DND 3.5 FIghter Build Help! [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

MeimuHakurei

2019-03-21, 07:39 PM

In my party we just finished the 3.5 Temple of Elemental Evil. I am an 8th level Fighter. I have the feats combat reflexes, weapon focus(heavy mace&longsword), weapon specialization (heavy mace &longsword), improved initiative, power attack, cleave, and great cleave. I know that being this high of a level of Fighter is bad, but I cannot change that now. We are going to play these characters through level 20. I was thinkin about becoming an Occult Slayer. The only issue is that I am running into problems with my AC now. I have +3 plate mail and a +3 medium shield. My AC is 28, but I am beginning to become less effective as a tank, and becoming less and less competent as a party member. All of the magic-esque characters are getting good spells and becoming stout. I am becoming less effective. I have a +3 sword called Khazid'hea which becomes +6 against fire creatures. What can I do to make my character effective again? I would prefer PrCs or multiclassing. My DM is not a big fan of selling us magic. We have to find all of ours. I also have a 20 strength score because I have a pair of gauntlets of Ogre power.

Thanks,

Can you retrain your feats? You should consider getting the standard charger pack of Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper and Leap Attack - if your AC is no longer able to reliably hold out against enemies, just ditch it entirely - there's no difference between 28 and 0 AC if the enemies hit you on a 2 regardless. In turn, you'll be able to completely smash anything you attack into paste.

AnimeTheCat

2019-03-21, 07:53 PM

What areas do you feel you are most lacking in? Are you able to successfully position to reliably attract the enemies attention, thus giving allies the chance to use their spells and abilities to the greatest degree of effectiveness? Are you able to withstand the attacks you're receiving? Are you not putting out enough damage to feel relevant during combat? Are you feeling left out during non-combat encounters?

Where you're feeling weakness in relation to the party is important for those who would help you correct your path to what would be more optimal and in-line with what you, and your party, want and need.

Anthrowhale

2019-03-21, 08:46 PM

I'd second Divine Crusader, taking Domination or Protection then using Hospitaler to advance spellcasting with full BAB. Psychic Reformation would allow you to reset feats and skills as necessary. You could take apprentice[spellcaster] for UMD, and then take Channel Charge to turn Divine Crusader slots into any spell.

Another approach is to get yourself PAOed into something nasty like a war troll on a semi-permanent basis and use the high natural armor and strength to keep tanking.

Zaq

2019-03-21, 09:14 PM

8 levels of fighter is bad, but if you've already sunk that cost, a single additional level will get you access to the Zhentarim Soldier (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) feature, letting you use Intimidate to demoralize as a swift action instead of a standard action. Unlike most fighter ACFs and substitution levels, it doesn't cost a bonus feat. It does cost taking a level in fighter instead of in something better, but action economy is good. Toss on Imperious Command (a feat from Drow of the Underdark) and you can rob an opponent of their whole turn with just a swift action, and that's actually pretty meaningful in terms of making yourself stay relevant. (Don't be too attention-hogging with that or else many GMs will get all petty and throw a million fear-immune enemies at you, but it's an excellent trick regardless.)

What are your skills right now, anyway? Taking a PrC is a good choice, but a lot of them are gated behind skill prereqs, so knowing what you've got can help us determine what you qualify for right away.

If you have access to Tome of Battle, stapling levels in warblade or crusader onto a martial build is never a bad idea. You'd even get half credit for your fighter levels, letting you access level 3 maneuvers (which normally take five class levels) right away. (This isn't unique to fighter levels—levels in any non-ToB class count for half—but still, it means you're not starting from zero.)

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2019-03-21, 09:32 PM

What are your ability scores? Could you go TWF + Gloves of the Balanced Hand (MIC) + Oversized TWF (CV) + Three Mountains (CW)? In that case get your sword reforged into a heavy mace, or hire an NPC Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) to Dispel Magic it (rendering it temporarily nonmagical) and then Polymorph Any Object it into a heavy mace.

Absolutely retrain some of those feats, whether via PH2 Chapter 8, or just hiring an NPC Psion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) to Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) you. At the very least you'll want to swap one set of weapon focus/specialization for greater weapon focus and melee weapon mastery (PH2). If neither of those retraining options are available, take a level of Warblade and you'll gain the ability to swap them to different weapons, to have specialization for a melee weapon and a ranged weapon.

Even if you can't buy magic items, you can still have items commissioned or upgrade existing items. If you go the TWF route you can get Animated added to your shield.

Take Leadership and get a Cleric cohort. He should have Divine Spell Power (CD), all the item creation feats, a few Lesser Metamagic Rods of Extend, and a standard Strand of Prayer Beads (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#strandofPrayerBeads) which has the Bead of Smiting removed (which per the 3.5 DMG is only 9,000 gp total for that item with the beads of healing and karma). He can use the rods and Bead of Karma to put Magic Vestment on your armor and shield every day, along with Greater Magic Weapon on your weapon. Weapons and armor should only be +1 with special abilities stacked on anyway, using spells to improve them is absurdly cheap. At your current level, assuming the cohort is 6th level, he can Divine Spell Power for +3 or even +4 reliably (+2 synergy for Kn: Religion, maybe make him an Illumian with Vaul for another +2, Circlet of Persuasion adds +3, Cha 14 is easy to get, 16 is doable, and Eagle's Splendor is a thing, and he can take ten on the check), and with +4 from the Bead of Karma on the Strand of Prayer Beads, he'll be buffing your armor to a +3 enhancement with a 24+ hour duration and your weapon with an equal bonus. In just a few levels it increases to a +4 enhancement from those spells. If he has a few pearls of power he can buff other party members' equipment as well. If you can't get your gear modified, just have him buff himself and other party members and cast Shield of Faith (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shieldOfFaith.htm) on you when a fight starts.

As for your own level build, consider taking Warblade or Crusader, or even retraining some of your current levels into it. That should give you maneuvers and stances that will make you feel more relevant without going outside of what's fitting for your character. If you have a decent Wis score you could retrain some Fighter levels into Cleric and use a prestige class to advance its spellcasting. Otherwise taking Divine Crusader and swapping feats for the TWF Three Mountains build is likely your best bet.

Eldariel

2019-03-22, 12:57 AM

What sources are you working with? What's your alignment?

Anyways, you aren't at the Occult Slayer point yet. Sadly, that class just helps you a bit to withstand magic; you need to have your martial stuff covered before it's any good. And you do not. Not at all. So focus on getting your martial stuff in order first; you need to be able to dish out damage, block enemies and take hits.

