PDA

View Full Version : Playing a high-rolled character.



Woland
2007-09-29, 01:35 PM
Okay, so recently I rolled a new character, and got extremely lucky. I rolled 18, 16, 18, 17, 17, 18.



...Yeah.

So, I'm wondering, how the hell should I play this character? Whatever I choose to put stats into, he'll be incredible at everything.

I don't want to play an uber-mensch, as in an annoyingly perfect person, and I don't want to disrespect RP guidelines by making him normal and flawed in the general areas except for the fact that he exceeds in every situation dice-wise. I could make him a guy who's just been through an exceptionally interesting and tough life and ultimately come out on top with a whole lot of strengths, but he's level one.

Anyone have any ideas? I'm sort of coming up with a blank.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-29, 01:38 PM
You don't need a good backstory as to why he is awesome. People come in different packages.

For example, those roles look they could suit me well, where maybe not so much with the average person. :smallbiggrin:

But seriously, maybe he was just naturally smart, hard-working, and worked out a lot.

tahu88810
2007-09-29, 01:39 PM
weeeeellllll....

He could be a paladin, who sees he incredible gifts as proof from his god that he must help the world by fighting back evil.

RMS Oceanic
2007-09-29, 01:42 PM
Try having some internal insecurity. Something happened in his past, either to him or a friend/family member, because they weren't adequately skilled at something, and he's determined not to repeat the experience. Or maybe his natural gifts, and the ensuing ego developed by heaped praise, caused him to do something arrogant and dangerous, with disasterous consequences, and he's now exceedingly careful. I think it's interesting playing a talented person with no confidence in himself.

Out of curiosity, what did you plan to play? It's safe to say you could pretty much play anything with those rolls.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-09-29, 01:51 PM
If there was ever a great time to play a monk, this is it. :P

But since nobody wants to play a monk, and only a raving madman would waste an awesome roll like that on one, probably play a Clericzilla. Or a Wizard. Strength for touch-attacks, dex for ranged-touch attacks, con to boost your pathetic d4 hp, int. for (obvious) and skill points (knowledge: everything). Wisdom and Charisma aren't strictly necessary, but everyone likes boosts to their Diplomacy, Spot, and Listen (especially when they're not class skills).

Rex Blunder
2007-09-29, 01:52 PM
It would be a sad waste not to play a MAD class, though. Now's your best chance ever.

malcolm
2007-09-29, 01:56 PM
Monk monk monk monk. That way you are guaranteed not to be uber-powerful.

brian c
2007-09-29, 01:58 PM
You have the stats to play a very good Monk, if you so wish. 18s for Str, Dex and Wis, 16 Int. You have good skillpoints, and good attack/damage due to your strength. Could be a nice grappler.

Also, with rolls this terrific, consider taking a race with ability adjustments. A Dwarf with 20 Con, and still 14/15 Cha? How about an elf with 16 Con and 20 dex? Or a half-orc with 20 str, 15/16 cha and int?

JackMage666
2007-09-29, 02:03 PM
Be a Monky!

Or a Favored Soul!

Or something else that has high MAD, but I can't think of right now.

RMS Oceanic
2007-09-29, 02:06 PM
Alternatively, convince your DM to run a gestalt game. Again, you pretty much have the stats to run any combo without running into MAD problems.

goat
2007-09-29, 02:42 PM
I'd be a Kobold Paladin of Freedom. 14 str, 18 dex, 16 con, 17 int and wis and 18 charisma.

Born bigger, sturdier and faster than most Kobolds, since an early age you've questioned everything you were told. Eventually your tribe threw you out for disrespecting the elders and the general fear and distrust of you they've had since your youth. You now travel the world, worshipping (whichever god fits, no books here), questing against those who are content to sit in the evil of ignorance, or force others to do the same; destroying the undead that question nothing at all.

Wearing your breastplate (soon upgraded to mithril to allow your greater dex bonus to work to full effect), carrying your lance, longsword and shield, you travel on your noble steed (probably some sort of pony, but for maximum effect some sort of giant lizard, maybe a gimped monitor lizard from the SRD) seeking out those who are kept from the truth, or constrained by overwhelming rule of law.

Nonah_Me
2007-09-29, 02:47 PM
I'd be a Kobold Paladin of Freedom. 14 str, 18 dex, 16 con, 17 int and wis and 18 charisma.

Born bigger, sturdier and faster than most Kobolds, since an early age you've questioned everything you were told. Eventually your tribe threw you out for disrespecting the elders and the general fear and distrust of you they've had since your youth. You now travel the world, worshipping (whichever god fits, no books here), questing against those who are content to sit in the evil of ignorance, or force others to do the same; destroying the undead that question nothing at all.

