Relationships Woes & Advice III (Read First Post)

[Syka]

Well...After the confession thread, I saw way too many "what do I do in this situation" threads popping up, so here is one nice compendium. Come here to post questions about how to approach the opposite sex, the dread first date and, should you be in a relationship already and fairly certain they don't read Giant, a place to complain/seek advice about a current flame.

If you'd rather not make it public, I will compile a list in this thread of people who will accept PM's to give advice.

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.

Rules Of Relationships:
#1- Communicate. If you can't talk with your partner, it's probably not going to work.

#2- Be yourself. Admittedly, if you have some really bad habits you should probably try to change them, but be honest about who you are. No one wants to find out they were loving a lie, and no one likes to live a lie (...well, normally).

#3- Accept your partner. In mine, and other people's, experience you have to be able to accept your partner as they are, because they probably won't be able to change. Also, don't change drastically for someone. I've tried it, my friends have tried it, it doesn't work and it doesn't end pretty.


Private Advice Givers:
Eh, I'm pretty sure any regular has an open PM box for you.


RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

Cheers,
Syka

[Dragonrider]

Looks like folks haven't quite gotten the new-thread message yet. :)

Hi everyone! Ooh! Shiny!

(I don't have any woes. Life is good right now. Believe it or not... :smalltongue:)

[FdL]

Hi DragonRider!

*sniff* It has that new thread smell ^^

I don't have any relationships right now...A crush doesn't count. Meh.

*back to lurking*

[Brickwall]

I should warn you all: I am a regular, but PMing me for advice will get you the following results:

1. I will tell you to do something that you don't want to do.
2. I will justify the reason you should do it by using some inadequacy I assume you have.
3. If you are currently working on a solution, I will tell you why that's a stupid solution.

It's a near-guarantee. If you want me to do those, please, PM me. My inbox is fairly clean. :smallbiggrin:

[Logic]

I will accept any PMs and give any advice I can. I cannot guarantee how sound my advice is, and sometimes, you may not want to hear what I have to say. I will try to be more polite than Brickwall.

[Dragonrider]

I will try to be more polite than Brickwall

Logic, that should be mandatory. :smallbiggrin:

Aww, just kidding, Brick. Sorta.


@FdL: Hi yourself! :smalltongue:


(And I'm open to PM or whatever too, answering as my schedule permits. I'm not terribly knowledgable but I'm always open if you need an ear. :smallsmile:)

[Volug]

I can handle *some*.

what i mean by *some* is that i will NOT answer anything regarding about/involves/has in

1.sex
2.Too deep in love life (just normal break-ups or something is okay)
3.porn
4.bad images
5.anything that might offend Mormons (yes I'm a Mormon that plays DnD sue me)

----
now that aside, im quite skilled at the following.

1.Family life
2.Friend problems
3. self-doubt
4.Anything Religeous (sometimes..)
5. anything else.
6.if your Emo:smalltongue:
------------
you can PM me as i will not be keeping track of this thread. My advice can be very helpfull, or just a little.
and im sorry if i refer to my "Book" i wont try to drag anything religeous into the matter. But sometimes i cant help it.

[Syka]

Mmmm yay, new thread. It's good to see everyone offering up help. :smallsmile:

And yah, if you PM me...I won't tell you what you want to hear, I'll tell you as it is. I figure I'd do more harm then good.

But, like Logic, I'll probably do it more politely than Brickie over there. :smallwink:

As has been the case, everything is good on my end. Still. :smallsmile: I'm hoping it remains that way so I don't have to bug you all again. ;)

Cheers,
Syka

[Crow]

I can handle *some*.

what i mean by *some* is that i will NOT answer anything regarding about/involves/has in

1.sex
2.Too deep in love life (just normal break-ups or something is okay)
3.porn
4.bad images
5.anything that might offend Mormons (yes I'm a Mormon that plays DnD sue me)

Don't worry because I will be happy to answer questions pertaining to those ones.

But you won't want to hear what I have to say, and I won't wear kid gloves when I say it.

[Brickwall]

Aww, just kidding, Brick.

This confuses and offends me. I've worked long and hard to become the most impolite-and-yet-not-breaking-board-rules person on the boards. To be as impolite as me is an insult to my stature. And probably risky.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I really suck at studying and procrastinate a lot reading random stuff on the internet, so I decided I might as well make myself useful and give some advice, since I end up being everyone's therapist in real life anyway.

I'm the wrong person to ask about serious long-term relationships, but I have lots of experience and insight into pretty much everything else.

[ForzaFiori]

I guess i'll hop on the bandwagon with the others and open up my inbox to any ppl that need advice. I give it out to my rl friends, so why not go global?

[zeratul]

Ah the new RW&A thread, smells like cheap booze (:smalltongue: ).

I'll try to help any of you with anything, my PM box is open friends.

[Serpentine]

I'm another for PMing. I don't exactly have wide-ranging experience... but I'm empathetic and have a reasonable amount of common sense? You might like to ask about my family history-related biases, though. Back to the topic from the other thread...


No offense taken, Serpentine. I understand what you mean, but there are things unspoken in my post that might change your mind a little bit. One thing about her last ex-boyfriend is that he used her and twisted her mind to get her to bed. That alone is reason enough to not want her to meet him anymore. Her other ex boyfriend had sex with her without her consent. Yes, rape. And that doesn't help me at all when it comes to trusting other guys' intentions with her.

I might be perveived as paranoid, and I slightly agree actually. I realize I might be a little over the edge. But I've been cheated on before, and I gave her all the freedom you can imagine. I never as much as gave her a hint about what I thought regarding her meeting this and that person, she could do whatever she wanted without me saying a word. And that's how it ended up. It doesn't justify how I am, but it gives an explanation. Believe me, I'm far from as bad as you might think. :P I actually encouraged her to go out partying last night, though I know there are almost only guys working at her extra job. It completely tore me apart, but as I said, I want her to be happy. I AM willing to change, but it's impossible for me to turn around 180 and just stand by smiling like a fool without saying what I feel... She needs to meet me somewhere on the way. I'd appreciate it if you PM'ed me with any advice you might have, Serpentine, to indicate how she might think and what I can do to try to change. Maybe also what to say to convince her I want to try to make this work.

And to those who believe she might cheat: She won't. I trust her, but I REALLY don't trust any of the guys around her.
You're in the realms of relationships that I have absolutely no experience in, so I don't think there's much I could PM you with. The deal with the exes makes your forbidding more understandable, but still not right. All you can do is ask that she stay away from them, for her own good, and that she at least have someone with her when she sees them. Telling her to do something is placing yourself in a position of authority over her. This is a very bad thing - a relationship is supposed to be an equal partnership. Any tilt in this balance will completely throw it out. Regarding the banning of male friends, tell me, does this apply to your female ones, or would it if you had some? Hardly fair if not, and if so you're both being screwed in the friend department. For that matter, what happens if she turns out to like girls as well? Are you gonna ban her from having any friends at all? Limit her to hermaphrodites and eunuchs? You have absolutely no right to dictate who she hangs around with, and she no right to do so to you. On the other hand, what I forgot to say last night (it was 3am, gimme a break) was that it was very admirable of you to acknowledge your issues and to explain and talk them over with your girlfriend, and it wasn't fair of her to agree to it and then casually dismiss it later. Once she realised it wasn't going to work for her, she should have sat you down and talked about it again, to negotiate some compromise.
Now, The Recommendation: I think you should organise a weekend or so just to be spent with the two of you. If you can manage it, go somewhere else, away from everyone either of you know. Whether you can or not, have an intimate dinner in or out, and do lots of things that involve devoting your attention to each other. After you get back, have a dinner party. Invite all these friends of hers over (or at least the most "important"), and get to know them. If you have concerns about any of them after the meeting (as little coloured as possible by the fact they're, shock-horror, male and friends with your girlfriend), talk to her about them, but do not ban her from seeing them. Just express your concerns and let her know it'd make you feel better if she wasn't alone with them. And you never know, you may actually like some of them.

(Regarding cheating, my opinion may change if I'm ever directly affected by it, but at this stage I can't think that someone's a completely horrible person just for having a moment of weakness. I haven't properly formed my opinions of the matter, but one thought is that if someone feels so compelled to go to someone else (especially repeatedly), then it means there's something very wrong in the relationship they already have, and they should look at that, and try to fix it, before beginning what is obviously going to be already a very messy one. But I don't think they should be condemned to an eternity of sluttiness. Hell, all signs point to my mother having had an affair, and she's now married to the guy (though she has lost much of her moral authority over me). Frankly, as far as I'm concerned right now, sex can just be sex. If it's lied about, then it becomes deception, which I think is far worse than the deed itself. Further, unusual circumstances aside, if someone finds themselves forming a proper relationship with another person, they should - nay, must, for the sake of the budding one - end it with the first one well before it gets to the physical point.)

[Skippy]

Hi everyone... Congrats on the new thread!! Good we could keep the old one without any scrubbing...

I have had my own set of troubles and now my life is good, too, so every now and then I'm also open for speaking, whenever I can give my two cents to the discussion.

And now to begin... Not having troubles, but I need a bit of advice now...

Some time ago, I met a girl and the story of our relationship was somewhere in this forum... Anyway, the thing ended so bad I ran away to another city back to my mum's house, and with the time I've finally stopped thinking about her. The thing is this: I was out of this city for two years, and in that time all my friends have moved to other places, so I've got no one here I can hang around with. My question is perhaps a bit silly, but I've really got no experience in this... How can I approach someone new, get to know new people? I'm a really insecure person, and have never in my life approached anyone to start a friendship... It has always been someone else who comes to me and we start speaking, but I don't know how to meet people. Any advice?

[Don Julio Anejo]

I'm thinking you could do something along the lines of getting a job in a coffee shop, restaurant, etc - younger people who work service jobs that aren't McDonalds are usually very friendly and open to meeting new people (which is pretty much why they're working with people in the first place, instead of often higher paying warehouse/bookkeeping/etc entry-level jobs).

You could also join an interest club, for example a for-fun theater company or a photography club or something like that. This way you would already have a thing in common. Unlike what a lot of people say though, bars and clubs probably aren't the best of places to meet people, at least not until your older and you hang out in the same bar just for the hell of it.

[Ranis]

Some quick news about my little "situation" that some might find entertaining. Remember that guy that I warned about that crazy chick that was "attached" to me? Yeah, he looked very, very upset that day, but guess who's still with her. What an idiot.

"Dude, please tell me you made the right decision."
"....what is the right decision?"
":smalleek:"

Oh well. This is America. He has the right to remain stupid. My conscience is clean.

[Glaivemaster]

I'll just chime in here to say that I'm also open for PM'ing, and I'll be happy to help with any problem - if you don't mind a rather self-serving approach.

Skippy: I agree with Don; join a group which shares the same hobbies as you. That way you have an excuse to talk to them without seeming odd, and they're likely to already be into the same stuff as you

[Vampiric]

I are also a PAG. (read the first post, that'll tell you what it means:smalltongue:)


Ah the new RW&A thread, smells like cheap booze (:smalltongue:).

Really? I always thought it was more like new video game... (http://www.cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20060405):smallbiggrin:

[Crow]

And to those who believe she might cheat: She won't. I trust her, but I REALLY don't trust any of the guys around her.

Ok buddy, good luck with that. Aside from your statement there making little sense at all...well, nevermind.

[mdsoze]

I'm not a regular advice giver, but I will provide advice from time to time, and I'd answer a PM if it were sent. I've been in a few different relationships, and I usually have good insight into why things are or aren't working.



No offense taken, Serpentine. I understand what you mean, but there are things unspoken in my post that might change your mind a little bit. One thing about her last ex-boyfriend is that he used her and twisted her mind to get her to bed. That alone is reason enough to not want her to meet him anymore. Her other ex boyfriend had sex with her without her consent. Yes, rape. And that doesn't help me at all when it comes to trusting other guys' intentions with her.

I might be perveived as paranoid, and I slightly agree actually. I realize I might be a little over the edge. But I've been cheated on before, and I gave her all the freedom you can imagine. I never as much as gave her a hint about what I thought regarding her meeting this and that person, she could do whatever she wanted without me saying a word. And that's how it ended up. It doesn't justify how I am, but it gives an explanation. Believe me, I'm far from as bad as you might think. :P I actually encouraged her to go out partying last night, though I know there are almost only guys working at her extra job. It completely tore me apart, but as I said, I want her to be happy. I AM willing to change, but it's impossible for me to turn around 180 and just stand by smiling like a fool without saying what I feel... She needs to meet me somewhere on the way. I'd appreciate it if you PM'ed me with any advice you might have, Serpentine, to indicate how she might think and what I can do to try to change. Maybe also what to say to convince her I want to try to make this work.

And to those who believe she might cheat: She won't. I trust her, but I REALLY don't trust any of the guys around her.

You have to be careful. Being protective in a relationship is like holding a bird. Too loose, and you risk the bird flying away, too tight, and you'll kill the bird.

On the other hand, while I don't blame your gf for what's happened to her, she seems to have put herself into some less than ideal situations in the past.

All I can say is that maybe if when you're overreacting or trying to protect her, you tell your gf that you know you're being irrational, and you don't want to prevent her from having a social life, but you're concerned and worried about her and you just don't want to see her hurt again. Admitting that you know you're being irrational and overly concerned transitions it from being restrictive/abusive to being more acceptable. And you have to work on it too. I disagree that there is somewhere in the middle to meet. She should be able to associate with whom she chooses, and you should be accepting of her social choices. Now, if you can help her see why some of her choices are counter-productive, that's fine, but I think you have more to work on before you get to that stage.

[Rykaj]

Ooo lookie! A new thread and it's all shiny and new. I don't post here all that often but if you feel inclined to PM me I'll be sure to answer.


We move on:


You have to be careful. Being protective in a relationship is like holding a bird. Too loose, and you risk the bird flying away, too tight, and you'll kill the bird.

I like this saying, it's just alright. But I think that you can just loose your grip if you know the bird won't fly away anyway. I really don't like seeing people being all possessive in a relationship, even having been cheated on myself (coincidentilly I myself cheated too in that relationship, and no, that obviously wasn't a very stable or mature relationship). I've seen too many great matches wither and die slowly and painfully because one side was being possessive. It just never works. Love only works with trust, and if you can't even muster the trust to let your significant other visit their FRIENDS, you should ask yourself why and if you're even in a loving relationship with this person (person, not object).

Short summary: Don't smother! :smallannoyed:

[Pyrian]

As a general rule, if you're very possessive and you're partner accepts that, it's probably because they cheat. Non-cheaters usually won't tolerate that sort of behavior, while cheaters often feel that they deserve it.

There are exceptions, of course: they may be just as possessive as you are and not want to be hypocritical (this is usually very obvious), they may simply be submissive in general, and so on, and on the other hand a given cheater may simply not have a meaningful conscience and seek out mates that don't give them difficulty (this is also usually pretty obvious - I really don't recommend dating sociopaths).

This is one of the ways in which fearing something can draw it into your life...

[Logic]

Ok, I've finally got a woe worth posting about.

About 2 years ago, my girlfriend at the time decided to break up with me, citing "being immature" as her biggest concern. This was a blow to my ego, especially since I considered her biggest flaw was her immaturity.

Now, attempting to not even aknowledge her existance, I find out she is dating one of my best friends.

When she and I broke up in the first place, it put a strain on the friendship I had with both of her brothers, whom are still very good friends.

I now await the inevitable question from my friend about all the reasons she and I broke up, and whether or not he has my blessing or whatever. I don't expect him to ask, but that is exactly what I would do in his position.

If it ever comes up, I don't want to sound bitter, but I am afraid that my perceptions of the situation are still colored by hurt so I am unable to give an adequate assessment.

The problem I am having, is should I say anything to my friend? A person can change a lot in 2 years, and for the sake of my friend, I hope she has changed for the better.

Arg. I wish my mother would stop gossiping about my ex. Especially to me. Just thinking about my ex makes me bummed. And I was really excited before I my mother told me this, since I am going home early.

[Brickwall]

1. Tell your mother to stop talking to you about your ex next time she tries it.

2. You have two options:
2a. Be a spiteful git and lie to your friend, even though he won't believe you and will then just think you're a spiteful git. People will like you less.
2b. Be impartial, which can be helped by being concise. Less talk, less opinion.

[mdsoze]

Logic,

My advice is to shut your mouth if your friend asks about her. Change the subject. And if he brings it up again, express that you don't want to bias him and you aren't comfortable talking about it. If he wants to know how you feel about it, be relatively honest. Express your opinion once, and then say you won't discuss it again.

I really, truly think that no good can come of you discussing your time with her. As you said, people change, and as you said, you aren't completely comfortable with her now.

If it bothers you, ask your mother why she told you. Maybe she wanted you to know so that it wasn't as much of a shock later, or you weren't suddenly confronted with it later. Generally parents THINK they are doing what's best for you, even if/when they aren't.

[Cyrano]

Develop a case of conditional laryngitis.

[Serpentine]

Logic, I'd say don't say anything unless he brings it up, and then be honest with the disclaimer that you're still a little bitter. As for your mother, just change the subject or tell her that it's a sore spot you'd rather not hear about.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Lets just say there's a very valid reason my mother never met any of my girlfriends (well she met a few but she didn't know we were dating and I didn't tell her).

[FdL]

As a general rule, if you're very possessive and you're partner accepts that, it's probably because they cheat. Non-cheaters usually won't tolerate that sort of behavior, while cheaters often feel that they deserve it.


I can agree with this, it makes sense (within the twisted logic of guilt and awful relationships, obviously). Then again it's true that there's bound to be as many exceptions as cheaters out there.

