Joker

[Kyberwulf]

So I see a teaser trailer or.... concept.. ? Is out. What does everyone think of it? If there is a thread about it, ignore this. I couldn't find one.

[comicshorse]

What !
(Does a quick Google check) Huh ?
(Double checks it's not April the 1st already) HUH ?
So yeah, this sounds a terrible idea. The Joker isn't just a crook the Joker is a monster. As a villain he works but as someone the whole film is based around, as someone we're going to spend most of the films time with, this sounds a really bad idea.
Not helped by the fact that the Director has mainly done unfunny comedies (Full disclosure I do find most modern comedy films unfunny)
Only good thing I can see is Joaquin Phoenix could do an interesting Joker. 'You were never really here' shows he can do dangerously unbalanced very well
But hey it wouldn't be the first time an idea I thought sounded terrible turned out to be a good film but I'm not holding my breath

[Kid Jake]

The Joker graphic novel did a pretty good job of letting him be the main focus without losing sight of the fact that he's a remorseless psychopath, so it CAN be done well. Whether or not it WILL be is a whole other matter.

[Dienekes]

The Joker graphic novel did a pretty good job of letting him be the main focus without losing sight of the fact that he's a remorseless psychopath, so it CAN be done well. Whether or not it WILL be is a whole other matter.

The Joker worked because we were in the eyes of a mobster drawn to the Joker's charisma, and it peeled through the layers of Joker's monstrocity. First making him seem like a normal thuggish crime lord, then we see him ruthlessly killing those that betrayed him, then by the time Joker has gone full psycho where he murders innocents just to sleep on their corpses the main character is in too deep.

This looks, eh. Honestly, Joaquin Phoenix portraying a psychopathic mobster looks pretty good. But it seems about as Joker as Suicide Squads. But hey, I'll watch an interesting movie even if it isn't source accurate. And I'm not getting the horrified warning bells I got with Leto, which didn't just look inaccurate it looked bad.

[Kid Jake]

The Joker worked because we were in the eyes of a mobster drawn to the Joker's charisma, and it peeled through the layers of Joker's monstrocity. First making him seem like a normal thuggish crime lord, then we see him ruthlessly killing those that betrayed him, then by the time Joker has gone full psycho where he murders innocents just to sleep on their corpses the main character is in too deep.

This looks, eh. Honestly, Joaquin Phoenix portraying a psychopathic mobster looks pretty good. But it seems about as Joker as Suicide Squads. But hey, I'll watch an interesting movie even if it isn't source accurate. And I'm not getting the horrified warning bells I got with Leto, which didn't just look inaccurate it looked bad.

True, but film is generally a less intimate medium than comics so I feel like you could get by without that extra layer of disassociation if it's done right.

I'm not especially excited for this movie so far, but I AM intrigued, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt until something too awful silly pops up.

[Cen]

Can someone provide a link? all i find on gogle is some fan made stuff.
Also - wasn't this movie dropped off schedule in january?

[Clertar]

Can someone provide a link? all i find on gogle is some fan made stuff.
Also - wasn't this movie dropped off schedule in january?

Not this one, still scheduled for October.

[GloatingSwine]

Can someone provide a link? all i find on gogle is some fan made stuff.
Also - wasn't this movie dropped off schedule in january?

The Joaquin Phoenix one is still going, it's the Jared Leto one that got binned. (DC rather overegged the pudding with Joker movies)

[Dienekes]

Can someone provide a link? all i find on gogle is some fan made stuff.
Also - wasn't this movie dropped off schedule in january?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71k-mCPT14g

[Calemyr]

The Joaquin Phoenix one is still going, it's the Jared Leto one that got binned. (DC rather overegged the pudding with Joker movies)

First off, I'm really sorry. Really, really sorry. But you egged me on.
Is it all white to scramble all but one Yolker? It's a shell of a thing to see Leto's hard boiled portrayal fall through the cracks. It could have been eggcellent. It could have been his magnus ovum. I'd be crowing about it, but I'm a bit of a wet hen about this kind of thing so at least it'll be over easy.