Only 18 base Strength on this level is a bit of a bummer; you could start with 18 and be at 20 from level-ups already (or start at 22 as an Orc and be up to 24). All future level-ups to Strength. Get a two-handed weapon; you can either get Improved Buckler Defense and a Buckler, or just get an Animated Shield. Your options include multiclassing into some fast casting progression class (the mentioned Divine Crusader, Suel Arcanamach [Complete Arcane], Ur-Priest [Complete Divine] or similar), multiclassing with other martial classes. Barbarian would add a fair bit of power if you picked it up alongside the Extra Rage-feat [Complete Warrior] and Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) - second level would add Improved Trip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) regardless of the prerequisites. Tome of Battle classes would add a lot of power straight out of the gate too; Warblade or Crusader would be a really good dip right about now (you get 3rd level maneuvers straight out of the gate). Stormguard Warrior [Tome of Battle] would also allow turbocharging your second round damage, particularly if you picked up TWF (you can TWF with Armor Spikes or Unarmed Strike plus your weapon).

Everything would be better with a two-handed reach weapon, Power Attack and Improved Trip/Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) (enemies being unable to reach you or your allies is the best tanking). Or if you want to keep going one-handed, Kusari-Gama [DMG] and Spinning Sword [Secrets of Sarlona] are good one-handed reach weapons that can trip.
Either way, Complete Warrior and PHBII have some decent feat chains for a Fighter too: the tactical feats Shock Trooper, Combat Brute and Elusive Target are quite good as are the weapon styles Three Mountains and High Sword Low Axe. PHBII Weapon Mastery line makes the Weapon Focus feats not entirely a waste of time; Melee Weapon Mastery is a decent feat particularly with a two-hander and Power Attack, and Weapon Supremacy is actually very good (but really late and really expensive).

Biffoniacus covered the key options for improving your already selected options: PHBII has retraining rules and Psionics offer Psychic Reformation (at worst you can try to get a Scroll of Limited Wish and use that to cast Psychic Reformation). Dungeoncrasher [Dungeonscape] and Zhentarim Fighter [Champions of Valor Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a9)] are good improvements onto the basic Fighter and Dead Levels replacements (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a9) give you a bit of extra oomph at no cost (I recommend getting good at breaking stuff, particularly with Dungeoncrasher you get significant bonuses).

TravisEnochs

2019-03-22, 07:23 PM

My feats in order are: power attack, cleave, great cleave, weapon focus heavy mace, weapon specialization heavy mace, weapon focus longsword, weapon specialization longsword, combat refflexes, and improved iniative

as far as stats i have 18 strength, 15 dexterity, 13 constitution, 8 intelligence, 10 wisdom, and 10 charisma.

I am Lawful Good and I would prefer to become as tanky/ high damage. My wisdom is pretty low so spellcasting prestiges will not really work for me. I am a human. My DM will not allow me to go back and change anything about my character either since we have already done an entire module. My deity is St. Cuthbert.

As far as content pretty much any 3.5 official DnD books are available to me

I'll see what I can come up with, could I get as much information about your character as possible? Stats, feats (in order), alignment, preferences, and finally, what content is available for you. Fighter 8 isn't good, but you could do worse.

TravisEnochs

2019-03-22, 07:29 PM

The issue is that my DM does not really allow us to purchase magic items minus basic scrolls/ potions. My DM also does not like psionics, nor does he like sorcerers.

]AC is not really worth it to sink money into, get miss chance, like a cloak of displacement (minor).

One thing you can do is multiclass into something like a psion or Ardent.

Alternativel.. You s could PrC into Divine Crusader[/URL] Pretty sweet if you ask me.[/QUOTE]

TravisEnochs

2019-03-22, 07:34 PM

So my DM will not allow me to retrain my feats sadly, except maybe the excess weapon focus/ specialization. :(. But one thing I was thinking about (in regards to what you were saying about AC not really being reliable against enemies) was maybe going the dual wield route. Right now I can dish out about 32 damage a round on average. If I were to dual wield I could double that theoretically. There is also a feat called power lunge that allows me to deal double damage, but I open up an attack of opportunity. I am not sure how high I should value that attack of opportunity if I could also on median deal about 128 damage a round.

Can you retrain your feats? You should consider getting the standard charger pack of Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper and Leap Attack - if your AC is no longer able to reliably hold out against enemies, just ditch it entirely - there's no difference between 28 and 0 AC if the enemies hit you on a 2 regardless. In turn, you'll be able to completely smash anything you attack into paste.

TravisEnochs

2019-03-22, 07:38 PM

Right now I am lacking highly in all those regards. Last encounter I was dropped in the first round and became cumbersome the rest of the battle, requiring our druid to waste a couple rounds reviving me. I also do not put put as much damage as I would like. I am pondering maybe dual wielding, if I am getting hit already, to deal double my usual damage a round (32). During non-combat encounters I am not much help, but that really does not bother me too much. We have a cleric, a druid, and a bard/wizard. So that area is pretty stacked and does not need my help with talking/ solving puzzles via magic.

What areas do you feel you are most lacking in? Are you able to successfully position to reliably attract the enemies attention, thus giving allies the chance to use their spells and abilities to the greatest degree of effectiveness? Are you able to withstand the attacks you're receiving? Are you not putting out enough damage to feel relevant during combat? Are you feeling left out during non-combat encounters?

Where you're feeling weakness in relation to the party is important for those who would help you correct your path to what would be more optimal and in-line with what you, and your party, want and need.

TravisEnochs

2019-03-22, 08:07 PM

My DM would not allow me to enchant my shield with animate. He also did not allow me to retrain feats. In our compaign there is not an opportunity to find NPC's. That is my biggest issue. I do not really have many options. My DM has rejected most of the prestige class ideas everyone has presented minus the Occult slayer, but we are fighting giants so it is not very relevant. My wisdom score is a 10 as well, so casting magic is not really in the realm of possibilities. I am kind of stuck. Continuing levels in the Fighter is pointless at this point because I will keep falling behind compared to my party. Should I just take the Occult Slayer even if it will not be great? The detect magic at will at the very least would save my party a few spells on detect magic.

]What are your ability scores? Could you go TWF + Gloves of the Balanced Hand (MIC) + Oversized TWF (CV) + Three Mountains (CW)? In that case get your sword reforged into a heavy mace, or hire an NPC Wizard[/URL] to Dispel Magic it (rendering it temporarily nonmagical) and then Polymorph Any Object it into a heavy mace.

Absolutely retrain some of those feats, whether via PH2 Chapter 8, or just hiring an NPC Psion Psychic Reformation[/URL] you. At the very least you'll want to swap one set of weapon focus/specialization for greater weapon focus and melee weapon mastery (PH2). If neither of those retraining options are available, take a level of Warblade and you'll gain the ability to swap them to different weapons, to have specialization for a melee weapon and a ranged weapon.

Even if you can't buy magic items, you can still have items commissioned or upgrade existing items. If you go the TWF route you can get Animated added to your shield.

