How do the Runesmith PrC, Eschew Materials Feat, and Snowcasting Feat interact?

[cassal]

Questions about how this PrC and these feat interact

I am aware that Eschew Materials does not avoid the rune material component. I also aware that Eschew Materials could work on the snow material component of Snowcasting. What I am unsure of are these:

1. When are the additional material components spent for a Runesmith? At rune creation or when casting the spell?

2.When would the snow from Snowcasting be applied? At rune creation or while casting?

3. What are your thoughts or opinions on allowing Eschew Materials to remove the snow requirement for Snowcasting?

Here's my thoughts:

In my opinion when a Runesmith creates a rune he is casting the spell into the rune. Therefore he can spends any cost associated with that spell upon creating the rune or runes. He would could chose to spend any material components at that time as well as spend any meta-magic feats. This is supported in my opinion by two things. One, Runesmith eventually gets the ability to create shareable runes that activate via spell trigger, heavily implying all the magic needed to cast it is contained within the rune. The second is a mechanical one, if a Runesmith prepares all their spells per day as runes, without applying meta-magic then they are functionally prevented from using meta-magic that day. The only way to avoid this would be to create the rune at spell level and leaving a slot open (ie not creating a rune) for the increased spell level. This SEVERELY handicaps Runesmiths as it functionally prevents them from using meta-magic.

Since material components and other spell increases(meta-magic) are spent at rune creation, Snowcasting snow is spent at creation as well. As far as how Eschew Materials and Snowcasting interact, I'd say RAW EM eliminates all components, snow included. I'd probably go with a RAI interpretation that the snow falls under the 1 GP or more provided it isn't readily available. If it is (like being on a glacier) it's a moot point anyways.

What are your guys thoughts on this?

[BowStreetRunner]

What are your thoughts or opinions on allowing Eschew Materials to remove the snow requirement for Snowcasting?A spell cast with Eschew Materials can be cast with no material components. But they don't have to be. You can cast without them normally, but you may choose to include them if there is some additional benefit to do so. One such benefit would be Snowcasting. If you add a handful of snow or ice as an additional material component to a spell when you cast it with Snowcasting, the spell gains the cold descriptor. If you don't add it, it doesn't get the boost.

These are optional variables to your casting. A Runesmith with Eschew Materials and Snowcasting can cast the same spell in any of the following combinations of normal material components, rune components, and snow component:

Material Components, Rune Component, Snow Component. Result is a rune with the snowcasting boost.
Material Components, Rune Component, No Snow Component. Result is a rune without the snowcasting boost.
Material Components, No Rune Component, Snow Component. Result is a spell with the snowcasting boost.
Material Components, No Rune Component, No Snow Component. Result is a spell without the snowcasting boost.
No Material Components, Rune Component, Snow Component. Result is a rune with the snowcasting boost.
No Material Components, Rune Component, No Snow Component. Result is a rune without the snowcasting boost.
No Material Components, No Rune Component, Snow Component. Result is a spell with the snowcasting boost.
No Material Components, No Rune Component, No Snow Component. Result is a spell without the snowcasting boost.

Note that the first four are going to be unnecessary unless there is another reason to use material components.

[cassal]

Thanks @BowStreet! That's really helpful.

When would the materials be spent? In creating the runes? or when the runes are cast?

[BowStreetRunner]

When would the materials be spent? In creating the runes? or when the runes are cast?When the runes are cast. Creating the runes is merely the Runesmith's way of preparing spells for the day.

[magic9mushroom]

Thanks @BowStreet! That's really helpful.

When would the materials be spent? In creating the runes? or when the runes are cast?

The materials are the runes themselves, not whatever they're written on. As such, you create them when you write them and you spend them when you cast them.

Note that nothing about Rune Magic actually costs anything (except maybe whatever you write the runes on, but those are reusable). The reason the material component cannot be avoided is because the rune represents the prepared spell; if you could cast it without using up the rune, you would suddenly have infinite spells/day.

Since we're discussing Runesmith... the capstone Permanent Rune has a big honking loophole in it. It's fairly balanced for getting a 2/day SLA of spells with material or focus components (you have to spend 20x material cost or 1x focus cost, so you'd have to pay 500k for True Rez or 1,500 for Shapechange), but it's ridiculously powerful for spells with XP components (you only have to spend 1x the XP cost). Using it on Wish, of course, breaks the game in half, but the XP-divinations (Commune and Vision) are almost as bad for a campaign. Just don't go there.

[cassal]

The materials are the runes themselves, not whatever they're written on. As such, you create them when you write them and you spend them when you cast them.

I understand that about the runes themselves, I was more talking about the additional material components or making metamagic changes. I.E. the 10k gp diamond for Resurrection or the snow for Snowcasting.


Since we're discussing Runesmith... the capstone Permanent Rune has a big honking loophole in it... ....Using it on Wish, of course, breaks the game in half.
Yeah... a permanent Wish rune is broken. I'd probably house rule that it has to be of 5th level or lower or something like that.

[magic9mushroom]

I understand that about the runes themselves, I was more talking about the additional material components or making metamagic changes. I.E. the 10k gp diamond for Resurrection or the snow for Snowcasting.

You spend material components when you cast a spell. Just preparing a spell doesn't use its materials; that'd be really harsh.


Yeah... a permanent Wish rune is broken. I'd probably house rule that it has to be of 5th level or lower or something like that.

In fairness, you can only get the permanent Wish rune in epic due to having to sacrifice a spell slot one level higher (you'd need to take Improved Spell Capacity). Still broken, though, even in epic.

And it's really not that bad for high-level spells as long as they do not have XP costs. The slot cost is worse than that of Archmage, and you had to take 5 PrC levels to do it (admittedly of a good PrC). I mean, even for an Archmage, giving up a 9th-level and 5th-level slot for Time Stop SLA 2/day is good, but it's not going to break the campaign in half the way SLA Wish or SLA Commune do.