But, yeah... the Joker could work in a main character role not unlike Walter White from Breaking Bad, especially if you assume the Red Hood origin. Start him off sympathetic and entertaining, then slowly turn up the heat until you find yourself disturbed to realize you're rooting for a genuine monster who manages to be too fun to watch for you to turn away in disgust. It'd me more tricky to do in the timeframe of a movie, but it could work.

I won't be placing any bets on it, though.

[Psyren]

Just from that clip, he's already better than Leto's Juggaloker.

But let's assume it does well. What then? Presumably we stick him opposite some other poor unfortunate soul in a batsuit to get punched, and I think Batman could use a cinematic break.

[Traab]

I still say my idea could work. The basic gist is, we play with the jokers 4th wall knowledge. Not deadpool style where he looks at the camera and talks to us, but he understands that narrative convention is a thing, he recognizes the three act style of his film, and it drives him crazy as he is trying to find a way to circumvent it so he can WIN. The point being, he only looks crazy to his goons and everyone else in setting, WE know he is aware he is a movie character. Or perhaps more of a "Of course he is crazy, that doesnt make him WRONG though"

[Murk]

I'm fairly certain that trailer (the one linked above, which was "trending" on YouTube) is a fan made trailer. It has pieces of other movies in it, and concept clips released in 2018.

[Kyberwulf]

Yeah, it is a fab made trailer. I was asking because before this I had doubts on the look of him as the joker as well as the ... weird make up choice. After this though I have better hopes.

[GloatingSwine]

My hope for the makeup is that he starts off in the cleaner looking clown makeup and it degenerates into the more classic blank white face Joker as the film goes on.

[Iruka]

I could see this working as the slow and depressing slide of a decent but unhappy and desperate man into madness and villainy.

[Eldan]

Oh, it's a fanmade trailer? I must say, I completely bought it as a sligthly weird trailer for a movie version of Joker's origin story in The Killing Joke. Should have guessed that a real trailer would have more crazy laughing.

[Psyren]

I could see this working as the slow and depressing slide of a decent but unhappy and desperate man into madness and villainy.

Which is more or less what it should be, if this needs to exist at all. Joker's main message/conceit is that he's not that special, that anybody/everybody has the requisite capacity for depravity/remorselessness to become him.

All it takes... is a really bad day. (Which are more likely to happen in an uncaring society.)

[Darth Credence]

Which is more or less what it should be, if this needs to exist at all. Joker's main message/conceit is that he's not that special, that anybody/everybody has the requisite capacity for depravity/remorselessness to become him.

All it takes... is a really bad day. (Which are more likely to happen in an uncaring society.)

But the comic that "all it takes is one bad day" came from (The Killing Joke) clearly established that that wasn't true. He attempted to prove it by giving Gordon that one bad day, and Gordon came through it traumatized but still a good man. Even Barbara came through it traumatized but still a good person who continued to make a difference. And the scenes from him before he transformed did not make me think for a second that he was a stable person before the bad day.

[Traab]

But the comic that "all it takes is one bad day" came from (The Killing Joke) clearly established that that wasn't true. He attempted to prove it by giving Gordon that one bad day, and Gordon came through it traumatized but still a good man. Even Barbara came through it traumatized but still a good person who continued to make a difference. And the scenes from him before he transformed did not make me think for a second that he was a stable person before the bad day.

I always took it as it wasnt so much attempting to prove his theory as trying to justify his own behavior. "See? I cant be blamed for this! ANYONE would turn into a monster like me if they suffered! I had no choice or control in the matter! Im a victim! Not a criminal!"

[Iruka]

New trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41K-0y-jWkY) is here.

Well, that makes me rather optimistic about that movie.

[Killer Angel]

Oh, it's a fanmade trailer? I must say, I completely bought it as a sligthly weird trailer for a movie version of Joker's origin story in The Killing Joke.

Yeah, me too.
A really good trailer, i must say.

[ArlEammon]

Yeah, me too.
A really good trailer, i must say.

Yes I want to see the movie!

[Cen]

New trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41K-0y-jWkY) is here.

Well, that makes me rather optimistic about that movie.