Take Leadership and get a Cleric cohort. He should have Divine Spell Power (CD), all the item creation feats, a few Lesser Metamagic Rods of Extend, and a standard Strand of Prayer Beads[/URL] which has the Bead of Smiting removed (which per the 3.5 DMG is only 9,000 gp total for that item with the beads of healing and karma). He can use the rods and Bead of Karma to put Magic Vestment on your armor and shield every day, along with Greater Magic Weapon on your weapon. Weapons and armor should only be +1 with special abilities stacked on anyway, using spells to improve them is absurdly cheap. At your current level, assuming the cohort is 6th level, he can Divine Spell Power for +3 or even +4 reliably (+2 synergy for Kn: Religion, maybe make him an Illumian with Vaul for another +2, Circlet of Persuasion adds +3, Cha 14 is easy to get, 16 is doable, and Eagle's Splendor is a thing, and he can take ten on the check), and with +4 from the Bead of Karma on the Strand of Prayer Beads, he'll be buffing your armor to a +3 enhancement with a 24+ hour duration and your weapon with an equal bonus. In just a few levels it increases to a +4 enhancement from those spells. If he has a few pearls of power he can buff other party members' equipment as well. If you can't get your gear modified, just have him buff himself and other party members and cast on you when a fight starts.

As for your own level build, consider taking Warblade or Crusader, or even retraining some of your current levels into it. That should give you maneuvers and stances that will make you feel more relevant without going outside of what's fitting for your character. If you have a decent Wis score you could retrain some Fighter levels into Cleric and use a prestige class to advance its spellcasting. Otherwise taking Divine Crusader and swapping feats for the TWF Three Mountains build is likely your best bet.[/QUOTE]

ngilop

2019-03-22, 08:29 PM

You are at the level that mundane just is falling behind further and further. Getting occult slayer just to get detect magic at will is kinda not smart, your casters should have that AND read magic in spades.

Your best bet with the stats you have would either be best put into going crusader or warblade ( crusader being the better choice for what you want to do) Crusader (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/crusader/) is going to get you as close to a tank as you can think of for D&D 3.5 giving you ways to make enemies want to attack you, negate damage and heal yourself while dealing damage as well as some pretty good bonus damage strikes.

Again as I said in my first post AC becomes almost meaningless after like level 7. Its just everything hits unless you sink all your gold into upping your AC, but then you cannot do much of anything else. Getting a minor cloak of displacement for the continuous 20% miss chance is going to save your behind more than trying to get 43 AC at level 10. Having an AC in the mid 20s through mid and the cloak is going to do you good. Really an AC of 28 at level 7 is pretty good, hwo things are capable of hitting you on a 2 and above is not making much sense to me not too many things have an attack bonus of +26 that I can think of at CR 7.

How did you go down in 1 round if I might ask? Even that seems hard to do unless one makes an egregious tactical error ( run into the group of enemies with no support) How are you not killing things. most CR 7 have like 120 or so HP, you should be downing the majority in 1 round worth of attacks.

Anthrowhale

2019-03-22, 08:38 PM

What about Polymorph Any Object[War Troll]? For the modest cost of 1.2k gp, you can pay a 15th level wizard to give you much more AC/Strength/Constitution. The dazing Blow attack they get is also pretty effective, particularly if you start working towards a tripper build.

TravisEnochs

2019-03-22, 10:10 PM

We encountered a frost giant riding a mastodon... I walked up being the tank and got thrashed while everyone else emptied their spells on it.

You are at the level that mundane just is falling behind further and further. Getting occult slayer just to get detect magic at will is kinda not smart, your casters should have that AND read magic in spades.

Your best bet with the stats you have would either be best put into going crusader or warblade ( crusader being the better choice for what you want to do) Crusader[/URL] is going to get you as close to a tank as you can think of for D&D 3.5 giving you ways to make enemies want to attack you, negate damage and heal yourself while dealing damage as well as some pretty good bonus damage strikes.

Again as I said in my first post AC becomes almost meaningless after like level 7. Its just everything hits unless you sink all your gold into upping your AC, but then you cannot do much of anything else. Getting a minor cloak of displacement for the continuous 20% miss chance is going to save your behind more than trying to get 43 AC at level 10. Having an AC in the mid 20s through mid and the cloak is going to do you good. Really an AC of 28 at level 7 is pretty good, hwo things are capable of hitting you on a 2 and above is not making much sense to me not too many things have an attack bonus of +26 that I can think of at CR 7.

How did you go down in 1 round if I might ask? Even that seems hard to do unless one makes an egregious tactical error ( run into the group of enemies with no support) How are you not killing things. most CR 7 have like 120 or so HP, you should be downing the majority in 1 round worth of attacks.

TravisEnochs

2019-03-22, 10:12 PM

In the campaign we are in there are no NPC's or mercenaries we could hire to do something like that for us

What about Polymorph Any Object[War Troll]? For the modest cost of 1.2k gp, you can pay a 15th level wizard to give you much more AC/Strength/Constitution. The dazing Blow attack they get is also pretty effective, particularly if you start working towards a tripper build.

Anthrowhale

2019-03-22, 10:38 PM

In the campaign we are in there are no NPC's or mercenaries we could hire to do something like that for us

Maybe a scroll?

TravisEnochs

2019-03-22, 10:47 PM

Would it be a permanent effect?

Maybe a scroll?

Falontani

2019-03-22, 11:03 PM

Stat

Base

Final

Strength

18

18

Dexterity

15

16

Constitution

13

14

Intelligence

8

8

Wisdom

10

10

Charisma

10

11

Level

Class

Base Attack Bonus

Fort Save

Ref Save

Will Save

Skills

Feats

Class Features

1st

Fighter

+1

+2

+0

+0

Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave

2nd

Fighter

+2

+3

+0

+0

Weapon Focus: Heavy Mace

3rd

Fighter

+3

+3

+1

+1

Weapon Focus: Longsword

4th

Fighter

+4

+4

+1

+1

Weapon Specialization: Heavy Mace

5th

Fighter

+5

+4

+1

+1

6th

Fighter

+6

+5

+2

+2

Weapon Specialization: Longsword, Combat Reflexes

7th

Fighter

+7

+5

+2

+2

8th

Fighter

+8

+6

+2

+2

Improved Initiative

9th

Warblade

+9

+8

+2

+2

+5 Intimidate

Nymph’s Kiss

Weapon Aptitude, Battle Clarity

10th

Crusader

+10

+10

+2

+2

+10 Intimidate

Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5

11th

Crusader

+11

+11

+2

+2

+14 Intimidate, Craft Alchemy +1

Indomitable Soul

12th

Crusader

+12

+11

+3

+3

+15 Intimidate, Craft Alchemy +5

Servant of the Heavens

Zealous Surge

13th

Sword of Righteousness

+13

+13

+3

+5

+15 Intimidate, Craft Alchemy +10

Nimbus of Light

14th

Sword of Righteousness

+14

+14

+3

+6

+15 Intimidate, Craft Alchemy +15

Stigmata

15th

Soulborn

+15

+16

+3

+6

+15 Intimidate, Craft Alchemy +15, Spellcraft +3

Heroic Spirit

Aura, Smite Opposition

16th

Heir of Syberies

+15

+18

+5

+8

+15 Intimidate, Craft Alchemy +15, Spellcraft +3, Knowledge Arcana +3

Action Surge(B)

