Monkey Paw Wishes - creative brainstorming

[GriffinAlden]

Hello Everybody,

a Character got his hand on a literal monkey paw. He does not know any story about it. He only knows that the thing grants him 3 wishes and that he has to be careful when wording wishes in general.
Now he thinks about making the following wishes:

1. I <name> wish that all memories <name> (point at target) has, will be in my head, in addition to my own.

2. I <name> wish that everybody who knows him (point at target), will have their memories altered in a way that they recognize and accept me as him.

Now I’m asking you for creative input. How can these wishes backfire, how can they go astray, how can they make this character curse the paw?


Context:
We are in Waterdeep and this Character tries to take the place of a Nobleman, the first son and hair of the Margaster Family.
He has no evil intend, he fully believes that he is the original and the other is an imposter. Now he thinks about trying the same kind of magic he believes the other guy must have used long ago to take his place.

[Unoriginal]

If he does the second, then he'll erase his own memories. Making him basically a mental clone of the NPCs.

[nickl_2000]

I could see #1 possibly giving you multiple personality disorder since you are effectively now both yourself and that person.

[JackPhoenix]

The first one sounds like a good way to drive himself crazy, as he'll get two sets of (possibly conflicting) memories. Many people have enough trouble remembering one life's worth of stuff.

[Arcangel4774]

The order is important. By having all the other guys memories he now knows him better than anyone else would. He is now part of the "everybody" and believes that he is the other guy and that his original memories are the added ones.

[Ventruenox]

Reposting from a relevant thread two years ago on the Wish spell. It ties to an old Dragon magazine article from when Gygax was still slinging dice. Please pardon or ignore the 1st edition jargon.

The General Principles of a Wish

I: Wishes are 9th level magic spells and are limited in power accordingly...
There is no such thing in the AD&D™ rules as a 10th-level spell, or any form of magical energy which is more potent than a 9th-level spell. If a Wish was unlimited in power, it would be theoretically possible for it to have the energy of a 10th-level spell — but then the Wish spell itself would have to be considered a 10th-level spell, and that is a contradiction. Using the same reasoning, a Limited Wish is limited in scope and power to what can be accomplished with the energy of a 7th-level spell. In addition to these general limitations, there are specific instances cited in the AD&D rules where the use of a Wish is impossible or ineffective.

II: Wishes cannot change what has already happened, but they can be used to alter or negate the result of some prior happening.
If, for example, someone has been disintegrated, nothing short of divine intervention can change that fact: he has been disintegrated. The result of this occurrence, however, can be nullified by a Wish which causes the body of the victim to be reintegrated (see Principle VIII).

III: Wishes can not directly affect that which will happen, except in the sense that everything that will happen is a direct result of what is and has been happening.
A Wish has no real power to affect anything except at the precise moment it is uttered (see Principle II). Therefore, a Wish for a specific occurrence or situation to come about in the future — but not at the time the Wish is actually made — would have the effect of placing the wisher in circumstances at the present time that would most possibly bring about the desired end after the passage of the intervening time, but would not and could not constitute a guarantee that the desired event will happen.

IV: Wishes are bound by the laws under which they themselves are brought and used.
In most AD&D universes, this will mean that a Wish cannot make something out of nothing or vice versa. For the creation of food, water, soft goods and other such items, raw materials (carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen) are usually available in abundance. However, the creation of a certain amount of iron, copper, gold, platinum, or other valuable materials is much more difficult because of the relative scarcity of such items. In any event, the creation of a quantity of material which is greater in mass than the spellcaster or wisher will be considered much more complex and energy-draining than the alternative of teleporting the wisher to the desired substance or vice versa (see Principle VI). For purposes of this determination, all magical items and all living beings (with the exception of the character using the Wish) are considered to be of infinite mass; that is, the creation of such items by a Wish is essentially impossible, since the energy of a Wish is not also infinite.

