What would have happened if the king and the queen had invited Maleficent?

[S@tanicoaldo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1-WpFfWoAEtmsA.jpg
We all know that both in the cartoon and the original tale the evil fairy got angry for not being invited and cursed the baby.

But what if Sleeping beauty parents had invited her? What doy ou guys think it would have happened?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1-WpFrWwAAAUQo.jpg

-She would be so pleased to be invited that she would give Sleeping beauty some cool badass power as her gift.
-She would curse the baby anyway because she is evil and you should not willing invite evil into your house, in special near your newborn baby.
-She would be happy about the respect they displayed towards a being so powerful as she, but being unable to comprehend good she would cause the baby anyway despite trying to bless her with something.
-She would be happy but she would not show up.
-Somethign else.

So what you guys think?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1-WmYaWwAEt99V.jpg

[Tvtyrant]

I think we would be hearing the story of a prince who didn't treat her well and became a loathsome monster, or how she ate a pig heart, etc.

The bigger issue in the Grimmsey verse is that extremely powerful and capricious monsters walk the land looking for people to get mad at.

[hamishspence]

I thought Enchanted Forest Chronicles had an interesting take on it - the character ended up unable to fit into the standard fairytale plots:


Alinora: It started when the wicked fairy came to my christening.
Cimorene: She put a curse on you?
Alinora: No. She ate cake and ice cream until she nearly burst and danced with my Uncle Arthur until two in the morning and had a wonderful time. So she went home without cursing me, and Aunt Ermintrude says that that's where the whole problem started.
Cimorene: Lots of princesses don't have christening curses.
Alinora: Not if a wicked fairy comes to the christening.

[Jeivar]

Alinora: It started when the wicked fairy came to my christening.
Cimorene: She put a curse on you?
Alinora: No. She ate cake and ice cream until she nearly burst and danced with my Uncle Arthur until two in the morning and had a wonderful time. So she went home without cursing me, and Aunt Ermintrude says that that's where the whole problem started.

Now I'm curious what that problem was.

[Traab]

I like this world an author mercedes lackey has where basically there are hundreds of kingdoms and they are all effected by The Tradition. Basically, fairy tales are real, they happen, and if any circumstances start to happen that sort of line up with a fairy tale, The Tradition, acting like some natural force will do its best to make it happen. For example, if a man has a daughter by one wife who dies and he remarries, the stepmother is almost certain to be evil and treat her like a slave, cinderella basically. Or, if a princess is having its christening, its almost impossible to not forget some evil fairy/witch/whatever and cause them to curse the child. The story, for the book I read at least, goes with fairy godmothers who go around and try to stop the bad endings. So for every curse of death an evil fairy does, the fairy godmother who snuck in goes, "Not death but sleep" etc etc etc. Or they are the ones who test the princes who go off to save the day and give them magic gear to slay the evil whatever. They do this because, aside from it being the right thing to do, they can actually siphon magical power from The Tradition, which is also why the evil ones try to make these things happen as well, as long as the fairy tale lasts, they gain more and more power.

Long winded wind up aside, basic gist is, even if they DID manage to invite the evil fairy, there would be some sort of insult that justifies cursing the kid. Either the majordomo forgets to set out a plate, or they run out of fine china and give her pewter plates, whatever.

[hamishspence]

Now I'm curious what that problem was.
Apparently every time their family tried to set things up for a "fairytale ending", nothing happened. Such as by buying her a spinning wheel for her 16th birthday.
The story, for the book I read at least, goes with fairy godmothers who go around and try to stop the bad endings. So for every curse of death an evil fairy does, the fairy godmother who snuck in goes, "Not death but sleep" etc etc etc. Or they are the ones who test the princes who go off to save the day and give them magic gear to slay the evil whatever. They do this because, aside from it being the right thing to do, they can actually siphon magical power from The Tradition, which is also why the evil ones try to make these things happen as well, as long as the fairy tale lasts, they gain more and more power.

Long winded wind up aside, basic gist is, even if they DID manage to invite the evil fairy, there would be some sort of insult that justifies cursing the kid. Either the majordomo forgets to set out a plate, or they run out of fine china and give her pewter plates, whatever.
Yup. The "evil fairy" (much less evil than most) tries for a much less harmful curse (messy hair) but precautions still had to be taken to ensure The Tradition didn't turn it into strangling hair.

