Two spell point methods of mine for review.

[Duke Malagigi]

While I honestly like the idea of spell points, I don't like how they are implemented in Unearthed Arcana. Because of this I have developed two rival spell point systems for use and I would like to know if either of them are any good.

First System: Spell slots into spell points take 1.

All spell points are equal to the spell level times the number of spell slots. For example: four fourth level spell slots would be equal to 16 spell points under this system. The price of a spell would be its level in spell points. 0 level spells count for half points.

Virtues of the system:

The spell slot to spell point conversion is easy to remember and use.

Vices of the System:

None yet noticed.

Second System: Spell slots into spell points take 2.

This is the same as option two but with spell points and costs doubled.

Virtues of the system:

The same as option number two.

Vices of the System:

None yet noticed.

Tables: Option 1

Cleric


Cleric

Level S.P. Maximum Spell Level
1 2.5 1
2 4 1
3 6 2
4 9.5 2
5 12.5 3
6 17.5 3
7 23 4
8 30 4
9 37 5
10 46 5
11 58 6
12 67 6
13 80 7
14 93 7
15 110 8
16 127 8
17 143 9
18 160 9
19 181 9
20 198 9

This is of course all before you convert domain slots.

Druid


Druid

Level S.P. Maximum Spell Level
1 2.5 1
2 4 1
3 6 2
4 9.5 2
5 12.5 3
6 17.5 3
7 23 4
8 30 4
9 37 5
10 46 5
11 58 6
12 67 6
13 80 7
14 93 7
15 110 8
16 127 8
17 143 9
18 160 9
19 181 9
20 198 9

Sorcerer


Sorcerer

Level S.P. Maximum Spell Level
1 5.5 1
2 7 1
3 8 1
4 15 2
5 17 2
6 28 3
7 33 3
8 50 4
9 69 4
10 74 5
11 83 5
12 106 6
13 117 6
14 153 7
15 166 7
16 188 8
17 206 8
18 238 9
19 255 9
20 273 9

Wizard


Wizard

Level S.P. Maximum Spell Level
1 2.5 1
2 4 1
3 6 2
4 9 2
5 12 3
6 25 3
7 29.5 4
8 36.5 4
9 43.5 5
10 57.5 5
11 66.5 6
12 77.5 6
13 92.5 7
14 105.5 7
15 118.5 8
16 135.5 8
17 149.5 9
18 166.5 9
19 177.5 9
20 190.5 9

Tables: Option 2

Cleric


Cleric

Level S.P. Maximum Spell Level
1 5 1
2 8 1
3 12 2
4 19 2
5 25 3
6 35 3
7 46 4
8 60 4
9 74 5
10 92 5
11 116 6
12 134 6
13 160 7
14 186 7
15 220 8
16 254 8
17 286 9
18 320 9
19 362 9
20 396 9

This is of course all before you convert domain slots.

Druid


Druid

Level S.P. Maximum Spell Level
1 5 1
2 8 1
3 12 2
4 19 2
5 25 3
6 35 3
7 46 4
8 60 4
9 74 5
10 92 5
11 116 6
12 134 6
13 160 7
14 186 7
15 220 8
16 254 8
17 286 9
18 320 9
19 362 9
20 396 9

Sorcerer


Sorcerer

Level S.P. Maximum Spell Level
1 11 1
2 14 1
3 16 1
4 30 2
5 34 2
6 56 3
7 66 3
8 100 4
9 138 4
10 148 5
11 166 5
12 212 6
13 234 6
14 306 7
15 332 7
16 376 8
17 412 8
18 476 9
19 510 9
20 546 9

Wizard


Wizard

Level S.P. Maximum Spell Level
1 5 1
2 8 1
3 12 2
4 18 2
5 24 3
6 50 3
7 59 4
8 73 4
9 87 5
10 115 5
11 133 6
12 155 6
13 185 7
14 211 7
15 237 8
16 271 8
17 299 9
18 323 9
19 357 9
20 391 9

Spell point costs per spell level.


Spell
level Method 1 Method 2
0 .5 1
1st 1 2
2nd 2 4
3rd 3 6
4th 4 8
5th 5 10
6th 6 12
7th 7 14
8th 8 16
9th 9 18

This will also be combined with the recharge magic (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/unearthedRecharge.html) variant.

[Duke Malagigi]

I'm only bringing this up because I first posted this a month ago and recieved no replies. Also, under this system a spellcaster can spend no more spell points on a single spell than his or her level plus one, or level plus one divided by two.

[DracoDei]

Seems like they are functionally TOTALLY identical, with only the numbers that get used any different.

[Duke Malagigi]

Seems like they are functionally TOTALLY identical, with only the numbers that get used any different.

There is a third one, but it's much more complicated. In the third system 0 level spell slots are multiplied by one while all other spell slots are multiplied by square routes of two. 1st level spell slots equal 2 spell points while 4th level spells and spell slots equal 16 spell points. At 20th level primary spellcasters can have around 4,000 or 5,000 spell points before ability bonuses and 9th level spells would cost 512 points each. Ultimately I decided not to post that one here.

