Making Exhaustion Happen More

[Garfunion]

I’m thinking about adding more ways to get levels of exhaustion; for example when a crit is rolled, instead of doing double damage the creature gains a level of exhaustion. Would this make things unbalanced?

[nickl_2000]

It would make creatures/PCs that have more attacks much more powerful. Imagine someone summoning a very large group of Velociraptors who have pack tactics and 2 attacks each. You could down a party in no time with those rules.

[Garfunion]

It would make creatures/PCs that have more attacks much more powerful. Imagine someone summoning a very large group of Velociraptors who have pack tactics and 2 attacks each. You could down a party in no time with those rules.
That thought did come to mind but, I just feel the exhaustion system is under used.

[No brains]

Most of what I have experienced and read about exhaustion is that it is not fun and the rules work for something that should generally be avoided. If you add exhaustion to combat, players are going to second-guess every encounter they could get into.

To give a metric of how much of a pain in the behind exhaustion is, consider the berserker barbarian. Frenzy gives a bonus action attack. That's something people like so much, they dual wield, take PAM, or take other routes that require some real level of investment. Even then, people are usually happy within limitations given to them. Dual wield requires a light weapon and gives no ability bonus, PAM requires using a specific set of weapons and a d4 damage attack, and those are considered worth it. The level of exhaustion frenzy gives is regarded as not worth it.

If you want to make exhaustion more common, consider making removing exhaustion more common as well. Under your new model, taking 2 crits in a day will make it so a player can't attack normal until tomorrow and won't use ability checks (including initiative checks) normally until the day after. That might bog down adventure. If you changed it so that Lesser Restoration and maybe some homebrew potion* cured one level of exhaustion, then maybe players could still get meaningful amounts of tasks done in a day.

If you desire more exhaustion as it currently works, run a desert or other low-resource game. Lack of food, lack of water, and the inability to take a long rest can all add three levels of exhaustion in one day. Then again, that's a huge disadvantage to players, so if they take ranger or druid levels to offset some of that, let them have those benefits. You've succeeded in making exhaustion dangerous and the players took steps to confront the danger.

Be aware that buffing exhaustion will be a balancing act.

*lol

[KorvinStarmast]

I’m thinking about adding more ways to get levels of exhaustion; for example when a crit is rolled, instead of doing double damage the creature gains a level of exhaustion. Would this make things unbalanced?
No, just un fun.

My suggestion: don't. Exhaustion is a crappily implemented mechanic in this edition. We had a campaign in a jungle where everyone was making a lot of exhaustion checks. Daily. All it did was slow the game down.

[vexedart]

Getting levels of exhaustion is actually pretty easy to hand out if you’re aware of what can cause it. Making it swelteringly hot or frigidly cold could start off exhaustion, hunger from lack of food or water. Not resting properly. Maybe a long drawn out combat. You should try a chase seen too. I’d suggest reading more about it in the DMG. It is an incredibly debilitating status effect though and slows the games pace to a crawl and pretty much makes everyone want to rest. It’s a good way to put the party into self preservation mode. It does add an intense feeling of encroaching dread which can be good for the narrative. Can also get old quick if you hand it out often.

[Man_Over_Game]

I actually made a few methods to utilize the Exhaustion mechanic a lot more often:


Adrenaline Surge: Make epic boss fights by allowing the players to take a Short Rest in the middle of combat when they cause the boss to hit 50% HP. The catch? They take Exhaustion upon doing so, and the boss gets harder for the rest of the fight. AKA "This isn't even my final form!"
Pain!TM: Halve your attack damage to inflict Pain!TM, by forcing a DC equal to the damage dealt. Pain!TM is like Exhaustion, except it can't kill you (instead knocking you unconscious) and it is removed upon taking a Short Rest or healing to your maximum HP.



If you're interested in either of these, the links in my signature explain both in detail.

[R.Shackleford]

I’m thinking about adding more ways to get levels of exhaustion; for example when a crit is rolled, instead of doing double damage the creature gains a level of exhaustion. Would this make things unbalanced?

This specifically screws over martial characters.

If you're going to specifically screw over the non-casters at least let them remove exhaustion levels with HD.

[Hail Tempus]

Making exhaustion more common is like instituting rules for things like equipment breaking or lingering injuries: it hurts the PCs but is generally meaningless against NPCs. PCs engage in several fights every day, so as the day progresses they become less and less effective under a system like this. That just encourages the 5 minute adventuring day, and bogs down the game, as PCs start trying to take a long rest after every fight.