Additional Action Points

17th

Heir of Syberies

+16

+19

+6

+9

+16 Intimidate, Craft Alchemy +15, Spellcraft +3, Knowledge Arcana +5

Ancestral Relic(B)

Mind Blank 1/day

18th

Heir of Syberies

+17

+19

+6

+9

Mark of the Dauntless(B)

Mind Blank 2/day

19th

Anointed Knight

+17

+21

+6

+11

Anoint Self: Unbroken Flesh

20th

Anointed Knight

+18

+22

+6

+12

Anoint Weapon: Sentience

Immediately we take a level of warblade from Tome of Battle. This allows you to retrain your weapon focus/weapon specialization in either longsword or heavy mace into a different weapon. I suggest Spiked Armor, Spiked Gauntlet, or something else that you can use if you are disarmed of your actual weapon. If you can get a single feat extra you could take an exotic weapon proficiency if you so chose, however I do not plan for that. We take Nymph's Kiss so that we actually get enough skill points to do things. We begin maxing out intimidate, however truly you can choose any skill you would like as long as its a class skill through the majority of those levels.
Next we take Crusader from Tome of Battle, because it sounds exactly like what your character is trying to do. Between warblade and crusader you will be doing a lot better in combat. Choose your maneuvers wisely! Getting access to healing and things like iron guard's glare will help you in being a better tank.

We now hop into Sword of Righteousness from Book of Exalted Deeds. This 3 level class gives 2 good saves, full bab, 4+int mod skills, and a bonus exalted feat each level. I notice that you are human with no way to see in the dark nor fight in the dark, so Nimbus of Light allows you to fight in the dark, and qualifies you for Stigmata. Stigmata gives you the ability to take con damage to heal yourself or others, which is never a bad thing to have access to.

Next up is Soulborn from Magic of Incarnum. This level is specifically for class skill access, however I chose the most thematic class I could, instead of just choosing Hexblade or Duskblade. Soulborn gives you an aura of a paladin, which puts you closer to a Blessed Warrior theme, and you get a 1/day +1 damage against chaotic or evil creatures. Its pretty much nothing, but it isn't nothing.

Now we go to the part that I hope your DM does not Veto: Heir of Siberys from Eberron Campaign Setting. Usually dragonmarks require you to be the correct race (which you are) and have be of the correct mercantile house (which you probably are not). Heir of Siberys does not have this requirement. At level 1 with it you will have 5 action points. If your DM uses action points from eberron campaign setting you can use them whenever you make a d20 roll, you roll 3d6, take the highest of the d6 results, and add it to your d20 roll. If your DM does not allow the base action points you do get a different use from a feat you take (as a free bonus feat) which allows you to spend 2 of them to gain a free move action or a free standard action. These action points do not get restored on a per day basis, only a per level basis, so it is not at all powerful. Next level we get Mind Blank 1/day which grants you immunity to all mind affecting effects and divinations all day. It is a very powerful immunity and your CL is 15, which is still dispellable so your DM shouldn't have too many problems with it. Its also later than your allies should gain access to the same spell. At this level we also get Ancestral Relic. This allows you to retreat to your church and sacrifice any items of monetary value or just money in exchange to enchant your weapon. You will need to talk to your DM to see if Khazadea will work as your ancestral relic.
Final level here we get another use allowing you to protect yourself and another person with Mind Blank, but you also get immunity to Daze and Stun. This makes you immune to the vast majority of things that will eat your actions (there are still some out there).

Finally we drop into Anointed Knight. Anointed Knight gives you DR 3/- which is a fairly decent protection, and as a capstone you grant Khazadea true sentience. This is also from Book of Exalted Deeds. This makes you a very competent and thematic Divine Warrior type.

I hope this all works for you, and I hope that you enjoy the themes here.

ngilop

2019-03-22, 11:26 PM

Ahh, that explains a lot, basically what you did was try to solo a boss encounter a frost giant riding a mastodon is like a CR 11 (maybe CR 10) encounter. A frost giant has a attack bonus of +18, so it hits you on a 10 or above that is not really 'useless AC' with the mastodon you should have taken about 65 to 90 damage, unless there were a couple crits

also, there is no 'tanking' in D&D, so if you keep trying to do that. you are going to get your butt handed to you the same way repeatedly

as for war troll, it will be permanent once cast due to how similar being human is compared to troll. It gives you massive stat boosts (+18 to Con means 9 more hp per level) and a pretty sweet set of abilities in regeneration 9 (acid) scent, dazing blow con based, and spell resistance 20

But...

Race isn't going to do anything for you if you keep trying to face tank everything and keep relying on a pretty useless stat (Armor Class) as your only means of defense. You should aim to keep your AC at about the your level +11-13. That way thinks have a 50/50 chance (if they are equal CR) to hit you. Then the 20% miss chance from a minor cloak of displacement comes into effect and 20% of the attacks that hit you, no longer do. SO you end up only taking about 40% of the attacks which is decent. Now.. factor in what you could be doing with crusader, add in dazing blow and regen and POW.. now you are the tank you wanted to be.

Take a look at this (unfinished) Crusader guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?181655-Spirit-of-Steel-The-Crusader-s-Handbook-WIP) before you go making any decisions about what to level in whether it be prestige or base (Crusader bar none is going to be the best thing you can do) You want to focus on Devoted SPirit and Stone Dragon more than White Raven since you have mostly casters, since you want to have a sword and board take a look at the shield counter line of maneuvers, you negate an attack with a successful shield bash..pretty tanky if you ask me.

Also, get your caster groupmates to actually use some spells on you. Sounds like you are 100% mundane and they are not using any spells to help you with buffs in any way. This has been highlighted for emphasis. They should be casting spells like energy resistance (Acid) as well as other spells to shore up your weaknsesses

my suggestion would be to go into Crusader for the next 12 levels, Id pick up Martial Maneuver and pick shadow jump for some once a combat tactical teleportation

Eldariel

2019-03-23, 04:31 AM

Okay, for retraining, Scroll of Limited Wish to replicate Psychic Reformation is probably your best bet. This is an arcane Wizard-way of gaining access to Psychic Reformation, which allows repicking your feats. It would be quite expensive (and thus the DM would be more likely to allow it) but certainly worth your while. If you can't access that, however...

Warblade [Tome of Battle] would be my pick. They get Weapon Aptitude, which allows switching the weapons your Weapon Focus-feats apply to. In this case, you have most of the feats required for Hammer and Anvil style from Complete Warrior, so you could pick up Two-Weapon Fighting, switch your Heavy Mace-focus for Warhammer-focus and Longsword-focus for Battleaxe-focus. You'd just need to pick Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Sunder and then you'd qualify for Anvil and Thunder.

