Here with her boyfriend....

[MonkeySage]

A few years back, I moved from Illinois back to my hometown in Arkansas, so that I could finish up my associates degree and start on my bachelors. On arrival, I knew very few people in my hometown that were my age- at least very few people that I had any interest whatsoever in talking to.

So starting college here, I spoke to a friend who knew a few people who might be interested in starting a D&D group. She introduced us, and soon enough we had our D&D group together.

Most of these people were new to d&d, and almost all of them were new to 3.5, so i was the DM- and this was my first "successful" campaign at that.

So, the group includes: Z and C (Brothers), I, B, J and V (boyfriend and girlfriend).

Now, I and the whole group knew J, while V was a new comer that J introduced to the group when we started.

V was an amazing player- she very often ended up leading the group on quests, while also taking detailed notes on each session (these notes even included the joke I made on our first session to break the ice). She was fun, smart, and from what I understand she actually had a bit of experience with both 2e and 3.5e.

J was the opposite- whiny, had a short attention span, forgetful, constantly falling asleep during sessions, and generally being disruptive. He was both entitled and manipulative. Very manipulative, often getting his way. I ended up making several concessions just to get him to stop whining and let the games continue. I should have kicked him out of the group, but I guess I didn't want to lose V as a player.

A couple examples of the concessions I made for him: I tweaked the drow race so that it would have a power level on par with normal elves- so that he could play a drow. I also gave him his fighting style feats at level 1 because he just could not wait till level 2 to get them.
To keep him awake, I'd buy him Red Bulls in addition to the Pepsi I got for the rest of the group (V and I instead going with sweet tea).

Well, the inevitable eventually happened. J called me one night and told me that V dumped him, and that either he or V were leaving the group. Like an idiot, instead of just saying "Nice knowing you" to him, I figured I'd try to work this out so neither had to leave. I called V, and she told me that she doesn't mind staying with the group, and that J being there won't cause any problems for her. I called J back, and he insisted that one of them had to go. Again, i should have just kicked out the problem player, and kept V on.

V decided that since the rest of the group only knew her in the first place because she was J's girlfriend, it was for the best that she leave to prevent any future conflict. Our most experienced player left because her ex boyfriend was a jerk.

J eventually left for other reasons... I regret not kicking him out sooner. :smallannoyed:

[Faily]

I can understand V's reasoning, being the newcomer and all to a group that already knew eachother.

But since J is gone, invite V to join the group now? Send a message with no mention of J and just say that you and the others would love to play with her again.

[MonkeySage]

Wish I could- that group eventually had to break up because our schedules were too incompatible. Lasted about a year after J left, and I strongly considered inviting V back.

Lesson learned though: If I have two players, a couple, in which one of them is awesome and one of them is a problem, and they break up... Problem player is gone. :smallsmile:

[Friv]

Well, the inevitable eventually happened. J called me one night and told me that V dumped him, and that either he or V were leaving the group. Like an idiot, instead of just saying "Nice knowing you" to him, I figured I'd try to work this out so neither had to leave. I called V, and she told me that she doesn't mind staying with the group, and that J being there won't cause any problems for her. I called J back, and he insisted that one of them had to go.

Yeah, that's definitely where I might feel the need for a creative misunderstanding. "Oh, okay man, I understand needing some time. But listen, if you ever want to come back, let me know. The door will be open."

Because frankly, if one person is saying, "Yeah, we can be polite adults at a game" and the other person is saying "NO YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE WHICH OF US IS YOUR FRIEND NOW" I know who I'm interested in.

(I mean, no lie, if I was in a breakup I would probably just take a break from the group, but I have generally speaking only had mature breakups.)

[halfeye]

Why is this a thread today, rather than at the time, whenever that was? Is it obliquely about Brexit (because that's current, confusing and stressful, and the timing of this seems confusing)?

[MonkeySage]

Cause I got into a conversation with a friend about it, and felt I'd get it off my chest here for y'all's amusement. :smallbiggrin:

[halfeye]

Cause I got into a conversation with a friend about it, and felt I'd get it off my chest here for y'all's amusement. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, that works.

[Man_Over_Game]

Sometimes confrontations suck. If something mattered, it wouldn't be easy.

It's a good lesson, though. Sometimes, it's better to make a decision than have it be made for you.