Holly cow, it's good!

[Fyraltari]

Okay my hopes are up.
Is this supposed to be in continuity with the DCEU? Are we ignoring Leto’s Joker from now on?


I always took it as it wasnt so much attempting to prove his theory as trying to justify his own behavior. "See? I cant be blamed for this! ANYONE would turn into a monster like me if they suffered! I had no choice or control in the matter! Im a victim! Not a criminal!"

Yep, Batman says as much:
Joker tried to prove everybody was as ugly as he is deep down by targeting the most incorruptible person in Gotham but he’s wrong. Which is why I don’t like the interpretation that the last panel means Batman strangled him. I prefer to see it as a copy of the first panel, signifying that they are trapped in a reoccurring cycle.

[Olinser]

OK put me in the camp of, "Thought this was a TERRIBLE idea until they saw the full trailer, and now definitely plan to see".

I dunno about the movie, but Joaquin Pheonix KILLED it in that trailer. That was one of the best trailers I've seen this year.

[Traab]

I dont approve. The Joker isnt supposed to have an origin story. The only way this could possibly work is if its like, three movies in one. Three different origins, no way to tell for sure which is real, or indeed, if any of them are. Its one of his defining characteristics that his past is a mystery. Not even batman is able to figure out for sure who he is or where he came from or how he became the joker. I would REALLY like it if we had three different short origins here. Very different ones. Go with the keaten verse style joker, this version, then something else. Make this version the last story and after each one we see he is telling this to another psychologist, after this one we see this is the joker talking to dr quinzel, its the start of his seduction/mind games with her. A great way to tie him into the soon to be rebooted suicide squad universe.

[GloatingSwine]

Okay my hopes are up.
Is this supposed to be in continuity with the DCEU? Are we ignoring Leto’s Joker from now on?


The DCEU has been quietly taken out and shot. DC are focusing on individual films with no overall continuity now.

[JoshL]

I've been ignoring Leto's Joker since he sang for The Prodigy (RIP Keith Flint).

Seriously though, count me in the "didn't think I cared but boy that trailer looks interesting" camp.

[ben-zayb]

Trailer is... Wow.

I hope the movie will live up to the hype of the trailer. More Aquaman/Shazam/WW and less Suicide Squad.

Also, this reminds me of Logan for some reason. More of a character-driven story under the trappings of a comic book movie.

The Joaquin Phoenix one is still going, it's the Jared Leto one that got binned. (DC rather overegged the puddin' with Joker movies)Fixed that bit for you.

[Telonius]

I dont approve. The Joker isnt supposed to have an origin story. The only way this could possibly work is if its like, three movies in one. Three different origins, no way to tell for sure which is real, or indeed, if any of them are. Its one of his defining characteristics that his past is a mystery. Not even batman is able to figure out for sure who he is or where he came from or how he became the joker. I would REALLY like it if we had three different short origins here. Very different ones. Go with the keaten verse style joker, this version, then something else. Make this version the last story and after each one we see he is telling this to another psychologist, after this one we see this is the joker talking to dr quinzel, its the start of his seduction/mind games with her. A great way to tie him into the soon to be rebooted suicide squad universe.

If they wanted to be really brave they'd do it Clue-style, and release different endings to different theaters; then sit back and watch chaos envelope the internet as all of the fans argue over which one is canon.

[Cikomyr]

I just wish they don't make the Joker too sympathetic.

He should be.. A monster

[ArlEammon]

I just wish they don't make the Joker too sympathetic.

He should be.. A monster

He can be both.

[Traab]

If they wanted to be really brave they'd do it Clue-style, and release different endings to different theaters; then sit back and watch chaos envelope the internet as all of the fans argue over which one is canon.

That would be so epic and easy to arrange considering the stranglehold control the studios have over what the theater gets. The funny thing is, something that innovative would likely cause an explosion in popularity if it was done well. (It wont matter if they have 20 versions if they all stink) It would be daring, and innovative, and cause all sorts of word of mouth and interest. So much discussion behind the meaning of the multiple versions would help to increase its renown and give it a real base to work from for future films. And it would be the perfect way to display the "origin" of the joker. Its all a mystery, and to him its all a joke.

