stone Dragon's "Slow and Steady Wins the Race" vibe when it comes to movement.

I'm not sure the no minimum distance clause should be there though. What's wrong with keeping the min at 10ft?
I think that Lanth Sor's thinking was that if you can't charge, lose initiative* and they close with you, you just lost another +2 to-hit that could have made sure that the damage bonus you sunk multiple Full-Round Actions into doesn't go to waste on an unlucky die roll. Of course, it is possible that he just misunderstood how discharging the maneuver works. It is actually sorta like a boost in as much as on the round you actually reap the benefits you aren't technically spending any actions on performing it, you just make any sort of non-strike attack (including the first attack of a full-attack) and apply the accumulated bonuses to that. It could be a single attack, the first attack of a full-attack, a charge, a move and attack, etc.. Might even be acceptable to apply it to a grapple/over-run/bull-rush/disarm/sunder attempt? I dunno how RAW would rule that, but a bull-rush or over-run would certainly be thematic. Maybe even grappling if you think of it as being buried under the weight of an avalanche.
*See previous footnote...
*Goes off to handle some laundry quickly, with intent to edit original post again afterwards.*
Original post edited, including questions and changelog.

EDIT: And made another round of edits an hour or two later.

DracoDei
2019-03-22, 06:54 PM
Two more maneuvers added since I last bumped this I think, and, in any case, I have made a lot of edits to the previously posted maneuvers.

The newest one is copied below for your convenience, especially since it goes in between the previous two maneuvers to keep everything in maneuver-level order.

Hovel-Leveling Quake* ?Local Quake?
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 2, Warblade 2, Swordsage 2
Prerequisite: 1 Stone Dragon maneuvers* (Special Bonus if you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage)
Initiation Action: Variable, but at least one standard action PLUS one attack that is at least a standard action on the round you "release" it.
Area: Up to 30' Line or Cone
Saving Throw: Reflex Half AND Partial
*If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then this grants an additional option and, technically speaking, changes the name to Local Geyser-Field Builds Pressure.

You have mastered a technique greater than simply focusing the might of the earth into a single strike, now you direct the energy back into the earth, causing shards to fly up to strike your foes even as the earth bucks beneath their feet like an untamable bronco.
This strike can be continued into the following rounds so long as you meet the following conditions:

Do not move more than 5 from the place where you first initiated it, regardless of if this movement is by yourself or others.
Spend at least a standard or full-round action each round executing it. (Note that standard actions do not increase the bonuses, they merely allow you to, say sheathe a weapon and draw a different one on two consecutive rounds if you feel the need to.)
Do not attack.
Remain in continuous contact with the ground.

At the end of any round you violate any of these rules this maneuver becomes expended.

Each time you put a full-round action into this maneuver (but do not make an attack) you may increase the distance it will effect by 5' (starting from zero), to a maximum of 30'. HOWEVER, once you forgo this option, the distance is capped, and you may not further extend the area of effect of this maneuver.

If after one or more consecutive rounds of initiating this strike your first and only attack during your turn is to strike the earth with a melee attack (which automatically hits in this case) after moving in a reasonably straight line you release the energy into an extrememly localized but deadly earthquake. This line of movement need not be any straighter than that involved in a charge (so you do not lose your dexterity bonus to AC, as you might while running), and need not be any longer than simply lifting on foot and stomping it down a quarter inch from where it was initially placed.
Choose either a line or a cone. Both extend from you to the distance you determined above. The line, or the centerline of the cone must be aligned as closely as possible with your direction of travel on the battlemap. This means it must be AWAY from your point of origin, not pointing back along your path of travel. If you did not change locations enough to require adjusting this, you may freely pick a direction).

All structures, unattended objects, and creatures (other than yourself) in the target squares, takes 2 damage for each prior full-round action you spent initiating it, capped both by +5*(I.L.+1) AND by an absolute maximum of 40. A reflex save for half damage is allowed against a DC equal to 12+Str. Mod. OR the number of prior full-round actions spent initiating this maneuver, whichever is LESS. A natural 1 is NOT an automatic failure on this saving throw unless you spent at least 20 prior full-round actions initiating this maneuver.

