Straight Forge Cleric, EK multiclass, Magic Initiate, or other?

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Hey there!

I asked advice from this forum earlier on how to approach my Half-Orc Forge Cleric and the consensus seemed to be to get to at least level 5 before doing anything zany, since 5 is such a power bump for most classes. I did that and we just hit level 6, so I'm trying to decide my path a bit from here.

Half-Orc Forge Cleric: 17, 8, 16, 10, 17, 8. First feat I took was Resilient: Con for the save proficiency and to bump my CON from 15 to 16.

Current party is a Draconic Sorcerer (Red), Arcane Archer, Celestial Warlock (Pact of the Chain), Berserker Barbarian, and myself. My battle plan at the moment has been to charge straight in with the Barbarian and make a big meatshield wall for our squishy ranged people. I typically do the Spirit Guardians/Spiritual Weapon combo, followed by simple melee strikes with a Warhammer (DM gave me proficiency for free) or sacred flame. I think sacred flame has only ever done damage once. I've guiding bolted a time or two if the enemy was out of range, but typically I'm up in their face. Most of my other spells are out of combat utility.

We're at a point in the story where it would make sense for my character to rethink his choices a bit and branch into something else (BBEG insta-killed a party member via disintegration, obliterated an NPC we were fond of, and blasted a bunch of hostages we were trying to rescue into oblivion). Unfortunately, with my stats, my options for multiclassing are limited to Fighter, Barbarian, or Druid. Druid clashes with the Forge Domain's metalworking shtick and Barbarian clashes with the Forge Domain's heavy armor shtick as well as spellcasting, so that leaves Fighter.

Fighter is usually recommended as a multi class because of action surge and I was curious if it was worthwhile for me and what archetype would be best. I was also trying to finnagle a way to get booming blade so I could force the choice of staying in spirit guardians or taking thunder damage. My current thoughts were to go Forge Cleric X/EK 3, so I could grab booming blade, another cantrip, Absorb Element, Shield, and something else (probably find familiar). That multiclass might be best to do once I reach level 9 or so, though, in order to get the level 8 ASI for +1 str/wis and Animate Objects at 9. My other option was to take Magic Initiate for Booming Blade, another cantrip, and either Shield, Absorb Elements, or Find Familiar as a once a day spell. Both options end up costing me an ASI in the end, but the magic initiate route keeps me on track for spell progression at the cost of only having a once a day use spell.

Any thoughts? I'm trying to be a tanky protector and my character is the type to throw himself into the fray and the fact that he keeps losing people close to him is eating away at him (hence why it could be worthwhile to MC now). Should I abandon multiclassing and just go straight Forge Cleric? Does Booming Blade, Shield, or Absorb Elements add enough to be worth the trouble? Does Action Surge combo well enough with Cleric stuff to be worth the multclass? Should I throw myself on the mercy of the DM to lift the multiclassing restriction (a dip into Wizard seems like it could solve a lot). Help would be appreciated. I'm sure I'm just overthinking again.

[Bannan_mantis]

It depends really on what you wanna be more of, fighter's defence fighting style makes up for loosing the +1 AC bonus of soul of the forge but at the same time you have to consider if second wind and d10 hit dice make up for resistance to fire damage and bonus damage to constructs.

I'll admit the damage buff isn't all the big but at the same time the fire resistance is one of the best abilities the forge cleric gets behind it's AC bonuses. Once you actually consider how often people use fire spells you'll realise that it's really useful.

I'd go with fighter if you wanted to be more of a frontliner and didn't mind losing some spells which seems to be the case with your tanking strategies. EK is also really good on a cleric as it makes up for a lot of things clerics are kinda missing, i.e. boosts to martial abilities, wizard spells and a way to buff melee damage outside of divine strike (which is good but falls short when compared to other damage options)

I'd go with cleric if maybe the spells were more to your liking, while being a fighter is cool and all the cleric spell list is amazing considering you can boost your AC, have constant AOE damage, have bonus action healing or just deal pretty big damage with a few attacks.

