[3.5] Looking For Template

[Thurbane]

Hi all,

In a recent discussion, I went searching for a template that can be added to a large giant, and change it's type so it can can the Rapidstrike feat.


I assume there's no templates that would change type to aberration, dragon, elemental, magical beast, or plant that don't come with hefty LA? Would be nice to open up (Improved) Rapidstrike...


That's why I was hoping to find a template that would open up (Improved) Rapidstrike: Arachnoid, Corrupted by the Abyss, Greenbound, Half-Dragon, Half-Illithid, Insectile, Spellwarped, Symbiotic Creature and Yellow Musk Zombie are all either illegal for PCs, or come with unwanted LA and other side effects.

Any other suggestions? Ideally looking for something with low LA and/or low CR increase.

ShurikVch is usually really good at finding this stuff.

Cheers - T

[Troacctid]

This (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=12219.0) is the index I usually use for this type of thing. It looks like your best bet might be insectile creature (Savage Species) for +2 LA.

[Torpin]

draconic in races of the dragon is a 1 cr or 1 la adjust

[noob]

Is there is a feat for type changing?
Or can you just get an item of continuous abberate?

[Thurbane]

draconic in races of the dragon is a 1 cr or 1 la adjust

That doesn't actually change type to dragon, though, it only give the dragonblood subtype.

....although, would that be enough to qualify you for Rapidstrike?


Prerequisites: Dex 9, one or more pairs of natural weapons, aberration, dragon, elemental, magical beast, or plant type, base attack bonus +10.

...looking at Dragonblood Subtype: no. It qualifies you to use magic items that are only usable by dragons, and to take feats that have the subtype as a req. You can also be targeted by spells, effects, powers and abilities that affect dragons. But doesn't appear that you count as a dragon for feat selection.


This (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=12219.0) is the index I usually use for this type of thing. It looks like your best bet might be insectile creature (Savage Species) for +2 LA.

Thanks. Link is not working for me though?


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Is there is a feat for type changing?
Or can you just get an item of continuous abberate?

If either of those work, would be very good to know. Although I'd rather not rely on custom items.

[flappeercraft]

Is there is a feat for type changing?
Or can you just get an item of continuous abberate?

For the first time in history DWK can be used without needing countless discussions for something apparently. But this means rapidstrike only for kobolds.

Perhaps using Aberrate/Greater Visage of the Deity/PAO and some way to render it permanent/continuous magic item could work unless its PAO which just requires two castings. Astral Seed depending on interpretation might work.

Maybe an LA +1 template and LA buyoff could work?

[Troacctid]

Thanks. Link is not working for me though?
Works fine for me. You could try a Wayback Machine version and see if that helps.


If either of those work, would be very good to know. Although I'd rather not rely on custom items.
I don't know of any non-custom magic items that would change your type that way, although you could take three levels of Aberrant Paragon.


For the first time in history DWK can be used without needing countless discussions for something apparently. But only for kobolds.
Of course there are base races that qualify while being LA +0, but OP is a giant.


Perhaps using Aberrate/Greater Visage of the Deity/PAO and some way to render it permanent/continuous magic item could work unless its PAO which just requires two castings. Astral Seed depending on interpretation might work.
PAO gives you the level adjustment of the assumed form.


Maybe an LA +1 template and LA buyoff could work?
There is no LA +1 template.

[MisterKaws]

There's Dragonspawn from Dragonlance, but it's not usually considered legit.

Also it's pretty overpowered.

[ShurikVch]

It looks like the White Dragonspawn is the best bet there (LA +1)

Also, as a refuge in audacity, - Underdark doesn't printed LA for Half-Illithid template, which make it - technically - LA +0

[Thurbane]

Hmm, looking at spells and PrCs...

Spells:
Aberrate (aberration) 10 minutes/level
Aspect of the Earth Hunter (magical beast) 10 minutes/level
Displacer Form (magical beast) 1 round/level

PrCs/classes:
Aberrant Paragon 3 (aberration)
Bonded Summoner 10 (elemental)
Elemental Savant 10 (elemental)
Primeval 10 (magical beast)
Talontar Blightlord 10 (plant)
Winterhaunt of Iborighu 10 (elemental)

[Troacctid]

There's Dragonspawn from Dragonlance, but it's not usually considered legit.

Also it's pretty overpowered.


It looks like the White Dragonspawn is the best bet there (LA +1)

Also, as a refuge in audacity, - Underdark doesn't printed LA for Half-Illithid template, which make it - technically - LA +0
Dragonspawn can only be applied to humanoids and monstrous humanoids, and it changes the creature's type to monstrous humanoid, not dragon.

Half-illithid is listed as +5 LA in Fiend Folio.

[Thurbane]

There's Dragonspawn from Dragonlance, but it's not usually considered legit.

Also it's pretty overpowered.

It looks like the White Dragonspawn is the best bet there (LA +1)

Was there errata or an update? The version I'm looking at in the DCS says applicable to Humanoids or Monstrous Humanoids?

As above.


Half-illithid is listed as +5 LA in Fiend Folio.

To be fair, the Underdark version is pretty distinct from the FF version: enough so it may be considered a different template.

In any case, the whole no mention of LA = LA +0 would never fly at my table.