This damage is bludgeoning, peircing, and slashing. If you spent at least 10 prior full-round actions then this damage bypasses damage reduction and hardness (but NOT energy resistance/immunity, see below).

If you also know at least 1 Desert Wind Maneuver or Stance that allows you to deal fire damage then you may elect to make half this damage fire, as puffs of super-heated steam and tiny bits of lava become intermixed with the exploding debris.

In additional creatures of normal stability fall prone if they fail this save. Creatures of unusual stability only fall prone if they fail by more than 4 points. You are immune to this effect from your own use of this maneuver.




Initiator
Level
Maximum
Damage


3
20


3.5
22


4
25


4.5
27


5
30


5.5
32


6
35


6.5
37


7
40

DracoDei
2019-09-24, 04:41 PM
Bumping due to adding the 4th, 6th, and 8th level AoE maneuvers just now.

Elves
2019-09-24, 06:42 PM
Is there a way to condense these into three sets of maneuvers instead of 5? Or even into two maneuvers with scaling effects?



Can the wording of the first maneuver be condensed significantly? Here's my try:

Local Faultline Builds Pressure
Stone Dragon (Boost)
Level: Crusader 1, Warblade 1, Swordsage 1
Initiation Action: One standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: End of your next turn; extendable (see text)

The pressures and stresses that lead to rockslides, earthquakes, and volcanoes can build over years or even centuries. The longer the earth forebears, the greater its force can be when finally unleashed. You emulate this patience with all your spirit, attuning yourself with the earth... truly is it said 'Beware the vengeance of a patient man. "

As a standard action, you begin accumulating pressure. The next melee attack you make before the maneuver ends deals +2 damage. If the attack doesn't deal damage, this effect is wasted.

You can use additional actions to accumulate or maintain pressure. Maintaining pressure is a standard action that extends the duration of this maneuver by one round, until the end of your next turn. Accumulating pressure is a full round action that maintains your pressure and also increases the maneuver's damage bonus by 2, up to a maximum of [formula].

Accumulating pressure grants additional benefits:

- For every two full-round actions spent accumulating pressure, you gain +1 to hit with the attack that benefits from this boost, to a maximum of +5. This bonus doesn't apply to critical confirmation rolls.

- If you spend at least 5 rounds accumulating pressure, the benefiting attack bypasses hardness, and before this maneuver ends you may make one charge attack with no minimum charge distance requirement.

- If you spent at least 10 rounds accumulating pressure, the benefiting attack doesn't miss on a natural 1.

If you move more than 5ft from the place where you first initiated this maneuver or lose contact with the ground, the maneuver immediately ends and is expended.

Special: If you know at least 1 Desert Wind maneuver or stance that allows you to deal fire damage, the bonus damage granted by this maneuver may be fire damage. In this case its name changes to volcanic geyser builds pressure.

This also changes it to a boost. This lets it be applied to strike maneuvers, which I don't think is a big deal, though I reduced the max to-hit bonus to +5 as a result.

DracoDei
2019-10-16, 11:26 PM
The table really wore me out writing it. I may have left some other comments un-made or incomplete. I'll probably edit or do a second post (hopefully after you respond) with anything I missed, but for now I think it is time to finally post this thing!



Multi-Continental Damagequake or Continental Damagequake for the 8th level version maybe?
I assume that "Damagequake" was a typo rather than an intentional neologism?
Other than that, those are worth considering, but I'd be worried that the naming would be too similar to the single-target versions, and thus promote confusion in players and GMs, especially during actual combats.

Thorp-levelling doesn't sound the most climactic.

True. That definitely needs fixing.


Is there a way to condense these into three sets of maneuvers instead of 5?

Err? I suspect a(nother) typo on your part. Those happen, especially when posting in a hurry, but I don't want to assume that is the case.
This thread should contain two "sets" of maneuvers, one with four maneuvers, and one with five. The two sets share enough similarities that some people might even call them a single set, but I feel it is fairly obvious neither of us are taking that view.