[Wraith]

I was wary of a Joker movie. I was firmly in the camp that said, explaining too much about the Joker would damage his mystique, and that he's better off just being a monstrous force of nature, rather some schmuck driven insane by losing his job, getting kicked out of his apartment and having one too many arguments with his neighbour.

But then a friend pointed out to me: This could be DC's version of Falling Down, and all of a sudden I am completely behind that idea if it's done well, and the trailer looks like it could be done VERY well. I remain cautiously optimistic.


And it would be the perfect way to display the "origin" of the joker. Its all a mystery, and to him its all a joke.

Another thing that the same friend suggested, is that the whole movie could be set as the Joker telling his story in flashback to some wretched victim, but we only find that out at the very end of the movie when he turns to his next victim and starts telling a different story - playing up the "multiple choices" aspect that Heath Ledger's Joker made so popular. Either form would be great, or even both - DC's take on Rashemen to tell a DC take on Falling Down. There's a lot of ways they could go with this to make it really good.

[Traab]

I was wary of a Joker movie. I was firmly in the camp that said, explaining too much about the Joker would damage his mystique, and that he's better off just being a monstrous force of nature, rather some schmuck driven insane by losing his job, getting kicked out of his apartment and having one too many arguments with his neighbour.

But then a friend pointed out to me: This could be DC's version of Falling Down, and all of a sudden I am completely behind that idea if it's done well, and the trailer looks like it could be done VERY well. I remain cautiously optimistic.



Another thing that the same friend suggested, is that the whole movie could be set as the Joker telling his story in flashback to some wretched victim, but we only find that out at the very end of the movie when he turns to his next victim and starts telling a different story - playing up the "multiple choices" aspect that Heath Ledger's Joker made so popular. Either form would be great, or even both - DC's take on Rashemen to tell a DC take on Falling Down. There's a lot of ways they could go with this to make it really good.

Dont get me wrong, I loved Falling Down. I was young when I watched it but its still stuck in my head a couple decades later, but while there is an appeal to seeing how that "one bad day" can break anyone, I just feel like the Joker shouldnt be demystified like this. A large part of him is the mystery, we all know the general background of people like two face, or poison ivy. Their backgrounds are what motivate them against batman and gotham as a whole. The joker is just chaos made flesh. He is out for the lulz and he finds some awful things funny. His background doesnt matter because we arent supposed to relate to him like we do harvey dent, or pamela isley, or harley quinn. He isnt supposed to have a justification for his behavior. (Im not claiming the others are blameless because of their motivation, im just saying they have a reason to be as they are)

[Blackhawk748]

New trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41K-0y-jWkY) is here.

Well, that makes me rather optimistic about that movie.

I was catuois when I heard this, but I like the direction they seem to be going. Phoenix looks like the joker, he's got the long and very expressive face and his hair is styled just right. So that makes me happy. On top of this, the guy can do a pretty good crazy laugh.

And to cap it all off they seem to be going with the "One Bad Day" style of Joker with the costuming seeming to be from The Animated Series, which makes me very, very happy as I've always considered it to be his best costume. Kinda miss the hat he used to wear though.

All in all I'm actually reasonably optimistic about this one, looks like they have a good actor with a solid director behind this if the trailer is anything to go by.

Edit: Can I get a MR. Freeze movie up in here please?

[Calemyr]

Worth noting that they could easily do a multiple choice past with one simple post credits scene: a psychologist (Harleen Quinzel?) is consulting with the Joker, with the movie presented as the story he told the psychologist (not unlike Iron Man 3 being a story Tony was telling to Bruce). Psychologist then notes with a mixture of amusement and frustration: "Funny, that's not the story you told the last guy." Joker grins audaciously at the camera and cut to black.

[Olinser]

Worth noting that they could easily do a multiple choice past with one simple post credits scene: a psychologist (Harleen Quinzel?) is consulting with the Joker, with the movie presented as the story he told the psychologist (not unlike Iron Man 3 being a story Tony was telling to Bruce). Psychologist then notes with a mixture of amusement and frustration: "Funny, that's not the story you told the last guy." Joker grins audaciously at the camera and cut to black.