[Rodin]

Now I'm curious what that problem was.

If it's the series I remember, the world basically runs on Fairy Tale tropes. Princesses and Princes are a dime a dozen, and if you aren't a particularly notable specimen you can have trouble attracting someone. So the Princesses (and their parents) are trying to get an evil curse put on themselves, or get captured by a dragon, or , because that is the best way to attract an eligible Prince who is above their status to come and rescue them.

I've only read the first book, where the heroine (and I use that word advisedly) decides she can't be having with the whole affair and runs off to [I]work for a dragon, who is rather bemused by the whole thing. Quite a funny book, all told, but it was a bit on the quirky side for me.

[Eldan]

She'd probably have done the same thing as all the other enchantresses. In the original tale, they didn't spurn her because she was evil. They just didb't have enough cuttlery for all of them so they left one out.

[Douglas]

If it's the series I remember, the world basically runs on Fairy Tale tropes. Princesses and Princes are a dime a dozen, and if you aren't a particularly notable specimen you can have trouble attracting someone. So the Princesses (and their parents) are trying to get an evil curse put on themselves, or get captured by a dragon, or , because that is the best way to attract an eligible Prince who is above their status to come and rescue them.

I've only read the first book, where the heroine (and I use that word advisedly) decides she can't be having with the whole affair and runs off to [I]work for a dragon, who is rather bemused by the whole thing. Quite a funny book, all told, but it was a bit on the quirky side for me.
I think I've read it, and another amusing bit I remember (from one of the later books) is about a genie in a bottle. The protagonist releases the genie unintentionally, and it turns out that genie tradition demands that a) if he's released less than 1000 years after his imprisonment, he has to grant 3 wishes, and b) if he's released after more than 1000 years then he should kill the person who released him, but allow that person to choose the manner of death. It's been under 1000 years for him, but he'd never live down the humiliation if he went back to genie society without killing the one who released him.

So this genie tries acting like it's been over 1000 years, says he'll kill the protagonist, and asks how she wants to die. She immediately responds "old age". He insists it has to be today, they argue, and eventually the truth comes out. She suggests that he grant the wishes and go back in the bottle, and she'll set a spell to open it again after the remaining few centuries, by which time she will most certainly be dead, hopefully of the cause she chose. He agrees, she wishes for some fairly minor things such as some hen's teeth (a magical ingredient she needed for something), and they carry out the agreed plan.

[An Enemy Spy]

You know that person you occasionally have to spend time with who is just like, the worst, but for some reason they're still in your circle of friends? That's her. She would have made the party a total drag and everyone would be like "Why did you even invite her?" to the king.

[Frozen_Feet]

She would be pleased and give Aurora her blessing, all right.

Flashforward a thousand years and Aurora is known as Ymir, the woman who made a deal with the Devil to gain supernatural powers and gave birth to accursed Eldian people. :smalltongue:

[SaintRidley]

Her name is Maleficent. I don't think she ever avoids becoming astonishingly evil in her life.

[Ravens_cry]

She'd probably have done the same thing as all the other enchantresses. In the original tale, they didn't spurn her because she was evil. They just didb't have enough cuttlery for all of them so they left one out.
Indeed. A very 'damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Either she gets pissed because she's not invited, breaking sacred hospitality, or because her place setting is not as fine as the other fey, breaking it another way. Either way, they're screwed.

[Forum Explorer]

Indeed. A very 'damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Either she gets pissed because she's not invited, breaking sacred hospitality, or because her place setting is not as fine as the other fey, breaking it another way. Either way, they're screwed.

Stuff like this? This is why you hire a professional party planner. People are all like, oh it's so expensive, and I can just figure it out on my own. How hard can it be? Next thing you know your baby shower is ruined and your daughter has been cursed to die on her sixteenth birthday. :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

I think I've read it, and another amusing bit I remember (from one of the later books) is about a genie in a bottle.

That was in the first book - Dealing with Dragons (released as Dragonsbane in the UK).

[comicshorse]

Indeed. A very 'damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Either she gets pissed because she's not invited, breaking sacred hospitality, or because her place setting is not as fine as the other fey, breaking it another way. Either way, they're screwed.

Seconded.
Somebody called Maleficent is going to get angry at something in this party

[Wraith]

Terry Pratchett had a take on this subject. One of his most famous Witches, Nanny Ogg, "wrote" a book about etiquette and other sage advice; among which was that if you're ever having a christening or other similar event, you should make damn sure that you invite the local old crone and make sure that she's well taken care of.

