Class / PrC suggestions for my gestalt character?

[skunk3]

I am currently playing in a fairly high-powered gestalt campaign. Keep in mind that I am not trying to min/max here, just have a fun, capable, and flavorful character.

We are currently level 16. The DM said that the campaign is slated to go to at least level 30 and we have quite a bit of combat so it's not as though I'll never get there. We should also end up with divine ranks eventually. CG alignment btw.

On one side of my gestalt I have Warlock 16.
The other side of the gestalt is a +4 LA from being a Pixie, +1 for the Dark template, 10 levels of Enlightened Spirit, and I just recently took my first level in Occult Slayer. I plan to take all 5 levels in Occult Slayer.

After level 20 I will continue taking Warlock on one side of the gestalt for the bonus feats. (As well as several epic Warlock feats that I will qualify for!)

I don't know what I should do with the other side of the gestalt though. I have considered Artificer but it seems just a little bit redundant with Warlock in terms of crafting, especially given the fact that our DM as a house rule said that taking the feat "Craft Magic Items" basically counts as all crafting feats in one, so no need to have scribe scroll, craft Wondrous Item, etc. This works out beautifully for me as a Warlock, of course.

Flavor-wise I play this character as a very stealth-based blaster. I initially planned on doing a lot of crowd control and such but I've found that in most of the combat encounters we've had thus far it has made more sense to just blast rather than use Chilling Tentacles, Wall of Perilous Flame, etc. Eldritch Chain + Cone have been very handy.

I have no idea what to take for the other side of the gestalt past level 20. I won't really qualify for many prestige classes, and of the base class options the only one that seems appealing is Rogue, especially with the spell reflection ACF. (Which would give me some spell reflection from Rogue and Occult Slayer.) Suggestions? What am I overlooking?

[liquidformat]

3 levels of Paladin of Freedom seems like a pretty good investment, it gives you immunity to compulsions, and cha to all saves. If you weren't CG or your DM allows you to wave the alignment requirements of hexblade, 5 levels gives you quite a bit of return as well.

[Rebel7284]

I would recommend some Sublime Chord. A few Sorcerer/Wizard/Bard spells are very useful.

[The Kool]

So, I have some general gestalt advice, but this seems to be an existing character and you're looking for advice beyond level 20, yes? You already have most of your build, and want to continue with something that is, at a minimum, that same power curve. Most of my general advice doesn't apply then, as it relates to things like BAB and saves which aren't impacted past 20. However, I can share a few comments.

Taking a class into epic levels is very rarely worthwhile. Yes, you do get the epic bonus feats, so if that's what you're after and you level quickly it might be your thing. On the whole though, you may get more impact from multiclassing. If it's an option, consider switching away from Warlock at level 21 and striking up a new path.

Tome of Battle is your friend. All non-initiating classes still advance your initiator level by half. This means that even without any levels in something like Warblade, you will have an initiator level of 10 at level 20. This puts you at a strong leg up if you multiclass into one at level 21, letting you shortcut the dead zone of those early levels.

Epic Spellcasting... is this going to be in your game? If so, talk with your DM, because you'll be pitifully outclassed not being a caster unless the DM reigns it in. On a related note, if you expect the game to go as far as level 40, consider starting a full caster class from scratch once you hit 21. There are some things like Practiced Spellcaster that can help you boost your CL up to better values.

Prestige classes. It's worth keeping one going. There's not much that Warlock qualifies you for, but you should ask yourself... where is this character going? Once you've fulfilled the build goals, what's the new goal? When I stat a build into epic levels, I generally meet my goal at some point and have to come up with a new goal to stat past that. Depending on what you pick, you may need 3-5 levels in some other class to set you up for the PrC.

EDIT: If your DM is gearing towards divine ranks and playing a gestalt game, chances are they are flexible with the rules in favor of Rule of Cool and Awesome Fun. If you want to advance into a spellcasting class but are daunted by the long climb it will take to hit top tier spells, consider this thought that just occurred to me and I'm pretty sure isn't in any printed source: Propose to your DM that you advance both sides in the same class, thus advancing that class at double speed (not to let your class level exceed your character level... or just to a limit of 20). This would let you advance as, say, a Wizard//Wizard and gain 2 levels of wizard casting every character level and a bonus wizard feat every 2-3 levels, putting you at wizard level 20 when you reach character level 30. This might line up nicely with a planned climax of the campaign, so if it intrigues you it might be worth suggesting.

[skunk3]

So, I have some general gestalt advice, but this seems to be an existing character and you're looking for advice beyond level 20, yes? You already have most of your build, and want to continue with something that is, at a minimum, that same power curve. Most of my general advice doesn't apply then, as it relates to things like BAB and saves which aren't impacted past 20. However, I can share a few comments.

Taking a class into epic levels is very rarely worthwhile. Yes, you do get the epic bonus feats, so if that's what you're after and you level quickly it might be your thing. On the whole though, you may get more impact from multiclassing. If it's an option, consider switching away from Warlock at level 21 and striking up a new path.

Tome of Battle is your friend. All non-initiating classes still advance your initiator level by half. This means that even without any levels in something like Warblade, you will have an initiator level of 10 at level 20. This puts you at a strong leg up if you multiclass into one at level 21, letting you shortcut the dead zone of those early levels.

Epic Spellcasting... is this going to be in your game? If so, talk with your DM, because you'll be pitifully outclassed not being a caster unless the DM reigns it in. On a related note, if you expect the game to go as far as level 40, consider starting a full caster class from scratch once you hit 21. There are some things like Practiced Spellcaster that can help you boost your CL up to better values.