Did you perhaps misremember and think that my Tiger Claw anti-swallow-whole (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140299) stuff was in this thread?

Were you intending to say that you felt the number of maneuvers in each set should be reduced? With the numbers getting so big, and fitting an exponential curve over the course of 20 initiator levels, I felt that having to swap out more often to remain really "current" would be a good thing. Even the 3rd level maneuver remains a noticeable damage boost going by the number itself far past the level where that damage caps out.


I COULD have the bonuses only improve every 2, 3, 4, and/or 5 levels to simplify said chart, but given how big the numbers get and how important the consideration of how the damage bonus relates to the hit-point totals of the CR range of monsters that the character will encounter is, I don't know if I like that. OTOH even 2 or 3 level blocks would be finer-grained than the current version which only modifies the to-hit cap every 4 levels at most, in one case 8 levels (since the 5th and 7th level maneuver both cap at +20). As for the 9th level maneuver... actually that raises an interesting point! I know Epic level play, is usually considered to be a bit of a mess, and getting worse the further one goes into it, but should the to-hit cap continue to scale without absolute limit, or not?

Actually, nice round numbers for to-hit bonuses might be a good thing, although "even numbers" would be a compromise option rather than the "multiples of 5" the current version sticks to.

Anyway, having covered the abstract concepts, here is: :



Initiator
Level

To-Hit
Bonus
/Round
Damage
Bonus
/Round
Maximum
To-Hit
Bonus
Maximum
Damage
Bonus


0.5
+0.5
(1/3? 1/4?)
+2
(1.5? 1?)
+9
+12



1
+0.5
+2
+10
+12



1.5
+0.5
+2
+11
+13



2
+0.5
+2
+11
+14



2.5
+0.5
+2
+12
+15



3
+0.75?
+3
+13
+17



3.5
+0.75?
+3
+13
+19



4
+0.75?
+3
+14
+21



4.5
+0.75?
+3
+14
+23



5
+1
+4
+15
+26



5.5
+1
+4
+16
+30




6
+1
+5
+16
+33



6.5
+1
+5
+17
+37



7
+1
+6
+17(18?)
+42




7.5
+1
+6
+18
+46




8
+1
+7
+19
+51




8.5
+1
+7
+19
+56




9
+1
+8
+20
+62




9.5
+1
+8
+20
+68




10
+1
+8
+21
+74




10.5
+1
+8
+21
+81




11
+1
+9
+21
+88




11.5
+1
+9
+22
+95




12
+1
+9
+22
+103




12.5
+1
+9
+22
+111




13
+1.5?
+10
+22 (23?)
+119




13.5
+1.5?
+10
+23
+128



14
+1.5?
+11
+23
+137




14.5
+1.5?
+11
+23
+146




15
+1.5?
+12
+24
+156




15.5
+1.5?
+13
+24
+166




16
+1.5?
+13
+24
+176




16.5
+1.5?
+14
+25
+187




17
+2
+15
+25
+198




17.5
+2
+15
+25
+209




18
+2
+16
+26
+220




18.5
+2
+16
+26
+232




19
+2
+17
+26
+245




19.5
+2
+18
+27
+257




20
+2
+18
+27
+270




20.5
+2
+19
+27
+284




21
+2
+20
+27(28?)
+297




21.5
+2
+20
+28
+311




22
+2
+21
+28
+326





IMPORTANT NOTE: I discovered that my current versions of the single-target version gives a flat +0.5 to-hit per round, rather than starting at +1 and jumping to +2 for the 9th level maneuver. The above charts assume that this was an error on my part, rather than having only the 1st level maneuver move that slowly. Regardless of what we/I decide about combining maneuvers this bears consideration. It certainly is simpler to leave it the same (0.5), but I'm not sure this is the correct design choice. I'm especially interested in feedback on this point.