They've already said this Joker movie is not in the 'main' DCEU universe, so we actually are at multiple choice past. This one is different from Suicide Squad, which they've already explicitly said is different from Dark Knight joker.

[Calemyr]

So rather than multiple choice pasts, we've got multiple choice Jokers?

[Fyraltari]

Isn't that what's going on in the comics at the moment?

[Dragonus45]

Isn't that what's going on in the comics at the moment?

I don’t think they ever properly followed up on that.

[The Glyphstone]

They've already said this Joker movie is not in the 'main' DCEU universe, so we actually are at multiple choice past. This one is different from Suicide Squad, which they've already explicitly said is different from Dark Knight joker.

At this point I'm wondering if Suicide Squad 2 will be in the same universe as Suicide Squad 1 - it's confirmed as 'not a sequel'. The only returning Squad members will be Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn and Jai Courtney's Captain Boomerang, though at least they are keeping Viola Davis as Amanda Waller.

[Traab]

At this point I'm wondering if Suicide Squad 2 will be in the same universe as Suicide Squad 1 - it's confirmed as 'not a sequel'. The only returning Squad members will be Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn and Jai Courtney's Captain Boomerang, though at least they are keeping Viola Davis as Amanda Waller.

Its being called basically a reboot. So its like how the first trilogy of spiderman movies is not official to the marvel universe. Im thinking of it like them saying, "Sorry, that one was a mulligan, here is suicide squad for realsies this time"

*EDIT* Btw, I still think that if DC wants a cinematic universe, they might want to consider doing the reverse of marvel. Instead of putting together the justice league, they should focus on the bad guys. We dont see batman solving the mystery and coming up with a plan, we see the joker running his scheme start to finish only to have batman bust through the skylight and thwart him. We dont see superman trying to track down lex luthors latest scheme, we see luthor running the scheme, making his under the table military deal then authorizing the use of his mech suit to fight superman when he shows up to ruin things. I think making bad guy centric films would be enough of a difference to give dc something unique. Its not like you cant go with the league of villains route either. Its hardly unknown to the dc comics for bad guys to link up in various stories. It could even get really in depth in a single setting. After all, luthor has partnered with multiple members of supermans rogues gallery, braniac, parasite, metallo, the list goes on.

[GloatingSwine]

Isn't that kind of the idea Sony were going to do but with Spider-Man villains, whilst Spidey is in the MCU?


Anyway, I'm not so sure I buy into the idea that a Joker movie that provides an origin story necessarily "demystifies" the Joker because it isn't an attempt to present a definitive "this is the real Joker" story.

It's a Joker, and we've had four cinematic Jokers now including this one*, all different, all highly memorable, and three of them even for the right reason.

This is not likely to supplant other Jokers as the "real" one, because Joker is one of the most variably presented characters in cinema and TV. Moreso even than Batman himself.



* Seven if you count the animated one, the one in Gotham, and the old TV series one.

[Traab]

Isn't that kind of the idea Sony were going to do but with Spider-Man villains, whilst Spidey is in the MCU?


Anyway, I'm not so sure I buy into the idea that a Joker movie that provides an origin story necessarily "demystifies" the Joker because it isn't an attempt to present a definitive "this is the real Joker" story.

It's a Joker, and we've had four cinematic Jokers now including this one*, all different, all highly memorable, and three of them even for the right reason.

This is not likely to supplant other Jokers as the "real" one, because Joker is one of the most variably presented characters in cinema and TV. Moreso even than Batman himself.



* Seven if you count the animated one, the one in Gotham, and the old TV series one.

Too be fair we also got an origin for the keaton joker with his whole being a gangster, falling into the vat, etc. It wasnt a COMPREHENSIVE back story, but it was more than we usually get.

[Lemmy]

I expected nothing good from this movie... But the trailer actually got me interested.

DCEU is kinda getting a "soft reboot" anyway, so it's good thing to see Letto's joker gone.