[ShurikVch]

Dragonspawn can only be applied to humanoids and monstrous humanoids, and it changes the creature's type to monstrous humanoid, not dragon.Dragonspawn template gone through several erratas and rewrites; version in Bestiary Of Krynn, Revised is both changes Type to Dragon, and allow Giants (as long as they're no bigger than Large)

[Troacctid]

Dragonlance Campaign Setting is the only 1st party Dragonlance book. If you want to get into 3rd party material, that's a whole can of worms right there.

[ShurikVch]

Dragonlance Campaign Setting is the only 1st party Dragonlance book. If you want to get into 3rd party material, that's a whole can of worms right there.So, do you suggesting to outright ignoring the official Errata?
Dragonspawn Template (Errata)
The following are changes to the dragonspawn template given in Chapter 7 of the Dragonlance Campaign Setting.
“Dragonspawn” is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid of Small, Medium, or Large size (hereafter known as the “base creature”).
Size and Type: Creature type changes to dragon with the augmented subtype and the same subtype as the dragon type (fire, cold, etc) of its creator. Size remains unchanged. Do not recalculate base attack bonus or saves.
Special Qualities: Add the following special quality to the template.
—Immunities: The creature gains immunity to sleep and paralysis effects, as well as immunity to the type of damage dealt by their breath weapon (acid, electricity, etc).

[Troacctid]

So, do you suggesting to outright ignoring the official Errata?
Wizards of the Coast never released an errata for Dragonlance Campaign Setting.

[Thurbane]

I'll consider Dragonspawn a semi-official option...

[TheCount]

Spellwarped makes you abberant, some Prcs makes you dragon or abberant

[Thurbane]

Spells:
Aberrate (aberration) 10 minutes/level
Aspect of the Earth Hunter (magical beast) 10 minutes/level
Displacer Form (magical beast) 1 round/level

Are there any ways to have a Persisted or Permanent version of any of these, without you having to be the caster? Maybe with a Skull Talisman or something like that?

Isn't there some kind of amulet or necklace that makes Polymorph effects permanent until you take it off? I'm assuming it's only for Polymorph and wouldn't work with Aberrate?

[Hackulator]

I did a search on a doc I have with like every 1st party template and found nothing with a LA less than 3.

[noob]

Are there any ways to have a Persisted or Permanent version of any of these, without you having to be the caster? Maybe with a Skull Talisman or something like that?

Isn't there some kind of amulet or necklace that makes Polymorph effects permanent until you take it off? I'm assuming it's only for Polymorph and wouldn't work with Aberrate?

if pathfinder content is allowed there is a ring that makes a single spell on you last forever.

[ShurikVch]

I did a search on a doc I have with like every 1st party template and found nothing with a LA less than 3.Insectile Creature (Savage Species) and Elephantine Creature (Dangerous Denizens) are both LA: +2

[Bronk]

I did a search on a doc I have with like every 1st party template and found nothing with a LA less than 3.

The half-celestial template was updated in BoED to have a variable LA based on the HD of the base creature. For most LA+0 player character races with no RHD, that comes out to +2LA.

[Thurbane]

The half-celestial template was updated in BoED to have a variable LA based on the HD of the base creature. For most LA+0 player character races with no RHD, that comes out to +2LA.

But outsider doesn't allow access to Rapidstrike...

[Bronk]

But outsider doesn't allow access to Rapidstrike...

True, that was a bit of a tangent!

[Bronk]

But outsider doesn't allow access to Rapidstrike...

True, that did end up being a bit of a tangent!

[Thurbane]

True, that was a bit of a tangent!

Fair enough. I'm assuming though, that Hackulator meant less than +2 that fits my criteria.


if pathfinder content is allowed there is a ring that makes a single spell on you last forever.

There used to be a ring like that in 1E as well.

I"m sure I'm not imagining the item I mentioned for 3E...but I just can't find it.

[MisterKaws]

Are there any ways to have a Persisted or Permanent version of any of these, without you having to be the caster? Maybe with a Skull Talisman or something like that?

Isn't there some kind of amulet or necklace that makes Polymorph effects permanent until you take it off? I'm assuming it's only for Polymorph and wouldn't work with Aberrate?

If your DM is okay with polymorph-only feats, you could always stack Polymorph Any Object and turn yourself into a squid first. Pretty much all Aberrations have tentacles. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Caudex Capite]

If you can get hold of and use a Schema of Metamagic Item and can have (at least temporarily) the Persistent Spell feat, and you rule that Touch spells are Persistable, you can probably persist Aberrate from a(n Eternal) Wand. That's probably not very helpful, though. Displacer Form and Aspect of the Earth Hunter are Personal, so they would work even if Aberrate doesn't, but that gets expensive fast, since they start at 4th level. No Eternal Wand and a much higher base price, on top of them being pretty restrictive comparatively.

[Thurbane]

So just FYI, the item I was thinking of was the Phylactery of Change, Arms & Equipment Guide. It doesn't do what I thought it did...more or less, it's a 1/day Polymorph that lasts until you take off the phylactery.

Quite an abusable item for the price, but not particularly useful for what I was looking for.

[ShurikVch]

FWIW, Shadow Creature template - before the Lords of Madness - always changed creature Type to the Magical Beast