Given you have Combat Reflexes already, however, High Sword Low Axe would be even better. We're talking a bit of a long con here but with your Int and alignment (unless you could fall to Neutral Good and go Barbarian, which would be much better), the only way to go that route would be to take two levels of Monk (Passive Way (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#passiveWay)) giving you Improved Trip on level 2 (don't mind anything else Monk gives you; Improved Unarmed Strike is nice but you aren't going to want to use any of the other class features), and then enter Warblade while picking up Two-Weapon Fighting and on level 12, High Sword Low Axe. That style feat is really nice and Warblade maneuvers shore up the issues with getting full attacks after movement. Then you could go on to pick up Melee Weapon Mastery and whatever.

Either way, Warblade is the best way to go. Figure out some way to make use of your two sets of Weapon Focus (High Sword Low Axe and Hammer and Anvil are the only options that occur to me), go from there. You definitely need more numbers but that comes with the better classes. Making the most of the resources you have seems key.

Anthrowhale

2019-03-23, 06:55 AM

Would it be a permanent effect?

By default, it would be permanent until dispelled with a caster level of 15 and cost 3k gp. You can pay more to get a higher caster level. See here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm): "Same kingdom, same class, same intelligence".

Note that you gain the extraordinary special attacks (i.e. dazing blow) but not the extraordinary special abilities (i.e.regeneration). You also do not get additional hit points from the high Con. It works out as AC+15, melee attack+5, ranged attack+1, damage+7.5 (single handed) or damage+11.5(two-handed), Fort+8, Refl+1, Large Size, Move+10, Initiative+1, Dazing Blow, and of course you are a troll with all the associated NPC interaction consequences.

While this is a useful combat boost, the warblade/crusader advice is quite relevant. Also, you can't really become a conventional tripper due to low intelligence, but Combat Reflexes + Dazing Blow + large size + a reach weapon would give you a nontrivial degree of enemy movement control.

Edit: I wanted to suggest a change of strategy as well. Instead of immediately walking up to the bad guys, just step in front of your allies and wait for the bad guys to come to you. Given the many spellcasters in your party, all you have to do for a party win in many cases is keep them safe from melee attack. This less aggressive approach pairs well with ranged attacks in the first round and/or dazing blow+reach while also having defensive benefits.

Eldariel

2019-03-23, 08:12 AM

While this is a useful combat boost, the warblade/crusader advice is quite relevant. Also, you can't really become a conventional tripper due to low intelligence, but Combat Reflexes + Dazing Blow + large size + a reach weapon would give you a nontrivial degree of enemy movement control.

There are two ways around this: Monk-levels (Passive Way) or Barbarian-levels (Wolf totem). Two levels in either case. With Lawful alignment, Barbie is off the table so Monk is pretty much the only real option but not that terrible (though losing BAB on a character with already middling offense does hurt).

Anthrowhale

2019-03-23, 08:54 AM

There are two ways around this: Monk-levels (Passive Way) or Barbarian-levels (Wolf totem). Two levels in either case. With Lawful alignment, Barbie is off the table so Monk is pretty much the only real option but not that terrible (though losing BAB on a character with already middling offense does hurt).

Good point. That would also allow picking up Knockdown at level 12. Knockdown + Dazing Blow + Improved Trip + Large + Reach would make for fairly substantial battlefield control. Adding in Improved Bull Rush + Knockback makes it even better.

Incidentally, the War Troll Dazing Blow seems to work even with ranged weapons. Conventionally this is a longbow, but you might want to pick up Quickdraw anyways to swap between weapons, and then TWF+Rapid Shot to maximize applications of Dazing Blow at range. Ranger 2 naturally assists this and complements Monk 2 in that Evasion would work more reliably.

AnimeTheCat

2019-03-23, 09:39 AM

If your DM is being stingy with retraining/character restructuring, it might be time to either retire the old character and come in new, or go out with a blaze of glory and come in new. It will be easier than trying to shoehorn in something stronger onto a suboptimal chassis. Basically you're trying to take a lawnmower engine out and replace it with a v6 but your parents arent letting you actualy remove the lawnmower engine so you can only replace bits and pieces of it to try and make it look as close as possible.

TravisEnochs

2019-03-23, 04:21 PM

Eldariel

2019-03-23, 04:50 PM

That makes the most sense honestly. My options are super limited. I will see if I can retire my character, if not I will go out in a blaze of glory. What would be an optimal build (starting from scratch no magic weapons/items) for my new character if I was able to do this. He would be level 9. I would like to be high damage output, and fairly stout as far as AC, and having the ability to be tanky. What are your thoughts on dwarven defender? I would be open to some spell casting integrated, since I would have new ability scores.

Dwarven Defender is terrible. It gives you very little over all those levels: Defensive Stance prevents movement meaning anything with more reach than you can just wail at you while you can't hit back. Or walk around you and hit everyone else that you're trying to protect. It also requires terrible feats to enter. Straight Fighter is largely at least competitive and often just better - and it's a pretty terrible option too. Really, 3.5 has no good prestige classes for non-Barbarian warriors save perhaps Dervish, and that's not very good for tanking due to going fairly poorly with reach weapons and requiring lots of moving around (though it does get very high AC and respectable damage fairly easily - just use a two-handed weapon and fight defensively and Power Attack, dumping the Dervish Dance bonuses into it). If you want a Dwarven Defender, play a straight Cleric instead. That class does what a defensive Dwarf should be doing: takes hits like nobody's business, whacks face, goes to town.

Far as a defensive build on these levels with no magic items, you can't beat a Cleric/Druid. Cleric can overcome lacking magic items with relatively little trouble (and craft whatever he wants), can buff his items and himself with magic to get the desired numbers, not to mention grow big and make it hard for enemies to get to you (what's more efficient than avoiding hits with AC? Preventing enemy from getting in range to deliver them in the first place). And he can of course just cast spells to attack enemies' weak points (Plane Shift that dumb enemy brute to Positive Energy Plane or whatever, for example; no need to slug it out). Cleric can cast Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon to ensure that his non-magical equipment keeps up enhancement-wise, and then buff themself with Magic Circle Against Evil & al. and in combat, cast Divine Power or Righteous Might, perhaps Quicken Divine Favor, and go to town. Wield a reach weapon (if you have Dex and Int in addition to Wis and Str, you can even get Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip and trip enemies to hell without them ever getting a shot at attacking a party member), get attacks on enemies approaching you, get Improved Buckler Defense if you want a shield and can't get Animated Shield (or just get Craft Magic Arms & Armor and craft your own Animated Shield - probably a better option since you can then craft a +1 Spell-storing Reach Weapon Of Choice á la Guisarme/Spiked Chain/Longspear/whatever else you end up using), pump up your numbers and be awesome.