Less importantly: The per-round damage bonuses might be less important than the damage caps in actual play since usually when you can do this maneuver either it will only be a few rounds before things go wrong (in which case the multiplication should be easy) or you hit the cap before "springing the trap". The exception might be time lost on buffs when you want to hit as soon as you hit the cap (I could provide a helpful column for what round it maxes out), or when you want to balance damage against time (such as when you want to hazard a guess as to the exact hitpoints of a specific barrier).

Also, I tried to avoid fractions for the most part, but for some of the per-round values I am considering them, and for the initial to-hit/round bonus I think that 0.5 is reasonable. 0.75 a few levels later I'm not so sure about, and ditto for 1.5 still later.
Again, the progressions (esp. at high levels) may not be as important to actual play as the caps.


Or even into two maneuvers with scaling effects?

I seem to remember you favoring the philosophy of some other Playgrounder on that point, namely that maneuvers should scale much better, rather than having incremental sequels you have to trade out for (a notable example of the latter would be the _______ Mountain Hammer set). While this is a reasonable idea, it is NOT the way the published ToB works. I suppose I could make an alternate version with only two maneuvers that worked like that, but I'd suggest you consider carefully which version to put into Age of Warriors. I think you (or someone else?) may have already been writing up something for inclusion in the AoW project that followed this alternate philosophy, so that may argue for "just going for it".

Coming up with a single damage formula is also hard. When I extracted how the damage should grow relative to initiator level from the _______ Mountain Hammer set I got a quadratic. Even if I rounded off the constants, that is still more math than most people would want to do even when leveling up a character, and a 20+ level chart would also be a bit intimidating. The way I originally did it was to use linear fits for the ranges that each of the maneuvers covered, but this would be more complicated to explain to a reader and also less mathematically elegant... not that most people care about that second part as much as I do.


Can the wording of the first maneuver be condensed significantly?

In an intentionally ironic phrase I use: "Brevity is anathema to me."
I don't mean that I don't WANT brevity, I just mean that I have a great deal of trouble ACHIEVING it.

There is also the fact that I don't want to compromise my vision for the sake of brevity in any given case (thus my "Director's Cut" spoilers in some of my works).

So yes, your suggestion will probably be helpful in making it briefer. Thank you, and please continue to assist me in this way if you can.


Stone Dragon (Boost)

Combining my comment with this with what you said outside the spoiler at the end.


This also changes it to a boost. This lets it be applied to strike maneuvers, which I don't think is a big deal,

I'm not sure that this actually works out by RAW, and many GMs would take that as the RAI of this maneuver as well unless we counteract that with RAW with special clauses. I am not aware of anything that say one can't activate multiple boosts a round except action economy*. As such, AFAIK the difference between a (Counter), (Strike), and (Boost) is mostly for making things easier to read at a glance when picking maneuvers, and only actually has a mechanical difference in and of itself in terms of some rare cases of (a) base class(es)** and maybe some PrCs, magic items, and feats that are slipping my mind at the moment. The difference in the roles of those maneuvers is more fundamentally tied to their initiation actions, with the tag being more of a "derived value".
*Was surprised to discover that the infamous Belt of Battle can't grant Swift action. Of course, the capstone for the Swordsage can 3/day, but I can't see that being an important consideration.
**Again, the Swordsage.

As far as clarity to the reader, I think that you might actually be correct in that a boost might be the correct choice if we set up the mechanics* allow it to combine with only Strikes. Vice-versa if we allow it to combine only with Boosts. If we go whole-hog and allow it to combo with both, then we should consider the (Other) tag, although that could have its own misleading connotations to the reader.
*Probably implicitly via what actions it requires on the turn it modifies an attack, and NOT explicitly via language such as "this attack may be a strike (or the first attack of a strike that allows multiple attacks), by may not be effected by (other) boosts, except via the Swordsages Duel Boost capstone and similar effects."
another) strike).