Do whatever it takes to keep her welcome. Make sure she gets first pick of the ham sandwiches, keep her plied with sherry, and keep your snotty aunt out of her way, and you just *might* end the evening with an extra wish in your pocket, or maybe even another not-so-fairy godmother who'll be prepared to teach your child some really interesting life lessons...

If nothing else, by putting up with a grumpy old witch for a few hours then even if you don't profit directly from it then you're making sure that you're not going to hear a maniacal cackle in the middle of the ceremony and then wake up centuries later to find everything covered in 3" of dust and skeletal mice in the punch bowl. And bare in mind that Nanny Ogg was best friends with Granny Weatherwax, so she knows exactly what it takes to placate some really grumpy old witches!

[chainer1216]

Shes a Fae, she would have been obligated to give a boon to the child, that boon would have been something both helpful and troublesome.

[Themrys]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1-WpFfWoAEtmsA.jpg
We all know that both in the cartoon and the original tale the evil fairy got angry for not being invited and cursed the baby.

But what if Sleeping beauty parents had invited her? What doy ou guys think it would have happened?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1-WpFrWwAAAUQo.jpg

-She would be so pleased to be invited that she would give Sleeping beauty some cool badass power as her gift.
-She would curse the baby anyway because she is evil and you should not willing invite evil into your house, in special near your newborn baby.
-She would be happy about the respect they displayed towards a being so powerful as she, but being unable to comprehend good she would cause the baby anyway despite trying to bless her with something.
-She would be happy but she would not show up.
-Somethign else.

So what you guys think?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1-WmYaWwAEt99V.jpg


They did not invite her because they didn't have enough golden plates.

If they had decided to invite her and give her an ordinary plate, she might still have been angry at this slight and cursed the baby. Perhaps not quite with death. Maybe the princess would have turned into a monster on her birthday.

The sensible thing to do would have been to give the king or queen an ordinary china plate and golden plates to all the fairies. Or (because the fairies will probably want the same as the queen and king have, regardless of what it is; they may not even know the relative value of humans' plate materials without context) explain the situation to the nicest fairy of the realm and get her to put up with not getting a golden plate.
Possibly even just use normal plates for everyone.

Because it is perfectly possible that if they had not invited another fairy, or slighted another fairy by not giving her a golden plate, the other fairy would have done either exactly the same, or cursed the princess in some other way. The idea that some fairies are inherently good and will never harm humans is a relatively new one. In the original fairytale, that bit about the uninvited fairy being evil might not even have been there. Fairies in general are rather sensitive and prone to overreactions in such things.

The fairy was not called "Maleficent" in the original fairytale, either.

(And, really, let's be realistic here. If I was the ruler of a fantasy land, and had the conondrum of not having enough suitable cutlery for all the fairies, I would send all the fairies with names like "great and wonderful benefactor of humankind" a very, very nice invitation card, and the fairy they call "Evildoer" an apology letter citing the regrettable lack of appropriate cutlery and a nice gift. Because the fairy people DARE insult by calling her evil names is probably either the least evil or the least powerful, so either way, you are best off insulting her rather than the others.)

@Wraith: Not inviting Granny Weatherwax to a christening usually only results in the vampires you DID invite mind-controlling everyone. Which, admittedly, is a very bad thing. I highly suspect Nanny Ogg did not write this book to spare people Granny's wrath, but to get herself free food and drinks.

[Traab]

They did not invite her because they didn't have enough golden plates.

If they had decided to invite her and give her an ordinary plate, she might still have been angry at this slight and cursed the baby. Perhaps not quite with death. Maybe the princess would have turned into a monster on her birthday.

The sensible thing to do would have been to give the king or queen an ordinary china plate and golden plates to all the fairies. Or (because the fairies will probably want the same as the queen and king have, regardless of what it is; they may not even know the relative value of humans' plate materials without context) explain the situation to the nicest fairy of the realm and get her to put up with not getting a golden plate.
Possibly even just use normal plates for everyone.

Because it is perfectly possible that if they had not invited another fairy, or slighted another fairy by not giving her a golden plate, the other fairy would have done either exactly the same, or cursed the princess in some other way. The idea that some fairies are inherently good and will never harm humans is a relatively new one. In the original fairytale, that bit about the uninvited fairy being evil might not even have been there. Fairies in general are rather sensitive and prone to overreactions in such things.