Druid is a bit easier, even. Get a Wild Dragonhide Fullplate, Wildshape into...anything (Fleshraker is the classic but simple Tiger/Brown Bear/Dire Bear/Dire Lion/Dire Wolf/etc. are great options too), put a Barding on your animal companion, cast Greater Magic Fang on all your natural attacks and use Barkskin to go to town. Both of them can also access Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell if you want substantially higher numbers and more power but those are probably going to break what sounds to be a fairly low-powered game so I do recommend you stick to the basics (which are still more than sufficient).

Say, a level 9 Human Cleric:
Heavy Shield, Mithril Fullplate, 14 Dex. Magic Circle against Evil active (it lasts for 1½ hours so a fair bet you can keep it active when in hostile territory), Magic Vestment on both armor and shield. Gets 10 + 2 Dex + 2 Deflection + 10 Armor + 4 Shield = 28 AC without actually having any magic items. Could use Imbue with Spell Ability to share Shield Other with something from e.g. Planar Ally or some calling or whatever to halve damage to self.

In combat: Righteous Might raises your AC to 29 (+2 Natural Armor, -1 Size) and gives you DR 3/Evil (and extra HP and whatever). Quicken Divine Favor, get +3/+3 and your attacks are on par with any Fighter of this level. You could also cast Spikes on a Club or something. Or two-hand something if you have an animated shield. You could also cast Divine Power to get a lot of temporary HP, +6 Strength and some extra BAB.

Anyways, say you have 16 base strength. Righteous Might raises it to 20. Divine Favor gives you +3/+3 on top of it and you've got a +2 weapon. Power Attack is the only feat you really want for hitting hard though e.g. Improved Trip is nice too. All of this is with zero magic items. If you cast Divine Power too, you've got 26 Strength (two-hand that for 2d6+12 Str+2 Weapon) and the ability to hit for a lot.

You can also access Polymorph-spells through e.g. Spell-domain if desired and those give you ridiculous boosts to strength, dex and con and a ton of natural armor if you want to turbocharge your stats. Druid gets those natively; it's not hard for a Druid to get 30 AC on this level (+1 Wild Fullplate is +9, Fleshraker has 20 base, Barkskin for +4 more for a total of 33 AC for example). And his animal companion can easily hit similar numbers. So a Druid is two tanks right out of the box and also full casting.

If you don't want casting, of course, you can also work a Fighter/Barbarian-build reasonably but that takes a lot more effort and suffers a lot more from lacking specific magic items (Druid and Cleric can just cast Air Walk to fly, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful/Snake's Swiftness for Haste attacks, buffs to pump their weapons/armor, etc. but non-casters need to find the right magic items).

ngilop

2019-03-23, 05:08 PM

TravisEnochs

2019-03-23, 05:31 PM

We already have a druid in our party, and I do not think he would take it too kindly if another appeared. I will probably go the cleric route. Thank you so much though. What would be the best deity/domains to choose? I can only go Greyhawk.

Make a druid, then prestige into one of the wildshaped focused classes. Look over this well thought out and thorough (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook)guide

For what you want a meat shield take a look at Warshaper (https://dndtools.net/classes/warshaper/), being able to grow like 6 sets of tentacles or other such crazy in addition to its other good, you can prestige into it as early as level 7 (maybe 6? cannot really do the math off the top of my head)

WHile it is nowhere near as powerful as druid 20. You can easily be druid 15/warshaper 5 have up to 7th levels spells (which are nothing to laugh at) In addition to fast healing, immunity to crits, +4 to con and str, extra reach on natural weapons, move action to give yourself more attacks, and the ability o change forms multiple times during your wilshape. You would basically be a fighter in animal form that also casts druid spells . so like a better casting wildshape ranger.

Again, this is just going off your face tank playstayle you have said.

Dwarven defend is horrible, as is trying to be a tank. Again the role and the mechanics to be a tank do not exist in D&D

Arkain

2019-03-23, 06:15 PM

If you want to keep the warrior theme going, you could also try going full Crusader or Warblade, with the former being indeed somewhat tanky. Or be devoted to Wee Jas and go Cleric 4+/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator for a bit of both, though given the RKV's power it might turn into overkill, so maybe be careful there. Another decision if you go Cleric is whether to play the Cloistered Cleric variant or not, which would reduce your BAB (without buffs anyway, as Divine Power is available to you) and HP, but severely increase your skills.

Mechanics aside, I'd also try basing deity and domains on your character and their personality (and vice versa) as well as, to some degree, your party. Creating a mechanically brilliant CE murder priest to join the LG party might not be all that appreciated after all.

Anthrowhale

2019-03-23, 09:15 PM

What would be the best deity/domains to choose? I can only go Greyhawk.

Try to go with the 'tank' concept, pick Heironeous with the War and Destiny domains.

For feats, maybe:

Human: Power Attack
1) ?? Improved Trip?
3) ?? Combat Expertise?
6) ?? Improved Initiative?
9) Holy Warrior (+5 to damage, scaling with spell level access)

The Destiny domain grants an ally reroll 1/day, which is a lifesaver. The spells are also generally good capstoning with 'choose destiny' which is amazing.

The War domain gives proficiency in Longsword and Weapon Focus in Longsword, as well as access to Holy Warrior.

If you want a higher level of optimization, reoptimize feats and build for Divine Metamagic[Persistent Spell] to have the critical short duration cleric buffs up for every combat.

Eldariel

2019-03-24, 02:39 AM

Let's see now: Greyhawk pantheon offers a lot of interesting options. One of the more interesting options is to be Lawful Neutral or True Neutral Cleric of a neutral deity that sanctions the use of Undead (e.g. Boccob or Wee Jas) and channel negative energy. This opens up using undead meat walls; the Frost Giant you slew would be a superb Skeleton for example. If you create some undead with intelligence and Rebuke them, you can also use Imbue with Spell Ability + Shield Other on them them to have them halve (and halve again) the damage coming to you.

Cleric of Boccob is ironically one of the better warrior Clerics. Magic and Trickery are great domains as is Spell [Spell Compendium], which Boccob's expanded list contains (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/we/greyhawkdeities.html). Anyspell and Greater Anyspell allow using key Arcane spells (you just need to scribe them into a spellbook á la a Wizard but if you ever kill a Wizard or have a party Wizard, that should be no problem) such as Draconic Polymorph [Draconomicon/Spell Compendium]/Polymorph, Haste, Alter Self, Wraithstrike, etc. Zagyg and Wee Jas offer more or less the same options as Boccob (as does Vecna if you wish to go down that route). Wee Jas explicitly sanctions responsible use of undeath so a Neutral Warrior Necromancer would work with her particularly well.

