infinate actions in the same round

[xyamius]

had a player in my group point this out to me and still going???? and I checked for errata on it and couldn't find anything. After 3 rounds.

if you have people in the group with white raven tactics that can recover the maneuver in the same round and use it on each other they can keep going into the negative. yes my players are plotting this as a group due to they are about to level.

Just wanting to see if they are correct.

This is due to the crusader recovers a spent maneuver at the end of their turn per page 10 of TOB. So player 1 spends to bump 2 to -1 below (1 recovers due to end of turn and only had 1 spent to recover so was white raven), player 2 bumps 1 to -1 below and 2 recovers due to white raven was only spent available also.) rinse repeat for round till everything is dead due to white raven is a swift and they have their standard and move actions or can do full attack.

Is this correct?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Nope. Crusaders don't recover a spent maneuver at the end of each round, they're granted another maneuver that they had readied but hadn't been granted yet. Assuming a L1 crusader, they start combat with a random 2 of their five readied maneuvers, say maneuver 3 and maneuver 5. At the end of each round they get another one; in this case one of maneuvers 1, 2, or 4, again chosen randomly. This goes on until they end a round with all of their maneuvers granted, then the process resets (back to two maneuvers). So you can't get White Raven Tactics twice in a row unless it's the final turn of the cycle, at which point it resets and you recover some of your maneuvers (whether they were spent or not), but you're still not guaranteed to get WTR in the first round of the next cycle.

Warblades come closer to pulling this off. They start with all their readied maneuvers, and get all their spent ones back with just a swift action (following an attack), so they can get two turns in a row using WTR, recovering it in the second turn so they can use it again next round. Still not infinite, but almost doubling the action economy is nothing to sniff at.

EDIT: there is an incredibly cheesy build known as the "Idiot Crusader" that is built around ensuring that they only know as many maneuvers as are granted in the first round of the cycle, arguably causing it to reset every turn since there are no more maneuvers to grant them and thus ensuring that they are granted all of their readied maneuvers every single turn. With this build you could get infinite turns, but it doesn't sound like your players have anything this complicated going on.

[Eldariel]

That said, this does showcase one of the problems with White Raven Tactics and I think it's perfectly reasonable to houserule that you can only be affected by it once per round; Ruby Knight Vindicator in particular can do nasty stuff with WRT (basically take turns as long as they have Turn attempts remaining...and you can have a lot). This does nothing to hurt its usual use (give allies extra turns; I also like ruling that you can't use it on yourself as that's almost always the best use) but does stamp out some of the easy abuse potential (to be fair, similar provisos should be applied to Celerity and its ilk).

[Darrin]

An Idiot Crusader can get an obscene amount of actions with White Raven Tactics by RAW, but the combo isn't infinite due to this sentence in the PHB (page 133):

"When everyone has had a turn, the combatant with the highest initiative acts again, and steps 4 and 5 repeat until combat ends."

This means the Idiot Crusader can keep acting on a lower initiative count for as long as one of the combatants hasn't acted yet. Assuming your initiative roll is 15-ish and somebody else rolls very low, you could get a dozen or so full turns before you have to delay/ready an action to start again at the top of the next round (assuming anyone else is left standing).

It's an impressive trick, but it's not really possible until ECL 16-17, and you may get some books thrown at your head.

[Caudex Capite]

There are some genuinely infinite (or at least, arbitrarily long) turn/action loops out there, as well, but it doesn't sound like your group is attempting any of those. There are lots of variations involving Psionics (most of which require the use of the Metamind's Font of Power for infinite PP), and some others which tend to be more complicated (I think there's a weird probabilistic one Artificers can pull off using a staff of Alaunghaer's Triptych, a wand of Power Surge, and a wand of Celerity, but it relies on a couple of questionable rules points).

[JMS]

There are some genuinely infinite (or at least, arbitrarily long) turn/action loops out there, as well, but it doesn't sound like your group is attempting any of those. There are lots of variations involving Psionics (most of which require the use of the Metamind's Font of Power for infinite PP), and some others which tend to be more complicated (I think there's a weird probabilistic one Artificers can pull off using a staff of Alaunghaer's Triptych, a wand of Power Surge, and a wand of Celerity, but it relies on a couple of questionable rules points).

Yeah, for action economy, you want Psionics: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9867738&postcount=1
Grab an option for NI power points, and take a look at the “Mad Minute”

[exelsisxax]

An Idiot Crusader can get an obscene amount of actions with White Raven Tactics by RAW, but the combo isn't infinite due to this sentence in the PHB (page 133):

"When everyone has had a turn, the combatant with the highest initiative acts again, and steps 4 and 5 repeat until combat ends."

This means the Idiot Crusader can keep acting on a lower initiative count for as long as one of the combatants hasn't acted yet. Assuming your initiative roll is 15-ish and somebody else rolls very low, you could get a dozen or so full turns before you have to delay/ready an action to start again at the top of the next round (assuming anyone else is left standing).

It's an impressive trick, but it's not really possible until ECL 16-17, and you may get some books thrown at your head.

I don't see how an idiot crusader can gain ANY extra actions without a WRT capable ally. WRT changes your initiative instantly, so your current turn becomes the new initiative. It doesn't change it after your turn is over, so you gain no extra actions unless WRT was used outside of your own turn.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, for action economy, you want Psionics: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9867738&postcount=1
Grab an option for NI power points, and take a look at the “Mad Minute”

It's not like magic has problems on that front: simple Greater Arcane Fusion can output two Celerities so as long as you can recover those spell slots (e.g. Lucubration loops with Sanctum Spell), you can do infinite spells and infinite actions relatively easily as a caster as well (either Wizard or Sorc using e.g. Wyrm Wizard or whatever to get the off-class spells).