As an insurance agent, they often tell us not to talk folks out of buying a product

[darkrose50]

People never cease to amaze me. I am an insurance agent, and was helping out a customer pick a healthcare plan. The plan he was being offered though COBRA though another company was better math-wise (in the US COBRA is an offer to keep your previous employers healthcare for 18 months, but the person pays the whole bill). He asked me my opinion, and I told him that it was up to him. My opinion would have been to select the COBRA plan (it was close enough, would not result in financial ruin, but in the unlikely case of something like a surgery he would end up paying ~$1500 more). He really surprised me when he decided to go with my company. They say that you should never talk someone out of buying something from you, but I think I now have a better understanding on how true that is. People are certainly confusing.

Edit: My boss mentioned that sometimes people want to distance themselves from an old employer. It could be that cutting all ties with the previous employer could be more important to the consumer than getting a plan with a similar cost, but with lessor benefits.

It is pretty much always the rule that COBRA (plans though an employer) will cost less and offer more than an individual plan (not always, but pretty much always).

[Peelee]

Imean, all you say was "the COBRA plan was better math-wise," but there are a ton of variables here. It could have been a low-deductible, high-cost plan where he would be getting less disposable income overall, but great coverage. Could have been high-deductible, low-cost plan. Do you know how healthy he is? How often he goes to the doctor? What conditions he has that require ongoing treatment? Whether he needs to go to specialists frequently?

People's needs differ. Right off the bat, for example, I can tell you about Blue Cross Federal, which has two flavors: Version 1 offers a $300 deductible and 15% co-insurance, while Version A offers no deductible and a 30% co-insurance. If you're hardly ever using your insurance, the no-deductible 30% co-ins is almost certainly the better plan, while if you have a lot of medical issues the $300 up front and 15% after beats it. Neither is better by itself, they are each better for different people. And that's about as close as you can possibly get to each other for different insurance plans, other ones vary wildly.

That's almost certainly why you're not allowed to offer advice; the company doesn't want to deal with the legal miasma that could come out of it.

[DaveOTN]

I think there are two related issues working in your favor here. One, this person is going to have to pick a new insurance plan sometime, as COBRA only lasts for 18 months. Since you're an insurance agent, you count the time spent comparing plans differently, but for the average person the time spent studying plan details and weighing the pros and cons is considerable, and stressful. If the two plans are roughly similar, then they may be thinking, why go through this again in a year and a half?

And second, by not pushing your plan too hard, you build up your credibility in the customer's eyes. Many salespeople, when asked for their opinion, would have said, "obviously, pick the plan I'm selling." By not doing that you appear to have their best interests at heart, which makes them more likely to choose your company. Most Americans have at least one horrible story of interacting with insurance companies - some have tons of them. People spend hours on the phone arguing over billing codes and trying to get mistaken charges fixed. If you give them the impression that your company is reasonable and civil to deal with (not even warm-hearted and generous, just reasonable and civil!) many of them will pay a little more upfront in the expectation that they can talk to a real person and get an honest answer a couple times a year when they need it.

I spent a considerable amount of time last December shopping around between the various plans my wife's employer offered and while my final selection was largely based on price, it sure helped that the company we went with had a salesperson who spoke fluent English, answered all my questions patiently, and took time out of her day to research items of interest to me and send me the appropriate information, whereas the other company's helpline was based out of the country and offered me scripted, standard answers or flat-out told me "We can't tell you that until you sign up."

[darkrose50]

"We can't tell you that until you sign up."

Oh this sinks so many sales. When talking with claims about a procedure it is like pulling teeth. Claims only wants to answer how much procedure X will cost, and that is only answerable if you are in the system as a customer. I think that it is selective hearing. Even if you ask "is procedure X generally covered" . . . they want to hear "how much would procedure X cost" . . . so that they can tell to you to piss off, and go back to playing solitaire or chatting up there friends. I specifically tell them that I am not looking for the cost of procedure X, and this mostly works.


Imean, all you say was "the COBRA plan was better math-wise," but there are a ton of variables here.

Basically just about everything was slightly better with the COBRA plan (usually the COBRA options are vastly superior, but not always). We have the competitor beat on doctor selection and being the oldest running company in the state. He did mention what could have been a concern about needing to pick out a new plan in 18-months anyhow, so that could be it.



That's almost certainly why you're not allowed to offer advice; the company doesn't want to deal with the legal miasma that could come out of it.

