How would you build phoenix wright with no caster levels.

[Reprimand]

hello I'm interested in making a character built after the one and only Phoenix Wright I'm trying to do this in an interesting way without going full caster levels though dips might be acceptable.

What I want: To be able to defend my client, ensure a fair trial, and uphold the law in the court while also being able to investigate crimes perhaps with the help of a para-legal like maya faye.
Wright is known for his almost impossible comebacks, or "turnabouts", during trials. I would like plenty of intelligence charisma wisdom without worrying too much about physical stats. Wright is known for being clumsy and poor in health afterall! I would like plenty of skillpoints and tricks to assist in my ability to investigate and convince people to help. I wouldn't mind having some magically assistance as long as it stays within the confines of the law and is not invading privacy or would constitute an illegal search. Ideally being able to convict even the BBEGs. Something allowing me to gain a huge boost for a small time would be ideal as I continue to uncover the hole in an argument to simulate the turnabouts wright is famous for.

What I don't want: I'm not sure I want to be a fullcaster many aren't in line with what I want skillpoints wise even if they're magical abilities would help a great deal. I would like to avoid templates as well. Wright is a human plain and simple.

[Rynjin]

You looking for a playable Phoenix Wright-esque character or what he would be in game?

If he were an NPC, he'd just be a mid-level Expert, about level 5-6, with max ranks in Bluff, Perception (or Spot and Search), Profession: lawyer, and the Leadership Feat.

As a PC, things would be slightly different. Basically any high skill rank class will do.

A Pathfinder Mesmerist might be particularly fitting though as it would let him fight without seeming to fight (via a damaging/debuffing gaze attack that is undetectable by your enemies). This would actually still work in the courtroom (since it's undetectable) and IIRC debuffs skill checks as well, lowering their chances of using Sense Motive against you.

[Silva Stormrage]

One level dip for Marshal so they could get Cha to Wis checks seems like it would be useful, take a second level for free Skill Focus (Diplomacy). Beyond that without spells most classes don't get that many bonuses to skills beyond skill points so I would second the NPC Expert build.

[Troacctid]

Noble 3/Master Inquisitive 4/Uncanny Trickster 3/Exemplar 9. Feats would include Able Learner, Investigate, Master Manipulator, and Skill Focus (Profession [lawyer]).

[Reprimand]

Oh no this is most certainly a playable character not an npc. I'm also not opposed to prcs and such but I just don't want to go into full caster shenanigans because it's becomes way to easy to pilot. Something diplomacy / sense motive / gather info focused would seems good. I might actually be okay with templates as long as it isn't crazy stuff like become undead etc and fits the theme of the character.

magic items progession, feats, classes, prcs etc would be very helpful.

Edit: I should also mention this is 3.5 not PF.

[Maat Mons]

The best way to ensure a fair trial is to cast Hallow on the courthouse. That, firstly, grants everyone inside Protection from Evil, which negates any charms or compulsions. So no Charming the judge for leniency, or using Dominate to force witnesses to lie. Secondly, you can attach a Discern Lies effect to it, so any witness who lies will need to make 12 saves (one per jury member) to try to keep the lie from being detected.

[Zaq]

I don’t love the class as a whole, but factotum would work reasonably well here. Especially since the class’s deceptively restrictive use limitations on various class features require you to often need to think on the fly and come up with crazy justifications for how bizarre tricks actually solve this problem or that problem. You know, like Phoenix does.

Plus you can use your “gain extra standard action” ability to ready actions to interrupt people with OBJECTION!s.

[Warchon]

Have a look at the Watch Detective PrC from MotW. I think it's exactly what you're looking for.
5 levels of Urban Ranger is an excellent thematic fit, and if your DM will allow Urban Tracking to qualify you for the prestige class it's damn near perfect, and has a skill list that is totally compatible with an All-Mental stat array.

[Malphegor]

I'd probably throw in the Spirit Sense feat in there for thematic questioning of the recently deceased. (More of a Maya thing but eh right series at least)

Honestly Phoenix and other lawyers in that series mostly do the work that a policeman should be doing on top of presenting evidence and debating the case, so Watch Detective is a good shout.

[Reprimand]

I've been doing a bit of digging what do you all think of the Fire-Souled Creature template.