though I reduced the max to-hit bonus to +5 as a result.
I'm against reducing the cap on the to-hit bonus. Even +10 from the maneuver and +2 for a charge isn't enough to 100% guarantee a hit against a lot of CR 1 monsters. AC 17 is surprisingly common, as you can see by checking the last tab (use the button to scroll right through the options) of the Google Spreadsheet I created while developing these maneuvers (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_uihxLWOXh3EoWpKKphMol7dTNEmRGTiRMwTwyi2dy8/edit?usp=sharing). The fact that I even went to the trouble of looking up each of these numbers via d20srd.org 's monster filter (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20monsterfilter/) is indicative of how important I consider this factor. I think I mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: Anything that increases randomness tends to dis-favor the player characters since the usual result of an encounter is the PCs winning, so anything that increases variation tends to decrease survivability. By this measure it could be argued that since using this against a CR=APL (Average Party Level) appropriate encounter is usually a sub-optimal use of it, and since so much rides on a single dice-roll, making it easier to get "a sure thing" helps. The fact that True Strike, which gives a +20 to-hit and a reroll on all miss chances (although no damage bonus nor "nat 1 =/= automiss"), is a 1st level spell also argues for +10 being within the bounds of reason.

IIRC it is easier to get to-hit bonuses from strikes than boosts, at least within the ToB itself, and almost certainly within the AoW disciplines as well. However, see my point about how little defined mechanical difference there is between a Strike and a Boost.

To play devil's advocate to the points above, I did have some concerns about this being an instant kill if used AGAINST the players, but you said that you felt that was a GMs choice about allowing the maneuver(s) (and/or having NPCs take them?).


Initiation Action: One standard action
<SNIP>
Duration: End of your next turn

At the very least I think that "(But See Below)"*, "(Extendable)" or "or more"* should be appended to both of these, if only to avoid confusion for a first-time reader, since the core concept of this maneuver involves a huge departure from the norm as far as how long the maneuver takes to execute, with both "very long" and "variable" being in the mix.

*Possibly underlined and/or in bold.

And that snipped part:


Range: Personal
Target: You

I guess this could make sense if I/we make it a Boost?

It adds clarity in as much as you don't have to have any idea who/what or where you are going to target when you start it up, let alone have LoE/LoS. On the other hand we should keep an eye out for any unintended RAW interactions.


<SNIP>
As a standard action, you begin accumulating pressure. The next melee attack you make before the maneuver ends deals +2 damage. If the attack doesn't deal damage, this effect is wasted.

This re-introduces the C =/= 0 in the y = Ax + C equation, as well, as making the "start up" action not the same as the full-round actions required to further power it up. Even worse, it could alternatively be looked at as, making x (the number of actions you put into it) unequal for damage and to-hit. I would be willing to keep it, but only if I was convinced that my mathematical thinking style (and thus how I tend to remember and process things fastest) is strongly atypical in a way that actually makes what you have here easier to understand. It does somewhat avoid putting what the actual benefits are late in the maneuver description while also avoiding a "(see below)" parenthetical if I/we explain the bonuses before the concept of "building up pressure".

It does make it more useful to use in the middle of a fight or right before one starts in as much as you can move into a good position, and then start initiating it for the small damage boost. This sort of consideration is even more true if something like a Belt of Battle (MIC p. 73) or my own homebrew spell True Haste (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164282), gets involved in the mix, but I'm unsure of the incremental importance of this since there are probably much more effective uses of those extra actions.

In conclusion, I'm thinking I/we should make it "Full-Round Action (Extendable)" or something like that, and then explain that this counts as a round of "building pressure", or, if you tell me it would be simpler for the average reader to remember, have that first action grant no bonuses. I don't think that second option would be easier to remember/understand, but I'm throwing it out there in case I am misunderstanding how the average reader of AoW/these homebrew forums thinks.


You can use additional actions to accumulate or maintain pressure. Maintaining pressure is a standard action that extends the duration of this maneuver by one round, until the end of your next turn.

