Level 20 Battle Royale

[hwem]

I will finish a lvl20 one-shot campaign. And now, we will have a level 20 Battle Royale where there's no multiclassing, UA materials, and with restrictive wish/divine intervention usage (I suppose we can't just say "I want everyone but myself dead"). I loved playing a high level wizard last campaign so I'd like to play a wizard. However, I am not sure which will be the strongest for battle royale where we may have up to 13 players (maybe a few more if more decide to join up). What wizard subclass would you say is the most powerful for this type of event?

I was initially thinking an illusionist. However, if there are other wizards then they will have maxed int and that may be a problem. Also, I am not sure if making adamantine wall of something with illusory reality will be that big of a deal for PvP (it was pretty crazy in real DnD aka non-PvP though...so good lol). Quite frankly, I don't think an illusionist will be that good in this.

I think the strongest wizard subclass will be either a diviner, war wizard, bladesinger, or abjurer.

edit: Appreciate the last topic of advice you guys gave me. It made the campaign so much more fun than I expected. Wizard is truly an amazing class lol.

[Man_Over_Game]

Probably Diviner. You don't need to be the most dangerous person, you just need to outlive everyone else.

The Portent ability will do well to keep you alive and burst through enemy saving throws. When you have a chance to flee, you can use things like True Seeing or See Invisibility to scout out the opposition as you maintain your survivability with Foresight. Wall of Force will keep pretty much any non-Wizard out, and I don't expect too many people to be packing Disintegrate to deal with it.

It's not the flashiest solution to your problems, but it's reliable. Hell, what's more reliable than someone who can see anything and chooses how dice rolls?

[Wildarm]

For a Wizard, Abjurer is pretty strong for a battle Royale. You'll be dealing with lots of high level magic as well DPR that your ward can help with.

Moon Druid is probably the absolute strongest though. Flexible forms, some with legendary actions and resistances and you have essentially unlimited HP unless you get one shotted or stun locked somehow.

[stoutstien]

Depending on environment I could see it turn into a stale mate.
Even if wish is off the table invulnerability can get you 10 minutes of free play is you can Counter spell any dispel targeted at you. (With some prep time nystul aura plus other long term buffs like water breath can help alot.)
Is 10 minutes enough to banish a moon druid onto it's "native" plane when it picks a elemental form?

[Man_Over_Game]

On a somewhat unrelated note, I'd love to see a Dexterity Sharpshooter Samurai at this level. With high Dex, he's likely going first, and with 20 damage per attack on 8 attacks at 400 feet of range, he's going to kill SOMEBODY in the first turn, and have enough THP to survive a big hit. Would be a fun fight to see with one of those running around.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Prepared spells is far more important than subclass for Wizard in this scenario. That said, I'd pick Illusionist. Though if you're not wanting to go that route, I won't bother getting into it. Otherwise Diviner with the Lucky feat is always good/versatile. Transmutation allows you Panacea, which is basically a megacure to save you and put you up to full HP.

My next choice after Illusionist however, and maybe even before Illusionist if I thought about it more, would be Conjuration. Your big benefits are:
-Your concentration cannot be broken as a result of taking damage while concentrating on conjuration spells.
-Your creatures you summon or create get 30 temp HP

So just imagine dropping some great conjuration spells and your enemies not being able to get rid of them.



A churning storm cloud forms, centered on a point you can see and spreading to a radius of 360 feet. Lightning flashes in the area, thunder booms, and strong winds roar. Each creature under the cloud (no more than 5,000 feet beneath the cloud) when it appears must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 2d6 thunder damage and becomes deafened for 5 minutes.

Each round you maintain concentration on this spell, the storm produces different effects on your turn.

Round 2. Acidic rain falls from the cloud. Each creature and object under the cloud takes 1d6 acid damage.

Round 3. You call six bolts of lightning from the cloud to strike six creatures or objects of your choice beneath the cloud. A given creature or object can't be struck by more than one bolt. A struck creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. The creature takes 10d6 lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

Round 4. Hailstones rain down from the cloud. Each creature under the cloud takes 2d6 bludgeoning damage.

Round 5–10. Gusts and freezing rain assail the area under the cloud. The area becomes difficult terrain and is heavily obscured. Each creature there takes 1d6 cold damage. Ranged weapon attacks in the area are impossible. The wind and rain count as a severe distraction for the purposes of maintaining concentration on spells. Finally, gusts of strong wind (ranging from 20 to 50 miles per hour) automatically disperse fog, mists, and similar phenomena in the area, whether mundane or magical.




