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TheNerfGuy
2019-03-09, 10:31 PM
Twice in this campaign, I've run into a monster that seems to be undead but has the power to turn undead (as in, make them run or blow them up). Both times required a Knowledge (Religion) check to identify them, but so far, they've failed their checks.

When I asked my DM about it, he noted that it was essentially a reskin of an existing undead, complete with said ability to turn undead.

I'm asking if there is a sort of undead with that ability.

To give a further idea of what it might be, here's what I know about it:
It can inflict Energy Drain.
It can Create Spawn that are weaker.
It can also unleash a beam of light sort of like a Searing Light spell or something similar.
It uses Melee Touch Attacks when in range, but it is fully subject to normal weapons; a non-magical weapon is just as effective as a magical one (though a magical one would work better due to the bonuses they have over mundane/masterwork).

ETA: Here are the details on both encounters:

Encounter 1:
We were on a ship sailing to our next destination when we happened upon a derelict ship. We found one corpse on the deck; cause of death was starvation. And we found a note written in blood that said "Beware the Howling Face of the Sun". We went inside and found more dead bodies and doors that seemed to have been blocked from the inside. Our wizard, a Diviner, used Arcane Sight to get a read and found something that could best be described as "the power of the sun that had been corrupted". Around that time, the corpses got up attacked, being controlled by some kind of solid spectre. Our party had a ghost from "Ghostwalk Campaign Setting"; it was ruled that it was "Undead-lite" (technically living, but healed from "Inflict" spells, hurt by "Cure", and can be turned). The nearest one was described as being "offended" by the ghost's presence and used Turn Undead; the second attempt succeeded, and she was driven off. They controlled the corpses like puppets and were very slow for it, having a difficult time moving with the inanimate corpses littering the ground. We got out of there and pelted them with arrows until they were all dead. A big one, which we assumed was the one that created all of these, burst in and got a pretty good hit on us, but it was still stuck at a distance, letting us curbstomp it.

Encounter 2:
We were in a town infested with zombies. We hadn't been spotted by them yet, but we did come upon a warehouse building. It wasn't any different from the others, but the sounds coming from inside were different; we'd hear a flash followed by running going to one side, and then another flash followed by running to the other side. Eventually, the door was blown to pieces and we got a look inside. There were at least eight zombies and three of those things in there, one being a big one. While we discussed about what to do, the DM played out the scene; the two smaller ones were using Turn Undead to force the zombies to run around while the big one's Turning was powerful enough to blow up two at a time. The remaining zombies found the open door and fled, ignoring us entirely, and then the things attacked us. We had to book it since we were taking too many negative levels, and their slowness made that easy. Eventually, they got distracted by more undead and went after them, disappearing into an alleyway where we saw three more flashes of light.

Those were the only times I encountered them.

I know what the DM is using the reskin the things with, but the creature that the DM reskinned is what I'm having trouble finding out.

magic9mushroom
2019-03-10, 12:51 AM
Twice in this campaign, I've run into a monster that seems to be undead but has the power to turn undead (as in, make them run or blow them up). Both times required a Knowledge (Religion) check to identify them, but so far, they've failed their checks.

When I asked my DM about it, he noted that it was essentially a reskin of an existing undead, complete with said ability to turn undead.

I'm asking if there is a sort of undead with that ability.

To give a further idea of what it might be, here's what I know about it:
It can inflict Energy Drain.
It can Create Spawn that are weaker.
It can also unleash a beam of light sort of like a Searing Light spell or something similar.
It uses Melee Touch Attacks when in range, but it is fully subject to normal weapons; a non-magical weapon is just as effective as a magical one (though a magical one would work better due to the bonuses they have over mundane/masterwork).

There's the Good Lich from Libris Mortis, which is literally a good lich with the ability to turn undead: it does have a touch attack, but most of the rest doesn't fit (although I suppose spellcasting can do most of those things; the DR 15/bludgeoning and magic is still there, though).

An Atropal reskinned as Deathless would hit most of those things, as an Atropal has energy-draining eye beams of pure darkness, has an aura that bestows ten negative levels, creates spawn, rebukes undead, and has touch attacks, but unless you're Epic I can't imagine a DM actually throwing one of those at you (and it has DR 15/good and epic and silver, regeneration 20/good or sentient, and fast healing 20, so it's kinda egregiously not "fully subject to normal weapons").

A vampire cleric who for some reason is not Evil (Helm of Opposite Alignment? Sanctify the Wicked?) would have most of those abilities (the beam of light could be the actual spell Searing Light, or the light ray that Sanctified creatures get). It would still have DR 10/silver and magic, though (and unless the DM's houseruling Sanctified they'd lose the Energy Drain and Create Spawn).

Are you positive it doesn't have DR, or is it possible that it has DR that simply isn't overcome by magic weapons? Because a +1 steel longsword won't be any more effective against any of the above than a nonmagical weapon.

Ashtagon
2019-03-10, 12:59 AM
Doesn't Eberron have "undead" elves powered by positive energy?

magic9mushroom
2019-03-10, 01:06 AM
Doesn't Eberron have "undead" elves powered by positive energy?