To increase clarity to the reader (both to avoid a misreading of the mechanics, and to explain why one would want to use the option), I still think my original language of (
Note that standard actions do not increase the bonuses, they merely allow you to, say sheathe a weapon and draw a different one on two consecutive rounds if you feel the need to.) should remain in some form, although perhaps as a footnote rather than a parenthetical, and perhaps removing the reinforcing phrase from the start of the sentence making it something like:

(This allows you to, for instance, sheathe a weapon and draw a different one on two consecutive rounds if you feel the need to.)



Accumulating pressure is a full round action that maintains your pressure and also increases the maneuver's damage bonus by 2, up to a maximum of [formula].

Hmm... STRICTLY speaking, introducing the terms "maintain pressure" and "(rounds of) accumulate pressure" instead of just calling them standard and full-round actions (spent on the maneuver) does add a layer of complexity, but it does emphasize what they DO, thus making it easier to remember. I still think that the first round should need to be "Accumulate Pressure" rather than a weird hybrid of the two.

(Also: Reminder to readers about the point near the start of this post about the formula for the condensed maneuvers.)


Accumulating pressure grants additional benefits:

- For each two full-round actions you spend accumulating pressure, you gain +1 to hit with the attack that benefits from this boost, to a maximum of +5. This bonus doesn't apply to critical confirmation rolls.

- If you spend at least 5 rounds accumulating pressure, the benefiting attack bypasses hardness, and before this maneuver ends you may make one charge attack with no minimum charge distance requirement.

- If you spent at least 10 rounds accumulating pressure, the benefiting attack doesn't miss on a natural 1.

Personally I'd think combining all the benefits of accumulating pressure into a continuous run of text, rather than having the damage handled for the first round and then before this for the later rounds be separate would be easier to understand/remember.


If you move more than 5 from the place where you first initiated this maneuver or lose contact with the ground, the maneuver immediately ends and is expended.

<SNIP>

This disallows charging and Move+Attack, which I don't like. Was that intentional on your part or would you have no objection to my changing "immediately" to "at the end of the round" with appropriate other changes to the wording based on that?

Elves
2019-10-17, 10:35 AM
I assume that "Damagequake" was a typo rather than an intentional neologism?

Compare "earthstrike quake" and such from TOB. I kind of like goofy neologisms but of course you don't have to and they're your maneuvers.


Were you intending to say that you felt the number of maneuvers in each set should be reduced?

Yes, exactly. I do think scaling is good, especially since maneuvers like MOPM and Sudden Leap are already being kept from 1st through 20th, but having two or three versions isn't a big issue. Having five versions for each one here seems like overkill though.


As such, AFAIK the difference between a (Counter), (Strike), and (Boost) is mostly for making things easier to read at a glance when picking maneuvers, [...] The difference in the roles of those maneuvers is more fundamentally tied to their initiation actions, with the tag being more of a "derived value".
Yeah in doing the stuff for AOW I've had to consider this; I'm aware TOB defines the types by their initiation action.

The advantage of the type tags being linked to their initiation actions is basically as shorthands: you can always say "boost" instead of "swift action maneuver", you never have to have special exemptions or anything.

The advantage of decoupling type tags is that they're generally more informative if they describe the maneuver's use: for example, does it really make sense to call my edit of the maneuver above a "strike" when it's simply modifying/boosting another attack? You could call it a "utility", but is it really a utility maneuver when it's a combat maneuver that adds damage? So I'm just not sure.


I'm against reducing the cap on the to-hit bonus.
✅ Got it.


It adds clarity in as much as you don't have to have any idea who/what or where you are going to target when you start it up, let alone have LoE/LoS.

If maneuvers follow the same rules as spells, that's not an issue anyway, since per Rules Compendium IIRC you don't need to choose a spell target until you're done casting it.


In conclusion, I'm thinking I/we should make it "Full-Round Action (Extendable)" or something like that
You're right, it's clearer if it's a full round action to initiate.


This disallows charging and Move+Attack, which I don't like.
A goof on my end. Will reword.

Alternately, if you move you could simply lose the ability to build or maintain pressure (so eg an enemy bull rushes you but on your next turn you could still make an attack empowered by this boost). To me that seems too permissive though.