[mdsoze]

I like this saying, it's just alright. But I think that you can just loose your grip if you know the bird won't fly away anyway. I really don't like seeing people being all possessive in a relationship, even having been cheated on myself (coincidentilly I myself cheated too in that relationship, and no, that obviously wasn't a very stable or mature relationship). I've seen too many great matches wither and die slowly and painfully because one side was being possessive. It just never works. Love only works with trust, and if you can't even muster the trust to let your significant other visit their FRIENDS, you should ask yourself why and if you're even in a loving relationship with this person (person, not object).

Short summary: Don't smother! :smallannoyed:

Yes, but you'll note the word I used was protective, not possessive. If you're afraid your SO (or any close friend, for that matter) is about to do something dangerous/risky/stupid, like say, hang out with someone who is known for taking advantage of people, you have some obligation to say, "You know.... you might not be making the best choice here, and since I value you, I'm going to tell you that I don't think you should be doing that." That's protective. That's good.

And that seemed like what was being discussed.

Possessive, I must have all your time/you can't have other friends, and using emotional blackmail to achieve those goals, is bad.

I think we agree on point, it's just a difference of vocabulary.

[sktarq]

@Logic. For your friend-if he asks say it flat out wasn't a plesant breakup but this "blonk-de-blonk" is why it happened. If you find fault with her be sure to use the past tense. Admit you don't know if she has changed since then. Then try and avoid the subject from then on. As for your mother, try making some ofhand coment and then ask about someone else at home. If I remember correctly you're deployed right now- so you may even want to say that former girlfriends are the last thing you need to think about right now.

[Thes Hunter]

My inbox is open to anyone who wishes to hear my opinion on their issues at hand.

My answers might not be right, but they will be the best I can manage.

[JBakaka]

@ radikalskippy: I agree with Don Julio Anejo. Joining clubs / societies and the like definitely help. Do you play any sport? In which case joining a local team is by far the easiest way to make friends. I dunno if this would work too well but I guess you could ask your other friends in other cities if they knew anyone where you are.

Ok I guess its time to rub some of the newness of this thread. Here we go.

Bg (if you really want): I'm a first year uni student in Australia. not very exciting.

At the start of this year, this guy moved into town for uni, and we became friends, now good friends. The problem comes in, as usual, with a girl. My friend met her at uni, and they are now good friends. She's just an acquaintance of mine but seems like a nice enough person. The problem is that she is engaged (and going to be married soon) and my friend has developed feelings for her. I'm pretty sure he does like her but he also likes her partly because he's new in town and he doesnt know many people and shes helped him and stuff, well I've helped him too but thats beside the point.

Nowadays, he keeps bringing her into conversation more and more, he keeps telling me that he thinks of her often, and that he is a (morally) bad person for thinking of her in this way considering she is in a relationship already etc.
So far, I've told him to try and see her as he sees me, talk to her as he talks to me, ie. just as mates, nothing more nothing less.

Also, we just finished a one week break from uni, and he has been complaining to me that she didnt call him / didnt return his call, and that she doesnt care about him, and that when he sees her again, hes completely going to ignore her (but that last thing i have already convinced him out of, so hes going to talk to her again).

I've told him to try and keep his distance, be careful (which he is already), and maybe meet new people so that he can take his mind off her and back onto his studies / work etc. I'm really at my wits end with him..what should I tell him? Don't talk to her again? Tell her his feelings and try to sort it out that way??

Sorry for ranting so much, I really thought that the story would be much shorter than that. If you need more details, just post or PM. Advice would be much appreciated, thank you in advance.

[Skippy]

@ radikalskippy: I agree with Don Julio Anejo. Joining clubs / societies and the like definitely help. Do you play any sport? In which case joining a local team is by far the easiest way to make friends. I dunno if this would work too well but I guess you could ask your other friends in other cities if they knew anyone where you are.

No sports here. I stated somewhere in RB that my religion (Skippyism) forbids any sports, so no can do.
As for the clubs, it is pretty hard in this little town to find something interesting or people who actually do something together without betraying my geek nature, but I'll try. Hopefully I'll get a job soon and that way I'll meet someone. As for my friends' recomendations, I only could meet a girl. Nice girl, but due to her tight schedule, we haven't met in some time. Maybe I'll just go out to the street tomorrow and try to speak with random people. That way I'll either know someone, or be stabbed/abducted. Any way, it won't be boring.

[Serpentine]

Why shouldn't you betray your geek nature? I would've thought that'd be the quickest and easiest way to find potential friends... I can only suggest that you find somewhere to hang out (cafe, bookshop, hobbyshop, park, library etc.) and hope there's someone else that hangs out there a lot who you can strike up a conversation with after a few encounters.

[Brickwall]

Avoid hiding geeky nature. It makes as many friends as it alienates. If you're a nice person.

[Skippy]

Why shouldn't you betray your geek nature? I would've thought that'd be the quickest and easiest way to find potential friends... I can only suggest that you find somewhere to hang out (cafe, bookshop, hobbyshop, park, library etc.) and hope there's someone else that hangs out there a lot who you can strike up a conversation with after a few encounters.

Yeah, that's what I'll do. What I meant before is that the usual places where people about my age hang around are too... normal. I wouldn't fit in, so I guess I'll find somewhere peaceful where people aren't frightened by my usual gamer shirts and stuff like that, and perhaps I'll meet someone soon.

[Don Julio Anejo]

No sports here. I stated somewhere in RB that my religion (Skippyism) forbids any sports, so no can do.
As for the clubs, it is pretty hard in this little town to find something interesting or people who actually do something together without betraying my geek nature, but I'll try. Hopefully I'll get a job soon and that way I'll meet someone. As for my friends' recomendations, I only could meet a girl. Nice girl, but due to her tight schedule, we haven't met in some time. Maybe I'll just go out to the street tomorrow and try to speak with random people. That way I'll either know someone, or be stabbed/abducted. Any way, it won't be boring.

Surprisingly, I would actually advice against speaking to random people on the street. You can have a nice conversation, but it's kinda freaky if you ask them to hang out with you sometime (picking up girls works differently from making friends). Coffee shops, bookshops, etc are awesome. Bring a laptop and start writing a book or something in a coffee shop, and talk to random people. Or just go to your local chapters and read stuff. There's always interesting people there looking at/reading books. Or even library.

As for betraying your geek nature - seriously, drop the gamer shirts. While we all want it to not be true, unfortunately we still judge each other based on looks. If you look "geeky" people are less likely to want to talk to you (because, unfortunately, a lot of people don't want to be seen hanging around a geek). Get a couple of polos, nice jeans, a haircut that makes you look good and you can already fit in pretty much anywhere looks wise. This doesn't make you any less of a geek, but it does improve your chances of meeting people

[Don Julio Anejo]

At the start of this year, this guy moved into town for uni, and we became friends, now good friends. The problem comes in, as usual, with a girl. My friend met her at uni, and they are now good friends. She's just an acquaintance of mine but seems like a nice enough person. The problem is that she is engaged (and going to be married soon) and my friend has developed feelings for her. I'm pretty sure he does like her but he also likes her partly because he's new in town and he doesnt know many people and shes helped him and stuff, well I've helped him too but thats beside the point.

Nowadays, he keeps bringing her into conversation more and more, he keeps telling me that he thinks of her often, and that he is a (morally) bad person for thinking of her in this way considering she is in a relationship already etc.
So far, I've told him to try and see her as he sees me, talk to her as he talks to me, ie. just as mates, nothing more nothing less.

Also, we just finished a one week break from uni, and he has been complaining to me that she didnt call him / didnt return his call, and that she doesnt care about him, and that when he sees her again, hes completely going to ignore her (but that last thing i have already convinced him out of, so hes going to talk to her again).

I've told him to try and keep his distance, be careful (which he is already), and maybe meet new people so that he can take his mind off her and back onto his studies / work etc. I'm really at my wits end with him..what should I tell him? Don't talk to her again? Tell her his feelings and try to sort it out that way??

Under no circumstances admit you have feeling for someone unless you're already in a relationship with said person. It drives people away. So don't give that advice to your friend.

I don't know about you, but if I was in your shoes I wouldn't want the girl to break off her engagement. I would set up your friend with a girl (probably not on a date, but I'd instead go around with him hitting on random girls and then leave him tet-a-tet with one, hoping something happens). If that doesn't work because he does something stupid along the lines of admitting that his heart belongs to another, I would try something less subtle. Basically I would try to get him another girl, one he can have a relationship with and switch his affection (at this stage it's not love, it's an infatuation). I would also try to limit his contact with the engaged girl so his feelings don't come back.

[Zeb The Troll]

There are a lot of new people participating in this thread so I'll reiterate that my PM box is always open and my MSN info is listed in my profile.


And now to begin... Not having troubles, but I need a bit of advice now...

My question is perhaps a bit silly, but ... I don't know how to meet people. Any advice?This has already been touched on by people mentioning to get involved in groups with similar interests. I'd say also that if you aren't aware of any such groups, check your local newspaper and use your internet to find some. You might be surprised what's around.


Ok, I've finally got a woe worth posting about.

The problem I am having, is should I say anything to my friend? A person can change a lot in 2 years, and for the sake of my friend, I hope she has changed for the better.Serpentine summed up my thoughts on this. Don't offer anything. If you're asked, attempt to decline to answer. If you must answer, qualify your answer citing time and emotion as reasons why your feelings on the topic may not be accurate.

[Brickwall]

Under no circumstances admit you have feeling for someone unless you're already in a relationship with said person. It drives people away. So don't give that advice to your friend.

Were the world to follow your advice, people wouldn't have relationships. :smallconfused:

[Amotis]

People date without letting feelings known (or having them at all) all the time. I personally never have, but it happens a lot.

[Brickwall]

Yes, but I somehow doubt they would escalate to the procreation level efficiently enough for the survival of the human race.

[Amotis]

Is that a challenge? :smallamused:

[Serpentine]

Yes, but I somehow doubt they would escalate to the procreation level efficiently enough for the survival of the human race.
...
Nah, I'll let it go.

[Brickwall]

Is that a challenge? :smallamused:

Yes. I challenge you to make people who haven't acknowledged their feelings for each other still procreate with each other at a 2 surviving children/couple rate. And for all those couples, not just a few of them.

Good luck.

[Zeb The Troll]

I think the point was that people frequently start relationships without admitting feelings. Not that they never express them once they're in them.

[Replacement]

Halp!


Lets say you go with and without your friends a diner constantly. This is like the place for your group to go. Awhile back a new waitress started working there, attractive, humorus, and witty. She chats it up with you when its slow and is just nice to have as your server. I only know this waitress from her working How do you, if even, ask her out? I am honestly falling for this woman but can't bring myself to ask her. I think its rude mostly and unfair (because if she feels uncomfortable she can't leave) to ask her. I know she gets hit on constantly while working and that doesn't help the jitters. I just can't get it out of my head about asking servers/employees out while they are on shift. I suppose if I ran into her when she wasn't working. Halp!

[Serpentine]

If you're in there when it's quiet, and you're chatting, just before you go ask whether she'd like to meet outside of work. You don't have to ask her out exactly, and you'll be leaving so even if she is uncomfortable she won't be forced to hang around you and will have time to get over it by the time you come back again. If she says no, just smile and be polite and accept it, and don't act awkwardly next time you talk. If she says yes, I'd probably go with something fairly neutral, like a lunch or afternoon tea somewhere decentish (or takeaway in a park or somesuch), where you can get to know each other and see if it goes anywhere.

Also, if you're gonna use the word "halp", it must be accompanied by something like this:
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/128293527057141124halp.jpg
It tha rulz.

[Zeb The Troll]

Folks might disagree with this, but this is what I'd do. Next time you eat there, especially if it's not with a group of friends so there's no confusion, along with her tip, leave a message (on a napkin or business card or whatever is handy) telling her you'd like to have a cup of coffee or something sometime when she's not working and if she's interested she can call/email/let you know next time you're there. Alternatively, you can just say something as you're about to leave. The idea here is to get your interest known to her without putting her in that "trapped" position you mentioned.

If she politely declines or just doesn't call, or whatever (which is possible considering her profession and the high likelihood that she does get this sort of attention a lot), make sure you don't let it affect your opinion of her and don't make it be an awkward situation the next time you see her there.

Now that I think on it, another approach might be to ask her to coffee or whatever when she first comes by. Then if she declines, you can just say "Ah, well, that's too bad. I'll have the [whatever you've decided to have]." That way you can show right away that she doesn't have to feel weird about your patronage after the fact.

[Serpentine]

Leaving a note seems a touch sleazyish to me, but it could be fine if she's too busy to stop and chat.

[Zeb The Troll]

Really? Sleazy? I could've understood cliche, trite, or even impersonal. But sleazy?

[Serpentine]

I don't know, kind of along the lines of what she already cops a lot of. I can't really explain why. And it's only a touch.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Waitresses are hard. Exactly because they're being hit on every bloody minute. They develop an immunity towards it. So it's doubtful you can pull off a date. Ask her to hang out but make it obvious (when asking) that you just want to hang out because she seems like an interesting person. THEN, when you're actually out with her, flirt. A lot. NO NOTES. Chances are she gets them every day, including from other regulars she talks to.

@Brickwall: I'm sorry, I've never seen a relationship begin when a random person comes up to another random person with the words "I love you" unless the other person shared the same feelings. In fact if you do it to someone, unless they're desperate, chances are they'll use it to their advantage.

[Brickwall]

Funny, because I wouldn't call it "love", thus, it would be lying, not confessing. "Am interested in" sounds more accurate to me. And it sounds like it'd work if you played it cool.

Where's that CAD strip...?

[Don Julio Anejo]

Funny, because I wouldn't call it "love", thus, it would be lying, not confessing. "Am interested in" sounds more accurate to me. And it sounds like it'd work if you played it cool.

Where's that CAD strip...?

Well there's nothing wrong with the phrase "Hey, you're kinda cute. Wanna go out for a cup of coffee sometime?" But when a lot of people develop a serious crush, they tend to say "I love you" when probably they shouldn't say it. Tone of voice matters too... the more playful it is, the better.

[Brickwall]

Well there's nothing wrong with the phrase "Hey, you're kinda cute. Wanna go out for a cup of coffee sometime?" But when a lot of people develop a serious crush, they tend to say "I love you" when probably they shouldn't say it. Tone of voice matters too... the more playful it is, the better.

Yes, but we were specifically talking about feelings, not horrible, horrible lies that we tell ourselves so that we can sleep at night.

[Krugg]

I just need a few honest opinions. PM me if you have one.

Now, I'm no n00b to relationships, but to long distance, I've no idea.

I've got this friend, and I've had a thing for her on and off (generally in between other girlfriends I've had lol) for a long time. Aaand she says she likes me too.

PROBLEM! She lives a good 4 hour drive away, and most of that is across open land. So she's a fairly large distance away from me.

QUESTION! Should I ask her out? If I really wanted to I could catch a bus to Moss Vale and from there catch a train to where she is. I could probably do this every weekend or two. But yes, should I do it or not?
PM me if you have an answer, please :)

Cheers
KRugG

[Last_resort_33]

@krugg:

worth a try I suppose... worked for me.

[Sir_Norbert]

PROBLEM! She lives a good 4 hour drive away, and most of that is across open land. So she's a fairly large distance away from me.

QUESTION! Should I ask her out? If I really wanted to I could catch a bus to Moss Vale and from there catch a train to where she is. I could probably do this every weekend or two. But yes, should I do it or not?
PM me if you have an answer, please :)
Considering that I live eleven hours by plane from my girlfriend and it's a real struggle to see each other twice a year and that didn't stop us getting together, I'd of course say go for it :elan:

One important thing I don't know: how old are you / how old is she? If it becomes serious, are you approaching the age when you might be able to move in together (when the time is right), or are you about to head off for college and become even further apart? Do you (or does she) have the money to see each other as regularly as you'd like, or will that be a likely source of tension?

[Krugg]

Considering that I live eleven hours by plane from my girlfriend and it's a real struggle to see each other twice a year and that didn't stop us getting together, I'd of course say go for it :elan:

One important thing I don't know: how old are you / how old is she? If it becomes serious, are you approaching the age when you might be able to move in together (when the time is right), or are you about to head off for college and become even further apart? Do you (or does she) have the money to see each other as regularly as you'd like, or will that be a likely source of tension?

Well I'm 15, she's 14. And when I move out I plan to move to the city she lives on the outskirts of. So at that point we'll only be like a half hour apart, maybe a little bit more. And currently I can earn enough to catch a train there every second weekend.

[B-Man]

Hiyo relationship advice givers! I'm having a mite of confusion at the moment.

I met this girl a couple of years ago and I've been really close friends with her throughout high school. We 'went out' for awhile in Grade 11, but she called it off without giving a reason. I asked her best friend the following semester (which would be in Grade 12) why she broke it off. She said that the girl in question wasn't ready for a relationship. So I've decided to wait until she is.

The problem is, she's sending me a lot of mixed signals since I've moved away from our hometown. She's told me that she doesn't want to be with me, yet she says that I cannot date anyone whilst I'm away from her. To quote her, "If you get a girlfriend, she cannot be smarter or dumber than me." We're constantly in communication with each other on MSN and on the phone and I visit her on weekends when I can get back to my hometown.

Yes, I do have lots of feelings for her, but I'm not sure what I should do.

[Death, your friend the Reaper]

"If you get a girlfriend, she cannot be smarter or dumber than me."

Give the girl in question an IQ test, and then test potential candidates for role of B-Girl until you reach one with the same IQ.

Seems fairly straight forward to me, I don't know why I didn't start giving advice here more often! Well, besides I may be shooed out by Syka *shifty eyes*

[Charity]

Jealosy makes the heart grow fonder B-man.
Treat her as a friend a good friend but just that, she has written herself out as a romantic interest in your story, so go with that. She may be kidding about the whole dating while you're away thing, or she may not, either way she has not say in the matter.
If she wants you to herself she's gonna have to admit that to herself.
I would go about your every day business, date if you want to, and make no bones about it, she should accept the fact that as a free agent you will act like one.
Most likely if she does have more than a friend feelings for you, you dating other girls will make her realise this better than anything you could say.

Edit^ Out, out, damn spot!


Edit (the second) V Together we are one glorious whole!

[Thes Hunter]

B-Man, do you know anything about her family? It is likely that she is being told by her parents that she is too young to date. So she is trying to hold you at a distance because she doesn't wish to displease her parents, but the positive signals are coming from that she does have feelings for you.



And yeah listen to me mate Charity. He gave the other half of this whole situation. :smallwink:

[Vampiric]

This (http://www.cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20070307) one, Brick?

B-Man, it sounds to me like she's interested in you ("If you get a gf, she can't be smarter of dumber than me" - the gf will be her.). But it sounds like she isn't entirely sure of herself. Hence, the no relationship. OR (and it's a very big or) she is trying to get you to make the first move.

Damn, women are confusing.:smallfrown: :smallamused:

[Skippy]

Damn, women are confusing.:smallfrown: :smallamused:

Yes. I think mankind has that little thing figured out ever since Troy saw its doom because of a woman.

[Thes Hunter]

Hey now, we think the same. So right back at ya. :smallyuk:

:smallwink:

[Skippy]

Hey now, we think the same. So right back at ya. :smallyuk:

:smallwink:

Just kidding. Women are the best thing God could ever imagine creating. Even if they're sometimes more problematic that they should be...

[Don Julio Anejo]

Well I'm 15, she's 14. And when I move out I plan to move to the city she lives on the outskirts of. So at that point we'll only be like a half hour apart, maybe a little bit more. And currently I can earn enough to catch a train there every second weekend.

Well you guys ARE kinda young for a long distance relationship - there are going to be other girls in your life where you live, taking a train is a much bigger pain in the butt than driving (plus having to pack bags every second weekend), etc.

The point is, I doubt you're going to move there until at least 2 years from now, when you finish high school and right now it's a pain for you two to get together. But that's my take on stuff - just talking to a person isn't enough for me. It doesn't have to be sexual but we have to be able to do stuff together at least every two days for it to be a relationship.

If you're willing to only see her every 2 weeks for a few days, then go for it. Otherwise reconsider.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Hiyo relationship advice givers! I'm having a mite of confusion at the moment.

I met this girl a couple of years ago and I've been really close friends with her throughout high school. We 'went out' for awhile in Grade 11, but she called it off without giving a reason. I asked her best friend the following semester (which would be in Grade 12) why she broke it off. She said that the girl in question wasn't ready for a relationship. So I've decided to wait until she is.

The problem is, she's sending me a lot of mixed signals since I've moved away from our hometown. She's told me that she doesn't want to be with me, yet she says that I cannot date anyone whilst I'm away from her. To quote her, "If you get a girlfriend, she cannot be smarter or dumber than me." We're constantly in communication with each other on MSN and on the phone and I visit her on weekends when I can get back to my hometown.

Yes, I do have lots of feelings for her, but I'm not sure what I should do.

I agree with what everyone else wrote - she likes you but she's not sure about a relationship. Play on that. Say stuff like "Are you really, really sure about not having a relationship? I just want to know for sure that you're not interested in one Because there's this girl at my school...." $(describe a girl in a cutesy way... doesn't even have to be real).

Next time you see her, go on the internet and give her an IQ test... When she sais "wtf," tell her "Well, you told me to make sure whomever I'm dating isn't smarter or stupider than you."

Basically play on her jealousy and tease her about being unsure whether she wants a relationship. If she really does, chances are she'll tell her parents to stuff it (I had to hide under the bed from an overprotective dad once).

[zeratul]

Well I'm 15, she's 14. And when I move out I plan to move to the city she lives on the outskirts of. So at that point we'll only be like a half hour apart, maybe a little bit more. And currently I can earn enough to catch a train there every second weekend.

A half our ain't that far. See if you could get rides from people, it costs less, and would be less time consuming than a train.

[sktarq]

(I had to hide under the bed from an overprotective dad once).

Dude, the closet is ALOT more comfy-Even better hide in her hamper if it is big enough.

otherwise that isn't too bad advise.

[Crow]

I agree with what everyone else wrote - she likes you but she's not sure about a relationship. Play on that. Say stuff like "Are you really, really sure about not having a relationship? I just want to know for sure that you're not interested in one Because there's this girl at my school...." $(describe a girl in a cutesy way... doesn't even have to be real).

Next time you see her, go on the internet and give her an IQ test... When she sais "wtf," tell her "Well, you told me to make sure whomever I'm dating isn't smarter or stupider than you."

Basically play on her jealousy and tease her about being unsure whether she wants a relationship. If she really does, chances are she'll tell her parents to stuff it (I had to hide under the bed from an overprotective dad once).

Or she may become annoyed with you quite quickly.

YMMV.

[B-Man]

B-Man, do you know anything about her family? It is likely that she is being told by her parents that she is too young to date. Yes, I do know a bit of her family. In fact, I get along with them rather nicely. She is eighteen and her parents are actually trying to get her to socialise and get out of the house more often.


So she is trying to hold you at a distance because she doesn't wish to displease her parents, but the positive signals are coming from that she does have feelings for you.
B-Man, it sounds to me like she's interested in you ("If you get a gf, she can't be smarter of dumber than me" - the gf will be her.). But it sounds like she isn't entirely sure of herself. Hence, the no relationship. OR (and it's a very big or) she is trying to get you to make the first move. It's good to know that she may have some feelings for me.


I agree with what everyone else wrote - she likes you but she's not sure about a relationship. Play on that. Say stuff like "Are you really, really sure about not having a relationship? I just want to know for sure that you're not interested in one Because there's this girl at my school...." $(describe a girl in a cutesy way... doesn't even have to be real).

Next time you see her, go on the internet and give her an IQ test... When she sais "wtf," tell her "Well, you told me to make sure whomever I'm dating isn't smarter or stupider than you."

Basically play on her jealousy and tease her about being unsure whether she wants a relationship. If she really does, chances are she'll tell her parents to stuff it (I had to hide under the bed from an overprotective dad once). Only thing is I don't want to see anyone else, even if it was just an attempt to spark jealousy that may lead to a relationship.


Or she may become annoyed with you quite quickly.Yeah, she would just get rather annoyed and break all communication with me. That is something that I don't want to happen.


Damn, women are confusing.:smallfrown: :smallamused:
QFT!! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:
* hides from possible retribution * :smalleek:

And a bit of an update. She does want me to come down to her place this weekend, but she wants me to be at her place when I have a class and by the time I could get to her house, she would be starting her religious commitment. Should I just ask a friend to make me a copy of the notes on that day and go down, or should I wait for a later time? I am going down to my hometown this weekend, but it's to see some other friends whom I haven't seen in a good four months.

[Thes Hunter]

Tough call. Go if you think the notes and reading the relative chapters will be as good as going to class. That way if things don't turn out well, it's not like you are 'sacrificing' anything to be with her.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Only thing is I don't want to see anyone else, even if it was just an attempt to spark jealousy that may lead to a relationship.

Yeah, she would just get rather annoyed and break all communication with me. That is something that I don't want to happen.

And a bit of an update. She does want me to come down to her place this weekend, but she wants me to be at her place when I have a class and by the time I could get to her house, she would be starting her religious commitment. Should I just ask a friend to make me a copy of the notes on that day and go down, or should I wait for a later time? I am going down to my hometown this weekend, but it's to see some other friends whom I haven't seen in a good four months.

I never said "go see someone else." I never even meant lying to her about pursuing a relationship with someone else. I meant tease her about being jealous and possessive. Bring up funny fake hypothetical situations along the lines of "If Jessica Alba walked in right now and started making love to me, would you stop her?" BE FUNNY ABOUT IT. That's the point. It's called flirting. And no, she won't get annoyed unless you screw it up and actually insult her.

And in general, guys, don't try to use logic to analyze feelings. It just doesn't work - feelings are illogical and irrational and just happen. There's ways to play around with feelings and emotions but they're not logical ways.

[Vampiric]

YMMV.

Whuh?:smallconfused:

What does that stand for?

[Darken Rahl]

anything that might offend Mormons (yes I'm a Mormon that plays DnD sue me)

More like congratulate you on thinking for yourself while maintaining your faith. That's always a difficult proposition, and I think it shows strength of character.

[Darken Rahl]

Considering that I live eleven hours by plane from my girlfriend and it's a real struggle to see each other twice a year and that didn't stop us getting together, I'd of course say go for it :elan:

One important thing I don't know: how old are you / how old is she? If it becomes serious, are you approaching the age when you might be able to move in together (when the time is right), or are you about to head off for college and become even further apart? Do you (or does she) have the money to see each other as regularly as you'd like, or will that be a likely source of tension?

And I would give you the opposite advice for the same reasons. I've been dating a girl who's 12 hours away by plane (gotcha beat :smallwink:) and it's a nightmare, considering I want a future and she's reticent to move here. I can't speak her language, so there's other considerations, but IMO long distance is fine for awhile or for those with intense abilities and loyalties, but I would try to find a local girl if I were you.

[Syka]

Krugg: I'll reiterate what I've said before. It's really freaking hard. Really hard. You can't be with the person when they are celebrating or hurting or angry. You can't see them, feel them, be with them. You have to make time to keep in touch and you have to actually perfect the art of communication.

But I will never steer someone away from it. Why? It can be incredible. You get to know the person beyond superficialities, without the complication of it being "purely" physical. When you are with the person, you truly appreciate how much they mean to you. You savor every kiss, touch, and moment. And to keep a long distance relationship working you need to learn to communicate, which is incredibly vital to any healthy relationship, and yet so many people don't do it.

You will worry about them if they don't call (did they get in a wreck? etc). You will miss them, sometimes so badly it hurts. But in the end, I've yet to be disappointed.

Here's a blog I wrote recently, seeing as my current relationship is once again long distance (bah):

"Why do I have to fall for someone who is so far away? I'm remembering how much it hurts. How hard it is. How much you lose not being with them. The worries. The fears.

The feeling. That is what makes it worth it. The feeling. I haven't felt like this in...a long time. It makes up for every second apart. It's terrifying to go out on a limb. But life is short and how many regrets would I have if I let this moment pass me by?

It's worth it.

" Love hurts...
But sometimes it's a good hurt
And it feels like I'm alive." -Incubus


"..contrary to what the cynics say, distance is not for the fearful, it is for the bold. It's for those who are willing to spend a lot of time alone in exchange for a little time with the one they love. It's for those knowing a good thing when they see it, even if they don't see it nearly enough...""



You're young, the benefits might not outweigh the risks for you. But if they do- try it. My ex and I only saw each other every 6 months. When we got together I was 16 and he was 15, and 1000 miles away. We were together for over three years...and I regret none of it. He helped me grow, and the distance I think helped me figure out what is truly important in relationships in the long run. Oz only lives three hours away, and so far we're managing every 2-3 weeks visiting (working around school and work). As I said above- it's worth it. At least for me. We have no current prospects of living near each other beyond the times I come home (me with gradschool and/or other stuff, him with film school...and neither of us knows where we're going), but we're trying. That's the best anyone can say. :)


So just evaluate the pro's and con's and figure out if it's right FOR YOU. Distance won't work with everyone, and that's nothing to be ashamed about. But if you can...Just do it. :)






Death: Awww...You know I'd never shooe you out unless you started killing off my best advice givers. :smallwink:

Cheers,
Syka

[Sir_Norbert]

I can't speak her language, so there's other considerations, but IMO long distance is fine for awhile or for those with intense abilities and loyalties, but I would try to find a local girl if I were you.
...what makes you think I'm not one of "those with intense abilities and loyalties"? The way you word your post certainly makes it sound like you've made your mind up already.

I could never try to find anyone else now that I've got Valeran; firstly because that would be extremely selfish, considering how much it would hurt her (she waited two years while I was in another relationship without giving up hope of getting me); secondly because she's everything I could want in a partner (well, there are always a few trivial things that are not perfect, but that just makes life more interesting) and it would foolish, I feel, to give up on the possibility of having her for the rest of my life just because the next couple of years are going to be difficult to get through.

[Darken Rahl]

...what makes you think I'm not one of "those with intense abilities and loyalties"? The way you word your post certainly makes it sound like you've made your mind up already.

I could never try to find anyone else now that I've got Valeran; firstly because that would be extremely selfish, considering how much it would hurt her (she waited two years while I was in another relationship without giving up hope of getting me); secondly because she's everything I could want in a partner (well, there are always a few trivial things that are not perfect, but that just makes life more interesting) and it would foolish, I feel, to give up on the possibility of having her for the rest of my life just because the next couple of years are going to be difficult to get through.


Woah, woah. In no way was I speaking directly of you there, I was speaking generally. I would never presume to know you, I was merely saying what I felt was necessary to make it work. If you do, I'm very envious of you.

[Serpentine]

Yeah, I kinda got the impression that if anything you (Sir Norbert, that is) were being used as an example of someone who is "with intense abilities and loyalties".
>exits stage right<
>gets stuck in the curtain<
>exits stage left<

[Zeb The Troll]

Whuh?:smallconfused:

What does that stand for?YMMV stands for Your Mileage May Vary, since no one else has responded to it yet.

Long distance relationships. No one but you can tell you if it's worth it or not. I've been in good ones and bad ones and some longer than others. One bad one was with her in Korea while I was here in MD. That was before the popularity of IM and broadband. It sucked. But advancements like those and the multitude of long distance calling plans make that distance much smaller than it used to be.

[Da Beast]

I've got a bit of a problem in that I have absolutely no idea how to act around girls. I've somehow managed to make it to my sophomore year of college without ever going on a date (I'm practically a Jude Apitow movie in the making) and now I'm invited to another school's homecoming this weekend. Any one got some advice?

Edit: Should be girls there. Though if anyone has some good advice on how to act around grills I wouldn't be adverse to that either.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I've got a bit of a problem in that I have absolutely no idea how to act around girls. I've somehow managed to make it to my sophomore year of college without ever going on a date (I'm practically a Jude Apitow movie in the making) and now I'm invited to another school's homecoming this weekend. Any one got some advice?

Edit: Should be girls there. Though if anyone has some good advice on how to act around grills I wouldn't be adverse to that either.

Okay... that's going to take some explaining. A lot of explaining =((( Unfortunately I don't have the time right now (I'm supposedly studying my psych midterm for tomorrow morning right now), although I'll get into it later. Asking girls isn't a good idea though. On the surface they will all say that they want a gentlmanly prince charming on a white horse who's very sweet and caring, although I found that they almost never go for people like that. They either go for bad boys (aggressive, powerful, is in control) or for comedians (funny, interesting, cocky, fun to be around).

One piece of advice though - observe guys who are good with girls. See what exactly it is that they do to make girls like them. Maybe ask them for advice, especially if you're on rez (although that may end up in you being a "let's get him laid" project).

[Serpentine]

I've got a bit of a problem in that I have absolutely no idea how to act around girls.
I recommend a less-intense Romeo, or possibly a McDuff. Hamlet's probably not a good idea unless you're into crazy and/or emo chicks.

Seriously though, why do you think you have to act any way around girls? Most of the decent (note: decent) girls I know are pretty forgiving about not-quite-right behaviour, but mostly... I dunno. We're just people. There's no need to act any way. Just act the way you would around anyone, with individual personalities and good taste in mind (e.g. I know some girls who'd love to talk about pig-hunting and/or find various bodily functions hilarious, but then there's others who'd find either distasteful).

Don Julio Anejo, I'm having issues finding my relevant post, so I'll have to paraphrase myself rather than quote. The thing about "girls like bad guys" is not that they like bad guys, it's that, generally speaking, confidence is sexier/more attractive/more likely to get attention than shyness. The thing your "bad guys" and "comedians" have in common is self-confidence, a way of holding and projecting themselves, a (apparent) lack of self-conciousness. Unfortunately, there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance, between a self-assured, confident person and a phallus, a line both males and females have a distressing amount of trouble recognising. In those exceptions, when a woman is actually attracted to a horrible guy, I think it'd probably be a self-esteem issue, in which case you'd be doing her a big favour by letting her know that decent people find her interesting too.

[Raiser Blade]

Edit: Should be girls there. Though if anyone has some good advice on how to act around grills I wouldn't be adverse to that either.

Generally you wan't to be carefull with any flammable material. Also try to stay away from lighter fluid.

[The White Knight]

B-Man:

I liked this girl about four years back, and the whole situation was very much the same as yours. She had never said anything along the lines of "don't date anyone else", but instead just admitted that she liked me. Yet she wasn't willing to make anything of it, and couldn't really procure a reason as to why. We'd hang out all the time, and talk to each other whenever we weren't hanging out - hell, everybody else in the world was convinced we were dating.

In retrospect, I'm now aware that she was insecure and uncomfortable about herself. She'd just gone through a lot of crap in her life, and hadn't managed to settle herself back in yet - her parents split up a few years prior, she'd been moving all over town for all her life, her family life was a mess, etc. I wasn't the only guy who she gave that sort of treatment to, either, and now I can totally understand why. We're great pals now, and I'm cool with that.

After about a year or so, when things finally began to settle down for her and she was more comfortable with all her new friends, she started dating a good friend of mine, and they got along just fine.