A swirling cloud of smoke shot through with white-hot embers appears in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on a point within range. The cloud spreads around corners and is heavily obscured. It lasts for the duration or until a wind of moderate or greater speed (at least 10 miles per hour) disperses it.

When the cloud appears, each creature in it must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 10d8 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. A creature must also make this saving throw when it enters the spell's area for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there.

The cloud moves 10 feet directly away from you in a direction that you choose at the start of each of your turns.


Then there's always things like the Pixie cheese with Conjure Woodland Beings and such. Summon 8 pixies and have one make you invisible so you can hide, then use the rest to annoy/attack while waiting out the fight. After spending 1-2 4th level spells, you might be able to make it to the end of the fight without spending many resources. Then you're ready to burst someone down.

[hwem]

Prepared spells is far more important than subclass for Wizard in this scenario. That said, I'd pick Illusionist. Though if you're not wanting to go that route, I won't bother getting into it. Otherwise Diviner with the Lucky feat is always good/versatile. Transmutation allows you Panacea, which is basically a megacure to save you and put you up to full HP.

My next choice after Illusionist however, and maybe even before Illusionist if I thought about it more, would be Conjuration. Your big benefits are:
-Your concentration cannot be broken as a result of taking damage while concentrating on conjuration spells.
-Your creatures you summon or create get 30 temp HP

So just imagine dropping some great conjuration spells and your enemies not being able to get rid of them.



A churning storm cloud forms, centered on a point you can see and spreading to a radius of 360 feet. Lightning flashes in the area, thunder booms, and strong winds roar. Each creature under the cloud (no more than 5,000 feet beneath the cloud) when it appears must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 2d6 thunder damage and becomes deafened for 5 minutes.

Each round you maintain concentration on this spell, the storm produces different effects on your turn.

Round 2. Acidic rain falls from the cloud. Each creature and object under the cloud takes 1d6 acid damage.

Round 3. You call six bolts of lightning from the cloud to strike six creatures or objects of your choice beneath the cloud. A given creature or object can't be struck by more than one bolt. A struck creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. The creature takes 10d6 lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

Round 4. Hailstones rain down from the cloud. Each creature under the cloud takes 2d6 bludgeoning damage.

Round 5–10. Gusts and freezing rain assail the area under the cloud. The area becomes difficult terrain and is heavily obscured. Each creature there takes 1d6 cold damage. Ranged weapon attacks in the area are impossible. The wind and rain count as a severe distraction for the purposes of maintaining concentration on spells. Finally, gusts of strong wind (ranging from 20 to 50 miles per hour) automatically disperse fog, mists, and similar phenomena in the area, whether mundane or magical.




A swirling cloud of smoke shot through with white-hot embers appears in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on a point within range. The cloud spreads around corners and is heavily obscured. It lasts for the duration or until a wind of moderate or greater speed (at least 10 miles per hour) disperses it.

When the cloud appears, each creature in it must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 10d8 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. A creature must also make this saving throw when it enters the spell's area for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there.

The cloud moves 10 feet directly away from you in a direction that you choose at the start of each of your turns.


Then there's always things like the Pixie cheese with Conjure Woodland Beings and such. Summon 8 pixies and have one make you invisible so you can hide, then use the rest to annoy/attack while waiting out the fight. After spending 1-2 4th level spells, you might be able to make it to the end of the fight without spending many resources. Then you're ready to burst someone down.

You think conjurer is potentially better than an illusionist in this scenario? I would not have expected anyone to say that. Thanks. That's a cool perspective to say the least. It does sound fun to do things as you mentioned but would love to hear more people's thoughts on this topic.

[CTurbo]

I see 2 options

1. Abjurer would be REALLY tough to kill and is probably best suited for Battle Royale.

2. Bladesinger that runs Anti-Magic field and goes after the other spellcasters first. Not sure if this shuts down a druid from wildshaping. If it does, it's probably the top pick.

[hwem]

I see 2 options

1. Abjurer would be REALLY tough to kill and is probably best suited for Battle Royale.

2. Bladesinger that runs Anti-Magic field and goes after the other spellcasters first. Not sure if this shuts down a druid from wildshaping. If it does, it's probably the top pick.