The fairy was not called "Maleficent" in the original fairytale, either.

(And, really, let's be realistic here. If I was the ruler of a fantasy land, and had the conondrum of not having enough suitable cutlery for all the fairies, I would send all the fairies with names like "great and wonderful benefactor of humankind" a very, very nice invitation card, and the fairy they call "Evildoer" an apology letter citing the regrettable lack of appropriate cutlery and a nice gift. Because the fairy people DARE insult by calling her evil names is probably either the least evil or the least powerful, so either way, you are best off insulting her rather than the others.)

@Wraith: Not inviting Granny Weatherwax to a christening usually only results in the vampires you DID invite mind-controlling everyone. Which, admittedly, is a very bad thing. I highly suspect Nanny Ogg did not write this book to spare people Granny's wrath, but to get herself free food and drinks.

Or, you know, not inviting someone to the party who lacks the magical power to curse your daughter or the military/economic might to harm your kingdom if they take insult from the slight instead. "Look, we only have so many golden plates and the nigh omnipotent fey will destroy us if any of them get insulted. If you agree to not attend, we will cut you a good deal on blah blah blah" The ambassador from bumblefrick nowheresville would likely take that offer in a heartbeat, send a gift to the party instead of attending, and enjoy a decent diplomatic victory he can brag about back at home for the rest of his life. "I managed to get Happilyeveraftersville to cut us in on the magic dust trade at a better deal than middlerankington somewheresortaimportantstan and all it took was NOT attending a boring state function!"

[Lapak]

I like this world an author mercedes lackey has where basically there are hundreds of kingdoms and they are all effected by The Tradition.
For a similar thing set in the modern world, I can reccomend Seanan McGuire's Indexing series, where a secret government bureau is responsible for preventing fairy-tale outbreaks which constantly attempt to upset the natural order. The POV character is a narrowly-averted Snow White who has to deal with both the job and her 'condition' - skin literally as white as milk, lips red as blood, small animals trying to dance attendance on her to the point where birds batter themselves to death on her apartment windows every morning, etc.

Based on the two examples and the stories, worlds ruled by the narrative of fairy-tale logic will do their damndest to play out - the not-quite-a-Wicked-Stepsister in Indexing has to fight constantly against impulses to harm those around her. I suspect a well-treated Maleficent would wittingly or unwittingly find an excuse for offense - if it wasn't the invite or the cutlery she's be served something she was allergic to or poured a wine from a mortal enemy's vineyard or SOMETHING so that the story played out.

[Traab]

For a similar thing set in the modern world, I can reccomend Seanan McGuire's Indexing series, where a secret government bureau is responsible for preventing fairy-tale outbreaks which constantly attempt to upset the natural order. The POV character is a narrowly-averted Snow White who has to deal with both the job and her 'condition' - skin literally as white as milk, lips red as blood, small animals trying to dance attendance on her to the point where birds batter themselves to death on her apartment windows every morning, etc.

Based on the two examples and the stories, worlds ruled by the narrative of fairy-tale logic will do their damndest to play out - the not-quite-a-Wicked-Stepsister in Indexing has to fight constantly against impulses to harm those around her. I suspect a well-treated Maleficent would wittingly or unwittingly find an excuse for offense - if it wasn't the invite or the cutlery she's be served something she was allergic to or poured a wine from a mortal enemy's vineyard or SOMETHING so that the story played out.

The book I read had a girl Ella Cinders. Her step mother wasnt THAT awful, but she was basically the live in maid in her own home. The problem was, the only prince nearby was 7. There was all this magic forcing her in the cinderella path but no way for it to end. Eventually, her fairy godmother shows up, explains things to her, and takes her on as an apprentice. Basically "It will be your job to make certain that either the tradition gets turned aside by altering the path enough that it no longer matches a fairy tale, or to ensure the happily ever after happens as soon as possible, with as little pain and suffering as possible" Another annoying side effect is, she has to be very careful as even as a fairy godmother she could be influenced by the tradition, as an example, dealing with various prince types is a chore because the tradition is still trying to force her to fall in love for her "happily ever after" Its a really interesting concept.