Wearing your breastplate (soon upgraded to mithril to allow your greater dex bonus to work to full effect), carrying your lance, longsword and shield, you travel on your noble steed (probably some sort of pony, but for maximum effect some sort of giant lizard, maybe a gimped monitor lizard from the SRD) seeking out those who are kept from the truth, or constrained by overwhelming rule of law.

Bold is mine.

Anyway, why not use one of those velocirapter (spelling gah) things that the Talenta Plains haffies use in Ebberon? That would fit a Kobold perfectly.

The Mormegil
2007-09-29, 02:55 PM
Be a multiclassing PC.
"Best_Chance_Ever".

Also, I'd see a good gish character.

OR, if you want to do something really stupid, find a way of taking all the possible ways to stack ability bonuses on melee damage and hits (I think there is a way. Probably needs Swordsage/Swashbuckler/Paladin/Bard or so...)

Skyserpent
2007-09-29, 02:57 PM
Captain America.

Give that a shot.

Solo
2007-09-29, 03:05 PM
Captain America.

Give that a shot.

So paladin it is, then?

Woland
2007-09-29, 03:08 PM
I was thinking about possibly warlock. My DM has helped the class out quite a bit, integrating Hellfire Warlock into the base class, making hideous blow an at-will damage addition to melee attacks (if the attack doesn't hit, neither does the blast damage), making eldritch blast a no-SR ability, just pure damage on a touch attack, and making the warlock heal one point of con damage per round (he outlawed using binder and soulmeld and made all hellfire con damage 2 instead of 1).

You've all given me some pretty good ideas for the guy's personality. I think I'm going to make him something of an intellectual with large ambitions and a humorous but very survivalist outlook on life. Therefore he'll be a sort of man who weighs absolutely everything on a scale of his own survival, but won't really have any biases or predispositions towards anything, reasoning that all actions are ultimately some form of self-preservation, which he can respect and relate to. Sort of a post-disillusionment. I'm going to play him as a very manipulative character, but not necessarily in a destructive way - more in the sense that like everything else, he sees human interaction as a tool for yielding the best results.

I'm making him human and true neutral. He's going to be thoroughly invested in making himself stronger, wiser, smarter etc, constantly looking for more ways in which to improve himself, including, and strongly so, attaining immortality (eternal life, not godhood).

In terms of his class, I'll reason it that as a warlock he's trying to better understand and utilize the power of eldritch proto-magic, attempting to expand the knowledge of primal, pre-arcane forces to the point where an improved version of modern-day magic can be created.

That's the gist of what I've come up with so far. How is it?

Solo
2007-09-29, 03:11 PM
I'd go for regular warlock, multiclassing into cleric, then prestige classing into Eldritch Disciple.


Warlock 1/ Cleric 3/ ED 10.

You get to convert your EB into healing power, and cleric spells with warlock powers to back them up.

You effectively sacrifice one level of cleric for a ton of kick ass, and you can do it too, with your stats.

Go

Str: 18
Dex: 17
Con: 18
Int: 16
Wis: 18
Cha: 17

Woland
2007-09-29, 03:34 PM
I don't know much about the eldritch disciple, but I'm not sure I want to go into the divine.

What's wrong with going straight warlock with the modifications I listed?

Draz74
2007-09-29, 03:43 PM
Remember that not everything about personality is represented by your stats. There are plenty of flaws you can have that don't have anything to do with these six abilities. (Sounds like you've already thought of some -- good job.)

Maybe look at some heroes in literature that have high scores in all areas as models. Batman comes to mind. Yet he's still a complex character.

I second what other people are saying about taking the opportunity to play a MAD class. Favored Soul would be great. ("What? A Favored Soul that actually has a decent number of skill points???") Ninja isn't my favorite, but would also be able to take advantage of all six scores.

You're free to do a warlock, but warlock actually strikes me as the type that "can get by without ANY high scores" rather than "can use (and almost needs) a lot of high scores."

Azerian Kelimon
2007-09-29, 04:07 PM
I actually have used such a char with high stats (2 18's, 4 16's) as my flagship and only char for a long while. And, checking my splatbook collection, I see there's two, mebbe a few more choices that fit such a char.

1) Mystic theurge. Master of all magic, Lord of the Weave, Mystra's beloved if you tackle FR, whatever it is, such a char will annihilate everything if you get two things that boost caster level, so you get 9th level spells.

2) A Martial adept, and a swordsage maybe. I chose this route, meself, and it's freakin' amazing. Right now, my character is a swordsage, master of the nine reworked, battle scion, warblade, and crusader (I'm epic, mind you. Level 97. He'll carry on to 4th ed. one way or another), who wields two legendary legacy weps, a longsword on his good hand called Direshef (pronounced di-reshef), and a katana named Mino-Kon-Tay on his left hand. And being able to be a war and battle god is cooooooool. And he's planning on taking certain PrC levels, so that by level 100, he'll be a perfect human....

3) Paragon. Take Paragon levels, which will fit RP wise. They might not be so good gamewise, possibly, but your char is almost screaming for them. And heck.... a +2 stat bonus is always nice.

Kaelik
2007-09-29, 04:15 PM
I second the using every stat system. I'm not sure what level you are starting at, but you could go:

Swashbuckler 3/Cleric 1/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Swordsage X. Grab Divine Might as a feat, obviously Shadow Blade. Probably go TWF with this much Precision.

Str 16
Dex 18
Con 17
Int 18
Wis 18
Cha 17

Go Human for the Feat. Pick up, Adaptive Style/Shadow Blade/Divine Might/TWF tree. Probably make a point to get some Tiger Claw maneuvers. Point in Charisma.

That's at level 7 (One level behind on iterative attacks)

+8/+8/+3 for 1d6+11/1d6+9/1d6+11
+4 to all if you expend one of your 7 Turn attempts.
+4 to any attacks you get if using a Tiger Claw Strike.
+Whatever the strike gives you.

de-trick
2007-09-29, 04:16 PM
nice want to trade rolls, but what ever you play you should be good

comes to mind a duskblade, paladin, ranger, monk, cleric, druid, or any multiclass

Foxer
2007-09-29, 04:22 PM
Wow, that's an embarrassment of riches - if only we could all have problems like this!

Playing a non-human will give the stats more variety, as has already been said, and working with that throws up a couple of ideas. Perhaps a half-orc con-artist? Few of his marks would expect him to possess the level of intelligence this guy boasts, and playing somebody who is actually a lot smarter than he lets on might be a laugh. Or, in a light-hearted game, a fish-out-of-water type whose talents let him shine in a field his species doesn't normally dabble in: a gnoll philosopher, an elf prize-fighter or a dwarf gentleman thief.

As for how you play any character this talented, well, there are problems. You might quickly get bored of playing Mister Perfect, and the rest of the party might feel like it really isn't worth turning up - with stats like this he is a party, all by himself. Obviously you can go down the Captain America "too good to be true" route, but if you don't want to be playing some sort of paragon you might try one of the following:

The Innocent Abroad

Despite his vast natural talent, our boy is woefully naive (and perhaps very young) and simply doesn't realise that "normal" people don't have his abilities. A character like this won't be shining everyone's face in just how wonderful he is, which will prevent the rest of the party lynching him, and, more importantly, his naivety means that he needs them around; despite his natural advantages he lacks the edges of experience and cynicism older characters have.

The Dilettante

Aware of his superior qualities from an early age, this character has sailed through life (up 'till first level) without ever having to extend himself. He has picked up a lot of skills simply by virtue of his superb intellect, but he has never bothered to master any of them, and he remains a dabbler. He has serious problems with stick-to-it-ness, and struggles to deal with long-term problems. As a chronic underachiever, this guy is a very capable character in many fields, but won't outshine the party specialists.

The Ne'er-do-Well

Most people learn right from wrong through a simple process of doing wrong, getting caught, and taking the consequences. This prodigy didn't, simply because his natural talent allowed him to do wrong and get away with it... up till now. He's got unsecured debts, abandoned lovers pursuing him for child support, no job and an increasingly negative reputation in his home town as a cheat, a liar and a wastrel. A life of adventuring beckons, but running away from your problems never solved anything and - worse - he still hasn't learned his lesson. This overconfident rogue may be amazingly talented, but he isn't indestructible. He persists in biting off more than he can chew (fun in a political or city campaign), and he really needs the rest of the party around to bail him out when he over-commits. They in turn put up with his antics simply because - when they can keep him pointed in the right direction - he really is almost as good as he thinks he is.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-09-29, 04:54 PM
Or, you can play the shadow that works from behind. DMG describes a high wisdom, low cha char as someone who works as the power behind the throne instead of taking leadership, but this is a gross mistake. ALL sources about ideas for rising and keeping power coincide "attracting TOO much attention is bad. Use a cat's paw.". This char knows instinctively that he will mark the aeons, but prefers not to bring misfortune upon him and his loved ones with attention (Spiderman, anyone?), thus he will be unnoticed until the critical moment arrives. This kind of char will in time be able to level and raise kingdoms with a flick of his hand, but will attribute that to lesser beings....that is, until he can do as Pink Floyd says: Shine On, You Crazy Diamond, the big moment to reveal the plot.