Since it’s a magical effect I’d assume anti magic field works. I don’t know if bladesinger will be that good for a battle royale hats not just a 1v1 since bladesinging only lasts one minute. For something similar I could see a war wizard being really good though since it gives some good initiatives and defensive stuff.

Also, I’m still not too sold on conjurer being one of the better schools for a high level battle royale. Diviner, abjure and war wizard/bladesinger seem to stick out to me so far

[CTurbo]

Since it’s a magical effect I’d assume anti magic field works. I don’t know if bladesinger will be that good for a battle royale hats not just a 1v1 since bladesinging only lasts one minute. For something similar I could see a war wizard being really good though since it gives some good initiatives and defensive stuff.

So what's the best possible character that also has access to AntiMagical field? Swords or Valor Bard? Because I'm pretty sure that would be the only way to beat a Moon Druid unless everybody teams up against it.

[Zanthy1]

Conjurer's main upside is action economy. With more critters being summoned, you get more actions being used in your favor. If you're fighting another spellcaster this can be nice because they can disrupt concentration, and against martial it can cause them to have to either take a lot of hits or spend a lot of their attacks on your critters. Though I don't know if it would be my top choice, it certainly has some merit.

It is important to note that summon woodland creature Can summon pixies, but it is out of the control of the player. The caster does choose how many of what CR, but that is all that is decidedly chosen by the caster. So if you're planning on doing the pixie cheese, make sure you clear it ahead of time with your DM.

From Sage Advice Compendium on Errata'd rules:
"Specific Spells
When you cast a spell like conjure woodland beings, does the spellcaster or the DM choose the creatures that
are conjured? A number of spells in the game let you summon creatures. Conjure animals, conjure celestial, conjure minor elementals, and conjure woodland beings are just a few examples.

Some spells of this sort specify that the spellcaster chooses the creature conjured. For example, find familiar gives the caster a list of animals to choose from.

Other spells of this sort let the spellcaster choose from
among several broad options. For example, conjure minor elementals offers four options. Here are the first two:

• One elemental of challenge rating 2 or lower
• Two elementals of challenge rating 1 or lower

The design intent for options like these is that the spellcaster chooses one of them, and then the DM decides what creatures appear that fit the chosen option. For example, if you pick the second option, the DM chooses the two elementals that have a challenge rating of 1 or lower.

A spellcaster can certainly express a preference for what creatures shows up, but it’s up to the DM to determine if they do. The DM will often choose creatures that are appropriate for the campaign and that will be fun to introduce in a scene."

[Misterwhisper]

All that really matters in a battle royale is:

1. Go first
2. Be a full caster that is not a cleric or warlock.

That is about it.

So either a diviner or a war wizard.

Win initiative, force cage on yourself, wait for everyone else to blow resources killing themselves, mop up what is left.

[Helldin87]

I would toss War Wizard into the ring: +INT to initiative will help you ensure that you go first. Fun spells like Time Stop can help you capitalize on that to knock out whoever looks to be the most threatening. Wizards have insane kit for dealing with enemies in this kind of situation where you can really cut loose but you need to go first.

Good Luck. May the ODDS BE EVER IN YOUR FAVOR. =D

[Zanthy1]

All that really matters in a battle royale is:

1. Go first
2. Be a full caster that is not a cleric or warlock.

That is about it.

So either a diviner or a war wizard.

Win initiative, force cage on yourself, wait for everyone else to blow resources killing themselves, mop up what is left.

Forcecage on yourself is genius and I am sad to say that I hadn't even thought of it

[hwem]

Conjurer's main upside is action economy. With more critters being summoned, you get more actions being used in your favor. If you're fighting another spellcaster this can be nice because they can disrupt concentration, and against martial it can cause them to have to either take a lot of hits or spend a lot of their attacks on your critters. Though I don't know if it would be my top choice, it certainly has some merit.

It is important to note that summon woodland creature Can summon pixies, but it is out of the control of the player. The caster does choose how many of what CR, but that is all that is decidedly chosen by the caster. So if you're planning on doing the pixie cheese, make sure you clear it ahead of time with your DM.

From Sage Advice Compendium on Errata'd rules:
"Specific Spells
When you cast a spell like conjure woodland beings, does the spellcaster or the DM choose the creatures that
are conjured? A number of spells in the game let you summon creatures. Conjure animals, conjure celestial, conjure minor elementals, and conjure woodland beings are just a few examples.

Some spells of this sort specify that the spellcaster chooses the creature conjured. For example, find familiar gives the caster a list of animals to choose from.