[Pex]

She would bless the child that only a worthy man could have her to live happily ever after. The unfortunate side effect is when she was old enough any man who faltered however innocently would die. The princess gets upset about all this and tries to kill herself but ends up sleeping the eternal sleep instead. Eventually the worthy prince arrives and kisses her awake, but Maleficent is not convinced he's the One. She challenges him and in so doing is vanquished.

[hamishspence]

The book I read had a girl Ella Cinders. Her step mother wasnt THAT awful, but she was basically the live in maid in her own home.

Yup. The Stepmother is stated outright to have gotten her father to marry her via a powerful love charm though - and is strongly implied to have killed the father when the charm started wearing off.

Add in the traditional Cinderella-style mistreatments, and she probably qualifies as one of the nastier versions of "Cinderella's Stepmother" in media.

[Jay R]

What would have happened if Isildur had thrown the Ring into the Cracks of Doom?
What would have happened if the Evil Queen had accepted Snow White as the fairest in the land?
What would have happened if nobody had kidnapped Tony Stark?
What would have happened if the Capulets and the Montagues weren’t feuding?
What would have happened if Krypton had not been about to blow up?
What would have happened if Professor Utonium hadn’t accidentally added Chemical X to the formula?

Then the story doesn’t happen. That’s all.

[Friv]

I'm going to go with one of the following:

Possibility #1 - The Evil Fairy arrives at the feast, is well-treated and happy, and grants a "boon" to the Princess that is ultimately harmful to the kingdom. The Princess becomes a story about the monster princess whose heart had to be saved by a good-hearted peasant boy.

Possibility #2 - The Evil Fairy arrives at the feast, and another guests insults her. She gets so mad that she curses the hell out of that guest and leaves. We get the story of that guest's baby daughter instead.

[Douglas]

The book I read had a girl Ella Cinders. Her step mother wasnt THAT awful, but she was basically the live in maid in her own home. The problem was, the only prince nearby was 7. There was all this magic forcing her in the cinderella path but no way for it to end. Eventually, her fairy godmother shows up, explains things to her, and takes her on as an apprentice. Basically "It will be your job to make certain that either the tradition gets turned aside by altering the path enough that it no longer matches a fairy tale, or to ensure the happily ever after happens as soon as possible, with as little pain and suffering as possible" Another annoying side effect is, she has to be very careful as even as a fairy godmother she could be influenced by the tradition, as an example, dealing with various prince types is a chore because the tradition is still trying to force her to fall in love for her "happily ever after" Its a really interesting concept.
That one is The Fairy Godmother, first book in the Tales of the 500 Kingdoms series by Mercedes Lackey. Great series, with some interesting applications of the concept. And given the nature of the setting, I'd bet that there are exactly 500 kingdoms in the world - and that if that ever threatens to change, The Tradition starts pushing hard to prevent it, whether that means saving a kingdom, destroying one, merging two, preventing a merger, or splitting a kingdom. With a strong preference for options that preserve the list of which kingdoms exist, but the others will do if those really won't work.

[Wraith]

@Wraith: Not inviting Granny Weatherwax to a christening usually only results in the vampires you DID invite mind-controlling everyone. Which, admittedly, is a very bad thing. I highly suspect Nanny Ogg did not write this book to spare people Granny's wrath, but to get herself free food and drinks.

You're thinking of Carpe Jugulum, I'm thinking of Nanny Ogg's Cook-Book, which was one of the "in universe" books written similar to Death's Domain and The Discworld Almanacs.

The Cook-Book wasn't a novel as such, but a real cook-book written as though by Nanny Ogg. There are some illustrations - the ornery old witch being fed ham rolls and drinking sherry very definitely is not Esme Weatherwax, just some beak-nosed old biddy in witches' clothing. The implication being that ALL witches can make your life hell if you displease them, so make sure they get invited to the party!
While not aimed directly at Granny, I suspect that Nanny learned a lot about diplomacy by interacting with her, and managed to find a way to recommend some benefits for herself along the way. :smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

Stuff like this? This is why you hire a professional party planner. People are all like, oh it's so expensive, and I can just figure it out on my own. How hard can it be? Next thing you know your baby shower is ruined and your daughter has been cursed to die on her sixteenth birthday. :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:
Or hire a goldsmith.:smallamused:

[Eldan]

Or just have some fingerfood.