I doubt that's of any help to you, but at least it's another perspective into the mystery that is women :smallbiggrin:

[de-trick]

some how my old girlfriend wants to go out with me again(the one who dumped me after a day when found out my past), she said that since we never knew each other it was awkward, yes it was though we got introduced by a friend. So how to you tell a girl about yourself without it sounding like you in grade 2 "i like the color green"

[Syka]

Well, generally I advise against getting back with exes. But, if you will do it anyway...

What my boy and I do is we have to ask each other specific questions. We've covered just about every topic that way. One of our rules is you aren't allowed to say, "And what about you?" after answering a question. It makes it fun for both parties. :smallsmile:

Cheers,
Syka

[JBakaka]

So how to you tell a girl about yourself without it sounding like you in grade 2 "i like the color green"

and on top of telling about yourself / introducing yourself to new people, how do you get very shy people to speak out? I mean its hard to carry a conversation which goes with one-word answers. :smallannoyed:

[Don Julio Anejo]

and on top of telling about yourself / introducing yourself to new people, how do you get very shy people to speak out? I mean its hard to carry a conversation which goes with one-word answers. :smallannoyed:
For some reason I find shy people very interesting. It feels like they have so much stuff inside (as in a rich internal world) that as soon as they break out of their shell all of it is going to come out.

But I see your point - shy people are impossible to entertain. They just laugh for 3 seconds and then go back to curiously eyeing you (both guys and girls). Usually they tend to get less and less shy the more they get to know you, although I'm not sure if a lot of people are willing to wait. I wasn't - I went out with a girl from work once (and she wasn't even that shy), but one word answers don't make for interesting conversations. It lasted two dates.

[Last_resort_33]

B-Man:

I liked this girl about four years back, and the whole situation was very much the same as yours. She had never said anything along the lines of "don't date anyone else", but instead just admitted that she liked me. Yet she wasn't willing to make anything of it, and couldn't really procure a reason as to why. We'd hang out all the time, and talk to each other whenever we weren't hanging out - hell, everybody else in the world was convinced we were dating.

In retrospect, I'm now aware that she was insecure and uncomfortable about herself. She'd just gone through a lot of crap in her life, and hadn't managed to settle herself back in yet - her parents split up a few years prior, she'd been moving all over town for all her life, her family life was a mess, etc.

Has anyone read Questionable Content (http://www.questionablecontent.net) (the only thing questionable about the content is why it was labeled as questionable) It's entirely story based (so you have to read through it) but one main (coulplea hundred strip) arcs is pretty much about that situation.

Chances are she won't change her mind, but it's worth finding out WHY...

[Syka]

Wow...I'm shocked I didn't think of QC. I read that comic everyday.

Is it bad my friends and I were actually able to find characters in there that paralleled ourselves? Granted...one of them was Pintsize...but that's beside the point. :smallwink:

Cheers,
Syka

[Vuzzmop]

Okay, I went down to Wellington for a holiday, and have just gotten back now. I stayed with my friend, we'll call her sarah, who had a crush on me around sometime last year. I was sure she was over it, as she goes through boyfriends like other people go through cornflakes, but when I get to her place, she's all cuddly and attention grabby. I mean really, really cuddly, in a borderline romantic way. She was making it pretty obvious that a) she is on the rebound, massively, and b) she still has a thing for me that isn't quite reciprocated. She's really nice and I'm attracted to her, but we are too different, and we live on two sides of the north island, so I've only ever considered her as a friend. I can see this getting awkward next time I see her.

[Dragonrider]

For some reason I find shy people very interesting. It feels like they have so much stuff inside (as in a rich internal world) that as soon as they break out of their shell all of it is going to come out.

But I see your point - shy people are impossible to entertain. They just laugh for 3 seconds and then go back to curiously eyeing you (both guys and girls). Usually they tend to get less and less shy the more they get to know you, although I'm not sure if a lot of people are willing to wait. I wasn't - I went out with a girl from work once (and she wasn't even that shy), but one word answers don't make for interesting conversations. It lasted two dates.

Speaking as a person who was very shy for many years - our monosyllabity (I know, I'm making words up :smalltongue:) is as annoying to us as it is to other people. You're sitting there going "Think of something to say...ANYTHING..." but all that comes out is "yes", "no", and "thank you".

Although I'm mostly cured of that, I still don't really know how to draw someone out. Just keep working at them, I suppose - I didn't realize I'd become more talkative until about two weeks ago, when I realized that meeting people isn't awkward anymore. Having spent my whole life dreading conversation, it was quite a surprise. "Hey - I'm good with people all of a sudden!"

[Cyrano]

Speaking as a person who was very shy for many years - our monosyllabity (I know, I'm making words up :smalltongue:) is as annoying to us as it is to other people. You're sitting there going "Think of something to say...ANYTHING..." but all that comes out is "yes", "no", and "thank you".

Although I'm mostly cured of that, I still don't really know how to draw someone out. Just keep working at them, I suppose - I didn't realize I'd become more talkative until about two weeks ago, when I realized that meeting people isn't awkward anymore. Having spent my whole life dreading conversation, it was quite a surprise. "Hey - I'm good with people all of a sudden!"

God, I still do that. What changed you? Electroshock therapy? Overconsumption of vinegar? I'm willing to do anything here.

[de-trick]

so I take her out for dinner and she brought a friend, I'm find with that because were only friends right know, but i never knew one grade difference made a big deal about things(doesn't help ether when she comes from a small farming area either)anyways we run out of things to say, we are alike that we are both shy until we get to know people. should i bring one of my friends next time we go out? or what?

[Raiser Blade]

so I take her out for dinner and she brought a friend, I'm find with that because were only friends right know, but i never knew one grade difference made a big deal about things(doesn't help ether when she comes from a small farming area either)anyways we run out of things to say, we are alike that we are both shy until we get to know people. should i bring one of my friends next time we go out? or what?

If she brings a friend then you should too.

[Pepz]

woooo, a new thread!

yes I know I'm way too late with that, but I don't actively post in here, so I'm excused :smalltongue: I usually just lurk in here, reading whatever advice people give other people, seeing if anything could apply to me.

O yes, I asked for some advice once, and I never actually got to the point of using it :smallfrown: because now we're just friends :smallbiggrin:

Right now, I'm just crushing on one _really_ awesome girl (I told you I was crushing like 6 words ago, so duh :smalltongue: ) But I won't need any real advice till it gets to a further stage *please Thor, please*

De-Trick, I agree with Raiser, if don't bring a friend unless she brings one too. If you actually get some time together, you might get more comfortable with each other. Just talk about something really simple and try to get her into the conversation as much as possible. You said you were both shy, so I assume she'll understand what you're trying to do and join as much as possible.

[Don Julio Anejo]

so I take her out for dinner and she brought a friend, I'm find with that because were only friends right know, but i never knew one grade difference made a big deal about things(doesn't help ether when she comes from a small farming area either)anyways we run out of things to say, we are alike that we are both shy until we get to know people. should i bring one of my friends next time we go out? or what?

Did she bring a guy friend or a girl friend?

By the way, don't bring a friend unless you absolutely know she's going to bring one too. And when you do, "push" (not literally) your friend and her friend together so it's almost like a double date. If you bring your friend and it's just her, she's going to think you guys are friends and just hanging out together.

[de-trick]

it was a girl

[Don Julio Anejo]

it was a girl
Then imo either hit on both of them, which is really fun (unless they just talk to each other all the time) or bring a friend and try to turn it into a double date without actually calling it a double date or suggesting that it is.

[Syka]

Then imo either hit on both of them, which is really fun (unless they just talk to each other all the time) or bring a friend and try to turn it into a double date without actually calling it a double date or suggesting that it is.

Erm...if you like the girl, trust me, hitting on her friend will NOT get you into her good books. :smallconfused: My advice: ask her next time if she is bringing a friend and, if she is, either request that she not or if you can bring one yourself.

But....please don't hit on them both. More often then not, that will make the girl you DO like think you DON'T like her.

Cheers,
Syka...who is sick but not caring...

[Closet_Skeleton]

Isn't it kind of unfair to 'fall in love' with some random person who has nothing to do with you, and then expect them to love you back?

[Brickwall]

Isn't it kind of unfair to 'fall in love' with some random person who has nothing to do with you, and then expect them to love you back?

Yes...

Who ever said fairness ever factored into this? Whoever said that is just sitting in a little box pretending that the world around them doesn't exist, replacing it with some ideal of sunshine and happiness.

[Sir_Norbert]

Isn't it kind of unfair to 'fall in love' with some random person who has nothing to do with you, and then expect them to love you back?
You can hope. You don't have to expect.

[Syka]

CS, pretty much but...all's fair in love and war, as they say. :smallwink:

I've found love to be pretty indiscriminating. It can take you months to fall in love with someone, but mere weeks for it to happen with another person.

Best advice- get to know them, and them to know you. That's probably one of the only ways I could see it working out.



Oh, yeah. Update. Nothing really to update on, other than he visited this weekend and it was loads of fun. Given its long distance, we talk a shocking amount of time even when we see each other. Which is a good thing. :smallsmile: The fear has finally begun to subside, though it's kind of creepy when two friends seperately come to the conclusion that they both can see us staying together for a long time. oO' Hehe. My mom and sister both love him to death, and our main friend in common approves (which would have been a huge hurdle to overcome).

It's all going well, and I don't think there is another shoe to drop. :) It feels good to finally just...trust that it's right and let whatever happens, happen.

This'll probably be the last update you get unless something drastic happens.

Cheers,
Syka

[Closet_Skeleton]

Best advice- get to know them, and them to know you. That's probably one of the only ways I could see it working out.

For me, getting to know someone involves standing next to them dumbfounded until they get creeped out enough to call the authorities.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Erm...if you like the girl, trust me, hitting on her friend will NOT get you into her good books. :smallconfused: My advice: ask her next time if she is bringing a friend and, if she is, either request that she not or if you can bring one yourself.

But....please don't hit on them both. More often then not, that will make the girl you DO like think you DON'T like her.

Cheers,
Syka...who is sick but not caring...
I know it won't make her like you but it's really really fun :biggrin:

By the way, I'm not sure about how she would react if you tell her not to bring a friend. You're safer off bringing your own friend.

[Pepz]

yeah, I doubt that hitting on both of them would help anything if you only want one of them. Can only get you into wacky hijinks, and let me tell you, real life isn't Saved By The Bell :smallwink:. O yeah, and if the one you like notices, or hears about it, that will hurt your chances with her a lot!

[phoenixineohp]

Okay... I'd like to see what other people think about this...

I have a crush on someone who lives across the ocean. We have spent a fair amount of time talking, and they are a part of gitp, but I doubt that they read this thread. If they do, well... we'll see what happens.

I know that there is very little likelihood of anything actually working as there is an ocean between us, but I can't help that I do still have a crush on them. And since I actually have feelings involved, and can't get a good read on them, I don't feel as gutsy and forward as I usually do. Though, supposedly they were at least somewhat interested in me in the beginning as well. They seem happy with whatever I do say or do, but I can't get a good read on where they stand, and like any normal person, I don't want rejection, or to find out that we are on separate pages. I also don't really want to hear reality, but that's another issue.

What I am confused about is the battle between 'they are just not into you' and being very shy. Those tend to give off the same signals sometimes. The person seems happy to talk to me whenever we can, and seems to enjoy the time we do spend talking, but they don't initiate conversation or ask questions. That's what really confuses me. All of our conversations are me trying to get to know them and maybe me telling little stories that are amusing or related to what I asked them. But they just don't ask questions. Now there is a difference between someone saying hi and then begging for a picture, but after talking for quite some time, I kinda wonder why 'So I assume your parents didn't name you Phoenixineohp, did they?' hasn't come up.

So I guess I am wondering, if they haven't even bothered to ask something like my real name, how can I tell between not interested and just shy?

[Syka]

I'm going to venture in the "not interested" category, but they might just feel that the boundary of the internet is not appropriate. I know I can talk to someone forever, but I don't inquire as to real names because I'm not willing to give mine up.

But if they aren't initiating conversation or attempting to keep a conversation moving...they probably aren't into you. Those were both warning signs when my previous two relationships started to fail- they no longer initiated the contact, and if one of us did, it felt like they were being forced. :smallfrown: I could be wrong, though.

Cheers,
Syka

[Logic]

Okay... I'd like to see what other people think about this...

I have a crush on someone who lives across the ocean. We have spent a fair amount of time talking, and they are a part of gitp, but I doubt that they read this thread. If they do, well... we'll see what happens.

I know that there is very little likelihood of anything actually working as there is an ocean between us, but I can't help that I do still have a crush on them. And since I actually have feelings involved, and can't get a good read on them, I don't feel as gutsy and forward as I usually do. Though, supposedly they were at least somewhat interested in me in the beginning as well. They seem happy with whatever I do say or do, but I can't get a good read on where they stand, and like any normal person, I don't want rejection, or to find out that we are on separate pages. I also don't really want to hear reality, but that's another issue.

What I am confused about is the battle between 'they are just not into you' and being very shy. Those tend to give off the same signals sometimes. The person seems happy to talk to me whenever we can, and seems to enjoy the time we do spend talking, but they don't initiate conversation or ask questions. That's what really confuses me. All of our conversations are me trying to get to know them and maybe me telling little stories that are amusing or related to what I asked them. But they just don't ask questions. Now there is a difference between someone saying hi and then begging for a picture, but after talking for quite some time, I kinda wonder why 'So I assume your parents didn't name you Phoenixineohp, did they?' hasn't come up.

So I guess I am wondering, if they haven't even bothered to ask something like my real name, how can I tell between not interested and just shy?Some people don't initiate conversation because that is not their forte. Some people are just terrible at initiating conversation. Not asking questions does seem a little odd. I would think a question would have been asked, whether or not this person* was into you.

And as for real names, I don't ask the real names of people on the internet, I wait for them to volunteer it. Perhaps this person is doing the same?

*Left intentionally gender neutral.

[Sisqui]

^ What he said. Asking for someone's real name on the internet is like asking someone in real life for their social security number. It's really getting into someone's privacy.

[B-Man]

Has anyone read Questionable Content (http://www.questionablecontent.net) (the only thing questionable about the content is why it was labeled as questionable) It's entirely story based (so you have to read through it) but one main (coulplea hundred strip) arcs is pretty much about that situation.

Chances are she won't change her mind, but it's worth finding out WHY...

I'd hate to think that my life can be related to a comic strip. Especially in this way.

Well, here's another update. Yes, I did skip class to visit her on Friday afternoon. We had a really good time. Whilst we were on the bus on the way to her house (I was sort of escorting her home) she says right out of the blue: "[My step-father] doesn't approve of you." I asked her why. We got into a bit of discussion, trying to figure out why, but she ended it saying "don't worry about it" in a sort of, I don't know how to describe tone. It sounded positive.

[Brickwall]

I'm going to venture in the "not interested" category, but they might just feel that the boundary of the internet is not appropriate. I know I can talk to someone forever, but I don't inquire as to real names because I'm not willing to give mine up.

But if they aren't initiating conversation or attempting to keep a conversation moving...they probably aren't into you. Those were both warning signs when my previous two relationships started to fail- they no longer initiated the contact, and if one of us did, it felt like they were being forced. :smallfrown: I could be wrong, though.

Cheers,
Syka

A valid perspective, but there's a whole other way of looking at it.

He might be interested. Might. This sign could either be what Syka said (I, for one, can't get interested in girls over the net), but it could also mean he's interested. Shy guys sometimes worry that what they do might be perceived the wrong way. "Talking to a girl every day on IM just to talk to her? *gasp!* What if she thinks I'm interested in her, but isn't interested in me?! Then she'll stop wanting to talk to me, put me on her Block List [then click OK], and I'll never enjoy the pleasure of her online company again! Logical step! Stop talking to her when she doesn't talk to me first!" I honestly worry that messaging strange girls online every day might make them think I'm being a creep. So I try to keep it to once a week or so, unless there's something I actually want to talk to them about specifically.

Now, I have no idea if he thinks like this, or even if that means he's interested in you, but don't let what Syka said discount the possibility.

Some of the others have said that he might also think that personal info is taboo. Here's a tip: you want him to start, bring it up yourself. Ask him his birthday [and maybe age]. That way you have an excuse to tell him yours, and the exchange has begun. Hopefully it'll make him feel a little more comfortable about A/S/L-info with you, even if the last two are off-limits for the time.

OH! And discreetly find out his relationship status! It won't give away how he feels about you, but if he's dating, step off and move on. Keep talking to him, but scratch him off your list of potential soulmates.

Uhh...so I've basically told you that you have no way of knowing how interested he is in you at this point, but that if you have a crush on him, you should make the first move of trying to get to know him a little better.

B-Man: Wow...parents can be a very hard obstacle to get around in a relationship. Luck.

[phoenixineohp]

Thanks for the advice. I'd like to add a bit, and Brickwall, please tell me what you think once you see this. I know a fair deal about them. I know where they live, work, what they do on weekends, hobbies, who lives with them, in jokes with their friends, how old they are, their first name, (but not birthday)... I know about their family and what the family does for jobs. I've tried, and told them my matching info for a fair bit of that stuff. I guess I just keep waiting for them to ask something out of curiosity.

If a person is really shy, how can one go about 'reading where they are' without scaring them or overstepping if they aren't interested anymore? How forward can I be (safely?) ?

[Brickwall]

Well...this is something my theory does not have a good definition for. I suppose I need to expand it. However, I must ask: did you ask him these things, or did they just come up? I know a good deal more than I'm supposed to about a lot of online friends because of casual conversation, so it's a possibility. If he answered, though...it's probably safe to be at least a little forward. That would probably mean he wanted to let you in on his life, which means he likes you a fair deal at least in the platonic way. And with guys, it's not too hard to get an "upgrade" if you want it.

