Martial Druid

[Bannan_mantis]

I am going to make a lizardfolk moon druid for a upcoming campaign and was hoping to gain people's general ideas on a mainly martial style build. I'm planning to be the main melee tank of the campaign. My ideas for how to build this has gone to multiclassing and, before anyone says this, the theme of this is of a warrior druid so I'll ignore any posts saying the moon druid isn't as good of a choice as a fighter or barbarian.

So far my current ideas have been a few levels into barbarian (mainly for rage, reckless attack, a small boost to AC) or monk (martial arts aren't usable in wildshape but that AC is nice.) Is there any I am missing and what are tips for building a character like this? One thing I will say is that my DM is allowing me to grapple in bear forms as they already do it in the wild but I am not going to be able to use it with multiattack.

Edit: remembered my GM won't allow marital arts in wildshape forms so sorry if that edit causes confusion.

[nickl_2000]

1) Are you looking to create a Druid that is tanking in wildshape?
2) Are you allowed UA?
3) Are you planning on spending all your time in wildshape?
4) What levels are you looking at for start and end?
5) Are any UA options allowed?
6) Do you have stats?
7) How picky is your DM about natural armor or are unusual armor materials available for your character?

[Waazraath]

second no4 mentioned above: at what levels will you play, at what level will you start and probably end, and where would you like to multiclass? It's quite relevant; if you play all the way up to 20, it can be a great choice to go druid 10 first for an elemental form, and then start multiclassing, while if you only play up to 8th, you probably want to mc after moon druid 2.

[Bannan_mantis]

1) Are you looking to create a Druid that is tanking in wildshape?
2) Are you allowed homebrew?
3) Are you planning on spending all your time in wildshape?
4) What levels are you looking at for start and end?
5) Are any UA options allowed?
6) Do you have stats?
7) How picky is your DM to natural armor or are unusualy armor choices available for your character?


1) yes, that's the main thing I'm looking for. Also wouldn't mind some boosts to melee damage but tanking first
2) no
3) that's something I'm not so sure about. I haven't fully played a moon druid yet so I am unsure about how long you normally stay in wildshape. I would probably say yes though
4) undefined but starting levels seem to be around 3rd to maybe 11th level (module is still being chosen.) All I know for sure is that at max it'll end around level 15 so no level 20
5) no
6) standard array
7) DM is okay with barbarian and monk unarmoured AC but not Lizardfolk or Tortle's unarmoured AC

[nickl_2000]

So, there are 3 standard routes in making the Moon Druid more tanky

1) 1 level in Barbarian for Rage resistances and unarmored AC.
2) 1 level in Monk for better AC
3) Someone casts mage armor on you.

#1 gives you more damage to your attacks and stretches your wildshape HP out quite a bit. However, you are limited in that you can't rage and keep concentration at the same time. This is a very rough thing for Druids since many other their bread and butter spells are concentration spells (summons especially). Also it requires that you invest 13 in strength, which is generally a dump stat for Moon Druids.

#2 gives you higher AC and let's you keep concentration but pretty much nothing else.

#3 This is a great option, but it depends on someone else. So, that pretty much sucks.


Now, there is another way as well to consider that may work for you. Use your wildshapes as good melee options, but understand that you will be knocked out of wildshape and continue the fight in melee in your caster form. You can easily do this with a combination of shillelagh and booming blade. Take a variant half-elf (SCAG) moon/sun elf option to get Booming Blade. Then get yourself some dragonhide Half-plate and a good shield and you can tank it up in your caster form like the best of them.

Moon/Sun Variant Half-Elf
Str: 8
Dex: 14
Con: 13+1 (14)
Wis: 15+1 (16)
Int: 10
Cha: 12+2(14)

Wield a Staff and cast shillelagh to have a pretty decent attack from the beginning. If you want to up you damage even more in both caster form and wildshaped form you can go Moon Druid 2/ Warlock 1. This gives you 2 castings of Hex, giving you more damage while wildshaped (see Deinonychus or bears) and you can grapple better with causing issues with their hex. For warlock you can look at GOO to be able to communicate with others while you are wildshaped, Fiend to get 3 temp HP for every kill (extending your wildshape form out longer), or hexblade (hexblade's curse for more damage). If you do go warlock as a subclass, you can skip the BB cantrip from variant half-elf and get half-elf skills or something else instead.