[Rodin]

You're thinking of Carpe Jugulum, I'm thinking of Nanny Ogg's Cook-Book, which was one of the "in universe" books written similar to Death's Domain and The Discworld Almanacs.

The Cook-Book wasn't a novel as such, but a real cook-book written as though by Nanny Ogg. There are some illustrations - the ornery old witch being fed ham rolls and drinking sherry very definitely is not Esme Weatherwax, just some beak-nosed old biddy in witches' clothing. The implication being that ALL witches can make your life hell if you displease them, so make sure they get invited to the party!
While not aimed directly at Granny, I suspect that Nanny learned a lot about diplomacy by interacting with her, and managed to find a way to recommend some benefits for herself along the way. :smalltongue:

The description definitely seems self-serving. This is the same universe where the best-selling book on how to kill witches is written by a witch, and contains instructions that involve giving said witch a nice cup of tea before chucking her into a river in easily escapable bonds.

[Wraith]

The description definitely seems self-serving. This is the same universe where the best-selling book on how to kill witches is written by a witch, and contains instructions that involve giving said witch a nice cup of tea before chucking her into a river in easily escapable bonds.

You're absolutely right, it *is* self-serving. Nanny Ogg is notorious for turning up just as wine is being bottled, or sausages are being made, or cakes being baked with an expectant expression and a large, empty sack.

On the other hand, there are also witches like Black Alice, Mrs.Earwig and Lilith Weatherwax. While likely to net herself a few freebies, Nanny Ogg's advice is also entirely appropriate in the face of her less sympathetic (and less merciful) 'sisters'.

That's how you know that Nanny Ogg is one of the Good witches; she gives plenty and so she's allowed to take a little. The Bad Witches are the ones who give a little and then feel entitled to take.

[Pex]

What would have happened if Isildur had thrown the Ring into the Cracks of Doom?
What would have happened if the Evil Queen had accepted Snow White as the fairest in the land?
What would have happened if nobody had kidnapped Tony Stark?
What would have happened if the Capulets and the Montagues weren’t feuding?
What would have happened if Krypton had not been about to blow up?
What would have happened if Professor Utonium hadn’t accidentally added Chemical X to the formula?

Then the story doesn’t happen. That’s all.

Smeagol, still being a bad Hobbit, would be a warning tale to all Hobbits about doing things they oughtn't be doing like going on adventures. When Bilbo returns with his treasure he sells Bag End and moves to Laketown.

Snow White becomes Rapunzel.

Tony Stark becomes Iron Man via science experiment.

A comedy of errors.

Batman defeats Lex Luthor.

We are spared another dumb cartoon.

[Ravens_cry]

Or just have some fingerfood.
I don't know about you, but generally plates are still involved with finger food.

[Rodin]

Smeagol, still being a bad Hobbit, would be a warning tale to all Hobbits about doing things they oughtn't be doing like going on adventures. When Bilbo returns with his treasure he sells Bag End and moves to Laketown.


Not so sure about this one. If the One Ring doesn't exist, then Gollum isn't alive* by the time Bilbo goes on his adventure. That means there's nobody from him to meet when he gets separated from the Dwarves, and also means that he has no way to sneak past the Goblins at the back door.

So the result is that Bilbo gets captured trying to escape and spends the rest of his days as a slave in the Goblin mines. The Dwarves mourn him, then carry on only to get eaten by spiders in Mirkwood. Gandalf whistles nonchalantly and hopes nobody noticed what happened to his adventuring party, and another story gets added to the legend of "Gandalf Stormcrow".



*He's only around due to the enhanced lifespan granted by the Ring, and good or bad he would have died of old age long before Bilbo was alive.

[Jay R]

Chaos Theory and the Butterfly Effect demonstrate that we have no idea what would happen.

[Traab]

Not so sure about this one. If the One Ring doesn't exist, then Gollum isn't alive* by the time Bilbo goes on his adventure. That means there's nobody from him to meet when he gets separated from the Dwarves, and also means that he has no way to sneak past the Goblins at the back door.

So the result is that Bilbo gets captured trying to escape and spends the rest of his days as a slave in the Goblin mines. The Dwarves mourn him, then carry on only to get eaten by spiders in Mirkwood. Gandalf whistles nonchalantly and hopes nobody noticed what happened to his adventuring party, and another story gets added to the legend of "Gandalf Stormcrow".



*He's only around due to the enhanced lifespan granted by the Ring, and good or bad he would have died of old age long before Bilbo was alive.