Seriously, I think you should go for it. It sounds like letting him know you want him in your life a little more too is a good next step, though avoiding the 'R' word and 'L' word and 'C' word might be a good idea. I'm honestly no good with people, so I can't tell you HOW to do this. Going with your gut is not a good idea, really, since it seems to have different motives than your brain. You're not stuck...but you're in a position where the next step is a risky one. Is he worth it? It sounds like he is, and then you should take the risk. So...go get 'em?

*is not used to being asked for follow-up perspective*

[Serpentine]

I agree with Brickwall on this one. Maybe they are interested, maybe not. Either way you're unlikely to find out without asking. Of course, then there's another matter... Is there any point in finding out, or at least in worrying about finding out for any reason other than curiosity and ego-stroking? That is, if they are interested, could such a long-distance relationship be viable for you? If it's who I'm thinking of, I might be able to offer a touch of advice. Or not. Well, I could try to offer advice. Of course, if it is who I'm thinking of, from that list you already know much more about them than I do.

[Vuzzmop]

Okay... I'd like to see what other people think about this...

I have a crush on someone who lives across the ocean. We have spent a fair amount of time talking, and they are a part of gitp, but I doubt that they read this thread. If they do, well... we'll see what happens.

I know that there is very little likelihood of anything actually working as there is an ocean between us, but I can't help that I do still have a crush on them. And since I actually have feelings involved, and can't get a good read on them, I don't feel as gutsy and forward as I usually do. Though, supposedly they were at least somewhat interested in me in the beginning as well. They seem happy with whatever I do say or do, but I can't get a good read on where they stand, and like any normal person, I don't want rejection, or to find out that we are on separate pages. I also don't really want to hear reality, but that's another issue.

What I am confused about is the battle between 'they are just not into you' and being very shy. Those tend to give off the same signals sometimes. The person seems happy to talk to me whenever we can, and seems to enjoy the time we do spend talking, but they don't initiate conversation or ask questions. That's what really confuses me. All of our conversations are me trying to get to know them and maybe me telling little stories that are amusing or related to what I asked them. But they just don't ask questions. Now there is a difference between someone saying hi and then begging for a picture, but after talking for quite some time, I kinda wonder why 'So I assume your parents didn't name you Phoenixineohp, did they?' hasn't come up.

So I guess I am wondering, if they haven't even bothered to ask something like my real name, how can I tell between not interested and just shy?

They may be interested, but may not take you seriously. The internet is not a good way to get a read on a person, and they may not be getting one on you either. Spend more time on it, and maybe they may get to know you as being something more than just phoenixineohp.

[zeratul]

Well The conclusions come. She's dating someone else I found out via my sister. So there you have it, so at this point I'm saying **** it, I'm tired of trying to fix this thing, so I'll probably reiterate how I feel to her later but thats it, I'll use my pain to create music and poetry. Man I knew this year was to good to be true.

Yes I'm blatantly asking for hugs.

:smallfrown: :smallfrown: :smallfrown:

[Sir_Norbert]

*hugs zeratul*

[Syka]

*hugs*

Do you have any other sources to back this up? Rumors and confusion have happened more than once in high school settings.

Cheers,
Syka

[zeratul]

*hugs*

Do you have any other sources to back this up? Rumors and confusion have happened more than once in high school settings.

Cheers,
Syka

She messaged my sister saying she was. And my sister wouldn't lie.

[sktarq]

*tackle-hugs zeratul*
*bouces up*
*messes with Zer's hair*
You'll find better don't worry
*and goes randomly skipping off waving flumphish tenecles*

[Vampiric]

Ouch zer. *hugs* from one guy who knows how you feel. It'll get better:smallwink:

[zeratul]

The worst part is that seeing as (as i told you) I think she thinks I got over her, and she doesn't know I know, were still going to be hanging out alot and all that, which slowly tears apart my soul, I did this two years in middle school, but that was light compared to this. I only liked that person.......

It's not that I don't want to keep hanging out with her it's just that I know this will lead me to become heavily depressed again.

Any advice on that?

[PhoeKun]

The worst part is that seeing as (as i told you) I think she thinks I got over her, and she doesn't know I know, were still going to be hanging out alot and all that, which slowly tears apart my soul, I did this two years in middle school, but that was light compared to this. I only liked that person.......

It's not that I don't want to keep hanging out with her it's just that I know this will lead me to become heavily depressed again.

Any advice on that?

Don't dwell on it. It's only going to be a soul-killer if you keep thinking about it.

It's not that anything happens to make it all stop hurting, but your heart does eventually start to crawl it's way out of the blender.

Of course, if she notices something's wrong in the course of hanging out with you and asks about it, then you should of course let her know. Secrets never helped anyone.

[zeratul]

I think I would feel better If I told her how I felt and all that, but that would be at the risk of my screwing up her new relationship. I wouldn'y want to do that, but I think I need to reiterate them in order for life to not suck (to put it in the bluntest of terms). So should I tell her all of this at the risk of making her feel bad, or hurt myself by not telling her?

[Syka]

Maybe tell her, but impress upon her that you do not want to get between her and her boyfriend, you just needed to get it off your chest for sanities sake. That might work.

Cheers,
Syka

[PhoeKun]

That's not a question you should even have to ask. When you have two options, and Option B is "hurt myself", then always, always choose Option A. Always.

Choose your words as carefully as you think you have to to avoid making her feel bad, but since when does hurting yourself ever help anything?

[Brickwall]

That's not a question you should even have to ask. When you have two options, and Option B is "hurt myself", then always, always choose Option A. Always.

Choose your words as carefully as you think you have to to avoid making her feel bad, but since when does hurting yourself ever help anything?

What about when Option A is "hurt other people"?

In my case, I'd still go with A, but I think your ethics are different than mine.

[zeratul]

Maybe tell her, but impress upon her that you do not want to get between her and her boyfriend, you just needed to get it off your chest for sanities sake. That might work.

Cheers,
Syka

Im not actually sure she knows I know she has a boyfriend. It would seem a little odd if I said I found out from my sister. That's why I thought if I do do this I should not mention her boyfriend in the message

However if I got a response involving "I have a boyfriend" I would do as you recommended and make sure she knows I was not trying to get between them.

[Serpentine]

>muffles a faint "I told you so" under a rib-creaking hug for Zeratul<

[PhoeKun]

What about when Option A is "hurt other people"?

In my case, I'd still go with A, but I think your ethics are different than mine.

In most any situation that is likely to come up in the life of a person, this isn't going to come up. They call it Option C: Compromise.

[Brickwall]

In most any situation that is likely to come up in the life of a person, this isn't going to come up. They call it Option C: Compromise.

...if your theory were true, there would be no such thing as unhappiness. But, look at that, people are unhappy.

Cool down the optimism jets, seriously.

[PhoeKun]

And who said people universally made the correct decision? :smallannoyed:

[Rykaj]

If she messaged your SISTER of all people to tell she has a boyfriend she should've realized you would find out rather quickly. In that case it's fair to assume she knows you know. So you should tell her how you feel, just to get over it. Make sure she knows you don't want to get between her and her new boyfriend. But I think you just need to get this off your chest otherwise it starts eating at you.

[Vampiric]

...if your theory were true, there would be no such thing as unhappiness. But, look at that, people are unhappy.

Cool down the optimism jets, seriously.

Actually, I think that compromise is the point where neither person is truly happy with the outcome, but even so, optimism isn't a bad thing. And even if PhoeKun is really optimistic, I'm sure he knows that there are unhappy people out there. He participates on this thread, at the least...

[landadmiral]

Tell her.

It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

You'll never know till you try.

blah blah blah 1 liners that say you should try. In the end, if the answer is no, then you've tried, you have closure, and you can move on. if you're afraid that it will change the relationship as it stands now, then someone needs maturing. if you were happy with the relationship as it is now, the question never would have been asked.

My dating revolves around a philosophy that has stood every relationship test i've put it to. The philosophy is this:

The end result of dating is to find who you want to spend the rest of your life with. Spend as much time as possible exploring different people, dating, and NOT getting tied down into a serious relationship. How can you know the best for you without having experienced them? Sure, date someone regularly if you like them, but don't commit to a relationship and keep it open (girls really get pissed off at me for it at first, but they end up enjoying it because they end up dating other people for the same reason). If you've been with/dating someone for 6 months and don't know if that is who you want to spend your life with - then move on -
here's my favorite part, when breaking up, i explain my dating philosophy. that the purpose of dating is to find who you want to be with. while we may enjoy each other, i know that i'm not going to spend my life with her and i don't see any reason wasting more of our time together when better is out there for the both of us. yes, i tell her in that manner. very logical and can't be argued with. yeah, hurt feelings occur, but i haven't had any jealous rage or psycho girl reactions to date.

[Syka]

Landadmiral, that's great if that is something you can do.

But it isn't for everyone. I, for one, have a hard time with casual relationships. The one time I tried it, I actually didn't date other people. It was open, but I didn't date other people.

I'm friends with enough guys that I know what I'm looking for in a mate in general. Therefore, I see no reason to "date around".

Keep in mind, that everyone is different. The way you've found works for you, won't work for me, and neither of our ways might work for a third person. It's all in personality.

Cheers,
Syka

[zeratul]

Landadmiral: I'm sure that works for lots of people, I am however what you call a hopeless romantic, casual dating ain't my thing.

So my sister gave me the third option of just not talking to or hanging out with this girl anymore, however I don't like this idea, given that it would empty the options box for the future.

[Brickwall]

It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

I find that phrase stupid. Alfred Tennyson must have forgotten how happy he was before love ever found him. I know the emotional burden would kill me with my workload.

So keep in mind, if you've not had a relationship before, you can avoid all the pain and suffering if you abstain now! Who says you need love to be happy? Lots of famous artists were much happier before significant others messed up their lives. Don't be one of the unfortunates!

That's my dating philosophy. And I can't imagine it not working if people followed it from the beginning.

zer: Reconsider your sister's words. She may or may not be right, but don't dismiss the idea so quickly.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Alfred Tennyson must have forgotten how happy he was before love ever found him.

You can't run from love. If you try it will catch up with you and mug you in an alley.

[Brickwall]

You can't run from love. If you try it will catch up with you and mug you in an alley.

Which is why you make sure it's not looking for you. Duh.

[zeratul]

I find that phrase stupid. Alfred Tennyson must have forgotten how happy he was before love ever found him. I know the emotional burden would kill me with my workload.

So keep in mind, if you've not had a relationship before, you can avoid all the pain and suffering if you abstain now! Who says you need love to be happy? Lots of famous artists were much happier before significant others messed up their lives. Don't be one of the unfortunates!

That's my dating philosophy. And I can't imagine it not working if people followed it from the beginning.

zer: Reconsider your sister's words. She may or may not be right, but don't dismiss the idea so quickly.

Well the way I figured it, given how my emotions work, continuing to hang out with her, or severing my ties would be equally painful. However if I were to continue to hang out with her, and then she broke up with the person she's dating, I could take that opportunity to reiterate how I feel and such.

I have also decided that as you guys recommended, If she notices somethings wrong I won't lie, and will explain the situation.

[Brickwall]

Well the way I figured it, given how my emotions work, continuing to hang out with her, or severing my ties would be equally painful. However if I were to continue to hang out with her, and then she broke up with the person she's dating, I could take that opportunity to reiterate how I feel and such.

I have also decided that as you guys recommended, If she notices somethings wrong I won't lie, and will explain the situation.

Don't blame me if she thinks you're a creep for just lying in wait. Seriously, moving on could be healthy, ever consider it?

[zeratul]

I wouldn't be hanging out for that reason, it's because we're friends and I like to hang out with her, despite the aforementioned pain it would casue. And I wouldn't call what I'm doing creepish, I'm saying if they break up, at some point after that I could reiterate how I feel, as opposed to doing it know which would get between her and the person she's dating. And as far as moving on goes, did you ot see the hopeless romantic thing a minute ago?

[Brickwall]

I wouldn't be hanging out for that reason, it's because we're friends and I like to hang out with her, despite the aforementioned pain it would casue. And I wouldn't call what I'm doing creepish, I'm saying if they break up, at some point after that I could reiterate how I feel, as opposed to doing it know which would get between her and the person she's dating. And as far as moving on goes, did you ot see the hopeless romantic thing a minute ago?

So you're hanging out with her even though you dislike it just because you want to be in a relationship with her? Sounds creepish to me. :smallconfused:

Anyway, if you don't care enough about your own happiness to learn to let go, there's no helping you. Go wallow in self pity, if that's all you want to be good at.

[Dragonrider]

Zer: This happened to me. I was on your end, I mean, of finding out about it through the grapevine and having to deal with that. I told him - both that I knew about him and her and how I felt about him. Said I was done with that now and I just wanted to let him know how I had felt for closure's sake. I wanted to explain how I'd felt for two years and that he didn't need to worry or wonder if he was hurting me because I was over him. I lied about that, but I figured I had to, because after I said it, there was no going back.

At the time, it hurt. A lot. But I was stubborn enough with myself that now we have a comfortable friendship relationship, and yes, I am over it. The question is: are you willing to move on? If you're not, then yes, "keep on keeping on", or whatever you want to do. My advice: It's time to let go. Tell her and be done with it. :smallsmile:

I'm not telling you it's impossible that she'll like you someday, but I am telling you that you can't waste your life on this. You'll be happier if you don't, and hopeless romantic or not, you need to be honest with yourself.

Ok, I'm a realist. But I HAVE been in your shoes and I know how much this hurts. If you can hang in there, after the first month...it gets better.

[zeratul]

So you're hanging out with her even though you dislike it just because you want to be in a relationship with her? Sounds creepish to me. :smallconfused:

Anyway, if you don't care enough about your own happiness to learn to let go, there's no helping you. Go wallow in self pity, if that's all you want to be good at.

*sigh* I just bloody said that I also want to hang out with her despite the fact that it's unpleasant. I also as I said like her as a friend. I accept the fact that it will be painful because, severing all ties would be more painful, and would eliminate any possabillity, of me going out with her in the future. I'm not just lying in wait to see if I can get her to date me or something.

Thus, I am thinking this through rationally, not wallowing in self pity. This option is the compromise, both of the other ones have negative repercussions for either her, or her, and me. This only has negative repercussions for me.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Which is why you make sure it's not looking for you. Duh.

Animals have a natural urge for companionship. Hermiting doesn't work for most people.

[Brickwall]

Animals have a natural urge for companionship. Hermiting doesn't work for most people.

What makes you think I was talking about running away from humanity? I happen to know these things, you know. I just meant love, not any other kind of relationship.

See what it does to your brain? Makes you say inane stuff like "You'd need to never see people to not fall in love." It's poison I tell you. :smallsigh:

[Rykaj]

*snickers at Brickie*
I completely disagree with you, but I know better than to argue haha :smalltongue:


And Zer, you're causing yourself needless pain, but we've all explained that I think. Especially Dragonrider, seeing as she's been in nearly the same situation. But if you're really into the whole masochistic trip, keep us posted about developments and stuff.

[Brickwall]

*snickers at Brickie*
I completely disagree with you, but I know better than to argue haha :smalltongue:

Bah. Intimidating people isn't as fun as arguing, but I suppose it's less likely to break the board rules. Though I am curious as to which point you're in disagreement with: zer or love?

[Ranis]

Okay, well, if it's not one thing then it's another. I bring to you all my latest conundrum, and I have mixed feelings about the whole thing.

To shorten this story significantly, a mutual friend whom I thought wouldn't go anymore than just being a mutual friend due to her being extremely attractive. She asked me how much I made at work, and upon me telling her, she says to me, "That's just enough to take me out to dinner." O.o. So, we set up something for next Thursday, and I pick a nice restaurant to take her out to.

So I talk to her online over the course of the week, and she gets this great idea to get a bit more fun if we instead go over to her place, watch the entirety of LOTR (which she has never seen), eat some Chinese takeout, and chill. I'm totally cool with this; then things get a little more interesting.

She begins (what I think is) joking about [reaping the harvest] during and after our little movie extravaganza, and I play along, thinking that she's just poking fun at the whole situation. After I woke up the next morning, I began to seriously wonder if she actually was joking, and I caught her online and asked her.

She informed me that we were looking at one of two things: the first, we would begin a relationship and date. The stipulation to this is that she is moving to Ohio in August, and she made that painstakingly clear. The second option that she was also totally cool with would be us becoming (for a board-appropriate term) butt-buddies. Her stipulations with the latter were that either one of us could call it off if we didn't think it was working out, we wouldn't get jealous of each other, and if one of us began dating someone seriously, we'd break it off, no harm done and no hard feelings.

What do you think I should do? I'm getting mixed responses from all of my friends, and it's really just being more confusing than I cared it to get. I'd really like some input, and any kind would be helpful.

(If this is inappropriate, then I can delete this post and move it to the PM-ing stage; just let me know.)

[Syka]

I think the term is friends with benefits. And, really, it depends on what YOU are able to do. Some people are perfectly ok with that situation. Most can't do it without feelings getting too involved and one caring more than the other party. Not that it doesn't happen in other relationships, but it's more apparent with FWB.

Me, I can't do it. The last relationship I was in bordered on fwb, and it started driving me nuts after a few months. I'm the type of person that, when I'm with someone, I'm with them totally...no one else. Thankfully, I managed to get a hold of someone with similar views.

If you both like each other and would otherwise enjoy a relationship if she wasn't moving, then do a relationship. I've given my speil on long distance before, but to sum it up- it's worth it, if you care for the person.