Prestige classes. It's worth keeping one going. There's not much that Warlock qualifies you for, but you should ask yourself... where is this character going? Once you've fulfilled the build goals, what's the new goal? When I stat a build into epic levels, I generally meet my goal at some point and have to come up with a new goal to stat past that. Depending on what you pick, you may need 3-5 levels in some other class to set you up for the PrC.

EDIT: If your DM is gearing towards divine ranks and playing a gestalt game, chances are they are flexible with the rules in favor of Rule of Cool and Awesome Fun. If you want to advance into a spellcasting class but are daunted by the long climb it will take to hit top tier spells, consider this thought that just occurred to me and I'm pretty sure isn't in any printed source: Propose to your DM that you advance both sides in the same class, thus advancing that class at double speed (not to let your class level exceed your character level... or just to a limit of 20). This would let you advance as, say, a Wizard//Wizard and gain 2 levels of wizard casting every character level and a bonus wizard feat every 2-3 levels, putting you at wizard level 20 when you reach character level 30. This might line up nicely with a planned climax of the campaign, so if it intrigues you it might be worth suggesting.

Epic Warlock is an exception to the rule. Epic Warlock is pretty awesome due to the feats, and by continuing to take levels in Warlock past 20 I will have access to the bonus feats that come from that. With my invocations from Warlock, Enlightened Spirit (most of them retrained), possibly a Codex Advocare or two, as well as taking the feat "Extra Invocation" a couple of times, I will be able to qualify for several epic Warlock feats by level 30. 5 of them, actually.

-Dark Transient
-Eldritch Sculptor
-Lord of All Essences
-Master of the Elements
-Morpheme Savant

The stuff that those feats will give me makes it TOTALLY worth sticking with Warlock past level 20.


ToB classes and Psionics are off of the table, unfortunately. (Otherwise I'd totally go with Psionics.)

As far as epic spellcasting goes, it will of course be available but it would take many levels for it to come online, and I have no idea if we are even going to play long enough for that to come to fruition.

I have met my goal thus far of being a 'super Warlock' that excels at stealth and social encounters. There's all things that I can do or could have done to min/max super hard but that's not what this game is about really. No cheese here with a bunch of multiclassing shenanigans. I want to keep the flavor and style of my character more or less intact. I have great CHA so I could go Sorcerer, and I have decent INT so I could go with a Wizard, but honestly the ideas that fit the theme/vibe of my character the most would be:

-Rogue
-Spellthief
-Sorcerer into Divine Oracle (I'll need to take a feat)


Since CHA is going to be my best stat by far I was looking into classes that favor CHA but of the options I saw, nothing really struck me as flavorful in relation to this character. I am not interested in anything melee-centric as I will be staying out of harm's way as much as possible, and if baddies do get up close and personal I have the means to get away quickly, and if I do have to fight I'll bust out my Eldritch Glaive.

Rogue doesn't give me anything exciting aside from lots of skill points, a spell reflection ACF in place of Evasion, and a few damage dice of sneak attack.

Spellthief thematically fits with my character very well but it isn't particularly potent.

Sorcerer into Divine Oracle *somewhat* fits with my character but seems kinda blah.


Shadowcaster into some sort of PrC also fits my character's theme really well as a Dark Pixie who specializes in stealth, but the mysteries themselves seem pretty weak.

[The Kool]

For the spellthief, what if you spare a feat on Master Spellthief? If I understand it right, your Warlock levels count as 'arcane spellcaster levels', so that should stack for determining certain things. The awkward part is that by the RAW of the feat, this would instantly let you steal 9th level spells, but you wouldn't be able to store them. Again I advocate checking with your DM to see what they think about adjusting the feat slightly. SpellSkill would be a worthwhile ACF for your build (CW).

Shadowcaster... Ah, I do like this one. Shame it had so little support. I'd recommend Noctumancer but it seems like it doesn't quite line up with your build. I'd recommend Child of Night PrC, but... it's pretty underwhelming.

[skunk3]

For the spellthief, what if you spare a feat on Master Spellthief? If I understand it right, your Warlock levels count as 'arcane spellcaster levels', so that should stack for determining certain things. The awkward part is that by the RAW of the feat, this would instantly let you steal 9th level spells, but you wouldn't be able to store them. Again I advocate checking with your DM to see what they think about adjusting the feat slightly. SpellSkill would be a worthwhile ACF for your build (CW).

Shadowcaster... Ah, I do like this one. Shame it had so little support. I'd recommend Noctumancer but it seems like it doesn't quite line up with your build. I'd recommend Child of Night PrC, but... it's pretty underwhelming.

I don't think that Master Spellthief would work unless I am mistaken.

[The Kool]

I don't think that Master Spellthief would work unless I am mistaken.

Hmm... I think you're right. The block of text I was thinking of seems to exclusively refer to prestige classes.

[Troacctid]

Have you looked at my Warlockopedia yet? It has a bunch of suggestions.


Taking a class into epic levels is very rarely worthwhile. Yes, you do get the epic bonus feats, so if that's what you're after and you level quickly it might be your thing. On the whole though, you may get more impact from multiclassing. If it's an option, consider switching away from Warlock at level 21 and striking up a new path.
Ah, spoken like someone who's never looked at the epic warlock before.

[The Kool]

Ah, spoken like someone who's never looked at the epic warlock before.

That I have not, so I bow to the more experienced in those specifics.