What do you guys think of these support builds? Too MAD?

[Nefariis]

We are starting up a new campaign and I always play a low CHA, melee type and this time I want to play a pure support character who very very rarely attacks and will essentially be the face of the party.

I saw some neat luck/fate/dice changing builds that people posted a few days ago in the spirit of St. Paddys day that looked pretty fun to play - so this is my attempt to build on them.

Option 1:
Lore Bard X/Diviner 2 with lucky and bountiful luck

this build has:

portant
cutting word
bardic inspiration
lucky
jack of all trades
halfling luck
bountiful luck
bless (magical secrets)
find familiar (to grant advantage)


Pro: He can turn hits into misses, misses into hits, no one should roll a nat one at the table, jack of all trades, magical secrets, all around skill monkey, and he's fun at parties
Con: Doesn't get any ASI bumps until level 14, doesn't get all the feats until level 10

I've read pretty mixed reviews on portent, but it seems like this would be a pretty decent build to work the feature in on. He doesn't necessarily need max CHA since he isnt attacking much, though it would be helpful in CHA skill situations. Alternatively I could go human variant and skip halfling luck/bountiful luck, then I would get my first ASI at level 4 which seems more reasonable, but also lacks the fun of being able to change all the nat 1's at the table - and between portent and bountiful luck, I think portent would have more opportunities for use.

Option 2:
Order Cleric 1 / Lore Bard X / Divination 2

Since my primary function would be buffing/healing anyways, I think a level dip in Order cleric could be really strong. I'm doing what I would be doing anyways as well as granting people an extra attack as their reaction - it seems like the best of every world. Especially awesome with GWM/SS as they are now buffed and attacking.

However this build seems fairly mad as I need Cha, Wis, Int (though I would get access to medium armor/shields to relieve some of the need for dex) - but on the bright side my primary focus wouldn't necessarily be on attacking

Option 3:
Lore Bard X / Order Cleric 1

Dropping portent and the free find familiar/other spells to be a little less MAD. I can still buff and give attacks, I just dont have as many wizard spells and the ability to change as many dice.

So I guess what it really boils down too -

Do you guys like a halfling with lucky and bountiful luck? or do you think it puts a character too far behind for what you get?
Would human variant with lucky or another feat at first level be a better option for each of these builds?
Is Order Cleric 1 / Diviner 2 / Lore X even viable, or does it have too many dips/too MAD?
Is Portent and the wizard spells worth a few level dip?


what do you guys think?

[Guy Lombard-O]

We are starting up a new campaign and I always play a low CHA, melee type and this time I want to play a pure support character who very very rarely attacks and will essentially be the face of the party.

I saw some neat luck/fate/dice changing builds that people posted a few days ago in the spirit of St. Paddys day that looked pretty fun to play - so this is my attempt to build on them.

Option 1:
Lore Bard X/Diviner 2 with lucky and bountiful luck


I've read pretty mixed reviews on portent, but it seems like this would be a pretty decent build to work the feature in on. He doesn't necessarily need max CHA since he isnt attacking much, though it would be helpful in CHA skill situations.

Option 2:
Order Cleric 1 / Lore Bard X / Divination 2

Since my primary function would be buffing/healing anyways, I think a level dip in Order cleric could be really strong. I'm doing what I would be doing anyways as well as granting people an extra attack as their reaction - it seems like the best of every world. Especially awesome with GWM/SS as they are now buffed and attacking.

Option 3:
Lore Bard X / Order Cleric 1

Dropping portent and the free find familiar/other spells to be a little less MAD. I can still buff and give attacks, I just dont have as many wizard spells and the ability to change as many dice.


what do you guys think?

Well, since nobody experienced and intelligent responded to your question, you're stuck with me. So I'll give you my cent-and-a-half.

Option 1: overall very strong
Portent is a really strong feature. Not sure where you got the idea it wasn't, but some even consider divination the best school just because of this ability. I've seen lucky and bountiful luck in action, and they're also really nice support feats.

I don't understand why you say you don't need max Cha for this build, just because he won't be attacking a lot? But in addition to your face skills (which is one of your main considerations here, right?), your inspirations amount is based upon Cha, and the vast majority of your spell save DCs, so I definitely wouldn't neglect this characters Cha! In fact, I'd probably put off some of the feats until later, and raise up the Cha to 18 at level 8.

Option 2: nice, but probably too MAD
I like to have a couple (OK, more than a couple) of things which my character can do well. But spreading yourself this thin seems like too much! Each class brings you something nice, no doubt. But you'll want a decent AC (so 13-15 in either Str or Dex), and probably at least a 12 Con (hopefully a lot better, for those concentration checks) even if you're a back-row guy (they still get hit with ranged weapon and AoE attacks). If that's in addition to at least a 13 in Int, Wis, and Cha? Well. It seems like too much to me.


