So quick little question about Artificers extra attack and a change too it.

[Throne12]

What do yall think if. The artificers extra attack was taking away and replaced with something like this.

When you damage a creature with a artificer cantrip you can make another attack on the same creature with the same cantrip.

Now its poorly worded sorry. But it boils down to this. If you attack with a damaging artificer cantrip you can doing it again on the same target.

It has to be a artificer cantrip.
It has to be a damaging cantrip it can be a save or attack roll.
The second casting must be the same cantrip you casted first.
It must be on the same monster you attacked with the first one. It doesn't matter if the first attack hit or missed.

[Ventruenox]

So, free infinite uses of the Sorcerer's Quicken on cantrips every round?

[Sigreid]

Because of the way cantrips scale with level it would get out of hand pretty much immediately. I.E. at level 5 (which is what I assume the extra attack comes online without looking) you would have 2 2d12 firebolts just as an example.

[clash]

2d10 firebolts to be entirely correct. It would scale at about the same rate as warlock eb with ab. 1d10+5 is roughly equal to 2d10 so double both of those at level 5. That is to say it is equal to the most damaging cantrip option in the game but nothing really broken

[Galithar]

Extra balance could be to make the second cantrip cat at one tier lower.

So level 5 you get your 2d10 firebolt, and a 1d10 firebolt. That lets Warlocks keep their shtick as the best cantrip user, but gives the artificer a little more bang for their buck. The difference between the artificer and Warlock would lessen at the higher tiers as well allowing the Artificer to not feel overly outclassed by their damage potential.

Also note that I haven't actually looked at the Artificer do they may have other powers that make this still to much on the frame even weakening it slightly.

[Sigreid]

2d10 firebolts to be entirely correct. It would scale at about the same rate as warlock eb with ab. 1d10+5 is roughly equal to 2d10 so double both of those at level 5. That is to say it is equal to the most damaging cantrip option in the game but nothing really broken

Not sure why I was thinking 1d12. Ah well, it's late for me where I am.

[Throne12]

Firebolt 1d10

Level1 with modifier +3
Fighter greatsword 2d6+3= 11
Fighter longsword 1d8+3= 8
Artificer firebolt 1d10=6

Level 5 modifier +4 (1 extra attack )
Fighter greatsword 2d6+4= 12+12=24
Fighter longsword 1d8+4= 9+9=16
Artificer firebolt 2d10= 12+12=24

Level 11 modifier +5 (2 extra attacks for fighter)
Fighter greatsword 2d6+5=13+13+13=39
Fighter longsword 1d8+5= 10+10+10=30
Artificer firebolt 3d10=18+18=36

Level 29 modifier+5 (3 extra attacks for fighter)
Fighter greatsword 2d6+5=13+13+13+13=52
Fighter longsword 1d8+5=10+10+10+10=40
Artificer firebolt 4d10=24+24=48

Using 5e average take half the number add 1. This is just raw damage out put. Fighter gets 2 action surges and other things to stack damage on like Superiority dice, feat, spells, magic weapons.
Where the artificer could use a war mage wand of +3 given a huge bonus of +6 total. Or if alchemist add int to acid giving a extra 10 total.

So I see no problem if you just limit it artificer cantrips and no other. Yes only other class that can do to cantrip is sorcerer. But hey it not stealing all it meta magic. It just barrowing a concept.

[Galithar]

Your numbers are off a little, but the concept is the same.

2d6+4 averages to 11 damage
2d10 averages to 11 as well though.

8d10, or 44 is the Artificer double firebolt in tier 4
The fighter would be at 2d6+5*3 or 36 damage.
That's at level 17. At level 20 the fighter gets to bump up to 48. And will also probably be rocking GWM and a magic weapon for additional damage so it seems okay to me still.

Just make sure if you do this change that the Artificer can't find a way to stack additional effects into those cantrips.

[Tetrasodium]

What do yall think if. The artificers extra attack was taking away and replaced with something like this.

When you damage a creature with a artificer cantrip you can make another attack on the same creature with the same cantrip.

Now its poorly worded sorry. But it boils down to this. If you attack with a damaging artificer cantrip you can doing it again on the same target.

It has to be a artificer cantrip.
It has to be a damaging cantrip it can be a save or attack roll.
The second casting must be the same cantrip you casted first.
It must be on the same monster you attacked with the first one. It doesn't matter if the first attack hit or missed.


Others have gone over the math & it looks reasonable on that front. I think that it fits very well with artificer, much better than extra attack.

[clash]

The only issue I see is that the math changes a bit when you add the turret or the humunculous from the subclasses. Each of these offers another damaging option that stacks on top of this.