[Jothki]

I've assumed that the reason that the Joker doesn't have an origin story is that his actual origin is actually kind of pathetic, and he's doing his whole "everything is a joke" shtick as a defense mechanism for his inability to cope with the person he was (as well as the person he's become).

[ArlEammon]

I've assumed that the reason that the Joker doesn't have an origin story is that his actual origin is actually kind of pathetic, and he's doing his whole "everything is a joke" shtick as a defense mechanism for his inability to cope with the person he was (as well as the person he's become).

imho, the thing with The Joker being an actual sympathetic, or at least pitiable figure is that although we do feel sorry for him, we know there is no excuse for his behavior, so it's even more tragic.

[Lacuna Caster]

The Joker worked because we were in the eyes of a mobster drawn to the Joker's charisma, and it peeled through the layers of Joker's monstrocity. First making him seem like a normal thuggish crime lord, then we see him ruthlessly killing those that betrayed him, then by the time Joker has gone full psycho where he murders innocents just to sleep on their corpses the main character is in too deep.

I was wary of a Joker movie. I was firmly in the camp that said, explaining too much about the Joker would damage his mystique, and that he's better off just being a monstrous force of nature, rather some schmuck driven insane by losing his job, getting kicked out of his apartment and having one too many arguments with his neighbour.

But then a friend pointed out to me: This could be DC's version of Falling Down, and all of a sudden I am completely behind that idea if it's done well, and the trailer looks like it could be done VERY well. I remain cautiously optimistic.
The Killing Joke is terrible and I pretty much hate the "One Bad Day" conception of the Joker's origins. (Mostly because it's a lie- psychopathy is around 70% driven by genetic factors.)

With that said, there's no reason, in principle, why Lee and Azzarello's Joker couldn't work on the big screen. "To mock you" would probably get a terrific delivery.

[Frozen_Feet]

Is Joker a psychopath, though? Comic book characters are only marginally more plausible psychologically than they are physically.

[Beer Baron]

Too bad all the DC movies in recent years have sucked tremendously.

[Lacuna Caster]

Is Joker a psychopath, though? Comic book characters are only marginally more plausible psychologically than they are physically.
Granted, but in terms of behaviour he does tick most of the boxes. (The Lee and Azzarello version does at least hint at some kind of tortured background, but it's much better handled than in the Killing Joke.)


Too bad all the DC movies in recent years have sucked tremendously.
Wonder Woman was excellent, Shazam was pretty fun, and it looks like audiences didn't hate Aquaman. It doesn't have to suck, I guess.

[Olinser]

Too bad all the DC movies in recent years have sucked tremendously.

What? They're at 3 out of 4 of their last movies being good to great (Wonder Woman great, Shazam pretty good, and Aquaman good) with Justice League being mediocre but watchable. They haven't made a bad movie in a while now.

[Narkis]

The Killing Joke is terrible and I pretty much hate the "One Bad Day" conception of the Joker's origins. (Mostly because it's a lie- psychopathy is around 70% driven by genetic factors.)

But that's what's great about The Killing Joke. Yes, it's a lie. It's a lie Joker tells himself, as well as others. His motivation in that entire plot is to drive commissioner Gordon insane and prove once and for all that every man is "one bad day" from being a Joker. But he fails. Commissioner Gordon is shaken, but still very much sane and with no change to his morality. Joker's point is refuted in the most devastating (for him) way. Joker refuses to accept it, but the evidence is right there.

[Lacuna Caster]

But that's what's great about The Killing Joke. Yes, it's a lie. It's a lie Joker tells himself, as well as others. His motivation in that entire plot is to drive commissioner Gordon insane and prove once and for all that every man is "one bad day" from being a Joker. But he fails. Commissioner Gordon is shaken, but still very much sane and with no change to his morality. Joker's point is refuted in the most devastating (for him) way. Joker refuses to accept it, but the evidence is right there.
That's a much more interesting take, but I don't see any indication that Joker's own backstory is a fabrication or false memory, or that he had any particularly dark impulses prior to his wife's death, et cetera. It just feels very perfunctory.

