D&D 3.5 build help request

[samduke]

for a friend of mine they have a character idea

3 levels rogue, 5 levels swashbuckler.
possible feats saavy rogue, dodge, improved feint, improved combat expertise

basic question is for a high dex build is this fairly good is there something a bit more optimized without being OP
thanks

[Eldariel]

for a friend of mine they have a character idea

3 levels rogue, 5 levels swashbuckler.
possible feats saavy rogue, dodge, improved feint, improved combat expertise

basic question is for a high dex build is this fairly good is there something a bit more optimized without being OP
thanks

The class selection is good. The feat selection, not so much. Of those feats, only Savvy Rogue is really any good (and it does nothing since with that few Rogue levels you'll never get the special abilities). Improved Feint is terrible (though if you want to do feinting, give "Invisible Blade" [Complete Warrior] a once-through as it at least gets Feinting as a free action; in that case it's all about two-weapon fighting with Daggers though and a bit of a different style of a build). Also, you'd definitely be well-served with some alternative class features. Let's start:

1. First of all, 100% take Daring Outlaw [Player's Handbook II] feat to stack Rogue and Swashbuckler levels for Sneak Attack, Grace and some other stuff. Mostly it allows going full Swashbuckler with Sneak Attack, which is not horrible and seems like what the player wants to do here anyways.

2. Trade away Trap Sense for Penetrating Strike [Dungeonscape], which allows dealing half damage to normally sneak attack immune enemies while flanking.

3. Take Darkstalker [Lords of Madness]. This allows sneaking against enemies with special senses such as Blindsense, Tremorsense or similar (though you still have to beat their Spot). It also allows flanking enemies with all-around vision, which goes nicely with Penetrating Strike to ensure that you can do at least half damage to basically all enemies if you get to flank them.

4. If you're Two-Weapon Fighting (probably a good idea with high Dex and Sneak Attack), do consider Craven [Champions of Ruin] to add your character level to sneak attack damage, and a dip into Swordsage [Tome of Battle] to pick up Shadow Blade [Tome of Battle] adding Dex to damage. This way you can get pretty decent damage output.

[BowStreetRunner]

A Rogue/Swashbucker build should probably include the Daring Outlaw feat (Complete Scoundrel) to stack levels of both for sneak attack, grace, and dodge bonus. You will generally need to be Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 2 at minimum to qualify without shenanigans. I would recommend going at least as far as Rogue 4 for Uncanny Dodge.

Savvy Rogue isn't available until you have 10 levels of rogue, so that is going to take a while to come into play. Additionally, since the Rogue special abilities that benefit from this feat come at levels 10, and every 3 levels after, you're really only taking this for one or two abilities. The player should have a specific goal in mind - such as Taking 12 with skill mastery or being able to do strength damage to targets immune to sneak attack damage. It's much better for a straight-rogue build.

Dodge is sub-par and normally only taken as a prerequisite to something else.

Improved Feint is one way to trigger sneak attacks, but it uses a move action and leaves you with only a standard action to attack. There is also a skill trick in Complete Scoundrel that would accomplish much the same thing once per combat but only costing a couple of skill points without costing another entire feat (Hidden Blade). Plus there are others such as Acrobatic Backstab, Sudden Draw, and even Escape Attack that give additional options to trigger sneak attacks - again without costing a feat. I really like Acrobatic Backstab since you should already be maxing out Tumble to be able to get into flanking positions, and this gives you a chance to sneak attack without the flank.

Two-Weapon Fighting is almost a must-have. When you are flanking someone and can full attack, that's a lot of sneak attack damage.

[liquidformat]

First off don't worry about being too overpowered this isn't that powerful of a build even if fully optimized.

Daring Outlaw is from complete scoundrel not PHBII, Hidden Blade requires quick draw feat which is a decent feat but still requires a feat...

Alternate class features to look at:
- As said on the rogue side Trading away Trap Sense for Penetrating Strike is a great idea
- Shield of Blades(PHB II) for the swashbuckler dodge ability is a better choice if you are two weapon fighting
- Swift and Deadly(DotU) for swashbuckler acrobatic charge is also a better choice if you are two weapon fighting
- If your dm will allow you to Arcane Stunt (CM) for swashbuckler grace and still take Daring Outlaw it is a much better class feature.

Also if you are going to be small there are some great feat choices, Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folk both from Races of the wild are great for fighting anything medium or above. For gnome, forest gnome, or best whisper gnome look at titan fighting from races of stone is another great feat for fighting medium or larger. Kenku could also be a cool choice and you could go unarmed build adding the claw attacks as secondary in place of two weapon fighting. Kobold can similarly shred through enemies as unarmed/natural attacker plus opens you up for getting more natural attacks.