Cyndor is very nice (Planning and Time are both superb domains and Fate and Travel are quite strong too), Fharlanghn offers the Travel + Luck-combo (rerolls are nice), Hextor/Heironeous both offer War and Planning, Kord has Luck and Strength, Zuoken has Strength and War, Lendor has Planning and Time, etc. In short, there are tons of good options (worth noting that this list predates Spell Compendium and thus lacks a lot of domains but you can work with your DM with the likes of Pride, Celerity, etc. - mostly they're fairly natural in where they fall).

The big things are:
- Do you want to use Undead? You'll certainly be a bigger wall of stuff in the frontline if you do. That might not fly with all party members though, but it's certainly fairly strong. To this end, a god like Wee Jas and channel negative energy, pick up Divine Magician [Complete Mage] to pillage some of the better Necromancy spells from the Wizard list (Command Undead on level 2 is a big one as is Animate Dread Warrior [Unapproachable East] on 6), Animate the biggest baddest things you can find (in a Desecrated area) and go to town.
- Do you want to persist spells? Planning-domain gives Extend Spell, which can be used to pick up Persistent Spell and then Divine Metamagic: Persist Spell. A very high-powered option, but used carefully (i.e. not with the strongest options), an interesting addition that can help the whole party.
- Can you craft items? If you can, Craft-feats are very good and open up access to various equipment the DM might not drop in your face. Of particular note are Craft Wondrous Items (accesses almost anything) and Craft Magic Arms & Armor (obviously as a Warrior Cleric you want specific weapons and armor).
- Reach Weapon? That takes some work but reach weapons allow you to take AoOs out of turn and disable enemies, preventing them from getting attacks in the first place. A +1 Spell Storing weapon is a double whammy that can hit someone real hard on the first turn.

Much depends on your stats of course. 12-14 Dex opens up the AoO build with Combat Reflexes (14 because you need to maintain 12 Dex while Large and Enlarge Person is -2 Dex; Righteous Might isn't though, so once you begin using that as your main Enlarge, 12 Dex is perfectly sufficient), 13 Int opens up Combat Expertise > Improved Trip and Charisma is nice for anything that uses up Turn attempts.

Vizzerdrix

2019-03-24, 02:57 AM

Hmm... cleric 1 (to get and fuel the travel devotion feat)/ warblade or crusader 8. Grab ancestral relic feat to cover your primary weapon needs. Buy a scroll the spell that makes you into a mineral warrior. Unless you have a source of extra damage, go with a 2 hander and power attack.

rrwoods

2019-03-24, 01:55 PM

OP, I haven’t seen you comment on the build Falontani put up, and I want to make sure you didn’t miss it! It’s a good one :)

TravisEnochs

2019-03-24, 01:56 PM

My DM is not okay with undead magic. He associates that with evil and he does not allow evil characters. I am very interested by the war and strength domains. Being able to buff and having the assault magic would be super helpful. Instead of a craft feat would the ancestral feat be sufficient? I do not usually like sacrificing XP for my magic, and I think the leveling of the magic item with you is kinda cool. For instance I would make a belt of hill giant strength at level 3 and then by level 11 it would be a belt of fire giant strength. All of that without losing XP, just spending gold and magic items. As far as a reach weapon I usually carry a longspear with me. I don't know about spell storing, but I could always cast imbue spell. The only magic that usually appears for us as far as weapons is vanilla +1 or +2. It would be interesting to build AOO especially if I went strength domain. The issue would be optimizing it with the few feats I would get.

Let's see now: Greyhawk pantheon offers a lot of interesting options. One of the more interesting options is to be Lawful Neutral or True Neutral Cleric of a neutral deity that sanctions the use of Undead (e.g. Boccob or Wee Jas) and channel negative energy. This opens up using undead meat walls; the Frost Giant you slew would be a superb Skeleton for example. If you create some undead with intelligence and Rebuke them, you can also use Imbue with Spell Ability + Shield Other on them them to have them halve (and halve again) the damage coming to you.

Cleric of Boccob is ironically one of the better warrior Clerics. Magic and Trickery are great domains as is Spell [Spell Compendium], which Boccob's expanded list contains (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/we/greyhawkdeities.html). Anyspell and Greater Anyspell allow using key Arcane spells (you just need to scribe them into a spellbook á la a Wizard but if you ever kill a Wizard or have a party Wizard, that should be no problem) such as Draconic Polymorph [Draconomicon/Spell Compendium]/Polymorph, Haste, Alter Self, Wraithstrike, etc. Zagyg and Wee Jas offer more or less the same options as Boccob (as does Vecna if you wish to go down that route). Wee Jas explicitly sanctions responsible use of undeath so a Neutral Warrior Necromancer would work with her particularly well.

Cyndor is very nice (Planning and Time are both superb domains and Fate and Travel are quite strong too), Fharlanghn offers the Travel + Luck-combo (rerolls are nice), Hextor/Heironeous both offer War and Planning, Kord has Luck and Strength, Zuoken has Strength and War, Lendor has Planning and Time, etc. In short, there are tons of good options (worth noting that this list predates Spell Compendium and thus lacks a lot of domains but you can work with your DM with the likes of Pride, Celerity, etc. - mostly they're fairly natural in where they fall).

The big things are:
- Do you want to use Undead? You'll certainly be a bigger wall of stuff in the frontline if you do. That might not fly with all party members though, but it's certainly fairly strong. To this end, a god like Wee Jas and channel negative energy, pick up Divine Magician [Complete Mage] to pillage some of the better Necromancy spells from the Wizard list (Command Undead on level 2 is a big one as is Animate Dread Warrior [Unapproachable East] on 6), Animate the biggest baddest things you can find (in a Desecrated area) and go to town.
- Do you want to persist spells? Planning-domain gives Extend Spell, which can be used to pick up Persistent Spell and then Divine Metamagic: Persist Spell. A very high-powered option, but used carefully (i.e. not with the strongest options), an interesting addition that can help the whole party.
- Can you craft items? If you can, Craft-feats are very good and open up access to various equipment the DM might not drop in your face. Of particular note are Craft Wondrous Items (accesses almost anything) and Craft Magic Arms & Armor (obviously as a Warrior Cleric you want specific weapons and armor).
- Reach Weapon? That takes some work but reach weapons allow you to take AoOs out of turn and disable enemies, preventing them from getting attacks in the first place. A +1 Spell Storing weapon is a double whammy that can hit someone real hard on the first turn.

Much depends on your stats of course. 12-14 Dex opens up the AoO build with Combat Reflexes (14 because you need to maintain 12 Dex while Large and Enlarge Person is -2 Dex; Righteous Might isn't though, so once you begin using that as your main Enlarge, 12 Dex is perfectly sufficient), 13 Int opens up Combat Expertise > Improved Trip and Charisma is nice for anything that uses up Turn attempts.