Cheers,
Syka

[Serpentine]

It really is entirely up to you. I haven't experienced one first-hand, but I get the distinct impression long-distance relationships are really hard. Basically, if you went for relationship, would you want it and be devoted enough to it to make it work? If so, you're better than me. If not, the "other option" might be worth a try. If you go for that one, though, I recommend you keep close tabs on your feelings. At the very first twinge of jealousy or other possessiveness, reassess the situation with her. You might end up taking the next step, breaking it off or simply altering the rules a little. But it'll be very hard, I think, to make it work without any bad blood springing up, and communication will still be key.
By the way, I find it interesting that you didn't think anything would happen with her because she's "extremely attractive". And you lot wonder why good girls end up with bad guys... :smallsigh: :smalltongue:

[Syka]

By the way, I find it interesting that you didn't think anything would happen with her because she's "extremely attractive". And you lot wonder why good girls end up with bad guys... :smallsigh: :smalltongue:

Very good point. :) Y'all underestimate yourselves. Just because you aren't 'typically' attractive, doesn't mean you aren't. :smallamused: Trust me on this one.

Cheers,
Syka

[Brickwall]

So, wait, let me get this straight. There's a hot girl. She wants to be FWB with you, and nothing more. And you're not sure if you should or not.

Look, normally I don't have that much concern for you guys and your emotional screwiness, but the Code of Manliness Section 1 Paragraph IV states the following:

"...but if the potential partner wishes only to partake in sexual activity for the enjoyment, and all emotions relating to it are removed for the duration of the relationship, the Man is expected to take full advantage of the situation so long as he meets the aforementioned stipulations (Paragraph III goes into availability)..."

All men around you who abide by The Code will be hostile to you if you go against The Code. If you decide not to be FWB with the hot girl, I don't care, but your male friends will go after her and/or beat you.

Just a friendly reminder from your local Enforcer of Manliness. Carry on.

[Serpentine]

Brickers, it is extremely difficult to keep emotion out of sex, especially if it happens repeatedly (with the same person, of course). As my sister said once (with reference to cheating, but I think it still works in a way): Once is a bit of fun, twice is a mistake, and thrice is forming a relationship.

[Hell Puppi]

^ I can second and give examples to the truth for the above quote.

[Amotis]

Its seems the only time I come here is to say that people are different and that extreme statements hardly ever work when alluding to a relationship, which is two people, which are, go back to point a; different.

Hehe...buttbuddies...:smallamused:

But in Ranis' situation I'll sound with the majority but only because of what she said. Being the two path thing. If she's open to a relationship with you that means she's capable and open to being with you. Like being being. FWB (and all the small categories within it) can only really work if both parties are really set on that being the only thing. There can't be a maybeeee....let's try this in absence of a relationship, sorta thing. It'll just dissolve into a relationship or nothing. Your hesitation, her openness to a dating relationship, these things spell a no. Or a try the relationship route.

In another more vague situation, which people seem to be addressing, I'd disagree with the majority for the sake of sounding the difference mantra.

[Rogue 7]

*sigh* I just bloody said that I also want to hang out with her despite the fact that it's unpleasant. I also as I said like her as a friend. I accept the fact that it will be painful because, severing all ties would be more painful, and would eliminate any possabillity, of me going out with her in the future. I'm not just lying in wait to see if I can get her to date me or something.

Thus, I am thinking this through rationally, not wallowing in self pity. This option is the compromise, both of the other ones have negative repercussions for either her, or her, and me. This only has negative repercussions for me.

Heh. I feel your pain, brother. I was decent friends with plenty of girls I liked a lot throughout High School, and was too much of a damn coward to tell them how I felt. Long story short, I'd just hang out with them. If you acknowledge to yourself that you're not going to be with them, the feeling should go away fairly quickly (or at least you can supress it easily). I don't know your exact situation, admittedly, but I wasn't miserable through high school.

Side note- College is better. There's one girl I do like who I think likes me (will be asking her out shortly).

[Pepz]

Side note- College is better. There's one girl I do like who I think likes me (will be asking her out shortly).

I just wandered in and read this line....except I read it with one "like" less :smallsmile: and was surprised that you were gonna ask her out while already getting her in your bed :smallbiggrin: took me a few re-reads to see the like

and yeah, on account of being a Code Brother I need to agree with Brickwall :smallcool: never thought that would happen :smallamused:

[Logic]

@Zeratul: I hate to say it, and hated to hear it when this same advice was directed at me, but you are young, and the problem actually stems from your lack of experience with love. Though these may be the most intense feelings you have ever encountered, as you get older, you will understand them a little better. It is a little hard to direct any specific advice to you without knowing a little more about your situation, but I believe I was in your shoes more than once when I was but I wee lad. I invite you to tell me in as much detail as you choose to a PM. I will be happy to offer any further advice.

@Ranis: Ask yourself this: What would you rather have? A relationship with this woman, or a consistant booty call? Once you have decided that, be sure to know the pros & cons of each situation, and see if the benefits are worth the risk of the drawbacks.

[Last_resort_33]

@Zeratul:[B]@Ranis: Ask yourself this: What would you rather have? A relationship with this woman, or a consistant booty call? Once you have decided that, be sure to know the pros & cons of each situation, and see if the benefits are worth the risk of the drawbacks.

BUT... If the answer is even PARTIALLY the former, then that's what you need to make work... I have NEVER seen a FWB relationship work properly.... either it ends in big tears and severe mental **** ups in the case of at least one of the people concerned, OR it turns into a relationship.

meh, who am I to say?

Oh, and Zet: I understand what you're saying, and I agree totally. Please don't take offense, as I don't know you very well, but don't get your hopes up.

[Brickwall]

Brickers, it is extremely difficult to keep emotion out of sex, especially if it happens repeatedly (with the same person, of course). As my sister said once (with reference to cheating, but I think it still works in a way): Once is a bit of fun, twice is a mistake, and thrice is forming a relationship.

What, you think I don't know that? The code of manliness was written the day a human was born with a Y chromosome, not by me less than a day ago. Really now...

[Closet_Skeleton]

What, you think I don't know that?

Well, you did just make several posts implying that love is an easy to avoid choice, so the unrequited love people who usually post on this thread aren't going to think you understand them.

[Brickwall]

Well, you did just make several posts implying that love is an easy to avoid choice, so the unrequited love people who usually post on this thread aren't going to think you understand them.

How illogical. You don't have to think something's sensible to understand it. Otherwise, psychologists would all have to be clinically insane, now wouldn't they?

[Syka]

Heh. I feel your pain, brother. I was decent friends with plenty of girls I liked a lot throughout High School, and was too much of a damn coward to tell them how I felt. Long story short, I'd just hang out with them. If you acknowledge to yourself that you're not going to be with them, the feeling should go away fairly quickly (or at least you can supress it easily). I don't know your exact situation, admittedly, but I wasn't miserable through high school.

Side note- College is better. There's one girl I do like who I think likes me (will be asking her out shortly).

Please...please...pleeeease tell us how you feel. :smallsigh: I mean, don't be obsessive, but if you like a girl, tell her! I only found out recently (two years removed from high school) that at least one guy I went to school with has liked me for a while, and a few others from my main group evidently thought I was gorgeous. (From my current boy:"Yeah, I told Zach, 'She's pretty cute' and he told me 'Wait until you meet her sister.'" This was in regards to us trying to remember when we first met, and remembering he actually had met my sister first, despite the group being my friends. I also found out that at least one of them was disappointed I got with my boy, because of the fact he liked me...which I never knew...><)

Funniest part- one of the guys in that main group...if he had expressed interest in me before I got together with my first boyfriend (who I was with for over three years)...I'd've dated him. I wouldn't now for a few reasons but.....

I cannot impress upon you guys this enough...

...YOU NEVER KNOW UNLESS YOU TRY.

*ahem* Thank you. ;)

Cheers,
Syka

[Rogue 7]

Meh, like I said, I'm a damned coward. There's no excuse, I just froze up whenever I'd try and do it. Logically, I know and get what you're saying, but when your gut's telling you in ways that makes it feel like you've just been punched, it's pretty damn difficult.

Pepz- I wish.

[B-Man]

I know that feeling Rogue. I pulled my friend aside (who I was and still in love with) and tried to tell her. I just started stuttering and just had to leave the area. :smalleek:

[borninbones]

@Ranis- I think some may have missed the fact that she is moving to Ohio. Even though the choice is up to you, I went the distance for a girl once and moved to the middle of nowhere and trust me, unless you have more then feelings for this woman, don't do it. Its a bad idea to move anywhere for anyone without being absolutely positive you want to. And if you feel like trying a long distance relationship, remember that they aren't for everyone, they are hard, they (moreso then regular relationships) take work.

EDIT: oh yeah, I have to agree with Last resort on fwb.

[Syka]

@Ranis- I think some may have missed the fact that she is moving to Ohio. Even though the choice is up to you, I went the distance for a girl once and moved to the middle of nowhere and trust me, unless you have more then feelings for this woman, don't do it. Its a bad idea to move anywhere for anyone without being absolutely positive you want to. And if you feel like trying a long distance relationship, remember that they aren't for everyone, they are hard, they (moreso then regular relationships) take work.

EDIT: oh yeah, I have to agree with Last resort on fwb.

He didn't mention moving himself, but I know what you are saying. It can happen even if you ARE in a committed relationship. My ex broke up with me two months before I was supposed to move to his area and we had been together three years. -- But no, I didn't miss the fact she was moving to Ohio. Either way, his choice is still relationship or fwb, even if the former would eventualyl result in a long distance thing.

And all that is true about long distance, but they can also be incredibly rewarding. You don't take the person for granted and (usually) you get to know THEM. Physical stuff can still be there, but it is set up in such a way that that can't be the only thing keeping the relationship together.

Cheers,
Syka

[landadmiral]

I wouldn't be hanging out for that reason, it's because we're friends and I like to hang out with her, despite the aforementioned pain it would casue. And I wouldn't call what I'm doing creepish, I'm saying if they break up, at some point after that I could reiterate how I feel, as opposed to doing it know which would get between her and the person she's dating. And as far as moving on goes, did you ot see the hopeless romantic thing a minute ago?

ok, there are a couple problems with what you just said, they've been pointed out by brickie and your still fine with that. Lets try a different way of explaining it...

When someone goes hunting for ducks, part of the thrill of hunting is the hunt! When a duck follows you around while hunting, where's the fun in that? Or if you find a duck unable to run/fly away such as a lame duck, where's the fun in that?

Same thing with dating. It is a time to have fun, thrill of the chase, first time kiss, etc. Where is the fun of hooking up with the guy following you around all the time? Because all that your doing is hoping for her relationship to fail, to have the possible opportunity for her to notice you, to allow you to explain your feelings for her...then what?
Dude, if it hasn't happened yet, don't expect it to. alas the hopeless romantic, i get it. lets try and be a hopeful romantic shall we?

Explore, date around. When you are having fun and you are outgoing regardless of her presence, she will then begin to notice you a little more. who knows, you might find someone more interesting in the process.

For some kind of contextual reference, watch the movie Shallow Hal. Hal was unable to score with the hot next door neighbor till Hal started dating other women and had fun doing so.

[Rogue 7]

All well and good, but what if you're just friends with the person? What if you don't want to lose that friendship? It's perfectly possible to hang out with a female friend you used to like and still play the field.

[Syka]

ok, there are a couple problems with what you just said, they've been pointed out by brickie and your still fine with that. Lets try a different way of explaining it...

When someone goes hunting for ducks, part of the thrill of hunting is the hunt! When a duck follows you around while hunting, where's the fun in that? Or if you find a duck unable to run/fly away such as a lame duck, where's the fun in that?

Same thing with dating. It is a time to have fun, thrill of the chase, first time kiss, etc. Where is the fun of hooking up with the guy following you around all the time? Because all that your doing is hoping for her relationship to fail, to have the possible opportunity for her to notice you, to allow you to explain your feelings for her...then what?

Sometimes, but not strictly true. I know myself and several of my friends don't express interest in guys, even if we like them, unless we get some sort of positive sign from them that something can happen.

I'm not saying that doesn't work, but realize- guys are expected to make the first move. Also realize, girls are told the same thing. That guys like the thrill of the hunt and not give in too easily and stuff. If both parties do that, there will never be a relationship to have fail.

Not everyone is the same. Remember this.

Cheers.
Syka

[Kaelaroth]

I'm dumped. :smallfrown:

[landadmiral]

Not everyone is the same. Remember this.

True, specific situations and individuals are not the same. But, generalizations are also true AND hold true to the masses *can't wait for the flames on this statement*

My dating career lasted till i was 26. about 150 different girls. lotsa fun. lotsa heart-ache too. but i chalk it up to experience. i even dated my wife when we were in high school for just a couple dates. i asked one of her friends out on a date before anything got serious and then she refused to go out with me again for about 10 years. :smallmad: yes, i'd try asking her out about 1x year during those 10 years and i stopped asking her out b/c i finally got the message.
well, my wife asked me out prior to the whole marriage thing. i'd see her hanging out with friends, would flirt with her, was dating a different girl and was fun to be around. the 'other' girl i was dating got dumped, dated my wife for 4 months in an open relationship till we knew we wanted to be married and went from dating relationship to engaged. so i have just a little experience with dating and end results.

point is - explore, have fun, if you're enjoyable to be around, you'll get noticed, take part in the thrill of the hunt, but don't sit around waiting for a relationship to fail just to share feelings, there are WAY TOO MANY women to chase in the mean-time.

[Syka]

Wrong. You have experience with YOU'RE way of dating. I know many people who would be exceedingly unhappy with the manner of dating you proscribed. I also know people who would be unhappy with the manner of dating I choose to do (which is serious relationships, I don't do casual). My dating experience is not as extensive as yours (three relationships, but all long term), but that does not make my experience any less valid. One of those was very close to ending in marriage, and for the vast majority of the time we were together it was very functional- moreso than most people I know.

You make it sound like us women are just something to be caught and played with until you find one which you would like to keep for the rest of your life. I take offense to that.

I also think you are wrong in thinking that the general population, as a whole, enjoys casual dating. The vast majority of people I talk to (yes, people other than my friends/age group/etc) don't like casual dating. As a society we may be pressured into it at times, but most people I talk to do not prefer it as their means of a relationship.



Kael, *biiig hugs* I know the pain. My PM box is always open.

Cheers,
Syka

[Rykaj]

I've seen FWB's work (am I alone on this one?). A friend of mine was in one and it actually faded over nicely into a relationship with someone else, it was really weird. For me that is, but that's because I couldn't see myself in a such a situation.

I've seen them fail as well, but my point is more that FWB does work, but only in the right mindset. And following on that:


If she's open to a relationship with you that means she's capable and open to being with you. Like being being. FWB (and all the small categories within it) can only really work if both parties are really set on that being the only thing. There can't be a maybeeee....let's try this in absence of a relationship, sorta thing. It'll just dissolve into a relationship or nothing. Your hesitation, her openness to a dating relationship, these things spell a no. Or a try the relationship route.

Amotis is completely right on this one, he even expressed it nicely in text, which is never a forte for me in English. If she's willing to start a relationship she has more feelings than just interest in the benefits. I'd say it's a real dating relationship or nothing but your regular friendship.
But think of it, she moves away in august! That's an awful long time, lots of things can happen. The relationship could cool and break off, or otherwise by that time it's probably serious enough that you'd want to have that long distance relationship. If I were in your shoes, I'd give it a try and just see where you'll end up.


And about dating experience. Landadmiral and Syka are both right. If you date a lot, you get experience in it, learn how to do it better and 'play the field' for lack of a better expression. But that's only if you can do it mentally! I know people who get completely stressed out because of it and they shouldn't do it. I myself like it actually. But the thing is (and to reiterate Syka): you never know until you try! So go ahead and ask that girl out right away! Or at least make your interest known, it has never ever hurt anyone, I can guarantee that!

[Leper_Kahn]

Or at least make your interest known, it has never ever hurt anyone, I can guarantee that!

I really wish this was true. In my case I was developing a friendship with a girl. I asked her out and we haven't spoken since...

[zeratul]

point is - explore, have fun, if you're enjoyable to be around, you'll get noticed, take part in the thrill of the hunt, but don't sit around waiting for a relationship to fail just to share feelings, there are WAY TOO MANY women to chase in the mean-time.

I'm more Syka like in this matter LA. I'm to introverted, and shy to date around and all that. For me personally it would be less fun more excruciating.

[Tarnag40k]

I really wish this was true. In my case I was developing a friendship with a girl. I asked her out and we haven't spoken since...

^ well theres your problem.

It's been my experiance that most girls in highschool don't want to date a friend, due to the fact that nce they see you as a friend it's hard for to see them as anything else. And admitting feeling for someone in a situatuion pretty much ****s it up, they still like you as a friend, but are so awkward around you.

trust me, I've been threw that, the best thing is to try to keep yourself far enough away to stay mysterious without showing to much interest in her. If it's going to be hard for her to have you, then she'll want you. The hard to get game isn't just for girls, it's for both sides. Why? because it's natural human instinct to want what you can't have.



The only problem is now, that I've actually met a girl I really like, and well now , I find myself findng those rules hard to follow.

I need to think of something to ask her to accompany me to, I'm trying to go for something fun, original and doesn't exactly yell out the message to much, but with just enough to nibble on. Seriously this is easier when I just find the girl attractive, because to tell the truth it's like, so what if she ends up not likely me.

[Brickwall]

And just not caring at all will make the problems go away. Hooray!

Of course, not caring only seems to work for the strong of temperament. Go figure.

Still, give it a try, you don't know if you can until you do! :smallbiggrin:

[Don Julio Anejo]

Okay guys, sorry I couldn't post for a week and a half... First a trip home on Thanksgiving that left me no time to do anything other than check facebook on the computer, then some computer troubles on my laptop that left me internetless for three days (which made my life hell considering my cell also broke on Friday and I had to walk around trying to make plans with people.... NOT fun).