So yeah, if you want to be more of a martial character then go with EK but if spellcasting is more your feel then go with pure cleric.

[ImproperJustice]

For what it’s worth my main is a level 12 Forge Cleric.
I would say hang in there, your about to get to the really good stuff:

Namely level 4 and 5 slots.

Wall of Fire suddenly gives a lot of area control and amazing damage output in narrow halls.
Animate Objects is worth the price of admission to the subclass, it’s fun and devastating all at the same time.

Fabricate and Creation can both be useful, and Fire Resistance with a +1 AC may not seem all that exciting but it comes into play often.

Then there are the standard Cleric Spells coming your way.
Commune is incredible. Teleportation Circle can potentially open up exploration in your game world.
Raise Dead, Greater Reatoration, etc make you an undeniable asset to the team.

Not to mention upcasting Aid, Spiritual Weapon, and Spirit Guardians.

Lastly, start stockpiling gold for the buff spell to end all buff spells with Heroes Feast.
That’s 24 hours of poison, disease, and fear immunity coupled with advantage on wisdom saves and a high powered aid effect which stacks with aid and temporary hit point effects.

Don’t knock it, high end Cleric fun is heading your way soon.

Also, your cantrip will start hitting people more as your Wisdom and Proficiency bonuses start to outscale your foes.

[CTurbo]

*IF* you want to be a more melee focused Cleric, 5-7 levels of EK Fighter would be great. Yes you give up some good Cleric stuff, but you gain a lot too. Extra Attack and War Magic would be great for you as well as having the Wizard spells not to mention all the great regular Fighter stuff.

If you don't care so much about weapon attacks, stick with pure Cleric all the way.

[Nhorianscum]

Hey there!

I asked advice from this forum earlier on how to approach my Half-Orc Forge Cleric and the consensus seemed to be to get to at least level 5 before doing anything zany, since 5 is such a power bump for most classes. I did that and we just hit level 6, so I'm trying to decide my path a bit from here.

Half-Orc Forge Cleric: 17, 8, 16, 10, 17, 8. First feat I took was Resilient: Con for the save proficiency and to bump my CON from 15 to 16.

Current party is a Draconic Sorcerer (Red), Arcane Archer, Celestial Warlock (Pact of the Chain), Berserker Barbarian, and myself. My battle plan at the moment has been to charge straight in with the Barbarian and make a big meatshield wall for our squishy ranged people. I typically do the Spirit Guardians/Spiritual Weapon combo, followed by simple melee strikes with a Warhammer (DM gave me proficiency for free) or sacred flame. I think sacred flame has only ever done damage once. I've guiding bolted a time or two if the enemy was out of range, but typically I'm up in their face. Most of my other spells are out of combat utility.

We're at a point in the story where it would make sense for my character to rethink his choices a bit and branch into something else (BBEG insta-killed a party member via disintegration, obliterated an NPC we were fond of, and blasted a bunch of hostages we were trying to rescue into oblivion). Unfortunately, with my stats, my options for multiclassing are limited to Fighter, Barbarian, or Druid. Druid clashes with the Forge Domain's metalworking shtick and Barbarian clashes with the Forge Domain's heavy armor shtick as well as spellcasting, so that leaves Fighter.

Fighter is usually recommended as a multi class because of action surge and I was curious if it was worthwhile for me and what archetype would be best. I was also trying to finnagle a way to get booming blade so I could force the choice of staying in spirit guardians or taking thunder damage. My current thoughts were to go Forge Cleric X/EK 3, so I could grab booming blade, another cantrip, Absorb Element, Shield, and something else (probably find familiar). That multiclass might be best to do once I reach level 9 or so, though, in order to get the level 8 ASI for +1 str/wis and Animate Objects at 9. My other option was to take Magic Initiate for Booming Blade, another cantrip, and either Shield, Absorb Elements, or Find Familiar as a once a day spell. Both options end up costing me an ASI in the end, but the magic initiate route keeps me on track for spell progression at the cost of only having a once a day use spell.

Any thoughts? I'm trying to be a tanky protector and my character is the type to throw himself into the fray and the fact that he keeps losing people close to him is eating away at him (hence why it could be worthwhile to MC now). Should I abandon multiclassing and just go straight Forge Cleric? Does Booming Blade, Shield, or Absorb Elements add enough to be worth the trouble? Does Action Surge combo well enough with Cleric stuff to be worth the multclass? Should I throw myself on the mercy of the DM to lift the multiclassing restriction (a dip into Wizard seems like it could solve a lot). Help would be appreciated. I'm sure I'm just overthinking again.

Forge to 9, EK to 3, straight forge from there is a decent option. Ek to 7 also works.

We're picking up 18 wis/str, 5th level casting (the peak of cleric casting tbh), divine strike, and our cl6 boon asap as our main priority though.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Forge to 9, EK to 3, straight forge from there is a decent option. Ek to 7 also works.

We're picking up 18 wis/str, 5th level casting (the peak of cleric casting tbh), divine strike, and our cl6 boon asap as our main priority though.

This is kind of what I was thinking. It makes sense story wise to think about multiclassing now, but it could be a work in progress as well (my character isn't very smart after all, it would take a bit for him to figure out arcane shenanigans).

I still wanted to be primarily a Cleric, I just find myself in melee so often without any real way to dissuade enemies from blitzing the backline. Figured picking up booming blade could at least dissuade them from moving by punishing them if they do. Between that and spirit guardians cutting into their movement, I feel like I'd be much stickier.

I think my main dilemma is the best between:

1) Forge Cleric 9 -> Eldritch Knight 3 -> Forge Cleric X in order to grab EK + Fighter goodies after I get Animate Objects, level 8 ASI, and my last domain spells?
2) Magic Initiate at level 8 (or level 12?) for Booming Blade to at least do that combo while keeping my Cleric stuff.
3) Forgetting all of that, go straight Forge Cleric, grab +1 STR/+1 WIS at level 8, Warcaster at level 12, then max WIS at level 16 and try to utilize non-concentration spells to keep my stickiness?

I like the idea of booming blade, but actually the more I think about it, the less appealing it is without Warcaster, and both option 1 and 2 delay that. Option 3 gets Warcaster, but would have to use some other sort of spell to capitalize on it (or just use a cantrip). I've had much better luck with melee attacks than save cantrips, though, is the issue, though that's probably just RNG.

Might be something I just have to revisit once I get to level 8 or so, when I'm trying to decide between a feat or evening out STR and WIS.

I guess the other road I could go is trying to appeal to the DM for a magic item of some sort that allows me to cast booming blade a few times a day with charges or something.


On a mildly related topic:

If I did end up with the Fighter Multiclass, what are some good Action Surge combinations? The only one I've thought up at the moment is a Beacon of Hope + Mass Cure Wounds panic button. Or double guiding bolts where I use the first one to set up advantage for a bigger second one? Or maybe some sort of Bestow Curse + Banishment thing or something? I'm having a hard time thinking of spell combos, though breaking the action economy in and of itself is pretty good regardless.

[Nhorianscum]

This is kind of what I was thinking. It makes sense story wise to think about multiclassing now, but it could be a work in progress as well (my character isn't very smart after all, it would take a bit for him to figure out arcane shenanigans).

I still wanted to be primarily a Cleric, I just find myself in melee so often without any real way to dissuade enemies from blitzing the backline. Figured picking up booming blade could at least dissuade them from moving by punishing them if they do. Between that and spirit guardians cutting into their movement, I feel like I'd be much stickier.

I think my main dilemma is the best between:

1) Forge Cleric 9 -> Eldritch Knight 3 -> Forge Cleric X in order to grab EK + Fighter goodies after I get Animate Objects, level 8 ASI, and my last domain spells?
2) Magic Initiate at level 8 (or level 12?) for Booming Blade to at least do that combo while keeping my Cleric stuff.
3) Forgetting all of that, go straight Forge Cleric, grab +1 STR/+1 WIS at level 8, Warcaster at level 12, then max WIS at level 16 and try to utilize non-concentration spells to keep my stickiness?