Eldariel

2019-03-24, 03:28 PM

My DM is not okay with undead magic. He associates that with evil and he does not allow evil characters. I am very interested by the war and strength domains. Being able to buff and having the assault magic would be super helpful. Instead of a craft feat would the ancestral feat be sufficient? I do not usually like sacrificing XP for my magic, and I think the leveling of the magic item with you is kinda cool. For instance I would make a belt of hill giant strength at level 3 and then by level 11 it would be a belt of fire giant strength. All of that without losing XP, just spending gold and magic items. As far as a reach weapon I usually carry a longspear with me. I don't know about spell storing, but I could always cast imbue spell. The only magic that usually appears for us as far as weapons is vanilla +1 or +2. It would be interesting to build AOO especially if I went strength domain. The issue would be optimizing it with the few feats I would get.

Well, creating Undead is Evil (as in the spells have the [Evil] description) but used correctly, a Neutral character might be able to wing some evil spells without worrying about alignment (Wee Jas is again an excellent deity to this end). And anyone can control already created undead; that certainly is no more evil than controlling anything else (potentially less so since many undead are mindless and thus it's not that morally ambiguous).

Ancestral Relic is...okay, but not a replacement for Craft-feats. First, let's talk a bit about experience. Experience is a river; that is to say, if you lose XP, you'll gain it later. In practice this means that if you level up later, you'll get more XP for the up-coming encounters than your allies and catch up quickly enough. Thus, XP costs are mostly temporary and not that significant, and what you get for them is more than worth it. Very much so worth it. The big problem with Ancestral Relic is that you can only get one thing with it. You can only have one relic. Craft Wondrous Items can easily be used 6-7 times in a given game. Even Craft Magic Arms & Armor just for personal use is likely to see 2-4 crafts (weapon, armor, perhaps a shield, and a second weapon like Armor Spikes or a backup weapon or whatever). Ancestral Relic would restrict you to one; can you really pick between Animated Shield, Spell-storing weapon, and Greater Fortifications Armor for example? You can but it's better to get them all.

Spell Storing is awesome in that it allows you to unload a debilitating spell on the first hit; thus turning the hit into a save-or-lose. Blindness, Bestow Curse and Contagion are fine options for example; absolutely brutal if the enemy fails the save and if they don't, well, you still hit 'em for a good bunch of damage.

I wouldn't bother with both, Strength and War, as that would leave you mostly with only Cleric-spells for Domain-spells, which is kind of a waste. Celerity/Time have Haste, Spell has Anyspell, Trickery has Invisibility and Confusion, etc. I'd pick one domain that grants good spells, pick Spontaneous Domain Casting (PHBII) for that domain and then perhaps pick the second one for the power. Strength and War are also kind of redundant.

An AoO build is pretty easy with these feats:
1. Combat Expertise
Human. Improved Trip
3. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain
6. Combat Reflexes

You're done. The bigger problem is getting 13 Int and 12 Dex while still having high Wisdom and Strength and some Con. Yeah, that'll take all your feats up until this point but it's very solid. You could even sneak in Craft Wondrous Items (for Wisdom-boosters and such) or Craft Magic Arms & Armor (obvious) in there and push Combat Reflexes down to level 9. Quicken Spell would likely be the next feat and then you'd be golden. Note, you don't really need Strength-boosters since Divine Power already gives you +6 enhancement to Strength and you'll want to have it active in important fights anyways.

Actually, one of the reasons Spell-domain is so good is that Anyspell can replicate any 2nd level or lower arcane spell including Heroics [Spell Compendium], which can get you a Fighter feat for 10 mins/level. Helps a lot with the feat bloat. If you get spontaneous casting of Spell-domain, you can get a lot of good arcane buffs this way (Invisibility, Alter Self, Wraithstrike all come to mind).

AnimeTheCat

2019-03-25, 01:34 PM

Something I have done in the past and found fun was mixing Barbarian and Scout for a Dual Weilding Charge based character. My preferred Chassis is a Strongheart Halfling, but you can choose whatever you would like. A bonus feat is useful. My character was this:

Strongheart Halfling Barbarian 1/Scout 8
Str 14+
Dex High as you can
Con 14+
Int 10+
Wis 10+
Cha Dump

Feats:
B. Two Weapon Fighting
1. Power Attack
3. Improved Bullrush
6. Leap Attack
9. Shock Trooper

Scout 4. Improved Initiative
Scout 8. Improved Skirmish

Alternate Features:
Spirit Lion Totem (Barbarian ACF, Complete Champion pg 46; Gain Pounce/Replace Fast Movement)
Whirling Frenzy Rage Variant (Barbarian Class Ability Variant, Unearthed Arcana pg 66; Changes Rage to grant +4 Strength, +2 to Reflex saves and +2 Dodge bonus to AC, and grant an extra attack with all attacks taken at a -2 penalty)
Strongheart Halfling (Halfling Racial Variant, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting AFB so can't page number for you; removes the halfling racial luck bonus to saves and against fear/grants a bonus feat as a human)

I've had fun with it. I was always able to contribute to battle. My damage output was pretty good thanks to improved skirmish (at scout 8 you'll get +4d6 and +4 AC) which applies to all of the attacks. The Charge bonus to attack and small size (Net +3 bonus to all attacks) practially negates the full penalty from two weapon fighting and the extra attack from rage (net -4 penalty to all attacks). Couple that with a two handed weapon, power attack, and leap attack and you've got quite the potent hit, regardless of your potentially lower strength (you are small after all) and regardless of enemy type (skirmish is precision based damage so you can't use it on oozes or undead). By far, not the most powerful build, but it's fun none the less and gives you options in the form of skills for out of combat (and some in-combat) utility as well.

For equipment, I would recommend your favorite two-handed weapon and either a spiked gauntlet or a mithral breatplate with armor spikes for your primary and off-hand weapons. If you can get the mithral breastplate and have 20 Dex, you'll have a base AC of 21 just from that alone. Add rage (+2) and Skirmish (+4) and you'll have 27, 25 on a charge. That's before any other magic items or anything else which can further increase that. Obvious items if you can come across them would be rings of protections, amulets of natural armor, animated shields, etc. Obvious AC increase items. Some auxiliary items that might behoove you to see if you can get your hands on would be something that grants flight and is useable in combat (winged boots or the like) to cover the innate weakness to enemies in trees (though you may be able to jump up to them if you roll well enough), a healing belt to sustain yourself (3 charges a day, 1 charge heals 2d8, 2 charges heals 3d8, 3 charges heals 4d8), translocation anklet (I think that's what they're called, short range teleporting), and cloaks of resistance are always useful. Again, that's all if you have any sway over your gear. I know you've already stated that you don't have the ability to shop around for much in the way of magic items.

Eldariel's proposals would be stronger, no doubt (it's a cleric and magic is stronk), as would Arrowhale's suggestion (again a cleric). This is just an alternative that I've found fun in the past that might be satisfactory for you as well.