Other spells of this sort let the spellcaster choose from
among several broad options. For example, conjure minor elementals offers four options. Here are the first two:

• One elemental of challenge rating 2 or lower
• Two elementals of challenge rating 1 or lower

The design intent for options like these is that the spellcaster chooses one of them, and then the DM decides what creatures appear that fit the chosen option. For example, if you pick the second option, the DM chooses the two elementals that have a challenge rating of 1 or lower.

A spellcaster can certainly express a preference for what creatures shows up, but it’s up to the DM to determine if they do. The DM will often choose creatures that are appropriate for the campaign and that will be fun to introduce in a scene."

Thanks for your thought and I am greatly interested in more discussions regarding conjurer in this scenario. But is it really a big advantage compared to what other schools offer though?

*Diviner’s portent
Abjurer’s anti-spellcaster traits
*War wizard’s initiative and defensive traits.

[PeteNutButter]

Is this a free for all? What will the terrain be like? How far away are you starting from others? Are magic items on the table?

If it's a free for all the best strategy is to avoid fighting until the majority of players are knocked out already. That can be as simple as invisibility and hide. Since there is no multiclassing, that means a goblin would do this best. It's a punk move, but the only practical way of winning.

Consider ways to take players out once they are weakened. You'll need to prepare for things that are hard to kill, such as a zealot barbarian. Above all survival is needed more than offense. You only really need to kill one person, the second to last one. You can leave the heavy lifting to the others.

[hwem]

- Free for all
- Terraine is mainly forest and plain (I am not sure though since the DM)
- We will be rolling for our initial positions and terrain is supposedly very large (not sure exactly how big since the DM is still working on making up the field

Thanks so far for the answers. It seems like diviner, war wizard, and abjurer are powerful as well as conjurer (surprisingly...since I've always heard about how weak it is even at higher levels)

edit: I am still iffy on conjurer actually being one of the best lvl 20 wizard schools for Battle Royale lol

[Misterwhisper]

- Free for all
- Terraine is mainly forest and plain (I am not sure though since the DM)
- We will be rolling for our initial positions and terrain is supposedly very large (not sure exactly how big since the DM is still working on making up the field

Thanks so far for the answers. It seems like diviner, war wizard, and abjurer are powerful as well as conjurer (surprisingly...since I've always heard about how weak it is even at higher levels)

edit: I am still iffy on conjurer actually being one of the best lvl 20 wizard schools for Battle Royale lol

Nevermind, in those conditions nobody can beat a moon druid.
It also gives a huge middle finger to any martial class especially melee ones.

[BigPixie]

No make a Transmuter Wiz and literally go full Minecraft on it. Dig Down and Dig Deep! Although the druid could still kill u. Then also MC 5 levels cleric for create food and water and let them kill each other. To keep the druid out just contuine to mold earth and seal yourself in. Panic Button:Meld w/Stone.

Druid: "Such a realistic sculpture of a transmuter! Must have cost this tunneling hobo a fortune!"



:smallsmile: That's my take!

[PeteNutButter]

Nevermind, in those conditions nobody can beat a moon druid.
It also gives a huge middle finger to any martial class especially melee ones.

If the players are rational. You can expect moon druids to get focus fired pretty early on. I can imagine a fighter archer or two will tear through the moon druid form hp and druid hp on round one.

The issue is most players know level 20 moon druid is a bit ridiculous.

[NecroDancer]

If you do need to fight a moon druid here are some strategies

1. Dominate person/other forms of mind control

2. Planeshift

3. Flesh to Stone

4. Polymorph the Druid into a weak animal (something with 1 hp) and then use a lot of quick damage to drop the Druid down to zero in one round.

[hwem]

If you do need to fight a moon druid here are some strategies

1. Dominate person/other forms of mind control

2. Planeshift

3. Flesh to Stone

4. Polymorph the Druid into a weak animal (something with 1 hp) and then use a lot of quick damage to drop the Druid down to zero in one round.

What would say are the best arcane traditions for this event?

[Misterwhisper]

If the players are rational. You can expect moon druids to get focus fired pretty early on. I can imagine a fighter archer or two will tear through the moon druid form hp and druid hp on round one.

The issue is most players know level 20 moon druid is a bit ridiculous.

Only if they start in line of sight, from the description of the area it seems rather spread out and random start.
As soon as it gets to the druid's initiative he becomes an earth elemental and nobody ever sees him again.