I like the idea of booming blade, but actually the more I think about it, the less appealing it is without Warcaster, and both option 1 and 2 delay that. Option 3 gets Warcaster, but would have to use some other sort of spell to capitalize on it (or just use a cantrip). I've had much better luck with melee attacks than save cantrips, though, is the issue, though that's probably just RNG.

Might be something I just have to revisit once I get to level 8 or so, when I'm trying to decide between a feat or evening out STR and WIS.

I guess the other road I could go is trying to appeal to the DM for a magic item of some sort that allows me to cast booming blade a few times a day with charges or something.


On a mildly related topic:

If I did end up with the Fighter Multiclass, what are some good Action Surge combinations? The only one I've thought up at the moment is a Beacon of Hope + Mass Cure Wounds panic button. Or double guiding bolts where I use the first one to set up advantage for a bigger second one? Or maybe some sort of Bestow Curse + Banishment thing or something? I'm having a hard time thinking of spell combos, though breaking the action economy in and of itself is pretty good regardless.

Forge 7 gives a wall spell, forge 9 gives us animate objects which, aside from being a great damage spell, is also able to make multiple hugenormous grapplebots.

As for AS combo's. The most obvious one is SG/Other area denial spell + Guardian of faith/Dodge action.

[SVamp]

Have you considered sentinel as a way to stop enemies from blitzing past you and keeping them in range of spirit guardians? Seems like something you and barb boy should have with that many squishies..

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Have you considered sentinel as a way to stop enemies from blitzing past you and keeping them in range of spirit guardians? Seems like something you and barb boy should have with that many squishies..

I did. Sentinel and Shield Master were a couple of feats I was batting around, but I hadn't quite settled on anything. In the big scheme of things, if I was going straight Cleric, the +1 STR/+1 WIS should be the first thing I grab to get 18 STR and 18 WIS, then at level 12 it would be between Sentinel, War Caster, or +2 WIS. If I went straight Cleric, it would be level 19 before I had everything and that's if I drop the idea of Magic Initiate. Not sure what our Barbarian grabbed for his level 4 (think he just increased STR), but his character is a bruiser for the setting's Thieves' Guild, so doesn't seem like the sort to try to protect the squishies, though the extra attack he would get if I was getting targeted could help him do a bit more damage.

Like I said, I might be overthinking it, though. I've been able to block most things, with the exception of flyers/climbers who can avoid me (and I just got some Winged Boots to help with that), but I really just run into melee range with SG, take hits, and pass concentration checks since I took Res: Con. I don't have a lot to dissuade people from running away and a lot of enemies have been smart enough to take the possible 1d8+STR opportunity attack rather than stay in the Spiritual Guardians grinder. I also still tend to lose a lot of HP and have to use Relentless Endurance once every couple of days. I tend to take a lot of unblockable damage and while I'm getting better at keeping myself up as I get more spell slots, I'm a little worried when we start getting more enemies that use things like dex saves that I'm terrible at, or have very high attack bonuses that I can't dodge. One of the other reasons I was considering EK, since I would get +1 ac, the shield spell for reactionary AC, and Absorb Elements to help with damage from failed saves, along with booming blade as an at-will melee damage cantrip and possibly a familiar.

Honestly, I might be about as tanky as I could be all things considered, just feels like I could do a little bit more. The issue might be solved as I level, though. I'm a little stingy with my spell slots in battle, since I like to save things for out of combat utility or emergencies, so I might feel like I'm doing more once I have a few slots to burn.

[SVamp]

Seems to me a lot of your issues get solved by sentinel: stop their movement so they stay in spirit guardian range, and if they are very dangerous use the dodge action or sanctuary. You can always multiclass afterwards.