Yeah, there's a whole anti-undead type called Deathless (it's also used in BoED). The bit that makes me doubt that it's deathless (or, at least, a canned deathless monster, rather than a canned undead monster refluffed as deathless) is the Energy Drain and Create Spawn, which are usually not found on deathless.

Khedrac
2019-03-10, 02:46 AM
A Cleric lich?

TheNerfGuy
2019-03-10, 09:30 AM
There's the Good Lich from Libris Mortis, which is literally a good lich with the ability to turn undead: it does have a touch attack, but most of the rest doesn't fit (although I suppose spellcasting can do most of those things; the DR 15/bludgeoning and magic is still there, though).

An Atropal reskinned as Deathless would hit most of those things, as an Atropal has energy-draining eye beams of pure darkness, has an aura that bestows ten negative levels, creates spawn, rebukes undead, and has touch attacks, but unless you're Epic I can't imagine a DM actually throwing one of those at you (and it has DR 15/good and epic and silver, regeneration 20/good or sentient, and fast healing 20, so it's kinda egregiously not "fully subject to normal weapons").

A vampire cleric who for some reason is not Evil (Helm of Opposite Alignment? Sanctify the Wicked?) would have most of those abilities (the beam of light could be the actual spell Searing Light, or the light ray that Sanctified creatures get). It would still have DR 10/silver and magic, though (and unless the DM's houseruling Sanctified they'd lose the Energy Drain and Create Spawn).

Are you positive it doesn't have DR, or is it possible that it has DR that simply isn't overcome by magic weapons? Because a +1 steel longsword won't be any more effective against any of the above than a nonmagical weapon.

As for DR, I wouldn't know for sure. Usually, the DM gives an indication of something having DR when he says "That attack doesn't look like it did as much as it should" or "It doesn't seem to mind the attack that much". We did damage it on both occasions, and no such things were said. So I can safely assume there was no DR.

It was a monster class, so anything with class levels (Good Liches, undead clerics, vampires), wouldn't have been it.

I'll update the original post with what I remember of both encounters.

KillianHawkeye
2019-03-10, 09:35 AM
What kind of spawn does it create?

TheNerfGuy
2019-03-10, 09:58 AM
What kind of spawn does it create?

As far as I can tell, smaller versions of itself. They possess weaker versions of its abilities.
The spawn's Turn Undead only seems strong enough to drive undead into fleeing, and they don't seem to have the Searing Light-like attack the bigger one has.

I've never seen it create spawn, but corpses of otherwise-normal people suddenly revealing they're smaller versions of this thing greatly implies it.

enderlord99
2019-03-11, 04:34 AM
Are you sure that thing was undead at all? (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/alluria-publishing/obitu/)

TheNerfGuy
2019-03-11, 01:23 PM
Are you sure that thing was undead at all?

The only clues that it was undead or deathless was that we had to roll Knowledge (Religion) checks to see if our characters knew what it is, and the fact it was essentially a spectre connected to a corpse that it controlled like a puppet. Unless I encounter it again and succeed on the roll, I won't know for sure what type it is.

enderlord99
2019-03-11, 02:03 PM
The only clues that it was undead or deathless was that we had to roll Knowledge (Religion) checks to see if our characters knew what it is, and the fact it was essentially a spectre connected to a corpse that it controlled like a puppet. Unless I encounter it again and succeed on the roll, I won't know for sure what type it is.

Oh.

Definitely not the thing I linked, then.

Thurbane
2019-03-11, 08:14 PM
To be honest, sounds like it might be a homebrew or 3rd party monster. I can't find any first party 3.0/3.5 undead (aside from the above mentioned Good Lich), barring class levels, that can turn undead.

Good Lich + Entropic Creature template + Phantom template kind of does what the OP is describing, but not exactly.

tomandtish
2019-03-11, 08:21 PM
Are you sure it turned undead? Or did your DM say "it appears to have turned the undead" or something similar?

I ask because a trick I (as a player and a DM) and at least one other DM I know have used is causing the ability to rebuke undead to fake turning them.

TheNerfGuy
2019-03-11, 09:00 PM
Are you sure it turned undead? Or did your DM say "it appears to have turned the undead" or something similar?

I ask because a trick I (as a player and a DM) and at least one other DM I know have used is causing the ability to rebuke undead to fake turning them.

Both times, the DM explicitly referred to it as turning. In the second encounter, we had a cleric of Pelor, and the DM let them know that they were indeed Turn Undead being used by these things.

Thurbane
2019-03-11, 09:30 PM
The Seelie Court Fey template can give Vernal Touch, which mimics turn undead, but is range: touch only.

Telonius
2019-03-12, 10:03 PM
That "Beware the howling face of the sun" thing is giving me a bit of pause. I'm wondering if he's not pulling some shenanigans with "Pelor, the Burning Hate." An undead (possibly vampire, possibly Necropolitan?) Cleric with the Sun domain could probably pull most of the stuff you've mentioned.

Thurbane
2019-03-12, 10:17 PM
That "Beware the howling face of the sun" thing is giving me a bit of pause. I'm wondering if he's not pulling some shenanigans with "Pelor, the Burning Hate." An undead (possibly vampire, possibly Necropolitan?) Cleric with the Sun domain could probably pull most of the stuff you've mentioned.

Yeah, I personally believe it's either a standard monster/templated monster with class levels; or an entirely home-brew/3rd party creature...