So, there is one interesting and slightly crazy option.

[NaughtyTiger]

1) yes, that's the main thing I'm looking for. Also wouldn't mind some boosts to melee damage but tanking first
2) no
3) that's something I'm not so sure about. I haven't fully played a moon druid yet so I am unsure about how long you normally stay in wildshape. I would probably say yes though
4) undefined but starting levels seem to be around 3rd to maybe 11th level (module is still being chosen.) All I know for sure is that at max it'll end around level 15 so no level 20
5) no
6) standard array
7) DM is okay with barbarian and monk unarmoured AC but not Lizardfolk or Tortle's unarmoured AC

str 12
dex 13
con 14 +2
int 10
wis 15 +1
cha 8

Barb 1 (str and con saves)
Druid 2 (moon)
Barb 3 (so many choices: ancestral helps keep the attention on you)
Barb 4 (ASI/feat - sentinel)
Druid 4 (still CR 1, but you get good choices like gator or giant poisounous snake [reach])
Barb 5+

ask for a buddy to cast mage armor (ask DM if it stays through wildshape)

wildshape only lasts for 1 hour per 2 levels, but if you consider short rest as a default when you aren't doing anything, then your wildshape refreshes all the time, you don't have to pop out.

shillelegh on a club is good for non-wildshape
(although, I love thorn whip more)

[TheHutz]

str 12
dex 13
con 14 +2
int 10
wis 15 +1
cha 8

Barb 1 (str and con saves) .....


Will need at least a 13 in STR to multi out of barbarian, so maybe dump strength to make happen.

[Vogie]

Wield a Staff and cast shillelagh to have a pretty decent attack from the beginning. If you want to up you damage even more in both caster form and wildshaped form you can go Moon Druid 2/ Warlock 1. This gives you 2 castings of Hex, giving you more damage while wildshaped (see Deinonychus or bears) and you can grapple better with causing issues with their hex. For warlock you can look at GOO to be able to communicate with others while you are wildshaped, Fiend to get 3 temp HP for every kill (extending your wildshape form out longer), or hexblade (hexblade's curse for more damage). If you do go warlock as a subclass, you can skip the BB cantrip from variant half-elf and get half-elf skills or something else instead.

Warlock 1 has only 1 spell slot, but otherwise this is what I'd do.

I'd actually go Warlock 2 for 2 spell slots, and the Armor of Shadows invocation for Mage Armor. I'd also pick up Fiendish Vigor to start each fight with 8 THP (which you would retain while wild shaped).

Any Wild Shape would probably be better with 13+Dex AC and 8 THP, at no resource cost to you.

Sticking with GOO is probably for the best so you can communicate while Wild Shaped, although going Celestial to be able to toss out the occasional heal while you're a bear or dinosaur could be incredibly useful, depending on your party makeup.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm always a big fan of the Barbarian 1 dip for Moon Druids. A single point in Barbarian gets you so much survivability that isn't limited to just your Wildshape Form. Not only that, but your Wildshape forms generally get about +2-+3 AC from the level, not to mention double their effective HP against non-spellcasters.

Rage and Concentration can't be used together, but they don't always need to. As a front line tank with low AC, you're not going to be able to hold on to Concentration very easily, unlikely past the first two rounds, and you won't be able to recast them on yourself until your Wildshape is done.

However, a Rage Moon Druid doesn't have this problem. Not only do they have to deal 34-68 damage to your Bear form (depending on whether they're using spells or not), but they also have to deal half damage to your Druid form. Once you're out of Wildshape form, you can afford to use some of your other spells to scatter the enemy, like Conjure Animals or Moonbeam.

As an added bonus, the Barbarian has +2 HP more than the Monk, or +4 more if you start as a Barbarian, giving a bit more survivability to your Druid form.