Also, @ Necromancer, none of those work unless you start in range on round one and win initiate.

[stoutstien]

i wonder how a an open hand monk would fair in this. if they can land a stunning strike, it could be game over for anyone. not even factoring in the save or suck/die effect they get.

[Misterwhisper]

i wonder how a an open hand monk would fair in this. if they can land a stunning strike, it could be game over for anyone. not even factoring in the save or suck/die effect they get.

In a level 20 fight unless people start in range of each other, in line of sight, and in mostly open terrain, nobody will ever get a melee swing in on someone unless they are also a melee class.

[stoutstien]

In a level 20 fight unless people start in range of each other, in line of sight, and in mostly open terrain, nobody will ever get a melee swing in on someone unless they are also a melee class.
With the tabaxi monk I would argue unless they start in a giant white room with absolutely no terrain involved they will be a way to close a gap with a move speed that is borderline supersonic.

[Misterwhisper]

With the tabaxi monk I would argue unless they start in a giant white room with absolutely no terrain involved they will be a way to close a gap with a move speed that is borderline supersonic.

You greatly overestimate how fast characters can move. A tabaxi monk using their burst of speed ability runs at a little more than 20 miles an hour. That is a high school track sprinter.

[stoutstien]

You greatly overestimate how fast characters can move.
360 feet in a 6 second window. So at max speed we are looking at 245mph
So not supersonic but being invisible and a high stealth mode would make targeting the monk before it's in striking range a crapshoot.
With Battle Royale style eI'm assuming they don't know who they're facing or where they are so I doubt every caster will just going to be flying around in the open an easy target for any ranged character to burn them down.

*Double dash, moblie feat and tabaxi racial feature can get 360 feet in on turn or 72 battle squares.

[Misterwhisper]

360 feet in a 6 second window. So at max speed we are looking at 245mph
So not supersonic but being invisible and a high stealth mode would make targeting the monk before it's in striking range a crapshoot.
With Battle Royale style eI'm assuming they don't know who they're facing or where they are so I doubt every caster will just going to be flying around in the open an easy target for any ranged character to burn them down.

*Double dash, moblie feat and tabaxi racial feature can get 360 feet in on turn or 72 battle squares.

360 feet in 6 seconds in a little over 40 mph.

[stoutstien]

That is not how dash works.
60 from monk/base speed
Moblie +10
Action to dash adds 70 more
Step to wind adds 70 more
Then feline aglity is a flat out double of total movement speed.
*A round is 6 seconds and we know a turn is less than a round. That's all we have to work with for turn time length
* Edit due to short change tabaxi base speed.

[Misterwhisper]

60 from monk/base speed
Moblie +10
Action to dash adds 70 more
Step to wind adds 70 more
Then feline aglity is a flat out double of total movement speed.
*A round is 6 seconds and we know a turn is less than a round. That's all we have to work with for turn time length

If you are using an action to dash and a bonus action, who cares if you get there, you can't do anything when you show up.

[stoutstien]

If you are using an action to dash and a bonus action, who cares if you get there, you can't do anything when you show up.
Stop moving the goalpost. the statement was that no melee class can get close enough to hit anybody.
I'm just pointing out it's not impossible even before you factor in spells like Misty step that some paladin's get or Shadow monks night crawler teleport.

I'm assuming that's the way this is set up they're not going to start in combat. They have to find each other first.

[Misterwhisper]

Stop moving the goalpost. the statement was that no melee class can get close enough to hit anybody.
I'm just pointing out it's not impossible even before you factor in spells like Misty step that some paladin's get or Shadow monks night crawler teleport.

I'm assuming that's the way this is set up they're not going to start in combat. They have to find each other first.

Nobody moved a goalpost you showed up at the goalpost with no kicker.

[kenGarff]

I think conjuration wizard would be very powerful solely because of teleportation and the ability to have uninterrupted conjurations via focused conjuration. I can see a conjurer teleporting and/or going to another plane ASAP to avoid needing to fight everyone else and then coming back. In my battle royale experience, the DMs made sure to restrict players from just teleporting to another plane to retain a certain amount of activity throughout the event.

Still, I think the best wizard schools will be abjurer and war wizard since even the likes of diviners have limited portent rolls while abjurers and war wizards are more consistent since battle royale isn't 1v1 so it's probably not a good idea to blow through your tricks by the first or second fight.