V: Wishes have no power or authority over the abstract, the insubstantial, or non-concrete.In particular, a Wish cannot grant ownership, titles, or other stations which require an authority to confer them upon someone else. Nor can they remove such titles and privileges, either from the wisher or others. If a Wish deals wholly or primarily with abstract, intangible considerations, there can be no certainty that the Wish will achieve the desired end; at best, the Wish will put the wisher into circumstances which have the greatest possibility of achieving that end (see Principle III).

VI: Wishes will always act in the simplest manner possible while abiding by the wording of the Wish itself.
If a desired end may be accomplished with a lower-level spell than the wisher had in mind, for instance, and the means to achieve that end was not fully specified in the Wish, then the lower-level spell will be used. In general, the more mass or energy involved in the fulfillment of a Wish, the more complex the undertaking will be. “Creation” (see Principle IV) of a substance or material is more difficult than molecular rearrangement which might accomplish the same purpose. Molecular rearrangement is more difficult than destruction, destruction is more difficult than the teleportation of something, and teleportation is more difficult than simple enlightenment or knowledge given to the wisher.

VII: Wishes are general-purpose spells, and as such may be used voluntarily in a number of ways, with varying chances for success.
To employ this principle properly, it is necessary to determine at what level of power the magic operates to cause the fulfillment of a particular wish. If the method involves the magic of a known spell, the level of the magic is easily determined from the rules; new spells or other types of magic will have to be compared to existing spells and magic by the DM before determining the level of magic involved.Often, but not always, when a spell level lower than the Wish itself is used to achieve the desired end, the manifestation of the magic will be similar to the spell in question but in an improved form (for instance, teleportation with no chance for error) because of the extra power of the Wish spell itself above and beyond the energy needed to make the wish come true. Spells which are “improved” in this manner are generally those of levels where the chance for success is 100%.

VIII: Wishes will rarely achieve more than one end and never more than two.
All spells are formulated to achieve a specific purpose, whether it be to neutralize poison in some creature, charm a hostile group of opponents, or restore life in an individual. It is not beyond the power of a Wish to reintegrate a character and even restore life to his body (constitution check applicable); even though those are two distinctly separate acts, they both contribute to the fulfillment of a specific purpose. In contrast, it would not be possible for a single Wish to teleport a group of characters out of the middle of a melee to a place of safety, accompanied by all the opponents’ treasure (which, at the time of the Wish, is still in the possession of the opponents).
In any case except the most simply worded wishes, the DM will have to weigh the Wish in terms of how many ends it is designed to achieve. For example, how many dead characters can a Wish bring back to life all at once? The answer varies: If the deaths were all due to a single incident such as a cave-in, or if they all occurred within the same short period of time during melee, a Wish would probably be permitted to save all the victims, since only the effect of one short span of time is being altered, and in that respect only one end is being achieved. On the other hand, if half of a group of characters died in a cave-in and the other half in a run-in with an umber hulk, only one group of victims would be able, to be brought back to life with a single Wish — altering one occurrence, not two, and achieving only one end instead of two distinctly different purposes.

IX: Wishes will fulfill, to the limits of their power, not only the desired end but the means by which that end is brought about.
The wording of this Principle implies that a Wish spell has reasoning power of its own which enables it to make a “choice” between various methods of achieving a desired end, and perhaps even distort or depart from the wording of the wish. This is NOT so!
A good example of the improper distortion of a Wish is the character who wishes for a demon to serve him as a slave — and gets sent to the Abyss to pick one out. Some DMs consider this a fair interpretation, claiming that it does not violate the wording of the wish. While this may be technically true (depending upon the actual wording), such action is in violation of the nature of a Wish.
It has been pointed out in earlier Principles that a Wish may be fulfilled in one of several different ways. In all cases, the
Wish will be fulfilled in such a way that the end result is achieved as desired, and in the manner which it could reasonably
be expected to be achieved. One of the biggest advantages of a Wish is its flexibility, but this is only an advantage as long as the DM and the players all use common sense and fairness in the wording and fulfillment of a desire.This is where I depart from the Ten Commandments of Wishes. I feel that if the Wish comes from a hostile, cursed, or innately evil source, then the DM should be encouraged to pervert the implementation of the Wish while delivering what was literally asked for. The Monkey's Paw Wish is an iconic narrative hook, but should be treated with the same level of caution that the Deck of Many Things is, since both can potentially derail a campaign.

