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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Oath of Cheese (Paladin Archetype)



Grek
2019-03-10, 09:24 PM
Tenets of Cheese
1. Cheese for Everyone! Cheese is the greatest food in existence and ought be consumed as often as feasible.
2. Cheese for Everyone! Those without cheese are sorely missing out - it is your duty to provide for them.
3. Cheese for Everyone! If something is worth doing, it is worth doing in the most extreme and technically permissible way possible.

Oath Spells:
3rd: Goudaberry*, Grease.
5th: Augur Whey**, Crown of Madness.
9th: Conjure Barrage***, Stinking Cloud.
13th: Confusion, Hallucinatory Terrain.
17th: Conjure Volley***, Contact Other Plane.
*As Goodberry, but substituting each berry with a one ounce ball of cheese.
**As Augury, but requiring a 1sp pint of fresh milk, which is converted into whey (for weal results) or curds (for woe results).
***Must be used on cheese rather than ammunition. Deals bludgeoning damage.

Channel Divinity: Seek the Manxome
As an action, you may mimsily outgrabe against a particularly manxome foe and gointen yourself to cruffle it into wumphs. For the next three turns, all attacks made by you or your foe against the other are resolved as shove attacks, all spells cast by either part are resolved as a Major Image of the spell that the caster intended to cast and everything that either says is replaced with nonsense. Smite damage is unaffected.

Channel Divinity: Turn into Cheese
You can use your Channel Divinity to transmute non-cheese objects into cheese. As an action, you present your holy symbol and select a 5' cube within 30 feet. All objects within that space are converted into cheese. Creatures within the cube may make a Charisma save to prevent the cheesification of their possessions. Armour converted into cheese provides no protection. Weapons converted into cheese inflict minimal damage. Most other objects are rendered non-functional, and any object made of cheese can be consumed as a standard action, destroying it. Magical items cannot be converted into cheese.

Air of Dairy:
Starting at 7th level, you radiate a aroma that smells faintly of cheese. Enemies within 5 feet of you are poisoned by the stench. At 18th level, the range of your aroma increases to 10 feet.

Strength in Cheese:
Starting at level 15, whenever you eat a piece of cheese, regain 1d6+Con hit points. This cannot increase your hit points above half of your max health.

Champion of Cheese:
At 20th level, you become one with the cheese as an action. You gain the following benefits:

-You are immune to the spell confusion.
-As a reaction, you may convert any one attack made against you into a shove attack.

Legokeiki
2019-03-10, 11:21 PM
Tenets of Cheese
1. Cheese for Everyone! Cheese is the greatest food in existence and ought be consumed as often as feasible.
2. Cheese for Everyone! Those without cheese are sorely missing out - it is your duty to provide for them.
3. Cheese for Everyone! If something is worth doing, it is worth doing in the most extreme and technically permissible way possible.

Oath Spells:
3rd: Goudaberry*, Grease.
5th: Augur Whey**, Crown of Madness.
9th: Conjure Barrage***, Stinking Cloud.
13th: Confusion, Hallucinatory Terrain.
17th: Conjure Volley***, Contact Other Plane.
*As Goodberry, but substituting each berry with a one ounce ball of cheese.
**As Augury, but requiring a 1sp pint of fresh milk, which is converted into whey (for weal results) or curds (for woe results).
***Must be used on cheese rather than ammunition. Deals bludgeoning damage.

Channel Divinity: Seek the Manxome
As an action, you may mimsily outgrabe against a particularly manxome foe and gointen yourself to cruffle it into wumphs. For the next three turns, all attacks made by you or your foe against the other are resolved as shove attacks, all spells cast by either part are resolved as a Major Image of the spell that the caster intended to cast and everything that either says is replaced with nonsense. Smite damage is unaffected.

Channel Divinity: Turn into Cheese
You can use your Channel Divinity to transmute non-cheese objects into cheese. As an action, you present your holy symbol and select a 5' cube within 30 feet. All objects within that space are converted into cheese. Creautres within the cube may make a Charisma save to prevent the cheesification of their possessions. Armour converted into cheese provides no protection. Weapons converted into cheese inflict minimal damage. Most other objects are rendered non-functional, and all cheesed objects can be destroyed as a standard action by consuming them. Magical items cannot be converted into cheese.

Air of Dairy:
Starting at 7th level, you radiate a aroma that smells faintly of cheese. Enemies within 10 feet of you are poisoned by the stench. At 18th level, the range of your aroma increases to 30 feet

Strength in Cheese:
Starting at level 15, whenever you eat a piece of cheese, regain hit points equal to 1d6+half your paladin level. This cannot increase your hit points above half.

Champion of Cheese:
At 20th level, you become one with the cheese as an action. You gain the following benefits:

-You are immune to confusion.
-As a reaction, you may convert any one attack made against you into a shove attack.

First off, I find this hilarious. Not sure what cheese has to do with jabberwock though.

Seek the Manxome
Not entirely sure what's happening here.

Turn Into Cheese
This seems fine. Not sure if you mean for all "cheesified" objects to be consumed in an action, or one action per object.

