Designing campaign-long dungeons?

[SangoProduction]

So....I sorta kinda hate dungeon crawl campaigns. But I think that's mostly because when I end up in one of those games (almost always by accident), the players weren't vetted so that they are actually interesting in their combat gameplay. That's pretty important when 90-100% of the game is a combat crawl. So, to see if there is a possibility of liking such a game, I am running a pseudo-dungeon crawl campaign.

Basically, like a bunch of manga/manhua coming out of South Korea, the setting is based in a city that's situated next to a dungeon (or two, in this specific case)...which act largely like video game dungeons, where the heart of the dungeon constantly summons in monsters, with the weaker ones being pushed to the outer reaches (read: entrances) of the dungeon.

As for an explanation for why the hell there is a town anywhere near such a veritable hell hole of "Die, Commoner!"... I also took that from a couple such manga, where the dungeons produce valuable resources as a byproduct of their existence, including rare metals, xp stones, and whatnot. Pretty barebones, but it's not the main focus.

So. My question to anyone who has had any ample experience in running such a game: How do you source your maps for your levels? Many of the randomly generated maps can feel pretty generic.
Also, any general tips?

[Kayblis]

I suggest taking inspiration on the Etrian Odyssey game series. Each game revolves around exploring a gigantic dungeon, gameplay is divided by floors with many hidden passages and shortcuts(some of them only available from one side), and each group of floors(4 or 5 depending on the game) is called a "Stratum" with its own theme and biome. Floors 1~5 can be your usual rock walls and natural formations, while 6~10 are a magic freezing tundra and 11~15 are ruins of an ancient civilization(with a makeshift town between 10 and 11 for basic needs, but not the usual resources of the outside world), and 16~20 are the insides of a gigantic beast. Take your theme and run wild with it.

[zlefin]

So....I sorta kinda hate dungeon crawl campaigns. But I think that's mostly because when I end up in one of those games (almost always by accident), the players weren't vetted so that they are actually interesting in their combat gameplay. That's pretty important when 90-100% of the game is a combat crawl. So, to see if there is a possibility of liking such a game, I am running a pseudo-dungeon crawl campaign.

Basically, like a bunch of manga/manhua coming out of South Korea, the setting is based in a city that's situated next to a dungeon (or two, in this specific case)...which act largely like video game dungeons, where the heart of the dungeon constantly summons in monsters, with the weaker ones being pushed to the outer reaches (read: entrances) of the dungeon.

As for an explanation for why the hell there is a town anywhere near such a veritable hell hole of "Die, Commoner!"... I also took that from a couple such manga, where the dungeons produce valuable resources as a byproduct of their existence, including rare metals, xp stones, and whatnot. Pretty barebones, but it's not the main focus.

So. My question to anyone who has had any ample experience in running such a game: How do you source your maps for your levels? Many of the randomly generated maps can feel pretty generic.
Also, any general tips?


what would a non-generic map feel like? how would it be different from a generic map?
what sources are you using for randomly generated maps?

is this more about the encounters, or more about the structure of the map itself?

I don't have any real experience to advise with; I was going to start dm'ing a game like that, but it fell through cause of players disappearing. my map wasn't built up too much, since it was unclear whether the game would actually start. also, it's a pain to manually make upa lot of encounters, but I also wanted to avoid the quantum ogre problem.

[The Kool]

So. My question to anyone who has had any ample experience in running such a game: How do you source your maps for your levels? Many of the randomly generated maps can feel pretty generic.
Also, any general tips?

Maps? Ah... I've, uh, mostly not used them. Define a few things, sketch out a basic layout, write yourself notes if you declare anything during a session, and make a map up on the fly when needed. If you're going with a more tactical dungeon crawl where every square matters, then good luck, that's a daunting task. I know, I tried and gave up.

[the_david]

The best dungeons are the ones you make yourself. Dungeon generators tend to make a bunch of boring rectangular rooms with repetitive encounters. It's hard to find a room that actually has a purpose in a generated dungeon, and if you do it's in the wrong location. Let's make some stuff up.
- The catacombs. You can randomly sprinkle in some undead encounters, or you could try to make some sense out of all of it and put most of them in a catacomb level.
- Lavatories. If people live in the dungeon they'll want to use the lavatory every now and then, so you might want to include them in your dungeon. If you're especially mean, like me, the lavatory is a mimic. Yes, there is a latch on the inside on the door. You are locked in there, with your pants around your ankles, until the rogue successfully unlocks the door.
- Prison cells. Like the catacombs, these would be in a convenient location, preferably one with not too many exits. An oubliette would be a nice touch.
- Beholder lair. Beholders have access to Disintegrate and so they can carve out their own lairs. A typical Beholder lair will have vertical tunnels so creatures that can't fly can't reach the beholder. (And those that can should know not to sneak up on a beholder.)
- Ethereal Filcher. That annoying ethereal filcher just stole the wizard's spellbook and disappeared through a wall. There doesn't seem to be a hidden passage, so the only thing you can do is search for the room on the other side of the wall. Make sure you play the monsters in a way that makes the best use of their abilities.
- Turn the dungeon upside down. In this case, it's the party that would be teleported to the bottom of the dungeon. Probably against their will. (A cursed scroll of teleport will automatically activate if you use Read Magic on it, for example.) Next thing you know, the players will have to find their way out of the dungeon. The highest level challenges are at the top of the dungeon, because those creatures have survived the longest.
- Small communities live inside the dungeon and trade with the adventurers.

[inuyasha]

If you're looking for a fun way to make a campaign-long dungeon, I suggest starting with what made the campaign long dungeon!

The 1st Edition DMs guide, if you can separate some of the crunch and update it to 3.P, is AMAZING. I use it all the time, and it makes dungeons that aren't entirely flat, but also don't have too much going on. Also they make dungeons with several layers instead of being just one flat plane like your usual online ones.

To supplement that or even replace it, I also found a book just a few weeks ago called the Tome of Adventure design. It's got dressing, it's got NPC charts, it's got dungeon generation charts in its own right. Overall it's just really fun.

I'm a little biased though because I'm a huge fan of Dungeon Crawl games.