X: Wishes are objective, impartial, and consistent.
If a Wish works in a certain way in a certain situation, it should always work in the same manner in identical situations in the future — as long as the set of circumstances directly involved in the Wish is the same.
Sometimes it may be a matter of interpretation whether the conditions for a Wish are identical to the conditions that existed at a previous time when an earlier Wish was used. In any event, if the general conditions are the same and the Wish is worded identically to or generally the same as a previous Wish, the means of achieving an end and that end itself must be generally the same as they were for the first Wish.
If a DM is properly consistent in this fashion, it may become possible for players to “predict” the effects or the outcome of making a certain Wish at a certain time. Players should be permitted to have this knowledge and to be able to trust in it once they have figured out this “law of nature.” Players should also be aware that the nature of a Wish makes it impossible to predict any outcome with certainty. The word “consistency” in the Principle stated above applies more to the approach and the motives of the DM (who grants the wish) than it does to the actual result of the Wish. In no case should the DM’s personal feelings for a player or a character have any influence on whether a Wish is granted or how it is put into effect. Petty emotions are neither impartial, objective nor consistent, and have no place in the implementation of a Wish or in any other aspect of an AD&D adventure.


In the magazine, each rule listed above is eloborated on. I encourage you to read it in full. If there is interest, I'll copy it into this thread.

Disclaimer: Dragon Magazine #49 was published in the 1981 but (I believe) the conventional logic of a wish still applies.

[GriffinAlden]

Thank you for the ideas,

I like the "going crazy" one :nale:

[Contrast]

All the memories are in his head...well one of them at least. He becomes the incredible two-headed man! Everyone still recognises that head as the other guy.

But really I'd think carefully before actively trying to twist them too hard, particularly where the player apparently hasn't particularly tried to lawyer his way through anyway (seriously if I was warned to be careful on wording I would not word a wish in a way that might result in someone elses brain getting teleported into my skull).

[Yak]

He might have both sets of memories, but not know which are his and which are the other persons. What if he has done hideous things and the PC can’t tell if he did them or the other guy.

As for people thinking he’s the other guy, what about enemies and creditors? A hideously clingy wife? A hideous wife? An overbearing father? The police? This guys life could have been on the verge of ruin, and he’s just about to take the fall.

[qube]

1. I <name> wish that all memories <name> (point at target) has, will be in my head, in addition to my own. 1. the other guy drops into a coma.
2. you're now stuck with his entire spirit (incl. memories) in your head, pestering you as voice (I'm thinking Nail, from Dragonball Abridged)
3. people have seen you point at him while this happend. They are convinced you tried to kill him.


2. I <name> wish that everybody who knows him (point at target), will have their memories altered in a way that they recognize and accept me as him. So everyone who doesn't/didn't know him, doesn't?

*he has black hair*
*no, he's blond*
*what are you taking about?!*
*OMG ... he cast a curse on you!*
*No, he cast a curse on YOU!*
*Either way, he cursed one of us! call the guards !!! *

[Segev]

The wishes together transform him into a greater doppelgänger. He may not be aware that he has additional shapeshifting powers.

[sithlordnergal]

Hmmm, he wishes to take someone else's memories for himself? Well, might I suggest refer to this particular comic.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1130.html

I'd warn him that he would become the NPC though, and lose all of his abilities.

[LudicSavant]

Reposting from a relevant thread two years ago on the Wish spell. It ties to an old Dragon magazine article from when Gygax was still slinging dice. Please pardon or ignore the 1st edition jargon.