[Kane0]

Some ideas to make exhaustion more common:

- Lesser Restoration removes 1 exhaustion level
- Greater Restoration removes all exhaustion

- When dropped to 0 HP you gain 1 level of exhaustion
- Something like the DMG Healing Surge variant rule (eg as an action spend up to Prof bonus Hit Die to heal and gain 1 exhaustion)
- Reroll a saving throw for 1 level of exhaustion
- Add in some spell uses for exhaustion, such as converting Waves of Fatigue to 5e or an upcast option for Ray of Enfeeblement or the ability to take a level of exhaustion to upcast a spell by 1 slot
- Exhaustion from travel and exploration (especially hurrying in unfavorable terrain)
- Creature abilities that feature save or exhaustion such as an Alternate Wight/Vampire drain ability or a desert creature's dehydration power

[FrancisBean]

Making exhaustion more common is like instituting rules for things like equipment breaking or lingering injuries: it hurts the PCs but is generally meaningless against NPCs. PCs engage in several fights every day, so as the day progresses they become less and less effective under a system like this. That just encourages the 5 minute adventuring day, and bogs down the game, as PCs start trying to take a long rest after every fight.

While I agree whole-heartedly with this, reading it made me realize that clever PCs could find ways to make the exhaustion rules work for them, too. If they know that certain situations (or house rules!) cause exhaustion, they also know how to arrange those situations for that nasty boss fight before it happens. Sort of a niche situation, but it's still a double-edged sword... One edge is just a lot longer than the other.

And now I'm making mental notes for the next enemy interrogation I arrange as a player. A few levels of exhaustion and suddenly the ability to resist intimidation goes way down!

[Pex]

That thought did come to mind but, I just feel the exhaustion system is under used.

Then let it be. Its lack of use isn't making the game unplayable so don't fix what isn't broken.

[Man_Over_Game]

Then let it be. Its lack of use isn't making the game unplayable so don't fix what isn't broken.

I'm not sure if "don't fix what isn't broken" really helps your case. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but most of the claims against Exhaustion are that it's broken.

[Garfunion]

I'm not sure if "don't fix what isn't broken" really helps your case. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but most of the claims against Exhaustion are that it's broken.
Precisely, the system is broken. There are very few creatures and spells that deliver a level of exhaustion to the PCs, almost to the point that spells that remove exhaustion levels become pointless. Even the new Artificer Alchemist subclass feature will be under used.
Which is why I titled the thread as it is. It’s almost as if the exhaustion system was added in as an afterthought to help fluff up some of the monsters.
————
Also thank you everyone who have posted here. You have given some really good insight with the exhaustion system.

[Man_Over_Game]

Precisely. There are very few creatures and spells that deliver a level of exhaustion to the PCs, almost to the point that spells that remove exhaustion levels become pointless. Even the new Artificer Alchemist subclass feature will be under used.
Which is why I titled the thread as it is.

————
Also thank you everyone who have posted here. You have given some really good insight with the exhaustion system.

A few things I want to mention, in regards to Exhaustion's frequency:

Exhaustion gets worse as you get more of it. One level is just disadvantage on Ability checks. Three levels is Disadvantage on Attacks and Saving Throws. There's a very big difference here, so make sure that whatever solution you implement isn't causing it to wrack up too quickly.

Since you relieve yourself of one level every time you have a restful Long Rest, a comfortable rate I recommend is 1 Exhaustion every 2 restful days. This ensures that Exhaustion is something that's relatively common without it ever comfortably stacking up. Even in harsh conditions, saying you have effectively a 1/3 chance of gaining Exhaustion and a 2/3 chance of losing it is pretty reasonable. More likely than not, you're never going to have more than 1 Exhaustion (11% chance to go from 0 Exhaustion to 2 Exhaustion in this ratio).

[Hail Tempus]

And now I'm making mental notes for the next enemy interrogation I arrange as a player. A few levels of exhaustion and suddenly the ability to resist intimidation goes way down! Exhaustion is a very effective interrogation tool, yes. Good interrogators know that hurting your interrogatee is something amateurs do. But lack of sleep will make anyone sing.

[No brains]

Mmmmaaayyybe if you changed it so that poisons caused exhaustion, it could buff exhaustion and poison at the same time. As it stands, PCs can't benefit from either poisons or exhaustion, but if a buyable poison caused some level of exhaustion, PCs could make more use of it... and their GP.