I also really love the investigation feat suggestion this seems almost exactly like what I'd like.

Master Inquisitive I love this! I had no idea it even existed!
And I've considered exemplar a lot I like it but I don't know how to benefit the most from it.
and again I don't really know how to get the most out of Uncanny Trickster what skill tricks to focus on etc.
and I'm not sure my DM would like me putting in a whole campaign setting specific base class for noble just because he'd probably argue I wouldn't be taking it outside of this very niche scenario though I find the class interesting and didn't know about it's existance beforehand

[magic9mushroom]

I'd probably throw in the Spirit Sense feat in there for thematic questioning of the recently deceased. (More of a Maya thing but eh right series at least)

I'm thinking this is why Rynjin suggested Leadership. Maya's the cohort (probably a Spirit Shaman or maybe Shugenja, though Adept wouldn't be too far off and Cleric is plausible; that feat wouldn't go astray either).


Honestly Phoenix and other lawyers in that series mostly do the work that a policeman should be doing on top of presenting evidence and debating the case, so Watch Detective is a good shout.

Eh, yes and no. In a lot of the cases the police do their work, it's just that Feenie doesn't get access to it because the prosecutors are corrupt (this is an actual plot point for Edgeworth and the von Karmas, and Godot just hates Phoenix personally) and fail to disclose exculpatory evidence. The only case I recall where he really beats the police at their own game is 1-3 where he finds the kid witness.

[Darrin]

I think I found an opponent for him:

Keyrock, Caveman Lawyer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22192901&postcount=80)

[Zaq]

Honestly Phoenix and other lawyers in that series mostly do the work that a policeman should be doing on top of presenting evidence and debating the case, so Watch Detective is a good shout.

Yeah, and Phoenix is a defense attorney whose primary method of defending his clients is to find someone else guilty, so it’s not like roles are all THAT rigidly defined in the Wrightverse.

One of the talky feats in PHB2 (I forget if it’s Wanderer’s Diplomacy or the other one) has a “trap of words” function that explicitly helps you catch someone in a lie.

[Darrin]

One of the talky feats in PHB2 (I forget if it’s Wanderer’s Diplomacy or the other one) has a “trap of words” function that explicitly helps you catch someone in a lie.

It's the other one, Master Manipulator.

Wanderer's Diplomacy has Social Agility, which might be useful against a hostile witness (use Bluff instead of Diplomacy to improve someone's attitude), but I have a hard time imagining Phoenix's Bluff check ever being higher than his Diplomacy.

[Zaq]

If it’s not too magical for you, I feel like having a pair of gloves of object reading would be really helpful when investigating clues and pieces of evidence.

[Malphegor]

If it’s not too magical for you, I feel like having a pair of gloves of object reading would be really helpful when investigating clues and pieces of evidence.

This is probably the easiest way to havethat weird viewing cctv footage mechanic some of the games had- instead of checking camera feeds you're examining the magical memory the object has

[Troacctid]

I've been doing a bit of digging what do you all think of the Fire-Souled Creature template.
For +3 LA, I'm not a big fan.


I also really love the investigation feat suggestion this seems almost exactly like what I'd like.

Master Inquisitive I love this! I had no idea it even existed!
And I've considered exemplar a lot I like it but I don't know how to benefit the most from it.
and again I don't really know how to get the most out of Uncanny Trickster what skill tricks to focus on etc.
and I'm not sure my DM would like me putting in a whole campaign setting specific base class for noble just because he'd probably argue I wouldn't be taking it outside of this very niche scenario though I find the class interesting and didn't know about it's existance beforehand
Exemplar gives you a bunch of skill bonuses, so it's good on a skill-focused character like this one. It gives +4 and expertise to your most important skills, and eventually allows you to improve NPC attitudes with e.g. Profession (lawyer) rather than Diplomacy.

Uncanny trickster is easy: mental and interaction skill tricks.

If you can't use noble, then I'd be inclined towards factotum instead, or bardic sage (with oratory as your Perform skill and inspire awe instead of inspire courage).

[Prime32]

VigilanteCAdv PrC is another option - it has casting, but you can just pick utility spells like identify.

"OBJECTION!" could be represented by readying an action to use the DoomspeakCoR feat, which cripples your opponent's rolls for 1 round if they fail their save.