The General Principles of a Wish

I: Wishes are 9th level magic spells and are limited in power accordingly...
There is no such thing in the AD&D™ rules as a 10th-level spell, or any form of magical energy which is more potent than a 9th-level spell. If a Wish was unlimited in power, it would be theoretically possible for it to have the energy of a 10th-level spell — but then the Wish spell itself would have to be considered a 10th-level spell, and that is a contradiction. Using the same reasoning, a Limited Wish is limited in scope and power to what can be accomplished with the energy of a 7th-level spell. In addition to these general limitations, there are specific instances cited in the AD&D rules where the use of a Wish is impossible or ineffective.

II: Wishes cannot change what has already happened, but they can be used to alter or negate the result of some prior happening.
If, for example, someone has been disintegrated, nothing short of divine intervention can change that fact: he has been disintegrated. The result of this occurrence, however, can be nullified by a Wish which causes the body of the victim to be reintegrated (see Principle VIII).

III: Wishes can not directly affect that which will happen, except in the sense that everything that will happen is a direct result of what is and has been happening.
A Wish has no real power to affect anything except at the precise moment it is uttered (see Principle II). Therefore, a Wish for a specific occurrence or situation to come about in the future — but not at the time the Wish is actually made — would have the effect of placing the wisher in circumstances at the present time that would most possibly bring about the desired end after the passage of the intervening time, but would not and could not constitute a guarantee that the desired event will happen.

IV: Wishes are bound by the laws under which they themselves are brought and used.
In most AD&D universes, this will mean that a Wish cannot make something out of nothing or vice versa. For the creation of food, water, soft goods and other such items, raw materials (carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen) are usually available in abundance. However, the creation of a certain amount of iron, copper, gold, platinum, or other valuable materials is much more difficult because of the relative scarcity of such items. In any event, the creation of a quantity of material which is greater in mass than the spellcaster or wisher will be considered much more complex and energy-draining than the alternative of teleporting the wisher to the desired substance or vice versa (see Principle VI). For purposes of this determination, all magical items and all living beings (with the exception of the character using the Wish) are considered to be of infinite mass; that is, the creation of such items by a Wish is essentially impossible, since the energy of a Wish is not also infinite.

V: Wishes have no power or authority over the abstract, the insubstantial, or non-concrete.In particular, a Wish cannot grant ownership, titles, or other stations which require an authority to confer them upon someone else. Nor can they remove such titles and privileges, either from the wisher or others. If a Wish deals wholly or primarily with abstract, intangible considerations, there can be no certainty that the Wish will achieve the desired end; at best, the Wish will put the wisher into circumstances which have the greatest possibility of achieving that end (see Principle III).

VI: Wishes will always act in the simplest manner possible while abiding by the wording of the Wish itself.
If a desired end may be accomplished with a lower-level spell than the wisher had in mind, for instance, and the means to achieve that end was not fully specified in the Wish, then the lower-level spell will be used. In general, the more mass or energy involved in the fulfillment of a Wish, the more complex the undertaking will be. “Creation” (see Principle IV) of a substance or material is more difficult than molecular rearrangement which might accomplish the same purpose. Molecular rearrangement is more difficult than destruction, destruction is more difficult than the teleportation of something, and teleportation is more difficult than simple enlightenment or knowledge given to the wisher.

VII: Wishes are general-purpose spells, and as such may be used voluntarily in a number of ways, with varying chances for success.
To employ this principle properly, it is necessary to determine at what level of power the magic operates to cause the fulfillment of a particular wish. If the method involves the magic of a known spell, the level of the magic is easily determined from the rules; new spells or other types of magic will have to be compared to existing spells and magic by the DM before determining the level of magic involved.Often, but not always, when a spell level lower than the Wish itself is used to achieve the desired end, the manifestation of the magic will be similar to the spell in question but in an improved form (for instance, teleportation with no chance for error) because of the extra power of the Wish spell itself above and beyond the energy needed to make the wish come true. Spells which are “improved” in this manner are generally those of levels where the chance for success is 100%.