That is a good point, bilbo needed not just the ring, but a guide to the exit from where he fell. Im not saying its IMPOSSIBLE for him to have escaped without either of those, but its not very likely. On the other hand, the butterfly effect could have messed with things something fierce. With the final death of sauron all the way back in the time of isildur, the forces of good would have had a much easier time of things without his spirit constantly stirring up trouble. The alliance between elves and men would have remained intact most likely due to no betrayal by isildur. Who is to say what would have changed over all those centuries? For all we know, the goblins and such might have found themselves being wiped out or harried away to the furthest parts of the world. Maybe smaug never would have attacked the lonely mountain in the first place. Would gandalf and the other wizards even be on middle earth if sauron had been destroyed?

[Jay R]

Back to the original question:

Maleficent offends Fauna, who stomps off in a huff. So she never gives Aurora the gift of song. Since Aurora cannot sing, she never become the heroine of a Disney movie, and we never learn the rest of her story.

[keybounce]

Stuff like this? This is why you hire a professional party planner. People are all like, oh it's so expensive, and I can just figure it out on my own. How hard can it be? Next thing you know your baby shower is ruined and your daughter has been cursed to die on her sixteenth birthday. :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

Oh! What if Pinkie Pie had been responsible for the party and the guest list?

[Jayngfet]

You're absolutely right, it *is* self-serving. Nanny Ogg is notorious for turning up just as wine is being bottled, or sausages are being made, or cakes being baked with an expectant expression and a large, empty sack.

On the other hand, there are also witches like Black Alice, Mrs.Earwig and Lilith Weatherwax. While likely to net herself a few freebies, Nanny Ogg's advice is also entirely appropriate in the face of her less sympathetic (and less merciful) 'sisters'.

That's how you know that Nanny Ogg is one of the Good witches; she gives plenty and so she's allowed to take a little. The Bad Witches are the ones who give a little and then feel entitled to take.

I'm gonna disagree. Those witches are Evil with a big E. Nanny Ogg is evil with a little e. Of all the non antagonistic witches she's routinley described as an abusive figure who plays power games with her family and has a tendency to muck things up. The fact that she's amusing to watch mostly stems from the way she pulls it off. If anyone would be consciously disenvited from a major social event it probably WOULD be Ogg.

[Eldan]

I wouldn't call Mrs. Earwig any kind of evil, really. She's condescending, dismissive and arrogant, but not really more so than most other witches, just in different ways. And yes, she's generally an unpleasant person. But we don't really ever see her do anything evil.

[deuterio12]

I'm gonna disagree. Those witches are Evil with a big E. Nanny Ogg is evil with a little e. Of all the non antagonistic witches she's routinley described as an abusive figure who plays power games with her family and has a tendency to muck things up. The fact that she's amusing to watch mostly stems from the way she pulls it off. If anyone would be consciously disenvited from a major social event it probably WOULD be Ogg.

Although she's not exactly a pure hearted angel, Nanny Ogg does plenty of good:
-It's mentioned Nanny Ogg's the one always being called to help with new births and babies (she's not called Nanny for nothing).
-Although she rules her massive family with an iron fist, she rules it in a pretty efficient way making sure everybody gets along nicely and is doing something useful for everybody.
-She's also great at being the life of a party-or even a funeral, helping people remember the best bits of the departed one.

[Aedilred]

I'm gonna disagree. Those witches are Evil with a big E. Nanny Ogg is evil with a little e. Of all the non antagonistic witches she's routinley described as an abusive figure who plays power games with her family and has a tendency to muck things up. The fact that she's amusing to watch mostly stems from the way she pulls it off. If anyone would be consciously disenvited from a major social event it probably WOULD be Ogg.


I wouldn't call Mrs. Earwig any kind of evil, really. She's condescending, dismissive and arrogant, but not really more so than most other witches, just in different ways. And yes, she's generally an unpleasant person. But we don't really ever see her do anything evil.

If I remember rightly, Black Alice was also described as "not bad, exactly, but so powerful that the difference stopped mattering" or something along those lines.

Nanny's not any kind of evil. She's got a lot of human flaws but her heart's in the right place and when it matters she does the right thing.

[Eldan]

She did a lot of things I'd call evil. Basically every fairy tale, from the descriptions. Including turning people into animals and roasting children alive.