[MonkeySage]

Yeah, that's probably why I never just kicked him out: I'm kind of a passive person, I don't really like confrontation when I think it can be avoided. And up until other players in the group approached me and voiced their own opinions about this guy (that he's kind of a manipulative jerk and everyone in the group knows it), I mostly just put up with his crap. I'd get onto him about falling asleep, I'd concede to some of his less outlandish ideas when it came to his character, etc. I never just told him that his behavior was problematic and needed to stop.

It is kinda funny to me that we had a 16 year old in our group, C, and he acted more mature than J.

[Kaptin Keen]

Here's what I do: Never get involved. Not ever. Under absolutely any sort of circumstances (short perhaps of actual loss of life or limb), never, ever - ever - take sides. Just state flat out that 'my friends are all welcome at my table'. Non-negotiable under any circumstances.

Trust me on this. There really isn't any other way, and if you just make this rule clear, it never fails.

In this particular case, I suppose I'd have told J that: All my friends are welcome at my table. If you try to make any ultimatums ........ you're just excluding yourself. Sorry man - like I said, you're welcome at my table. But so are all my other friends. That includes V.

As you may be able to tell, I've been there before - and as a result of the above, I'm the only one who can still speak with all of my friends. They have all sorts of problems back and forth between each other. So when L is playing, R isn't, and when R is playing, A and T aren't. It's a mess - but it's not my mess.

[Vizzerdrix]

Sounds to me like you miss her. Good player/DM combos are hard to find.

[Quertus]

I tweaked the drow race so that it would have a power level on par with normal elves- so that he could play a drow. I also gave him his fighting style feats at level 1 because he just could not wait till level 2 to get them.


I mean, good job fixing the game?

Really, WotC should have built the game such that you could play the character you want - and have them feel like the character you want - from 1st level. So, yes, I agree that "Drow Ranger" should be a valid character, and, since you were apparently starting at 1st level (:smallyuk:), should be viable at 1st level.

[Rhedyn]

You had an easy out too, "well since you are making it an either/or thing, then you can leave".

I hate it when people don't do what's right because of they are trying to avoid conflict.

[King of Nowhere]

As you may be able to tell, I've been there before - and as a result of the above, I'm the only one who can still speak with all of my friends. They have all sorts of problems back and forth between each other. So when L is playing, R isn't, and when R is playing, A and T aren't. It's a mess - but it's not my mess.
You're not making your friends look good.

Anyway, back to the OP, I'm a passive person myself, but I can survive as a passive person by avoiding those who would abuse it. You want to force me to deal with crap, I'm staying away from you. In this case, I'd either kick or leave myself.

I've said it many times: I already have to deal with a bunch of immature troublemakers as a job (I'm a teacher). I don't have the time, patience or willingness to do it in my leisure time too.

[Kaptin Keen]

You're not making your friends look good.

... it is what it is. 6 guys who've known each other since age 16 - that's 30+ years - but in the last 5-6 years, the others have found various ways of deciding they now hate each other, and maybe always did. Fools.

[Sajiri]

Pretty much any situation where a couple breaks up, if one is being reasonable and the other insists one has to leave, I just pick the reasonable one.

It wasn't D&D, but I was good friends with a couple who broke up and we all played in a guild together in a mmo. The guy was happy to just leave her be, not be at events if she was there and didnt want him there, said she could block him if needed so she never had to see him talk. She insisted that he leave because these were her friends (we were friends with both of them). I told him he didn't have to leave, so she left in a huff.

[Psyren]

Here's what I do: Never get involved. Not ever. Under absolutely any sort of circumstances (short perhaps of actual loss of life or limb), never, ever - ever - take sides. Just state flat out that 'my friends are all welcome at my table'. Non-negotiable under any circumstances.

Trust me on this. There really isn't any other way, and if you just make this rule clear, it never fails.

In this particular case, I suppose I'd have told J that: All my friends are welcome at my table. If you try to make any ultimatums ........ you're just excluding yourself. Sorry man - like I said, you're welcome at my table. But so are all my other friends. That includes V.

Yeah, that. Either they grow up and get over it, or they don't and the drama pre-emptively eliminated itself. It's win-win.



I hate it when people don't do what's right because of they are trying to avoid conflict.

I couldn't put my figure on what about the opening post was irritating me but this comes close.

[King of Nowhere]

I hate it when people don't do what's right because of they are trying to avoid conflict.
or more like when people give in to a bully to avoid conflict.
sometimes you have to make concessions for the sake of keeping the peace, but giving in to a bully only encourages him, and it encourages others to do the same.