Option 3: Looks good
Just about any time you can take a UA (sub)class, it's going to be strong (at the very least)! So the 1 dip in Order looks very good. I assume you're going heavy armor for the build (you said medium armor for Order, but it's actually heavy), so keep in mind that you'll either need 13/15 Str, or you're going to be mighty pokey as a halfling! Or did you mean Medium & 14 Dex? Whichever, you'll have choices to make.

Hope some of that helps. Good luck and have fun!

[Nefariis]

So which do you like better for support / which combo do you see playing a more major role?


Bard/Diviner or Bard/Order and why

And which race would you pick?


human, halfling or half-elf.

I've been mulling these options over for a few days and I really can't decide.

[stoutstien]

So which do you like better for support / which combo do you see playing a more major role?


Bard/Diviner or Bard/Order and why

And which race would you pick?


human, halfling or half-elf.

I've been mulling these options over for a few days and I really can't decide.
If you have someone in party to take advantage of the reaction single attack like a rouge or barbarian than the order domain / bard combo is gold.

Diviner is going to be good no matter what depending on how well you can predict targets AC or saves.

[Great Dragon]

We are starting up a new campaign and I always play a low CHA, melee type and this time I want to play a pure support character who very very rarely attacks and will essentially be the face of the party.

I saw some neat luck/fate/dice changing builds that people posted a few days ago in the spirit of St. Paddys day that looked pretty fun to play - so this is my attempt to build on them.
:roy:

Option 1:
Lore Bard X/Diviner 2 with lucky and bountiful luck

Pro: He can turn hits into misses, misses into hits, no one should roll a nat one at the table, jack of all trades, magical secrets, all around skill monkey, and he's fun at parties
Con: Doesn't get any ASI bumps until level 14, doesn't get all the feats until level 10

I've read pretty mixed reviews on portent, but it seems like this would be a pretty decent build to work the feature in on. He doesn't necessarily need max CHA since he isn't attacking much, though it would be helpful in CHA skill situations. Alternatively I could go human variant and skip halfling luck/bountiful luck, then I would get my first ASI at level 4 which seems more reasonable, but also lacks the fun of being able to change all the nat 1's at the table - and between portent and bountiful luck, I think portent would have more opportunities for use.

Remember that you aren't quite as awesome as you might think, here.
Bountiful Luck only allows you to either 1) use your Halfling Luck or 2) Give it to one other person as a Reaction during the round. This means that you can't do both.

With Portent, you can change one Bad Die Roll into a Good one - by sacrificing the High Roll at the beginning of the day; and then change the Foe's Good Die Roll into a Bad One by sacrificing the Low Roll.
This is not a bad ability, but it does have limits - so be careful to use those Portent Numbers for when it's Important.

The Lucky Feat - this kinda depends on how your DM is allowing it to work.
Some will say that it only applies to you; others will allow you to "give" it to others.
So, you'll need to ask to figure out how effective this might be.

Another Feat to consider is Second Chance. Which can change a Foe's Hit to a possible Miss.
Which means no ASI for this Character, I believe.


Option 2:
Order Cleric 1 / Lore Bard X / Divination 2

As Guy Lombard-O pointed out - very MAD.


Option 3:
Lore Bard X / Order Cleric 1
Depends. Seems to me that your doubling up on potential Healing, here.
It does allow for more Buff spell options, so....


So I guess what it really boils down too -

Do you guys like a halfling with lucky and bountiful luck? or do you think it puts a character too far behind for what you get?
Would human variant with lucky or another feat at first level be a better option for each of these builds?
Is Order Cleric 1 / Diviner 2 / Lore X even viable, or does it have too many dips/too MAD?
Is Portent and the wizard spells worth a few level dip?


what do you guys think?

As for Race, that depends on how you want to interact with the rest of the Party.

I absolutely love my Lightfoot Halfling Rogue Swashbuckler 8 / Celestial Warlock 3 with Bountiful Luck! He's very helpful to the Group, and I have yet to come across the problem of having to choose between re-rolling for himself or another PC in the same Round, but I'm aware that it is a problem. Also, if he does help another PC, he can't do things like Uncanny Dodge in the same Round.

So, I just got the Second Chance Feat. I might get to see how effective that is in game, later today.

Variant Human will give you Lucky, and either more ASI or feats.
If the DM is allowing you to share, this can be good enough.
But, doing so seems that they are just allowing extra Inspiration, and so a lot of DMs won't allow this.

Nefariis

So which do you like better for support / which combo do you see playing a more major role?

Bard/Diviner or Bard/Order and why

I'm not experienced enough with 5e Multiclassing to really choose between the two.
And not having a Playtest Group means that I'm usually stuck in the White Room!

A lot depends on the DM's Campaign and the Party.

Have you thought of a Order Cleric/Diviner combo?
Con = You do lose upper Level Spells Known until Level 19 of whichever of these two classes you focus on, though.