[vegetalss4]

I'm only bringing this up because first posted this a month ago and recieved no replies. Also, under this system a spellcaster can spend no more spell points than his or her level, or level times two.

you need to word this one better or it sounds like they can cast level 9 spells in level nine

[Duke Malagigi]

you need to word this one better or it sounds like they can cast level 9 spells in level nine

I'll change it to half the caster's level plus one or the casters full level plus one.

[Kvenulf]

I've tried similar things, and I have found a problem. By simply adding up the spell slots, you, in fact, give spellcasters a lot more flexibility. This is not bad, in and of itself, but just think for a moment. At level 20, a Wizard has 190 spell points - this means she can cast 21 9th level spells. At that point, things are really unbalanced, as the higher level spells are really powerful.
Two suggestions, one harsh, one a bit gentler.
Harsh: Make the point cost for spells additive. Hence, level 1 spells cost 1, level 2 cost 3, level 3 cost 6, etc.
Gentle(r): Multiply your total by a fixed percentage, ie 90% or 85%. That reduces their power level a bit without loosing the flexibility entirely.

[Duke Malagigi]

Should I combine my spell point system with spell recharge or use some other ballancing method?

[Nelphine]

i would ask you to post the complicated third option that uses squares of levels. that option should avoid the problem of 'my wizard spends all his points on his top level spells because i really don't need any level 2 spells'

4000 points total, with 9th level spells costing 500 points means that if that wizard spends all his points on 9th level spells he'll only get 8 spells, which seems balanced. to get the most spells, you would clearly go with the number listed in the book, which makes sense. (or with more lower level spells, which again should be ok)

[Duke Malagigi]

Cleric


Cleric

1 5
2 8
3 12
4 19
5 27
6 31
7 56
8 82
9 118
10 166
11 240
12 336
13 484
14 676
15 972
16 1,356
17 1,948
18 2,716
19 3,388
20 4,156

This is of course all before you convert domain slots.

Druid


Druid

1 5
2 8
3 12
4 19
5 27
6 31
7 56
8 82
9 118
10 166
11 240
12 336
13 484
14 676
15 972
16 1,356
17 1,948
18 2,716
19 3,388
20 4,156

Sorcerer


Sorcerer

1 11
2 14
3 16
4 30
5 34
6 62
7 74
8 130
9 154
10 266
11 314
12 538
13 634
14 1,082
15 1,274
16 2,170
17 2,554
18 4,346
19 5,114
20 6,138

Wizard


Wizard

1 5
2 8
3 12
4 18
5 26
6 38
7 56
8 80
9 116
10 164
11 244
12 324
13 468
14 660
15 948
16 1,332
17 1,908
18 2,676
19 3,316
20 4,084

Spell costs per level



Spell Spell Point
Level Cost
0 1
1 2
2 4
3 8
4 16
5 32
6 64
7 128
8 256
9 512

[Kvenulf]

Okay, this is going to look like naysaying, but, by using the squaring technique, you have now created another balance problem. A 20th level sorceror can now cast Magic Missle 6000+ time a day. That means she's flinging around a little over 30,000 individual, low-power but hit automatically attacks. That will soften up most armies pretty effectively. Again, a serious balance issue.
One thing I have tried when doing a magic point system is to increase the cost for "scaling" spells, such as MM. The first costs 1 MP, each additional costs 1 more MP, up to the maximum for your level. Fireball, 3 MP gives you 1d6; each additional MP gives you an additional 1d6, up to your maximum. This isn't perfect (and what about non-scaling spells, hmmm?), but it is a bit better balanced.
I must confess, I've never come up with a satisfactory MP system for D&D, and I'm dubious about whether it can be done (and we haven't even started about how your players will react:eek: ) . I'm glad somebody else is trying it, though.

[Duke Malagigi]

Then I'll combine the other two methods in the first post with spell recharge. Would that work?

[Kvenulf]

I'm afraid I don't know what "spell recharge" is; I've only got the core books plus a coupe of others; none on magic. Rather than explain it to me, go with your gut.

[Duke Malagigi]

I'm afraid I don't know what "spell recharge" is; I've only got the core books plus a coupe of others; none on magic. Rather than explain it to me, go with your gut.

Basically recharge magic means that you have to wait a certain period of time between castings of a speicific spell. Under spell recharge rules you couldn't cast another augury until 6 hours after casting the same spell. See the "recharge magic" link in my first post. And yes, I will use this system in combination with magic recharge.

[Kvenulf]

*Looks at link he was too careless to notice earlier*

Okay, go for it. Your magic point system will at least keep these guys from blasting all day and all night. I don't think I'll be giving it a whirl, as this looks like an awful lot of dice-rolling and record keeping for me. But each to their own tastes! Enjoy, let me know how it works for you.:smallcool: