Aranea (Race) [PEACH]

[Sir_Popard]

So it's me again, trying to craft another spider-aspected 5e race (see my previous attempts at drider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581769-Drider-(Race)-PEACH) and chitine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?577607-Chitine-(Race)-PEACH&p=23609331#post23609331) races). Trying to whittle down creatures that have already been established within 5e has had mixed results so I'm trying something a little different. This is a less monstrous variant of the aranea, a bit closer to what shifters are to lycanthropes. They appear mostly human aside from some cosmetic arachnid traits. I feel like they're missing something, mechanically, and if I could find a functional way to implement the shape-shifting angle (again, something like shifters) I would go with that.

I do need to revisit the Detect Balance (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vq1kz6PRAbw5LHy6amH-bNb4OuB8DBXL1RsZROt03Sc/edit#gid=0) document to double-check their current write-up. Will get to that soon.

So there are two versions:

ARANEA TRAITS
Your aranea character has the following traits.
Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 2 and your Charisma score increases by 1.
Age. Aranea reach maturity around age 15 and can live up to 350 years.
Alignment. Aranea tend toward neutrality.
Size. Aranea range from under 5 to over 6 feet tall and have slender builds. Your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision. You have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Monstrosity. Your creature type is monstrosity, rather than humanoid.
Poison Resistance. You have advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage
Weaver’s Gift. You have proficiency with artisan’s tools (weaver’s tools) and are always treated as having both the tools and high-quality materials needed to create or repair silk items.
Shapechanger. As a bonus action, you can polymorph into a giant spider with an eerily human face and forearms (your statistics are the same in each form). This transformation lasts for one minute, until you die, or until you revert to your normal appearance as a bonus action. Any equipment you are wearing or carrying isn't transformed; You choose whether your Equipment falls to the ground in your space or merges into your new form. Once you shift, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest.
You gain the benefits described below.

Spider Climb. You can climb difficult surfaces, including upside down on ceilings, without needing to make an ability check. You have a climbing speed of 30 feet.
Venomous Bite. You can use your sharp fangs to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with your bite, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier, and your target must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier). On a failed save, the target takes 1d6 poison damage and is Poisoned for a number of rounds equal to your proficiency bonus. The target can repeat this saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the condition on a success.
This attack's damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th Level (2d6), 11th level (3d6) and 17th level (4d6).
Web-Slinger. You have proficiency with nets. Once, and one additional time at 5th level, you can create a net from your own silk and attack with it as part of one Attack action. Nets created this way count as finesse weapons, cannot be wielded by anyone but you, and have a Strength DC to break free equal to 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus. You regain use of this ability when you finish a short or long rest, at which point any other nets you have created fall apart into harmless cobwebs.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and Sylvan.


For reference, the original draft
ARANEA (SORCERY) TRAITS
Your aranea character has the following traits.
Ability Score Increase. Your Charisma score increases by 2 and your Dexterity score increases by 1.
Age. Aranea reach maturity around age 15 and can live up to 350 years.
Alignment. Aranea tend toward neutrality.
Size. Aranea range from under 5 to over 6 feet tall and have slender builds. Your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Spider Climb. You can climb difficult surfaces, including upside down on ceilings, without needing to make an ability check. You have a climbing speed of 30 feet.
Fey. Your creature type is fey, rather than humanoid.
Weaver’s Gift. You have proficiency with artisan’s tools (weaver’s tools) and are always treated as having both the tools and materials needed to create or repair silk items.
Web Walker. You ignore Movement restrictions caused by webbing.
Innate Spellcasting. You know the poison spray cantrip. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast snare once without material components, and it recharges after a long rest. When you reach 5th level, you can cast web once, and it recharges after a long rest. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and Sylvan.

[nickl_2000]

I get 28 points, but that isn't counting the Fey ancestry. Gut feeling is that would increase it by around 3, which still puts you in the range of the book classes.


The only thing I see that is a little bit odd is that you get +2 charisma and your casting stat for innate spells is wisdom. That is against the normal, typicially the casting stat on innate spells is something that the class gets a bonus to.

[Sir_Popard]

I get 28 points, but that isn't counting the Fey ancestry. Gut feeling is that would increase it by around 3, which still puts you in the range of the book classes.


The only thing I see that is a little bit odd is that you get +2 charisma and your casting stat for innate spells is wisdom. That is against the normal, typicially the casting stat on innate spells is something that the class gets a bonus to.

The Detect Balance guide suggests "a type other than humanoid" would cost 2 points.

Ah, I'm glad you caught that discrepancy. That was missed in the editing (Just a reminder, kids: multitasking is dangerous).

Thank you for the feedback.

[Marcotix]

The Detect Balance guide suggests "a type other than humanoid" would cost 2 points.

Ah, I'm glad you caught that discrepancy. That was missed in the editing (Just a reminder, kids: multitasking is dangerous).

Thank you for the feedback.

I would consider ditching fey ancestry and instead augment web walker to ignore all difficult terrain. It's less niche and free's up these guys to be put to use in the prime. Pretty significant change to narrative though so YMMV.

[Sir_Popard]

I would consider ditching fey ancestry and instead augment web walker to ignore all difficult terrain. It's less niche and free's up these guys to be put to use in the prime. Pretty significant change to narrative though so YMMV.

I'm not trying to be pedantic but they don't have the elf racial trait "Fey Ancestry" which provides advantage vs Charm effects and immunity to magically induced sleep. They literally have the fey creature type (similar to centaurs in Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica). While they're not as monstrous as traditional aranea, it allows them to maintain that otherworldly, nonhuman feel.

At the point where they have a climb speed and can ignore difficult terrain, the flavor does get a bit... weird. It almost feels like I might as well just give them a fly speed.

Thank you for the feedback.

[Marcotix]

I'm not trying to be pedantic but they don't have the elf racial trait "Fey Ancestry" which provides advantage vs Charm effects and immunity to magically induced sleep. They literally have the fey creature type (similar to centaurs in Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica). While they're not as monstrous as traditional aranea, it allows them to maintain that otherworldly, nonhuman feel.

At the point where they have a climb speed and can ignore difficult terrain, the flavor does get a bit... weird. It almost feels like I might as well just give them a fly speed.

Thank you for the feedback.

Fly may be a little much, but allowing mastery of web walking to translate into immunity to difficult terrain seems like a sound choice. Sorry I didn't notice they were true fey. It's probably fine as is too.

[Sir_Popard]

Fly may be a little much, but allowing mastery of web walking to translate into immunity to difficult terrain seems like a sound choice. Sorry I didn't notice they were true fey. It's probably fine as is too.

I'm not suggesting giving them a Fly speed, I'm mostly concerned that, by the time you can circumvent most ground-based obstacles (regardless of whether they have a ceiling or not), most DMs might consider the ability nearly equivalent to flying. Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid.

No worries. I hope I didn't sound testy but you were the second person to miss that element, so I wanted to clarify.

In turn, thank you for clarifying your point.

[Sir_Popard]

I do feel remiss in the "were-spider" race not having any shape-changing, so I'm trying to draft a version that represents their more spidery-powers in shifting stints more so than innate spell-casting. I've admittedly not found an elegant way to power the web-throwing ability for a player race (they get access to the spider form for 1 minute per short rest so giving them a random chance to regain the ability doesn't seem unsound). Any suggestions would be appreciated.

ARANEA TRAITS
Your aranea character has the following traits.
Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 2 and your Charisma score increases by 1.
Age. Aranea reach maturity around age 15 and can live up to 350 years.
Alignment. Aranea tend toward neutrality.
Size. Aranea range from under 5 to over 6 feet tall and have slender builds. Your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision. You have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Fey. Your creature type is fey, rather than humanoid.
Weaver’s Gift. You have proficiency with artisan’s tools (weaver’s tools) and are always treated as having both the tools and materials needed to create or repair silk items.
Shapechanger. As a bonus action, you can polymorph into a giant spider with an eerily human face and forearms (your statistics are the same in each form). This transformation lasts for one minute, until you die, or until you revert to your normal appearance as a bonus action. Any equipment you are wearing or carrying isn't transformed; You choose whether your Equipment falls to the ground in your space or merges into your new form. Once you shift, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest.
When you shift, you gain the following abilities:

Spider Climb. You can climb difficult surfaces, including upside down on ceilings, without needing to make an ability check. You have a climbing speed of 30 feet.
Venomous Bite. You can use your sharp fangs to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with your bite, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d4 + your Strength modifier, and your target must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier). On a failed save, the target takes 1d6 poison damage and is Poisoned for a number of rounds equal to damage dealt this way.
This attack's damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th Level (2d6), 11th level (3d6) and 17th level (4d6).
Web (Recharge 5-6): Make a ranged spell attack against the target (range 30/60). On a hit, the target is Restrained by webbing. As an action, the Restrained target can make a Strength check (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier), bursting the webbing on a success. The webbing can also be attacked and destroyed (AC 10; hp 5; vulnerability to fire damage; immunity to bludgeoning, poison, and psychic damage).
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and Sylvan.

[JNAProductions]

Venomous Bite is far, FAR too good.

One hit and failed save can paralyze for up to six rounds, no further saves. While that's unlikely, even ONE round of paralysis can be fatal, since everyone auto-crits you from melee range.

I'd make it the poisoned condition-at the ABSOLUTE most powerful, stunned. Definitely NOT paralyzed.

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

First thought: I'd usually expect spiders to have a dexterity bonus. They're so fast and spindly!

I was thinking of some more mundane ways to get a natural climbing bonus, but I'm actually kind of in love with the idea of gaining a climb speed while shifted and just not getting a bonus in human form. "How do you weirdos climb anything with only four limbs??"

Still, I think you need to decide whether you want to go the shapeshifting angle (like shifters) or the sorcery angle (like tieflings) - having a shapeshifter that then casts Web while shifted seems weird, even if it's just copying the effect quasi-mundanely. I can suggest a more non-magical version, though:

Web-slinger. You are proficient with the net. Once, and one additional time at 5th level, you can create a net from your own silk and attack with it as part of one Attack action. Nets created this way count as finesse weapons and cannot be wielded by anyone but you. You regain use of this ability when you finish a short or long rest, at which point any other nets you have created fall apart into harmless cobwebs.

To my opinion, I don't think web-walker really needs to be there at all. A climb speed already accomplishes the bulk of what you're going for with it. Even if you end up making a more powerful web trap by going the spell route, I'd suggest wording it to only hit enemies, because I'm also kind of in love with turning multi-spider combat into a full Splatoon situation.

[Sir_Popard]

Venomous Bite is far, FAR too good.

One hit and failed save can paralyze for up to six rounds, no further saves. While that's unlikely, even ONE round of paralysis can be fatal, since everyone auto-crits you from melee range.

I'd make it the poisoned condition-at the ABSOLUTE most powerful, stunned. Definitely NOT paralyzed.

Valid concerns. I did have reservations about this attack, but previous feedback on similar attacks suggested that natural attacks on PC raises were considered… suboptimal? Undesirable? So I thought I’d try to make something more tantalizing. This is a much more balanced direction, tho’.

Thank you for the feedback.


First thought: I'd usually expect spiders to have a dexterity bonus. They're so fast and spindly!

I was thinking of some more mundane ways to get a natural climbing bonus, but I'm actually kind of in love with the idea of gaining a climb speed while shifted and just not getting a bonus in human form. "How do you weirdos climb anything with only four limbs??"

Still, I think you need to decide whether you want to go the shapeshifting angle (like shifters) or the sorcery angle (like tieflings) - having a shapeshifter that then casts Web while shifted seems weird, even if it's just copying the effect quasi-mundanely. I can suggest a more non-magical version, though:

Web-slinger. You are proficient with the net. Once, and one additional time at 5th level, you can create a net from your own silk and attack with it as part of one Attack action. Nets created this way count as finesse weapons and cannot be wielded by anyone but you. You regain use of this ability when you finish a short or long rest, at which point any other nets you have created fall apart into harmless cobwebs.

To my opinion, I don't think web-walker really needs to be there at all. A climb speed already accomplishes the bulk of what you're going for with it. Even if you end up making a more powerful web trap by going the spell route, I'd suggest wording it to only hit enemies, because I'm also kind of in love with turning multi-spider combat into a full Splatoon situation.

You make a fair point about the Dexterity bonus. I was trying to cater to their abilities with Constitution-based saving throws which, in hindsight, was a mistake.

I’m still struggling with the sorcery vs shapeshifting angle. I like aspects of both versions, but I feel like the shape-shifting version resonates stronger with the concept.

My spidery races have generated some concern about balancing spider climb as a constant racial ability and I’ve wound up on the fence about including it, but at the point where they get access to it for 1 minute/short rest, I feel it balances well enough.

I really like the alternative you’ve presented in Web-Slinger. Let me make sure I understand tho': The phrase “Once, and one additional time at 5th level” means they can use this ability once per shift until 5th level when they can use it twice per shift? Is there a precedent in phrasing for weapons that only you can wield? Should the act of generating the net be a separate bonus action as opposed to being part of the attack action?
The only addition I'd consider making is giving it a Strength Check DC equal to 8 + Constitution + proficiency bonus.

As for Web-Walker, I mostly question why monstrous spiders are given web-walker when they have spider climb if the benefits overlap.

Thank you for the extensive feedback and suggestions. ^_^

[Marcotix]

I'm not suggesting giving them a Fly speed, I'm mostly concerned that, by the time you can circumvent most ground-based obstacles (regardless of whether they have a ceiling or not), most DMs might consider the ability nearly equivalent to flying. Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid.

No worries. I hope I didn't sound testy but you were the second person to miss that element, so I wanted to clarify.

In turn, thank you for clarifying your point.

Oh I see what you mean. Spider climb is definitely a great ability, especially when combined w/ ignoring difficult terrain, but spider climb + Ignore DC doesn't send my DM sense red flags the same way unrestricted fly speed does.

Maybe it should though, since as you point out once you have spider climb/ climb speed you can basically ignore verticality based obstacles.

In my time as a DM there would have been 1 time where spiderclimb/ climbspeed would have impacted the encounter challenge (a fortress wall climb) but entire swaths of that megadungeon would have been made considerably less challenging if one or more pc could fly.

[Marcotix]

I do feel remiss in the "were-spider" race not having any shape-changing, so I'm trying to draft a version that represents their more spidery-powers in shifting stints more so than innate spell-casting. I've admittedly not found an elegant way to power the web-throwing ability for a player race (they get access to the spider form for 1 minute per short rest so giving them a random chance to regain the ability doesn't seem unsound). Any suggestions would be appreciated.

ARANEA TRAITS
Your aranea character has the following traits.
Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 2 and your Charisma score increases by 1.
Age. Aranea reach maturity around age 15 and can live up to 350 years.
Alignment. Aranea tend toward neutrality.
Size. Aranea range from under 5 to over 6 feet tall and have slender builds. Your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision. You have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Fey. Your creature type is fey, rather than humanoid.
Weaver’s Gift. You have proficiency with artisan’s tools (weaver’s tools) and are always treated as having both the tools and materials needed to create or repair silk items.
Shapechanger. As a bonus action, you can polymorph into a giant spider with an eerily human face and forearms (your statistics are the same in each form). This transformation lasts for one minute, until you die, or until you revert to your normal appearance as a bonus action. Any equipment you are wearing or carrying isn't transformed; You choose whether your Equipment falls to the ground in your space or merges into your new form. Once you shift, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest.
When you shift, you gain the following abilities:

Spider Climb. You can climb difficult surfaces, including upside down on ceilings, without needing to make an ability check. You have a climbing speed of 30 feet.
Venomous Bite. You can use your sharp fangs to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with your bite, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d4 + your Strength modifier, and your target must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier). On a failed save, the target takes 1d6 poison damage and is Poisoned for a number of rounds equal to damage dealt this way.
This attack's damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th Level (2d6), 11th level (3d6) and 17th level (4d6).
Web (Recharge 5-6): Make a ranged spell attack against the target (range 30/60). On a hit, the target is Restrained by webbing. As an action, the Restrained target can make a Strength check (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier), bursting the webbing on a success. The webbing can also be attacked and destroyed (AC 10; hp 5; vulnerability to fire damage; immunity to bludgeoning, poison, and psychic damage).
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and Sylvan.

I think this is the winner.
Spider form is both interesting and useful, but because its limiting a player must still put thought into when to bust it out. Would you be able to make traps/ use the webbing as rope to haul things up?

[Sir_Popard]

Oh I see what you mean. Spider climb is definitely a great ability, especially when combined w/ ignoring difficult terrain, but spider climb + Ignore DC doesn't send my DM sense red flags the same way unrestricted fly speed does.

Maybe it should though, since as you point out once you have spider climb/ climb speed you can basically ignore verticality based obstacles.

In my time as a DM there would have been 1 time where spiderclimb/ climbspeed would have impacted the encounter challenge (a fortress wall climb) but entire swaths of that megadungeon would have been made considerably less challenging if one or more pc could fly.