[Traab]

That's a much more interesting take, but I don't see any indication that Joker's own backstory is a fabrication or false memory, or that he had any particularly dark impulses prior to his wife's death, et cetera. It just feels very perfunctory.

The thing is, he has a LOT of backstories. There is no way of telling which is real or if any are. Its not just retcons or things like the nu 52 or whatever, his backstory is totally unknown and nothing can be confirmed. He also is well established at messing with people through lies and manipulation

[Narkis]

That's a much more interesting take, but I don't see any indication that Joker's own backstory is a fabrication or false memory, or that he had any particularly dark impulses prior to his wife's death, et cetera. It just feels very perfunctory.

Let me transcribe some dialogues from The Killing Joke that I think point to that direction:

First, the moment when Batman finds the Commissioner:

Gordon: "He... He shot Barbara. Showed me ph-photographs... He tried to drive me mad"

Batman: "Listen, the police are following right behind me... I'll stay here with you until they arrive."

G: "No! No, I'm okay! You have to go after him! I want him brought in... and I want him brought in by the book!"

B: "I'll do my best."

G: "By the book, you hear? We have to show him! We have to show him that our way works!"

Batman then goes after the Joker, and we have this wonderful villain's monologue:

Joker: "So... I see you received the free ticket I sent you. I'm glad. I did so want you to be here."

"You see, it doesn't matter if you catch me and send me back to the asylum... Gordon's been driven mad. I've proved my point."

"I've demonstrated there's no difference between me and everyone else! All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day"

"You had a bad day once, am I right? I know I am. I can tell. You had a bad day and everything changed. Why else would you dress up like a flying rat?"

"You had a bad day, and it drove you as crazy as everybody else... Only you won't admit it! You have to keep pretending that life makes sens, that there's some point to all this struggling!"

"God you make me want to puke."

"I mean, what is it with you? What made you what you are? Girlfriend killed by the mob, maybe? Brother carved up by some mugger? Something like that, I bet. Something like that..."

"Something like that happened to me, you know. I... I'm not exactly sure what it was. Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another..."

"If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice! Ha ha ha!"

(bolding mine) Batman later tries to use the Commissioner's continued sanity in an effort to prove to Joker that he's wrong, uniquely insane, and should seek therapy. The Joker of course won't budge. But it's clear: The Commissioner didn't crack. The Joker did. And the Joker's past isn't narrated to us by any omniscient narrator. The flashbacks are all Joker's memories, brought forth by something vaguely related in the present. The same Joker who admits "sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another...".

[ArlEammon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diedt71QXMk

So this is interesting. I don't know much about Red Skull other than that he's a Nazi or something.

[Dienekes]

The Killing Joke is terrible and I pretty much hate the "One Bad Day" conception of the Joker's origins. (Mostly because it's a lie- psychopathy is around 70% driven by genetic factors.)

That’s... the point of The Killing Joke. Gordon doesn’t break. It’s kinda the climax of the story.

[Jeivar]

I just watched the trailer.

Holy hell. This looks good.

EDIT: Does anyone have any idea why it is being set in 1981? Why do a period piece?

Also, going by Joaquin Phoenix's real age his Joker would be circa 65 years old when tangling with Batman.

[Olinser]

I just watched the trailer.

Holy hell. This looks good.

EDIT: Does anyone have any idea why it is being set in 1981? Why do a period piece?

Also, going by Joaquin Phoenix's real age his Joker would be circa 65 years old when tangling with Batman.

Because the kid is Bruce Wayne. They're leaving themselves an opening to carry Phoenix over to the DC universe at large if he does well, and they couldn't realistically do that if they set it in 2020 with Bruce still a kid.

[Peelee]

Because the kid is Bruce Wayne. They're leaving themselves an opening to carry Phoenix over to the DC universe at large if he does well, and they couldn't realistically do that if they set it in 2020 with Bruce still a kid.

If they want to carry it over to modern-day, mid-life-crisis Batman vs geriatric Joker doesn't really seem like it would be terribly gripping.

[Jeivar]

Because the kid is Bruce Wayne. They're leaving themselves an opening to carry Phoenix over to the DC universe at large if he does well, and they couldn't realistically do that if they set it in 2020 with Bruce still a kid.