Personal opinion: I'm with Landadmiral on this. Even though I don't have his experience, mine is in only in mid teens if you count sexual ones (to exclude girls I've had a few dates with but things didn't work out I.E. she didn't like me or I didn't like her), but I understand his point. If you sit around waiting for something to happen, it simply won't happen. GO OUT AND ASK HER OUT. If not, someone else will. Which will make you twice as miserable - first because you're waiting to be noticed, then because she's with someone else.

This applies to girls too - even though usually sitting around batting eyelashes and acting cute could work, it won't if the guy you're after is either shy or just plain doesn't get it and can't tell "slightly tired" facial expression from "get the f*ck out of my face right now or I'll smack it."

There's no rule saying you can't go from playing around to a serious relationship. And you won't hold on to a bad relationship this way because you know that the next one is just around the corner. I'm sorry, but I really hate to see people moping and crying to their friends when both would be better off if they just broke up.

[Brickwall]

This applies to girls too - even though usually sitting around batting eyelashes and acting cute could work, it won't if the guy you're after is either shy or just plain doesn't get it and can't tell "slightly tired" facial expression from "get the f*ck out of my face right now or I'll smack it."

I can't help but be amused by this, because I know many people, in the same proportion in both males and females, for whom the two states usually coincide. Note to guys: don't let the fact that she hurts you often convince you that she wouldn't be interested. There are people for whom hurting is an emotionally neutral action.

Yes, those are the kind of people I generally spend my time with. I know many things about them. If you have an abusive friend and need some advice handling them, it sucks to be you, but I'll still help.

[Serpentine]

There are people for whom hurting is an emotionally neutral action.
Or positive :smallbiggrin:
<.<
>.>
>wanders off looking for a boyfriend to bite<
>remembers he's absent<
>gnaws on cat<

[Charity]

>gnaws on cat<

Must ... resist ... pun.

[Brickwall]

Or positive :smallbiggrin:
<.<
>.>
>wanders off looking for a boyfriend to bite<
>remembers he's absent<
>gnaws on cat<

Right, that too. Wanted to keep the discussion cleanish, though. :smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

On the topic of pain, here's a question for you. Parents always tell their (female, at least) children that boys pick on girls they like. Personally, I've always been rather skeptical of this. Is my skepticism justified?

Also, Charity: :smallannoyed: I wanted to respond, but I've already been told off for excessive innuendo =(

[Brickwall]

On the topic of pain, here's a question for you. Parents always tell their (female, at least) children that boys pick on girls they like. Personally, I've always been rather skeptical of this. Is my skepticism justified?

Not really. Boys pick on people they care to invest effort in. They might just dislike the person, but it might also mean they want to be their friend. They pick on other guys too.

Personally, these days I only tease people who are already friends, and they tease me back. So it can easily be a sign of friendship. You don't need to take it only as that, but it's not an incorrect theory.

Here's the clincher: if he doesn't get angry when you tease back, he probably likes you (yes, I'm sure you're not talking about your own situation or something, but 2nd person pronouns are serving me well at the moment).

[Closet_Skeleton]

On the topic of pain, here's a question for you. Parents always tell their (female, at least) children that boys pick on girls they like. Personally, I've always been rather skeptical of this. Is my skepticism justified?

It can be true, but only for useless idiot boys like me.

[Serpentine]

Here's the clincher: if he doesn't get angry when you tease back, he probably likes you (yes, I'm sure you're not talking about your own situation or something, but 2nd person pronouns are serving me well at the moment).
It was something my mother told me when I was in high school... primary school too, actually, but you're right, I'm hardly in need of such advice now.

[Charity]

On the topic of pain, here's a question for you. Parents always tell their (female, at least) children that boys pick on girls they like. Personally, I've always been rather skeptical of this. Is my skepticism justified?

Ok, I think it comes down to boys not being able to easily express positive feelings, especially when they are young.(Yes this is a generalisation, so sue me)
Boys are very unlikely to compliment their friends, in fact are generally vile and unpleasent in a jokey way. It seems to be fairly universal, though there are of course exceptions.
They are no different with girls they like, it is not as if they are any worse to the girls they like than they are to their male friends, in fact they would almost certainly never dream of being as savage to girls as they would to their male mates.(worst sentence ever... anywho...)
In summery boys are -
horrible to girls they like, vile to their friends, deeply unpleasent to their parents/tutors and dispicable to people they genuinly dislike... boys are great arn't we... if your lucky some of them will grow into men... the rest you might as well write off.


Also, Charity: :smallannoyed:

But but I resisted
(hastled over innuendo eh? I prob ought be more careful then)

[Rykaj]

On the topic of pain, here's a question for you. Parents always tell their (female, at least) children that boys pick on girls they like. Personally, I've always been rather skeptical of this. Is my skepticism justified?

That's only reliable up to age 12, after that it starts getting more and more random. Some still do in that way, some actually mean it and some just pick on their friends. Most just don't do it at all. At least that's how it was when I grew up.

Picking on people is just a childish expression that lasts until you start giving actual words to your feelings. Like what Charity said in fact.

[Syka]

*sniffsniff* I feel like a mother bear who has sucesfully raised her cub to survive the wilds of the internet. Hehe.

Sorry for my absence, haven't really had much to say that hasn't been said and I've been pretty stressed. This absence will be continuing for some time until I feel I have sufficiently seperated the internet from the parasitic hold it currently has on my life. :)

But, as I said, I'll be keeping up on this and adding in whenever I have something useful to say. :smallsmile:

All advice thus sounds good. :smallwink:

Cheers,
Syka...who agrees with Serp about the 'positive' aspect. ;)

[FdL]

*self-bubbles*


^ What he said. Asking for someone's real name on the internet is like asking someone in real life for their social security number. It's really getting into someone's privacy.

I don't agree. Different people handle that differently. The degree of anonimity depends on the person and so I don't think there can be a fixed etiquette regarding that point. I'm all against internet anonimity and hiding behind virtual masks. Then again I understand its dangers and negative aspects, but I still act on my belief that internet anonimity keeps people even a little further from each other (thus "de-personalizing", de-humanizing them a little).

[sktarq]

On the topic of pain, here's a question for you. Parents always tell their (female, at least) children that boys pick on girls they like. Personally, I've always been rather skeptical of this. Is my skepticism justified?

Yep some do. Highly age dependent. Works the other way too-I wish I was joking. Various girlfriends
A) gave me a dead-arm or dead-leg for about 4-6 months every day before we stared dating
B) smacked me upside the head for the crime of making eye contact
C)biting my neck to say hello
....yes I know odd people...no unlike allot of peope I don't like pain.

[Leper_Kahn]

Trust me, I've been threw that, the best thing is to try to keep yourself far enough away to stay mysterious without showing to much interest in her. If it's going to be hard for her to have you, then she'll want you. The hard to get game isn't just for girls, it's for both sides. Why? because it's natural human instinct to want what you can't have.


Wow. I never thought of that. :smallconfused:

I think I'll try it. Thanks for the help! I didn't even know I'd find any.

As to Brickwall's response. I think, at least in this case, trying to pursue her would just scare her. She seemed thrown off enough when I asked her out.

[Brickwall]

As to Brickwall's response. I think, at least in this case, trying to pursue her would just scare her. She seemed thrown off enough when I asked her out.

Yeah, so don't care. That's my point. I think you misinterpreted when I said "give it a try". :smallconfused:

[Don Julio Anejo]

I can't help but be amused by this, because I know many people, in the same proportion in both males and females, for whom the two states usually coincide. Note to guys: don't let the fact that she hurts you often convince you that she wouldn't be interested. There are people for whom hurting is an emotionally neutral action.

Yes, those are the kind of people I generally spend my time with. I know many things about them. If you have an abusive friend and need some advice handling them, it sucks to be you, but I'll still help.
Weird, but I've never met a person where the two states coincide. Usually it's pretty obvious (in everyone) if the person is just a little tired, is agitated, or is about to beat the living hell out of you. And I've worked as both a barista and a bit as a bartender, so it's not just the people I hang out with that I used as a sample.



^ What he said. Asking for someone's real name on the internet is like asking someone in real life for their social security number. It's really getting into someone's privacy.
It depends on the person. I wouldn't really care if you guys read stuff like my Facebook page or even my msn logs. What I don't want is someone I know in real life reading this forum and figuring out Don Julio is me, for various reasons (such as me telling stuff I wouldn't tell people in real life). I've had one too many bad experiences with rumors.

Physically hurting: could be one of two things. Simple bullying (guys don't just pick on guys unfortunately). Or for a lot of people, that's how they flirt. I poke girl for example. Or one girl I knew, everytime I made her laugh, she would punch my arm. Not that I mind, but she actually punched it and it actually hurt.

sktarq, in your case that's flirting. They liked you, that's why they did stuff like that.

PS: I'm taking back advice about hitting on two girls that are friends when you're only interested in one. Backfired on me :frown:

[Syka]

PS: I'm taking back advice about hitting on two girls that are friends when you're only interested in one. Backfired on me :frown:

A good person would refrain from saying what I will: told ya so. :smallamused: Sorry. I'm sorry to hear that, but take it from a girl- it doesn't work.

Cheers,
Syka...whose only problem is he isn't close enough...:smallfrown:

[Serpentine]

Oooo do tell, Don.

[Dragonrider]

Serp, I think everyone's mom tells them that boys are mean to girls because they like them. And I think girls do the same thing, too: my brother once came home from the ice skating rink complaining about a girl who was throwing snowballs at him "for no reason at all" because "I just skated by her", and my mom and I looked at each other and grinned.

Maybe it's because I've grown up with a dad who does the same thing, but I tend to jokingly mock people whom I admire and/or respect. it's like a disease; I can't stop it! :smalltongue:

[Dean Fellithor]

would talking about a Girl that you like that has just broken up with her boyfriend and now I 'wan't to move in' go here?

[Brickwall]

would talking about a Girl that you like that has just broken up with her boyfriend and now I 'wan't to move in' go here?

Yes, yes it would. Hopefully with better capitalization, though.

[Dean Fellithor]

Yes, yes it would. Hopefully with better capitalization, though.

OK then. *madface*

*ahem* A girl that I like has just broken up with her Boyfriend and I want to 'move in' could the Playground please assist me?

[Trog]

*brings in two wheeled dolly, cardboard boxes, and packing tape*

The rest you do yourself. Trog doesn't do heavy lifting.

*heads outside to 'supervise.'*

[Dean Fellithor]

*brings in two wheeled dolly, cardboard boxes, and packing tape*

The rest you do yourself. Trog doesn't do heavy listing.

*heads outside to 'supervise.'*

*goes to watch Mcgyvar for inspiration.*

Ok, I've got gum, 2 empty Softdrink cans, 3 Bottles, a Deoderant Can, a Nail Clipper, a Computer Mouse (with a cord) and all the things Trog gave me...might wanna look through the shed...

* 2 Hours later *

*Comes back with a Home-made BB gun*

I'm going to hold her Prisoner in the Boxes until she develops Stockholm syndrome, WIN!


now back to serious buisness, what should I do?

[Skippy]

Honestly? Don't do anything. I know you like her, and now she's "available" (in lack of a better word), but it's not a good time. If you approach her now that she's vulnerable, probably it will work, but not for long. If you want something serious with her, then let her be. Give her a couple of months and then talk to her. Avoid bringing her ex to the conversation, and avoid pretend you're interested. You must learn to be patient if you want something good.

[Dean Fellithor]

Honestly? Don't do anything. I know you like her, and now she's "available" (in lack of a better word), but it's not a good time. If you approach her now that she's vulnerable, probably it will work, but not for long. If you want something serious with her, then let her be. Give her a couple of months and then talk to her. Avoid bringing her ex to the conversation, and avoid pretend you're interested. You must learn to be patient if you want something good.

She's doing fine though. O.o

[Syka]

If she seems to be ok, ask her out. Coffee or something, something not intimidating.

The whole "wait a few months" thing is really dependant on the person. I was asked out five days after my ex broke up with me, and accepted. It really depends on the person.

Cheers,
Syka

[Sir_Norbert]

The whole "wait a few months" thing is really dependant on the person. I was asked out five days after my ex broke up with me, and accepted. It really depends on the person.
It does depend on the person, but as a general guideline you should take into account how long-lasting / serious her previous relationship was. You can always try and make friends and then try to move on to something more serious later.

[Don Julio Anejo]

It does depend on the person, but as a general guideline you should take into account how long-lasting / serious her previous relationship was. You can always try and make friends and then try to move on to something more serious later.

I'm sorry, but no. If you become friends, there's pretty much no way you can move into something more serious later unless the girl in question develops a crush on you (unlikely). She won't want to lose you as a friend. It only works the other way - going from a relationship to being just friends.

But I agree on taking into account how serious her previous relationship is. And it does depend on the person. Last couple of breakups I was OK on the outside, the usual cheerful self. On the inside I was almost crying for at least a couple of weeks. Yeah, guys have feelings too :P

[Skippy]

I'm sorry, but no. If you become friends, there's pretty much no way you can move into something more serious later unless the girl in question develops a crush on you (unlikely). She won't want to lose you as a friend. It only works the other way - going from a relationship to being just friends.

Learned that the hard way. You should listen to him.

[Syka]

I'm sorry, but no. If you become friends, there's pretty much no way you can move into something more serious later unless the girl in question develops a crush on you (unlikely). She won't want to lose you as a friend. It only works the other way - going from a relationship to being just friends.

But I agree on taking into account how serious her previous relationship is. And it does depend on the person. Last couple of breakups I was OK on the outside, the usual cheerful self. On the inside I was almost crying for at least a couple of weeks. Yeah, guys have feelings too :P

Actually, either way (friend->relationship, relationship->friend) is difficult, at best. The guy I'm seeing now was kind of a friend, but we didn't know each other THAT well. I'd've definitely counted him as a friend, though. And I'm still friends (kind of) with one of my exes. Either way, it's a delicate balancing act. I've seen very few people successfully do it.

As for length, it also depends on the person. I forgot to mention- I'd been with my ex for nearly three and a half years when we broke up, had been planning to move to be near him, and marriage had been discussed a lot. But, I'm the type of person that deals with stuff by throwing myself into school and work and going out with friends. And yes, meeting new people is on the list. I had no intention of a relationship, but it did grow into that.

A lot of it depends on the approach. If he'd been like, "Do you want to go on a date with me?" I would have freaked. But instead he approached it as, "Want to go get coffee sometime?" I was able to slowly work my way into accepting it.

Cheers,
Syka

[Sir_Norbert]

I'm sorry, but no. If you become friends, there's pretty much no way you can move into something more serious later unless the girl in question develops a crush on you (unlikely). She won't want to lose you as a friend. It only works the other way - going from a relationship to being just friends.
Does this debate have to rear its ugly head again on every reincarnation of the RW&A thread? :P

And yes, it does happen. I would know.

[Skippy]

Does this debate have to rear its ugly head again on every reincarnation of the RW&A thread? :P

And yes, it does happen. I would know.

It is the destiny of Mankind. It cannot be helped.

[Quincunx]

Maybe if more of you bothered to befriend the opposite sex regardless of I-might-want-sex-later considerations, we'd have more opposite-sex friends than opposite-sex-wants-the-sex, and wouldn't have to defend them as though they were worth their weight in platinum pieces!

[Sir_Norbert]

Most of my friends are of the opposite sex. :smalltongue:

[Nightgaunt]

now back to serious buisness, what should I do?

I have a tendency to forget where I post and what I posted so I'll probably never reply again... But some key things to think on.


1) What was your relationship like? Have you been friends with this girl for years without ever asking her out (or months if you are young enough)? (What we like to call an "Orbiter") <There seems to be a time rule, the older you get the more time you have to be around before becoming an Orbiter. Or maybe it's just the Way you act that makes you one.... Someone call a sage>

2) Have you been pining away hoping to be with her the whole time she was with her boyfriend? <This is a bad sign usually>

3) Why is another girl not a suitable replacement for this one/ ie: What makes her so special? <Think about this, you haven't been in a relationship; make sure you have good reason to want to be with her. Many men fall in to the trap of not being around enough women, and pining after the few they know. Others fall in to the trap of "I can't have her, so now I want her", make sure you know your own heart.>

4) If you make a move and she rejects you what will happen next? <This one is key, try to be as honest as you can with yourself>

5) Have you done this before? <There is a girl I know who seems to ONLY date men she has known for years. Then she dumps one and picks up another orbiter. I guess it's safer dating for her, but I can't imagine what the guys are waiting for.>
---
Your answer about what to do should be in there. Like most people here who know other human beings I have seen this work, and I have seen it fail. One of my closest friends, and ex-roommates finally got together with a girl he was pining for for years after she broke up with her man. Now they are happily married and have two kids...

That is the exception.

[alchemyprime]

Man, last time I came here, I said "I hope next time I can Give advice instead of take it."

I'm here to take again.

My new girlfriend and I are happy together. We're going slow, but every fast relationship we had ever done went bad. We had dated once before, but she wasn't ready, and we have been best of friends between March of 2004 and August of 2007. Then we became a couple again.

My best friend, the other DM, doesn't like her, but he prefers to be non-interferent. He know's I've liked her for about forever, and so he has given us a "Knock Yourself Out, but Don't Do It In front of me" card. So he generally aproves.

it's been fun. She's training to be a DM. She almost has stat-blocks down. I plan on buying her the Core Books for her birthday.

But, about the end of September, something happened. A wall we are both trying to get over, but we don't know how. She's developed androphobia. An abnormal and irrational fear of men.