Oh I can give advice. Basically non-insurance agents cannot give advice. I can get into trouble for giving advice circumventing profitability. I cannot say do X and then Y will trigger your ability to get health insurance. If someone asks me if I do X, and then if Y occurs, then could I get health insurance . . . I could then probably say yes and not get into trouble. But showing folks how to drive a semi though a huge loop-hole in profitability is something that I can get in trouble for.

Oh you are uninsured, and need a $100,000 surgery? Here is how you can get the benefits of having insurance, and not have to pay for it until you need it . . . that would be a way to get fired quickly.

[Knaight]

Basically just about everything was slightly better with the COBRA plan (usually the COBRA options are vastly superior, but not always). We have the competitor beat on doctor selection and being the oldest running company in the state. He did mention what could have been a concern about needing to pick out a new plan in 18-months anyhow, so that could be it.

Depending on the propensity for employers to illegally screw you, that might not be the case - benefits you nominally have but can never actually claim because an employer will always find a way to interfere aren't real benefits at all.

[Peelee]

Depending on the propensity for employers to illegally screw you, that might not be the case - benefits you nominally have but can never actually claim because an employer will always find a way to interfere aren't real benefits at all.

Or the insurance company, which is even more notorious for this. For example, one insurance company I know will pay 100% for certain medical equipment, but only if it's dispensed by the same doctor who wrote the prescription. Now, the doc can legally sell it, but there's laws governing how they have to act so as to not create a conflict of interest, so most doctors (currently none in my area, for example) are not involved in selling 'em. Which means, surprise, you shoulder the entire cost, despite their promises.

Or another insurance company that claims breast pumps are 100% covered. Unless you directly ask if they will cover it if the baby is not premature, a multiple birth, or has congenital birth defects, of course, because in all other cases they reject the claim and it seems few customer advocates ever actually volunteer that information.

[darkrose50]

Oh insurance companies are not to be trusted. I was sick after a crash, and the insurance company basically told me that since the doctors could not figure it out, then that meant that I was not sick, and as a result they were not going to pay me. I was lucky that the VP of HR had my back.

The doctors were just about useless, and I had to figure it out on my own. Basically I had the rocks in my inner ear knocked loose, my sinuses were full and wet (sinusitis), and the rocks would roll around in my inner ear get stuck by the moisture and make me dizzy.

Getting multiple delivery systems of antihistamines helped the sinusitis (~80% better, but a cat here could get stuck and cause an infection), and talking a surgeon into sinus surgery helped a lot (I would say ~90% to 95% better). I still have the rocks in my head, but now they can roll around without getting stuck, and that is what was casing me to become dizzy.

[Jay R]

COBRA benefits end in 18 months, at which point you might not be insurable. There are reasons to get off of it quickly if you can.

[Get]

Oh insurance companies are not to be trusted. I was sick after a crash, and the insurance company basically told me that since the doctors could not figure it out, then that meant that I was not sick, and as a result they were not going to pay me. I was lucky that the VP of HR had my back.

The doctors were just about useless, and I had to figure it out on my own. Basically I had the rocks in my inner ear knocked loose, my sinuses were full and wet (sinusitis), and the rocks would roll around in my inner ear get stuck by the moisture and make me dizzy.

Getting multiple delivery systems of antihistamines helped the sinusitis (~80% better, but a cat here could get stuck and cause an infection), and talking a surgeon into sinus surgery helped a lot (I would say ~90% to 95% better). I still have the rocks in my head, but now they can roll around without getting stuck, and that is what was casing me to become dizzy.

I'm sorry to hear that, it sounds really awful. Good on you for getting better though.

[darkrose50]

COBRA benefits end in 18 months, at which point you might not be insurable. There are reasons to get off of it quickly if you can.

COBRA termination (it ending, not you cancelling) is a qualifying life event that will allow you to pick up and Affordable Care Act plan.

Most of the time the COBRA plan will be (a) better, and (b) more expensive.

I just had someone thinking about quitting his job, and wanted to know how much some insurance would be. His medication would be over $5,000 per month, and under his group plan it was just paid for.

[Maryring]

This thread makes me so happy I don't have to deal with health insurance. It seems like such a confusing mess.

[Peelee]

This thread makes me so happy I don't have to deal with health insurance. It seems like such a confusing mess.

Ah, it's pretty simple, really. You just imagine the easiest way the company can do things to make more money, and that's how they do it.