VIII: Wishes will rarely achieve more than one end and never more than two.
All spells are formulated to achieve a specific purpose, whether it be to neutralize poison in some creature, charm a hostile group of opponents, or restore life in an individual. It is not beyond the power of a Wish to reintegrate a character and even restore life to his body (constitution check applicable); even though those are two distinctly separate acts, they both contribute to the fulfillment of a specific purpose. In contrast, it would not be possible for a single Wish to teleport a group of characters out of the middle of a melee to a place of safety, accompanied by all the opponents’ treasure (which, at the time of the Wish, is still in the possession of the opponents).
In any case except the most simply worded wishes, the DM will have to weigh the Wish in terms of how many ends it is designed to achieve. For example, how many dead characters can a Wish bring back to life all at once? The answer varies: If the deaths were all due to a single incident such as a cave-in, or if they all occurred within the same short period of time during melee, a Wish would probably be permitted to save all the victims, since only the effect of one short span of time is being altered, and in that respect only one end is being achieved. On the other hand, if half of a group of characters died in a cave-in and the other half in a run-in with an umber hulk, only one group of victims would be able, to be brought back to life with a single Wish — altering one occurrence, not two, and achieving only one end instead of two distinctly different purposes.

IX: Wishes will fulfill, to the limits of their power, not only the desired end but the means by which that end is brought about.
The wording of this Principle implies that a Wish spell has reasoning power of its own which enables it to make a “choice” between various methods of achieving a desired end, and perhaps even distort or depart from the wording of the wish. This is NOT so!
A good example of the improper distortion of a Wish is the character who wishes for a demon to serve him as a slave — and gets sent to the Abyss to pick one out. Some DMs consider this a fair interpretation, claiming that it does not violate the wording of the wish. While this may be technically true (depending upon the actual wording), such action is in violation of the nature of a Wish.
It has been pointed out in earlier Principles that a Wish may be fulfilled in one of several different ways. In all cases, the
Wish will be fulfilled in such a way that the end result is achieved as desired, and in the manner which it could reasonably
be expected to be achieved. One of the biggest advantages of a Wish is its flexibility, but this is only an advantage as long as the DM and the players all use common sense and fairness in the wording and fulfillment of a desire.This is where I depart from the Ten Commandments of Wishes. I feel that if the Wish comes from a hostile, cursed, or innately evil source, then the DM should be encouraged to pervert the implementation of the Wish while delivering what was literally asked for. The Monkey's Paw Wish is an iconic narrative hook, but should be treated with the same level of caution that the Deck of Many Things is, since both can potentially derail a campaign.

X: Wishes are objective, impartial, and consistent.
If a Wish works in a certain way in a certain situation, it should always work in the same manner in identical situations in the future — as long as the set of circumstances directly involved in the Wish is the same.
Sometimes it may be a matter of interpretation whether the conditions for a Wish are identical to the conditions that existed at a previous time when an earlier Wish was used. In any event, if the general conditions are the same and the Wish is worded identically to or generally the same as a previous Wish, the means of achieving an end and that end itself must be generally the same as they were for the first Wish.
If a DM is properly consistent in this fashion, it may become possible for players to “predict” the effects or the outcome of making a certain Wish at a certain time. Players should be permitted to have this knowledge and to be able to trust in it once they have figured out this “law of nature.” Players should also be aware that the nature of a Wish makes it impossible to predict any outcome with certainty. The word “consistency” in the Principle stated above applies more to the approach and the motives of the DM (who grants the wish) than it does to the actual result of the Wish. In no case should the DM’s personal feelings for a player or a character have any influence on whether a Wish is granted or how it is put into effect. Petty emotions are neither impartial, objective nor consistent, and have no place in the implementation of a Wish or in any other aspect of an AD&D adventure.


In the magazine, each rule listed above is eloborated on. I encourage you to read it in full. If there is interest, I'll copy it into this thread.

Disclaimer: Dragon Magazine #49 was published in the 1981 but (I believe) the conventional logic of a wish still applies.

Thanks for sharing this!