An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

[LudicSavant]

I like a bunch of your builds to be honest. The Wood Elf Samurai generalist, the Vengeance Paladin, this one, etc...

I only wish you'd put them all together somewhere I could find them easily lol ;)

Ask and ye shall receive!

Herein are collected some builds that were made in response to advice threads and the like. Since these were responses to specific questions, I have tried to summarize the context for each. All of them are good from level 1-20 and can perform in all 3 pillars of play.

Hopefully these help provide people with some ideas for fun and viable builds. Enjoy! :smallsmile:

Build 1: Celestial Generalist
This is a jack of all trades build highlighting the versatility of the Celestial Warlock.



The value in a lock isn't his casting. It's his versatility.

The party is Sorcerer, Paladin, Fighter, Warlock. As warlock, you can:
* be a primary healer via celestial patron
* be a melee damage via hexblade
* be a ritual caster via Tome
* be a diplomat, spy, impersonator, or thief
* serve as secondary or primary controller (eldritch blast invocations and utility spells)
* be the magic detector, or other weird things a warlock does best
* be the best archer ever

And most of those roles aren't exclusive. Weirdly, a warlock should be viewed like the bard; hardly required, but able to complement just about any party role needed.
Just to emphasize your point further...

I see your most, and raise you all! :smallsmile:

Celestial Generalist
https://i.postimg.cc/5211V7NS/radiant-cleric-of-pelor-by-grandanvil.jpg
VHuman Celestial Tomelock 12
20 Cha / 16 Dex / 16 Con
Moderately Armored (+1 Dex) / +4 Cha (ASIs) / War Caster

Cantrips: Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, Eldritch Blast, Mage Hand, Shillelagh, Shape Water (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?481560-Creative-Cantrips-Shape-Water), Guidance, Light, Sacred Flame (Yes, they know 9 Cantrips; 4 base, 2 Celestial, 3 Tome).

Spells: Cure Wounds, Greater Restoration, Revivify, Hellish Rebuke, Synaptic Static, Thunder Step, Hypnotic Pattern, Counterspell, Armor of Agathys, Hex, Misty Step, Mass Suggestion

Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast, Book of Ancient Secrets, Eldritch Sight, Mask of Many Faces, Maddening Hex


Let's go down the checklist!

HEALER? You've got Healing Light (which is like 13 Healing Words a day, or a lesser number of bonus action burst heals), the various status-removal spells, and Revivify. That's pretty much all the important bases. You also can take advantage of your short-rest recharge healing to make the party's breaks more efficient.

DIPLOMAT/SPY/IMPERSONATOR? You have 20 Charisma, the proper proficiencies, Guidance, and Disguise Self at-will (which doesn't even use your Concentration, so you're totally using it in dungeon situations too to surprise or confuse people). Oh, and Mass Suggestion.

THIEF? You can teleport, impersonate easily, have 16 Dex + proficiency in the proper skills, and are the magic detector (I find this comes up a lot when doing second story work). There are also some fun thievery tricks you can do with Shape Water and Mage Hand.

MAGIC DETECTOR? Yep, you've got Eldritch Sight.

RITUAL CASTER? Yep, you've got access to every class's rituals from Book of Ancient Secrets.

ARCHER? You've got a 24-hour Hex and an Eldritch Blast that does 3d10+3d6+15, plus a 30 foot knockback (with no size limit, unlike most knockbacks), and Maddening Hex for a guaranteed-hit 5 damage AoE on top of that. You can just dish out that 47 damage all day. And have fun playing pinball (knock enemy into another enemy, then use the Maddening Hex AoE).

MELEE? You have the AC of a dex fighter, a bonus action heal better than Second Wind, Armor of Agathys, Shillelagh, and Green-Flame Blade that gets buffed by Radiant Soul and your 24-hour Hex. Oh, and War Caster, so if they try to move past you, they get a Booming Blade OA for 6d8+5 (or perhaps something spending an actual spell slot). You also get 16 temp hp every short rest from Celestial Resilience (and your teammates get some too). And if somehow they get through all of that and you need to get out of dodge, you can use Thunder Step to damage them, get out, and rescue a teammate while you're at it!

Someone attacking you in melee could take 25 damage per melee hit from AoA, then take 6d10+5 (38) from Hellish Rebuke, then get whacked by Green-Flame Blade for 3d8+1d6+10 (27) and another 3d8+5 (18.5) to the person standing next to them. Oh, and you have a familiar, so you can make that attack with Advantage.

CONTROLLER? You've got Synaptic Static, Hypnotic Pattern, Mass Suggestion, and 30 foot knockback on your Eldritch Blast. Oh, and moving past you in melee provokes nasty War Caster OAs.


Build 2: Ride of the Valkyries Paladin
This build is a core-only, straight class Paladin that boasts excellent mobility and solid DPR (both burst and sustained) at all levels, while avoiding any delay to your support progression / maxing Charisma.

This build was originally posted to help a poster asking for a single-class Paladin build. And one of the nicest things about not being a Sorlockadin is that you get Find Greater Steed. It also was in a campaign where magic items were on the table, which really helps us open up ASI choices for Paladins (since they don't need to max both Str and Cha). Though, if you find yourself in a game where getting magic items is off the table, you can still do a build like this (see the "notes" section near the end of the build for advice on how).

Here's the 2HF version:





Example Build: Ride of the Valkyries
https://wiki.plarium.com/images/4/4a/Pegasus.png

Here's one that's strong at all levels. Basically your goal is to become an ultramobile living ballistic missile which is nearly indestructible and has tons of party support.

Vengeance Paladin 20
VHuman / Cha 20, Belt of Giant Strength, PAM, Great Weapon Master, Mounted Combatant, Inspiring Leader (Order in which you get the feats is optional, though I'd take PAM first).

High level strategy:
You use "Find Greater Steed" to ride a pegasus. At the start of your adventuring day you give a heroic speech about how much divine vengeance will rain down upon your foes today (which gives everyone and their familiar +25 hp / short rest), and cast Death Ward, which affects you and your pegasus. In battle, you cast Haste, which gets shared to it. Your pegasus now moves around the battlefield at 540 feet per round using the move action, dash action, and hasted bonus action.

This means that you will be in range when you want to be in range, and will be out of range of most of the nasty spells that you don't want to be affected by. When you feel ready after having surveyed your opponents on the battlefield, you do a flyby, cast Vow of Enmity if they're not already smaller than your mount, and then dive bomb them from orbit, doing approximately this much (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujC7rxFVZ18) damage with your full nova combo. (It's about 200DPR with a big giant's belt and a nonmagical weapon against a 20 AC target. That's not "200 damage assuming hits" it's "200 DPR vs AC 20").

Your Pegasus has some surprisingly good durability, with a respectable 84 hit points, Death Ward (and the ability to bring them back up to full instantly using Lay on Hands if they get to that gate), Haste (which gets +2 AC and advantage on reflex saves), good saves (thanks to your aura plus decent base values), Advantage on Reflex saves, and Evasion. Even if people can get in range of your hit and run tactics they've got their work cut out for them to chew through both you and your mount. If they actually have the movement speed to get close to you, they even have to make a save to avoid becoming Frightened. Even if they do kill your mount, you have a hasted fly speed on your own which lasts an hour without concentration.

On top of all of this, you have access to things like Misty Step, Banishment, Scrying, Hold Monster, and Dimension Door with a full 20 casting stat. Lich king wants to use Forcecage? No problem, you've got Misty Step, the highest Charisma save around, and can move about 200 feet without your mount. You're still coming for them.

Lower level strategy:
At level 1 you're a martial with Polearm Master. What more do you want? You even have the versatility to use a quarterstaff-and-shield instead of a glaive if you like (though for the later levels of this build we'll be using a glaive).

By level 3, you've got Hunter's Mark, Vow of Enmity, 2-3 attacks in a round, GWF, and smites. You hit like a truck. You also have stuff like Bless and Lay of Hands which does a lot to help out your party (and also make it even harder to ignore you in favor of going after squishies). Command is nice too.

By level 6, you're a monster. You've got either Mounted Combatant or Great Weapon Master (which synergizes well with your ability easily grant Advantage) and Find Steed, which very importantly gives you a mount that can act independently from you. This means that not only does it boost your mobility substantially (a pretty big deal given how effective kiting is against many of 5e's martials), but it can knock your enemies prone and attack, granting a substantial DPR boost (unintelligent mounts can't do this). Most importantly of all, you've got That Aura.

At this point your non-smite DPR is something very scary and your critfishing smite DPR makes things disappear in a puff of holy vengeance. Add to that the fact that you're pretty durable against almost all forms of attack, and do a lot to support your party to boot, and you're in really good shape.

By level 9, you start sharing Haste to your steed, which makes them more durable, significantly faster, and more offensively deadly than they already are... not to mention buffing yourself while you're at it so that you're getting 4-5 polearm attacks a round, with advantage and all of your riders and possibly GWM. You also get Relentless Avenger, which synergizes neatly with PAM.

By level 13 you get a damage boost on all your attacks and Find Greater Steed, which is a big deal for reasons given in high level strategy. Also, unlike those multiclassing chumps, you've got 4 feats/ASIs by this point. You also should probably have found a strength item by this point barring an unusually low magic campaign (and you easily have the Charisma to just find one to buy using the XGtE magic item economy rules, if your game uses that).

___

Variants:
- Inspiring Leader and GWM are replaceable, especially if you have certain magic items.

Now this sounds amazing, I haven't considered find greater steed o.o

It's among the Paladin's best spells, because of the "spells are shared between you and your mount" thing, as well as the advantages of independently acting mounts, combined with the Paladin's ability to actually keep their mount surprisingly safe when built well.

Valkyrie's mount, for example, can reliably tank multiple Meteor Swarms to the face. Which is good, because Meteor Swarm is one of the things that has the range to actually hit it (1 mile).

How many Meteor Swarms does the Valkyrie's mount take to the face, you ask? Well, let's see. Thanks to Mounted Combatant it takes only half damage from Ref save effects, or no damage if it makes the save. It also has a +11 to Reflex saves, 84 hit points, and an extra death gate (because of Death Ward).

Even if you failed every save, it takes three meteor swarms to take out your pegasus (two to break 84 hp at half damage, and a third to get over the Death Ward gate to reduce it to zero hit points). But you don't fail every save. So let's say you are up against a DC 19 Meteor Swarm... your pegasus has about a 65% chance to make that save and take zero damage. This drops the DPR of meteor swarm down to about 24, which means it takes an average of four meteor swarms to break the Death Ward... and then you need to land another one on top of that (with a 35% chance of doing so) to take out the mount, let alone the actual Paladin. If, at any point in this process, the Paladin decides to use Lay on Hands, it can go right back up to full health. Honestly the mount might as well just read "functionally immune to reflex-based AoEs."

The Valkyrie's pegasus actually has pretty good saves across the board when sitting in the aura, at +9 strength, +9 Dexterity (11 when sharing Haste), +8 Constitution, +5 Intelligence, +9 Wisdom, and +8 Charisma. That's better than the majority of level 20 characters. It's also got a decent AC at 20 (or 22 when sharing haste) since you put barding on it.

The fact that your mount shares spells that target only you also means that when you Misty Step, it can also Misty Step. When you Tree Stride (as an ancients paladin) it also charges straight out of a tree with you.

Notes:
- Thanks to the new errata (which was made after this post) you can PAM with shield and spear, which I find a lot more thematically compelling than quarterstaff and shield. Definitely worth considering a spear and shield version of this build.
- In any game using the XGtE or DMG guidelines for crafting or buying magic items (or AL, for that matter), replacing your Strength score by mid-levels is generally not too hard to come by due to the abundance of Strength-replacing magic items at every level of rarity. However, if getting Gauntlets of Ogre Strength or Belt of Giant Strength by tier 3 is off the table for whatever reason, then you can still do this build with good stat rolls, or start dropping feats (starting with GWM) in favor of Strength bonuses. Make sure to keep Polearm Master as your level 1 VHuman feat, though!
- If you're using XGtE, take note of the Holy Weapon spell.
- Damage is calculated assuming RAW GWF, rather than the Twitter version. If you're using the Twitter version instead, consider a different fighting style.

Build 2b: Shield and Spear Valkyrie
https://i.postimg.cc/4NsJZtZG/Shield-Valkyrie-Resize.jpg
VHuman / Cha 20, Belt of Giant Strength, PAM, Mounted Combatant, Inspiring Leader, War Caster
Fighting Style: Dueling

Build 3: Wood Elf Magic Commando
This one was made to what might at first seem like a rather odd request: A Fighter that can buff/support, do some sort of spellcasting, sneak, and smash heads that isn’t an Eldritch Knight.

Turns out that’s actually more doable than one might expect!


You can have your straight-classed fighter, your spellcasting non-Eldritch Knight, your party support, and your sneaking, all while still being pretty good.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/99/f5/8e/99f58e0a03db560046ebf8b16d6b5171--eladrin-character-ideas.jpg
Wood Elf Battlemaster Fighter 20
17 Dex, 14 Con, 15 or 16 Wis, whatever else.
Elven Accuracy (18 dex)
20 Dex
Wood Elf Magic (Guidance as your cantrip)
Alert
Ritual Caster (Wizard)
Shield Master
Resilient (Wisdom) (16 Wis)

Fighting Style: Duelist

You wield a rapier and shield, have +10 to initiative, and a +11 to stealth. You also can cast Pass Without Trace to give the whole party +10 to stealth for an hour (giving yourself +21 stealth). And can cast Guidance to get +1d4 on any skill checks where you're not under strict time pressure and aren't concentrating on something else.

In other words, you functionally have either a +11+1d4 to stealth or +21 (depending on which spell you're concentrating on at the time), and a +10 or +10+1d4 to initiative.

You also have an hour-long, Concentration free Longstrider if you want to boost your mobility, which is already a bit above average for a fighter (thanks to being a Wood Elf).

You also have all of the rituals of a level 20 Wizard, which means that you can just have a Phantom Steed around all of the time, make the whole party breathe underwater all day every day, can detect magic when you need to, have a familiar that can use the Help action, etc. And you've got the full benefits of being a level 20 Battlemaster.

Your goal is to get surprise, win initiative, knock your enemy prone, and throw out 8-16 triple-advantage attacks before your enemy can even act (by contrast, the more typical 8 Dex Fighter hasn't even done anything by the time you got these attacks out). Dragon breath can't so much as scratch you thanks to your Dex, Indomitable, and Shield Master. Ambushers can't surprise you. You're decently hard to kite. You scale very well with magic items and teammate buffs. You're tougher to hit than great weapon masters. And you've got all of a Wizard's out of combat rituals.

Enjoy.

Edit: Note that the build works well straight from low levels. From 1-3 you're basically the same as any non-VHuman sword and board fighter. At 4 you can leverage Elven Accuracy to boost your Dex while also letting you follow up Battlemaster trips and such with triple-advantage. From there you can take everything else in whatever order you feel like.

Variants:
- Shield Master is of variable usefulness depending on party composition and which of the several rulings your group favors (thanks to JC changing his mind frequently on how it works). Alternative feat choices include Lucky (which stacks with Indomitable for making saves, and also can be used to negate crits against you) or Defensive Duelist (best taken at high levels when you have a high proficiency bonus).

Build 4: Arcana Cleric Frontliner
This one was built to showcase how Arcana Clerics can make sticky and versatile frontliners who can do an awful lot to actively lock down or counter foes… whether we’re talking about melee brutes, mook swarms, spellcasters, whatever. It's very similar to a build we used in a campaign that ran from low to high levels, to great effect.

https://i.postimg.cc/3RpWdTdD/672fc7ed66d83e73706e36a572b26692.jpg
One fun way of fluffing Shillelagh and Spirit Guardians

Azorius VHuman Arcana Cleric 1-20
Stat Priorities: Wis > Con > Dex 14, other stats to taste
ASIs: War Caster @1, Magic Initiate (Shillelagh/Thorn Whip/Absorb Elements) @4, +2 Wis @8, +2 Wis @12, Resillient (Constitution) @16, Lucky @19, in that order.
Cantrips: Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, Word of Radiance, Toll the Dead, Guidance, Mending, Light
Gear to look for: Basically you want anything that raises your defenses, like AC/saves. Also, getting a Strength-boosting item is a popular alternative to taking Shillelagh, since they're relatively easy to come by in many campaigns (including AL, apparently) and also open up shove/grapple options.

Warcaster, Res (Con), Lucky, and Max Wis are great for any Cleric. With VHuman we throw in Magic Initiate to make us SAD, give us Thorn Whip for hazard combos, and Absorb Elements for eating the occasional dragon breath or the like.

Build itself is pretty simple, and works well at all levels. But as is often the case with caster builds, just posting the build doesn't really tell you why it's so effective. The trick is knowing what to do with it, because these guys get a lot of tools. They know over a hundred spells and I don't have the time to go over every single one of them and all their interactions and combos and situational uses and such. I mean, I could dedicate an entire thread to discussing some of these single spells. But I'll try to at least give an idea of the sort of things you're bringing to the table here.

So here are just a few examples of what they can do:


1) Booming Blade is a lot more dangerous than usual from these guys, because Potent Spellcasting adds your Wisdom on both the melee attack and the rider, and because Warcaster means that walking outside of the Cleric's threatened area to go punch someone else triggers the rider and then another Booming Blade and then another rider too. This works out to a significant chunk of damage at any level, especially considering it's not all of your action economy (you've still got your Concentration, your bonus action, and possibly minions).

While it doesn't "force" an enemy to stay still, it punishes them severely for not doing so. If they opt to walk over to someone with a couple less points of AC, the benefit of this is offset by living for less rounds and therefore being able to take fewer harmful actions. And staying still has considerable disadvantages of its own (like getting stuck in hazards, having Disadvantage on ranged attack rolls, being unable to adjust line of effect, etc).

In short, this Cleric has a damned fine OA and that is a very useful thing for a tank to have.

2) Spellbreaker is antimagic gold, and there's an awful lot of things you can do with it.

For example, casting Regenerate provides an hour long, Concentrationless buff that gradually heals over 600 hp throughout its long duration, helping to keep ally hp topped off between combats and picking up allies off the 0hp gate at the start of their turn without so much as a bonus action cost. But with Spellbreaker, it also removes a spell effect you don't like every round, again with no action cost from you. It’s like an hour long “every turn get a mini Healing Word / Dispel Magic at the start of your turn.”

For another example, Mass Healing Word is kinda like a bonus action Dispel Magic that targets your whole party and, as a bonus, also heals people a bit and picks them up off the 0hp gate.

For another example, Heal is an effective burst heal that also removes a variety of negative effects.

3) If you want even more antimagic, you can pick up Counterspell from the Azorius background from GGtR.

4) Warding Bond is a great 1 hour, Concentrationless buff that gives an ally +1 to AC and all saves (so, basically like a ring of protection. Or to put it another way, imagine if Shield of Faith exchanged 1 point of its AC bonus for +1 to all saves, then lasted 6 times as long and didn't take Concentration), and that's before it even does its primary job: Damage splitting. Also, unlike some other damage split mechanics in 5e, the damage you take on your end can be mitigated by your own resistance (such as from Absorb Elements).

It's not the only good Concentrationless buff you have either. Freedom of Movement prevents all kinds of things for an hour, and Death Ward is an 8 hour one that gives the target an extra death gate. Sanctuary is a ranged bonus action that requires enemies to make a Wisdom save to target a creature at all and only costs a level 1 spell slot (and can interfere with action choices less than you might expect if you're attentive to action order and the like; you can use it at the end of your turn right after hitting someone, and simply maintaining spells you already cast like Spirit Guardians doesn’t end it). There's even stuff like, say, an upcast Continual Flame giving protection against magical darkness with an unlimited duration (since Darkness can't darken areas illuminated by a spell of 3rd level or higher, period). These things add up.

5) Minions! You can create and maintain a bunch of animated dead on your days off, who can then do things like spam grapples at people or just stand in front of allies to grant them cover against ranged attacks or block the movement of melee attackers, while firing ranged attacks of their own. They can also do things like administer potions to teammates, per the DMG rules. Don't forget that you can give general commands so that you don't have to use a bonus action every turn.

More situationally, you can also use things like Planar Ally and Planar Binding to contract bigger fish.

6) Spirit Guardians lasts 10 minutes, which is long enough for numerous encounters in a dungeoneering situation (meaning that it'll often already be up when a fight starts). SG not only creates a large zone of hurt that leaves your actions free on every round after you cast it, it also halves the speed of everything in that area without a save (and stacks with Difficult Terrain and the like). For melee foes, this can straight up prevent them from being able to reach your party. For ranged ones, it limits their firing lines (such as for firing around cover) and ability to kite.

7) Your lack of reliance on your Action to be threatening (thanks to powerful Concentration effects, bonus action tools like Spiritual Weapon, punishing reactions, and minions), you can totally do stuff like use the Dodge action if you need to, and still keep your DPR relevant. I've seen these guys just jump into a crowd of enemies with a Spirit Guardians they cast 3 encounters ago and use Dodge until they all melt (mook swarms tend to have a pretty hard time hitting a decent AC with Disadvantage). This is but one of many examples of how these guys are versatile and adaptable with their action economy.

As I put it in another thread:



Our sixth level cleric waded into a pack of gnolls using Dodge action and Spirit Guardians. It was amazing how often that disadvantage thing caused a miss. Two rounds later, the remaining gnolls were trying their best to flee. (Needless to say, our other party members were also attacking, but that aura of angry spirits was very effective).
He had to make one con save, and made it easily.
Mathematically, a half-decent AC and Disadvantage makes it almost impossible for low-attack bonus enemies to hit you, which makes Spirit Guardians + Dodge a very effective way of taking out swarms.

For example, here's a gnoll's chance of hitting with Disadvantage at various ACs:

AC 19: 6.25% (1 in 16 attacks hit)
AC 21: 2.25% (1 in ~44.44 attacks hit)
AC 23: 0.25% (1 in 400 attacks hit)

8) You have tons of CC spells. For example, you can use Banishment to lock a dangerous target out of the fight while you clean up everyone else. Not to mention that Divine Word is like an AoE, bonus action, instantaneous Banishment against celestials, elementals, fey, and fiends (regardless of their hp) and also debilitates mooks or wounded foes with no save. Hold X is basically a death sentence if it lands (because of the autocrits). Command is a rare no-Concentration CC at low levels that can affect multiple targets if upcast. Arcane Abjuration and Turn Undead are effectively extra Concentrationless CC spell slots, too (up to 3/short rest).

9) Big Damn Wizard Spells. This part only comes online at level 17+ so I won't spend too much time on it, but you get a 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level Wizard spell known, and there are some golden choices on the Wizard list for your purposes, like Contingency or Foresight.

10) Your AoE damage isn't bad at all. Spirit Guardians just sort of passively melts things, but if that's not enough you've got options like Potent Spellcasting boosted Green-Flame Blade or Word of Radiance, or spells. Sure, stuff like Flame Strike and Fire Storm might not be the best AoEs around, but it's still enough to kill off swarms when stacked with Spirit Guardians and it's a heckuva lot more AoE potential than most martials get.

11) As long as you're up, actually taking allies out of the fight is hard. Even if enemies can get at your allies through all of your CC and pressure and buffs and such, allies at 0hp just pop right back up and many status effects just get cleansed. Even an ally who actually dies will get popped back up by Revivify while things like SG/SW/minions keep ticking away.

12) A high perception score at the front of the party's marching order helps to protect against Surprise, traps, and the like. Also has access to a variety of divinations and "information wars" abilities.

13) An important thing to understand is that you're never really doing just one of these things at a time. Your action economy is great. Just be careful to budget your resources properly for however many encounters a day you expect to fight (you should have enough for 6-8 encounter days if you're doing it right).

Variants/Notes:
Shillelagh's benefit can be replaced by either getting a strength-replacing item (Gauntlets or Belt) or by simply rolling well enough on your stats. Toll the Dead can also provide decent OAs even without Magic Initiate (though not on the level of Booming Blade's up to 8d8+15, which can further scale with magic weapons). Alert is a useful alternate feat. Observant is top shelf if you have an odd Wisdom score.
Some other good choices for your Wizard cantrip are Minor Illusion (always great), Shape Water (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?481560-Creative-Cantrips-Shape-Water) (see link), Ray of Frost (an AC-targeting ranged cantrip is something Clerics usually don't have, and this one makes it even harder for enemies to move through your Spirit Guardians), and Create Bonfire (with the right party composition, this can be brutal resourceless damage with Potent Spellcasting). For this particular build, generally you should replace Green-Flame Blade, not Booming Blade.
Party combos: This particular build is ideal for parties that don't have a whole lot of (or any) other frontliners, because one of the things this build is really good at is punishing enemies for trying to move past you. If your allies are already within arm's reach, monsters don't have to run through the No Man's Land that is you. Allies who knock enemies back, make them flee, or drop hazards also combo well.




More will probably be posted in the future, if people are interested. I have about a bajillion builds and have only ever posted a few of them. I'd also be happy to answer questions about why I made any given build choices or the like.

Let me know your thoughts!

Edit: See the second post for additional builds!

[LudicSavant]

More of my Builds!

Build 5 and 6: The Lifeguard and the Goblin Hazard Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23809998&postcount=14)
A Land Druid Mini-Guide

Build 7: Hobgoblin Iron Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23837856&postcount=45)
A straight class Wizard, except the complete opposite of squishy.

Build 8: The Ancestral Nightmare (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23917496&postcount=103)
A Simic Hybrid Ancestral Guardian tank build.

Build 9: The Nuclear Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23998967&postcount=170)
A powerful and versatile Evoker build with extremely high damage, great control, and even some retribution tanking.

Build 10: The Jorasco Physician (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24670442&postcount=496)
Or, "How to make a Wizard a top shelf healer."

Build 11: The Ancestral Avenger (Ancestral Barbarian / Echo Knight) (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24673886&postcount=511)
A pseudo-ranged GWM build that protects itself and its allies with a remote Sentinel.

Build 12: The Soulknife (Shadowblade Eldritch Knight) (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24681222&postcount=523)
A punishing lockdown tank Eldritch Knight build that manifests its weapons and armor. Not to be confused with the Rogue subclass that was released afterwards.

Build 13: The Ancient Kyujutsu Master (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24726630&postcount=582)
Just an Elven Accuracy Sharpshooter Samurai

Build 14: The Modern Gun-Kata Master (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24854070&postcount=799)
The Ancient Kyujutsu Master, except using new goodies from Tasha's. And a gun.

Build 15: The Way of the Demonweb Spider (Blindfighting Half-Drow Shadow Monk / Battle Master) (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24890247&postcount=831)
Exploring what the Shadow Monk can do after the Tasha buffs.

Build 16: Swift Death to Evil (A Ninja Assassin/Spymaster Paladin) (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24941211&postcount=938)
A versatile Dex-based Paladin who turns the entire party into a ninja strike team that can kill enemies before they can react.

Build 17: The Celestial Giftlock (aka the Ever-Living Generalist) (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25029862&postcount=1095)
A powerhouse generalist using Pact of the Chain. First and foremost a top shelf healer, but also a boss-shredder, AoE blaster, controller, kiter, tank, scout, etc.


Builds created by other posters in this thread:
The Eldritch Blast Knight by Bloodcloud (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23868719&postcount=87)
The Tiefling Masochist by Story_Optimized (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23960753&postcount=136)
The Fey Knight by SithLordNergal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23828568&postcount=37)
The Passive Soul by Ritorix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23910069&postcount=95)
The Battle Valkyrie Life Cleric by Man_Over_Game (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23910132&postcount=98)
King Leonidas by Tallytrev813 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23926850&postcount=121)
The Warlord Halfling by Mjolnirbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23935966&postcount=132)
Dragonriders by Mjolnirbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23936116&postcount=133)
The Undecided Spare by Mjolnirbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23936820&postcount=134)
The Dilettante by Mjolnirbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23936820&postcount=134)
The Dabbler by Mjolnirbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23936820&postcount=134)
The Stab of All Trades by Skylivedk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23923676&postcount=111)
The Tank of All Trades by Skylivedk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23923676&postcount=111)
The Never-Ending Ward by Skylivedk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23923676&postcount=111)
The Kinetic Blaster and Jedi Tank by AtomicWrath (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23964192&postcount=142)
The Flying Tank by AtomicWrath (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23964192&postcount=142)
Yeti, PhD by AtomicWrath (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23964192&postcount=142)
Jedi Tank by AtomicWrath (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23964192&postcount=142)
Nature is Magical by Mercurias (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23977810&postcount=150)
The Advokist Tomb Raider by AtomicWrath (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23988775&postcount=164)
The Shadow Whip by ThatDuckGrant (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24024178&postcount=194)
Whippy the Wonder Goblin by Amechra (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24028933&postcount=197)
Mr. Disintegration Pistol by Amechra (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24033136&postcount=209)
The ZombieNaught by Skylivedk (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24043138&postcount=214)
4 Arms of Grappling Death by Skylivedk (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24043138&postcount=214)
Swift Blade & Bottle by Skylivedk (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24043138&postcount=214)
Spider-Man by Skylivedk (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24043138&postcount=214)
Monsieur DeLafleur, Cook Extraordinaire! by Amechra (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24043138&postcount=214)
The Booming Trickster by BarneyBent (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24045781&postcount=228)
The True Skill Monkey by Amechra (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24046427&postcount=234)
Arcie the ridiculously lucky Arcane Trickster by GorogInput (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24067207&postcount=253)
YEET by Trickery (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24117719&postcount=261)
Tesla Coils by FableWright (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24117911&postcount=262)
The UberMage by Story_Optimized (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24132700&postcount=270)
The Divine Conduit by RingoBongo (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24135380&postcount=271)
Vesselyth, the Clockwork Bandit by Mjolnirbear (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24145455&postcount=272)
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The Grease Trap by Citadel97501 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24409280&postcount=371)
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Zealot of Death, by Benny89 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24457752&postcount=392)
The Caster's Bane, by Alucard89 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24463624&postcount=408)
Plague Stalker, by Alucard89 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24472976&postcount=421)
The Astral Paraih, by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24486077&postcount=431)
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The Hex Spoon by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24536410&postcount=468)
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Grapple Bard: My Shield is Here ForYou by PancakeMaster80 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24710284&postcount=573)
The Platinum-Tongued Diplomat by Legospasm (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24730133&postcount=604)
All-In Persuasion by Legospasm (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24730133&postcount=604)
Guardian Angel/Party Pleaser by Legospasm (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24730133&postcount=604)
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Heroforge 2 models of Eclectic Builds by Draz74 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24774476&postcount=717)
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The Hecatoncheires by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24789916&postcount=723)
The Magnetic Pauldron (AKA: Tech Support) by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24792264&postcount=727)
Illiquar the Tentacular by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24795398&postcount=730)
Kermit the Slaad by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24797987&postcount=746)
The Level 14 Aristocrat by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24806727&postcount=778)
The Crystal-Covered Crusher by Draz74 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24810592&postcount=781)
The Hobgoblin Steel Sorcerer by Bendking (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24842773&postcount=788)
The Rune Knight Bully by Mitchellnotes (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24856767&postcount=805)
The Psychic Master by Bendking (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24871220&postcount=809)
The Trunk Tank by Sol0botmate (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24879216&postcount=810)
The Heavy Artillerist by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24879833&postcount=817)
Bob the Builder by Zaile (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24884912&postcount=820)
The Überflumph by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24886599&postcount=830)
The Aberrant Mind Sorlock: A Renaissance Man by borg286 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24892506&postcount=856)
Smoll Panzer Smith by Sol0botmate (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24893743&postcount=861)
The Necessary Evil by carrdrivesyou (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24893917&postcount=862)
A Peaceful Summoner by Hael (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24896365&postcount=880)
Cloud Kill by Sol0botmate (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24897369&postcount=881)
Misty Holystabber by Sol0botmate (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24897369&postcount=881)
The Road Rash Wrestler by Wraith (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24902258&postcount=893)
The Kraken by Sol0botmate (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24905268&postcount=900)
The Umbral Messiah by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24949966&postcount=942)
Heaven's Commando by Citadel97501 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24954861&postcount=951)
Ambulatory Tank by LumenPlacidum (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24955654&postcount=955)
The War Princess: Master of Malicious Minionmancy by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24955911&postcount=956)
The Fire Marshal by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24958442&postcount=959)
The Sanguine Bastion by Rerem115 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24962366&postcount=975)
The Blazing Boa by Dalinar (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24964798&postcount=984)
The Whisperer in the Dark by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24965535&postcount=985)
The Thundering Cleric by LumenPlacidum (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24966167&postcount=986)
The Counterer of Spells by Jon talks a lot (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24972859&postcount=987)
Drink Your Way to Valhalla by Jon talks a lot (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24974879&postcount=999)
Caliban by RingoBongo (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24975039&postcount=1001)
The Joestar Special by Dalinar (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24975263&postcount=1002)
The Rave Queen by Jon talks a lot (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24975646&postcount=1003)
Everyone's Best Friend by Evaar (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24976191&postcount=1004)
Literally Luke Skywalker by Renduaz (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24976318&postcount=1005)
The Oxymoronic Meat Grinder by Wraith (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24981685&postcount=1015)
(Angelic Variant on Oxymoronic Meat Grinder) by Citadel97501 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24982189&postcount=1018)
The Wagoneer by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24982490&postcount=1020)
The d6 Piercer by Rihno (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24989229&postcount=1025)
Soulknife Generalist by LumenPlacidum (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24990645&postcount=1027)
Arcane Knight by Rihno (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24991336&postcount=1029)
The Farfire Visionary by Renduaz (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24993407&postcount=1034)
Korg - the Push by Houster (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25007963&postcount=1051)
The Eye of Annihilation by Wraith (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25015221&postcount=1052)
The Ring Leader by Evaar (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25024497&postcount=1088)
The Hobgoblin Battle Commander by NCat (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25039854&postcount=1108)
The Hex Grappler by Jon talks a lot (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25044631&postcount=1109)
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The Spooky Scary Paladin aka The Gothic Tank by Lavaeolus (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25071265&postcount=1144)
The Bondage, Domination, and Servitude Mountie by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25076844&postcount=1146)
The Roving Scoundrel by Rerem115 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25080798&postcount=1154)
Owl-Cowl: A pokemon-inspired ranger-danger that spells death from above by ftafp (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25083191&postcount=1158)

[n00b]

I'm running the Celestial build right now, or rather it's about to start but that's what I'm going with. Considering taking a few (1-3) levels of Sorcerer, mostly for extra spells slots for things like Shield.

[Keeganwilson]

Please do more of these! They're fantastic

[Pyramid Pug]

I am soooo bookmarking this thread 🤩

[LudicSavant]

Please do more of these! They're fantastic

Anything in particular people would be interested in seeing?

[Keeganwilson]

Anything you think is fun! I'm a big fan of clerics personally

[Winddragco]

Can someone break down the damage calculation of the paladin because I don't understand where some of the dices are coming from?

[LudicSavant]

Can someone break down the damage calculation of the paladin because I don't understand where some of the dices are coming from?

Belt of Giant Strength provides a high strength bonus. PAM+Haste+Extra Attack provides 4 attacks. Smite + Improved Smite adds dice to everything. GWF raises the average of all damage dice (with RAW version, rather than twitter version). GWM matters occasionally (but is mostly there for your sustained damage, not your burst). Advantage from the Channel Divinity setup or the mounted bonus or other possible sources. Should be ~150-200 depending on what grade of Giant's Belt you're using. Can do more if you can get a reaction attack (from either PAM or Soul of Vengeance or OA), magic weapon, ally buffs, or have your steed attacking.

It's not the highest nova DPR in the world, but it's very good for a straight-class Paladin, and Paladins bring lots of other goodies to the table besides just their DPR (such as a very fast and durable steed, or a 30 foot +5 saves aura).

You also have solid sustained DPR too. Your easy access to Advantage, GWM, 3 attacks (plus possible reaction attack), and long-lasting buffs like Hunter's Mark or Holy Weapon mean that you can instead opt to stretch out your resources while dealing solid damage and only smiting opportunistically (such as on crits).

[Rerem115]

I've done the Commando build before, but I did it a bit differently. Half-Elf Champion, as opposed to Wood Elf Battlemaster, with focus on Charisma and face skills more than scouting, but still a crit-fishing Dex Fighter that can go all day at heart.

[Cygnia]

Got anything for Land Druids (pref. VHuman)?

[Maan]

These are really nice and entertaining to read, thank you!

Care to help me with a build?
I'm thinking about a tank with the options for good damage and decent control. I'm about to start a new campaign/long adventure and while teorically the other three charactes are going to be a Cleric tank, a Rogue glass cannon (not sure) and a Wizard controller, they are all somewhat newbie-ish. So I'd like something to plug possibile holes.

[LudicSavant]

Got anything for Land Druids (pref. VHuman)?

So let's build a Land Druid! This post sort of turned into a whole mini-guide, so buckle in. :redcloak:

When one starts building a Land, a few questions tend to pop up:
1) I actually care about my AC if I'm not going to be a Moon bear all the time. How do I get my AC up? Is the non-metal armor thing a problem?
2) Which Land should I pick?
3) What the heck am I gonna do with my bonus actions?
4) What am I doing to be relevant when I'm not burning spell slots?

Armor Solutions
So, there have been numerous long and divisive threads about whether a Druid can opt to break the non-metal armor taboo.

If you or your DM is on the "don't break the taboo" side of the fence, don't panic, there are solutions. Note page 143 of the DMG, where one of the minor properties that can be assigned to armor is "strange material." Point this out to your DM and see if you can find armor made of bone, chitin, scales, ironwood, or any of the various precedents for non-metallic medium/heavy armor set by multiple editions of D&D lore.

A relevant Sage Advice can be found here, (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016) and it specifically calls out the possibility of finding things like non-metal chain mail, as well as the fact that finding such things is not out of line with their balance expectations for the Druid. So I'd generally recommend that route.

There is also the option of being a Mysteriously Medium Elephantman (from Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica) and getting a Constitution-based AC calc as well as a bunch of good Druid features. Or of beng a Goblin who needs AC less because of their ability to hide as a bonus action. Lizardfolk can be an option too, but only really if you've rolled high on stats (otherwise, you won't have the Dexterity for their natural armor to really make a difference).

Which Land?
Okay, so let's take a look at the unique spells we get for each list.
Arctic: Slow, Cone of Cold
Coast: Mirror Image, Misty Step
Desert: Blur, Create Food and Water, Silence
Forest: Divination, Spider Climb
Grassland: Divination, Haste, Invisibility, Dream
Mountain: Lightning Bolt, Passwall, Spider Climb
Swamp: Darkness, Melf's Acid Arrow, Stinking Cloud
Underdark: Cloudkill, Gaseous Form, Greater Invisibility, Spider Climb, Stinking Cloud, Web

The easiest one to rule out is probably Swamp. Melf's Acid Arrow is mathematically garbage, Darkness is competing with other excellent Concentration options (including ones that do fairly similar things like Fog Cloud or Sleet Storm), and so is Stinking Cloud. It doesn't have a great listing of non-unique options to always have prepared, either.

Forest also has a pretty unexciting list of unique spells. Divination is nice, but Grassland has that and Haste. Spider Climb is on multiple Land lists, too, and competes for your Concentration.

Mountain gets Lightning Bolt. Yeah, it's not Fireball, but Druids don't get that. Your non-Concentration blasting choices would otherwise be limited to Tidal Wave or Erupting Earth. Or nothing, if you were core-only. But I rather like Tidal Wave. As for its non-unique spells, it's got Wall of Stone and Spike Growth.

Desert. The main point of interest here is Silence. It can help shut down casters, provided your party can also keep them from moving out of the area. It can also help you out in the Exploration pillar. And it's a ritual. Blur faces stiff Concentration competition, while Create Food and Water is largely unnecessary for a person who can cast Goodberry. Like Mountain, it also gets Wall of Stone.

Arctic will grab you Slow, which is a pretty solid CC. And while Cone of Cold isn't exactly the best blast in D&D, Druids seriously don't have a lot of competition in the no-Concentration AoE blast department. It also has one of the best selections of non-unique options to always have prepared, like Freedom of Movement, Sleet Storm, Spike Growth, and Hold Person.

Underdark has the most unique spells, but they're basically all Concentration, and the Druid has an excellent selection of Concentration spells already (it's easily the category of spells where they need the least help). Greater Invisibility is probably the main highlight. Just how good it is will depend largely on your party composition.

Grassland will hand out Haste, Invisibility, and Divination. Pass Without Trace and Freedom of Movement are nice things to always have prepared.

Coast leaps out at me as granting two good non-Concentration spells which have little competition for their role on the Druid spell list. For non-uniques, Freedom of Movement and Conjure Elemental are nice to have prepared.

Misty Step in particular is fantastic to have, especially since (unlike a Moon Druid) you generally want to avoid melees and grapples and the like. And Land Druids should always keep an eye out for bonus actions.

Bonus Actions
- Healing Spirit and, more situationally, Healing Word. One of the things to notice about Healing Spirit is that it upcasts quite well. You know that Lore Bard/Life Cleric Aura of Vitality combo that people were saying made for an insane healer in PHB-only? Well Life Cleric 1/Druid X can match or exceed that healing with a Healing Spirit cast with the same third level slot.
- Racial features. One fun option is the Goblin Hazard/Whip Druid who remains unseen throughout the fight (by bonus action Hiding at the end of every turn) while maintaining various hazards or summons and pulling people into them with Advantage Thorn Whips (occasionally appending Fury of the Small). These are the ninja guardians of nature. Another option is the Shifter from Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron.

- Misty Step (Coast Druid)
- Heat Metal uses a bonus action to maintain its effect. It's situational, but against certain enemies it's quite crippling.
- Flaming Sphere is yet another 2nd level spell option, though the damage is rather underwhelming unless you're able to land it multiple times per turn. Unfortunately, pushing someone into the sphere doesn't damage them by RAW (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/09/into-the-flaming-sphere/). Which seems weird to me, but I don't write the rules. It's also competing with some Concentration options that don't take actions to maintain at all.
- Grasping Vine can pull someone around the map, but takes Concentration (which you'll often want for creating hazards you want to pull people into in the first place).
-Activate Shillelagh or Magic Stone or Flame Blade. Buuut we're often better off just throwing out a cantrip rather than what is basically a normal attack. Flame Blade is extra bad because it takes your Concentration. Magic Stone at least lets you hand out stuff to mooks who have little better to do with their actions. If you really want to have a half-decent melee attack with Shillelagh, my recommendation would be to try to pick up one of the SCAGtrips from somewhere (like Variant Half-Elf).

Resourceless Output
A Land Druid should not hoard their spell slots; the entire point is that you get more of them than other Druids. That said, I think my favorite option for resourceless combat contribution is Create Bonfire + Thorn Whip.

Create Bonfire is an AoE hazard (yes, a 5-foot cube can potentially hit multiple creatures (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/01/04/cloud-of-daggers-area-of-effect/)), and can potentially deal its damage multiple times per round by knocking enemies through the area. It uses Concentration, but that doesn't matter nearly as much if you're not using spell slots anyways. You can also march it along at the front of the party, so that it's up right when a combat starts (and might even block off enemies who win initiative when you open a doorway or something). And it can provide a ranged light source while you're at it. It's worth noting that there's no risk of your allies taking damage from getting thrown into the fire, either, because you can just drop Concentration at any time, even when it's not your turn. Especially valuable if you have a good grappler or the like in your party.

Thorn Whip combos with this, dealing some damage and allowing you to pull enemies into hazards (like your Create Bonfire) or otherwise troublesome positions. If you can get a height advantage over your enemy, you can also use it to make them fall (and when a creature falls, they land prone). The fact that's it's magical piercing damage also means that basically nothing resists it.

If you're going the Goblin route, you even get to make the attack roll with Advantage (having hidden on a previous turn) and then use your bonus action at the end of your turn to Hide again!

While this works well enough with just you, try teaming up with (for example) a Warlock with Repelling Blast and a grappler frontliner and watch those bonfire dice really stack up!

Also note that having a teammate pressuring an enemy is one of the reasons why Thorn Whip's 10 feet of movement is often enough; an enemy will often try to circle out of the Bonfire but still be in range of your frontliner, so that they don't have to eat an OA. That keeps them within 10 feet of the bonfire, or gets your team an OA. Win/win.



Now that I've answered the four questions I posed, here are some actual builds:

Build 5: The Lifeguard (Coastal Life Druid)
Note: Healing Spirit is a controversial spell widely regarded as overpowered. So much so, in fact, that Jeremy Crawford himself recommended a houserule for it. (https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/935992604080013312?lang=en) As such, this build will be assuming you're using that nerf, just because I expect that the spell will be accepted at more tables that way. If you're using the RAW version, you don't need to change anything; the build is just even better.

Edit: Hey, Healing Spirit got officially nerfed by errata! So good thing I wasn't counting on getting the old version :smallwink:

Disclaimer out of the way, here's a build that will provide lots and lots of healing.

https://i.postimg.cc/TYJVDyB6/3dc204622136434012e4dba8285ea758.jpg
VHuman Life Cleric 1 / Land Druid (Coast) X
Starting stats: WIS>CON>at least 14 Dex OR 15 Str
ASIs: Resilient (+1 Constitution), Max Wis, Lucky, Warcaster, Prodigy (Perception)
Cantrips: Thorn Whip, Create Bonfire, Guidance, Shape Water, Fire Bolt (Rakdos)
GGtR Guild Affiliation: Rakdos

This build focuses on pumping out massive amounts of healing (in and out of combat) while keeping you safe and using potent CCs (including potent non-Concentration CCs) while you're at it. And it can make people trigger the OAs of all of their summons and allies. And like all Druids, has the versatility of knowing their full spell list.

Armor
The Life Cleric dip means we're free to choose between either the Medium Armor or Heavy Armor route (and both are fine). Medium Armor means we can invest more in Dexterity for better initiative, Dex saves (which are more important than Str saves), and have a smoother progression (e.g. better AC with default / starting armors) at the cost of 1 less AC in the long run.

Healing
The main strategy here is to take advantage of the Life Cleric dip's synergy with the Druid spell list to give you some of the best healing in the game. The first component of this is Goodberry; at the end of an adventuring day, you basically can convert all of your leftover spell slots into a giant pile of potions for the next day. Every single slot spent on Goodberry in this way gives you a whopping 40 hp worth of potions (or 50 with a level 2 slot, 60 with level 3, etc due to how the Life Domain ability works), and doesn't cut into your spell slots for the following day. It just lasts 24 hours, so you can make all of these right before you Long Rest and have 'em in the morning. Hand them out to the party (especially minions and pets!) and now everyone can pick everyone up off the death gate.

The second component of this is Healing Spirit. Each tick with give you 1d6+4 healing, it can potentially tick on multiple allies multiple times per round (though it doesn't need to to be worth it), and it only takes a bonus action to cast it or move it around... and as a Land Druid you don't have a whole lot else to do with your bonus action. Also notable is that Healing Spirit upcasts very well. For example, with a third level slot it will heal 2d6+5 per tick, essentially making it a (mostly) superior version of the old Life Domain + Aura of Vitality combo that Lore Bards were doing in core. And that trick was already great.

Later on you get things like Heal to be able to just burst people back up to full. And you have options like Command and Plant Growth for powerful CC that doesn't mess with your Healing Spirit Concentration (and Land's Stride means that you can walk through that Plant Growth!) ([URL="https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/01/30/plant-growth-how-does-that-difficult-terrain-work-with-the-druid-lands-stride-ability/"). Abilities like Land's Stride, Nature's Sanctuary, Misty Step, and Mirror Image (combined with your reliable Concentration feats) means that disrupting you can be quite difficult for the enemy.

Altogether this can really cut into enemy DPR and make your party very hard to put down or keep down. You might initially think that 2d6+5 just sounds like a normal attack, but remember that healing auto-hits, while attacks don't, and that this is just a bonus action, and that it can tick multiple times per round. To get a proper sense of how good this healing is, you should be comparing your output to enemy DPR (counting miss chance and such) rather than just their potential damage-on-hit. Add onto that the fact that the party will be topped off on HP at the start of every new encounter and you're a force multiplier for your party's survivability.

Rakdos and Cleric spells
But wait, healing isn't your only good trick that not every Land Druid can do. I'm not going to reiterate a whole spell guide for Druids here though, and just stick to what Rakdos and Cleric can add for you. Our Rakdos affiliation means that not only can we summon a ton of creatures with spells like Conjure Animals, but after we make them swarm the enemy, we can cast Dissonant Whispers on them in order to make them trigger tons of OAs, dealing considerable damage. It also means that we can hit back with Hellish Rebuke if they think attacking the back line caster is a good idea. Or cast Haste. Or Fire Wall as another thing we can Thorn Whip people through. It also means that we get an actually decent ranged damage cantrip, which Druids usually don't have.

Cleric, on the other hand, mostly adds Bless (an excellent use of Concentration), Command (a rare non-Concentration CC which can be upcast as an AoE, very handy), Sanctuary (another bonus action! And no Concentration! We need those for Land Druids!), and Guiding Bolt (handy at low levels). That's about it for the notable adds.

If you would rather not be affiiated with Rakdos, see "variants" below.

Feats
Resilient is there mainly to make your Concentration better. Lucky does that and also a bunch of other things. Warcaster is also mainly there to make your Concentration better. Prodigy will make you spot everything. The order of feats can be changed up as you like, except that Resilient and Max Wis should be first, and Prodigy provides more benefits the higher your Proficiency is. If you rolled for stats and thus don't need to spend as many ASIs maxing Wisdom, see "variants" for further options.

Cantrips
We use Thorn Whip and Create Bonfire in the way described above in "Resourceless Output." Guidance is spammed liberally out of combat. Shape Water is to be used creatively. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?481560-Creative-Cantrips-Shape-Water) Fire Bolt gives us a long range option.

Variants:
- Some other good races for this include Loxodon, Shifter, Hill Dwarf, and Aarakocra. Stats should be adjusted accordingly. For example, if you're a Hill Dwarf with Point Buy, dump Strength, start with 17 Con, and bump it to 18 when you get Resilient.
- The Observant feat is excellent and synergistic with some of the above races. Great choice if you have an odd Wisdom score.
- Alert is always a goodie.
- The Defensive Duelist feat will give you an at-will +6 AC reaction at high levels. It could be worth considering for the level 19 ASI. You just have to hold a weapon, not actually attack anyone with it.
- Prodigy can of course just be augmenting whatever skill you like.
- Magic Initiate could give you a better damage cantrip at higher levels, like Toll the Dead. And grab you a familiar or the like while you're at it.
- If you drop the Rakdos affiliation, replace "Fire Bolt" with something like "Frostbite" or "Mold Earth."

Build 6: Goblin Hazard Druid
https://i.postimg.cc/prDDkyTK/1e6108a8910e1efc166bec42ee01590e.jpg
Goblin Land Druid 20
Starting stats (Point Buy): 17 Dex / 16 Con / 15 Wis
ASIs: +1 Wis/Dex (18/16), +2 Wis (18), +2 Wis (20), +2 Dex (20), Lucky
Land type: Either Coast, Underdark, Grassland, or Arctic.
Guild Affiliation options: Rakdos has some good adds if you're gonna take one (Dissonant Whispers + summons is a thing). Orzhov is an option for Spirit Guardians (which also has synergy with Thorn Whip).

This solves the "Land Druids don't have a lot of bonus actions" problem by being a Goblin. Being a Goblin means you spend all your time stealthed, You break stealth to do whatever your Action is (with Advantage if it's an attack, like Thorn Whip or Fire Bolt with Rakdos), then use your bonus action at the end of your turn to return to stealth. Being a Goblin also means you can tack on some extra damage in a pinch with Fury of the Small.

You basically set down Concentration effects (often hazards such as Sleet Storm or Spike Growth or Create Bonfire, or summons such as Conjure Animals) and harass people with Thorn Whip or other non-Concentration spells. And just do pretty much all the standard Land Druid things while spending most of your time stealthed. Take advantage of Land's Stride to help kite people.

This guy teams up well with things like grapplers or Repelling Blast Warlocks.

[TheUser]

Love the Arcana Cleric frontliner.
The interactions with booming blade, thorn whip and sacred guardians make this guy such a cool tanky support I absolutely love.

Really good in those tightly packed encounters.

[LudicSavant]

These are really nice and entertaining to read, thank you!

Care to help me with a build?
I'm thinking about a tank with the options for good damage and decent control.

How about a Dex-based Eldritch Knight 12 / War Mage 8 focusing on using Shadow Blade? Can also use Mage Armor to get plate-like AC while still being stealthy and having a great initiative. Bonus points for being able to magically summon all of your arms and armor and have 26 AC in a ball gown.

Arcane Deflection + Indomitable + Lucky all stack to give you great save coverage. Warding Wind is a good spell on the Abjuration/Evocation list which protects you and everyone behind you from ranged attacks (and some other things). War Caster will help keep your Concentration up, and SB / WC / Booming Blade OAs will make you stickier than the average Fighter. Shadow Blade gives you fantastic damage scaling as a Fighter and this build has enough spell slots to be casting it every encounter (by around mid-levels).

[Maan]

How about a Dex-based Eldritch Knight 12 / War Mage 8 focusing on using Shadow Blade? Can also use Mage Armor to get plate-like AC while still being stealthy and having a great initiative. Bonus points for being able to magically summon all of your arms and armor and have 26 AC in a ball gown.

Arcane Deflection + Indomitable + Lucky all stack to give you great save coverage. Warding Wind is a good spell on the Abjuration/Evocation list which protects you and everyone behind you from ranged attacks (and some other things). War Caster will help keep your Concentration up, and SB / WC / Booming Blade OAs will make you stickier than the average Fighter. Shadow Blade gives you fantastic damage scaling as a Fighter and this build has enough spell slots to be casting it every encounter (by around mid-levels).
Whoopsie, forgot to mention: we'll be starting with level 5 characters, at least; maybe 6 or 7.
So I would need something viable from that level onward.

[Antarx]

Ï would like to add something.

S.A.D. HELLSONG, the bard from hell
Songs for your party, Hell for the DM

The build is simple Flying tiefling Hexblade Warlock 1 (or 3), Lore Bard X
Stats: Char > Dex > Con > whatever (note that flying tiefling is a option for any tiefling, with or without "feral" stats replacement
Feats: Char, Warcaster, ritual caster. Optional: Lucky, Spell sniper, Inspiring leader
Spells Warlock: Eldritch blast, booming blade or green flame blade, shield, hex or armor of agathys,
Bard, Vicious mockery, friends, feather fall, healing word, hypnotic pattern, invisibility, heat metal, silence, counterspell, conjure animals

Build summary
This build has a lot of room for customization and maintain his strengths as debuffer.
With vicious mockery (action), hypnotic pattern (con, action), heat metal (conc, bonus action), silence (conc), cutting words (reaction) and counterspell (reaction) you can lock down virtually anything you may face. BBEG Heavy warrior? Heat metal on his armor, cutting words and kite him flying. BBEG Caster? Silence, hex (disavantanje on dex checks) and grapple him, or counterspell as needed, or use cutting words to make his "disintegrates" "failtegrates"

Also, you can fill any other role.
Tank. 18 AC with breastplate, shield and +2 dex. With "shield" spell and cutting words you can reach AC23 easily, without magic items. Armor of agathys gives you extra HP that scales greatly with a full caster spare spell slots.
Melee Warcaster, booming blade, hexblade curse (crit on 19+) and charisma to melee, you can dish some good damage without investing any resources. Spell sniper allows to use a whip, for the same damage and safer reach (move to 10, booming blade the enemy, and move back. Now the enemy stays still, or triggers the BB extra damage). And with warcaster and magical secrets, you can get paladin smite spells for crits.
Range Eldritch blast with agonizing blast from a safe flying distance, thanks to spell sniper.
Healing With your talent to negate enemy hits, you don't need so much healing, but healing word for emergencies is enough. Song of rest gives extra restoration. And you still have 6 more magical secrets for healing spirits if you really need them
Skillmonkey You are a bard. You have 3 skills, 3 more from lore bard, and 2 from background, and expertise. I suggest Criminal background, for extra tools proficiency.
Spellcaster You are a full spelcaster, with a free 1st level slot per short rest. You can even use any spell from any other class. Nobody else can do it better than you. But thanks to ritual caster, you can cast even more utility spells
Blasting You can learn fireball just for fun... Because you have fire resistance and proficiency on dex saves, so casting fireball just on you to burn all those enemy melee suckers is a viable tactic.
Scouting You can cast invisibility and fly You have proficiency in perception (or at least, you should). You can cast find familiar from ritual caster. All the bases covered here.
Minion-mancy Geas, animate objets, summon X, find familiar, summon grater steed... all of them are at your reach.


For extra fun, invest all you money in an Axe-guitar, so you can use your music instrument as spell focus and rock as hell.

[LudicSavant]

Whoopsie, forgot to mention: we'll be starting with level 5 characters, at least; maybe 6 or 7.
So I would need something viable from that level onward.

The Eldritch Knight build is viable from 1-20.

Basically Fighters have a swell time from 1-12. It jumps off into Wizard at 12 because at that point the Fighter progression slows down a bit; you'd have to wait all the way to level 20 to get another extra attack and that XGtE War Magic school has a lot to offer both in the short and long run.

There is one common mistake I see with EK that gives some people a negative experience with them: They somehow get it into their head that they should be using spells like "Scorching Ray" that rely on their second-rate Intelligence scores. Don't do this! Look for spells that don't rely on your Intelligence score, and ones that augment your martial abilities rather than replacing them.

[Maan]

The Eldritch Knight build is viable from 1-20.

Basically Fighters have a swell time from 1-12. It jumps off into Wizard at 12 because at that point the Fighter progression slows down a bit; you'd have to wait all the way to level 20 to get another extra attack and that XGtE War Magic school has a lot to offer both in the short and long run.
Thanks for the clarification, wasn't sure where you thought one should multiclass into Wizard.
Arcane Deflection + Tactical Wit no doubt are tempting...

[Lysimarchos]

Ï would like to add something.

S.A.D. HELLSONG, the bard from hell
Songs for your party, Hell for the DM

The build is simple Flying tiefling Hexblade Warlock 1 (or 3), Lore Bard X
Stats: Char > Dex > Con > whatever (note that flying tiefling is a option for any tiefling, with or without "feral" stats replacement
Feats: Char, Warcaster, ritual caster. Optional: Lucky, Spell sniper, Inspiring leader
Spells Warlock: Eldritch blast, booming blade or green flame blade, shield, hex or armor of agathys,
Bard, Vicious mockery, friends, feather fall, healing word, hypnotic pattern, invisibility, heat metal, silence, counterspell, conjure animals

Build summary
This build has a lot of room for customization and maintain his strengths as debuffer.
With vicious mockery (action), hypnotic pattern (con, action), heat metal (conc, bonus action), silence (conc), cutting words (reaction) and counterspell (reaction) you can lock down virtually anything you may face. BBEG Heavy warrior? Heat metal on his armor, cutting words and kite him flying. BBEG Caster? Silence, hex (disavantanje on dex checks) and grapple him, or counterspell as needed, or use cutting words to make his "disintegrates" "failtegrates"

Also, you can fill any other role.
Tank. 18 AC with breastplate, shield and +2 dex. With "shield" spell and cutting words you can reach AC23 easily, without magic items. Armor of agathys gives you extra HP that scales greatly with a full caster spare spell slots.
Melee Warcaster, booming blade, hexblade curse (crit on 19+) and charisma to melee, you can dish some good damage without investing any resources. Spell sniper allows to use a whip, for the same damage and safer reach (move to 10, booming blade the enemy, and move back. Now the enemy stays still, or triggers the BB extra damage). And with warcaster and magical secrets, you can get paladin smite spells for crits.
Range Eldritch blast with agonizing blast from a safe flying distance, thanks to spell sniper.
Healing With your talent to negate enemy hits, you don't need so much healing, but healing word for emergencies is enough. Song of rest gives extra restoration. And you still have 6 more magical secrets for healing spirits if you really need them
Skillmonkey You are a bard. You have 3 skills, 3 more from lore bard, and 2 from background, and expertise. I suggest Criminal background, for extra tools proficiency.
Spellcaster You are a full spelcaster, with a free 1st level slot per short rest. You can even use any spell from any other class. Nobody else can do it better than you. But thanks to ritual caster, you can cast even more utility spells
Blasting You can learn fireball just for fun... Because you have fire resistance and proficiency on dex saves, so casting fireball just on you to burn all those enemy melee suckers is a viable tactic.
Scouting You can cast invisibility and fly You have proficiency in perception (or at least, you should). You can cast find familiar from ritual caster. All the bases covered here.
Minion-mancy Geas, animate objets, summon X, find familiar, summon grater steed... all of them are at your reach.


For extra fun, invest all you money in an Axe-guitar, so you can use your music instrument as spell focus and rock as hell.

I'm currently playing a similar Bard/Hexblade, but I'm using College of Swords, and boy is it fun to play. You can do nearly anything and go anywhere on the battlefield, it's crazy versatile.

[Pyramid Pug]

Sup folks wonderful thread and very informative, especially since I usually play in small parties so I tend to cover as many bases as I can while still having fun.

This is my current character:

- Hill Dwarf, Lvl 9 War Cleric.
- 16 str, 11 dex, 16 con, 13 int, 19 wis, 11 char
- Warcaster feat
-For story reasons, uses a specific warhammer and usually a shield (tho the shield isn't mandatory like the warhammer).
- Currently gearless (we're prisioners on a penal island).
- Party is a Berserk Barbarian/ Fighter 8/1 and a Thief Rogue 8/1 as well.

Reading this thread I really enjoyed the thorn whip and Booming Blade shenanigans with spirit guardians (which has been a workhorse of mine since I got it) so I was wondering a few things..

-What ways are there to get cantrips outside my class without multiclassing? (probably with feats I'd guess)

- On the next ASL I wanna bump my Wis to 20, ya folks got any suggestions on what half-feat I should get or should I bump Wis and another stat?

-What other combos with spells/ feats would be interesting to get/try? I don't mean just in combat here as I'm kinda the generalist of the party, so stuff like utility, intel gathering (outside of sneaking which our rogue has covered), and other support stuff you folks can think of.

-On a related note, is there anything that can help me getting by unnoticed? 'Cause with 11 dex, no prof in stealth and (usually) heavy armor, I've dun goofed more times than not when it would benefit the party to be hidden (once with a shadow dragon, was epic and even got some bonus xp out of it, but yeah, not looking forward to repeat that trick 😂)

[LudicSavant]

-What ways are there to get cantrips outside my class without multiclassing? (probably with feats I'd guess)

> Magic Initiate Feat
> Races: High Elf, SCAG variant half-elf, or Mark of Making Human
> Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica backgrounds
> Magic Items

Edit:

- On the next ASL I wanna bump my Wis to 20, ya folks got any suggestions on what half-feat I should get or should I bump Wis and another stat?

Here's a list of all of the half-feats organized by the stats they boost: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?580998-Half-Feats-and-Races-Organized-By-Stats-They-Boost

So... given that you already have Wis proficiency your choice is basically just between Observant and +1 Wis / +1 something else (probably Dex).

Thankfully, Observant is a very good half-feat... at least if your DM remembers to use the passive perception rules.

[Maan]

Just for theorycrafting sake: would it be viable multiclassing your "Woodelf Magic Commando" to Wizard, let's say at level 12?
Eldritch Knight-ish build, I guess War Wizard or Abjuration could work fine.

[LudicSavant]

Just for theorycrafting sake: would it be viable multiclassing your "Woodelf Magic Commando" to Wizard, let's say at level 12?
Eldritch Knight-ish build, I guess War Wizard or Abjuration could work fine.

I guess my question would be why you wouldn’t be an EK if you were planning to jump off into Wizard.

[Maan]

I guess my question would be why you wouldn’t be an EK if you were planning to jump off into Wizard.
Maybe I don't find the EK features too appealing, or don't really get them.

Let's see, a full EK build would get:
4, 3, 3, 1 spells.
War Magic: looks nice when you have 2 attacks, effectively replacing one of them with a cantrip (BB it's an easy choice); less so when you have 3 or 4 attacks.
Improved War Magic makes War Magic look a bit better, though I can't really think of situations where a spell + 1 attack will make a real difference against either a single spell or 3-4 attacks. Especially because I see EK spells mostly as self-support.
Arcane Charge is nice to have but hardly game changing. Pretty much like Weapon Bond.
Eldritch Strike is no doubt powerful. Disadvantage can help landing a spell even if you DC isn't optimal.

On the other hand a, say, BM 12/Wizard 8 would get:
4, 3, 3, 2 spells. Also, without limitations in school chosen.
All the BM manouvers, that can give some nice versatility.
It would be missing Indomitable (x2) and (x3), though this could be remedied by just taking Lucky Feat (you can afford to spare an ASI with a Fighter); Action Surge (x2); a fourth attack; one ASI (not that you have too few of those, TBH).
On top of that you get Arcane Tradition at level 2 and 6: Arcane Ward, or Portent, or Arcane Deflection + Tactical Wit.

Thinking about this, a 2 levels dip into War Wizard could actually be pretty nice for a Dex EK...

[Nhorianscum]

Maybe I don't find the EK features too appealing, or don't really get them.

Let's see, a full EK build would get:
4, 3, 3, 1 spells.
War Magic: looks nice when you have 2 attacks, effectively replacing one of them with a cantrip (BB it's an easy choice); less so when you have 3 or 4 attacks.
Improved War Magic makes War Magic look a bit better, though I can't really think of situations where a spell + 1 attack will make a real difference against either a single spell or 3-4 attacks. Especially because I see EK spells mostly as self-support.
Arcane Charge is nice to have but hardly game changing. Pretty much like Weapon Bond.
Eldritch Strike is no doubt powerful. Disadvantage can help landing a spell even if you DC isn't optimal.

On the other hand a, say, BM 12/Wizard 8 would get:
4, 3, 3, 2 spells. Also, without limitations in school chosen.
All the BM manouvers, that can give some nice versatility.
It would be missing Indomitable (x2) and (x3), though this could be remedied by just taking Lucky Feat (you can afford to spare an ASI with a Fighter); Action Surge (x2); a fourth attack; one ASI (not that you have too few of those, TBH).
On top of that you get Arcane Tradition at level 2 and 6: Arcane Ward, or Portent, or Arcane Deflection + Tactical Wit.

Thinking about this, a 2 levels dip into War Wizard could actually be pretty nice for a Dex EK...

11/9 is almost always the better split for 5th level spells and fighter is pretty free after 11. That said non-EK fighters prefer sorc/warlock for hard spam on 5th's. War wizard 2/6 is just also good on everything.

11/9 EK has 4/3/3/3/2/1 which is a little more hefty in terms of power and is a slightly better comparison point.

[Petrocorus]

Good day everyone.

I am playing the Arcane Cleric with Shillelagh in a ToA campaign by now. My goddess is Mystra.

I had been working on this build independently on my side (with a Wood Elf basis), until i talked about it to LudicSavant on another thread and he shown me all the work that had already been done on it.

The DM has been generous and gave us a bonus feat at level 1. So 2 feats for Vuman. We started at level 3. I took the Sailor background.
I made some changes with the build presented by LudicSavant, though.

Because the DM has decided to put an emphasis on the "survivalist" part of the campaign, i took Resilient (Con) at level 1 instead of Warcaster because Saves against exhaustion, diseases and unintentional poisoning (like food poisoning) is going to be a thing.

For the same reason, i took Goodberries instead of Absorb Element with the Magic Initiate feat. I also took Guidance with the feat to free a Cleric cantrip slot for Light. Half of the party is human or aaracokra, and the DM is apparently willing to play hard on the obscurity situations.

We just reached level 4. I raised my Wis. Stats are now 10 / 14 / 14 / 12 / 18 / 10.

My skills are Arcana, Athletics, Stealth, History, Perception, Insight.
My Cleric cantrips are Sacred Flame, Word of Radiance, Light, Mending (taken at lvl 4).
My Druid cantrips are Guidance and Shillelagh.
My Wizard cantrips are Green Flame Blade and the second one remains to be defined (the DM allowed it), i'm hesitating between Prestidigitation, Mage Hand and Booming Blade. I didn't take BB outright because i'm not sure to take Warcaster before level 12 and this combo is my main incentive to take BB in addition of 3 other attack cantrip and Shillelagh.

So far the build is working well, as well as i could expect given the environmental circumstances and my less than stellar rolls. I've made an extensive use of Shillelagh and Spiritual Weapon. GFB and WoR have not been very useful yet as we have faced mostly single big foes.

I feel like i lack a real nova, but my ongoing damages per turn are neat. I support with Bless and Aid (i like to use it as a poor man's Mass Healing Word). I've been useful to the party in most of situations, including social ones thanks to my Insight.

[LudicSavant]

11/9 is almost always the better split for 5th level spells and fighter is pretty free after 11. That said non-EK fighters prefer sorc/warlock for hard spam on 5th's. War wizard 2/6 is just also good on everything.

11/9 EK has 4/3/3/3/2/1 which is a little more hefty in terms of power and is a slightly better comparison point.

The thing about 11/9 EK is that they have the same spell slots as a 12/8 EK. Both will have 4/3/3/3/2/1, but one will have an extra ASI and the other will be able to learn 5th level spells at 20 and only 20. The reason for this is because the multiclassing rules make the EK divide their levels by 3 and round down (so 11 levels = 3 spellcasting levels, while 12 = 4 spellcasting levels).

If you are a Battle Master, however, the 11/9 split is probably better, because it actually makes a difference in the spell slots you have access to (4/3/3/3/1 over 4/3/3/2)


Maybe I don't find the EK features too appealing, or don't really get them.

Let's see, a full EK build would get:
4, 3, 3, 1 spells.
War Magic: looks nice when you have 2 attacks, effectively replacing one of them with a cantrip (BB it's an easy choice); less so when you have 3 or 4 attacks.
Improved War Magic makes War Magic look a bit better, though I can't really think of situations where a spell + 1 attack will make a real difference against either a single spell or 3-4 attacks. Especially because I see EK spells mostly as self-support.
Arcane Charge is nice to have but hardly game changing. Pretty much like Weapon Bond.
Eldritch Strike is no doubt powerful. Disadvantage can help landing a spell even if you DC isn't optimal.

On the other hand a, say, BM 12/Wizard 8 would get:
4, 3, 3, 2 spells. Also, without limitations in school chosen.
All the BM manouvers, that can give some nice versatility.
It would be missing Indomitable (x2) and (x3), though this could be remedied by just taking Lucky Feat (you can afford to spare an ASI with a Fighter); Action Surge (x2); a fourth attack; one ASI (not that you have too few of those, TBH).
On top of that you get Arcane Tradition at level 2 and 6: Arcane Ward, or Portent, or Arcane Deflection + Tactical Wit.

Thinking about this, a 2 levels dip into War Wizard could actually be pretty nice for a Dex EK...

It seems like it could be viable to me. EK/Wizard will have a smoother progression overall, but BM will get maneuvers and doesn't scale its subclass features much beyond 11. Consider BM 11 / War Wizard 9. At 20 you'll even be able to do a 5th level Shadow Blade / Action Surge nova, albeit only 1/day. Being able to stack maneuvers on top of that is pretty nasty.

Pure EK 20's advantages would be having an extra Action Surge / rest, 3 Indomitables (which stack with Lucky), 2 extra ASIs compared to be BM11/9, about 18 extra hit points (plus 9 more per Short Rest via Second Wind), and of course a 4th attack at 20. And of course all of the EK's features. War Magic mostly only matters at tier 2. Arcane Charge will let you do a teleport that can't be counterspelled (which I always like). Weapon Bond makes you immune to disarms (also it lets you summon/smuggle items). And they'll still be able to cast quite a few spells, if a bit less than the BM setup in the long run.

[sithlordnergal]

heh, mind if I add my own into the mix?

[Nhorianscum]

The thing about 11/9 EK is that they have the same spell slots as a 12/8 EK. Both will have 4/3/3/3/2/1, but one will have an extra ASI and the other will be able to learn 5th level spells at 20 and only 20. The reason for this is because the multiclassing rules make the EK divide their levels by 3 and round down (so 11 levels = 3 spellcasting levels, while 12 = 4 spellcasting levels)

EK is wonky overall, 11/9 is always a good comparison point though. I just avoid the 12/8 split as 13 EK is 13 EK, 7 EK is 7 EK, 11 fighter is 11 fighter, and getting an "extra" ASI for our capstone is icky.

[mahifish]

These are the sorts of builds that I love. Happen to have anything interesting kicking around for Ranger or Monk? Those are the two I'm struggling to connect with.

[McSkrag]

Ask and ye shall receive!

9) Big Damn Wizard Spells. This part only comes online at level 17+ so I won't spend too much time on it, but you get a 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level Wizard spell known, and there are some golden choices on the Wizard list for your purposes, like Contingency or Foresight.



What you you all choose for your "Big Damn Wizard Spells" and why?

I would go with:

6th : Globe of Invulnerability - Solid defense for a tank facing mages
7th : Forcecage - Excellent battlefield control spell
8th : Maze - For when you really need to take a big dumb baddie out of combat for a few rounds
9th : Wish - because being able to cast ANY OTHER spell of 8th or lower is just too good.

[KyleG]

These are the sorts of builds that I love. Happen to have anything interesting kicking around for Ranger or Monk? Those are the two I'm struggling to connect with.

I want to play a squib Eladrin Monk with only the teleport feature. And Not just that he cant use magic but magic doesn't affect him kinda like in the sword of truth series.
"Magic can not directly harm someone who is pristinely ungifted, it can harm them indirectly. A bolt of lightning, conjured by a sorceress, will in itself not injure the pristinely ungifted, but shards of rock sent flying by the conjured bolt would still be capable of wounding them. "

[Antarx]

heh, mind if I add my own into the mix?

yes, please.

[sithlordnergal]

Perfect!

The Fey Knight

Race: Half-Elf

Classes


Oath of the Ancients Paladin: 8
Circle of Dreams Druid: 11
Celestial Sorcerer: 1



Feats and Needed Cantrips


Polearm Master
Warcaster
Shillelagh




Build Summary

This is mostly a support build. You should focus on your Wisdom before anything else, since that's where most of your spells are coming from, and will have access to 6th level Druid spells. You'll also have goodies like Aura of Protection to boost the saves of your allies, resistance to spell damage from Ancients Paladin, Lay on Hands and Balm of the Summer Court for some quick healing that can't be Counterspelled, and a mix of 1st level Cleric and Sorcerer spells. Eventually you'll gain the ability to teleport around the battlefield, or teleport your allies, with Hidden Paths, giving you some better mobility options and a way to save a friend if they need it. And best of all, most of those abilities don't use spells and are bonus actions, meaning you can use them and still cast something.

But just because this is a support class doesn't mean you can't hold your own in a fight. If you can get your hands on non-metal plate armor, which is do-able even in AL, you're be pretty tanky on top of all that, especially with Shield from the Sorcerer. And your damage is great too, since you can use Shillelagh to make your Quarterstaff magical, key off wisdom, and do a d8 instead of a d6. Mix that with Extra Attack, PaM's bonus action attack, and plenty of spell slots to Smite with, and you have a strong mix.

But that's not all, you're also a shoe in for magical staffs. Since you have Druid and Sorcerer, you can use almost any magical staff, such as Staff of the Woodlands, Staff of Power, or even just a Staff of Fire. While that is DM/Campaign dependent, the fact that you can use almost any staff you come across is a wonderful boon. Especially since this is an Adventures League legal build.


Strengths:


Support capabilities, to and including protecting self and allies from spells
On demand, non-spell, and some bonus action Healing
Access to Druid, Paladin, Sorcerer, and Cleric (if you go Celestial) spells/cantrips
Ability to tank extremly well, though it is dependant on DM
Can NOVA hard thanks to Smite, plenty of spell slots, and PaM bonus action attack
Is AL Legal




Weaknesses:


Too many Concentration spells thanks to Druid and Pladin
Reliance on Spell Slots for Casting and Smite
Reliance on DM for decent Armor, or requires Scorpion Armor from ToA if playing AL
One of the most MAD builds I've made
Almost requires you to be Half-Elf if doing Point Buy

[MeeposFire]

Heh I have to admit that Celestial gneralist looks like a lot of fun I will have to look into that for the future. It just shows again to me that people who think that most of the warlock sucks does not know what they are talking bout.

[Fryy]

Ask and ye shall receive!

Herein are collected some builds that were made in response to advice threads and the like. Since these were responses to specific questions, I have tried to summarize the context for each. All of them are good from level 1-20 and can perform in all 3 pillars of play.

Hopefully these help provide people with some ideas for fun and viable builds. Enjoy! :smallsmile:


Could you make an AL legal (PBH +1) version of the Celestial Generalist?

[MeeposFire]

Could you make an AL legal (PBH +1) version of the Celestial Generalist?

Isn't all the important parts of that build already AL legal? Unless variant human is not aloud in which case pick a different race and be down one ASI.

EDIT: Got it you are probably worried about booming blade and the like. You could just use one of your other attack cantrips not quite as good but still effective and then you can dump shillelagh to pick up some other fun cantrip.

[Fryy]

EDIT: Got it you are probably worried about booming blade and the like. You could just use one of your other attack cantrips not quite as good but still effective and then you can dump shillelagh to pick up some other fun cantrip.

Exactly, you would lose both the SCAG blade cantrips which seems to take some bite out of the 'melee' aspect of this build. I do like the Arcana Cleric build (also in the first post) very much.

[MeeposFire]

Exactly, you would lose both the SCAG blade cantrips which seems to take some bite out of the 'melee' aspect of this build. I do like the Arcana Cleric build (also in the first post) very much.

Yea Arcana clerics are fun.

As for the warlock it would depend on what you want to get out of the melee aspect in AL.

For instance if the important bit is to be able to deal a great deal of damage in melee range you could add crossbow expert since it would allow you to use eldritch blast up close with no problems. In order to get that you would likely need to delay getting warcaster, drop warcaster, or drop an ASI. This would not help opportunity attacks though in slight compensation you would gain back three cantrips (you would replace the two weapon ones and shillelagh would no longer be needed) so there would be that.

Or if you really like the opportunity attack aspect and want to keep warcaster just where it is you could just use sacred flame. Yes the damage is not quite as high since you do not get the additional bonus damage from them moving like you would with booming blade but you do get your celestial damage bonus to it and it is still better damage on an opportunity attack than most classes get (3d8+cha mod is decent at level 12). Since it is a saving throw it would have no issues being used in melee range.

I think for AL the second option would provide the most bang for your buck and would be thematic to boot though it would be slightly less effective when used. Though remember that you do get three more cantrips that way and if you pick some fun ones you could be even more versatile than the original build while only losing a few dice of damage on the probably relatively rare opportunity attack (if the target does not move sacred flame does essentially the same damage as booming blade for you) for instance now you can pick up minor illusion how is that for versatility?

Personally I think it is still very effective sounding to me.

[Lysimarchos]

Does anyone have any Spore Druid builds? It's one of the weaker Druid subclasses, but it's such a cool concept.

[Nhorianscum]

Does anyone have any Spore Druid builds? It's one of the weaker Druid subclasses, but it's such a cool concept.

Spore is kinda dumbstrong if and only of you abuse the hell out of animate dead. The symbiote is just more undead and concentration maintaining temp hp bloat.

Undead do suck in tier 3. Good thing we get animal shaped.

[LudicSavant]

heh, mind if I add my own into the mix?

Not at all! Go for it :smallsmile:



I've made a Hobgoblin Wizard and a Shadar-kai Fighter (Samurai) at your recommendation, but haven't played them yet so feel free to expand on them if you like. Any other Wizard goodness you like to share, feel free.

Sure. Hobgoblin first.

Build 7: Hobgoblin Iron Wizard
All the fun of a straight-classed God Wizard with no delays whatsoever to spell learning progression, except without the squish.

In fact, you are so non-squishy that your durability outclasses many martials, all while having the devastating arcane powers that come with an undiluted Wizard 20 progression.

https://i.postimg.cc/wvFsjW5T/yogo-kono-by-diegogisbertllorens-d5ovpu2.jpg
Hobgoblin Abjurer 1-20
Stats (Point Buy): 16 Int / 17 Con / 15 Dex (You can lower Con to 15 and/or Dex to 13 if you want more in other stats)
ASIs: Moderately Armored (+1 Dex), 20 Int, Resilient (+1 Con), Lucky

Our race is Hobgoblin, for a few reasons.

First, it has ideal stat modifiers for point buy builds. +1 Int means you don't need to take any more ASIs than necessary to max Int. +2 Con means that you can start with 17 and have it get bumped up to 18 when you take that one half-feat every Wizard loves, Resilient (Con).

Second, your access to light armor means you can take the Moderately Armored half-feat to bump your Dex and give you Half-Plate and a Shield. This gives you a base 19 AC (plus the ability to benefit from magic shields and armor). And as a Wizard, you have lots of abilities that act as force multipliers on your base AC, which means that ultimately you end up harder to kill than many martials. While other races grant Medium Armor proficiency outright, they don't give you that important shield proficiency.

Third, Saving Face is just amazing. It lets you get a +5 bonus to a saving throw (or other type of d20 roll) after seeing the roll, once per short rest. And while getting the full bonus requires you to have 5 allies visible within 30 feet of you, this requirement is very easy to meet, since it totally counts familiars and skeletons and paladin mounts and the like. Compare to getting the ever-popular Lucky feat.

Those are the main reasons. Some icing on the top is that you get a better weapon proficiency (relevant at tier 1), and that your proficiency in light armor means that you don't need to spend any precious level 1 spell slots on Mage Armor at levels 1-3, and that you get Darkvision.

Being an Abjurer means that you have higher HP than a Fighter (your Ward makes up the difference in HD size and then some), and the 18 Con puts you even further ahead of the usual HP curve. And you have the base AC of a Dex+Shield Fighter. And you know how people keep saying that EKs are the tankiest Fighters because of their defensive spells? Well you get all of those defensive spells (Shield/Absorb Elements/etc), plus lots more slots for them, plus even better defensive spells (via higher level slots). And Save Face + Lucky + Resilient + Spell Resistance + defensive spells means your saves are pretty ironclad across the board.

Later on, you get Spell Resistance (which gives you Advantage on saves against spells, and resistance against damage from spells), which means you are basically as durable against spells as a Yuan-Ti Ancients Paladin with a boosted Counterspell.

Your Concentration is very difficult to break when it counts, too. First the enemy has to succeed at hitting you at all (getting past your control effects, then hitting your high AC through all your defensive abilities, etc), then you can reduce the damage you take with your ward and/or Endure Elements or Spell Resistance for a lower DC save, and then you've got up to a +15 / Lucky Constitution saving throw.

Your martial weapon proficiency only really matters at tier 1, when firing crossbows is better than cantrips. Unlike the other Wizards, you'll be firing a Heavy instead of a Light one for a little extra damage. If you want, you can even mix things up with Booming Blade in melee (in which case, see variants for War Caster). Another, more important tier 1 benefit is that you'll be spending a lot less spell slots on defensive spells. You only need to use Shield AFTER something misses you, which will happen considerably less. And you only need to use Mage Armor if you don't already have armor. This means you'll have noticeably more spell slots in the early game.

The real upshot is that you get these benefits while having a true uninterrupted spell progression. You get your Fireballs and Hypnotic Patterns at level 5, not 6. You get your Contingency at level 11, not 12. And so forth. Basically your plan is to do standard God Wizard things about as well as any other God Wizard, while just happening to be Made of Iron: surviving more damage than the party Fighter and having ironclad Concentration.


I'm not going to reproduce an entire Wizard guide here (perhaps something for later...), but I will comment on some of the notable Abjuration spells, just so you have a handy reference for stuff that recharges your ward and is worth picking up with Abjuration Savant.

Globe of Invulnerability: The obvious use is keeping your enemy's spells out. A non-obvious, creative, and powerful use is using it to "Sculpt" spells around your globe. Note that you can target places within the globe, people inside are just excluded from the effects! Have fun with that.

Like that one? Then you'll go nuts for the next one: If you (or your party members) cast a spell within a Globe of Invulnerability, you can't be counterspelled (even by an upcast counterspell!) (Yes, really! (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/140948/can-a-spell-cast-inside-a-globe-of-invulnerability-be-counterspelled))

Shield: So let me tell you a bit about armor class. It has increasing returns. As in, the graph for your effective hit points relative to the enemy's chance of hitting you looks like this:
https://i.postimg.cc/MTvcMjvC/Arcane-Trickster5save-HP.png
Note: Graph necessarily doesn't take into account crit chances, since how much that impacts the curve is monster-specific. But the curve retains its general shape.

So this spell was already great mitigation when it was being used by standard 15-or-so AC Wizards. For you, it's much better. Large enemy groups especially have almost no chance of hitting you, which is a big deal because for many builds those guys are incredibly deadly throughout the game.

Not only will you be considerably harder to hit when Shield is activated, it's also better for you because you'll end up spending less spell slots on it than a typical Wizard, since people will be hitting your base AC less often.

When you reach tier 4, you can and probably should take this as one of your Spell Mastery choices, allowing you to boost your AC at will as well as recharge your ward to full quickly.

Absorb Elements: Fantastic mitigation that becomes even better now that it regenerates your ward. Yeah, it only regains 2, but look at it this way: the Life Domain's perk only restores 3 extra. Every bit counts.

Combined with your good saving throws on demand (via Saving Face, and later Resilient and Lucky), you can cut down tons of damage from save effects.

Mage Armor: This is an essential pick for other Wizards. For you, it's entirely unnecessary, which means you basically have an extra spell slot compared to other Wizards. Very noticeable at early levels.

Alarm (Ritual): A ritual that converts downtime into ward points. And makes your downtime safer to boot. And yes, this is the only Abjuration ritual on the Wizard spell list.

Banishment: One of the best single target lockdown spells just so happens to be Abjuration.

Counterspell: The Abjurer's Counterspell is the best version of Counterspell, and it restores your ward too.

Protection from Good and Evil: This is a situational spell that competes for your Concentration, but very good at the situations it excels at. And "aberrations, celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead" isn't exactly a small chunk of the Monster Manuals as it is!

Full on immunity to fear, charms (which tons of effects in 5e key off of, way more than people seem to generally realize, from Dominate to Hypnotic Pattern to harpy songs), and possession. Disadvantage on all of the monster's attacks. First level spell slot. This is fantastic value if you're fighting the right creature types.

For comparison, Blur is a second level Concentration spell that only does the "disadvantage on attacks" part, but is self-only and has a tenth of the duration and monsters that don't rely on sight (or can see through illusions) can get around it.


Edit (more commentary!) Another cool thing about the Abjurer I should mention is that it's tougher to kill your otherwise squishy adds. Your familiar might actually survive a hit thanks to your Ward reaction, so things like Dragon's Breath become more reliable. It also makes it even easier to get the full bonus from Saving Face.

Even more importantly, later on your Simulacrum (which normally has half-hit points, and those hit points are costly to restore) has a regenerating, projectable ward of their own. To get an idea of the difference this makes in durability, a 14 Con Wizard at L13 has 80 hit points, and their Simulacrum has just 40. Your Simulacrum has 46 base hit points, plus a 31 hit point Ward, plus you can project your own ward in order to shield them... for a total of 108 hit points before your Simulacrum goes down. And that's before we count them generating temp HP with spell slots, or regenerating wards (way easier than regenerating Simulacrum hit points), and so forth.

Oh, and of course, that 62 hit points worth of Ward between the two of you can be projected to any of your allies.

By level 20, it's 90 hit points of ward between the two of you, and you can regenerate it at-will using Spell Mastery: Shield. And you can just project that onto anyone in the party as needed. In the mid-high level Abjurer's world, everyone is iron.

Variants/Notes:
You can pick any Wizard subclass with a Moderately Armored Hobgoblin, really. Abjurer just makes the comparison to the Fighter's durability that much more straightforward. :smallwink: Anyways, want to make, say, a War Wizard who gets +9 or more to all saves at level 2? You can do that.
I would always take Moderately Armored first and Lucky last, but other than that you can take the ASIs in whatever order depending on your priorities and playstyle.
The Svirfneblin Abjurer is another option that often gets brought up; it'll have more ward regeneration but ultimately can be burst down more easily than the Hobgoblin in many situations. You'd basically replace Moderately Armored with the Svirfneblin magic feat that lets them cast Nondetection (an Abjuration spell that recharges your ward) at will. Note that the Svirf will have only a 25 ft movement speed, lower Constitution, Gnome Cunning won't stack with Spell Resistance, and the ward regeneration advantage largely becomes irrelevant in tier 4 (when they get Spell Mastery).
You can lower the Dex to 14 with no loss in AC; it just benefits your Dex saves, Initiative, and low level resourceless options.
If you roll stats, you might have extra slots for feats. In which case, here are some good ones:

War Caster for even better Concentration saves (the main reason to take it), and the ability to Booming Blade or Banish people who try to walk away from you when they realize they can't hit you through Blur/Shield or whatever.
Alert, for the same reason it's good for everyone.



Let me know your thoughts!

[Mercurias]

Oh man these are awesome.

I was wondering if anyone had a crazy-awesome Earth Genasi Ancestors or Zealot Barbarian laying around. I've been tweaking my backup for my new campaign to fit the current party.

[Yakmala]

I've played both the Celestial Tomelock and the Arcana Cleric Magic Initiate and really enjoyed them both.

The Wood Elf Battlemaster is going on my "to play" list. Great write up! The one thing I'll likely change is the order of the ASI's. I'll start with a 17 Dex and pick up Elven Accuracy first as suggested, but then follow that up with Ritual Caster at level 6 for Find Familiar. The plan is to use the Owl for a help action on the first attack, triggering the Elven Accuracy for a Trip Attack. If the Trip works, then I'll have Elven Accuracy for the second attack as well, while helping any other melee types in the party.

[Sparky McDibben]

Hobgoblin wizard looks so cool!!!

[mahifish]

Hiya! I really love the way you build characters, and was wondering if you could help me with a character I want to play, but I'm struggling on finding something that really feels right.

I know I want to play a lizardfolk, and that I want to play a low magic class. By that I mean a class whose primary function isn't as a spell caster, but some incidental casting is ok (ranger or paladin spells for example). I'd be open to any combination of ranger, barbarian, rogue, monk, and fighter. I want to specifically avoid wizard, sorcerer and cleric, but might be swayed by hexblade warlock if it were melee or ranged focused. I have a soft spot for druids, but if going druid I'd want to focus primarily on the wild shapes. I'm not sure how viable that is in 5e though. The anti-synergy with barbarian and monk's armor kinda stumped me, but those were the first ones I looked at.

We use point buy, but in the past we were able to convince the DM to let us roll and use that if it ended up better.

One of my thoughts were that the ranger or druid would have an affinity for reptiles and insects and shun mammals, but I don't know where to take that.

[LudicSavant]

Hiya! I really love the way you build characters, and was wondering if you could help me with a character I want to play, but I'm struggling on finding something that really feels right.

I know I want to play a lizardfolk, and that I want to play a low magic class. By that I mean a class whose primary function isn't as a spell caster, but some incidental casting is ok (ranger or paladin spells for example). I'd be open to any combination of ranger, barbarian, rogue, monk, and fighter. I want to specifically avoid wizard, sorcerer and cleric, but might be swayed by hexblade warlock if it were melee or ranged focused. I have a soft spot for druids, but if going druid I'd want to focus primarily on the wild shapes. I'm not sure how viable that is in 5e though. The anti-synergy with barbarian and monk's armor kinda stumped me, but those were the first ones I looked at.

We use point buy, but in the past we were able to convince the DM to let us roll and use that if it ended up better.

One of my thoughts were that the ranger or druid would have an affinity for reptiles and insects and shun mammals, but I don't know where to take that.

Lizardfolk are a lot of fun, lore-wise.

Mechanically though, they're tricky, because they're kinda anti-synergistic and none of their individual abilities are really stellar. Their natural armor doesn't do anything unless it's on a Dex build (or perhaps someone who would otherwise have no armor at all, like a Wizard), and won't work with Barbarians or Monks. Their natural weapons and Hungry Jaws want you to make Strength-based attacks (and use Constitution for the number of temp hp). And their statline has neither Dex nor Strength nor a casting stat for unarmored casters. And they don't have Darkvision.

As you can see, they're kind of all over the place. You generally benefit from Natural Armor OR Hungry Jaws OR fit snugly with their stat typing... but only one of those. And the rest of their abilities are just skill proficiencies and ribbons. I guess you could maybe argue that Hungry Jaws can be used to chow down on things out of combat (and thus not care about Strength), but some DMs might get gamey and say that you can only engage in a feeding frenzy "in battle" due to the first line of the ability. On the other hand, carrying around a live chicken to devour does seem like a rather Lizardfolky thing to do.

So we want a non-caster, that minimizes our MADness, and benefits from our racial features.

For a Barbarian, Ancestral Guardian or Zealot could be a decent choice. Both subclasses lack bonus actions, and have abilities that enjoy having the occasional extra attack from Hungry Jaws (e.g. you want to make sure their level 3 abilities proc). Also, a grappler Barbarian will appreciate the ability to attack (via bite) while wielding a shield and holding a foe down. Unfortunately your natural armor won't be doing you any favors. The main concern will be that you have to wait all the way until level 12 to max your Strength, and that's if you don't get any full feats at all before that point. The only half-feat worth considering for +1 Strength would be Tavern Brawler. Alternatively you could start with 15 Str / 17 Con and get a +1/+1 ASI. Whatever way you slice it, your main schtick will be to shove people prone and grapple them so that they can't go anywhere, then bite away despite having your hands full.

For a Dex Fighter, the extra ASIs mean that you can potentially max your stat as early as level 8. Your Natural Armor will allow you to have +1 AC over mundane half-plate while retaining your full stealth ability... almost like you took the Medium Armor Master feat. Hungry Jaws can still give you a few extra hit points from disabled foes or the like. You can start with 13 Str / 15 Dex / 16 Con / 14 Wis, get +1 Str/Dex on your first ASI, and have an at least half-decent bonus action attack 1/SR. Max out your Dex by level 8, and sneak around trying to ambush people with your good Stealth. Go Battlemaster and use a rapier.

PS: I found this thing, which you might find helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comments/9lhiom/scaled_horror_a_lizardfolk_handbook/

[Citadel97501]

I was wondering if anyone has an effective ranged flying character that comes online by level 10? Mounted or self flying is fine by me, I am kind of interested in something like that as I haven't had an opportunity to try out an aerial battle yet. I was thinking Sword Bard would be easiest due to Find Greater Steed, and Mobile Flourish would let you slaughter enemy mounted flyers, while you might want to use some method of restraining to make a natural flyer fall.

Bard is not required, as I am willing to try most things. I know the Warlock was suggested as an option, in an old guide but I am not sure of a reliable method to let them fly.

Notes: 3 rare magic items at most, any printed options are OK, the game is set in Ravnica if that helps.

[LudicSavant]

I was wondering if anyone has an effective ranged flying character that comes online by level 10? Mounted or self flying is fine by me, I am kind of interested in something like that as I haven't had an opportunity to try out an aerial battle yet. I was thinking Sword Bard would be easiest due to Find Greater Steed, and Mobile Flourish would let you slaughter enemy mounted flyers, while you might want to use some method of restraining to make a natural flyer fall.

Bard is not required, as I am willing to try most things. I know the Warlock was suggested as an option, in an old guide but I am not sure of a reliable method to let them fly.

Notes: 3 rare magic items at most, any printed options are OK, the game is set in Ravnica if that helps.

Lots of options here.

One way to get flight is the racial route. Be a Winged Tiefling or an Aarakocra and come online at level 1. If permanent flight isn't allowed (entirely reasonable choice for a DM) then Protector Aasimar Warlocks work too for coming online at level 1, and have proper stats for a Warlock. There are also magic items that will grant you consistent flight, since you mentioned those. And in Ravnica, the Simic Hybrid has some crazy movement tricks with Manta Glide (since falling doesn't consume your move speed, and it converts falling distance into vertical distance)

You ideally want some form of flight where you aren't concentrating on yourself, OR a really good Concentration and some sort of contingency plan for if you fall (taking falling damage + landing prone so enemies follow up with Advantage is usually bad news for you if you if you're playing at a challenging table).

[Nhorianscum]

I was wondering if anyone has an effective ranged flying character that comes online by level 10? Mounted or self flying is fine by me, I am kind of interested in something like that as I haven't had an opportunity to try out an aerial battle yet. I was thinking Sword Bard would be easiest due to Find Greater Steed, and Mobile Flourish would let you slaughter enemy mounted flyers, while you might want to use some method of restraining to make a natural flyer fall.

Bard is not required, as I am willing to try most things. I know the Warlock was suggested as an option, in an old guide but I am not sure of a reliable method to let them fly.

Notes: 3 rare magic items at most, any printed options are OK, the game is set in Ravnica if that helps.

Orzhova Glamor Bard.

Snag find greater steed along with expertise in animal handling and athletics. Snag mounted combatant, Crack double spirit guardians and spam command "fall" on anything with wings.

[LudicSavant]

Orzhova Glamor Bard.

Snag find greater steed along with expertise in animal handling and athletics. Snag mounted combatant, Crack double spirit guardians and spam command "fall" on anything with wings.

Unfortunately doubling Spirit Guardians doesn't work. Remember: the "Range" line of a spell only defines the initial target, not all of the targets of the spell effect. Spirit Guardians initially targets you, but also targets an area. When in doubt, remember that per the general spell rules in the PHB, creatures that make a save against the spell DC are also targets of the spell. This is why (for instance) Fireball or Symbol refers to creatures caught in the area as "targets," even though Fireball initially targets a point and Symbol initially targets an object.

Some relevant references:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/06/04/if-youre-looking-for-something-to-combo-with-steed
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/22/find-steed-spells-that-target-only-you
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/5ozpwj/jeremy_crawford_on_targeting_spells/

That said, Spirit Guardians is still great and well worth flying around with. :smallsmile:

[Nhorianscum]

Unfortunately doubling Spirit Guardians doesn't work. Remember: the "Range" line of a spell only defines the initial target, not all of the targets of the spell effect. Spirit Guardians initially targets you, but also targets an area. When in doubt, remember that per the general spell rules in the PHB, creatures that make a save against the spell DC are also targets of the spell. This is why (for instance) Fireball or Symbol refers to creatures caught in the area as "targets," even though Fireball initially targets a point and Symbol initially targets an object.

Some relevant references:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/06/04/if-youre-looking-for-something-to-combo-with-steed
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/22/find-steed-spells-that-target-only-you
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/5ozpwj/jeremy_crawford_on_targeting_spells/

That said, Spirit Guardians is still great and well worth flying around with. :smallsmile:

Eh. Double SG doesn't work for more RAW reasons in that the same creature cannot be buffed/debuffed by identical spells.

It's purely for style as all of your spirits also have mounts now!

[Sol]

Why aren't Tortle's listed as a variant way for the druids to obtain okay AC?

Relatedly, any unexpectedly good/fun (preferably non-druid, since I just played a druid) Tortle builds?

[KorvinStarmast]

Friar Struk is aimed at a "Robin Hood and his Merry Men" kind of play group. Also good for urban/intrigue games.

This isn't built as an optimized anything (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/124544/22566), and there's another option I am still mulling over that starts with a Druid Magic Initiate at the beginning: because they live in Sherwood Forest.

Concept: Struk is a deceptively good brawler starting at level 2. He is also a supporter, and all around roguish cleric/unfrocked monk, starting at level 3, and Does Not Wear Armor. That's part of the theme. He uses a Quarterstaff; that's part of the theme. (Now and again a dagger or short sword will be used to pick up that bit of Sneak Attack damage, but not all that often.

Monk 1/ Rogue 1/ Cleric (Trickery) X
vHuman (PB = 11, 15, 11, 10, 15, 8); Feat = resilient Con
S 12 D 16 C 12 I 10 W 16 Ch 8
Background: Criminal.
Skills: (Monk) Athletics, Insight; (Criminal) Stealth; Deception (vH): Perception.
Tools: Dice, Disguise Kit (work this out with the DM (custom background, PHB 126) since he'll pick up thieves' tools at level 1 Rogue when he MC's ...

Build Order: Monk 1, Rogue 1; Cleric(Trickery) X

The level 2 choice to pick up Rogue, besides being thematic, is to get Expetise in Athletics. He is +5 to athletic checks (Equivalent to a fighter with 16 Str) and at Level 5 is +7 at athletic checks: with a 12 Strength. He's able to grapple or shove with some expectation of allowing his martial compadres to take adantage of proned targets.

Picks up Thieves' Tools proficiency, as well as expertise in either Deception or Persuasion.


This overcomes his generally bad Charisma somewhat - if there is a face on the party (a Robin, or an Alan Adale) he could put that expertise into Perception or Insight. As every drunken monk knows, "In Vino Veritas." :smallbiggrin: Tailor this to fit what the party could use a boost on.

The real fun comes with level 1 of Trickery Domain Cleric.
Domain Spell fun: Charm Person; Disguise Self.
Handy for situations where the player/party is trying to get past guards/soldiers/trouble.

Blessing of the Trickster: .. touch a willing creature other than yourself to give it advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks. This blessing lasts for 1 hour or until you use this feature again . (PHB, Trickery Domain) Help someone in the party go sneak in somewhere.

At Cleric Level 2: more shennanigans with a perfect double. (Channel Divinity: Invoke Duplicity)

At Cleric Level 3, we find: Mirror Image; Pass without trace
Mirror Image renders AC moot for a few rounds, since the enemy hits "not you" three times. Pass Without Trace provides some "get out of town" chances for the whole party - the Merry Men run off to hide in the forest ....

Thematic Spell Choice! Enhance Ability for advantage on Athletics Checks: shove, etc.

Bull’s Strength. The target has advantage on Strength checks, and his or her carrying capacity doubles.

Cleric Level 5: Blink, Dispel Magic
They can't hit what just blinked away (AC mitigation); Dispel Magic helps get your mates out of trouble.

Cleric level 7: Dimension Door, Polymorph
More ways to "not be there when they try to hit me" or to set up the case of "Haha, try fighting a gorilla, pal!"

Between the need for a boost in Charisma checks mentioned above, and Athletics checks, Guidance looks like a "must" cantrip for this character concept at the first level of Cleric.

ASI recommendation: boosting Wisdom at the first ASI
Spell DC and AC are both boosted at level 4 (PC level 6). I'd suggest that the following ASI also be Wisdom (PC level 10) which boosts your spell DC as well as increase your armor class to 20.

That said, applying an AI to Dexterity may be needed more "to hit" and for those Dexterity saving throws that crop up with some frequency. Already proficient in Dex saves, as being a Monk first. If by level 10 cleric is at 8, the spell DC boost makes your Save DC tougher on a wide variety of spells that can confound the enemy.
IMO, the support role unlocks at level 3/Cleric 1. Bless and Shield of Faith are important to this approach. This is for the group. Eventually boost Constitution with an ASI.

Depending on how many levels up this game goes: add another level of Monk to get a few ki points and more movement, evasion, dash options (The Friar chuckles as he taunts his foes "Betcha didn't think I was that quick!") to try and avoid hits ... or ... add another level in Rogue to use Disengage as a Cunning Action. If you are not there, you can't be hit.
If they chase you they might give allies a chance for Opportunity Attack.

What appears to be a big and beefy oaf, a hard drinking cleric ... is a bit more than he appears. Not smart, not handsome, appears to be a beefy drunk. Looks can be deceiving, and you are harder to hit than it looks.

Role: a combination of support, brawler, and trickster (though not optimized with high Charisma) who is surprisingly effective at a variety of Athletic moves, and whose spells make the party better. What's more, in the brawler theme, you have an uncommon aptitude for knocking people on their butts (Shove/Prone) so that your allies can hit them with advantage. Now and again be able to shove a foe out of a window, or off of a cliff.

[LudicSavant]

Why aren't Tortle's listed as a variant way for the druids to obtain okay AC?

Because alas, I don't own the Tortle package.

[Orc_Lord]

Thanks for posting the Hob Wizard build. I had read your thoughts on that build in another post and stalked your history to find more about it, but this is a lot more clear.

[The Grumbleputt]

This thread alone is reason enough to join this forum- thanks for your hard work and clear explanations on all of these ideas.

I'd vote for any interesting Monk ideas you cook up, but really, everything has been valuable so far.

[Klorox]

Awesome thread, I’m so glad I found it!

Question though: why do the Generalist warlock and Hobgoblin Iron Wizards aim for a 16 DEX when their armors are only effective to +2? It just seems like a waste of points when we’re concerned about point buy.

I have played a very similar arcana cleric, and loved it.

That hobgoblin and celestial warlock look so freaking cool!

[LudicSavant]

Awesome thread, I’m so glad I found it!

Question though: why do the Generalist warlock and Hobgoblin Iron Wizards aim for a 16 DEX when their armors are only effective to +2? It just seems like a waste of points when we’re concerned about point buy.

I have played a very similar arcana cleric, and loved it.

That hobgoblin and celestial warlock look so freaking cool!

Good question! It's true; raising your Dex above 14 doesn't raise your AC any further. However the choice is indeed intentional.

The reason I take it anyways is because I value Initiative (the higher the challenge level of the table, the more important it is), Dex saves, dex skills, and the occasional extra Dex-based attack at low levels, and because the +1 Dex from Moderately Armored makes it convenient. It's kinda similar to the reason why I don't like to dump Dexterity even on Strength builds; the stat is good even if you're not getting AC from it. You can easily drop it from 16 to 14 if you like (as I note in "variants" for the Iron Wizard), and spend the points somewhere else. But extra points in Dexterity are by no means wasted IMHO; it's not like investing in, say, Strength instead would have gotten you an AC bonus either.

Contrast this possible statline for the Hobgoblin Iron Wizard:
8/15/17/16/8/8

With this one:
8/14/17/16/10/8

Or this one:
8/13/17/16/10/10

All of those have the same point buy cost. #3 will make you extra vulnerable in levels 1-3 (with a weaker resourceless attack and AC). #2 is basically just exchanging +2 Dex for +2 Wis. All are viable, so you can decide between boosting Dex, Str, Wis, or Cha for character concept reasons. All of the above will basically just grant skills and saves (and init in Dex's case). And if you're starting above level 4, option 3 becomes a bit more attractive than it otherwise would be. But if not, I'm not fond of #3 because levels 1-3 are where Wizards are the least godlike.


This thread alone is reason enough to join this forum- thanks for your hard work and clear explanations on all of these ideas.

:smallredface:

[Klorox]

Good question! It's true; raising your Dex above 14 doesn't raise your AC any further. However the choice is indeed intentional.

The reason I take it anyways is because I value Initiative (the higher the challenge level of the table, the more important it is), Dex saves, dex skills, and the occasional extra Dex-based attack at low levels, and because the +1 Dex from Moderately Armored makes it convenient. It's kinda similar to the reason why I don't like to dump Dexterity even on Strength builds; the stat is good even if you're not getting AC from it. You can easily drop it from 16 to 14 if you like (as I note in "variants" for the Iron Wizard), and spend the points somewhere else. But extra points in Dexterity are by no means wasted IMHO; it's not like investing in, say, Strength instead would have gotten you an AC bonus either.

Contrast this possible statline for the Hobgoblin Iron Wizard:
8/15/17/16/8/8

With this one:
8/14/17/16/10/8

Or this one:
8/13/17/16/10/10

All of those have the same point buy cost. #3 will make you extra vulnerable in levels 1-3 (with a weaker resourceless attack and AC). #2 is basically just exchanging +2 Dex for +2 Wis. All are viable, so you can decide between boosting Dex, Str, Wis, or Cha for character concept reasons. All of the above will basically just grant skills and saves (and init in Dex's case). And if you're starting above level 4, option 3 becomes a bit more attractive than it otherwise would be. But if not, I'm not fond of #3 because levels 1-3 are where Wizards are the least godlike.



:smallredface:thanks for the response.

I agree that more DEX always helps, I just don’t value a DEX above 14 while wearing medium armor in a point buy system (especially if you have no plans of going for medium armor mastery).

I see the value you present, I just think the points help more elsewhere.

YMMV

[Lyracian]

I am loving these; what I really like is that they are mostly single class builds as I was expecting to see lots of cheeze three class combo!

2: Shield and Spear Valkyrie
I already have Find Greater Steed down for my Bard and will play this if I ever go with a Paladin. It actually makes me think of Death Ward as a Magical Secret option now.

3: Wood Elf Magic Commando
Again I love the versatility here. Very easy to adjust slightly if you wanted, for instance, to play a Human or a Rogue.
My one comment would be to add Magic Initiate as a WE Magic alternative for those not useing XGtE.
You still get Guidance and can have Goodberry as your spell. Not quite as powerful as 'Pass without Trace' but gives some versatility with healing/free food. Second cantrip could be 'Thorn Whip' for pulling opponents off squishy party members or 'Produce Flame' for rule of cool.

7: Hobgoblin Iron Wizard
This makes me look at Mountain Dwarf and feel sad. Have you thought of any good builds that make use of the free Armour proficiency they get? My only idea was the Str based Rogue/Barbarian multi-class. Taking Barbarian you gain Shield use and can fight with a Rapier to still get Sneak Attack damage while using Reckless Attack.

[Dilanio]

Any eclectic ideas for a bard/ranger build. Was thinking of a horizon Walker duelist but our group all has to start as bards. Struggling on a build. My rolled stats were actually pretty good. 10 str/ 16 dex / 15 con / 16 wis / 13 Int / 15 Cha. Was picturing a dueling master who is also an orator who tells the stories of his victories. Any thoughts on how to make this work? Seems really MAD dependent. Probably going all the way to 12 with this campaign I was told.

[Zigludo]

[Re: mountain dwarves] Have you thought of any good builds that make use of the free Armour proficiency they get? My only idea was the Str based Rogue/Barbarian multi-class. Taking Barbarian you gain Shield use and can fight with a Rapier to still get Sneak Attack damage while using Reckless Attack.

Seems redundant. Barbarians already get the medium armor proficiency that Mtn. Dwarf does.

I have seen / toyed with a very, very silly Mtn. Dwarf Draconic Sorcerer that manages not only to take advantage of the free Armour proficiency, but also Dwarven Weapon Training.

Here's the silly part: You max all your physical ability scores and dump all the mental ones. Okay, now that that's out of the way, your strategy revolves around Quickening (and Twinning, whenever available) a Booming Blade attack every single turn.

Basically you have equal melee damage output to a Fighter using a greatsword with no feats, if you can believe that. At certain breakpoints you're actually better in melee than a fighter (level 8 thanks to the ASI, level 17 thanks to cantrips jumping ahead of Fighter's extra attack.) If your opponent needs to move on its turn, you'll also out damage the Fighter that way. And if you set up Twinned Booming Blades, you'll basically always out damage the Fighter. Your survivability is marginally worse than a Fighter's. Your spell accuracy becomes quite bad, but you are super effective at maintaining concentration. In the meantime you have full spellcasting progression.

There are other variants on the same idea, like an unarmored version using Elf or Variant Human, grabbing Weapon Master for a Rapier, then maximizing DEX/CON/CHA. This version gets to add CHA modifier to damage via Green Flame Blade. But I would prefer Booming Blade generally since I find it tends to be easier to trigger the extra damage from BB than from GFB. And overall I think the Mountain Dwarf version is best, for its slightly better early damage and MUCH better early survivability.

(Plus it's funnier. I mean it's a melee sorcerer mountain dwarf with terrible mental stats who just runs at people wearing armor and hits them with his axe instead of casting spells. And it gets major swag points in my book for being mono-class with no feats.)

[Klorox]

Seems redundant. Barbarians already get the medium armor proficiency that Mtn. Dwarf does.

I have seen / toyed with a very, very silly Mtn. Dwarf Draconic Sorcerer that manages not only to take advantage of the free Armour proficiency, but also Dwarven Weapon Training.

Here's the silly part: You max all your physical ability scores and dump all the mental ones. Okay, now that that's out of the way, your strategy revolves around Quickening (and Twinning, whenever available) a Booming Blade attack every single turn.

Basically you have equal melee damage output to a Fighter using a greatsword with no feats, if you can believe that. At certain breakpoints you're actually better in melee than a fighter (level 8 thanks to the ASI, level 17 thanks to cantrips jumping ahead of Fighter's extra attack.) If your opponent needs to move on its turn, you'll also out damage the Fighter that way. And if you set up Twinned Booming Blades, you'll basically always out damage the Fighter. Your survivability is marginally worse than a Fighter's. Your spell accuracy becomes quite bad, but you are super effective at maintaining concentration. In the meantime you have full spellcasting progression.

There are other variants on the same idea, like an unarmored version using Elf or Variant Human, grabbing Weapon Master for a Rapier, then maximizing DEX/CON/CHA. This version gets to add CHA modifier to damage via Green Flame Blade. But I would prefer Booming Blade generally since I find it tends to be easier to trigger the extra damage from BB than from GFB. And overall I think the Mountain Dwarf version is best, for its slightly better early damage and MUCH better early survivability.

(Plus it's funnier. I mean it's a melee sorcerer mountain dwarf with terrible mental stats who just runs at people wearing armor and hits them with his axe instead of casting spells. And it gets major swag points in my book for being mono-class with no feats.)

This sounds great!

I want to see the total write up! LMAO

[Lyracian]

Seems redundant. Barbarians already get the medium armor proficiency that Mtn. Dwarf does.
Read page 164 a Rogue that multi-classes into Barbarian does not get armour only Shield and weapons. It is the only way to just get Shield use every other feat/class that gives shield also gives armour which overlaps with the starting proficiency.



I have seen / toyed with a very, very silly Mtn. Dwarf Draconic Sorcerer that manages not only to take advantage of the free Armour proficiency, but also Dwarven Weapon Training.

Here's the silly part: You max all your physical ability scores and dump all the mental ones. Okay, now that that's out of the way, your strategy revolves around Quickening (and Twinning, whenever available) a Booming Blade attack every single turn.
Amusing but using Medium Armour makes your Draconic Resilience AC meaningless but you do get the extra hit points and resistance and it makes good use of your Battle Axe skill.


Any eclectic ideas for a bard/ranger build. Was thinking of a horizon Walker duelist but our group all has to start as bards. Struggling on a build. My rolled stats were actually pretty good. 10 str/ 16 dex / 15 con / 16 wis / 13 Int / 15 Cha. Was picturing a dueling master who is also an orator who tells the stories of his victories. Any thoughts on how to make this work? Seems really MAD dependent. Probably going all the way to 12 with this campaign I was told.

With those stats you should be able to be anything you want! You only need Dex for weapon attacks and Charisma for Bard Spells as you are not likely to be using Ranger spells that need a save. The main question is what level split are you thinking of? Will you end up as Bard 1/Ranger 11? 4/8?

Starting Half-Elf lets you have 17 Dex and Chr pump them both to 18 at Level 4.
You could pump Int 14 and then take Res (Con) as next feat.

Human can start with Res (Con) and round Int and Chr giving you four 16's to start.

[Dilanio]

With those stats you should be able to be anything you want! You only need Dex for weapon attacks and Charisma for Bard Spells as you are not likely to be using Ranger spells that need a save. The main question is what level split are you thinking of? Will you end up as Bard 1/Ranger 11? 4/8?

See that is the thing. I don't know much about bards and while looking over their college wasn't sure if it was worthwhile to go swords or valour. Thematically I could make them work into my backstory but didn't know if by doing so I would drastically reduce my combat, scouting effectiveness.

I don't mind staying level 1 bard but we're starting at level 3 and since we're all going bards as well our DM is giving us a boon so we get to start with a feat as well.

Just struggling with fitting the bard into the ranger levels and didn't know if there were any oddball themes I could use to make a fun but effective character for the combat/ scouting parts of the campaign.

[Lyracian]

See that is the thing. I don't know much about bards and while looking over their college wasn't sure if it was worthwhile to go swords or valour. Thematically I could make them work into my backstory but didn't know if by doing so I would drastically reduce my combat, scouting effectiveness.

I don't mind staying level 1 bard but we're starting at level 3 and since we're all going bards as well our DM is giving us a boon so we get to start with a feat as well.

Just struggling with fitting the bard into the ranger levels and didn't know if there were any oddball themes I could use to make a fun but effective character for the combat/ scouting parts of the campaign.
Your character concept was "a dueling master who is also an orator who tells the stories of his victories" which makes me ask why Ranger? Bard/Ranger would be to get Archery Fighting Style, Extra Attack at Level 5 and Swift Quiver spells with Magical Secrets. I would have thought Fighter or Rogue (Swashbuckler) would give you better fit for a Duelist.

The fighter level is best taken as the first level for the character to grant proficiency in con saves and heavy armor. Fighter 2 gives action surge. Eldritch Knight is a way for a bard to get shield spell, without taking sorcerer levels or using a magical secret and means your Fighter levels give you extra spell slots. Sword Bard gives you a second Fighting Style and some Flourish moves.

Start with Defense (+1 AC) Style from Fighter and then take Dueling at level 4 Character when you are Fighter 1/Bard 3. After that it depend if you want more Fighting or more Spells. Remember if you go to Level 6 Bard you do not want to go past Level 4 Fighter (or the other way around if you take lots of Fighter) as Extra Attacks do not stack.

[LudicSavant]

Conceptually, "duelist" can mean an awful lot of things. Spell duels are a thing, for instance.

If you want to be a Bard that dabbles in hitting people, I would recommend a Swords, Valor, or Whispers Bard. The first two are the ones that people conventionally look at first when they think "Bard with a weapon," but Whispers Bard will actually grant you some great synergy with Booming Blade if you can pick it up (such as by a level 1 Hexblade dip that will make you Cha-SAD, or by being a SCAG-variant Half-Elf).

I actually kind of like this for the "Duelist" concept. Maybe it's just that L5R 1e was one of the first TTRPGs I really got into, but when I think of a duelist I think of the man or woman preparing for a single ceremonial fight, who seeks to end their opponent in a single clean, masterful strike. Possibly with them dying at the moment they sheathe their sword :smallwink:. And for that the BB Whispers Bard can actually do pretty well (right down to the possibility of them dying after your turn ends, from the rider).

A single-class Half-Elf Whispers Bard getting Advantage on a single attack (much easier than getting Advantage on all of your attacks, because something like a Familiar can do it) can do something like use Booming Blade + Psychic Blades + Elven Accuracy to dish out significant damage (with a high crit chance for all of those dice). They also keep their bonus action open, so they can throw on something like, I don't know, Banishing Smite and reliably take out a 150 hp creature in a single stroke (at higher levels). Not bad at all for a backup action for a full spellcaster (which also means you can make a fine spellduelist).

_______


Next build will probably be one of the following:

- A build I've taken to referring to as "the soulknife." A stealthy, unarmored frontliner Eldritch Knight / War Wizard build that's durable, sticky, high DPR, lots of utility, and about as gear-independent as it gets. They basically summon all of their armaments using abilities like Mage Armor and Shadow Blade. One of the upshots of using Mage Armor is that you can get the AC of plate while using a Dex build, and retain full stealth capabilities. Combines great with the "Shape Element" and Minor Illusion cantrips since they don't have Verbal components.

- A Shadar-Kai Sharpshooter Samurai, because I got asked about it earlier. A simple yet very reliable DPR core for any party that scales incredibly well with buffs/party synergy. I consider Samurai to be one of the Fighter subclasses with the highest potential (along with Battlemaster and Eldritch Knight), and the post would highlight why along with DPR analysis and the like.

- the Cha/Int blaster Wizard build I'm currently playing in a long-term campaign (running from tier 1-4). Basically my take on the so-called "Nuclear Wizard" build which can potentially out-blast Sorlocks, come online faster, and retain all the versatility of being a Wizard. And doesn't require Coffeelocking or anything of that sort. The one I'm playing right now is an Asmodeus Tiefling, but the optimized version would probably be something else, like Yuan-Ti (for whom the Cha/Int typing is actually what you want for a change).

- A Shifter Inquisitor of the Silver Flame. A blaster/hunter Cleric from Eberron that brings a lot of damage and detection abilities.

If any of those sound interesting lemme know.

[Sparky McDibben]

Next build will probably be one of the following:

- A build I've taken to referring to as "the soulknife." A stealthy, unarmored frontliner Eldritch Knight / War Wizard build that's durable, sticky, high DPR, lots of utility, and about as gear-independent as it gets. They basically summon all of their armaments using abilities like Mage Armor and Shadow Blade. One of the upshots of using Mage Armor is that you can get the AC of plate while using a Dex build, and retain full stealth capabilities. Combines great with the "Shape Element" and Minor Illusion cantrips since they don't have Verbal components.

- A Shadar-Kai Sharpshooter Samurai, because I got asked about it earlier. A simple yet very reliable DPR core for any party that scales incredibly well with buffs/party synergy. I consider Samurai to be one of the Fighter subclasses with the highest potential (along with Battlemaster and Eldritch Knight), and the post would highlight why along with DPR analysis and the like.

- the Cha/Int blaster Wizard build I'm currently playing in a long-term campaign (running from tier 1-4). Basically my take on the so-called "Nuclear Wizard" build which can potentially out-blast Sorlocks, come online faster, and retain all the versatility of being a Wizard. And doesn't require Coffeelocking or anything of that sort. The one I'm playing right now is an Asmodeus Tiefling, but the optimized version would probably be something else, like Yuan-Ti (for whom the Cha/Int typing is actually what you want for a change).

- A Shifter Inquisitor of the Silver Flame. A blaster/hunter Cleric from Eberron that brings a lot of damage and detection abilities.

If any of those sound interesting lemme know.

Literally all of these sound like a lot of fun, but I'm most interested in options 1 and 3.

[Zigludo]

Read page 164 a Rogue that multi-classes into Barbarian does not get armour only Shield and weapons. It is the only way to just get Shield use every other feat/class that gives shield also gives armour which overlaps with the starting proficiency.


Yeah. I only meant that you could instead start Barbarian, get the medium armor proficiency that way, and then multi-class into the Rogue. (This also nets you an extra two hit points.) The mountain dwarf synergy feels less like "Mountain Dwarf Barbarian/Rogue gets to use medium armor," and more like "Mountain Dwarf Barbarian/Rogue gets to start Rogue and pick up an extra skill, along with Dexterity/Intelligence saving throw proficiency instead of the Barbarian's Strength/Constitution saving throws." But it is a valid synergy.



Amusing but using Medium Armour makes your Draconic Resilience AC meaningless but you do get the extra hit points and resistance and it makes good use of your Battle Axe skill.

Indeed. For what it's worth, though, Sorcerers don't start at level 1 with scale mail; just the clothes on their back. So it does give you 3 extra AC until you can actually buy or find armor.

It's difficult to take advantage of all Mountain Dwarf features at the same time without encountering redundancies. The Strength Sorcerer is the only one I've found that uses them all: Strength, Constitution, Armor and Weapon Training. I recommended Draconic Bloodline because I think the 1 extra HP per level is more helpful to the melee game-plan than the features of any other subclass are. Most of them have nothing helpful for melee at all - Sorcerer was obviously not designed for melee combat. To minimize redundancy and maximize elegance, pick Divine Soul for Bless and its ability to add 2d4 to an attack roll once per rest.


This sounds great!

I want to see the total write up! LMAO

Well, it won't be much longer; there isn't much more to say. Gameplay is quite simple. You can't multiclass thanks to your dumped CHA, and it doesn't require any feats, so the build progression is pretty straightforward. If you're curious to see the guts of the build, I guess I could write up numerical comparisons for damage output and survivability vs optimized GWM / PAM fighters (spoiler: they compare favorably), and then list a couple of notes about the Elf/Half-Elf/V. Human compromises (basically, better casting for less melee damage / survivability).

[Lyracian]

Yeah. I only meant that you could instead start Barbarian, get the medium armor proficiency that way, and then multi-class into the Rogue. (This also nets you an extra two hit points.) The mountain dwarf synergy feels less like "Mountain Dwarf Barbarian/Rogue gets to use medium armor," and more like "Mountain Dwarf Barbarian/Rogue gets to start Rogue and pick up an extra skill, along with Dexterity/Intelligence saving throw proficiency instead of the Barbarian's Strength/Constitution saving throws." But it is a valid synergy.You are actually trading 4 HP for the Extra Skill by starting Rogue. I never tried to claim it was optimal only that it makes use of the Dwarven Medium Armour and Strength bonus. For actual play you might want to start with 17 Str and rush to Rogue 4 first to get the ASI then take Barbarian at Level 5? Final build would be Rogue 12/Barb 8.



Indeed. For what it's worth, though, Sorcerers don't start at level 1 with scale mail; just the clothes on their back. So it does give you 3 extra AC until you can actually buy or find armor.
I would assume with an unusual character plan you wold roll for starting cash 3d4 ~70-80 Gold; Scale and Battleaxe are 60 which leaves change.

I think your Dwarf has an AC 16 and gets to do D10 damage with two handed Battleaxe? Personally I would not let you twin Booming Blade; well you could Twin it but it would fail as you do not get a second Melee attack to activate it. Might work if you were duel-wielding. I think the Elf with Short Sword makes better use of the Draconic Armour and gets a higher overall AC once you pump Dex. Either way it is a cool idea.




- A Shadar-Kai Sharpshooter Samurai
- the Cha/Int blaster Wizard build
If any of those sound interesting lemme know.
Blaster Caster sounds interesting as does Samurai. Would be good if you added a variant/notes for those of us who only play PHB races.

[Zigludo]

You are actually trading 4 HP for the Extra Skill by starting Rogue.
It looks like it should be 4 extra HP, doesn't it? But actually it's 2. It threw me off too, I had to run the math myself to make sure.

EDIT: That is a Rogue1/Barbarian1 with 10 Constitution who started Rogue has 15 hit points. A Rogue1/Barbarian1 with 10 Constitution who started Barbarian has 17 hit points. Obviously at 1st level the difference is 4 hit points



I think your Dwarf has an AC 16 and gets to do D10 damage with two handed Battleaxe? Personally I would not let you twin Booming Blade; well you could Twin it but it would fail as you do not get a second Melee attack to activate it.

Feel free to run it that way at your table, but per RAW RAI and Sage Advice, it works. The attack with the melee weapon is a part of the spell, which then gets twinned into two attacks the same way Fire Bolt does.


I think the Elf with Short Sword makes better use of the Draconic Armour and gets a higher overall AC once you pump Dex. Either way it is a cool idea.
It has upsides. Since it uses Dexterity to attack instead of Strength, it is less MAD than the Mountain Dwarf version and can afford to put points into Charisma instead. Best with Shadar Kai or Sea Elf for that nice Constitution point. But the Mountain Dwarf version is quite a bit stronger early, gains a bonus point for not being dependent on the feat rule for weapon damage (which is optional), and is a lot more unorthodox / entertaining to me :smalltongue:

[Dilanio]

Your character concept was "a dueling master who is also an orator who tells the stories of his victories" which makes me ask why Ranger? Bard/Ranger would be to get Archery Fighting Style, Extra Attack at Level 5 and Swift Quiver spells with Magical Secrets. I would have thought Fighter or Rogue (Swashbuckler) would give you better fit for a Duelist.

I fully agree with your fighter / rogue observation. So why Ranger? This will be my second game and my first game was well incredibly dull for me as I was overshadowed by a couple Paladins who became the faces of our party as well as our primary combatants.

For my second game I wanted to go for a Ranger and be the scout for the party and originally I was going to Gloomstalker / Scout; and had a build and backstory worked out. Well we rolled our characters and a couple people wanted to be bards. I suggested an all bard party would be fun and the DM said if we all took one dip in bard we would get some boons for doing so. Not wanting to be the odd man out I agreed. My original class is the only one that doesn't really fit the bard build but I really had my heart set on a ranger build so I'm trying to make it work

[Klorox]

It has upsides. Since it uses Dexterity to attack instead of Strength, it is less MAD than the Mountain Dwarf version and can afford to put points into Charisma instead. Best with Shadar Kai or Sea Elf for that nice Constitution point. But the Mountain Dwarf version is quite a bit stronger early, gains a bonus point for not being dependent on the feat rule for weapon damage (which is optional), and is a lot more unorthodox / entertaining to me :smalltongue:

What’s the feat rule for weapon damage? I’m a little lost.

[Zigludo]

What’s the feat rule for weapon damage? I’m a little lost.

Sorry, I just meant that, in order to gain proficiency with a finesse weapon that deals higher damage (ideally a rapier), a Sea Elf or Shadar Kai would need to use the Weapon Master Feat, and that feats are an optional rule that not every table uses. (Or they could multiclass, but that's also an optional rule.) Otherwise they're stuck with daggers (d4). V. Humans can also just start with Weapon Master and get Rapiers that way.

High Elves get the shortsword without a feat, but I don't prefer that because they have lower constitution than Shadar Kai / Sea Elves, and the shortsword also does a bit less damage (d6) than the rapier (d8).

The mountain dwarf gets to use a battleaxe (d10 in both hands) right off the bat. (Also the mountain dwarf sticks to the Adventurer's League's PHB + 1 restriction. The only non-PHB content it needs is Booming Blade.)

[LudicSavant]

So just thought I'd leave some basic DPR benchmarks here, so that we can compare other builds to them later and offer a basic sense of scale. Unless otherwise noted all calculations are against a target with the "typical" AC for a monster of level = CR according to the DMG (so for example, if it's a level 20 build it's DPR vs AC 19), crit chance and the like are accounted for, and decimal results are rounded to the nearest tenth.

Note that there are a lot of calculations here, so hopefully I didn't have a typo anywhere. If I made a mistake somewhere, please correct me.

Basic Sorlock DPR Math
First, the Sorcerer/Hexblade's EB combo from "Boss Damage Combination at Max Level" from this guide (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?596310-GUIDE-The-Sorlock-%96-Guide-to-the-tormented-divine-soul-with-Xanathar-s-Divine-Soul(17)-Hexblade(3)). Note that the guide's calculation doesn't take into account variables like hit chance and the like. I did.
Round 1 (EB+HC): 45.1 DPR
Round 2 (EB+HC+Hex): 55.6 DPR
Round 3+ (EB*2+HC+Hex): 111.2 DPR
Average DPR if they get 3 full rounds of blasting the same target (and only in that case, because everything takes bonus actions to change targets, and you can't prebuff any of this): (45.1+55.6+111.2)/3 = 70.6 DPR

Note that the 70.6 DPR requires you be using 1/SR Hexblade's Curse, Hex, and 2 sorcery points and to be attacking the same target for 3 entire rounds... meaning you can't be killing them all that fast, and you can't switch to another target after they go down (at least, not without decreasing your DPR). If they go down on round 2, for example, you only contributed an average of ~50.4 DPR across those two rounds.
Basic GWM Champion DPR Math
Numbers are a Champion with 20 Strength, Great Weapon Master, Superior Critical, Great Weapon Fighting, and a greatsword. Note that this calculation includes everything, right down to the chance of getting a bonus action attack from Great Weapon Master.

At level 20 exactly:
4 attacks (resourceless DPR): 47.4 DPR
4 attacks (Advantage on all attacks): 81.5 DPR
8 attacks (Action Surge): 92.4 DPR
8 attacks (Advantage Action Surge): 153.9 DPR

It's noteworthy that Fighters get a big DPR jump at exactly level 20, so it's often more helpful to know their DPR before they get that fourth attack. So for example, here's the numbers for level 19:

At level 19:
3 attacks (resourceless DPR): 35.8 DPR
w/ Advantage: 62.5 DPR
Action Surge (Nova DPR): 70.1 DPR
w/ Advantage: 118.3 DPR
Bloodcloud's Eldritch Blast Knight:
Based on the build posted here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23868773&postcount=90

At level 17+
Listed "at will" combo: 34.8 DPR vs AC 19 (47.8 w/ Advantage)
Listed "nova" combo: 76.4 DPR vs AC 19 (105.3 w/ Advantage

Basic GWM Bear-barian
Entering rage with bonus action and using Reckless Attack for Advantage, Brutal Criticals, Great Weapon Master, and a greataxe (since it actually does a little better DPR than greatsword due to Brutal Criticals)

At level 19: 37.7 DPR (41.2 if rage is already activated and so they get an extra bonus action attack on crit)
At exactly level 20 (w/capstone): 46.3 DPR (50.6 if rage is already activated and so they get an extra bonus action attack on crit)
Ancestral Nightmare
Build posted here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23917496&postcount=103

All figures using Reckless Attack (or otherwise getting Advantage) vs AC 19

SnB Rage Only: 34.5 DPR, 48.5 w/ Vengeful Ancestors (plus 14 damage reduction and Resistance for ally on top of that)
SnB Nova: 86.9 DPR / 100.9 w/ VA
SnB Nova w/ Commander's Strike (sample ally is generic subclassless Rogue 20): 114.8 DPR / 128.8 w/ VA
GWM variant: 112.3 DPR / 126.3 w/ VA

Note: The build has Lucky, but these formulas aren't using the Lucky rerolls for its DPR calcs.

Anydice Formula: https://anydice.com/program/15c00


Might edit in more calcs later.

[Lyracian]

originally I was going to Gloomstalker / Scout; and had a build and backstory worked out.
My original class is the only one that doesn't really fit the bard build but I really had my heart set on a ranger build so I'm trying to make it work
I would go with Human and take the Gloom Stalker route. Aim to finish as Bard (Swords) 8/Gloom 4. That gives you 3 ASI.
If you start with Bard 1/ Ranger 2 you get the Fighting Style. Level 6 Swords gives you extra Attack and the four levels of Ranger give you two spell levels so your spell slots are the same as a tenth level single class caster character.


It looks like it should be 4 extra HP, isn't it? But actually it's 2. It threw me off too, I had to run the math myself to make sure.
EDIT: That is a Rogue1/Barbarian1 with 10 Constitution who started Rogue has 15 hit points. A Rogue1/Barbarian1 with 10 Constitution who started Barbarian has 17 hit points. Obviously at 1st level the difference is 4 hit points
There you go doing more work on my build idea than I have! Was just looking at the Hit Dice without thinking how it went leveled up. 2 HP for a Skill makes it seem even better now. I might even spend a bit of time and write this up.


Feel free to run it that way at your table, but per RAW RAI and Sage Advice, it works. The attack with the melee weapon is a part of the spell, which then gets twinned into two attacks the same way Fire Bolt does.RAI is opinion and I do not want to derail this excellent threat with an argument about RAW. If you want to link a Sage Advice I will read it but I would not allow this to work in any game I ran.


It has upsides. Since it uses Dexterity to attack instead of Strength, it is less MAD than the Mountain Dwarf version and can afford to put points into Charisma instead. Best with Shadar Kai or Sea Elf for that nice Constitution point. But the Mountain Dwarf version is quite a bit stronger early, gains a bonus point for not being dependent on the feat rule for weapon damage (which is optional), and is a lot more unorthodox / entertaining to me :smalltongue:I prefer my characters to be a little bit more well rounded so not sure I could bring myself to play this as an Elf or a Dwarf but I do prefer the Elf as they have other options. I like to be reasonably optimised with character but I am not worried about the 2 point average damage different between the Short Sword and Battleaxe when I can get so much more out the the character for such a small change. I do not have the other source books so do not know anything about the other races you list.

[Zene]

Your thoughts on builds are fantastic, thanks so much for sharing them!

I’d love to see the Int/Cha wizard blaster build you mentioned.

[Zigludo]

RAI is opinion and I do not want to derail this excellent threat with an argument about RAW. If you want to link a Sage Advice I will read it but I would not allow this to work in any game I ran.

Of course not, neither do I. I just mean I wouldn't want to write up a build if I wasn't certain it was legal. I'll leave it at Sage Advice. The first link I've provided confirms that it works per "rules as Sage Advice", the second two are just helpful for those reading who aren't sure how to adjudicate it in their own game.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/12/22/is-is-possible-to-twin-spell-booming-blade/
[Crawford says: "yes, TS works". Although he says so in his characteristic evasive Crawford-y way.]

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/08/11/with-twinned-spells-do-you-need-to-roll-1-attack-roll-or-two/
[Mearls: Roll two attack rolls for Twinned Spells that include an attack roll.]

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/05/22/if-my-green-flame-blade-is-counterspelled-do-i-still-get-to-make-a-normal-melee-attack/
[Crawford: The melee weapon attack is included in the effects of the spell.]

EDIT: Then again the melee Sorcerer builds are mostly dependent on Quickening Booming Blade, not Twinning it, so this is something of a side issue.

[koeuji]

Relatively new DnD player and these single class build write-ups have been really helpful and informative. Would love to see more of these, especially the Shadarkai samurai build.

Also, what would be a recommended spell list for the Hobgoblin Iron Wizard? Are there any must-have spells or would the generic wizard build spell lists be fine?

[Klorox]

Good question! It's true; raising your Dex above 14 doesn't raise your AC any further. However the choice is indeed intentional.

The reason I take it anyways is because I value Initiative (the higher the challenge level of the table, the more important it is), Dex saves, dex skills, and the occasional extra Dex-based attack at low levels, and because the +1 Dex from Moderately Armored makes it convenient. It's kinda similar to the reason why I don't like to dump Dexterity even on Strength builds; the stat is good even if you're not getting AC from it. You can easily drop it from 16 to 14 if you like (as I note in "variants" for the Iron Wizard), and spend the points somewhere else. But extra points in Dexterity are by no means wasted IMHO; it's not like investing in, say, Strength instead would have gotten you an AC bonus either.

Contrast this possible statline for the Hobgoblin Iron Wizard:
8/15/17/16/8/8

With this one:
8/14/17/16/10/8

Or this one:
8/13/17/16/10/10

All of those have the same point buy cost. #3 will make you extra vulnerable in levels 1-3 (with a weaker resourceless attack and AC). #2 is basically just exchanging +2 Dex for +2 Wis. All are viable, so you can decide between boosting Dex, Str, Wis, or Cha for character concept reasons. All of the above will basically just grant skills and saves (and init in Dex's case). And if you're starting above level 4, option 3 becomes a bit more attractive than it otherwise would be. But if not, I'm not fond of #3 because levels 1-3 are where Wizards are the least godlike.



:smallredface:

I also wanted to add another option for stats:

9/13/15/16/14/8

This will eventually result in:

9/14/16/20/14/8

Your most important saves are CON, DEX and WIS. You’re proficient in two out of the three.

That being said, perhaps the best array is:

8/15/17/16/8/8

Eventually becoming:

8/16/18/20/8/8

I just like the more even stats across the board.

I’m not sure if I’d actually play this build, but I do like it.

My fear is I’d be staring at that 16 INT until level 11, which is too long.

Focusing on AC is something you really don’t *need* to do as a wizard (it is nice though).

[Bloodcloud]

I've posted him a few times already, but this sounds like a good place to re-post:

The Eldritch Blast Knight

VHuman fighter (eldritch Knight) 7 Warlock (Infernal/Tome) 13

An unconventional gish build. Switch seemlessly from long range to melee range, push your enemies around into hazards or away from your squishies. With quick access to 3rd level slots, you get access to a good range of spells for decent area attacks (fireball) or control (Hunger of hadar) or movement (misty step/fly), even maybe counterspelling depending on your need. Action surge at level 7 gives you some nova potential, and hex with a great concentration check makes for some very decent sustained damage potential. Heavy armor and shield, coupled with thp on kil;s and decent hit dice, means you are not going down easy and can tank with the best of them. Access to all ritual spells and a familiar make you usefull outside of combat, and a high charisma score means you can be a decent party face.

Stats
15 Str /10 Dex /14 Con /8 Int / 10 Wis / Cha 16


Overview:
Lvl 1: Vhuman Fighter 1 (feat: crossbow expert) (defense fighting style)
Lvl 2-6: Warlock (Fiend) (Tome) Pick up Eldritch blast with repelling and Agonizing blast, grab Booming blade and Shillelagh cantrip. Grab Warcaster for your ASI.
Lvl 7-12: Fighter (Eldritch knight). Max Charisma with the ASIs.
13-15: more warlock.

At level 5: You are Fighter 1 Warlock 4.
You are wearing heavy armor and shield with defense style, 21 AC with plate and 40 HP. On a kill you get 7 thp, and bonus action heal for 1d10+1 means you are fairly self sufficient for HP and can take tanking duty.
You cast Eldritch blast in melee and at range as you want, for a very stable 2d10 +6 damage per turn. The cool feature here is you can use this to push enemies 20 ft away where you want. Being in melee makes controlling the angle of the pushing quite easy, and adds a tactical layer regular fighters don't have.
You have proficiency in concentration (so +5) and advantage on those check, so you can maintain hex no problem. Next level you get third level slots, so that Hex can last 8 hour.
You have two 2nd level spell slot which recharge on a short rest.
For attack of opportunity, Booming blade delivered through you shillelagh is the key (2d8+3 and another 2d8 from the secondary). Pre-cast shillelagh anytime you think a fight might break out in the next minute, as you've got competition for that bonus action with Hex.
You might also burn a slot on Hellish rebuke if you fancy it.
Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh.

At level 11:
You are Warlock 5 Fighter 6.
Your Charisma is now maxed.
Your AC is still at least 21, and you got Shield 3 first level slot per day to raise it to 26 when needed (or to cast Absorb elements). HP is at a respectable 87, with THP on kills of 10. You can heal 1d10 + 6 as a bonus action. You can take tanking duty no problem.

Eldritch blast is now at 3d10 + 15, which is pretty great at-will damage with a push rider of 10 feet per attack. With Hex, 3d10 + 15 + 3d6. But you also have Action surge and up to 8 hour of Hex with a single cast. So you got a once a short rest nova of 6d10+30+6d6 with 60 feet of potential pushing. That is pretty brutal and useable both in melee and at range.

Your fifth warlock level came with an extra invocation, so you need to choose: Devil sight opens the Darkness shenanigan, Book of ancient secrets gives you access to nearly all rituals in the game (including a familiar), or at-will silent image or disguise self... you decide, but you've got quite a few choice, depending on your party to open up your usefulness.
Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step, Fireball, Shield, Absorb element, Magic missile, protection from evil and good.
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mage Hand, Message.

Level 12 you get two level 2 spell slots and War magic. Why? To use your staff to attack the enemy once more after casting eldritch blast, and trigger Hex one more time! So now, your at-will damage is 3d10+15 +1d8 +5 (with shillelagh active). You do have a bit of competition for bonus action, so it,s not gonna come toghether perfectly all the time.

At level 18
You are Warlock 11 Fighter 7.
On top of all the above, if you now have your fourth blast, so the fighter is jealous he's got less attack than you.

You have 3 level 5 spell slot that recharge on a short rest, 4 level 1 slot and 2 level 2 slots on long rest, and a 6th level spel with your Mystic arcanum. The ranger, paladin and eldritch knight are super jealous at your spellpower, and your at-will damage (4d10+20 + 1d8+5) is more than a match to theirs, and your short rest nova (8d10+40 + 8d6) is nothing to sneeze at. Hex is now 24 hours long.

5 invocations gives you some versatility.

Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step, Fireball, Counterspell, Fly, Shadow of Moil, Firewall, Hold monster, Synaptic Static, Soul cage (Arcanum)
From Eldritch knight: Shield, Absorb element, Magic missile, Protection from evil and good, Darkness
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mage Hand, Message, Chill touch

On your next two level, you get a 7th level spell

[Klorox]

I like it!

What’s EK 7 give the build?

[Bloodcloud]

I like it!

What’s EK 7 give the build?

War magic, to combine with eldritch blast, an additionnal first level spell slot and 2 2nd level spell slot, and a spell known.

[LudicSavant]

I've posted him a few times already, but this souns like a good place to re-post:

The Eldritch Blast Knight

VHuman fighter (eldritch Knight) 7 Warlock (Infernal/Tome) 13

An unconventional gish build. Switch seemlessly from long range to melee range, push your enemies around into hazards or away from your squishies. With quick access to 3rd level slots, you get access to a good range of spells for decent area attacks (fireball) or control (Hunger of hadar) or movement (misty step/fly), even maybe counterspelling depending on your need. Action surge at level 7 gives you some nova potential, and hex with a great concentration check makes for some very decent sustained damage potential. Heavy armor and shield, coupled with thp on kil;s and decent hit dice, means you are not going down easy and can tank with the best of them. Access to all ritual spells and a familiar make you usefull outside of combat, and a high charisma score means you can be a decent party face.

Stats
15 Str /10 Dex /14 Con /8 Int / 10 Wis / Cha 16


Overview:
Lvl 1: Vhuman Fighter 1 (feat: crossbow expert) (defense fighting style)
Lvl 2-6: Warlock (Fiend) (Tome) Pick up Eldritch blast with repelling and Agonizing blast, grab Booming blade and Shillelagh cantrip. Grab Warcaster for your ASI.
Lvl 7-12: Fighter (Eldritch knight). Max Charisma with the ASIs.
13-15: more warlock.

At level 5: You are Fighter 1 Warlock 4.
You are wearing heavy armor and shield with defense style, 21 AC with plate and 40 HP. On a kill you get 7 thp, and bonus action heal for 1d10+1 means you are fairly self sufficient for HP and can take tanking duty.
You cast Eldritch blast in melee and at range as you want, for a very stable 2d10 +6 damage per turn. The cool feature here is you can use this to push enemies 20 ft away where you want. Being in melee makes controlling the angle of the pushing quite easy, and adds a tactical layer regular fighters don't have.
You have proficiency in concentration (so +5) and advantage on those check, so you can maintain hex no problem. Next level you get third level slots, so that Hex can last 8 hour.
You have two 2nd level spell slot which recharge on a short rest.
For attack of opportunity, Booming blade delivered through you shillelagh is the key (2d8+3 and another 2d8 from the secondary). Pre-cast shillelagh anytime you think a fight might break out in the next minute, as you've got competition for that bonus action with Hex.
You might also burn a slot on Hellish rebuke if you fancy it.
Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh.

At level 11:
You are Warlock 5 Fighter 6.
Your Charisma is now maxed.
Your AC is still at least 21, and you got Shield 3 first level slot per day to raise it to 26 when needed (or to cast Absorb elements). HP is at a respectable 87, with THP on kills of 10. You can heal 1d10 + 6 as a bonus action. You can take tanking duty no problem.

Eldritch blast is now at 3d10 + 15, which is pretty great at-will damage with a push rider of 10 feet per attack. With Hex, 3d10 + 15 + 3d6. But you also have Action surge and up to 8 hour of Hex with a single cast. So you got a once a short rest nova of 6d10+30+6d6 with 60 feet of potential pushing. That is pretty brutal and useable both in melee and at range.

Your fifth warlock level came with an extra invocation, so you need to choose: Devil sight opens the Darkness shenanigan, Book of ancient secrets gives you access to nearly all rituals in the game (including a familiar), or at-will silent image or disguise self... you decide, but you've got quite a few choice, depending on your party to open up your usefulness.
Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step, Fireball, Shield, Absorb element, Magic missile, protection from evil and good.
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mage Hand, Message.

Level 12 you get two level 2 spell slots and War magic. Why? To use your staff to attack the enemy once more after casting eldritch blast, and trigger Hex one more time! So now, your at-will damage is 3d10+15 +1d8 +5 (with shillelagh active). You do have a bit of competition for bonus action, so it,s not gonna come toghether perfectly all the time.

At level 18
You are Warlock 11 Fighter 7.
On top of all the above, if you now have your fourth blast, so the fighter is jealous he's got less attack than you.

You have 3 level 5 spell slot that recharge on a short rest, 4 level 1 slot and 2 level 2 slots on long rest, and a 6th level spel with your Mystic arcanum. The ranger, paladin and eldritch knight are super jealous at your spellpower, and your at-will damage (4d10+20 + 1d8+5) is more than a match to theirs, and your short rest nova (8d10+40 + 8d6) is nothing to sneeze at. Hex is now 24 hours long.

5 invocations gives you some versatility.

Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step, Fireball, Counterspell, Fly, Shadow of Moil, Firewall, Hold monster, Synaptic Static, Soul cage (Arcanum)
From Eldritch knight: Shield, Absorb element, Magic missile, Protection from evil and good, Darkness
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mage Hand, Message, Chill touch

On your next two level, you get a 7th level spell

Thanks for posting this.

Looks like DPR after hit chance / etc (using the same standards as post #81) would be... lessee...

The stated "at-will" combo would be 34.8 DPR vs AC 19 (47.8 w/ Advantage)
The stated "nova" combo would be 76.4 DPR vs AC 19 (105.3 w/ Advantage)

Does that look about right?

[Bloodcloud]

Thanks for posting this.

Looks like DPR after hit chance / etc (using the same standards as post #81) would be... lessee...

The stated "at-will" combo would be 34.8 DPR vs AC 19 (47.8 w/ Advantage)
The stated "nova" combo would be 76.4 DPR vs AC 19 (105.3 w/ Advantage)

Does that look about right?

I think so? Haven’t calculated fully. Just looked at tue raw number compared to benchmark (like snb eldritch knight, gwm paladin, bladesinger)

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

I was actually just theory crafting a melee Celestial Tomelock and was surprised to see such a thing as your first build.

If you were to lean more into melee than ranged, though (I don't want to pick up EB at all, I already have two SS Archer types and the style is too similar) how would you adjust it? I was considering grabbing Mobile, Warcaster, and polearm Master to be able to get in, hit them, then get out and hit them again if they approach, all probably with booming blade or green flame blade damage.

Alternatively, was considering a dip into life cleric for armor, a couple slots, and powered up heals. Divine Sorcerer was an option too, for potential doubled up attacks even before opportunity attacks.

Probably a build that would work better as a Divine Soul 3/Hexblade X Pact of the Tome, but I was trying to lean a bit into the healer aspect and get something extra out of fire/radiant damage.

I'm just trying to build away from the Hexblade Pact of the Blade rut.

[Tallytrev813]

Saving for future

[LudicSavant]

Relatively new DnD player and these single class build write-ups have been really helpful and informative. Would love to see more of these, especially the Shadarkai samurai build.

Also, what would be a recommended spell list for the Hobgoblin Iron Wizard? Are there any must-have spells or would the generic wizard build spell lists be fine?

Pretty much anything that's good for a typical control Wizard is good for the IW. Things like Sleet Storm, Silent Image, and the like. Spells from the Abjuration school are a bit more useful than normal, as noted in the spoiler block. But overall Abjurers don't massively change up which spells are ideal the way that, say, an Evoker does.

If I had to name some "must-haves" it'd be...

- Shield, Absorb Elements, Globe of Invulnerability, Alarm, Banishment, Counterspell and Protection from Evil are all fantastic Abjuration spells that you can easily afford to add to your spellbook thanks to Abjuration Savant. They would all be worth casting on their own, but provide extra benefits when used by Abjurers (such as recharging your ward).
- The action economy / resource efficiency spells. Things like Find Familiar, Contingency, Simulacrum, etc.
- Misty Step.
- I strongly recommend picking up a bunch of rituals and using them liberally. Unseen Servant, Phantom Steed, Comprehend Languages, Water Breathing, etc. Remember that you can cast rituals while moving (e.g. the party does not need to take a ten minute break) and that they don't take up preparation slots. You can just always have an Unseen Servant following you around, or the like. And while you might not need to breathe water all the time, come on, it lasts 24 hours and affects the whole party. Learning the spell basically means "the whole party now has the ability to breathe underwater, forever."

When it comes to team buff spells, this is always going to be party-composition dependent. You need to look at your party members' builds and figure out what spells benefit them the most.

[Ritorix]

https://i.imgur.com/gP0JPiH.jpg

The Passive Soul
Passive combat support to boost your party from 1 to 20

The passive soul focuses on stacking hitpoints, redistributing damage, and healing the desperate. It maximizes action economy by keeping the party up and fighting longer, by making their actions more effective, and by getting the most out of your spells.

The passive soul gets going straight from level 1 and plays through 20. Spell selection is the most important part of building a sorcerer and the build's spell selections are optimal right from the start. I'll go into excessive detail on which spells make the cut. Other aspects of the character, like background and skills, are largely irrelevant to the build.


Tactics

Prior to combat, buff your party. Explain to your DM and your party that this will be a regular thing, and not to skip past it. Don't forget. Every day, and whenever you need to during the day, use Inspiring Leader. As you gain levels, your morning routine may include Extended Mage Armor, Extended Aid, and Extended Death Ward. Eventually you may also prepare a daily Heroes' Feast.

During combat, the default first turn is spent on Bless. It needs to happen early in a fight for maximum effect. The range is only 30 feet and turn 1 has the best chance of your allies being close to you. Make sure you always Bless yourself for the concentration bonus, especially prior to gaining War Caster. If you move this round, make sure to stay near your future Warding Bond target.

Turn 2 tends to be a Warding Bond. Have a chat with your default Bond target before the game, explaining what is going to happen and emphasizing the 60' distance limit. The trickiest part is getting close enough to touch the target without putting yourself at risk of melee. Bond is not always required and sometimes it's a really bad idea (if facing AOE damage, swarms or environmental effects that might damage you too). Once Bond is up, your default action on other turns is Blade Ward to reduce incoming damage to yourself from the Bond. If you need instant protection, you can cast both Bond and a Quickened Blade Ward.

The remainder of your spell list is reactionary in nature. Healing spells, Sanctuary, Absorb Elements, Counterspell, Revivify, Polymorph, etc. For these you have to weigh the situation and your remaining resources. Many are good candidates to Twin.

Sanctuary has the highest learning curve for effective use. It can really save yourself or an ally if they are focused. If you are casting Sanc on yourself and can Twin it to an ally, do it, even if just to disrupt an enemy turn or two. You'll also have to learn how your DM reacts to Sanc. Do they attack anyway and possibly lose the action? Do they use metagame knowledge for their monsters and move on to another target?


Level by Level

+ is a gained spell
- is a discarded spell
HP and THP are your maximum buffed values at a given level.


Versatile Human Divine Soul
16 Charisma, 16 Dexterity, 14 Constitution
Feat: Inspiring Leader

1) +Healing Word, +Sanctuary, +Bless (law option)
HP: 8
THP: 4
Cantrips: Take Blade Ward for synergy with Warding Bond. Otherwise, cantrip choice isn't key to the build. Guidance and Frostbite are solid choices.

Inspiring Leader is a huge buffer at this level for your entire party. Apply it every morning and during every short rest. It might keep instant-death crits from taking a young life.

Bless comes from the Law option. Bless is such a good spell that we won't ever discard it. It will occupy our concentration slot most of the time.

With an unarmored AC of 13, Sanctuary is a defensive pick. It's a bonus action to cast. Sanc doesn't take concentration and scales with your save DC. It can be twinned on yourself and someone under fire. Pay attention to the initiative order; you can disrupt many enemy actions with a properly-timed sanc. Or you can just open a fight with fire bolt followed by sanc. You won't need to sanc every fight, depending on enemy types and positioning, but it's an amazing little spell when you do need it. And you won't have to worry about it dropping due to offensive action on your part - you don't take any!

If you aren't a fan of Sanctuary, the alternative is Mage Armor. That boosts your AC to 16, and you will cast with Extended metamagic every morning. It will save spell slots over Sanctuary use, but a 16AC is only average. That means you need Shield in the build too, which is already tight on spell slots.

2) +Cure Wounds
HP: 14
THP: 5

Cure Wounds is a stopover until your build comes fully online next level. Between it and Healing Word, for one level you'll have flexibility in action economy and in ranges. Cure is more potent, benefits more from Empowered Healing (if you keep it) which has a close range, and Cure is touch. That all lines up. But sometimes you need to heal at range and 1HP is enough. Other times you need your action or bonus action for something else. Quickening a Cure Wounds would be grossly inefficient. So we'll keep both on the roster, at least until...

3) -Cure Wounds, +Aid, +Warding Bond
Metamagic: Twinned, Extended
HP: 20
Aid buffer: 5
THP: 6

Twin metamagic is key to the build and will be how most of your sorcery points are spent. Extend doubles your Aid and Death Ward to fill an entire adventuring day for a single sorcery point. That matters if your DM tries to say "Aid is 8 hours? Sorry, it's gone now, you cast it this morning but now it's the evening."

Aid can be used either in combat or before. In combat, it becomes a nice 3-target heal and buff in one, but you need an action to do it. Casting before combat saves you in action economy, but you lose Aid as a 3-target heal. Finally, you could cast Aid after your first combat of the day. That gets you both a healing effect and the buff.

With an 8 (16 Extended) hour duration and no concentration requirement, Aid should usually be cast at your highest spell level available. Target yourself, the tank and a front-line DPS. Aid adds "real" hit points which can be healed when lost. On top of Inspiring Leader, you're adding a sizable buffer to the party.

To put these HP totals into perspective, a 3rd-level fighter with 16CON would have 31HP. So do you, fully buffed with Aid and Inspire. But you aren't tanking on the front lines. At least I hope not. What to do with all those HP?

That's where Warding Bond comes in. One hour duration, no concentration, +1AC and +1 saves to your new best friend. That's your tank, by the way. Oh, and they get resistance to everything, but you take all damage they do take (after their newly-acquired resistance).

The result is damage smoothed out among the party instead of stacked on a single person. Bless (and soon, War Caster) will boost all of the concentration checks you will be making. Sanctuary will help ensure you only take Bond damage. Empowered Healing, Twinned cures can keep you both up and running. Bond is also why we'll take Absorb Elements, but not Shield. If you take bond damage from a Fireball, you can then Absorb your half of that damage.

Warding doesn't always have to go on a tank. It's a bit pointless if your tank is a barbarian (they already resist nearly everything). Rogues are another good option. They can evade blasts and Uncanny Dodge to halve incoming damage (taking 1/4 damage after resists), reducing what you take as well. Placing it on a fellow caster could let them decide when to Shield or when to simply take half damage.

The component for Warding Bond is a set of platinum rings (100gp total). If you want the potential for full party coverage you can give these out ahead of time, one ring per party member, and wear all of the other paired rings yourself.

Note that the Bond breaks past 60 feet of distance between the pair. Your ally needs to pay attention to that. Also, you can use distance to intentionally break a bond, simply walking away; otherwise it takes a full action to break. You might want to unbond if a friend in a clearly fatal situation (lava, etc) could drag you down too.

4) +Absorb Elements
ASI: War Caster
HP: 26
Aid buffer: 5
THP: 7

War Caster is required to keep concentration spells up while taking Warding Bond damage. We don't want it at level 1, THP are too important at low level, so it has to come at 4. Bless, War Caster and the sorc's Con save proficiency really stack concentration checks in your favor. Each check is at 1d20+1d4(bless)+2(Con bonus)+2(save proficiency), with advantage. That's an average roll of 17 per die before advantage, and that will increase with your Con and proficiency bonus.

Math time! For a Ward-caused concentration DC to exceed the base value of DC10, the initial incoming damage to your ally would have to exceed 40. That's 20 damage to them, 20 to you. In my experience, such high damage from a single blow primarily comes from things like magic spells and dragon breath. We can mitigate those with Absorb Elements. Besides keeping you alive, it can make a concentration DC more reasonable. A whopping 80 incoming elemental damage could go to your Ward, causing you to take 40, then be halved to 20 for a simple DC10 concentration check.

5) +Counterspell
HP: 32
Aid buffer: 10
THP: 8
Spell snapshot: Absorb Elements, Bless, Healing Word, Sanctuary, Aid, Warding Bond, Counterspell

Remember that generic fighter? Now they have 45 hit points. Buffed with Aid and Inspire, you have 50. If that fighter joins your party, he rockets up to 63. If Warded, he has resist all for 126EHP (that's Effective HP).

Thus far we've been concentrating on Bless. It's that good. We could Twin haste now, but I would instead keep up with Bless and upcast as necessary to get everyone. Target anyone that just unlocked Extra Attack. It really helps mitigate the hit penalty on GWM or Sharpshooter. Meanwhile, Twin haste is expensive in both spell slots and sorcery points and doesn't really give enough in exchange. Bless also doesn't have the nasty pseudo-stun that happens when Haste expires. You have a fantastic concentration but I still don't like to risk it.

Instead we'll take Counterspell. It can prevent a huge amount of incoming damage, or even counter a counter to let your metamagic heals get through.

If you want a comedy option, take Gaseous Form. Sure it's concentration, but you'll be a puff of wind with damage resistance floating next to your Warded buddy, taking half of the half damage they take. You can't do much, but you can still take the Help action. If you need to cast you can drop concentration at a whim.

6) +Revivify
Empowered Healing gained
HP: 38
Aid buffer: 10
THP: 9

In addition to saving your allies, Revivify can help out if a party member gets too murderous and kills someone they shouldn't have, or if rocks fall on a low-HP NPC. That 'oops' will cost 300GP per cast.

If you have the gold and DM approval, you may want to simply buy a few Revivify scrolls and save this spell slot for something else. Discuss it with your party and they might chip in. Instead, you could take Cure Wounds for use with Empowered Healing, or Mass Healing Word.

7) +Polymorph
HP: 44
Aid buffer: 15
THP: 10

Poly is a powerful, Twinnable heal of sorts, to use when things are looking grim. Just remember no one can spellcast in the new form.

An entire guide could be written on Poly. For you it means a giant pile of free HP for Warding Bond. The only downside is you lose Bless and can't cast further spells, but can still concentrate on the Poly.

8) +Death Ward
ASI: +Charisma
HP: 50
Aid buffer: 15
THP: 12

Another fire-and-forget buff. Think of it as Concentration Insurance. Twin on yourself and a spellcaster buddy. If a sudden burst takes you down it won't be a knockout and you won't lose concentration, saving that spell slot. If you are buffing in the morning and aren't sure when combat may occur, it can be more efficient to cast a pair of Extended Death Wards. That gives you 16 hours (essentially all day) and avoids the risk of an expiring Death Ward that also cost you 4 sorcery points. Extending twice comes out to 2 points and 2 slots, instead of 8 points and 2 slots for twinning twice.

9) +Greater Restoration
HP: 56
Aid buffer: 20
THP: 13
Spell snapshot: Absorb Elements, Bless, Healing Word, Sanctuary, Aid, Warding Bond, Counterspell, Revivify, Death Ward, Polymorph, Greater Restoration

GR gets rid of a laundry list of nasty effects. 100 gold is burned each cast.

Now that you have access to 5th-level spells, there is an optional spell swap available: Revivify for Raise Dead. There are pros and cons for each, and the choice is yours. I prefer to keep Revivify. If you can buy scrolls of either spell, stock up.

10) +Mass Cure Wounds
Metamagic: Quickened
HP: 62
Aid buffer: 20
THP: 14

Quicken metamagic twists the action economy in your favor and adds options for combat tactics. Quicken a spell and disengage with your action. Quicken a spell and also cast Blade Ward to tank bond damage. By now you may have some magic items that work well with Quicken, too.

Mass Cure Wounds is like spending a 3rd level slot on Cure Wounds, except it hits 6 people. That's not something we could do with Twin Cure Wounds or Healing Word. If your whole party got nuked, this is the solution. At least until we get Mass Heal.

11) +Heroes' Feast
HP: 68
Aid buffer: 20 (5th level slot)
Feast buffer: 2d10 to party members without Aid
THP: 15

Heroes' Feast is broken. Advantage on Wisdom saves and immunity to poison and frighten for the entire party for the entire day. Oh, it also gives 2d10 max HP (which don't stack with Aid). You should still cast an up-leveled Aid on your 3 'important' party members, but Feast HP will help the others out. In exchange it costs 1000gp per cast. Make the party help out with expenses. It's not like they have anything better to spend that gold on, right?

12) ASI: +Charisma
HP: 74
Aid buffer: 20 (5th level slot)
Feast buffer: 2d10 to party members without Aid
THP: 17

13) +Feather Fall
HP: 80
Aid buffer: 30 (7th level slot)
Feast buffer: 2d10 to party members without Aid
THP: 18

Generally, at this level I take Feather Fall out of pure paranoia, in anticipation of getting wings. Our 6th-level slot is eternally consumed by Heroes Feast and there's nothing we want to ditch for Feather Fall later on. Just get it now. It's gravity insurance.

If you think you'll stay airborne with no problem (after all, Otherworldly Wings aren't dispellable and only fade away if you fall unconscious, which also means you can't cast Feather Fall), your options open up a bit. Wall of Stone is an interesting, non-hostile control spell. If Heroes' Feast isn't being cast daily, you could also take Heal.

14) Otherworldly Wings gained, a flying speed of 30. Hover above the battle like the angel you are.
HP: 86
Aid buffer: 30 (7th level slot)
Feast buffer: 2d10 to party members without Aid
THP: 19

15) +Holy Aura
HP: 92
Aid buffer: 30 (7th level slot)
Feast buffer: 2d10 to party members without Aid
THP: 20

Advantage on all saves and disadvantage on all incoming attacks for your entire party? Yes, please! Extend this one.

16) ASI: +2 Con
HP: 114
Aid buffer: 30 (7th level slot)
Feast buffer: 2d10 to party members without Aid
THP: 21

17) -Mass Cure Wounds, +Mass Heal, +Wish
Metamagic: Subtle
HP: 122
Aid buffer: 30 (7th level slot)
Feast buffer: 2d10 to party members without Aid
THP: 22

18) Unearthly Recovery gained
HP: 130
Aid buffer: 30 (7th level slot)
Feast buffer: 2d10 to party members without Aid
THP: 23

You gain a bonus heal of 70HP at this level, though it's only usable if you drop below 70HP. Not bad, but it can't exactly compete with Mass Heal.

19) ASI: +2 Con
HP: 153
Aid buffer: 30 (7th level slot)
Feast buffer: 2d10 to party members without Aid
THP: 24

20) Sorcerous Restoration gained.
HP: 161
Aid buffer: 30 (7th level slot)
Feast buffer: 2d10 to party members without Aid
THP: 25

So what do we have? A typical party of 5 has about 250HP of buffer to lose before the group is even taking real damage. That damage is split more evenly to everyone, and they have great saves and tons of healing at the ready. If you drop them to 0 they get back up at 1, or they turn into giant apes with a ton of fresh HP, or they can't even be attacked thanks to Sanc. I wouldn't want to fight those guys.

Final spell snapshot: Absorb Elements, Bless, Healing Word, Sanctuary, Aid, Warding Bond, Counterspell, Revivify, Death Ward, Polymorph, Greater Restoration, Heroes Feast, Feather Fall, Holy Aura, Mass Heal, Wish

[Sparky McDibben]

Hey Ritorix,

I'm confused by something. Your Divine Soul Sorcerer build looks good, but it ends with 17 spells known. The sorcerer only gets 15 (plus bless per divine soul). Where's that last spell come from? It looks like it creeps in at 3rd level - am I just missing something?

[Ritorix]

Hey Ritorix,

I'm confused by something. Your Divine Soul Sorcerer build looks good, but it ends with 17 spells known. The sorcerer only gets 15 (plus bless per divine soul). Where's that last spell come from? It looks like it creeps in at 3rd level - am I just missing something?

They just creep in there! Whoops - you are right of course, I just went back through my D&D Beyond sheet to see what happened. Looks like I swapped out the level 2 spell to get a pair of spells at level 3, but forgot to port that back into the guide. Edited, thanks.

[Man_Over_Game]

Battle Valkyrie Life Cleric
"You want your healin'?! Go earn it!"

Build Goals: Make a durable frontline healer that relies on synergies revolving around Warding Bond, Heavy Armor Master, and the Life Cleric's Blessed Healer feature.


Progression: Life Cleric 17/Sorcerer 3. You'll level as a Life Cleric until level 6, take your 3 levels into Sorcerer, then continue leveling as a Cleric.

You'll start your race as a Human Variant. This will get us the Heavy Armor Master feature. With this, you'll be able to last on the front lines without needing any assistance from your sissy Ranger.

Once you've hit level 3, you'll be able to cast Warding Bond, the bread-and-butter of this build. Casting it on an ally who needs it will not only cause them to live longer, but also cause the weapon damage you receive to be reduced by 3. Assuming a standard hit is 10 damage, your friend will take 5 while you take 2. Instead of 100% of the damage going towards a single character, it's now 70% of the damage divided between two.

After level 6, you'll be able to afford Warding Bond in almost every fight, while also having plenty of options to sustain you and your allies. A single Healing Word on your ally would normally heal about 5 HP to just them, but this combination of features means that the same spell now heals 8 to them and 3 to you. That's 220% effectiveness from a Bonus Action spell, folks. After this, start leveling into Sorcerer.

Once you've gained your 3 levels of Sorcerer, you want to pick up Distant Spell and Twinned Spell. This allows you to Twin your classic Warding Bond, while also being able to use some high-powered healing effects at range (Revivify, Cure Wounds). Because you can now use Cure Wounds at Range, you can maintain Sanctuary on yourself if enemies happen to be using magical weapons that bypass your Heavy Armor Master.

As to which Sorcerer subclass to use, that's entirely up to you.

Storm Sorcerer will allow you to save your Sorcery Points when casting melee spells like Cure Wounds, as well as having the option to get out of melee when your Warding Bond starts to work against you.
Divine Soul does have some assistance with Concentration Saving Throws, if those are more of your thing.
With Wild Magic, you would have the capacity to take a hit from your own spells, or save allies if something backfires.

[LudicSavant]

I'll add links to builds other people have posted in the thread in the OP!

For future reference when posting builds: Please try to make it clear what your ASIs and such are.

[Klorox]

Battle Valkyrie Life Cleric
"You want your healin'?! Go earn it!"

Build Goals: Make a durable frontline healer that relies on synergies revolving around Warding Bond, Heavy Armor Master, and the Life Cleric's Blessed Healer feature.


Progression: Life Cleric 17/Sorcerer 3. You'll level as a Life Cleric until level 6, take your 3 levels into Sorcerer, then continue leveling as a Cleric.

You'll start your race as a Human Variant. This will get us the Heavy Armor Master feature. With this, you'll be able to last on the front lines without needing any assistance from your sissy Ranger.

Once you've hit level 3, you'll be able to cast Warding Bond, the bread-and-butter of this build. Casting it on an ally who needs it will not only cause them to live longer, but also cause the weapon damage you receive to be reduced by 3. Assuming a standard hit is 10 damage, your friend will take 5 while you take 2. Instead of 100% of the damage going towards a single character, it's now 70% of the damage divided between two.

After level 6, you'll be able to afford Warding Bond in almost every fight, while also having plenty of options to sustain you and your allies. A single Healing Word on your ally would normally heal about 5 HP to just them, but this combination of features means that the same spell now heals 8 to them and 3 to you. That's 220% effectiveness from a Bonus Action spell, folks. After this, start leveling into Sorcerer.

Once you've gained your 3 levels of Sorcerer, you want to pick up Distant Spell and Twinned Spell. This allows you to Twin your classic Warding Bond, while also being able to use some high-powered healing effects at range (Revivify, Cure Wounds). Because you can now use Cure Wounds at Range, you can maintain Sanctuary on yourself if enemies happen to be using magical weapons that bypass your Heavy Armor Master.

As to which Sorcerer subclass to use, that's entirely up to you.

Storm Sorcerer will allow you to save your Sorcery Points when casting melee spells like Cure Wounds, as well as having the option to get out of melee when your Warding Bond starts to work against you.
Divine Soul does have some assistance with Concentration Saving Throws, if those are more of your thing.
With Wild Magic, you would have the capacity to take a hit from your own spells, or save allies if something backfires.

I really like the synergy here. I never thought of adding a few sorcerer levels to the life cleric (which I’ve always realized is more than the best healer).

I’d like to see some better weapon options if were gonna call her a Valkyrie, but you’re really not gonna be making too many physical attacks anyway.

[Man_Over_Game]

I really like the synergy here. I never thought of adding a few sorcerer levels to the life cleric (which I’ve always realized is more than the best healer).

I’d like to see some better weapon options if were gonna call her a Valkyrie, but you’re really not gonna be making too many physical attacks anyway.
With the SCAG weapon cantrips, you don't really need a big weapon.

[Klorox]

With the SCAG weapon cantrips, you don't really need a big weapon.

You’re undoubtedly correct, I’m basing it on what I think a Valkyrie looks like.

[LudicSavant]

I'm still gonna post the other 4 builds I mentioned, but it's a bit delayed since... I maaaay have written up the guide-length post, only to accidentally click off the reply page. Whoops. But here's another build to tide you over that I think you'll like. Please let me know what you think! :smallsmile:

The Ancestral Nightmare is a flexible tank that, unlike the vast majority of Barbarians, allows you to lock down opponents in both melee and at range. It can grapple multiple opponents at a time while still wielding a sword and shield, or it can circumvent the usual limitations for thrown weapons to harass people with javelins while providing allies with Resistance, Disadvantage to be hit, damage reduction, and damage retribution… all at the same time.

Build 8: The Ancestral Nightmare (Javelin Master / Grappler Tank)
https://i.postimg.cc/CLK1DB2m/RbbGpEz.jpg

Simic Hybrid Ancestral Guardian Barbarian 16 / Battle Master 3 / Rogue 1
Stats (Point Buy): 16 Str / 14 Con / 14 Dex / 13 Wis / 10 Cha / 8 Int
ASIs: Max Strength, Resilient (+1 Wisdom), Lucky
Sample Maneuvers: Commander’s Strike, Precision Attack, Tripping Attack
Expertise: Athletics, one other skill of your choice
A problem and a solution:
If you want to use throwing weapons, you can only draw one object a turn without cutting into your action economy, which creates a problem for those with Extra Attack. This usually makes Barbarians sad, because they’re hungry for ranged options.

If you want to be a grappler, you can’t normally use a shield or a two-handed weapon because you need to keep a hand free to grab your opponent. This too usually makes Barbarians sad, because they want to shove someone, grapple them, and then beat the bejesus out of them, while simultaneously being as efficient as possible in sponging damage.

Simic Hybrid solves both of these problems by making you into a tentacle monster at level 5.

While these limbs can’t actually throw your javelins, they can hold a bundle of ‘em, which is good enough because switching items between your limbs is a non-action. And they can grapple multiple people at a time while leaving both hands free for sword and board. And not only that, but you get what is essentially Tavern Brawler as a bonus feat, which means we don’t have to spend our precious ASIs looking for something to do with our bonus action.

On top of your extra limbs, Simic Hybrid also gives you Darkvision, ideal stats, and a selection of useful mobility skills (Manta Glide will let you convert falling distance into speed boosts, Climbing speed will help you drag your grappled people up walls and then drop them for damage and prone, swimming will… uh… be relevant in an aquatic campaign).

At range: You throw two weapons including your Dueling (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/03/does-the-dueling-style-apply-to-a-thrown-melee-weapon/) bonus, and your target is harassed by your ancestors. This means that if they want to target anyone else in your party, they have to deal with Resistance and Disadvantage and damage reduction from Spirit Shield and guaranteed damage from Vengeful Ancestors. Heck, at that point you can just put yourself out of range, since you’re the only one they can attack for full value. Unfortunately, you still don't get your Rage bonus to thrown weapon damage (since a "melee weapon attack using Strength" and an "attack with a melee weapon using Strength" count as something different according to Crawford), but that's Barbarian for ya.

Once you have your fighter levels, you also have the option of using Commander’s Strike to hand the local Rogue an off-turn Sneak Attack, further boosting your ranged DPR. And of course Action Surge.

Either way, you’re better off than pretty much every other Barbarian who finds themselves stuck out of melee range for a turn.

In melee: You’re a superior grappler (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468737-The-Grappler-s-Manual-(2-0)-Grappling-in-5th-Edition), able to grab multiple enemies (with Advantage, and later Expertise), shove ‘em to the ground, and still wail on them while wielding a shield. And your ability to perform at range means that you can do things like nail someone on one side of the map with a javelin (making them the target of your Ancestral Protectors) then lock down a second foe near you.

The Rogue dip is primarily to pick up Expertise, which will give you some non-combat utility and make your grapple/shove checks basically guaranteed (scaling as high as +17+Advantage).

The Battle Master levels are because… well, how do I put this. The Barbarian chassis kinda forgets to scale its damage much in the later levels. And while this build’s main job isn’t being a DPR factory, it’s nice to be able to unload from time to time. Battle Master will give you a decent burst damage option and some extra tools via maneuvers.

Your nova damage at tier 4 works out to 86.9 DPR vs AC 19 (4 attacks with Action Surge, Advantage from Reckless Attack, any damaging maneuver if you hit or precision attack if you miss), 100.9 DPR with Vengeful Ancestors (plus 14 DPR of damage reduction to the ally, for a total 114.9 average damage shift in your team’s favor, plus Resistance and Disadvantage of course). You can push this a good deal higher with Commander’s Strike depending on your team composition. Your rage damage without maneuvers or Action Surge is 34.5, or 48.5 with Vengeful Ancestors (plus 14 DPR of damage reduction to the ally, for a total 62.5 average damage shift in your team’s favor).

For perspective, a tier 4 Bear-barian entering rage and using GWM with Advantage has only 37.7 DPR vs AC 19, or 46.3 at exactly level 20 (from the capstone). And they don’t have a shield, do less at range, or while grappling someone, and don’t dramatically reduce damage to their allies. See the difference?

Like all shover/grappler builds, the Ancestral Nightmare synergizes very well with a team that can put down hazards like Spike Growth, Create Bonfire, Wall of Fire, Spirit Guardians, Silence, etc. In fact, you do so even more than usual given your ability to grapple multiple people at a time. Drag ‘em all into the hazards! Get enlarged (via a spellcasting ally or Potion of Growth) to shove/grapple the Huge foes, too!


Variants/Notes:

While the Simic Hybrid is by default a Ravnica race, it fits easily enough into other settings as some variety of mutant or other. For example they make a decent stand-in for the Half-Daelkyr race from previous editions of Eberron.
Commander’s Strike is very much party composition dependent. If you don’t have someone who would be a prime beneficiary in your party (such as a Rogue that wants an off-turn sneak attack), then switch it out for a different maneuver.
You can mix up the order you take the classes to taste; just make sure you don’t delay your Extra Attack. An example would be Barb 6 > Rogue 1 > Fighter 3 > Barb 16, especially if rolled stats allowed you to start with 18 or 19 Strength (after racial adjustments).
If you have the rolls for it, it’s possible to get an exceptional AC as a Barbarian via having 20 Dex and Con.
Alert is an alternative to Lucky. With +7 Initiative and Advantage, you’re all but guaranteed to go first. Lucky is a bit more versatile, and you can still negate surprise using Rage / Feral Instinct.
Simic Hybrids also make good Zealots. Probably merits a separate build post.
If you've got extra space for a feat (such as due to rolling stats, or just looking to change up the build) Mobile is a good choice. The Mobile feat will allow you to Reckless Attack someone then run away, leaving behind only your allies who are even worse targets than you. Mind, you can do this with shoving or maneuvers, too.
You can use this with GWM instead of sword and board, too. You'd have to sacrifice an ASI (which means taking it late or delaying maxing your Strength unless you rolled stats) and a shield, but it'll boost your peak nova damage vs AC 19 from 86.9 DPR to 112.3 DPR (https://anydice.com/program/15c00) (plus possibility of Vengeful Ancestors). However note that you're less likely to activate Vengeful Ancestors if you're a better target, it won't help your ranged attacks, and using your natural attack -> grapple combo will cut into your DPR more, and if you've got a Rogue or the like in the party you can just use Commander's Strike instead (which as the Anydice link shows, lets the SnB build match the GWM build's nova).


Edit: Corrected for a mistake helpfully pointed out by Zene and Zigludo!
Edit2: Some relevant notes on grappling:



Grappling does a great deal more than simply getting a foe to attack you instead of someone else. Here are some of the highlights:

1) Hazard Combos. AKA "How to make your casters very happy."


Many abilities not only do recurrent damage if an enemy sticks round, but also extra damage if you have control over the enemy's movement, since they do damage when an enemy enters (willfully or not) and at the start or end of their turn. So by dragging people around you can make things like Spirit Guardians hit twice a round, or rack up damage on Spike Growth, or the like.

Consider for example a Wizard. Usually you would think that they wouldn't deal a whole lot of resourceless damage. However, they could have their familiar pour out a vial of oil on the ground, and they could light it with Create Bonfire, and you can drag the enemy in out of the space (guaranteeing that they take both the "enters" damage on your turn and "ends turn in the area" damage on theirs). And the Wizard is free on future rounds to cast something like, say, Toll the Dead.

So this level 1 Wizard is contributing 2d8+10 (19) resourceless damage on round 1, and 2d8+1d12+10 (25.5) resourceless damage on round 2+. What's more is that Create Bonfire is an AoE (yes, 5 foot cubes can hit multiple creatures (https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/672590371835088896?lang=en)), and with Grappling Appendages you can grapple multiple people and drag 'em all through. That's about as efficient as Barbarians can get against multiple foes.

And that's just a cantrip used at tier 1. Wait until the casters start breaking out the real guns.

In many party compositions this is a lot more value than just getting 1 more attack in. This is especially true since you can do it to multiple people at a time. And when you count that you will often have them prone-locked as well.

2) Prone-locking. AKA "You can't hit me, everyone can hit you."

An enemy who is shoved+grappled can't stand up unless they blow their entire Action on attempting to break the grapple. Otherwise they're stuck in a prone state, which gives them Disadvantage on their attacks against you (not just all your allies) and gives Advantage to you (without needing to be Reckless) and all of your allies as well (who can all safely stand within 5 feet of the prone target because none of you are good targets).

This provides a considerable offensive and defensive advantage. A Barbarian that has a shield and Disadvantage to be hit will take considerably less damage than they would otherwise, rage or no rage. This bullet point is even more relevant for an Ancestral Guardian, since the enemy has more reason to attack them instead of allies, so you can take that extra durability right to the bank. And granting ongoing Advantage to all your allies often provides more damage than a Barbarian would do on their own with that one attack and bonus action.

Against many enemies, this allows you to clear the encounter with almost no resources spent, including hit points.

3) It can be done without Raging. A Barbarian does not generally have enough rages for a 6-encounter adventuring day, so your non-rage options are important.

4) Why Grappling? (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468737-The-Grappler-s-Manual-(2-0)-Grappling-in-5th-Edition#whygrappling)

5) Target Control: This goes beyond merely a question of whether or not the enemy is attacking the tank, but extends to things like manipulating line of sight (often important with spellcasters), optimal cover and formations (like putting the guy with the breath weapon in a place his cone can't do squat), and so forth.

6) Ancestral Protectors Only Target One Enemy: Grappling allows you to lock down additional ones.


The upshot of all of this is that in many situations, grappling can contribute more to a party's performance than, say, a single extra Barbarian attack. And when you're not in those situations, I made sure that the build had other good tools for those very cases. (You've probably noticed by now, I like mah versatility :smallsmile:).

[Mith]

I'm still gonna post the other 4 builds I mentioned, but it's a bit delayed since... I maaaay have written up the guide-length post, only to accidentally click off the reply page. Whoops. But here's another build to tide you over that I think you'll like. Please let me know what you think! :smallsmile:

The Ancestral Nightmare is a flexible tank that, unlike the vast majority of Barbarians, allows you to lock down opponents in both melee and at range. It can grapple multiple opponents at a time while still wielding a sword and shield, or it can circumvent the usual limitations for thrown weapons to harass people with javelins while providing allies with Resistance, Disadvantage to be hit, damage reduction, and damage retribution… all at the same time.

Build 8: The Ancestral Nightmare (Javelin Master / Grappler Tank)
https://i.postimg.cc/CLK1DB2m/RbbGpEz.jpg

Simic Hybrid Ancestral Guardian Barbarian 16 / Battle Master 3 / Rogue 1
Stats (Point Buy): 16 Str / 14 Con / 14 Dex / 13 Wis / 10 Cha / 8 Int
ASIs: Max Strength, Resilient (+1 Wisdom), Lucky
Sample Maneuvers: Commander’s Strike, Precision Attack, Tripping Attack
Expertise: Athletics, one other skill of your choice
A problem and a solution:
If you want to use throwing weapons, you can only draw one object a turn without cutting into your action economy, which creates a problem for those with Extra Attack. This usually makes Barbarians sad, because they’re hungry for ranged options.

If you want to be a grappler, you can’t normally use a shield or a two-handed weapon because you need to keep a hand free to grab your opponent. This too usually makes Barbarians sad, because they want to shove someone, grapple then, and then beat the bejesus out of them, while simultaneously being as efficient as possible in sponging damage.

Simic Hybrid solves both of these problems by making you into a tentacle monster at level 5.

While these limbs can’t actually throw your javelins, they can hold a bundle of ‘em, which is good enough because switching items between your limbs is a non-action. And they can grapple multiple people at a time while leaving both hands free for sword and board. And not only that, but you get what is essentially Tavern Brawler as a bonus feat, which means we don’t have to spend our precious ASIs looking for something to do with our bonus action.

On top of your extra limbs, Simic Hybrid also gives you Darkvision, ideal stats, and a selection of useful mobility skills (Manta Glide will let you convert falling distance into speed boosts, Climbing speed will help you drag your grappled people up walls and then drop them for damage and prone, swimming will… uh… be relevant in an aquatic campaign).

At range: You throw two weapons complete with Rage and Dueling (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/03/does-the-dueling-style-apply-to-a-thrown-melee-weapon/) bonuses, and your target is harassed by your ancestors. This means that if they want to target anyone else in your party, they have to deal with Resistance and Disadvantage and damage reduction from Spirit Shield and guaranteed damage from Vengeful Ancestors. Heck, at that point you can just put yourself out of range, since you’re the only one they can attack for full value.

Once you have your fighter levels, you also have the option of using Commander’s Strike to hand the local Rogue an off-turn Sneak Attack, further boosting your ranged DPR. And of course Action Surge.

Either way, you’re much better off than pretty much every other Barbarian who finds themselves stuck out of melee range for a turn.

In melee: You’re a superior grappler (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468737-The-Grappler-s-Manual-(2-0)-Grappling-in-5th-Edition), able to grab multiple enemies (with Advantage, and later Expertise), shove ‘em to the ground, and still wail on them while wielding a shield. And your ability to perform at range means that you can do things like nail someone on one side of the map with a javelin (making them the target of your Ancestral Protectors) then lock down a second foe near you.

The Battle Master levels are because… well, how do I put this. The Barbarian chassis kinda forgets to scale its damage much in the later levels. And while this build’s main job isn’t being a DPR factory, it’s nice to be able to unload from time to time. Battle Master will give you a decent burst damage option and some extra tools via maneuvers. Don’t forget that thrown javelins count as “melee weapons” for Dueling, so you can do your burst from range if you like.

Your nova damage at tier 4 works out to 86.9 DPR vs AC 19 (4 attacks with Action Surge, Advantage from Reckless Attack, any damaging maneuver if you hit or precision attack if you miss), 100.9 DPR with Vengeful Ancestors (plus 14 DPR of damage reduction to the ally, for a total 114.9 average damage shift in your team’s favor, plus Resistance and Disadvantage of course). You can push this higher with Commander’s Strike depending on your team composition, and also by using your Lucky rerolls (though I generally would save those for saves or the like). Your rage damage without maneuvers or Action Surge is 34.5, or 48.5 with Vengeful Ancestors (plus 14 DPR of damage reduction to the ally, for a total 62.5 average damage shift in your team’s favor).

For perspective, a tier 4 Bear-barian entering rage and using GWM with Advantage has only 37.7 DPR, or 46.3 at exactly level 20 (from the capstone). And they don’t have a shield, and can’t do their thing at range, or while grappling someone, and don’t dramatically reduce damage to their allies. See the difference?

Like all shover/grappler builds, the Ancestral Nightmare synergizes very well with a team that can put down hazards like Spike Growth, Create Bonfire, Wall of Fire, Spirit Guardians, Silence, etc. In fact, you do so even more than usual given your ability to grapple multiple people at a time. Drag ‘em all into the hazards! Get enlarged (via a spellcasting ally or Potion of Growth) to shove/grapple the Huge foes, too!


Variants/Notes:

While the Simic Hybrid is by default a Ravnica race, it fits easily enough into other settings as some variety of mutant or other. For example they make a decent stand-in for the Half-Daelkyr race from previous editions of Eberron.
Commander’s Strike is very much party composition dependent. If you don’t have someone who would be a prime beneficiary in your party (such as a Rogue that wants an off-turn sneak attack), then switch it out for a different maneuver.
You can mix up the order you take the classes to taste; just make sure you don’t delay your Extra Attack. An example would be Barb 6 > Rogue 1 > Fighter 3 > Barb 16
If you have the rolls for it, it’s possible to get an exceptional AC as a Barbarian via having 20 Dex and Con.
Alert is an alternative to Lucky. With +7 Initiative and Advantage, you’re all but guaranteed to go first. Lucky is a bit more versatile, and you can still negate surprise using Rage / Feral Instinct.
Simic Hybrids also make good Zealots. Probably merits a separate build post.
You can use this with GWM instead of sword and board, too. You'd have to sacrifice Lucky and a shield, but it'll boost your peak nova damage vs AC 19 from 86.9 DPR to 112.3 DPR (https://anydice.com/program/150ce) (plus possibility of Vengeful Ancestors). However note that you're less likely to activate Vengeful Ancestors if you're a better target, and that this won't help your ranged attacks, and you'll be more vulnerable to saving throws and crits, and using your natural attack -> grapple combo will cut into your DPR more, and if you've got a Rogue or the like in the party you can just use Commander's Strike instead.


Like this build. Perhaps I should get my hands on a copy of Ravnica and try it out for myself. As someone who likes to play barbarian, I would like to have options to ranged attacks other than "close the range to 5' and hit them.".

[Zene]

I'm still gonna post the other 4 builds I mentioned, but it's a bit delayed since... I maaaay have written up the guide-length post, only to accidentally click off the reply page. Whoops. But here's another build to tide you over that I think you'll like. Please let me know what you think! :smallsmile:

The Ancestral Nightmare is a flexible tank that, unlike the vast majority of Barbarians, allows you to lock down opponents in both melee and at range. It can grapple multiple opponents at a time while still wielding a sword and shield, or it can circumvent the usual limitations for thrown weapons to harass people with javelins while providing allies with Resistance, Disadvantage to be hit, damage reduction, and damage retribution… all at the same time.

Build 8: The Ancestral Nightmare (Javelin Master / Grappler Tank)
https://i.postimg.cc/CLK1DB2m/RbbGpEz.jpg

Simic Hybrid Ancestral Guardian Barbarian 16 / Battle Master 3 / Rogue 1
Stats (Point Buy): 16 Str / 14 Con / 14 Dex / 13 Wis / 10 Cha / 8 Int
ASIs: Max Strength, Resilient (+1 Wisdom), Lucky
Sample Maneuvers: Commander’s Strike, Precision Attack, Tripping Attack
Expertise: Athletics, one other skill of your choice
A problem and a solution:
If you want to use throwing weapons, you can only draw one object a turn without cutting into your action economy, which creates a problem for those with Extra Attack. This usually makes Barbarians sad, because they’re hungry for ranged options.

If you want to be a grappler, you can’t normally use a shield or a two-handed weapon because you need to keep a hand free to grab your opponent. This too usually makes Barbarians sad, because they want to shove someone, grapple then, and then beat the bejesus out of them, while simultaneously being as efficient as possible in sponging damage.

Simic Hybrid solves both of these problems by making you into a tentacle monster at level 5.

While these limbs can’t actually throw your javelins, they can hold a bundle of ‘em, which is good enough because switching items between your limbs is a non-action. And they can grapple multiple people at a time while leaving both hands free for sword and board. And not only that, but you get what is essentially Tavern Brawler as a bonus feat, which means we don’t have to spend our precious ASIs looking for something to do with our bonus action.

On top of your extra limbs, Simic Hybrid also gives you Darkvision, ideal stats, and a selection of useful mobility skills (Manta Glide will let you convert falling distance into speed boosts, Climbing speed will help you drag your grappled people up walls and then drop them for damage and prone, swimming will… uh… be relevant in an aquatic campaign).

At range: You throw two weapons complete with Rage and Dueling (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/03/does-the-dueling-style-apply-to-a-thrown-melee-weapon/) bonuses, and your target is harassed by your ancestors. This means that if they want to target anyone else in your party, they have to deal with Resistance and Disadvantage and damage reduction from Spirit Shield and guaranteed damage from Vengeful Ancestors. Heck, at that point you can just put yourself out of range, since you’re the only one they can attack for full value.

Once you have your fighter levels, you also have the option of using Commander’s Strike to hand the local Rogue an off-turn Sneak Attack, further boosting your ranged DPR. And of course Action Surge.

Either way, you’re much better off than pretty much every other Barbarian who finds themselves stuck out of melee range for a turn.

In melee: You’re a superior grappler (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468737-The-Grappler-s-Manual-(2-0)-Grappling-in-5th-Edition), able to grab multiple enemies (with Advantage, and later Expertise), shove ‘em to the ground, and still wail on them while wielding a shield. And your ability to perform at range means that you can do things like nail someone on one side of the map with a javelin (making them the target of your Ancestral Protectors) then lock down a second foe near you.

The Rogue dip is primarily to pick up Expertise, which will give you some non-combat utility and make your grapple/shove checks basically guaranteed (scaling as high as +17+Advantage).

The Battle Master levels are because… well, how do I put this. The Barbarian chassis kinda forgets to scale its damage much in the later levels. And while this build’s main job isn’t being a DPR factory, it’s nice to be able to unload from time to time. Battle Master will give you a decent burst damage option and some extra tools via maneuvers. Don’t forget that thrown javelins count as “melee weapons” for Dueling, so you can do your burst from range if you like.

Your nova damage at tier 4 works out to 86.9 DPR vs AC 19 (4 attacks with Action Surge, Advantage from Reckless Attack, any damaging maneuver if you hit or precision attack if you miss), 100.9 DPR with Vengeful Ancestors (plus 14 DPR of damage reduction to the ally, for a total 114.9 average damage shift in your team’s favor, plus Resistance and Disadvantage of course). You can push this higher with Commander’s Strike depending on your team composition, and also by using your Lucky rerolls (though I generally would save those for saves or the like). Your rage damage without maneuvers or Action Surge is 34.5, or 48.5 with Vengeful Ancestors (plus 14 DPR of damage reduction to the ally, for a total 62.5 average damage shift in your team’s favor).

For perspective, a tier 4 Bear-barian entering rage and using GWM with Advantage has only 37.7 DPR, or 46.3 at exactly level 20 (from the capstone). And they don’t have a shield, and can’t do their thing at range, or while grappling someone, and don’t dramatically reduce damage to their allies. See the difference?

Like all shover/grappler builds, the Ancestral Nightmare synergizes very well with a team that can put down hazards like Spike Growth, Create Bonfire, Wall of Fire, Spirit Guardians, Silence, etc. In fact, you do so even more than usual given your ability to grapple multiple people at a time. Drag ‘em all into the hazards! Get enlarged (via a spellcasting ally or Potion of Growth) to shove/grapple the Huge foes, too!


Variants/Notes:

While the Simic Hybrid is by default a Ravnica race, it fits easily enough into other settings as some variety of mutant or other. For example they make a decent stand-in for the Half-Daelkyr race from previous editions of Eberron.
Commander’s Strike is very much party composition dependent. If you don’t have someone who would be a prime beneficiary in your party (such as a Rogue that wants an off-turn sneak attack), then switch it out for a different maneuver.
You can mix up the order you take the classes to taste; just make sure you don’t delay your Extra Attack. An example would be Barb 6 > Rogue 1 > Fighter 3 > Barb 16
If you have the rolls for it, it’s possible to get an exceptional AC as a Barbarian via having 20 Dex and Con.
Alert is an alternative to Lucky. With +7 Initiative and Advantage, you’re all but guaranteed to go first. Lucky is a bit more versatile, and you can still negate surprise using Rage / Feral Instinct.
Simic Hybrids also make good Zealots. Probably merits a separate build post.
You can use this with GWM instead of sword and board, too. You'd have to sacrifice Lucky and a shield, but it'll boost your peak nova damage vs AC 19 from 86.9 DPR to 112.3 DPR (https://anydice.com/program/150d2) (plus possibility of Vengeful Ancestors). However note that you're less likely to activate Vengeful Ancestors if you're a better target, and that this won't help your ranged attacks, and you'll be more vulnerable to saving throws and crits, and using your natural attack -> grapple combo will cut into your DPR more, and if you've got a Rogue or the like in the party you can just use Commander's Strike instead.


Awesome build. One minor note is that you don’t get the rage damage bonus on thrown weapon attacks. But still, a very effective build.

[Zigludo]

Would you guys mind snipping that massive post out of the quotes in your posts?

EDIT: On-topic. For the Javelin build.

You've written: "At range: You throw two weapons complete with Rage and Dueling bonuses, and your target is harassed by your ancestors." Now, this attack definitely applies the bonus from Dueling and from Ancestral Guardians, but I'm not sure it adds Rage damage.

The rule for Rage says:
"When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table."

Now, when you throw a javelin, despite the fact that you're using a melee weapon and using strength, I believe you're actually making a ranged weapon attack. Not a melee weapon attack.
Full disclosure, at my table I allow it (because it just makes sense to me) but I don't think it's RAW.

[LudicSavant]

Awesome build. One minor note is that you don’t get the rage damage bonus on thrown weapon attacks. But still, a very effective build.


*Snip*

Ah. You are of course correct. Javelins are "attacks with a melee weapon" and "melee-weapon attacks" but not "melee weapon attacks" according to the SAC (http://dnd.wizards.com/sites/default/files/media/upload/articles/SA_Compendium.pdf). Mentioning that it gets the Rage bonus is a mistake. I shall fix that immediately. Thanks! :smallsmile:

Edit: Revised the build post accordingly.

[OzDragon]

This is fantastic with wonderful builds. LudicSavant would you possibly do a 1-10 rundown on the Arcana cleric VHuman with point buy? Idealy with spells perlevel and such. Im looking for the whole shebang.

Also yes I plan on stealing it and using it in my next game!

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I've posted him a few times already, but this souns like a good place to re-post:

The Eldritch Blast Knight

VHuman fighter (eldritch Knight) 7 Warlock (Infernal/Tome) 13

An unconventional gish build. Switch seemlessly from long range to melee range, push your enemies around into hazards or away from your squishies. With quick access to 3rd level slots, you get access to a good range of spells for decent area attacks (fireball) or control (Hunger of hadar) or movement (misty step/fly), even maybe counterspelling depending on your need. Action surge at level 7 gives you some nova potential, and hex with a great concentration check makes for some very decent sustained damage potential. Heavy armor and shield, coupled with thp on kil;s and decent hit dice, means you are not going down easy and can tank with the best of them. Access to all ritual spells and a familiar make you usefull outside of combat, and a high charisma score means you can be a decent party face.

Stats
15 Str /10 Dex /14 Con /8 Int / 10 Wis / Cha 16


Overview:
Lvl 1: Vhuman Fighter 1 (feat: crossbow expert) (defense fighting style)
Lvl 2-6: Warlock (Fiend) (Tome) Pick up Eldritch blast with repelling and Agonizing blast, grab Booming blade and Shillelagh cantrip. Grab Warcaster for your ASI.
Lvl 7-12: Fighter (Eldritch knight). Max Charisma with the ASIs.
13-15: more warlock.

At level 5: You are Fighter 1 Warlock 4.
You are wearing heavy armor and shield with defense style, 21 AC with plate and 40 HP. On a kill you get 7 thp, and bonus action heal for 1d10+1 means you are fairly self sufficient for HP and can take tanking duty.
You cast Eldritch blast in melee and at range as you want, for a very stable 2d10 +6 damage per turn. The cool feature here is you can use this to push enemies 20 ft away where you want. Being in melee makes controlling the angle of the pushing quite easy, and adds a tactical layer regular fighters don't have.
You have proficiency in concentration (so +5) and advantage on those check, so you can maintain hex no problem. Next level you get third level slots, so that Hex can last 8 hour.
You have two 2nd level spell slot which recharge on a short rest.
For attack of opportunity, Booming blade delivered through you shillelagh is the key (2d8+3 and another 2d8 from the secondary). Pre-cast shillelagh anytime you think a fight might break out in the next minute, as you've got competition for that bonus action with Hex.
You might also burn a slot on Hellish rebuke if you fancy it.
Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh.

At level 11:
You are Warlock 5 Fighter 6.
Your Charisma is now maxed.
Your AC is still at least 21, and you got Shield 3 first level slot per day to raise it to 26 when needed (or to cast Absorb elements). HP is at a respectable 87, with THP on kills of 10. You can heal 1d10 + 6 as a bonus action. You can take tanking duty no problem.

Eldritch blast is now at 3d10 + 15, which is pretty great at-will damage with a push rider of 10 feet per attack. With Hex, 3d10 + 15 + 3d6. But you also have Action surge and up to 8 hour of Hex with a single cast. So you got a once a short rest nova of 6d10+30+6d6 with 60 feet of potential pushing. That is pretty brutal and useable both in melee and at range.

Your fifth warlock level came with an extra invocation, so you need to choose: Devil sight opens the Darkness shenanigan, Book of ancient secrets gives you access to nearly all rituals in the game (including a familiar), or at-will silent image or disguise self... you decide, but you've got quite a few choice, depending on your party to open up your usefulness.
Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step, Fireball, Shield, Absorb element, Magic missile, protection from evil and good.
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mage Hand, Message.

Level 12 you get two level 2 spell slots and War magic. Why? To use your staff to attack the enemy once more after casting eldritch blast, and trigger Hex one more time! So now, your at-will damage is 3d10+15 +1d8 +5 (with shillelagh active). You do have a bit of competition for bonus action, so it,s not gonna come toghether perfectly all the time.

At level 18
You are Warlock 11 Fighter 7.
On top of all the above, if you now have your fourth blast, so the fighter is jealous he's got less attack than you.

You have 3 level 5 spell slot that recharge on a short rest, 4 level 1 slot and 2 level 2 slots on long rest, and a 6th level spel with your Mystic arcanum. The ranger, paladin and eldritch knight are super jealous at your spellpower, and your at-will damage (4d10+20 + 1d8+5) is more than a match to theirs, and your short rest nova (8d10+40 + 8d6) is nothing to sneeze at. Hex is now 24 hours long.

5 invocations gives you some versatility.

Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step, Fireball, Counterspell, Fly, Shadow of Moil, Firewall, Hold monster, Synaptic Static, Soul cage (Arcanum)
From Eldritch knight: Shield, Absorb element, Magic missile, Protection from evil and good, Darkness
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mage Hand, Message, Chill touch

On your next two level, you get a 7th level spell

I wanted to say thank you for taking the time to post that.

[LudicSavant]

Added Ancestral Barb DPR calcs to this post. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23861574&postcount=81)

[Skylivedk]

Thank you, Ludic. This post and the thread about Out of Combat abilities for martials are my two favourite in a very long time.

For my next character(s), I've been theory craft brewing a bit on one of the following off-kilter tanks and would like your take on what you find most playable.
With prep (ie post Baleful Curse) calculations can be found here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/153jaKEkt2lv5tY2UYxUAeYvAuqMvmDAIrqdaPh78AaI/edit?usp=sharing

1. The Stab of All Trades
Character concept is to leverage most of the different Cha-based classes for a character that can do pretty well across the board: skills, tanking and nova. Resources are on purpose spread to be always on, SR and LR.
Hexblade 5 (AB+Grasp of Hadar/Devil's Sight+Eldritch Smite)
Vengeance Paladin 6
(Lore) Bard 6
DS/Shadow/Dragon Sorc 3 for Quicken+Twin. There might be enough Bonus Actions for this to be redundant in which case more Bard levels or some Barb for the DMG resistance might be super kosher.
EDIT:
I tested burst with a Battlemaster. With Action Surge and Baleful Curse down and double smite, you're looking at 205 DPR without advantage and 277 with advantage at level 20 vs AC 19. Probably a bit higher since this is with only Precision Attack and no sup dice for damage.
Quickened Booming Blade is clearly worse with a DPR of 138 and 204. Hence Battlemaster is clearly better for burst.

Another variation is to go for:
Hexblade 5
Conquest Paladin 7
Whisper Bard 5
Battlemaster 3
You end up with pretty insane nuke (triple smite + Action Surge), good control from all the fear and lockdown that follows a decent amount of skills and spell slots.



2. The Tank of All Trades
Hexblade 1
Arcane Trickster 9
Whisper/Lore Bard 10
The idea here was for a tanking rogue (with Armour of Agathys + Uncanny Dodge) that has an extreme amounts of skills and expertise along with good saving throws (Wisdom Prof from Warlock, Res:Con + Evasion get you all major bases covered) plus some crazy control due to AT 9 + Bard spell list. Whisper deals out a bit more punishment whereas Lore further emphasises the skill monkeyness to absurd levels and adds cutting words (combos well with AT9 and is occasionally better for tanking than Uncanny Dodge).
DPR is less impressive, but you still have good rounds with 110 and 168 (Baleful Curse, Bardic Inspiration, Psychic Blades and Elven Accuracy all included)

3. The Never-Ending Ward
Either the neo-classic Hexblade 2/3 (for infinite Mage Armour charges of the Arcane Ward) + Abjurer X

OR, my variation:

Svifnerblin Gnome
Conquest Paladin 3
Abjuration Wiz X
The idea here being combining Smites with AoA with the sexiness of being a Wizard and the combined anti-magic might of abjuration wizards and gnomes. Extremely hard to get rid off, extremely hard to ignore. A bit too MAD for my taste, but could be fun.
14/10/14/16/8/13
15/10/13/16/8/13
15/10/14/15/8/13
as starting stats. Second array for those who'd like Res:Con, 3rd for those who start above level 8.
You want the Gnome Racial, Warcaster and/or RES:CON and Int. There's other possible cut off points at Conquest 4 and 6... even a case for 7 and 9.

... yeah, I know. AoA has stolen my heart. The damage potential of that spell is just crazy if you can mitigate the damage taken by the Temp HP.

EDIT:
The build works perfectly fine with Pala 2, Hexblade 1, Abjurer X.

I'd love to see your take on the Nuclear Wizard and your favourite version of the Iron Scoundrel build.

[XmonkTad]

The Iron Wizard build is the best thing I've seen all year. I've been looking for a wizard that's tankier than a barbarian with ritual caster and this seems like it!

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm not really sure why the Ancestral Nightmare should be focused on grapples. Ancestral Guardian already has a pseudo-taunt effect, and the enemy will likely want to be sticking to the Barbarian like glue without any help from the Barbarian.

That is, grappling only really helps if the enemy doesn't already want to be next to you, and there's nothing that does that already like an Ancestral Guardian. To me, it just seems really redundant. Like adding Ritual Caster to a Wizard.

[Klorox]

The Iron Wizard build is the best thing I've seen all year. I've been looking for a wizard that's tankier than a barbarian with ritual caster and this seems like it!

I really love that one too. So much.

The only issue I see with it is there are so many feats you just really want to take you might neglect pumping INT too long.

[LudicSavant]

grappling only really helps if the enemy doesn't already want to be next to you

I couldn't disagree more.

Grappling does a great deal more than simply getting a foe to attack you instead of someone else. Here are some of the highlights:

1) Hazard Combos. AKA "How to make your casters very happy."


Many abilities not only do recurrent damage if an enemy sticks round, but also extra damage if you have control over the enemy's movement, since they do damage when an enemy enters (willfully or not) and at the start or end of their turn. So by dragging people around you can make things like Spirit Guardians hit twice a round, or rack up damage on Spike Growth, or the like.

Consider for example a Wizard. Usually you would think that they wouldn't deal a whole lot of resourceless damage. However, they could have their familiar pour out a vial of oil on the ground, and they could light it with Create Bonfire, and you can drag the enemy in out of the space (guaranteeing that they take both the "enters" damage on your turn and "ends turn in the area" damage on theirs). And the Wizard is free on future rounds to cast something like, say, Toll the Dead.

So this level 1 Wizard is contributing 2d8+10 (19) resourceless damage on round 1, and 2d8+1d12+10 (25.5) resourceless damage on round 2+. What's more is that Create Bonfire is an AoE (yes, 5 foot cubes can hit multiple creatures (https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/672590371835088896?lang=en)), and with Grappling Appendages you can grapple multiple people and drag 'em all through. That's about as efficient as Barbarians can get against multiple foes.

And that's just a cantrip used at tier 1. Wait until the casters start breaking out the real guns.

In many party compositions this is a lot more value than just getting 1 more attack in. This is especially true since you can do it to multiple people at a time. And when you count that you will often have them prone-locked as well.

2) Prone-locking. AKA "You can't hit me, everyone can hit you."

An enemy who is shoved+grappled can't stand up unless they blow their entire Action on attempting to break the grapple. Otherwise they're stuck in a prone state, which gives them Disadvantage on their attacks against you (not just all your allies) and gives Advantage to you (without needing to be Reckless) and all of your allies as well (who can all safely stand within 5 feet of the prone target because none of you are good targets).

This provides a considerable offensive and defensive advantage. A Barbarian that has a shield and Disadvantage to be hit will take considerably less damage than they would otherwise, rage or no rage. This bullet point is even more relevant for an Ancestral Guardian, since the enemy has more reason to attack them instead of allies, so you can take that extra durability right to the bank. And granting ongoing Advantage to all your allies often provides more damage than a Barbarian would do on their own with that one attack and bonus action.

Against many enemies, this allows you to clear the encounter with almost no resources spent, including hit points.

3) It can be done without Raging. A Barbarian does not generally have enough rages for a 6-encounter adventuring day, so your non-rage options are important.

4) Why Grappling? (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468737-The-Grappler-s-Manual-(2-0)-Grappling-in-5th-Edition#whygrappling)

5) Target Control: This goes beyond merely a question of whether or not the enemy is attacking the tank, but extends to things like manipulating line of sight (often important with spellcasters), optimal cover and formations (like putting the guy with the breath weapon in a place his cone can't do squat), and so forth.

6) Ancestral Protectors Only Target One Enemy: Grappling allows you to lock down additional ones.


The upshot of all of this is that in many situations, grappling can contribute more to a party's performance than, say, a single extra Barbarian attack. And when you're not in those situations, I made sure that the build had other good tools for those very cases. (You've probably noticed by now, I like mah versatility :smallsmile:).

[MaxWilson]

An enemy who is shoved+grappled can't stand up unless they blow their entire Action on attempting to break the grapple. Otherwise they're stuck in a prone state, which gives them Disadvantage on their attacks against you (not just all your allies) and gives Advantage to you (without needing to be Reckless) and all of your all of your allies as well (who can all safely stand within 5 feet of the prone target because none of you are good targets).

I agree that grappling is valuable, but I disagree with this bit here. They don't have to blow their entire action on attempting to break the grapple. An opponent with Extra Attack can instead spend their action on trying to Shove you out of grappling range, at which point the grapple ends, and they can then use their other attacks to do damage.

In practice I find that at mid-to-high levels the more serious limitation on grapple/prone is the fact that many enemies either cannot be grappled (due to size or no solid form) or else can teleport out of a grapple (sometimes as part of a Multiattack combo or as a legendary/bonus action).



The upshot of all of this is that in many situations, grappling can contribute more to a party's performance than, say, a single extra Barbarian attack. And when you're not in those situations, I made sure that the build had other good tools for those very cases. (You've probably noticed by now, I like mah versatility :smallsmile:).

I 100% agree with this part though.

Also I want to note that an Ancestor Barb's Ancestral Protector's feature only affects the first creature you hit with an attack on your turn, while raging, so it's easy to imagine scnenarios where you'd want to grapple/prone one enemy while hitting another, in order to take two different enemies sort of out of the fight. In principle you could even spend your first turn grappling two different enemies*, one with each arm, and then on subsequent turns head-butt a third enemy to activate Ancestral Protector against them.

* You need someone else to knock them prone, e.g. the druid's conjured animals or a Grease or Sleet Storm spell.

[LudicSavant]

Also I want to note that an Ancestor Barb's Ancestral Protector's feature only affects the first creature you hit with an attack on your turn, while raging, so it's easy to imagine scnenarios where you'd want to grapple/prone one enemy while hitting another, in order to take two different enemies sort of out of the fight. In principle you could even spend your first turn grappling two different enemies*, one with each arm, and then on subsequent turns head-butt a third enemy to activate Ancestral Protector against them.

* You need someone else to knock them prone, e.g. the druid's conjured animals or a Grease or Sleet Storm spell.

Indeed! It's important to be able to deal with more than one enemy at a time. I already mentioned that they could do this in the original AN post, but I'll add that bullet point to the grappling post.


They don't have to blow their entire action on attempting to break the grapple. An opponent with Extra Attack can instead spend their action on trying to Shove you out of grappling range, at which point the grapple ends, and they can then use their other attacks to do damage.

That's true. Certain monsters do not have to use their entire Action to get up.

Shoving the Ancestral Nightmare is tough though. They scale all the way up to +17+Advantage grappling, and the vast majority of monsters don't have Athletics, so I don't find this to be an issue all that often.

[MaxWilson]

That's true. Certain monsters do not have to use their entire Action to get up.

Shoving the Ancestral Nightmare is tough though. They scale all the way up to +17+Advantage grappling, and the vast majority of monsters don't have Athletics, so I don't find this to be an issue all that often.

Yeah, as I mentioned, in practice it's teleportation and not Shoving that gives grapplers issues. (Plus monsters who are too big or too insubstantial to be grappled.) Githyanki are so annoying. :-P

[LudicSavant]

Thank you, Ludic. This post and the thread about Out of Combat abilities for martials are my two favourite in a very long time.

For my next character(s), I've been theory craft brewing a bit on one of the following off-kilter tanks and would like your take on what you find most playable.

*snip builds*

... yeah, I know. AoA has stolen my heart. The damage potential of that spell is just crazy if you can mitigate the damage taken by the Temp HP.

I'd love to see your take on the Nuclear Wizard and your favourite version of the Iron Scoundrel build.

You sir are addicted to Armor of Agathys! :smallsmile: It occurs to me that the Ancestral Barbarian posted above actually makes a pretty good teammate to an AoA build, since they grant Resistance and damage reduction to their allies (and unlike a typical AB isn't too uncomfortable backing up and letting someone else rotate in). AoA builds are always looking for resistance and damage reduction.

Other good allies for an AoA build are Abjurers and Lore Bards. As nice as AoA setups are on their own, it's even better with party synergy :smallsmile:

So lemme take a look at these builds...


For my next character(s), I've been theory craft brewing a bit on one of the following off-kilter tanks and would like your take on what you find most playable.


3. The Never-Ending Ward
Either the neo-classic Hexblade 2/3 (for infinite Mage Armour charges of the Arcane Ward) + Abjurer X

OR, my variation:

Svifnerblin Gnome
Conquest Paladin 3
Abjuration Wiz X
The idea here being combining Smites with AoA with the sexiness of being a Wizard and the combined anti-magic might of abjuration wizards and gnomes. Extremely hard to get rid off, extremely hard to ignore. A bit too MAD for my taste, but could be fun.
14/10/14/16/8/13
15/10/13/16/8/13
15/10/14/15/8/13
as starting stats. Second array for those who'd like Res:Con, 3rd for those who start above level 8.
You want the Gnome Racial, Warcaster and/or RES:CON and Int. There's other possible cut off points at Conquest 4 and 6... even a case for 7 and 9.

So for the Pal 3/Abjurer X, you don't actually have enough ASIs for the gnome racial, Warcaster, Res:Con, and Max Int. The build only gets 4 ASIs and the first one is delayed until level 7. I'm also unsure that the smites are worth the delay in casting progression. And as you said the build's quite MAD; besides your Channel Divinity you might struggle to hit with those smites.

The Hexblade/Abjurer setup seems more promising to my first impression. It might be worthwhile to delay the second level of Hexblade until you get some good Wizard tools under your belt first though. Maybe after Wizard 5.


2. The Tank of All Trades
Hexblade 1
Arcane Trickster 9
Whisper/Lore Bard 10
The idea here was for a tanking rogue (with Armour of Agathys + Uncanny Dodge) that has an extreme amounts of skills and expertise along with good saving throws (Wisdom Prof from Warlock, Res:Con + Evasion get you all major bases covered) plus some crazy control due to AT 9 + Bard spell list. Whisper deals out a bit more punishment whereas Lore further emphasises the skill monkeyness to absurd levels and adds cutting words (combos well with AT9 and is occasionally better for tanking than Uncanny Dodge).

What's the intended combo for Cutting Words + AT 9 (Magical Ambush) here?

Cutting Words activates "When a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a damage roll" and does not help against saving throws.

Anyways, seems like it could work out. You max your Charisma by 9 and can pick up War Caster from Variant Human. You then put enemies in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation by standing next to them with AoA; they either attack you and have to go through Medium Armor / Shield / Uncanny Dodge / AoA, or walk away and eat a Booming Blade Sneak Attack. Nobody likes being hit by Booming Blade Sneak Attacks. And at higher levels, you'll be able to combine Magical Ambush with an accelerated spell progression from Bard, though that takes a while to come online.

Personally I think I'd be more inclined towards the Whispers Bard since it'll help keep your melee attack relevant in this case. Cutting Words is competing with your already solid list of reactions, and you're already picking up a selection of low level spells off non-Bard lists (which is what the level 6 Magical Secrets would be doing for you).

Edit Some quick Anydice calcs: https://anydice.com/program/15c8e

[Skylivedk]

You sir are addicted to Armor of Agathys! :smallsmile: It occurs to me that the Ancestral Barbarian posted above actually makes a pretty good teammate to an AoA build, since they grant Resistance and damage reduction to their allies (and unlike a typical AB isn't too uncomfortable backing up and letting someone else rotate in). AoA builds are always looking for resistance and damage reduction.
I know! And depending on your ruling, Redemption Paladins are extremely lovable as well. And anyone with Warding Bond (maybe in the backline stepdancing in a Healing Spirit) is your BFF as well. I tried AoA on my GWM Hexblade and after the first couple of combats having it outdamage any other source of damage... What can I say. It was hard to let go of me trying to optimise it further. Also; I kinda love the non-tank looking tanks. It breaks hard with stereotypes in a pretty cool way, IMO.



Other good allies for an AoA build are Abjurers and Lore Bards. As nice as AoA setups are on their own, it's even better with party synergy :smallsmile:
No doubt. It's just not always feasible. Also, you probably want something else in your sleeve once those damn Cold Immune critters come along



So for the Pal 3/Abjurer X, you don't actually have enough ASIs for the gnome racial, Warcaster, Res:Con, and Max Int. The build only gets 4 ASIs and the first one is delayed until level 7. I'm also unsure that the smites are worth the delay in casting progression. And as you said the build's quite MAD; besides your Channel Divinity you might struggle to hit with those smites.
I know - I'd probably let go of either Res:Con or maxing Int. Since we're talking about a tank, that max int is perhaps not necessary. Other options, even though they make want to cry a little on the inside of my otherwise hairy manly-man chest, is to go 4 Paladin... but then again; 6 Paladin is right around the corner, and then 7 level Paladin with your amount of spell slots to utterly cripple anyone within 10 feet of you (can't move, can only hit you at disadvantage and if they do hit, eat AoA) is tempting. It's definitely different :D



The Hexblade/Abjurer setup seems more promising to my first impression. It might be worthwhile to delay the second level of Hexblade until you get some good Wizard tools under your belt first though. Maybe after Wizard 5. Yup. AoA is not all that in the beginning either. It picks up once you have some higher spell slots. As far as I can see it's one of the best damaging upcast scales in the game.




What's the intended combo for Cutting Words + AT 9 (Magical Ambush) here?

Cutting Words activates "When a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a damage roll" and does not help against saving throws.
Mostly my idiocy. Forgot it didn't hit saving throws. A more proud person would have said: having both means that no matter the disable (ability check from illusions or saving throw), you've got the tool for the job. But yeah... Idiocy.



Anyways, seems like it could work out. You max your Charisma by 9 and can pick up War Caster from Variant Human. You then put enemies in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation by standing next to them with AoA; they either attack you and have to go through Medium Armor / Shield / Uncanny Dodge / AoA, or walk away and eat a Booming Blade Sneak Attack. Nobody likes being hit by Booming Blade Sneak Attacks. And at higher levels, you'll be able to combine Magical Ambush with an accelerated spell progression from Bard, though that takes a while to come online.

Personally I think I'd be more inclined towards the Whispers Bard since it'll help keep your melee attack relevant in this case. Cutting Words is competing with your already solid list of reactions, and you're already picking up a selection of low level spells off non-Bard lists (which is what the level 6 Magical Secrets would be doing for you).

Edit Some quick Anydice calcs: https://anydice.com/program/15c8e

Point taken. I've not played Whisper before... And I do love stealing spells with Magical Secrets + more proficiencies. Thank you for the anydice; it seems like pretty reasonable damage from a tank (unless I'm completely off my rocker). Especially considering all the other things you bring to the table.

Was it on purpose you skipped one of the builds? The quad-build. What I like about all of them is the amount of thinking they take. You have plenty of options every turn for all parts of your action economy. Even your positioning is more key than for most people; your movement can cause damage as you step in and out of threat ranges (step-dancing mooks to their own death is hilarious).

[Tallytrev813]

Ok, i've been talking this up in random threads but i think it's a SUPER cool build, so im going to put it in here. The idea is great, it's STRAIGHT Totem Barbarian, so it's simple. You're going to abuse the damage resistance and add a few Feats to become the stickiest, and IMO best, single target tank available.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiFsZnRl7DiAhWOuVkKHWAFC9AQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F300-King-Leonidas-Shield-Rain-Spartans-Movie-Art-Huge-Print-Poster-D7693%2F32680633605.html&psig=AOvVaw1g1hsZqYc7iUxRjk8mrKlr&ust=1558650422391655

KING LEONIDAS BARBARIAN:

Variant Human, Start 16/14/16/8/10/8
Feat: Polearm Master

Level 1:
Start with a Spear and Shield
Your AC is 17, you have huge hit die/HP pool, and you get a bonus action attack to abuse RAGE damage.

Your DPS is strong...way strong (1d6+5 + 1d4+5 each turn), your survivability is great.

Level 2:
Reckless Attack and Danger Sense give you solid situational attack buff and great Dex saves.

Level 3:
Choose Bear totem. You're now a Bear, you get 1/2 damage to almost everything.

Level 4:
ASI - Sentinel
You now become pretty sticky as a tank, your HP continues to skyrocket. Non-Casters have trouble getting away from you.

Level 5:
Extra attack + Fast Movement
You're faster, so they cant run. Extra attack now means you're hitting them 3 times per turn, plus utilizing a reaction attack (Either from PAM when they come within range of you, or from Sentinel if they try to run).

Level 6:
Pick whichever path feature you like that fits your campaign. If the DM pays attention to encumbrance or travel a lot, take Bear or Elk. If its a lot of woods and outdoors, take Eagle. If you want skills, Tiger. Pick whichever.

Level 7:
Feral Instinct
Now you have Adv on initiative...meaning theres a good chance you get to go before the badguys...meaning you are in their face before they can hit your party.

Level 8:
ASI: Feat - Mage Slayer
Now, you have become about as sticky as it gets. If they're a melee or Archer, Sentinel locks them down. If they're a caster, Mage Slayer absolutely destroys their concentration spells and provides you AoO's - AND gives you defense against them casting spells on you! You are a monster single target tank, and once you get in a badguys face...they're going nowhere.
================================================== ====

Feel free, from this point on, to build as you see fit.
If you get get a +Strength item (Belt of Giant Strength, Gauntlets of Ogre Power) awesome, it means you can pick up Resilient Feat for Wisdom saves. Your remaining ASI's should go to Strength, Resilient - Wisdom, and/or Con depending on what you want to do (Damage vs tank).

Worth mentioning, when you get to level 14 - take Bear totem. Your already sticky tank becomes unbelievably epicly sticky (Imposes disadvantage when they don't attack you).

Essentially, you're a shirtless Spear/Shield barrel chested human who cant be taken down and stabs the crap out of everyone.

YOU'RE KING LEONIDAS

Love to hear all of your thoughts on this, I love it in theory but havent been in a game thats gotten high enough where im doing this build to use it.

Edit: You could, Techincally, do this without Spear/Shield and go Halbert or something and pick up GWM later to really do a ton of damage, though you'd sacrifice quite a bit of tanky-survivability

[Skylivedk]

SNIP

No offense, but it seems neither fun, nor eclectic to me. Not fun, because the build has limited options in and out of combat. Not eclectic, because it's super standard.

[LudicSavant]

Hey Tallytrev, thanks for posting! :smallsmile:



Love to hear all of your thoughts on this, I love it in theory but havent been in a game thats gotten high enough where im doing this build to use it.

My quick 2cp:
1) Your damage starts off solid, but does not scale especially well (https://anydice.com/program/15ce5) without magic items or buffs.

Anydice data posted represents your DPR at all levels, and with a variety of different conditions (rage or not, reckless or not, round 2+ of rage or not since you don't get your bonus action on round 1 of rage) against the average AC of a monster with a CR equal to your level. As you can see you're looking at figures like 17-36 DPR at level 19, plus another ~9 if you get a reaction attack.

Part of this is just the nature of straight-class SnB Bar-bear-ians (I mentioned something about this in the Ancestral Nightmare post, and how I worked around it in that particular case), another part is your delay in getting Strength boosts (obviously mitigated if you can procure a Giant's Belt), and yet another part is the limited synergy between the Barbarian's kit and Leondidas's feats (for example, you can't bonus action attack on a round you enter rage, and you can't apply Reckless Attack to reaction attacks due to the "on your turn" wording).
2) The fact that you can't benefit from Reckless Attack on reactions and you're not maxing Strength until level 16 means that you have a fairly high chance of missing with Sentinel and just letting people walk by you.

So for example, at level 11 against an "average CR 11" foe, you can expect 11 (entering rage / nonreckless) to 24 (already raging / reckless) DPR on your turn, and only a 55% chance of landing a Sentinel hit if they decide to walk away from you.
3) Don't count on being in rage all the time; you don't have enough for a 6-encounter adventuring day until level 17. Not specifically directed at you, but just a note on Barb builds in general.

4) I would recommend taking Str boosts or Res(Wis) before Mage Slayer. Not only is Mage Slayer situational, but there's enough ways for smart mage players to play around it that it may not be a lot more valuable against them than some more general purpose feats are. YMMV.

5) If you wanna Shove/Grapple, you have to put your spear away to free up a hand (doffing the shield would take an action). You can at least throw the spear in your hand, then draw another spear.

[Tallytrev813]

I suppose the later levels would be less about DPR and more about tanking - since the idea of the build was made to be disruptive in different ways (And sacrifice lots of damage for a shield). I was hoping all the additional attacks would make up for most of the DPR (The reaction attacks and bonus attacks). How much effectiveness would be added by maxing strength early and delaying Mageslayer?

I had envisioned a character that was Uber tough who utilized most of his offensive effectiveness via imposing the effects of Sentinel and Mageslayer through multiple attacks. Reducing speeds to 0, disrupting concentration, and imposing disadvantage on the enemy for not focusing on the barbarian - which is kind of what the traditional tank does in my experience.

[LudicSavant]

I suppose the later levels would be less about DPR and more about tanking - since the idea of the build was made to be disruptive in different ways (And sacrifice lots of damage for a shield). How much effectiveness would be added by maxing strength early and delaying Mageslayer?

Getting a +2 Str at level 8 instead of Mage Slayer would add about 15% more DPR over levels 8-15. And landing stuff like Sentinel a bit more often. And of course a bit better on Str saves/checks.


I had envisioned a character that was Uber tough who utilized most of his offensive effectiveness via imposing the effects of Sentinel and Mageslayer through multiple attacks. Reducing speeds to 0, disrupting concentration, and imposing disadvantage on the enemy for not focusing on the barbarian - which is kind of what the traditional tank does in my experience.

*Nod*

One effective way to help lock people down as a Barbarian in particular is shoving/grappling.

For a Barbarian it has a very high chance of working, especially if you grab 1 level of Rogue (or pick up Prodigy or something). For example a raging 20 Str / 6 proficiency / Rogue 1 Barbarian has a what, 98% chance to successfully shove a 20 Strength creature? 90% against a 30 strength creature?

It also allows you to get Advantage without using Reckless, and granting the enemy Disadvantage to hit you... which will make a big difference in the case of a shield-wielding Barbarian.

The limitation is against folks like teleporters, but Sentinel won't stop the movement of those enemies either. Another limitation is that you can't use it against enemies who are too big.

As for damage, it's not your main job but there are some good ways to boost your progression at the later levels without really affecting your tankiness much (such as dipping Fighter). Generally speaking there's not a whole lot of hotness after Barbarian 15 (it's mostly just the capstone), so feel free to grab some features elsewhere.

Edit

Level 6:
Pick whichever path feature you like that fits your campaign. If the DM pays attention to encumbrance or travel a lot, take Bear or Elk. If its a lot of woods and outdoors, take Eagle. If you want skills, Tiger. Pick whichever.

One more random Barb tip I'll add: Don't take Wolf Totem at level 6. The reason for this is because it's basically a straight up worse version of Elk. Here's why:

Wolf 6 basically lets you do certain actions while moving at a Normal or Fast pace instead of a Slow one. Elk 6 makes the entire party's Slow pace equal to the Wolf's fast pace, and therefore accomplishes everything Wolf does and more.

But aside from that, yeah, pick whichever suits your taste. :smallsmile:

[Tallytrev813]

Getting a +2 Str at level 8 instead of Mage Slayer would add about 15% more DPR over levels 8-15. And landing stuff like Sentinel a bit more often. And of course a bit better on Str saves/checks.



*Nod*

One effective way to help lock people down as a Barbarian in particular is shoving/grappling.

For a Barbarian it has a very high chance of working, especially if you grab 1 level of Rogue (or pick up Prodigy or something). For example a raging 20 Str / 6 proficiency / Rogue 1 Barbarian has a what, 98% chance to successfully shove a 20 Strength creature? 90% against a 30 strength creature?

It also allows you to get Advantage without using Reckless, and granting the enemy Disadvantage to hit you... which will make a big difference in the case of a shield-wielding Barbarian.

The limitation is against folks like teleporters, but Sentinel won't stop the movement of those enemies either. Another limitation is that you can't use it against enemies who are too big.

As for damage, it's not your main job but there are some good ways to boost your progression at the later levels without really affecting your tankiness much (such as dipping Fighter). Generally speaking there's not a whole lot of hotness after Barbarian 15 (it's mostly just the capstone), so feel free to grab some features elsewhere.

Edit


One more random Barb tip I'll add: Don't take Wolf Totem at level 6. The reason for this is because it's basically a straight up worse version of Elk. Here's why:

Wolf 6 basically lets you do certain actions while moving at a Normal or Fast pace instead of a Slow one. Elk 6 makes the entire party's Slow pace equal to the Wolf's fast pace, and therefore accomplishes everything Wolf does and more.

But aside from that, yeah, pick whichever suits your taste. :smallsmile:

For whatever reason, i just hate the flavor of a grappling tank. You know?
It just doesnt fit my mental picture correctly...like grab a guy and tackle them to the floor and bear hug them?

Also, as much as i think there's awesome stuff to get from the dips...you lose the capstone. And, IMO, the Barbarian capstone may be the best in the game. Especially with all the tankiness you get from the extra +2 con in addition to the 24 +7mod strength.


And yah - the wolf aspect at lvl 6 is very meh.
I normally take Eagle. DMs in real life tend to shy away from encumbrance and travel speed in my experience.

[Aidamis]

Bookmarked. Thanks for the compilation, all of those ideas sound great!

On the topic of builds, could you please give me feedback on mine? it's a weird (not super serious nor necessarily competitive) build idea:

low-level honorary "Fighter" War Wizard: a Charlatan background medieval James Bond knock-off posing as a Fighter when he's actually a mage.

At 1st level, we have a VHuman with Resilient (Con), 8 Str, 15+1 Dex, 13+1 Con, 15+1 Int, 9 Wis, 12 Cha.
Fights with two daggers and occasionally fires off a hand crossbow shot.
Hides his magical gem spellcasting focus in one of the daggers.
Wears leather clothes that pass as armor in appearance but actually uses Mage Armor and sometimes Shield.
Skilled in Deception, Stealth, and Sleight of Hand. Dresses well, carries a fake signet ring, forged papers and other lineage documents, Knight's Tale style.


Work-in-progress build I intend to use on a quest-giver NPC or for pre built character options.

Thanks for the feedback!

[LudicSavant]

Bookmarked. Thanks for the compilation, all of those ideas sound great!

:smallsmile:


On the topic of builds, could you please give me feedback on mine? it's a weird (not super serious nor necessarily competitive) build idea:

low-level honorary "Fighter" War Wizard: a Charlatan background medieval James Bond knock-off posing as a Fighter when he's actually a mage.

At 1st level, we have a VHuman with Resilient (Con), 8 Str, 15+1 Dex, 13+1 Con, 15+1 Int, 9 Wis, 12 Cha.
Fights with two daggers and occasionally fires off a hand crossbow shot.
Hides his magical gem spellcasting focus in one of the daggers.
Wears leather clothes that pass as armor in appearance but actually uses Mage Armor and sometimes Shield.
Skilled in Deception, Stealth, and Sleight of Hand. Dresses well, carries a fake signet ring, forged papers and other lineage documents, Knight's Tale style.


Work-in-progress build I intend to use on a quest-giver NPC or for pre built character options.

Thanks for the feedback!

At a low enough level just having 16 Dex and some daggers is good enough to give you 2d4+3, so this will work there... though obviously it won't scale much beyond that. Plus your familiar can add some more contribution. The main issue will be the fact that you have just 8 hit points in melee (a typical Fighter will have 12-13).

If you want to have a worthwhile melee attack as a Wizard later on, there are at least two ways to do it: SCAGtrips, or Bladesinger using the right buff spells.

[Aidamis]

:smallsmile:



At a low enough level just having 16 Dex and some daggers is good enough to give you 2d4+3, so this will work there... though obviously it won't scale much beyond that. Plus your familiar can add some more contribution. The main issue will be the fact that you have just 8 hit points in melee (a typical Fighter will have 12-13).

If you want to have a worthwhile melee attack as a Wizard later on, there are at least two ways to do it: SCAGtrips, or Bladesinger using the right buff spells.

Thank you LudicSavant. You're right for reminding me of the low HP :) Bladesinger looks like an interesting subclass and and the "SCAGtrips" sound good. You mentionned buff spells - I could get Magic Initiate with Bless. I can live with 1/long rest Bless since Bladesong is 2/short or long rest anyway, or I can be nice to my teammates and get buffs for free ^^.

ps: currently reading your half-feats post. Good stuff.

[LudicSavant]

Thank you LudicSavant. You're right for reminding me of the low HP :) Bladesinger looks like an interesting subclass and and the "SCAGtrips" sound good. You mentionned buff spells - I could get Magic Initiate with Bless. I can live with 1/long rest Bless since Bladesong is 2/short or long rest anyway, or I can be nice to my teammates and get buffs for free ^^.

ps: currently reading your half-feats post. Good stuff.

Here's a resource for Bladesingers: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?540778-GUIDE-Inquisitor-Lim-s-Bladesinger-and-Wizard-Guide-Xanathar-s-Edition

[MeeposFire]

I really like the celestial generalist and I think there is room to reduce say melee some to get access to even more potential versatility. To make room for that melee you have to spend 3 cantrips to make it work which is obviously viable but if you really want some more cantrips you can give up booming blade, greenflame blade, and shillelagh and pick up 3 other cantrips you really love. In that case your "melee" option is sacred flame. It is not as good especially since it does not get a situational bump like the melee cantrips but it can do the job and since it is a save spell it can be used in melee with no problems. You do give up some capability in melee but if you really want/need more cantrip versatility it is an option and you do not give up the ability to be able to do something to someone in melee range (and can use the opportunity attack from warcaster). It also gives a reason to have sacred flame even though you have no choice and it is not something that everyone cares about.

[Mjolnirbear]

Warlord Battlemaster (Support Fighter)

So at the base of it, a fighter must fight. That's their function, the reason they have so many blasted attacks each round. But that doesn't mean a fighter must *only* fight. Here's my take on a support fighter, and a likely contender for a leader-type build too. It's a halfling because of the halfling racial feat; but any Charisma race can be valuable, or going vHuman to get more goodies sooner.

Warlord Halfling (Battlemaster Fighter support build)
Suggested Feats: Bountiful Luck, Healer, Inspiring Leader, Martial Adept, Shield Master, Sentinel, Ritual Caster, Magic Initiate (More or less any order or priority you prefer)

Suggested Stats: Dexterity > Charisma = Constitution (You could prioritize Charisma for Rally and Inspiring Leader, depending on when you pick up Inspiring Leader, but your attacks and maneuver save DCs rely on Dex. As support, you don't really need higher than a 16 in anything).

Suggested Fighting Style: Protection, of course

Suggested Maneuvers: Commander's Strike, Rally, Goading Attack, Trip Attack, Distracting Strike, Maneuvering Attack (The first three should be your picks at level 3)

This build is online at level 1 (if vHuman) or level 3. Because a fighter has so many feats, it will be easy to get what you need. You get two maneuvers per fight until you get six Superiority Dice. Protection Fighting Style or Sentinel can reliably use your reaction while Commander's Strike and Shield Master reliably use your bonus action.

Prioritize Commander's Strike if: you have a rogue in the party, or an enemy is stunned or unconscious or paralysed (because of crits). Use Goading Attack if your squishies are targeted. Prioritize Rally on front-line fighters or those who are badly wounded.

You can build this many different ways. Bountiful Luck, Sentinel and Protection fighting style compete for your reaction; instead of a halfling, you could build a dragonborn with Dragon Fear. Find Familiar can grant bonus help actions to your allies. Both Magic Initiate and Ritual Caster can net Find Familiar as well as other good picks to help your teammates.

Good Magic Initiate picks:

Fog Cloud (auto-escape)
Sanctuary (protection)
Faerie Fire
Bless
Goodberry

Cantrips: Thorn Whip, Mending, Guidance, Message, Friends (take the attention off the too-plucky wizard, and keep it)

Good Ritual Caster picks

Alarm
Unseen Servant
Tenser's Floating Disc
Detect Magic / Identify

[Mjolnirbear]

Dragonriders (Sort of)

This is a fun little project which has various builds. If your DM is lenient, beg him to put Dragon's Breath from XGtE onto your class list, perhaps as a 'racial spell'.

Kobold Paladin

The Kobold Paladin comes online when it gets access to Find Steed. While not on the spell's official list of available steeds, a Giant Lizard is in line with most other mounts. Another option would be a raptor dinosaur, such as a young Deinonychus or Elder Velociraptor.

Suggested Stats: Prioritize Dex for ranged combat (especially if your steed has a climb speed) or Charisma for spells.
Suggested Spells: Find Steed (Required); Dragon's Breath (DM willing); Heroism, Divine Favour, or Shield of Faith (in melee combat); Branding Smite for ranged combat
Suggested Feats: Mounted Combat; Crossbow Expert (if going ranged); Warcaster;

Heroism, Barding, and Shield of Faith can help obviate the need for Mounted Combat. Warcaster with Command is a truly amazing combination. Your fighting style should probably be Defense or Duelling, though using Protection with your mount can be a good combo as well. You will almost always have Pack Tactics helping you attack.

This build also works if you fight side-by-side with your mount. Your mount would be able to attack more often but would be at greater risk.

Kobold Inventor Kobold Artificer Battlesmith, Fighter 1 dip (optional)
A Battle Smith is the subclass of choice here, since Iron Defender can take any medium form. You can even fluff it as having (useless) wings.

Suggested Stats: Intelligence > Dexterity = Constitution
Suggested Infusions: Thrown Weapon (if dipping for Duelling Fighting Style) or Repeating Weapon
Suggested Spells: Animated Object, Tiny Servant, Arcane Weapon, Warding Bond

With the Thrown Weapon infusion (with minature dragon wings doing the 'returning') and the Duelling fighting style, you can fight at range yet still benefit from +3 damage per throw and your weapon can 'breathe fire'. You don't need Mounted Combat because your Iron Defender is tough (and potentially not a mount since mounts are creatures, not objects). Create tiny dragon figures out of metal for your Tiny Servant and Animated Object spells. Use Warding Bond with your Iron Defender to spread out the damage you take and either let it die or have it repair itself.


Kobold Packmaster (Shepherd Druid)
You thought this would be the ranger, I bet. But no, you have far, far more fun as a druid! This is how you make your DM tear out her hair in frustration. To avoid problems and slowing combat, have all your viable creatures' information ready immediately, and keep your commands simple.

Suggested Stats: Wisdom > Dex = Con
Suggested Spirit: Bear most of the time
Suggested Spells: Conjure Animals, Conjure Minor Elementals

You can start with this spell when you get Conjure Animals, which will last you longer than most other casters because your swarm of velociraptors will be much tougher than usual. When you summon minor elementals, you can fluff them as tiny elemental dragons instead of mephits.

[Mjolnirbear]

The Undecided Spare

Every noble couple needs to set about making some zerglings to fight the family's wars and run the family's businesses. They call these spawn the Heir and the Spare, because children aren't people and apparently have no feelings. So you grow up where your only purpose depends on your sib dying, and Dad wonders why you can't pick one job and stick with it.

Or so says you, The Spare.

The objective here is to make a viable build involving nothing but low-level dips (no higher than level 3). As a consequence, Extra Attack will be unattainable, as well as knowledge of high-level spells. You'll have high-level spell slots, however, and we'll need to take levels in either warlock, moon druid, or paladin to best make use of them.

Due to having only a single attack, attack boosters such as Sneak Attack and the SCAG cantrips will be very effective. Due to having multiple classes and hence dependance on multiple attributes and the lack of feats, you should build using either Dexterity or Charisma, but Strength is also viable.

The Dabbler (Physical Build)
Suggested Stats: 16/14/14/8/10/13 (if Barbarian) or 10/16/14/8/14/12 (if Monk)
Suggested Classes: Fighter (Battlemaster), Rogue (Any), Barbarian (Any), Monk (Any)

The Dabbler cannot really go further than Tier 3, without either taking on a spellcasting class or going higher than level 3. It suffers for a complete lack of ASIs and Extra Attack but gives a ton of utility options via Maneuvers, Rage, rogue skills and more--with so many short-rest resources, you almost always have something besides "I attack" to do. If you decide you must have a feat such as PAM, GWM, or Magic Initiate (for Booming Blade mostly), go vHuman.

I recommend dual-weilding daggers, the two-weapon fighting style, and medium armor instead of relying on Unarmored Defense if you go Barbarian. You could be a dwarf and do Battlerager to get a bonus action attack instead, in which case use Duelling fighting style or Defense. Start with Barbarian because of survivability. In the event that you want to splash some spellcasting, I'd recommend Paladin for smites, or Warlock for invocations and pact boon.

For the monk build you need a weapon that is both Finesse and a monk weapon. Kensai increases your options here. You cannot wear armor or use shields so you are squishier, but you also have more attacks and more versatility due to Ki. If you want some spellcasting, splash some Cleric or Druid in there. Moon druid would use up spell slots for longevity, and grant you mulitattack for when you run out of Ki.

There are a lot of different ways to flavour your Dabbler. Assassin and Shadow Monk offer a totally different feel than Totem Warrior and Scout. For a semi-caster, you can change Battlemaster for Eldritch Knight, add Arcane Trickster, and then go 4-element monk. Interestingly, you can give a very Starfire feel with Sun Soul monk. Zealot/Vengeance Paladin makes for a great Templar or Inquisitor.





The Dilettante (Charisma Build)
Suggested Stats: Charisma > Dexterity
Suggested Classes: Warlock, Sorcerer, Paladin, Bard, Cleric or Druid

You are a spellcaster, but you can choose to fight with a melee build or go pure caster. Build with Hexblade if you plan on going melee; any other Patron works for the caster version. This Spare can go high levels and will always have a use for its spell slots via Paladin Smites or Sorcery Points. Most interesting is how many cantrips you get; you can choose a few damage options and then all the fun story cantrips to use during Social and Exploration.

The melee version will require a SCAG cantrip such as Booming Blade. A splash of Tempest Cleric for Destructive Wrath, Wrath of the Storm and Heavy Armor, or Arcana Cleric extra cantrips and Heavy Armor, could be beneficial. You can start with Sorcerer for the Constitution proficiency, or either Paladin or Cleric for better armor and more hit points. You can use your higher spell slots as a source of Sorcery Points to quicken Booming Blade, and as Smite fodder. You do not need Pact of the Blade unless you want to use Charisma with a heavy or two-handed weapon. If you must have a feat, choose vHuman.

The caster version will not be smiting; all the excess spell slots will go to Sorcery Points and upcast spells. Your main damage is likely Hex plus Agonizing Blast, possibly twice if you choose Quicken for your metamagic (heck yes!). This is your most efficient use of resources, but your ability to upcast low-level spells is pretty amazing. You can pump out upcast Hold Persons, Magic Missiles, Thunderwave, Scorching Rays, or other great spells.

The dilettante has near-infinite flavour options. Go fey with Feylock, Druid, Ancients Paladin. A 'cursed' theme with Warlock and Wild Magic Sorcerer. A Vengeance theme with Fiendlock and Vengeance Paladin.

[OBoyd]

The Undecided Spare

Every noble couple needs to set about making some zerglings to fight the family's wars and run the family's businesses. They call these spawn the Heir and the Spare, because children aren't people and apparently have no feelings. So you grow up where your only purpose depends on your sib dying, and Dad wonders why you can't pick one job and stick with it.

Or so says you, The Spare.

The objective here is to make a viable build involving nothing but low-level dips (no higher than level 3). As a consequence, Extra Attack will be unattainable, as well as knowledge of high-level spells. You'll have high-level spell slots, however, and we'll need to take levels in either warlock, moon druid, or paladin to best make use of them.

Due to having only a single attack, attack boosters such as Sneak Attack and the SCAG cantrips will be very effective. Due to having multiple classes and hence dependance on multiple attributes and the lack of feats, you should build using either Dexterity or Charisma, but Strength is also viable.

The Dabbler (Physical Build)
Suggested Stats: 16/14/14/8/10/13 (if Barbarian) or 10/16/14/8/14/12 (if Monk)
Suggested Classes: Fighter (Battlemaster), Rogue (Any), Barbarian (Any), Monk (Any)

The Dabbler cannot really go further than Tier 3, without either taking on a spellcasting class or going higher than level 3. It suffers for a complete lack of ASIs and Extra Attack but gives a ton of utility options via Maneuvers, Rage, rogue skills and more--with so many short-rest resources, you almost always have something besides "I attack" to do. If you decide you must have a feat such as PAM, GWM, or Magic Initiate (for Booming Blade mostly), go vHuman.

I recommend dual-weilding daggers, the two-weapon fighting style, and medium armor instead of relying on Unarmored Defense if you go Barbarian. You could be a dwarf and do Battlerager to get a bonus action attack instead, in which case use Duelling fighting style or Defense. Start with Barbarian because of survivability. In the event that you want to splash some spellcasting, I'd recommend Paladin for smites, or Warlock for invocations and pact boon.

For the monk build you need a weapon that is both Finesse and a monk weapon. Kensai increases your options here. You cannot wear armor or use shields so you are squishier, but you also have more attacks and more versatility due to Ki. If you want some spellcasting, splash some Cleric or Druid in there. Moon druid would use up spell slots for longevity, and grant you mulitattack for when you run out of Ki.

There are a lot of different ways to flavour your Dabbler. Assassin and Shadow Monk offer a totally different feel than Totem Warrior and Scout. For a semi-caster, you can change Battlemaster for Eldritch Knight, add Arcane Trickster, and then go 4-element monk. Interestingly, you can give a very Starfire feel with Sun Soul monk. Zealot/Vengeance Paladin makes for a great Templar or Inquisitor.





The Dilettante (Charisma Build)
Suggested Stats: Charisma > Dexterity
Suggested Classes: Warlock, Sorcerer, Paladin, Bard, Cleric or Druid

You are a spellcaster, but you can choose to fight with a melee build or go pure caster. Build with Hexblade if you plan on going melee; any other Patron works for the caster version. This Spare can go high levels and will always have a use for its spell slots via Paladin Smites or Sorcery Points. Most interesting is how many cantrips you get; you can choose a few damage options and then all the fun story cantrips to use during Social and Exploration.

The melee version will require a SCAG cantrip such as Booming Blade. A splash of Tempest Cleric for Destructive Wrath, Wrath of the Storm and Heavy Armor, or Arcana Cleric extra cantrips and Heavy Armor, could be beneficial. You can start with Sorcerer for the Constitution proficiency, or either Paladin or Cleric for better armor and more hit points. You can use your higher spell slots as a source of Sorcery Points to quicken Booming Blade, and as Smite fodder. You do not need Pact of the Blade unless you want to use Charisma with a heavy or two-handed weapon. If you must have a feat, choose vHuman.

The caster version will not be smiting; all the excess spell slots will go to Sorcery Points and upcast spells. Your main damage is likely Hex plus Agonizing Blast, possibly twice if you choose Quicken for your metamagic (heck yes!). This is your most efficient use of resources, but your ability to upcast low-level spells is pretty amazing. You can pump out upcast Hold Persons, Magic Missiles, Thunderwave, Scorching Rays, or other great spells.

The dilettante has near-infinite flavour options. Go fey with Feylock, Druid, Ancients Paladin. A 'cursed' theme with Warlock and Wild Magic Sorcerer. A Vengeance theme with Fiendlock and Vengeance Paladin.

Nice idea. Ranger has the same MC restrictions as Paladin, so you could add another 3 levels there as well.

[Story_Optimized]

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You feel my pain.

Here's one I've been playing around with: a melee warlock based around passive damage. The point of this build is to preserve, as much as possible, the warlock's action economy whilst damaging the enemy. The build isn't bad levels 1-5, and then explodes into action at level 6. As the title suggests, mostly this occurs through retributive effects when the warlock gets hit. It's not bad in a party, but could also serve as a fairly solid solo character.

There are other ways to get at a similar build - but I thought this was an interesting take on things for a Warlock. Happy to take suggestions!

15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 - Standard point array
Tiefling of Levistus - (+2 Cha, +1 Con)
Str - 8
Dex - 12
Con - 14
Wis - 14
Int - 10
Cha - 17

Background - GGtR: Orzhov. Orzhov gives you two third-level spells that really improve this build: spirit guardians, and bestow curse. (No need for Sign of Ill Omen!) Both don't come online till later though.

Level 1 - Storm Cleric 1
10 HP, AC 17 (Scale Mail, Dex +1, Shield) - Get either Half Plate or Breastplate as soon as you can.
Storm Cleric nets you heavy armor, shields, and the "Wrath of the Storm" ability. You're decently hard to hit, though your attack damage will be much better with your cantrips than your sword. Basically, you can deal 2d8 damage with your reaction to someone who has damaged you with a melee attack, and it recharges on a short rest, like all of your future warlock abilities long rest. This build can do this 2x per day short rest, or up to 6x per day if you can get 3 short rests in. You also get three cantrips, and proficiency with martial weapons. Your physical stats aren't great, so I would recommend a finesse weapon like a rapier or scimitar.
Suggested spells: fog cloud, thunderwave (free!), guiding bolt, shield of faith, cure wounds.
Cantrips: Friends, guidance (free), toll the dead, mending, thaumaturgy. You're going to get a lot more cantrips, so pick social/exploration heavy ones here.
Spell slots: 2 level 1 Cleric spells

Passive damage - 9, on avg. 2x per short rest.

Level 2 - Storm Cleric 1, Fiendpact Warlock 1 (X from now on).
Warlock gives you Armor of Agathys, which is going to be the primary spell of this build for... well, the rest of your adventuring career. It lasts an hour, doesn't require concentration, gives you a mini shield of 5 temporary hit points, and does 5 no-save cold damage to anyone who hits you with a melee attack while the temporary hit points remain. These temp hp won't stack with Dark One's Blessing, but that's ok. More importantly, you can afford to burn two first level cleric slots to keep recharging AoA; at this point, you can recharge that shield 4x in a row before you need a short rest. Or, you can burn that cleric spell slot on Hex, and do more damage with your melee attacks.
Cantrips: Green-flame blade, eldritch blast, 1 optional (lightning lure, blade ward, etc.)
Spell slots: 2 level 1 Cleric spells (Hex, AoA)
1 Warlock spell slot (AoA)

Passive damage - 14 on avg, 2x per short rest, 5 thereafter

Levels 3 -5 (Cleric 1 / Warlock 4)
Level 3 gives you invocations, a free 1x per day 2nd level AoA, and second level spells. Grasp of Hadar will let you pull your enemies to you to encourage them to attack you, instead of your possibly squishier friends. Other invocations to consider are the ever popular "Agonizing Blast" and "Devil's Sight" for the darkness combo your Levistus heritage provides at level 4. You'll want to take "Flames of Phlegethos" as your feat, instead of the ASI. For your Pact, any of the three work, though Pact of the Tome with Shillelagh gets over your MADness; by the end of this set of levels, your attack jumps from +3 to +7.

Passive damage - 19 - 22.5, on avg. 2x per short rest, 10-12.5 per hit thereafter while you still have hp.

Level 6 - (Cleric 1 / Warlock 5)
This is the level where everything starts to open up. You pick up Cloak of Flies for your invocation, which does 4 no-save poison damage to anything that starts its turn next to you. Your AoA now deals 15 points of damage, and you gain spirit guardians from your background. These all last ten minutes - 60 rounds - after which point you will need a short rest. From here on out, your job is to never get out of combat - if possible, request your DM NOT drop back out of initiative "bullet time" - while you go charging through as many of your opponents as you can. Setting this up takes three rounds, but then lasts for long enough that you can potentially get multiple encounters out of it.

Passive damage - 48.5
Wrath of the storm - 2d8 - 9
Armor of Agathys - 15
Spirit Guardians - 4d8 - 18
Flames of Phlegethos (assuming you attack with green flame blade) - 1d4 - 2.5
Cloak of flies - 4
Damage without them hitting you - 22 per turn.

It's whatever you want really from there. If you stay on the Warlock path, level 7 gives you an extra d10 to a saving throw, 8 bumps your AoA damage up by 5. An ASI at level 9 to bump Charisma will increase your cloak of flies damage by 1, as well as your save DCs; Warcaster is another good pick to give you AoOs and keep Spirit Guardians up. Level 10 bumps your AoA damage by 5 again. Level 11 brings your total number of resistances up to two, which bumps to three at level 12 with fire shield. Fire shield adds another 9.8 damage on average, bringing you up to potentially 69.3 damage per turn, spread out in cold, poison, fire, radiant (or necrotic) and lightning damage - again, before you take an action or bonus action!

The full breakdown, at level 12, is as follows:
Wrath of the storm - 2d8 - 9
Armor of Agathys - 25
Fire shield - 2d8 - 9, 9.8 with flames of Phlegethos
Spirit Guardians - 4d8 - 18
Flames of Phlegethos - 1d4 - 2.5 (assuming you attack with green flame blade; this is bonus damage on top of that)
Cloak of flies - 5
= 69.3 passive damage per round.

Picking up another level of Storm Cleric lets you do max lightning or thunder damage once per long rest, which can either boost your Wrath of the Storm, or make your shatter and thunderwave - and eventually lightning lure and booming blade! - outpace the average fireball. Also, because you have an extra 1st level cleric slot, you can still afford to cast Hex, and use abilities like Maddening Hex (Extra psychic bonus damage!) or Relentless Hex. You may also want to pick up Warcaster to keep your Spirit Guardians up and provoke cantrip AoOs, or Resilient to get a Wisdom save.

The build works fairly well in melee, but suffers against ranged spellcasters and archers; AoE spells especially will be hard for you. One way around this is to use Devil's Sight and your free casting of darkness 1x day to give yourself full concealment while you engage. Relentless Hex is another option to teleport to your foe. Outside of melee, the build isn't bad - you have the best possible Intimidation ability in the game, a free skill due to the doubling up on Religion, and decent Perception. You have options in social and exploration, in other words. Story-wise, I imagine a tiefling Orzhov cleric who rebels and serves a tempest deity, and is thrown out of the guild. They pact with Rakdos for vengeance, and go from there.