But really, unless you play artificer, you'll likely do fine. And if you DO go swordsage, a word of advice: CRAVE Shadow Hand's Step Of The Dancing Moth (or something similar). That stance will allow you to airwalk, essentially meaning that you'll be able to immunize yourself to most foes, and make things harder for others (Tarrasque, huh? *uses Step to fly up above the Tarrasque's reach, and attacks it with maneuvers till it drops*).

Mr.Bookworm
2007-09-29, 05:23 PM
Play a Monk.

No, seriously.

Those crazy scores pretty much beat the MAD problem, and the Monk has a lot of abilities that fit in with the survivalist theme.

He can talk with everything, becomes immune to aging effects, is immune to all diseases, etc., etc. at higher levels.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-09-29, 05:29 PM
One scroll of immortality and any wiz worth his salt that can cast permanence negates those advantages. Houserule Gauntlets as unarmed strikes that can be enchanted and a monk actually becomes useful. Houserule that Kensai has full BAB progression and the Monk actually becomes middle tier, or top tier. If you houserule they get all the TWF free, he goes top tier, and is actually a truly monkish monk. That is, he lives up to the class description.

Crow
2007-09-29, 05:59 PM
You don't need a good backstory as to why he is awesome. People come in different packages.

For example, those roles look they could suit me well, where maybe not so much with the average person. :smallbiggrin:

But seriously, maybe he was just naturally smart, hard-working, and worked out a lot.

You're telling me you can lift 230lbs over your head, and deadlift 460lbs...ok.

With a STR of 16 you could though...

Woland
2007-09-29, 06:08 PM
The class ideas all sound good, I'll keep them in mind and make my decision later.

Switching gears a bit though, with the house rules for warlock I mentioned, does it seem like it's worth possibly taking to 20? I kind of want to do something like that, and if those improvements don't make it worthwhile I'd like to know so I can have my DM bump it up some more in other areas.

Guy_Whozevl
2007-09-29, 06:13 PM
One scroll of immortality and any wiz worth his salt that can cast permanence negates those advantages. Houserule Gauntlets as unarmed strikes that can be enchanted and a monk actually becomes useful. Houserule that Kensai has full BAB progression and the Monk actually becomes middle tier, or top tier. If you houserule they get all the TWF free, he goes top tier, and is actually a truly monkish monk. That is, he lives up to the class description.

You might as well houserule that monks can spiderclimb at will and always balance on any surface. You can't simply argue that "If I houseruled in X, Y, and Z for this class, it would be awesome!" That arguement can work for any class.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-09-29, 06:24 PM
Nice rolls if you went Favored Soul route and the Gifts of your Diety theme.

D8, Light and Medium (Mithril Full Plate) Armor without ASF, Simple weapons plus the dietie's, Good BAB, Best Saves, Some unusual but not overpowering specials, delayed spellcasting with limited known spells you can do a lot with the Spell Compendium.

Really nice with a PRC Paladin Variant for 3 Levels and only losing 1 level of spellcasting.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-09-29, 06:34 PM
Guy, by default, monk sucks. The inability to add enhancements, damage die, the mediocre BAB, et cetera make him suck. Those are nonbestial fixes, I could always make them capable of meteor strikes, iceshatter kicks, and so on and so forth, but that's simply cheesy.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-29, 06:58 PM
Hold on, what kind of MAD does the favoured soul have? Doesn't he only need WIS and CHA?

Woland
2007-09-29, 07:20 PM
I think I might just go ahead and slap the stats onto my warlock. I've been looking at other classes, but warlock (the house-ruled one) is the class that's appealing to me most right now. I realize I could do a favored soul, or cleric-something, but divine magic isn't really my thing.

Back to the warlock modifications though, do they make it worthwhile for taking to 20? And if not, what additions to the class (not multiclassing, just the class itself) would help?

Azerian Kelimon
2007-09-29, 07:27 PM
Insta-embettering addition: change the eldritch blast so that it gains power at a 3/4 progression. You end with a 15d6 eldritch blast, which does HALF passable damage. Second, create new invocations that don't suck as much. Third, add some kind of transformation ability (fiendish transformation, choose a demon, devil, or Yugoloth whose CR isn't higher than your level, you gain X benefits. Every four levels, pick a new trans). Fourth, play something else that donnae sucks so much. Warlock is one of the worst three classes. A paladin in light armor seems like a natural choice. He uses all his stats but INT on class features, and INT helps with skills.

Woland
2007-09-29, 08:55 PM
Well, a rogue has 10d6 sneak attack damage at level 20 and they do all right.