IMHO, the best lvl 20 wizards are abjurers, illusionist, and war wizards.

edit: Sorry to those that are talking about monk and its mobility. But since he OP wanted to know specifically about wizard schools, I just thought to talk about that more.
edit2: I think illusionist has some pretty crazy potentials in this game as well since illusory reality is on the table.

[stoutstien]

I brought up the monk because it might be a class you wouldn't be expecting to see in such a scenario.
Wizards and onion druids yes but high level monks aren't something you might be thinking about when you prepare your strategies. The more players on the field at a time the more interesting this gets.

I think what they do with contingency will be the largest factor.

[Dualswinger]

Illusionist Wizard.

Cast mirage arcane via wish. Turn everywhere into lava, turn your immediate area into a bunker. Use malleable illusions as needed to create safe zones. Load up on counterspells to try and stop any dispel magics you can see.

[kenGarff]

Illusionist Wizard.

Cast mirage arcane via wish. Turn everywhere into lava, turn your immediate area into a bunker. Use malleable illusions as needed to create safe zones. Load up on counterspells to try and stop any dispel magics you can see.

This could also be it. Though, is it allowed for your mirage-turned terrain to hurt your enemies via illusory reality?

[Dualswinger]

This could also be it. Though, is it allowed for your mirage-turned terrain to hurt your enemies via illusory reality?

The illusion provides for sensory feedback, including tactile.

There was a Crawford tweet confirming that any terrain created functions like it normally would. He specifically calls out being able to drown people in water created by this spell as an additional possible effect

[OvisCaedo]

Well, as I discovered the other day, there might be some odd technicalities when it comes to wizard class features and wish. As strictly written, many wizard school features cannot be used with wish-duplicated spells, because they tend to require casting a spell of X school, and your actual casting of wish is a conjuration spell.

Many DMs might rule that this is a silly technicality, though, and still allow features to work when the duplicated spell is of the proper school. I probably would, myself. I wonder what can break from this sort of thing...? The silliest thing that comes to mind to me right away is that, by this strict spell-school reading, Wishing for animated objects gives them all 30 temp HP, bringing tiny ones from 20 up to 50. But would you really want to wish for animated objects even then...? I don't think so.

[hwem]

The illusion provides for sensory feedback, including tactile.

There was a Crawford tweet confirming that any terrain created functions like it normally would. He specifically calls out being able to drown people in water created by this spell as an additional possible effect

That sounds monstrous.

[Dualswinger]

That sounds monstrous.

Mirage Arcane basically turns you into a minor Demigod for 10 days for the effect area. BOOM! Instant Palace. BOOM! Lake of fire! BOOM! Instant tunnel straight to the villain's lair. Illusionist being able to modify any of these things on the fly just makes it ludicrous. Build your wizard's tower over a chasm. When interlopers bother you, delete the floors. Or better yet, flood your lair with acid. It's potentially a more broken spell than Wish, and I realise that's a controversial statement.

[Trustypeaches]

Since it’s a magical effect I’d assume anti magic field works. I don’t know if bladesinger will be that good for a battle royale hats not just a 1v1 since bladesinging only lasts one minute. For something similar I could see a war wizard being really good though since it gives some good initiatives and defensive stuff.

Also, I’m still not too sold on conjurer being one of the better schools for a high level battle royale. Diviner, abjure and war wizard/bladesinger seem to stick out to me so far
Class features are not considered magical effects iirc.

Magical effects basically means Spells + Magic Items.

[hwem]

Thanks all. I will probably go illusionist since it seems like mirage arcane+illusory reality is still the way to go.

[Dualswinger]

Just a tip for if you do go up against a fellow arcane Mage, choose one of your spell mastery spells as silent image, cast a suit of plate mail around them and make it real. Shuts down their casting for a minute if it goes off. :)

[hwem]

Just a tip for if you do go up against a fellow arcane Mage, choose one of your spell mastery spells as silent image, cast a suit of plate mail around them and make it real. Shuts down their casting for a minute if it goes off. :)

This is fantastic!

[BigPixie]

Well, as I discovered the other day, there might be some odd technicalities when it comes to wizard class features and wish. As strictly written, many wizard school features cannot be used with wish-duplicated spells, because they tend to require casting a spell of X school, and your actual casting of wish is a conjuration spell.