I think this is the winner.
Spider form is both interesting and useful, but because its limiting a player must still put thought into when to bust it out. Would you be able to make traps/ use the webbing as rope to haul things up?

Thanks. I’m leaning more toward something like this version, too. I wanted the were-form to have some flexibility/utility in that way.

Yeah, in terms of the climb speed/difficult terrain thing, I’m looking at things from the player perspective and how DMs might perceive this and I might be over-cautious. Although at this point I’m dropping Web Walker as well, so I suppose it’s probably moot.

As for creating traps/rope, Weaver’s Gift grants them the ability the to create and repair silk items, so technically: yes? I did not elaborate on how fancy they can get but I assume they can craft basic silk-based gear and equipment (PHB-type stuff).

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

Did you mean to keep the web as a spell attack in the new version? Is the attack roll constitution-based? If that's the case, changing the physical bonus back to constitution might be a good idea after all.

I'm a bit leery of giving a PC race an ability with Recharge. I didn't even know monsters had Recharge in 5th edition. It's still as good as a low-level spell, so keeping it to once per shift shouldn't make anyone feel cheated.

Weaver's Gift is probably my favorite thing about homebrew spiders. It's amazing flavor, and is only as broken as the DM is willing to let it be when they set the check DCs for your goofy ideas.

[Sir_Popard]

Did you mean to keep the web as a spell attack in the new version? Is the attack roll constitution-based? If that's the case, changing the physical bonus back to constitution might be a good idea after all.

I'm a bit leery of giving a PC race an ability with Recharge. I didn't even know monsters had Recharge in 5th edition. It's still as good as a low-level spell, so keeping it to once per shift shouldn't make anyone feel cheated.

Weaver's Gift is probably my favorite thing about homebrew spiders. It's amazing flavor, and is only as broken as the DM is willing to let it be when they set the check DCs for your goofy ideas.

Your concerns are valid (and that spell attack thing was a typo, not intentional *sigh* Stupid typos). I had actually updated the opening post with the most recent versions of the race, the shapeshifter version having the ability you'd suggested.

I fully agree about web-crafting; it's a trait I feel any spider-aspected race or intelligent monster should have. I'd like to hope DMs will be generous with a fairly quirky, low-key ability.

[Rukelnikov]

I like the shapeshifting version, but I think the bite may be a little too powerful, maybe make it last proficiency rounds and allow for a save at the end of each turn to shake the condition off?

Also, not that its wrong since its somewhat arbitrary, but why not Monstrosity instead of Fey?

[Sir_Popard]

I like the shapeshifting version, but I think the bite may be a little too powerful, maybe make it last proficiency rounds and allow for a save at the end of each turn to shake the condition off?

Also, not that its wrong since its somewhat arbitrary, but why not Monstrosity instead of Fey?

Hmm. You make a fair point about the venomous bite. I would feel remiss in building a race with monstrous spider form without a venomous bite attack but I want the attack to be a viable option for players (and previous feedback suggest they're usually not). I wanted to be generous since it was available for a minutes a day (two depending on your DM), but the idea you present, though, seems a more balanced way to handle it.

...That is a good question. The more magical incarnation I originally drafted felt more fey to me than monstrous but, honestly, they've changed enough that monstrosity might be more appropriate. I hadn't revisited that part of the concept since its inception. I appreciate you pulling that thread.

Thank you for the feedback. I've adjusted the opening post to reflect your input.

[Rukelnikov]

Hmm. You make a fair point about the venomous bite. I would feel remiss in building a race with monstrous spider form without a venomous bite attack but I want the attack to be a viable option for players (and previous feedback suggest they're usually not). I wanted to be generous since it was available for a minutes a day (two depending on your DM), but the idea you present, though, seems a more balanced way to handle it.

...That is a good question. The more magical incarnation I originally drafted felt more fey to me than monstrous but, honestly, they've changed enough that monstrosity might be more appropriate. I hadn't revisited that part of the concept since its inception. I appreciate you pulling that thread.

Thank you for the feedback. I've adjusted the opening post to reflect your input.

Glad to be of help :smallsmile:

[Sir_Popard]

So I got some offline feedback suggesting they needed a bit more in their humanoid form so I borrowed the Dwarven resistance to poison (since venomous races, such as the naga and pureblood yuan-ti tend to end up with something similar). I've also firmly delineated the shifter version as the primary going forward.