Maybe add it so that poisons give non-stacking exhaustion levels depending on their value. Cheap stuff gives one, 100GP stuff gives two, really top shelf stuff gives 3.

Though this would also deepen the temptation to play warforged and yuan-ti, which really don't need any help. Dwarves would also see a boon.

Again, I have to say that this might not be fun for players. The exhausted condition won't share fun memories with you. It also won't bring you doritos/ mountain dew.

[Pex]

I'm not sure if "don't fix what isn't broken" really helps your case. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but most of the claims against Exhaustion are that it's broken.

What's not broken is the lack of using it not affecting game play. The game works fine without it in the sense that's it's hardly used why bother giving it more screen time. It adds complexity and frustration.

[Sigreid]

IMO, exhaustion doesn't come up that much because it's brutal. No matter what level or CR you are exhaustion can wreck you quick. Because it's so brutal, characters and NPCs alike will do nearly anything and everything within their power to prevent and recover from it as quickly as possible. If you want to delve into it, however, you don't have to change the rules. It's a massive environmental challenge if the party doesn't know how to prepare for the climate they will be in. It's also the real threat in a zombie apocalypse scenario where the real danger isn't the combat power of the zombies, but the way they can keep coming and the party can be left with no chance to rest as spell slots and energy levels slowly wane.

[Ritorix]

Something that could work to reduce PC deaths: players could 'buy off' failed death saves by taking a level of exhaustion. If it's a choice between death and inconvenience they will go with exhaustion.

[Naanomi]

I’m thinking about adding more ways to get levels of exhaustion; for example when a crit is rolled, instead of doing double damage the creature gains a level of exhaustion. Would this make things unbalanced?
So... half-orc... Assassin 3/Barbarian 17... auto-crit on three attacks (lots of ways to get that third attack), each dealing 4 levels of exhaustion? Ouch!

[Lunali]

Something that could work to reduce PC deaths: players could 'buy off' failed death saves by taking a level of exhaustion. If it's a choice between death and inconvenience they will go with exhaustion.

Could even combine it with the rule on crits, give them the option to reduce the attack for a level of exhaustion. Most of the time it won't be worth it, but occasionally the crit will be a KO or otherwise large enough to be worthwhile.

[Tanarii]

IMX players are hellbent determined to do almost anything to avoid exhaustion, e.g. they won't even risk a single dash over the dash limit, even though it's a check and not a sure thing.. If you're bent on making it matter more, you should use that to channel the game the way you want, not just punish players more on random critical hits they can't do anything about.

For example, if you wanted to kill pop up healing, add exhaustion each time a character drops to 0 hps. You won't see a lot more exhaustion, but it'll sure have a big affect on the game. Players will start pre healing long before 0 hps, and think a lot more about tactical retreats behind a line of combat.

[Man_Over_Game]

So... half-orc... Assassin 3/Barbarian 17... auto-crit on three attacks (lots of ways to get that third attack), each dealing 4 levels of exhaustion? Ouch!

I mean, consider the alternative. 3 crits from a Barbarian with 2d6 Sneak Attack? Yeah, that sucker's dead.

[Naanomi]

I mean, consider the alternative. 3 crits from a Barbarian with 2d6 Sneak Attack? Yeah, that sucker's dead.
Eh, I mean... lots of top end monsters would survive the 222 average damage you could pump out

[guachi]

I wanted to give players some kind of set back that wasn't simply a binary dead/not-dead so I added one level of exhaustion each time a PC drops to zero hp. All levels of exhaustion are removed with eight hours of rest.

The result was played did a very good job not falling to zero hp. They still took lots of damage but they made sure to heal PCs close to zero.

In an entire campaign one PC got two levels of exhaustion and that was from one fight. He dropped to zero, rolled a 20 on his death save, and then dropped to zero again. That fight was against the BBEG so it was worth it.

[Laserlight]

For example, if you wanted to kill pop up healing, add exhaustion each time a character drops to 0 hps. You won't see a lot more exhaustion, but it'll sure have a big affect on the game. Players will start pre healing long before 0 hps, and think a lot more about tactical retreats behind a line of combat.

A couple of campaigns ago, we used that rule. One guy got three levels of Exhaustion in one day; after that, no one hit zero for the rest of the campaign.