I'd say that the Rage Moon Druid is a better choice for someone who's sole job is to absorb damage for the team. A Monk Moon Druid is better for someone who's versatile and needs to fulfill multiple jobs (like as a summoner, healer, or AoE damage dealer).

[NaughtyTiger]

Will need at least a 13 in STR to multi out of barbarian, so maybe dump strength to make happen.

duh! great catch. swap str and dex.

[Guy Lombard-O]

I'm always a big fan of the Barbarian 1 dip for Moon Druids. A single point in Barbarian gets you so much survivability that isn't limited to just your Wildshape Form. Not only that, but your Wildshape forms generally get about +2-+3 AC from the level, not to mention double their effective HP against non-spellcasters.

Rage and Concentration can't be used together, but they don't always need to. As a front line tank with low AC, you're not going to be able to hold on to Concentration very easily, unlikely past the first two rounds, and you won't be able to recast them on yourself until your Wildshape is done.

However, a Rage Moon Druid doesn't have this problem. Not only do they have to deal 34-68 damage to your Bear form (depending on whether they're using spells or not), but they also have to deal half damage to your Druid form. Once you're out of Wildshape form, you can afford to use some of your other spells to scatter the enemy, like Conjure Animals or Moonbeam.

As an added bonus, the Barbarian has +2 HP more than the Monk, or +4 more if you start as a Barbarian, giving a bit more survivability to your Druid form.

I'd say that the Rage Moon Druid is a better choice for someone who's sole job is to absorb damage for the team. A Monk Moon Druid is better for someone who's versatile and needs to fulfill multiple jobs (like as a summoner, healer, or AoE damage dealer).

Seconded. I'm playing exactly this right now in ToA (which is awesome - dinosaurs!). It works wonderfully at low levels - you're an absolute monster as a tank (Deinonychus is a shredding machine for tier 1 play). But I suspect that the synergy of the multi-class will drop off dramatically as we get deeper into tier 2, so I'm glad I only put 1 level into the barbarian dip. Druids are powerful, and that single level of barbarian is enough of a boost with just the rage bonus damage/resistance, and the AC bump.

[Man_Over_Game]

Seconded. I'm playing exactly this right now in ToA (which is awesome - dinosaurs!). It works wonderfully at low levels - you're an absolute monster as a tank (Deinonychus is a shredding machine for tier 1 play). But I suspect that the synergy of the multi-class will drop off dramatically as we get deeper into tier 2, so I'm glad I only put 1 level into the barbarian dip. Druids are powerful, and that single level of barbarian is enough of a boost with just the rage bonus damage/resistance, and the AC bump.

How often do you run out of spells, or have to rely on magic to solve your problems?

[Bannan_mantis]

After reading through some posts and considering the thing I thought of for my character I think I'm going barb/druid. My one question is how much should I dip into barbarian? I don't mind losing higher CR forms or spells if it means I'm going to be more powerful in melee.

[nickl_2000]

After reading through some posts and considering the thing I thought of for my character I think I'm going barb/druid. My one question is how much should I dip into barbarian? I don't mind losing higher CR forms or spells if it means I'm going to be more powerful in melee.

1 for rage and defense.
2 for reckless attack in form for better hits
3 for archetype and three rages per day
5 for multi attack in caster form.


I would say 1 or 3 personally.

[Man_Over_Game]

After reading through some posts and considering the thing I thought of for my character I think I'm going barb/druid. My one question is how much should I dip into barbarian? I don't mind losing higher CR forms or spells if it means I'm going to be more powerful in melee.

1 is the standard.

2 is only if you need to dish out a lot of damage.

3 is if you don't plan on casting many spells and plan on relying on Rage, potentially even after Wildshape is over.

One of the key components is that the more Barbarian levels you add past 1, the weaker your Wildshapes will be (since you'll be two levels behind). Now, you can compensate for that by having more HP in your Druid form, along with having Barbarian features, but it really hurts your spellcasting.