We still are together. We still love being near each other. But I can't touch her without her being paralysed like she was caught in a fear aura. It's become almost like the show "Pushing Daisies." Except no plastic wrap.
Other guys trigger it too, but I'm the guy that she definitely doesn't want it to trigger.

She's gotten better. And it's not as bad around me as with other guys. But the only three guys she can stand are her two gay friends and the guy who plays the cleric (but he's the traditional nerd with a bratty older sister, and about two years younger than the rest of the group. He wouldn't try anything.)

Has anyone else run into this androphobia before? Is there anyway to help her get over it without her becoming mentally damaged further. I just want my Kitten back in my arms!

[Syka]

No but...there is probably a reason there and if it's as bad as you say, she probably needs to see a psychiatrist/psychologist. I highly doubt you alone will help her, mainly because before fixing this I think you need to know the reason behind it.

Has this been since you started going out again, or did it happen afterwards? Does she even know when it happened? It could be something happened to her in the intervening time that she hasn't told anyone about.

Cheers,
Syka

[Don Julio Anejo]

No but...there is probably a reason there and if it's as bad as you say, she probably needs to see a psychiatrist/psychologist. I highly doubt you alone will help her, mainly because before fixing this I think you need to know the reason behind it.

Has this been since you started going out again, or did it happen afterwards? Does she even know when it happened? It could be something happened to her in the intervening time that she hasn't told anyone about.


I second seeing a professional therapist about it. It could be irrational, or it could be something she might not even want to tell you about, such as someone trying to rape her (it's just a wild guess, but it COULD be the cause of it).

[alchemyprime]

Well, firstly, this began in September, we we're going out since the begining of August.
Her mom thinks it was because of all of her male friends (besides me!) kicking her out of the office she held in a club. It was an almost unanimous vote from the men. I'm not a member of that club, so I wasn't there to stand up for her.
Either that, or the movie 3:10 to Yuma. And I'm serious about that. I've been afraid of cephalopods after watching a long oceanography special and then a version of 20000 Leagues Under The Sea.
She was fine the first month of our relationship. We held hands. The occasional peck on the cheek. And it started up about a week prior to my birthday.
Five days after the "Coup of Wayne".
Like I said, she's gotten better. From all accounts, she couldn't sit closer than two feet to any guy but me, and even talking to some other guy would set it off.
We've concidered psychologists. No psychiartrists. We're both against chemical dependancies, and we don't want a shrink telling her to pop pills and hope it gets all better. It's not like Vicodin for a car accident.
But she's been to therapy for other problems before. I know I'm just being paladin-y, but I can't stand thinking that I can't save her from everything.
Much less when sometimes I'm what she get afraid of.
It's okay if none of you have run into androphobia before. But any other phobias... any help at all. Thanks.

[Don Julio Anejo]

We've concidered psychologists. No psychiartrists. We're both against chemical dependancies, and we don't want a shrink telling her to pop pills and hope it gets all better. It's not like Vicodin for a car accident.
But she's been to therapy for other problems before. I know I'm just being paladin-y, but I can't stand thinking that I can't save her from everything.


+1 for not going to a psychiatrist. Their solution to all the problems: "You're afraid of men? Here, have a prozac."

It's okay that you can't help her. Sometimes people's problems are not on the surface, and even if they seem to be, there's often more to it than a single incident (such as the "voting off" the club). They can trigger other bad memories, the person can start thinking differently, etc. Heck, therapists go through something like 10+ years of training before they can even consider counselling people and even then a lot of the ones I talked to say they can't help everyone because they don't know what the problem is.

[Logic]

Most of my friends are of the opposite sex. :smalltongue:
While in highschool, that statement was true of me as well.

@alchemyprime: I am only repeating what the more sage of us advice givers have already said: She needs to see a professional about this. Suggest it to her, and see how she reacts to the idea. Inform her family and other friends (if they are not aware of it already) of the situation.

[alchemyprime]

Most of them know. We're just both apprehensive of seeing another professional. It's probably that my job at school is to keep professionals from having to get involved, to create a calm environment for students. (I'm a Peer Mediator, also called a Peer Buddy. Odd name. Nice teacher, though.)

She's been to therapists before and, while she likes the sessions, she doesn't feel comfortable when she returns to school while she's going. Makes her uncomfortable.

This coming from the same girl who got rid of my stutter and gave me most of my social skills. Talking to me was like talking to Porky Pig on crack before I met her. Maybe that's part of it.

I know a professional is the best way, but that can takes months or years. We're really seeing that as a last resort.

As for factors that that could trigger... I can think of the big one.
Her dad died when she was little. We know it's dang early for it to be planned, but we both know the first son needs to named after him.

Thanks for the help guys.

[Syka]

Well, firstly, this began in September, we we're going out since the begining of August.
Her mom thinks it was because of all of her male friends (besides me!) kicking her out of the office she held in a club. It was an almost unanimous vote from the men. I'm not a member of that club, so I wasn't there to stand up for her.
Either that, or the movie 3:10 to Yuma. And I'm serious about that. I've been afraid of cephalopods after watching a long oceanography special and then a version of 20000 Leagues Under The Sea.
She was fine the first month of our relationship. We held hands. The occasional peck on the cheek. And it started up about a week prior to my birthday.
Five days after the "Coup of Wayne".
Like I said, she's gotten better. From all accounts, she couldn't sit closer than two feet to any guy but me, and even talking to some other guy would set it off.
We've concidered psychologists. No psychiartrists. We're both against chemical dependancies, and we don't want a shrink telling her to pop pills and hope it gets all better. It's not like Vicodin for a car accident.
But she's been to therapy for other problems before. I know I'm just being paladin-y, but I can't stand thinking that I can't save her from everything.
Much less when sometimes I'm what she get afraid of.
It's okay if none of you have run into androphobia before. But any other phobias... any help at all. Thanks.


First, I cant emphasize enough, NOT ALL PSYCHOLOGIST PUSH DRUGS. This is something I think you need to see a professional about.

What about 3:10 to Yuma would set her off? I'm of the mind that something else happened...something as little as guys voting her out of a club or a movie usually aren't enough for a full fledges phobia. I think androphobia normally results from abuse of some sort by a male (physical, verbal, sexual.)

I could be wrong though. And you can always refuse to accept a doctors prescription if they try pushing drugs.

[Don Julio Anejo]

First, I cant emphasize enough, NOT ALL PSYCHOLOGIST PUSH DRUGS. This is something I think you need to see a professional about..........

........I could be wrong though. And you can always refuse to accept a doctors prescription if they try pushing drugs.

Syka, that's kinda the difference between psychology and psychiatry. Psychology is about dealing with the mind itself and the person's conscious and unconscious. Psychiatry is about dealing with biological processes that occur in the mind (e.g. neurology). Therefore the difference in their approach: psychology is about counselling, psychiatry is about drugs.


What about 3:10 to Yuma would set her off? I'm of the mind that something else happened...something as little as guys voting her out of a club or a movie usually aren't enough for a full fledges phobia. I think androphobia normally results from abuse of some sort by a male (physical, verbal, sexual.)
I doubt it's the incident itself, but it probably triggered memories of other things. However, we can't really do anything about it, since we don't know most of the facts (the girl in question is pretty much the only person who does).

PS: as for phobias: I had a really big problem with heights. Not really heights themselves, but ledges. For example if I ever had to go on a walkway, especially one with flimsy looking handrails, I would be almost on the floor. Didn't help that I was living in an apartment with a balcony with "fence" type handrails. I kinda got over it since I moved (to a place where there were no balconies) and didn't have to go to school with staircases that were separated something like 30 cm from the wall.

[Serpentine]

I'm sorry, but no. If you become friends, there's pretty much no way you can move into something more serious later unless the girl in question develops a crush on you (unlikely). She won't want to lose you as a friend. It only works the other way - going from a relationship to being just friends.
*ahem*
Bull. :smallmad:

I've gone over this in more detail elsewhere. I'll have another look for the specific post, but I have a feeling it's disappeared. To summarise, as far as I can tell it's little more than an excuse to make you feel better about someone not finding you attractive. Personally, I would find it deeply insuling if a friend of mine assumed this. The two guys I consider to have been my boyfriends (a couple of others don't count) were both friends of mine before we got together. There are one or two others who I would consider if I weren't already taken. As I said before, kindly do not project your insecurities and failings onto me/us. If she's not interested in that way, she's simply not interested and that's that. Whether or not you're friends has absolutely nothing to do with it, and it is entirely possible that her tastes may eventually change and if she's not interested now, she may be later. But that is absolutely not a good reason to stay friends with a person. Frankly, I'm inclined to think that if you like them so much that you can't handle "merely" being friends with them, then you don't like them enough and need to back off before you embitter the both of you.
Huh. So much for a summary...

>.>
<.<
Sorry Norbert v.v

[Raiser Blade]

I agree with Emperor Purpentine. :smalltongue:

I've had a few girls who were my friend develop crushes on me. If they like you in that way it's gonna happen whether your friends or not.


Edit: @V Yeesh! Don't take offense she wasn't attacking you personally.

[Don Julio Anejo]

*ahem*
Bull. :smallmad:

I've gone over this in more detail elsewhere. I'll have another look for the specific post, but I have a feeling it's disappeared. To summarise, as far as I can tell it's little more than an excuse to make you feel better about someone not finding you attractive. Personally, I would find it deeply insuling if a friend of mine assumed this. The two guys I consider to have been my boyfriends (a couple of others don't count) were both friends of mine before we got together. There are one or two others who I would consider if I weren't already taken. As I said before, kindly do not project your insecurities and failings onto me/us. If she's not interested in that way, she's simply not interested and that's that. Whether or not you're friends has absolutely nothing to do with it, and it is entirely possible that her tastes may eventually change and if she's not interested now, she may be later. But that is absolutely not a good reason to stay friends with a person. Frankly, I'm inclined to think that if you like them so much that you can't handle "merely" being friends with them, then you don't like them enough and need to back off before you embitter the both of you.
Huh. So much for a summary...

>.>
<.<
Sorry Norbert v.v
Please don't insult me. Also, if you want to psychoanalyze me based on your own personal experiences (omg for behaviourists), at least make sure you don't open yourself to counterattack. So you're accusing me of being insecure, because supposedly a friend of mine didn't go out with me because "she wanted to keep the friendship," while she didn't find me attractive. Well, I've never actually tried to go out with a female friend of mine (simply because I find it's a dumb idea... it'll take waaay too much effort to turn it into a relationship). I've had to do the opposite - turn down female friends of mine asking to go out on a date simply because I found them interesting people but I wanted to keep my distance (not because I found them unattractive. I never hit on people I find unattractive in the first place).

Also, I've had (well, we're still friends, just haven't really hung out in a while) two female friends (at different times but the same scenario applied)... We'd constantly flirt when we were together. Granted, we would do it around and with other people too, but we just drew lots of attention if we were in a group. Everyone thought we were (insert euphemism for relationship here). No we weren't. We just didn't want a relationship simply because it would spoil half the fun. And I only slept with one of them and once. And even then, it was after a party when we were both horny. And please don't try to give me the "female perspective" here - I know exactly what they were thinking.

As for you... what do you mean "considered them boyfriends." You either do or you don't. There's things in between (like friends with benefits), but I doubt they applied in your case. Unless it was something like the situation above...

As for my original post: If I write something, I try to be objective and not use my personal experiences. If I do, I write it in the post. It was based on my observation on.. well I can right now think of at least 12 "couples" that never got together because one party wanted to stay friends and not turn it into a relationship. I can only think of one where close friends started dating. Yeah, there's quite a few where people went from "barely knew each other" to "dating," but in this case I believe we were talking about being an "orbiter," which is usually a euphemism for a girl's "therapist," i.e. the guy who listens to a girl bitch about the guys she's dating while secretly crushing over her himself.

[Brickwall]

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

*cough*

I think you are both attacking the wrong issue. Don suggests that it is less likely for people to upgrade relationships from "friends" than it is from "acquaintances", and Serpentine says this is untrue. However, one must look at the reasoning behind Don's experience.

The people who try to "upgrade" the relationship may be looking for different signs in their friend than they would in an acquaintance, or perhaps not even looking for signs at all because they are already "close". This could theoretically inhibit one's ability to sense an attraction being mutual, thus causing the problems of "just friends".

Also, people have more acquaintances than they do close friends. Thus, they ask out more acquaintances than they do close friends. Thus, there are more successful acquaintance->relationship transitions than friendship->relationship transitions thanks to sheer numbers.

Can we agree on that (or something else not as radical as your points) so we might facilitate advising people in the situation?

The real problem is what happens after the question is popped. People will react differently, and ruining a good friendship not based on "orbiting" is a risk that we might want to find ways of dealing with.

We are supposed to be advisors here, after all.

Except me. I just like to stir things up and make observations. It's fuuuun. :smallamused:

[Serpentine]

Oh! Sorry Don, I know it wasn't clear, but the "you" was a general "you", not specifically you, you. Sorry about that. I was talking more about the attitude in general. So I wasn't attempting to "psychoanalyze you based on my own experiences", I was merely offering my own experiences as an example of where this is entirely wrong. What I hate is when guys (and girls?) attribute a friend's lack of interest in them to the "friend bin", which is what, I believe, you were doing. As for the people who "never got together because one party wanted to stay friends and not turn it into a relationship", I think the key thing there is that one party didn't want to turn it into a relationship. It's as simple as that. If someone doesn't like you (figurative "you") in that way, it's because they just don't like you in that way, not specifically because you happen to be friends.
Regarding the "considered boyfriends", there were a couple of people I dated, messed around with or agreed to go out with, but I don't think any of those count as boyfriends. One guy in particular, I suppose, was technically "boyfriend", but meh.

edit:
Don suggests that it is less likely for people to upgrade relationships from "friends" than it is from "acquaintances", and Serpentine says this is untrue.
I just want to point out that his words were "pretty much no way", not "less likely".

[Technatrix]

I'd have to disagree that it takes too much work to go from friendship to relationship or that it's not worth the effort. The two serious relationships I've had thus far were both with people who I had been friends with since kindergarten. It was much easier to be in a relationship with them because we already knew we liked each other it was just a matter of deciding if we liked each other "like that", and really all that took was a few dates and some expiremental handholding/smooching/whatnot. Even though in both instances we decided to go different directions in life after a time, they were amiable breakups and I'm still good friends with both of them. On the other hand, you both have to be more mature about the relationship and very secure in your pre-relationship friendship for that to work, I think.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Sorry about the mess guys... I kinda exaggerated (I tend to do that a lot if you haven't noticed) when I said "there's pretty much no way," when as Brickwall pointed out I meant "it's less likely." And Brickwall was right in his post - I meant exactly what he said.

Serpentine, sorry for taking your post personally.

And everyone else, I apologize in advance if I inadvertently overexaggerate something.

Technatrix: as far as friends, I was talking about fairly close friends you've known maybe a year or two, usually spend time with, but who aren't just random acquaintances you say hi to or close friends you've known since kindergarten. And unfortunately, I have no really close female friends I've known for a while (one of my best friends is a girl but I've only known her for about a year). Mostly because I moved around a lot and lived in 3 different countries. So I can't really comment on your experience (even though I've seen friends like that get together, to me it kinda seemed like "best friends who smooch.")

[Serpentine]

That's okay, it was pretty ambiguous and I can certainly see that it could be very offensive if directed at a specific person rather than a viewpoint.

[Dean Fellithor]

I have some Crushes on some people...

1) the Girl previously mentioned in this Thread.
2) My best Friends sister. <.<I am so Killed.>.>
3) A girl I've gotten along with since my Home Economics class last year.
I was forced into Home Economics.

I feel dirty for wanting 3 Women...

[Serpentine]

Is this a woe? If it's just crushes, well... you know. Other thread.
Also, there is nothing wrong with doing home ec. It's shameful how many people just out of home can't do basic cooking >.<

[Dean Fellithor]

Is this a woe? If it's just crushes, well... you know. Other thread.
Also, there is nothing wrong with doing home ec. It's shameful how many people just out of home can't do basic cooking >.<

But I still cant cook!

and the Woe is that I like more than 1 woman.

[Serpentine]

Then you should stop paying so much attention to your lady friend :smallamused:

[Micate]

It's shameful how many people just out of home can't do basic cooking >.<

*raises hand in shame*
:smallfrown:

[Kalessin]

Please help me out here.

The story so far is that last night our grade (in school) had a party. Thanks to our school's system (male and female classes separately) most of the boys and girls don't interact with each other. Of course, when we had the party we drank. Some heavily, some less. So most of us were drunk. Enough with the backstory.
So, when I walked around the house, quite drunk, looking for some gin, I ran into this girl. We barely have spoken before, but I have had/have a crush on her (I had confusing feelings towards her. Not that my feelings are any clearer now. Anyways she crashes onto me (also, obviously drunk), hugging and clinging onto me. After a few minutes she lets go and says that I am cute. So, I surprised, we part our ways. After about an half an hour (I still haven't found any gin) I go out on the porch for a smoke, she sits there with a few of her friends and invites me over. So we talk a bit, and after a while we sort of... make out? snuggle? We talk, *insert verb describing physical closeness here*, make impromptu poems, the usual stuff for drunk and mad people, for the rest of the night. Anyways, having had feelings for her before, they grow and become even more complicated. I hope that you get what I am writing, I realize it's not very good.
But yeah, the morning after the party, we (hangovers, both) first avoid each other, last I speak to her that I have feelings towards her (not that I told it to her last night, but considering her condition, and mine, I thought it would be better to repeat it), she just sighs (not a bored sigh, just a sad one) and asks if I was all right. I answer "Define all right." she just sighs again and goes away. That was today morning.
What I want from you people is just general advice. And what does she mean by "all right"? That everything should go on as nothing ever happened. Or that all we had should be as is? Please help me.