Many DMs might rule that this is a silly technicality, though, and still allow features to work when the duplicated spell is of the proper school. I probably would, myself. I wonder what can break from this sort of thing...? The silliest thing that comes to mind to me right away is that, by this strict spell-school reading, Wishing for animated objects gives them all 30 temp HP, bringing tiny ones from 20 up to 50. But would you really want to wish for animated objects even then...? I don't think so.

Or wish for an Upcasted level 8 animate objects, then it might be worthwhile:smallsmile:

[Man_Over_Game]

Or wish for an Upcasted level 8 animate objects, then it might be worthwhile:smallsmile:

Spells that don't consume a spell slot are always cast at the lowest possible level.

Spells cast with Wish still use your Concentration.


The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect. Note that it does not say that "The spell's effects simply happen", but rather it states that the spell actually does happen.

In a way, you're converting Wish into the specific spell that you're looking for without spending any materials.

[Damon_Tor]

and with 20 damage per attack on 8 attacks at 400 feet of range

9 attacks. Don't forget Rapid Strike. I think an Eldritch Knight would be a better choice though. Having access to Haste, Shield, Counterspell and other essential spells is going to be more relevant than the Samurai's various features, especially in the context of a single battle where everyone gets to bring all their daily resources.

[Damon_Tor]

With the tabaxi monk I would argue unless they start in a giant white room with absolutely no terrain involved they will be a way to close a gap with a move speed that is borderline supersonic.

Are we assuming zero prep time? If the wizard has Phantom Steed he'll be able to move 200 feet every round without using his own actions at all. (This is still only ~23 mph). If he really feels like trolling the monk he can also cast Haste on the steed. Now he moves 600 feet every round and still has his actions (though not his concentration) available. Even a martial character built from the ground up to specialize in speed is easily beaten with a second level spell, and totally outclassed by adding a third level spell to it.

Or if there's not this sort of preparation time he can simply teleport away, pepper the battlefield with any number of spells with a range measured in miles or even "sight".

[BigPixie]

Spells that don't consume a spell slot are always cast at the lowest possible level.

Spells cast with Wish still use your Concentration.

Note that it does not say that "The spell's effects simply happen", but rather it states that the spell actually does happen.

In a way, you're converting Wish into the specific spell that you're looking for without spending any materials.

Sorry I was AFB. (That will teach me to look before I post:smallredface:)

[LudicSavant]

In practice, battle royales often have a sort of self-balancing aspect; foes that are more threatening get ganged up on.

Incidentally, here's a fun puzzle about Wizard duels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmkCS5eA4f8

[Damon_Tor]

In practice, battle royales often have a sort of self-balancing aspect; foes that are more threatening get ganged up on.

Incidentally, here's a fun puzzle about Wizard duels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmkCS5eA4f8

Which is why what's most likely to happen here is that everyone with nigh-perfect protection spells will cast them on themselves and wait while everyone who doesn't will spend their time killing each other. Everyone who has disintegrate also has the spells they could use to protect themselves, and it wouldn't make tactical sense for them to try to and dislodge another caster from their protection when doing so opens them up to being filled with arrows.

The wizard and the bard can keep themselves safe from harm basically forever. Either can cast Forcecage around themselves and use the time it bought them to cast Tiny Hut. The Tiny Hut offers them a perfect place to rain arrows down on the rest of the battlefield: it gives them advantage on every shot because it's opaque from the exterior and it makes them virtually immune to attacks from outside the hut.

The most obvious counter to this is to cast Dispel Magic or Disintegrate on the hut, at which point the wizard/bard simply casts another Forcecage and begins to recast Tiny Hut from inside it. Forcecage can't be dispelled, making disintegrate the only solution. Tiny Hut is cast as a ritual, so it doesn't need a spell slot; whoever is attempting to dislodge the wizard/bard will inevitably run out of spell slots first. An attempt to Counterspell the Forcecage can be met with a counterspell of your own.

The only good solution here is an Antimagic Field, which would allow you to get into the Wizard's hut/cage and beat them to death with a hammer. Even better, if you do this when he's in the Force Cage, you could use the Antimagic Field to get into the cage, release your concentration on the AMF, and now the Wizard is trapped inside the Forcecage with you. If you're a Cleric, this is a great place to be: you have more HP, more armor and better weapons than the Wizard, and you're now safe from all the rest of the rabble, free to bludgeon him to death in relative peace.

But you'll notice there is no martial solution to this problem: you need another spellcaster, and a spellcaster with level 8 spells at that, to counter this strategy.