My recommendation is to grab one level into Barbarian, cast a Concentration spell (Barkskin, Moonbeam, Conjure Animals) and Wildshape at the start of the fight. Once your Concentration falls off, you can afford to Rage for the remainder of the fight. Pack a ton of melee-oriented spells, like Thunderwave, Shocking Grasp or Fog Cloud so you can make a clean getaway for a breather to dive back in.

[Edit] Heh, Nickl and I had the same idea.

[Bannan_mantis]

after some talking to my DM I have found out that I am going to be using a level 7 character for the campaign so I have 3 main ideas for level distribution.

A) Barbarian 1 / Druid 6
Most spell slots for healing and CR 2 forms

B) Barbarian 3 / Druid 4
Reckless attack means higher damage and also danger sense actually makes it so this character is good for all of the main saving throws (wisdom + constitution + dexterity) and then also you have subclasses and I think totem works the best thematically

C) Barbarian 5 / Druid 2
This is the most offensive of the 3 builds with it combining Shillelagh and extra attack to do a average of around 15 damage (with +3 wis) or 17 damage (with +4 wisdom.)

Also for feats and ASIs I am mainly considering sentinel, +2 wisdom or tavern brawler. Tavern brawler can be used in wildshape to increase attack bonus and then sentinel is well sentinel, enough said. +2 wisdom seems like a very safe bet, as it's the druid's casting stat and also a main saving throw, but also tavern brawler and sentinel are much more defender style abilities.

[Yunru]

Edit: remembered my GM won't allow marital arts in wildshape forms so sorry if that edit causes confusion.
Yes but why?
If it's because they rule that natural weapons don't count as unarmed strikes, congrats, they're weapons! Go Warlock.

Ignoring that much though, Monk has the superior AC calculation, as you can max your Wisdom and have it carry over.
At some point you're going to want Extra Attack, as it really boosts the single-attack forms (or heck, even the pouncers since you won't be using your bonus action for Martial Arts). If you want my suggestion for subclass, Long Death. Long Death is amazing because it also boosts your beast form's survivability, something much needed in a Moon Druid MC.

EDIT: It's also and easier multiclass, as you only need Wis and Dex, rather than Wis, Con and Str.

[Bannan_mantis]

Yes but why?
If it's because they rule that natural weapons don't count as unarmed strikes, congrats, they're weapons! Go Warlock.

Ignoring that much though, Monk has the superior AC calculation, as you can max your Wisdom and have it carry over.
At some point you're going to want Extra Attack, as it really boosts the single-attack forms (or heck, even the pouncers since you won't be using your bonus action for Martial Arts). If you want my suggestion for subclass, Long Death. Long Death is amazing because it also boosts your beast form's survivability, something much needed in a Moon Druid MC.

EDIT: It's also and easier multiclass, as you only need Wis and Dex, rather than Wis, Con and Str.

He ruled that because it'd be A)bit too op in his eyes and B)you learn martial arts as a human and anything that isn't a primate have a physiology that's too different for you to use your skills.

Besides that your suggestion is worthwhile but I think barbarian fits more thematically and also more as a tank. The moon druid's self healing isn't actually a spell even though you expend a spell slot so the healing is virtually doubled. Then once you consider grappling barbarian becomes a much more effective dip for tanking IMO, that said monk dip is still good and more versatile but since I'm going for more of a tank I'll take barb.

[Guy Lombard-O]

How often do you run out of spells, or have to rely on magic to solve your problems?

Honestly, almost never.

I'm a very conservative player when it comes to spell slots. I try hard not to use them up unless the battle seems to be getting away from us. I generally open with a good concentration spell like Spike Growth to lock down/nerf some of the creatures, then help our party focus-fire the remaining threats with simple weapon attacks/Shillelagh or a cantrip until the concentration spell's utility is wearing off. Wildshaped creatures don't have the AC to avoid many hits, and many hits = end of concentration, so I hold off on that as long as practicable. Then I'll rage attack for one round, then wildshape next round.

I also have been able to use wildshape to solve many of the out-of-combat problems so far, leaving my spell slots for combat or in reserve.

I try hard to conserve a first level slot for a bedtime Goodberry, and a second level slot for a bedtime Darkvision. Only hit 6th level recently, haven't had much chance to cast a 3rd level spell yet.

[Corpsecandle717]

One thing to keep in mind (refuse to say bear), even while raging your spell slots have value. Moon druids can convert spells slots in healing while in wildshape, and since it's not a spell you can do so while raged. It's not the most efficient use of your spell slots, but with the resistance from rage I figure it'll be pretty dang effective.

[NaughtyTiger]

If barb works thematically, then go for it.
If you make it all the way to Barb 3:
totem - bear -> help yourself
totem - wolf -> help your buddies
ancestral -> be the center of attention (take all the hits, die faster)

But if you can make monk work RP-wise, then Yunru is right about monk AC (if DM is okay with AC part.)

[Yunru]

If barb works thematically, then go for it.
If you make it all the way to Barb 3:
totem - bear -> help yourself
totem - wolf -> help your buddies
ancestral -> be the center of attention (take all the hits, die faster)

But if you can make monk work RP-wise, then Yunru is right about monk AC (if DM is okay with AC part.)

I'm also right about Long Death Temp HP :P
Of course, if you're not going Monk, that's a bit of a dip. But consider having a glance at the Warlock. 16 Charisma would get you 4 TempHP every time you down an enemy with the Fiend patron.

[NaughtyTiger]

I'm also right about Long Death Temp HP :P
Of course, if you're not going Monk, that's a bit of a dip. But consider having a glance at the Warlock. 16 Charisma would get you 4 TempHP every time you down an enemy with the Fiend patron.

i am conflicted about the temp HP on a kill.
kill sniping is a common thing (even unintentionally) and our fiend-warlock could never get the HP...

[djreynolds]

If you don't mind stats that are not optimal, try OoA paladin and druid.

Keep strength where it is. No metal armor. Use flame blade

[Vogie]

Also, because it's worth mentioning, Going to a third level of Warlock would allow you to pick a bladepact.

That is, using an action to summon a weapon that you're automatically proficient with.

Without casting a spell.

Does that Gorilla have a... a Polearm?

Yes.

Yes it does.

Polearm Master Ape

[Man_Over_Game]

Also, because it's worth mentioning, Going to a third level of Warlock would allow you to pick a bladepact.

That is, using an action to summon a weapon that you're automatically proficient with.

Without casting a spell.

Does that Gorilla have a... a Polearm?

Yes.

Yes it does.

Polearm Master Ape

Or Flame Blade.

My personal favorite solution to my problems is to arm my army of Conjure Animal apes with Magic Stones.

[sambojin]

7th level start? Really want to multi-class? Extra tanky? But druid?

Easy.

Moon Druid 5/Monk 1/Cleric 1. Whatever cleric, choose your poison.

Get all the things. And next level you get CR2 shapes as well, and magic attacks.
Do not tell me slot-shifting druid prepared spells from a cleric level doesn't make you tankier.

But yeah. Honestly, just all Druid is better.

Or Druid 6/ Cleric 1. This is incredibly good. Work out precisely how many spells you can now prepare. And the fact that you start with CR2 forms with magic weapons. With a cleric gimmick that's usually based off your Wis-modifier. And basic Bless access, that makes your wildshape restrain-on-hit forms a lot more likely to do so. And more cantrips (can even gain Wizard cantrips with Lore?/Arcana? Cleric).

I'm not saying you shouldn't take a Monk level later. +1-4AC is nice. But you can use lvl1 cleric ribbons in wildshape with some types of cleric, or just do druiding with extra magic and wildshape form "healy or attacky" spell slots with the D6/C1 split.

If you're not willing to have a few more spells prepared each day for any eventuality and a gimmick to use a few times a day, then you are not ready for druiding. Bear is good. But it is not what makes Moon Druids great (though it helps a lot). An extra lvl1 spell list is WAY easier to know than the entire list of beasts in 5e. Or all the weird stuff Druid spells can do, the stuff you have to consider on using them, where cleric spells just do a "thing". A good thing. And you just got to pick way more druid-weird-tricks for that dip.

It's usually best to look at Wildshape at lvls 5-9 as a free "spell" for Moon Druids, several times a day... A good one. That helps you tank. And can do other stuff too. But your *real* spells, they're f'ing incredible. And with a druid/cleric run, you can now have all the higher level druid spells you could possibly ever need prepared, as well as a 4-6 lvl1 cleric spells that are allowing you to do that. If you look at the dip as "you can now prepare 3-4 extra Druid spells of any level you can cast each day", then you realize how powerful that is. Especially considering it's a fully known spell list to choose from.

Focus on that and you'll be laughing. You get free HP, movement, slightly higher "action-use-damage" (DPR) and condition generation on enemies "for free!" with Wildshape. So why spend resources on something that's good by default, when you can really be awesome at magic as well with a 1lvl dip in cleric?

[sambojin]

Essentially, you'll be good at damage at level 2-4 as a Moon Druid, you'll be pretty good at tanking and condition inducing at lvl4-9 as well, but you won't be great. If you want to be good at tanking and/or damage causing from lvl5+, choose a different class. But you'll be ok'ish at them. And a pretty good caster, even as a Moon Druid. Crank that up to "actually a good caster" with a cleric dip, still have it as "slightly better tank/condition generator" in wildshape, and "didn't lose spell slots due to the dip", and you're laughing.

Even a monk or barb druid is "just" a damage sponge. Give me and my party +to-hit, so I can restrain/prone-stomp/blind/paralyze people (or I can just help my summons do this), and maybe be a bit tankier due to lvl1 class ribbons and no spell slot loss, on one of the tankiest classes in the game? Yep. Sounds a lot better. Druid x/Cleric 1 it is :)

You're a Moon Druid. You get to "solve" 1-3 encounters a day with Wildshape. You don't have a lack of "spell" resources, nor HP. All you need is more prepared spells to utilize, and maybe some gimmicks for when it hits the fan.

You can be everything from "primary healer and friend maker" (a day of food and +4HP is a wonderful gift for one berry), to "extra tank" (nope, warded that hit), to "you don't want to see me when I'm angry" (caster-form ribbon popping with Shillelagh), to Dr Doolittle (hey kitty. Where?). Fine as a warrior build too. Lizards are all about practicality and the ability to do stuff with few resources. See if you can get by the metal armour exlusion with your DM if you can. Your God literally said it was fine for you to wear proper heavy armour so you could do stuff for him, even as a Druid.

[Man_Over_Game]

You're a Moon Druid. You get to "solve" 1-3 encounters a day with Wildshape. You don't have a lack of "spell" resources, nor HP. All you need is more prepared spells to utilize, and maybe some gimmicks for when it hits the fan.

Wildshape has two uses and refreshes on a Short Rest.

Even if you have a DM who prefers to have a small number of encounters with a Short Rest in-between, you can still Wildshape once for the utility and then save your second charge for combat. Worst case scenario, your DM is a jerk and throws an unexpected 2nd encounter at you without a Short Rest, and you just be a fullcasting Druid with Medium Armor, full spell slots, and full HP for the last fight before a Short Rest.

Sorry, the point I'm trying to say is that, even if your DM only does 3 fights a day, as long as your Party can fit in Short Rests, you can solve just as many non-combat encounters.

[Mitchellnotes]

I think the hard thing even with dips as a moon druid is that multiclassing hurts moon druids more than most classes. For most classes, even if you multiclass, your prof bonus continues to scale. However, moon druid forms use the sheet bonuses of their forms, so falling behind really causes your to hit to lag.

[Guy Lombard-O]

I think the hard thing even with dips as a moon druid is that multiclassing hurts moon druids more than most classes. For most classes, even if you multiclass, your prof bonus continues to scale. However, moon druid forms use the sheet bonuses of their forms, so falling behind really causes your to hit to lag.

It lags pretty substantially even without multiclassing. A one-level dip isn't really that significant.