Air of Dairy
No save makes this broken. Automatic disadvantage is pretty potent. A lot of monsters have immunity, but if they don't, this is a major buff for the party. I'd change it to a Con save that they can make every turn, becoming immune to the stench for a while if they succeed.

Strength in Cheese
5e never gives out free heals. In combat, not a big deal, but you can be sure your cheese pally will never start a fight below half health. Also, be careful with saying "half". 5e doesn't have any abilities using "half" of a score that I can think of. I'd change it to 2 times your paladin level or something. As far as balance, making it usable only a certain number of times per day, or making it temp hp would be better.

Champion of Cheese
The way it is written now, you can use this once, and still be under the effect literal YEARS later. 20th level paladin features are a "god mode", if you will, that have a duration. The writing is also a little unclear, and confusion is not a thing in 5e. Overall seems underwhelming compared to the other level 20 paladin features.

Grek
2019-03-11, 05:31 AM
Cheese For Everyone is a reference to the Elder Scrolls series, which makes a reference to Jabberwocky itself.

Both the level 15 and level 20 powers are inspired by the oath of redemption paladin, who likewise heals up to half health easily and who gets a strong always on defensive benefit rather than a super form at capstone. Confusion here is the spell of the same name - it's a cute ribbon alongside the actual "ignore one attack per round" main effect.

The "save" for Dairy Air is to move out of the 10' range and use ranged attacks - same as how the counter to aura of warding is to get the party out of range of the paladin, or for moonbeam on the druid you have to keep moving out of the AoE. Giving every enemy a save every round to end the effect would make for a lot of resolution for not a lot of effect. Might bump the radius down to 5' and then 10' though.

noob
2019-03-11, 06:15 AM
contact other plane should be written as able to send messages to modern day airplanes.

Legokeiki
2019-03-11, 10:42 AM
Cheese For Everyone is a reference to the Elder Scrolls series, which makes a reference to Jabberwocky itself.

Both the level 15 and level 20 powers are inspired by the oath of redemption paladin, who likewise heals up to half health easily and who gets a strong always on defensive benefit rather than a super form at capstone. Confusion here is the spell of the same name - it's a cute ribbon alongside the actual "ignore one attack per round" main effect.

The "save" for Dairy Air is to move out of the 10' range and use ranged attacks - same as how the counter to aura of warding is to get the party out of range of the paladin, or for moonbeam on the druid you have to keep moving out of the AoE. Giving every enemy a save every round to end the effect would make for a lot of resolution for not a lot of effect. Might bump the radius down to 5' and then 10' though.

Aura of warding is a buff to friendlies, not a debuff to enemies. It wouldn’t make sense for there to be a save for your allies since they would just choose to fail and gain the benefits. Enemies however, should have a save for this kind of thing 99% of the time.

If you want a constant effect don’t have the “as an action”
To clarify that you mean the spell, I’d write something like: You are immune to the Confusion spell and similar magical effects.
Having the “negated” attack turn into a shove just feels kind of annoying to me. Why not just cancel it entirely? Also, is this supposed to stop the attack before you know if it hits or after?

Redemption paladin does not heal “up to half”. He heals once, at the end of combat, IF he is below half. That is limited healing. For example, say your lv20 paladin has 160 max hp. At the end of combat, he might only have 30 hp left. Redemption paladin would bump up to 41-46 hp. Cheese pally would spam his cheese until he was up to 80. Pretty big difference if you ask me. Also, cheese pally will keep his hp up even after traps and other annoyances, where as redemption pally can’t.

Yunru
2019-03-11, 10:52 AM
Aura of warding is a buff to friendlies, not a debuff to enemies. It wouldn’t make sense for there to be a save for your allies since they would just choose to fail and gain the benefits. Enemies however, should have a save for this kind of thing 99% of the time.While consistent with the rest of 5e, it's also a terrible design choice. Giving everything a save just because it targets an opponent means that either you make debuffs stronger than needed when they do stick, or everyone just runs buffs instead.


Redemption paladin does not heal “up to half”. He heals once, at the end of combat, IF he is below half. That is limited healing. For example, say your lv20 paladin has 160 max hp. At the end of combat, he might only have 30 hp left. Redemption paladin would bump up to 41-46 hp. Cheese pally would spam his cheese until he was up to 80. Pretty big difference if you ask me. Also, cheese pally will keep his hp up even after traps and other annoyances, where as redemption pally can’t.So... the Champion Fighter then? I don't see an issue with it.

Legokeiki
2019-03-11, 12:06 PM
While consistent with the rest of 5e, it's also a terrible design choice. Giving everything a save just because it targets an opponent means that either you make debuffs stronger than needed when they do stick, or everyone just runs buffs instead.

So... the Champion Fighter then? I don't see an issue with it.

While I get what you’re saying with the aura, auto disadvantage without a save is extremely strong. All the paladin needs to do is stand near the enemies. I think this is too strong of a shutdown power.

When making a subclass, I think it makes the most sense to balance it against subclasses from the same class. The fighter has a different balance than the paladin. Compared to the redemption paladin, which OP based the feature off of, the healing feature of the cheese paladin is far superior.