With hellfire warlock integrated into the base class, I can do 15d6 damage per blast. I can add melee damage to that with hideous blow, or make it chain or AoE with blast shapes, not to mention the status effects like nausea, blindness, stunning, and knockback.

It's very survivable (bonuses to saves, 20% evasion chance for ranged, three energy resistances 10 and one 20, 24-hour flight, at-will short teleport with major image, seeing in all darkness, dr5, fast healing, blindsense etc,) has some nifty tricks, and deals some pretty hefty damage.

Is it really that bad? (Especially with the added benefits I mentioned in my previous post)

Edit: I should probably mention some of the DM's other house rules as well. There are no 'save or you just plain die' spells or effects like implosion, quivering palm or the like; charm spells have been taken out; bluff, diplomacy, gather information and such are role-played, no dice involved, (except for intimidation in combat); everyone can use magic items though only arcane classes can use scrolls; and a lot of cheese spells like polymorph and such have been taken out. Those are some of the changes he made to prevent wildly imbalanced classes and situations.

Maybe that makes a difference in how powerful this house-ruled warlock is comparatively.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-09-29, 09:24 PM
The invocations suck ass period. They suck, suck, and suck some more, as if you had extra full attack suck actions. Also, your DM is VEEEEERY strict. However, if he hasn't disabled true strike, go swordsage, dip one level sorc, and abuse avalanche of blades. Or try the strategy suggested at the 32 attacks thread, courtesy of moi.

I REALLY wouldn't try warlock, for a reason: it has a low damage output. I mean, a FIGHTER of comparable level will do AT LEAST 15d6, and likely over the average of 20d6 with some optimization. Warlock's biggest use is to instill fear on everything susceptible to shatter, and to weaken enemies by sniping with eldritch blast while invisible before the big battle. They are very subpar, since they're basically a caster without spells, and whose biggest damage dealer at level 20 (or maybe higher) is the equivalent of a level 5 spell. I REALLY recommend you go swordsage, light armor pally, houseruled to embetterment monk, factotum, or somethin' like that. You'll rock house.

Woland
2007-09-29, 09:28 PM
Well, damn, guess I'll have to figure out more ways to buff warlock.

Suppose I'll also try some of your class suggestions. Thanks.

Crow
2007-09-29, 09:38 PM
Well, damn, guess I'll have to figure out more ways to buff warlock.

Suppose I'll also try some of your class suggestions. Thanks.

Don't listen too much to some of these guys. Play whatever sounds fun to you.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-09-29, 09:41 PM
Try to discuss the posibility of adding a high level class feature that allows you to bind an outsider's power to yours. That way, you can empower eldritch blast, mebbe getting it to do 20d6. Also, try not to take all of my bias seriously. Some things weren't such good ideas. Still, it might be nice to open your horizons, since from a pure calculator point, you might not like to do jack. I'd ask your DM for help on making the warlock comparable to a full attacking, power attacking fighter of his level. It's a nice guideline for a start.

Goff
2007-09-29, 09:44 PM
Hey, don't be put off the warlock, fun's fun. And the warlock is fun. It's as simple as that, if you want to play a dude who's got some fiendish history and blasts people with eldritch energy go for it. No point playing say a paladin because 'some guy on teh intarwebs' told you to it'll be better if what you want to play is a warlock. Just choose the class you think you'll have the most fun with, fun's the aim for playing dnd anyway right?

*Ninja'd

Alleine
2007-09-29, 09:47 PM
I want your DM, can I steal your DM? Please? That'd make my current Warlock a lot less worrisome to play, what with all the lost HP from Hellfire(I have a nice con, and each lost point brings my health down too much for comfort), and we just lost our cleric :(

Honestly, I wouldn't play a Warlock with amazing stats like those, they simply don't need all of them. What I can say, is that any class you choose you will excel at, I'm jealous. I'd so play a monk with scores like that.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-09-29, 09:52 PM
It's not about that. It's about numerical efficency. A warlock more or less is gooood at low levels, but at high levelsa wu jen will fare better than you. A WU JEN! it's a very sad thing, since even core classes are likely to end outmatching the warlock. BTW, the sorc & wiz thread has resurfaced. There, a strong point of WHY warlock is bad is explained: powerful effects win fights. If a single spell ends it all, the need for unlimited weaker effects become unnecessary. so, while your friendly cleric is dealing a gazillion damage on a full attack through buffs, a wiz is using his spells to wreck the enemies, and a meleer does 30dsomething with a full attack, the warlock says "I use my eldritch blast again.". He's the magical version of a featless fighter.

EDIT: also, to woland, why d'you wanna play a warlock? can I know?

Crow
2007-09-29, 09:53 PM
It's not about that. It's about numerical efficency. A warlock more or less is gooood at low levels, but at high levelsa wu jen will fare better than you. A WU JEN! it's a very sad thing, since even core classes are likely to end outmatching the warlock. BTW, the sorc & wiz thread has resurfaced. There, a strong point of WHY warlock is bad is explained: powerful effects win fights. If a single spell ends it all, the need for unlimited weaker effects become unnecessary. so, while your friendly cleric is dealing a gazillion damage on a full attack through buffs, a wiz is using his spells to wreck the enemies, and a meleer does 30dsomething with a full attack, the warlock says "I use my eldritch blast again.". He's the magical version of a featless fighter.

Whoop-di-doo. None of this matters if he is playing a class that he thinks is fun.

Goff
2007-09-29, 10:00 PM
Whoop-di-doo. None of this matters if he is playing a class that he thinks is fun.

If only more people would take a cue from you.

Seriously, what's the good of playing the class that's the most effective at dealing damage or controlling the battlefield if that's not what you wanted to play? Better to be less effective and happy with the 'cool' (or what have you) your character emanates than miserable despite dealing 40d6 damage per round.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-09-29, 10:02 PM
"How can it be fun? I'm the inverse of That damned crab! I can't take on CR 15 mobs!". Answers neatly. A non heavily homebrewed warlock is a problem, not a plus. Unless you give him greater or superior invisibility. Then, he can snipe enemies till he's found, and escape, which is nice.

Kaelik
2007-09-29, 10:33 PM
"How can it be fun? I'm the inverse of That damned crab! I can't take on CR 15 mobs!". Answers neatly. A non heavily homebrewed warlock is a problem, not a plus. Unless you give him greater or superior invisibility. Then, he can snipe enemies till he's found, and escape, which is nice.

Unless you actually try optimizing. In which case a Warlock can easily compare to most characters. But you, that requires looking at the whole class instead of just deciding that it sucks.

Try a Eldritch Disciple build for an excellent Warlock. Or a Glaive Lock. Or a Eldritch Disciple Glaive Lock for all kinds of pain.

TOAOMT
2007-09-29, 10:57 PM
FIGHTER! Seriously, here you have the rare chance to play the larger than life epic warrior and you're probably going to pass it up to be broken. You can finally be the strong, agile, cunning and handsome paragon of sword and sorcery fantasy that D&D rarely sees. COME ON!

ForzaFiori
2007-09-29, 11:12 PM
You're telling me you can lift 230lbs over your head, and deadlift 460lbs...ok.

With a STR of 16 you could though...

thats not that amazing a feet really.

a senior at my HS last year benched over 200 pounds, squatted 400 something, could shoulder press 300 something (maybe 400, i dont remember exactly), and could clean in the 200s or high 100s iirc. I could almost lift 200 lbs over my head (shoulder press) after weightlifting with football for just 1 year. The shoulder press is essintially a lift over head, and you can deadlift more than you squat usually, and he almost squatted a 460.

Crow
2007-09-29, 11:28 PM
thats not that amazing a feet really.

a senior at my HS last year benched over 200 pounds, squatted 400 something, could shoulder press 300 something (maybe 400, i dont remember exactly), and could clean in the 200s or high 100s iirc. I could almost lift 200 lbs over my head (shoulder press) after weightlifting with football for just 1 year. The shoulder press is essintially a lift over head, and you can deadlift more than you squat usually, and he almost squatted a 460.

Trust me, I know it's not all that amazing. It is uncommon though, even among people who work out religiously (Also, most people can jerk more than they can shoulder press, driving the total overhead even higher). A 200+ Bench press isn't all that uncommon though. Even my single-rep is around 300 and I only weigh 165-170. What's amazing is to think that random forum member #538 can have all his "real-life" stats that high.

For him to be like that would mean he is part Einstein, part Sigmund Frueid (incorrect spelling I know), part Cassanova, part Swarzanegger, part Circue du Soleil acrobat, and part Lance Armstrong.

I'm calling B-S.

Woland
2007-09-29, 11:42 PM
EDIT: also, to woland, why d'you wanna play a warlock? can I know?

I liked the idea of a character who's his own source of power, who's so in tune with magic that he can cast as much as he wants, whenever he wants. I also liked the idea of having a little controversy in my magic, having a questionable source of power. And along those lines, the idea of wielding dark forces against dark forces is always fun.

Plus, the mid-range BAB, light weapon proficiency and the defenses (DR, energy resistance, fast healing, light armor and such) was very appealing.

With hideous blow, it seemed the best combination of magic and melee I'd seen so far, without all the worry about how to balance caster levels, only getting up to a certain number of spells known and spells per day, etc.