They could readily get around that by just not having kid-Bruce. Also, I hear this is going to be a true standalone.

[Noldo]

EDIT: Does anyone have any idea why it is being set in 1981? Why do a period piece?

My sinister and cynical view is that they are doing a period piece so that they can show smoking on screen while it does not seem out of place.

[Olinser]

They could readily get around that by just not having kid-Bruce. Also, I hear this is going to be a true standalone.

Well, they say its a standalone now. But if its successful I guarantee they'll bring him over to the DC universe. Joker is the single most popular Batman villain by a WIDE margin, and Jared Leto's take wasn't very well received. If they have a hit Joker they'll almost certainly transplant him to the main DCU.

It really wouldn't be that hard to do. We've already got Wonder Woman being hundreds of years old, gods existing, and all but explicit magic. There's plenty of DC canonical stuff that could get around the 'Joker was already old in 1981' problem with no big issues.

[Fyraltari]

If they want to carry it over to modern-day, mid-life-crisis Batman vs geriatric Joker doesn't really seem like it would be terribly gripping.

Batman is already supposed to have most of his career behind him in the DCEU, so the age would fit.

As for Joker, spending on what they are going with he could age slower than regular folks. And there’s always the Lazarus Pit.

[Jeivar]

My sinister and cynical view is that they are doing a period piece so that they can show smoking on screen while it does not seem out of place.

Going to the effort of having period-accurate technology, cars, clothes and whatnot just to indulge someone's smoking fetish seems really odd.

[Noldo]

Going to the effort of having period-accurate technology, cars, clothes and whatnot just to indulge someone's smoking fetish seems really odd.

I have just noticed that prevalence of smoking in any periodic pieces set during times when smoking actually was typical in public - and considering how much the industry has historically invested in PR, I am not willing to dismiss such thought right away. But bring your own tin foil.

[Peelee]

Batman is already supposed to have most of his career behind him in the DCEU, so the age would fit.

As for Joker, spending on what they are going with he could age slower than regular folks. And there’s always the Lazarus Pit.

I chafe at that thought, if only because Ra's al Ghul is my favorite Batman villain.

[Palanan]

watched the trailer. eh.



If you really love Joker…then maybe. Not being much of a DC fan, I’ll pass.

[Fyraltari]

I chafe at that thought, if only because Ra's al Ghul is my favorite Batman villain.

So? Other people have used his pit before, like the Riddler.

[Kyberwulf]

Huh, even as a Kid I always thought Joker was older then Batman. I always figured he was at least 10 to 1 years older then him. Even before the Tim Burton movie. It MIGHT have been cause I watched the 60's show, and say the 'stache….and just assumed facial hair meant old man. lol

[Aotrs Commander]

You know, from clicking the link someone posted up-thread, I'm pretty sure I watched the same trailer as you guys (at the cinema, before Endgame), but my reaction was "oh dear frag, not only did someone think a Joker story was a good idea, but they're doing an ORIGIN with it, and my lichemaster that looks dreadful."

(Well, okay, my reactuon was "the hell is this crap and what's this doing before Endgame? Hang on, what...? No. No, this can't be... Oh dear Lichemaster, it is, oh dear.")

I mean, I guess I'm not the target audience for this, but...

...

Sod his age, they should have had Mark Hamill's Joker. THAT, now, I would be interested in.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander
...they should have had Mark Hamill's Joker.

So much this.

[ben-zayb]

Sod his age, they should have had Mark Hamill's Joker. THAT, now, I would be interested in.
Not really about the age for me. I'm just not sure if his Joker acting would be just as good as his Joker voice acting. I've seen him as the Trickster and I'm just... whelmed.

[GloatingSwine]

Also he doesn't do the Joker voice any more anyway, because it's hell on his vocal cords.

[Aotrs Commander]

Also he doesn't do the Joker voice any more anyway, because it's hell on his vocal cords.

Did he decide that, like in the last year or something, because he's done it recently, even more so than Justice League Action (he apparently did it in last years LEGO DC Super Villains)...?