Rogue 7
2007-09-30, 12:06 AM
"How can it be fun? I'm the inverse of That damned crab! I can't take on CR 15 mobs!". Answers neatly. A non heavily homebrewed warlock is a problem, not a plus. Unless you give him greater or superior invisibility. Then, he can snipe enemies till he's found, and escape, which is nice.

Maybe the player likes the concept of the class. I'm still not entirely sure what the description of a warlock is, but if they like it, why stop them? Combat is not the be-all-end all of a game. Maybe the character doesn't want to take on the Tarrasque and just laugh as he blasts it to bits. Maybe he wants to use some form of strategy other than blasting everything in sight.

Woland
2007-09-30, 12:31 AM
Anyway, back to buffing warlocks. Let's try making them too powerful, and then cutting back bit by bit.

First idea: you can take a full-round action and fire as many eldritch blasts as your BAB permits, essences and blast shapes included. Hideous blow is treated like a feat that just slaps eldritch blast damage onto every melee hit you make ever. Your charisma modifier adds to your eldritch blast damage. As with my previous post, no save or SR apply against it, it's simply touch attack/ranged touch attack damage. Does full damage to objects.

DR - doubled, now 10/-

Fast healing - Now a constant effect.

Combat Intimidation is a bonus feat.

At 20, your type changes to outsider.

Quicken spell-like ability can apply to anything you want, you can spontaneously choose how your three uses per day are spent, and the feat stacks with itself.

Weapon proficiency - warlocks are now proficient with the scythe

Invocations:

Flee the scene - you can choose to make a "freaking explosion" centered on the square you teleport from and to. It's a 10-foot burst, and deals 1d6/3 levels damage, max 6d6. It's now a mid-range spell.

Beshadowed Blast - blind now works for 1d4+1/4 caster level rounds.

Chilling tentacles - cold damage scales with level

Entropic warding - now a greater invocation. Miss chance changed to 50%, as per displacement.

Curse of despair - ranged touch attack

Devil's sight/see the unseen/voidsense - combined

Dark one's own luck - applies to all saves

Vitriolic blast - now untyped damage, 4d6 on following rounds, and further vitriolic blasts refresh the effect, stacking up to 12d6 extra damage.

Eldritch chain - retains full eldritch blast damage for each extra target.

Repelling blast - now pushes back 1d6+1/4 level squares.

How's that? I think that would constitute as overpowered. Now, let's whittle it down. I could use some feedback on the changes first though.

Draz74
2007-09-30, 01:00 AM
Hold on, what kind of MAD does the favoured soul have? Doesn't he only need WIS and CHA?

If he just wants to be a caster, then yes, a Favored Soul only needs Wisdom and Charisma. Oh, and a decent Constitution, just in case.

But if he wants to be a force in melee, he needs just as much Strength as a ClericZilla does, and Constitution becomes even more important.

And if he wants to be in combat at all, then he needs a better Dexterity than a Cleric needs, because he can't do heavy armor like a Cleric can. Favored Soul archers are also fun, making Dexterity even more important (optionally).

Intelligence doesn't get him much, just more skill points. Although arguably, a Favored Soul needs skills more than a Cleric does, because he won't know all the utility spells a Cleric knows. He might have to actually have a good Heal skill, for example, because he doesn't want to use up his Spells Known on Neutralize Poison and Remove Disease. (Although scrolls make this argument weaker than it would be otherwise.)

So a melee-friendly Favored Soul really could use high scores in all six abilities.

Kaelik
2007-09-30, 02:48 AM
*ridiculous list of improvements*

This is just silly. They don't need more DR, Perma fast Healing is just silly since it barely helps in combat but completely removes the need for healing magic. That's dumb.

All your Invocations changes alone make the class even more powerful when optimized. And the Hideous Blow ruling is just sickening. They already have that! It's called Eldritch Glaive.

Deepblue706
2007-09-30, 02:54 AM
Be a Monk / Sorcerer / Bard / Ur Priest / Sublime Chord / Abjurant Champion.

Miraqariftsky
2007-09-30, 04:58 AM
Methinks this comes down to either the Paladin or the Monk since both are classes that can do so much and yet need much in terms of stats to realize their fullest potential.

Dump stats if Paladin:
16 and 17 in Con and Dex

Dump stats if Monk:
16 and 17 in Cha and Int

The Duskblade
2007-09-30, 06:36 AM
Mabye it's just me but this just strikes me as Duskblade.

Strength:18 Damage output
Dex:17 armor and reflex. not to mention initiative.
Con: 18 do I really need to say more?
int: 18 spell casting. Possibly switch with Dex depending on other choices.
Wis: 17 Will saves are always handy.
Cha: 16 well it's kinda weak for a DuskBlade with no real social skills.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-30, 07:52 AM
What's amazing is to think that random forum member #538 can have all his "real-life" stats that high.

For him to be like that would mean he is part Einstein, part Sigmund Frueid (incorrect spelling I know), part Cassanova, part Swarzanegger, part Circue du Soleil acrobat, and part Lance Armstrong.

I'm calling B-S.

I would call BS on that too. It was a joke. :smallamused:

Anyways, my stats are in my sig, you can check them out if you want. However, I don't think my CON and DEX are that high. Whereas I think my WIS should have scored a little higher.

Didn't mean to cause such a big fuss.

Crow
2007-09-30, 08:04 AM
I would call BS on that too. It was a joke. :smallamused:

Anyways, my stats are in my sig, you can check them out if you want. However, I don't think my CON and DEX are that high. Whereas I think my WIS should have scored a little higher.

Didn't mean to cause such a big fuss.

It's no fuss, it's just hard to catch that when all you're reading is plain text.

That test gives you two CON points for not getting sick...I think it should ask if you work in an office environment :smalltongue: and factor that in to your "sick score".

The intelligence portion made me feel quite retarded.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-30, 08:08 AM
But if you've never gotten sick in your life before, that's got to mean something.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-09-30, 01:04 PM
I've read woland's mods, and some are nice, some are crazy. Adding 15d6 damage to EACH attack is brutal, you'll do more damage than a disintegrate. The others are kind neat, tho. If you wanna play a character who is hiw own source of power, one word: sorcerer. But not the crappy "common" sorcerer, but a homebrewed one. Basically, this one depends on his strength of will, and has the ability to cast any spell, both from divine and arcane, but if you overexert yourself over a limit of, say you CHA modifier + 1/2 of your sorc levels, you begin to take CON penalties, INT penalties, and finally die. Might work nicely, since the sorc becomes more useful, and you would be close to a warlock in your unneed of outer aid, while still being not so limited. You could even ask for the creation of feats that allow you to take wu jen magic, warmage magic, or warlock eldritch powers.

Woland
2007-09-30, 01:17 PM
I've read woland's mods, and some are nice, some are crazy. Adding 15d6 damage to EACH attack is brutal, you'll do more damage than a disintegrate. The others are kind neat, tho. If you wanna play a character who is hiw own source of power, one word: sorcerer. But not the crappy "common" sorcerer, but a homebrewed one. Basically, this one depends on his strength of will, and has the ability to cast any spell, both from divine and arcane, but if you overexert yourself over a limit of, say you CHA modifier + 1/2 of your sorc levels, you begin to take CON penalties, INT penalties, and finally die. Might work nicely, since the sorc becomes more useful, and you would be close to a warlock in your unneed of outer aid, while still being not so limited. You could even ask for the creation of feats that allow you to take wu jen magic, warmage magic, or warlock eldritch powers.

Well, the changes are supposed to be overpowered. I'd like to have them run down one by one and nerfed until the warlock is on par with other classes, not better, not worse.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-30, 01:49 PM
Well, 15d6 per attack, at level 20 you're hitting , reliably, 30 or 45 d6 (can't remember base attack bonus for warlock), each round, no saving throw. That's pretty good in my opinion. Also, no SR means unless you have crappy touch attacks (not likely), you're a bit overpowered.

Kaelik
2007-09-30, 01:56 PM
Well, 15d6 per attack, at level 20 you're hitting , reliably, 30 or 45 d6 (can't remember base attack bonus for warlock), each round, no saving throw. That's pretty good in my opinion. Also, no SR means unless you have crappy touch attacks (not likely), you're a bit overpowered.

That would be 45d6 at 20 with hideous blow or ELDRITCH GLAIVE. Of course with a Warlock that gets extra attacks based on BAB there is no reason on earth to not have a wand of Divine Power.

Woland
2007-09-30, 04:09 PM
Wait, a warlock can do 45d6 damage with eldritch glaive in its current incarnation (with hellfire warlock of course).

That seems like a fair amount of damage to me...

Of course, the warlock would lose 60 health with full hellfire.

So it would be somewhere between 27d6 and 45d6 in a round, assuming you can make a full attack and each attack hits (likely with a touch attack).

If we combined eldritch glaive and hideous blow so that they both used a weapon, took away the enemy's attack of opportunity for hideous blow and took away the reach for eldritch glaive, made it so that the attack had to hit normally, with armor, in order for the eldritch damage to hit as well, we could give the warlock 3d8+4.5*str (using spear) more potential damage if he was willing to put himself in melee attack range and have his hits less likely to succeed.