Alternate versions of this build include VHuman, who takes Heavy Armor Master at level 1. You lose Flames of Phlegethos, which knocks out 5 damage per turn on avg (more if you are using green-flame blade as your primary attack spell), but you do take less damage per hit, which means your Armor of Agathys stays up for longer. You could also use the Hexblade patron instead of the fiend, who is immediately SAD, and may be more survive-able at lower levels... but that reduces your passive damage output by 9.8 as a tiefling, and by ~15 as a VHuman. However, you also gain shield which is a fantastic option for your cleric spell slots. There's also an option to build this as Paladin of Redemption 3 / Warlock X, but I don't really see a DM letting you get away with passive violence as "non-violence."

Also, because I know someone else will bring it up... Yes, you can also do this type of build as Warlock 2/Abjurer X. However, while very survive-able, that has 2 problems: 1. It does far less passive damage per turn, and 2. @LudicSavant already did a wonderful writeup of an Abjurer Iron Wizard. In this thread. On a side note, VHuman Hexblade Warlock 1 / Abjurer X is another way to make the Iron Wizard work, without playing a hobgoblin - take Lucky at level 1, and you're in business with Medium Armor, shields, and just about everything else.

Thanks so much for reading - I hope you found this fun, and I'm open to any suggestions for improvement!

[Corran]

There are other ways to get at a similar build - but I thought this was an interesting take on things for a Warlock. Happy to take suggestions!

Cool build. Only had a quick look and will read it more carefully later, but yeah, cool build.
One of the other ways to go about it (assuming the aim is retaliatory damage), could be hexblade1 or 2/phoenix sorc 18 or 19. Sorcerer will get us stoneskin (we can extend it if we like) and higher level slots with which to use armor of Agathys. Plus the phoenix (UA, unfortunately) features, although a bit lackluster, play well with our aim here. More slots to use hellish rebuke with, if we want to.

One suggestion would be to take absorb elements (didn't spot it after a quick read), cause it will spare you pain from attacks that will eat into your AoA hp without provoking retaliatory damage. Second suggestion, make room for both resilient con and warcaster, otherwise you will end up losing concentration pretty often (because remember, we are not strictly tanking with AC, but also with hp, so we can be expecting hits). Lastly, consider involving the blade ward cantrip.

Edit: Minion killer is another good name for such builds, cause it will be fights against looooots of minions (correction: a lot of melee minions) where they'll shine the most. And you can kill them (at least most of them) without spilling minion blood all over your good weapons!

[LudicSavant]

Thanks so much for reading - I hope you found this fun, and I'm open to any suggestions for improvement!

Now this is interesting; I was just mulling over a Phlegethos Fiend build myself. :smallsmile: Fiend is an interesting venue for it since you get a floating Resistance (which combos oh-so-well with AoA), regenerating temporary hit points, and Fire Shield on your spell list (normally unique to the Wizard list).

The nice thing about Fire Shield / Phlegethos is that it doesn't pop with damage, so you can theoretically have an endless horde of weak mooks attempting to attack you, dying, and then replenishing your temporary hit points. Forever. Though you'd think the goblins would get the idea after the first couple of times.

It will be interesting to see how this compares to my work-in-progress. One small note however is that the writeup here says that Wrath of the Storm recharges on a short rest. It actually recharges on a long rest.

[Story_Optimized]

Now this is interesting; I was just mulling over a Phlegethos Fiend build myself. :smallsmile: Fiend is an interesting venue for it since you get a floating Resistance (which combos oh-so-well with AoA), regenerating temporary hit points, and Fire Shield on your spell list (normally unique to the Wizard list).

The nice thing about Fire Shield / Phlegethos is that it doesn't pop with damage, so you can theoretically have an endless horde of weak mooks attempting to attack you, dying, and then replenishing your temporary hit points. Forever. Though you'd think the goblins would get the idea after the first couple of times.

It will be interesting to see how this compares to my work-in-progress. One small note however is that the writeup here says that Wrath of the Storm recharges on a short rest. It actually recharges on a long rest.

Thanks so much! Good catch on the short rest error - I was mixing it up with their Destructive Wrath Channel Divinity.

[Story_Optimized]

Cool build. Only had a quick look and will read it more carefully later, but yeah, cool build.
One of the other ways to go about it (assuming the aim is retaliatory damage), could be hexblade1 or 2/phoenix sorc 18 or 19. Sorcerer will get us stoneskin (we can extend it if we like) and higher level slots with which to use armor of Agathys. Plus the phoenix (UA, unfortunately) features, although a bit lackluster, play well with our aim here. More slots to use hellish rebuke with, if we want to.

One suggestion would be to take absorb elements (didn't spot it after a quick read), cause it will spare you pain from attacks that will eat into your AoA hp without provoking retaliatory damage. Second suggestion, make room for both resilient con and warcaster, otherwise you will end up losing concentration pretty often (because remember, we are not strictly tanking with AC, but also with hp, so we can be expecting hits). Lastly, consider involving the blade ward cantrip.

Edit: Minion killer is another good name for such builds, cause it will be fights against looooots of minions (correction: a lot of melee minions) where they'll shine the most. And you can kill them (at least most of them) without spilling minion blood all over your good weapons!

Thanks! Lol re the minion blood - somehow, I've never thought of the character as fastidious, but that would actually be a hoot to rp. Think "Monk," but with a Fiend pact.

Phoenix Sorcerer looks interesting; the original idea for this came from the UA Undying Light Warlock, who got fire shield as well. Those two combo-ed would be pretty nasty, though I'm not sure I'd go full sorcerer on the build; I think you get the vast majority of the benefit with a 1 level dip for mantle of flame.

Absorb elements is a great suggestion, but the build as written doesn't have access to it natively; you'd have to pick it up via Magic Initiate or something similar. Warcaster and Resilient are both great choices; maybe I'll extend the build out to Lvl 20 next week and show how a final version might look.

Thanks so much for the feedback!

[Corran]

Thanks! Lol re the minion blood - somehow, I've never thought of the character as fastidious, but that would actually be a hoot to rp. Think "Monk," but with a Fiend pact.
https://youtu.be/eTRaBNafaU0?t=3171
(from Gamers 3)


Phoenix Sorcerer looks interesting; the original idea for this came from the UA Undying Light Warlock, who got fire shield as well. Those two combo-ed would be pretty nasty, though I'm not sure I'd go full sorcerer on the build; I think you get the vast majority of the benefit with a 1 level dip for mantle of flame.
That's true. As far as I remember, I was mostly interested in the level 6 feature, the one that lets you ''explode'' when you are dropped. And the level 18 feature doubled its damage or sth. Retaliatory damage every round was just an afterthought, but with stoneskin and armor of agathys it kind of worked. Mind you, that build was very vulnerable against top tier foes (had a one shot at level 15) and I assume that it would take a while for it to kick off (if I were to advance it from the low levels), but eh, I kind of liked it. It's a shame though that we don't have a spell list that has all of armor of agathys, fire shield and stoneskin on it (and I admit that it is very likely that I overestimate how impactful stoneskin is for such builds). Perhaps warlock 1/ wizard 7 would be another way to go.


Absorb elements is a great suggestion, but the build as written doesn't have access to it natively; you'd have to pick it up via Magic Initiate or something similar. Warcaster and Resilient are both great choices; maybe I'll extend the build out to Lvl 20 next week and show how a final version might look.
Ah, shame. I thought warlocks get that spell. It's a good spell for sure, but I would be very hesitant to pick up magic initiate just for it. Being a tiefling though does help at least against fire. And fire shield will cover cold, so that's something.[/QUOTE]

[Atomicwraith]

Love this thread! Thanks for starting Ludic! Here are some fun build I've toyed around with/played, that I don't see discussed too much:

Kinetic Blaster
1: Fighter 1 – Close Quarters Shooter Fighting Style
2: Warlock 1 – Hexblade, Hex Warrior, Hexblade’s Curse
3: Warlock 2 – Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast
4: Warlock 3 - Chainlock
5: Warlock 4 – Elven Accuracy
6: Warlock 5 – Grasp of Hadar
7: Sorcerer 1 – Sea Sorcerer, Curse of the Sea
8: Fighter 2 – Action Surge

The Kinetic Blaster runs through battlefields and shapes them manually to his will, by knocking enemies around like pinballs, or yanking them into melee where they don’t want to be.

The core synergy is Repelling Blast(push 10, on each hit) or Grasp of Hadar (pull 10, 1/turn) with Sea Sorecerer’s Curse of the Sea (+15 forced move, 1/turn). So between character level 5-9, that means Pull 25 or Push 35, assuming hits. And these hits pack a punch, with advantage from your invisible Imp, trivantage from Elven Accuracy, 2 beams at these levels, Agonizing Blast (+cha to damage), and Hexblade’s Curse (crit on 19-20). So that is 2(1d10+4), or 19 damage assuming hits but no crtits. Or double that when Action Surge takes it up a notch. Close Quarters Shooter lets you get close to a dude before you blast him away, and ignore close-range cover.

Half-Elven Drow works nicely for this build, with point buy starting at 8/14/16/12/8/17, and then EA taking Charisma up to 18 by level 5.

The build has good utility with 8 cantrips (I suggest Dancing Lights (drow), Eldritch Blast (warlock), Minor Illusion (warlock), Mending (warlock 5), Shape Water (sorc), Mold Earth (sorc), Gust (sorc), Firebolt (sorc)). Hilights of level 1 spells are Shield, Hex, Absorb Elements, and Faerie Fire, Second level: Invisibility, Mirror Image, and Darkness, Third Level: Hypnotic Pattern and Counterspell. Plus an invisible Imp familiar for all kinds of scouting shenanigans.


Celestial Support Specialist
A backliner support variant of this build is to replace Fighter with Artificer, and Hexblade with Celestial Warlock, Half-Elf for vHuman, and 2 of your invocations for Misty Visions and Voice of the Chain Master. This variant sacrifices DPS, but lets a character pick up Inspiring Leader for pre-combat buffs, and near constant surprise via the following combo: dimension shunt an invisible familiar into the next room, see the bad guys laying in wait, observe what the wall where the party will enter looks like, cause a ruckus on the far side of the room, cast Misty Visions to look like the same room wall but displaced 5 feet, party opens door silently and takes position, surprise round.

Flying Tank
1: Barbarian 1 - Rage
2: Artificer 1 – Arcane Weapon, Utility spells
3: Barb 2 – Danger Sense
4: Barb 3 – Ancestral Guardians
5: Barb 4 – Dragon Wings
6: Barb 5 – Second Attack
7: Artificer 2 – Returning Weapon, Goggles of Night
8: Artificer 3 -Battlesmith – Iron Defender

This build is about taking the heat and debuffing the BBEG. The main thrust is to have your Iron Defender debuff the second toughest enemy with Defensive Pounce, while your Ancestral Gurardians focus attack on you. Ideally the BBEG is melee-based, as you’ll be flying with your UA Dragon Wings (Mobile feat if your DM disallows concentrationless flying by level 5). You kite, you breathe fire (did I mention you are a dragonborn?; a red dragonborn’s fire cone is applied from 15 feet up affects a 20x20 space!), you thow a rage-powered javelin which returns again and again.

When rage is down, you are less tanky but for DPS-y, as Arcane Weapon augments your attacks now. Point buy would be 16/14/14/13/8/10 as a Red Dragonborn, so now you are resisting fire as well as physical attacks when you rage. The big potential downside is if you are knocked prone while flying, which will put you on the ground, unless you prepared Feather Fall… which you did.

Outside of combat, you have an Artificer’s great list of utility spells, Guidance and Dancing Lights ready to go, and expertise in Thieves Tools. Plus on-demand flight for scouting and utility.


Yeti, PhD
1: Fighter 1
2: Fighter 2: Action Surge
3: Fighter 3: Scout: Natural Explorer (adv on initiative, adv vs targets who have not acted yet on first round), 4d8 Superiority dice (Precision Attack, Scout’s Evasion)
4: Fighter 4: PAM
5: Fighter 5: Second Attack
6: Artificer 1 Guidance, Arcane Weapon
7: Fighter 6: GWM
8: Artificer 2: Enhanced Weapon, Bag of Holding, Alchemy Jug

This build is about doing big DPS while not on the frontline. A glaive plus a Bigbear’s reach means a range of 15, so ideally this big fast guy hides behind the tank and wrecks opponents with dual attacks of 1d10+3+1d6+10) and a chaser of 1d4+3+1d6+10, or a total of 63 damage if all hit. Best when paired with a strong melee frontline, but also good as a hard-hitting scout force.


Jedi Tank
0: vHuman - PAM
1: Fighter 1 - Dueling
2: Warlock 1 – Great Old One, Hex
3: Warlock 2 – Misty Visions, Mask of Many Faces
4: Warlock 3 – Mirror Image, Tomelock (Find Familiar)
5: Cleric 1 – Tempest Cleric – Warth of the Storm, 2 more spell slots
6: Fighter 2 – Action Surge
7: Fighter 3 – Battle Master, Trip Attack, Goading Attack, Precision Attack
8: Fighter 4 – Sentinel

This build is a tough frontliner with plenty of utility out of combat. In combat, you are a Mirror-Imaged medium-armor wearing shield and quarterstaff build, casting Shillelagh (from Tomelock) and then Hex to fully spin up to speed in combat. You are locking down the chessboard with PAM and Sentinel (and Lucky in 2 more levels). Once Shillelagh and Hex are up, damage is 3(4.5+3.5+2+4) = 42/round, assuming all strikes hit.

Out of combat, you are an enchanter in the vein of a Jedi Consular: with at-will telepathy and spells like Invisibility, Detect Thoughts, Unseen Servant, Mage Hand, Guidance, Minor Illusion, Phantasmal Force, Dissonant Whispers, Misty Step, and Command, plus a familiar, you are quite un-Fighter-y before combat begins. The Cleric level gives double the spells available and a good range of utility.. all warlocks should do this!

Action economy is great with this build: damaging reactions with Wrath of the Storm, bonus actions either to spin up the combat buffs or deal extra enhanced quarterstaff damage with PAM, plus a familiar to grant advantage.

I hope you all can enjoy these, or improve them!

[Klorox]

Love this thread! Thanks for starting Ludic! Here are some fun build I've toyed around with/played, that I don't see discussed too much:

Kinetic Blaster
1: Fighter 1 – Close Quarters Fighting Style
2: Warlock 1 – Hexblade, Hex Warrior, Hexblade’s Curse
3: Warlock 2 – Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast
4: Warlock 3 - Chainlock
5: Warlock 4 – Elven Accuracy
6: Warlock 5 – Grasp of Hadar
7: Sorcerer 1 – Sea Sorcerer, Curse of the Sea
8: Fighter 2 – Action Surge

The Kinetic Blaster runs through battlefields and shapes them manually to his will, by knocking enemies around like pinballs, or yanking them into melee where they don’t want to be.

The core synergy is Repelling Blast(push 10, on each hit) or Grasp of Hadar (pull 10, 1/turn) with Sea Sorecerer’s Curse of the Sea (+15 forced move, 1/turn). So between character level 5-9, that means Pull 25 or Push 35, assuming hits. And these hits pack a punch, with advantage from your invisible Imp, trivantage from Elven Accuracy, 2 beams at these levels, Agonizing Blast (+cha to damage), and Hexblade’s Curse (crit on 19-20). So that is 2(1d10+4), or 19 damage assuming hits but no crtits. Or double that when Action Surge takes it up a notch. Close Quarters Fighter lets you get close to a dude before you blast him away, and ignore close-range cover.

Half-Elven Drow works nicely for this build, with point buy starting at 8/14/16/12/8/17, and then EA taking Charisma up to 18 by level 5.

The build has good utility with 8 cantrips (I suggest Dancing Lights (drow), Eldritch Blast (warlock), Minor Illusion (warlock), Mending (warlock 5), Shape Water (sorc), Mold Earth (sorc), Gust (sorc), Firebolt (sorc)). Hilights of level 1 spells are Shield, Hex, Absorb Elements, and Faerie Fire, Second level: Invisibility, Mirror Image, and Darkness, Third Level: Hypnotic Pattern and Counterspell. Plus an invisible Imp familiar for all kinds of scouting shenanigans.


Celestial Support Specialist
A backliner support variant of this build is to replace Fighter with Artificer, and Hexblade with Celestial Warlock, Half-Elf for vHuman, and 2 of your invocations for Misty Visions and Voice of the Chain Master. This variant sacrifices DPS, but lets a character pick up Inspiring Leader for pre-combat buffs, and near constant surprise via the following combo: dimension shunt an invisible familiar into the next room, see the bad guys laying in wait, observe what the wall where the party will enter looks like, cause a ruckus on the far side of the room, cast Misty Visions to look like the same room wall but displaced 5 feet, party opens door silently and takes position, surprise round.

Flying Tank
1: Barbarian 1 - Rage
2: Artificer 1 – Arcane Weapon, Utility spells
3: Barb 2 – Danger Sense
4: Barb 3 – Ancestral Guardians
5: Barb 4 – Dragon Wings
6: Barb 5 – Second Attack
7: Artificer 2 – Returning Weapon, Goggles of Night
8: Artificer 3 -Battlesmith – Iron Defender

This build is about taking the heat and debuffing the BBEG. The main thrust is to have your Iron Defender debuff the second toughest enemy with Defensive Pounce, while your Ancestral Gurardians focus attack on you. Ideally the BBEG is melee-based, as you’ll be flying with your UA Dragon Wings (Mobile feat if your DM disallows concentrationless flying by level 5). You kite, you breathe fire (did I mention you are a dragonborn?; a red dragonborn’s fire cone is applied from 15 feet up affects a 20x20 space!), you thow a rage-powered javelin which returns again and again.

When rage is down, you are less tanky but for DPS-y, as Arcane Weapon augments your attacks now. Point buy would be 16/14/14/13/8/10 as a Red Dragonborn, so now you are resisting fire as well as physical attacks when you rage. The big potential downside is if you are knocked prone while flying, which will put you on the ground, unless you prepared Feather Fall… which you did.

Outside of combat, you have an Artificer’s great list of utility spells, Guidance and Dancing Lights ready to go, and expertise in Thieves Tools. Plus on-demand flight for scouting and utility.


Yeti, PhD
1: Fighter 1
2: Fighter 2: Action Surge
3: Fighter 3: Scout: Natural Explorer (adv on initiative, adv vs targets who have not acted yet on first round), 4d8 Superiority dice (Precision Attack, Scout’s Evasion)
4: Fighter 4: PAM
5: Fighter 5: Second Attack
6: Artificer 1 Guidance, Arcane Weapon
7: Fighter 6: GWM
8: Artificer 2: Enhanced Weapon, Bag of Holding, Alchemy Jug

This build is about doing big DPS while not on the frontline. A glaive plus a Bigbear’s reach means a range of 15, so ideally this big fast guy hides behind the tank and wrecks opponents with dual attacks of 1d10+3+1d6+10) and a chaser of 1d4+3+1d6+10, or a total of 63 damage if all hit. Best when paired with a strong melee frontline, but also good as a hard-hitting scout force.


Jedi Tank
0: vHuman - PAM
1: Fighter 1 - Dueling
2: Warlock 1 – Great Old One, Hex
3: Warlock 2 – Misty Visions, Mask of Many Faces
4: Warlock 3 – Mirror Image, Tomelock (Find Familiar)
5: Cleric 1 – Tempest Cleric – Warth of the Storm, 2 more spell slots
6: Fighter 2 – Action Surge
7: Fighter 3 – Battle Master, Trip Attack, Goading Attack, Precision Attack
8: Fighter 4 – Sentinel

This build is a tough frontliner with plenty of utility out of combat. In combat, you are a Mirror-Imaged medium-armor wearing shield and quarterstaff build, casting Shillelagh (from Tomelock) and then Hex to fully spin up to speed in combat. You are locking down the chessboard with PAM and Sentinel (and Lucky in 2 more levels). Once Shillelagh and Hex are up, damage is 3(4.5+3.5+2+4) = 42/round, assuming all strikes hit.

Out of combat, you are an enchanter in the vein of a Jedi Consular: with at-will telepathy and spells like Invisibility, Detect Thoughts, Unseen Servant, Mage Hand, Guidance, Minor Illusion, Phantasmal Force, Dissonant Whispers, Misty Step, and Command, plus a familiar, you are quite un-Fighter-y before combat begins. The Cleric level gives double the spells available and a good range of utility.. all warlocks should do this!

Action economy is great with this build: damaging reactions with Wrath of the Storm, bonus actions either to spin up the combat buffs or deal extra enhanced quarterstaff damage with PAM, plus a familiar to grant advantage.

I hope you all can enjoy these, or improve them!

These seem like a lot of fun!

What’s close quarters fighting?

[Atomicwraith]

Ah, my typo: I meant to say Close Quarters Shooter Fighting Style; its a UA style that Fighters can pick up. This is fixed now.

[Klorox]

Oh man, I was looking forward to interacting with some deleted comments. 😕

[LudicSavant]

Oh man, I was looking forward to interacting with some deleted comments. 😕

You just gotta ignore that guy. He's been posting the same thread since 2015. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414050-Who-is-better-Optimized-Wizard-or-Optimized-Sorcerer-Yes-Sorcerer-is-a-GOD) So... yeah.

[FēlīxPersōnārum]

This is a great resource, thank you!

[Klorox]

You just gotta ignore that guy. He's been posting the same thread since 2015. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414050-Who-is-better-Optimized-Wizard-or-Optimized-Sorcerer-Yes-Sorcerer-is-a-GOD) So... yeah.

Under different names and everything. I didn’t realize what we were dealing with. LOL.

[Sparky McDibben]

Hey Ludic, any chance of seeing that Nuclear Wizard build you mentioned?

[Mercurias]

I love this thread, and I tend to be a little short on original ideas when it comes to game mechanics. This is why, when I post an 'original' build, it ends up being two of Ludic's builds crammed together in a blender.

Nature is Magical
Arcana Cleric 6 / Land (Coast) Druid 14

Race: V. Human (Feat: Warcaster)
Stats: 14 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Wis, Everything else to taste (I went 10 Str, 14 Dex, 15 Con, 10 Int, 16 Wis, 8 Cha).

Cantrips: Booming Blade, Create Bonfire, Fire Bolt, Guidance, Light, Shape Water, Shillelagh, Thorn Whip, Toll the Dead, Word of Radiance

ASI's: Max Wis, Warcaster (Racial Feat), Resilient (Con), Ritual Caster (Wizard)

Okay so where do we start here?

This is a build that essentially gives you as many day-to-day options as I can imagine for a caster.

In melee, you have access to Spirit Guardians, SCAG cantrips, and Shillelagh along with medium armor (which may need to be made from non-metallic substances, such as actual scales, caparace, chitin, or bone) and shield proficiency. You also have Spiritual Weapon and Bonus Action spells like Sanctuary and Healing Word in a pinch, so action economy is good out of the gate. For your OA, you’ve got Booming Blade to punish anyone leaving melee range with you, thanks to Warcaster.

You also have the Mirror Image spell. Mixing Mirror Image, Spirit Guardians, and Dodge Actions looks like a lot of fun.

As a healer, you have the Arcana Cleric's level 6 feature, Spell Breaker, which stops negative magical effects dead so long as you using a spell slot of the right level to heal the afflicted target. With spells like Regenerate, Mass Healing Word, and Healing Spirits, you'll be able to make use of it more than most, and having access to Healing Spirits on top of Cleric spells makes you unusually capable if the party needs someone to act as a main healer for a battle. Also worth noting, you can use Revivify. A Druid wouldn't be able to revive until 5th level spells, and then you roll the dice on your friend's race because the spell is Reincarnate.

If the party needs control spells, you have an enormous suite of Druid control spells, plus Spirit Guardians. There are honestly so many options that I'm going to end this here or else I'll hit the limit for post size.

If you need to move stealthily or spy, you have access to Wild Shape as well as Polymorph for shapeshifting into an innocuous mouse, rat, bird, etc. You can also use Rory's Telepathic Bond to communicate with your party even when Wild Shaped, which is nice. In fact, Rory's Telepathic Bond would be a great thing to have on any scout for instant communication, and you can cast it as a ritual.

You've also got Wizard Ritual Magic, for all of your Tiny Hutting, Magic Detecting, Familiar Finding, and Phantom Steeding needs.

Minions? You have Awaken to give yourself an intelligent animal best friend, you have a Familiar, you can raise the dead, and you can summon loads of critters via Druid spells.

And you can swap out your entire spell list on a long rest, except for your overly large pile of Cantrips, which include solid melee, ranged, and spell save options as well as some nice utility, so you're probably fine with them as they are.

Frankly, I can't find a wrong way to level this one up. No matter what class you pick, you seem to get something good at every level just because there's so much going on. I would personally get a level of Druid, then four in Cleric, then four in Druid, the last Cleric level, and then Druid all the way. Your mileage, and opinion, may of course certainly vary.

It's definitely a magical-skill-monkey sort of build rather than a full-damage type. The roleplay would be interesting, though. Maybe it could be the daughter of a famous Wizarding family who found herself drawn to Druiding Circles?

Notes:
-If you roll for stats and luck out enough for an extra feat, Lucky and Alert could be nice choices.
-I chose Fire Bolt and Booming Blade for the Arcana Cleric cantrips for the sake of versatility, but Green Flame Blade And Minor Illusion are also good choices.
-Druidcraft is a criminally under-loved cantrip. Its a good alternative if you really want a different Druid cantrip.
-Good gods I can think of for this build would be Mystra or Selûne, but others could have better.

[Evaar]

Nature is Magical
Arcana Cleric 6 / Land (Coast) Druid 14

Race: V. Human (Feat: Warcaster)
Stats: 14 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Wis, Everything else to taste (I went 10 Str, 14 Dex, 15 Con, 10 Int, 16 Wis, 8.

If this build could be made to work with a Wood Elf, Deep Sashelas would be a perfect god for it. Elven deity of oceans, wisdom, and magic. I don’t know how well that works, you might not be able to keep one of those feats.

You could always be a human child of a human and half elf and connect it that way. Even if you didn’t get the blood, you have the history.

[LudicSavant]

Hey Ludic, any chance of seeing that Nuclear Wizard build you mentioned?

Sure, I'll do that one next.

[Sparky McDibben]

Thanks, Ludic!

[Foff]

These are really nice and entertaining to read, thank you!

Care to help me with a build?
I'm thinking about a tank with the options for good damage and decent control. I'm about to start a new campaign/long adventure and while teorically the other three charactes are going to be a Cleric tank, a Rogue glass cannon (not sure) and a Wizard controller, they are all somewhat newbie-ish. So I'd like something to plug possibile holes.

Sorcadin, any combination of subclasses/oaths will work wonders and adapt to your background story...
Pal 2 Sorc X for more damage and controlling options
Pal 6 Sorc X for better tanking and survivability

[Mercurias]

Sorcadin, any combination of subclasses/oaths will work wonders and adapt to your background story...
Pal 2 Sorc X for more damage and controlling options
Pal 6 Sorc X for better tanking and survivability

As an alternative, you might like the Celestial Tomelock in the first post of this thread. It has solid defense while letting the Cleric shine as the tank, enough party face skills to handle sweet talking, plenty of control/support, solid damage, a bonus action heal to help the Cleric out, bonus temp HP for everyone on a short/long rest, and can even get Thieves tools to help out the Rogue with the right background.

[1Pirate]

Wow! Some really cool builds!

I was looking at the paladin build since it's mostly core and I'm thinking of making one for AL. I was wondering what stats it uses though, because I couldn't figure out how it gets to 20 Cha. I get dropping strength in favor of a magic item, but it still takes 2 ASIs for a VHuman to get 20 Cha using point buy(and even rolling it still takes at least one) and it's got 4 feats listed in the build.

[Mercurias]

You could dip a level of Hexblade Warlock and use the level 1 feature to make Charisma your stat for attacking and damage with weapons.

[Lyracian]

but it still takes 2 ASIs for a VHuman to get 20 Cha using point buy(and even rolling it still takes at least one) and it's got 4 feats listed in the build.
4 Feats and 2 stat boosts is exactly what the Human gets by Level 19.

L01: Human - PAM
L04: +Chr
L08: Great Weapon Master
L12: +Chr
L16: Mounted Combatant
L19: Inspiring Leader

Starts with Str and Chr at 16 and not much else or have an even lower strength and rely on magic items to boost.

[1Pirate]

Ah, got it. I miscounted the ASIs. Still curious what the starting array would be(no dip).

[LudicSavant]

Still curious what the starting array would be(no dip).

Str 16 / Cha 16 / Con 14 / other stats to taste. Unless you were expecting Str to be replaced sooner rather than later.

[1Pirate]

Str 16 / Cha 16 / Con 14 / other stats to taste. Unless you were expecting Str to be replaced sooner rather than later.

Thanks for that!

[Klorox]

I love this thread, and I tend to be a little short on original ideas when it comes to game mechanics. This is why, when I post an 'original' build, it ends up being two of Ludic's builds crammed together in a blender.

Nature is Magical
Arcana Cleric 6 / Land (Coast) Druid 14

Race: V. Human (Feat: Warcaster)
Stats: 14 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Wis, Everything else to taste (I went 10 Str, 14 Dex, 15 Con, 10 Int, 16 Wis, 8 Cha).

Cantrips: Booming Blade, Create Bonfire, Fire Bolt, Guidance, Light, Shape Water, Shillelagh, Thorn Whip, Toll the Dead, Word of Radiance

ASI's: Max Wis, Warcaster (Racial Feat), Resilient (Con), Ritual Caster (Wizard)

Okay so where do we start here?

This is a build that essentially gives you as many day-to-day options as I can imagine for a caster.

In melee, you have access to Spirit Guardians, SCAG cantrips, and Shillelagh along with medium armor (which may need to be made from non-metallic substances, such as actual scales, caparace, chitin, or bone) and shield proficiency. You also have Spiritual Weapon and Bonus Action spells like Sanctuary and Healing Word in a pinch, so action economy is good out of the gate. For your OA, you’ve got Booming Blade to punish anyone leaving melee range with you, thanks to Warcaster.

You also have the Mirror Image spell. Mixing Mirror Image, Spirit Guardians, and Dodge Actions looks like a lot of fun.

As a healer, you have the Arcana Cleric's level 6 feature, Spell Breaker, which stops negative magical effects dead so long as you using a spell slot of the right level to heal the afflicted target. With spells like Regenerate, Mass Healing Word, and Healing Spirits, you'll be able to make use of it more than most, and having access to Healing Spirits on top of Cleric spells makes you unusually capable if the party needs someone to act as a main healer for a battle. Also worth noting, you can use Revivify. A Druid wouldn't be able to revive until 5th level spells, and then you roll the dice on your friend's race because the spell is Reincarnate.

If the party needs control spells, you have an enormous suite of Druid control spells, plus Spirit Guardians. There are honestly so many options that I'm going to end this here or else I'll hit the limit for post size.

If you need to move stealthily or spy, you have access to Wild Shape as well as Polymorph for shapeshifting into an innocuous mouse, rat, bird, etc. You can also use Rory's Telepathic Bond to communicate with your party even when Wild Shaped, which is nice. In fact, Rory's Telepathic Bond would be a great thing to have on any scout for instant communication, and you can cast it as a ritual.

You've also got Wizard Ritual Magic, for all of your Tiny Hutting, Magic Detecting, Familiar Finding, and Phantom Steeding needs.

Minions? You have Awaken to give yourself an intelligent animal best friend, you have a Familiar, you can raise the dead, and you can summon loads of critters via Druid spells.

And you can swap out your entire spell list on a long rest, except for your overly large pile of Cantrips, which include solid melee, ranged, and spell save options as well as some nice utility, so you're probably fine with them as they are.

Frankly, I can't find a wrong way to level this one up. No matter what class you pick, you seem to get something good at every level just because there's so much going on. I would personally get a level of Druid, then four in Cleric, then four in Druid, the last Cleric level, and then Druid all the way. Your mileage, and opinion, may of course certainly vary.

It's definitely a magical-skill-monkey sort of build rather than a full-damage type. The roleplay would be interesting, though. Maybe it could be the daughter of a famous Wizarding family who found herself drawn to Druiding Circles?

Notes:
-If you roll for stats and luck out enough for an extra feat, Lucky and Alert could be nice choices.
-I chose Fire Bolt and Booming Blade for the Arcana Cleric cantrips for the sake of versatility, but Green Flame Blade And Minor Illusion are also good choices.
-Druidcraft is a criminally under-loved cantrip. Its a good alternative if you really want a different Druid cantrip.
-Good gods I can think of for this build would be Mystra or Selûne, but others could have better.

I love this idea!

How would you break down the levels?

[Mercurias]

I love this idea!

How would you break down the levels?

I would probably do it thusly:
1: Druid
2-5: Arcana Cleric (+2 Wis at level 5)
6-8: Druid, choosing Circle of the Land (Coast) at level 6 and +2 Wis at level 8.
9-10: Cleric, which finishes its levels up and unlocks Spirit Guardians/Spellbreaker.
12+: All Druid, with Ritual Caster (Wizard) and Resilient (Con) Chosen to taste at 15 and 19. Both are desirable. I would personally get Ritual Caster first and rely on Warcaster for help with Con saves for concentration, but your mileage may vary.

Early on, the build is primarily a support/control caster in Medium Armor, with spells like Faerie Fire, Entangle, Command, Spiritual Weapon, and Goodberry that help maximize the return on your spell slots.

Cantrip damage is solid at all ranges, with Booming Blade being an excellent OA (so long as Shillelagh’s effect is up) and melee damage option, Fire Bolt standing as a nice long-ranged attack cantrip, Bonfire acting as a resourceless concentration spell, Toll the Dead working as a nice Wis D/C cantrip, and Thorn Whip serving to drag enemies into hazards like Entangle (or your Barbarian friend with the Greataxe whose turn is just after yours).

Approaching mid-level, you unlock Wildshape for stealth and recon. Heck, turn into a little purse-dog to help your Bard disguise herself as a society girl, too. I don’t judge. You’ll also begin get more use out of your Druid side in general, including access to Misty Step and Mirror Image from your Circle. You’ll also start being able to recover spell slots on a short rest here. You won’t recover as much as a single-class Land Druid, but every bit helps.

Levels 9 and 10 are very nice. You finally get Spirit Guardians and Revivify. You also become a clutch battle dispeller, which is both sort of a niche feature and also a very powerful one when you end up needing it.

11+ brings further improvement to Wildshape, additional short rest Spell Slot recovery, Resilient (Con), Ritual Caster (Wizard), higher cantrip damage, and an ever-expanding spell list. While your spell options stop for Druid at 7th level, you have so very, very many things to upcast that using those 8th and 9th level spell slots won’t feel like a waste so much as ridiculously overcharging one spell. Who doesn’t want to at least TRY casting Spirit Guardians with a 9th level slot?

If you’d prefer an Elf or Half-Elf, I would probably leave out Resilient (Con) in favor of Warcaster.

[Atomicwraith]

The Advokist Tomb Raider

<EDIT: I misread the way GGtR guild spells are utilized; this post is now edited to reflect the correct interpretation. It's still cool, but takes a few more levels to get there.>

The gist of this build is to be an int-based tank who uses Spiritual Guardians, dual attacks and great defenses to survive in the middle of melee. Tons of utility and flavor as a technology-facilitated chaneller of ghost powers. You get to be smart and perceptive, but in power armor.

Choose Veldeken as a race, Orzhov as background, and point-buy these stats: 8/12/14/16/16/8. Take 3 levels of Artificer (Battle Smith), then a level of Forge Cleric, then 2 in Wizard (War), then 6 more in Artificer. So by character level 12 you are a level 9 caster with 4/3/3/1 spell slots, 11 cantrips, access to scads of first level spells, and Artificer/Orzhov list of useful level 2 and 3 spells including Spirit Guardians, and 2 pets (Iron Defender and Familiar). You are:

Well-nigh Invulnerable
• AC 22 (plate + shield, +1 from Blessing of the Forge, +1 from Enchanted Armor)
• Arcane deflection (mini-shield on demand, +2 AC,+4 to saves, and the downside of casting only cantrips next round does not bother you, as you’re mostly melee in combat anyways)
• Veldeken Disposition (advantage on int/wis/cha saves)
• Warcaster (advantage on concentration saves)
• 4 spell slots mostly dedicated to Shield and Absorb Elements

Melee Buzzsaw of Death
• Spirit Guardians up with Warcaster (3d8 or 4d8, wis save, 15’, speed halved)
• Longsword +1 (Enhanced Weapon): +7 to hit, 2x(1d10+4) -- uses Int as the modifier
• +5-8 Initiative (1 from dex, 3 from War Wizard) +1d4 from Guidance
• Iron Defender (Defensive Pounce gives disadvantage to an enemy for a reaction, Bite on bonus action)
• Advantage on 1 attack/round from Familiar (owl)
• Toll the Dead and Hand of Radiance if needed
• Bestow Curse and Branding Smite for special situations
• Warcaster + Booming Blade for anyone who runs

Tomb Raider
• Thieves Tools +9-12 (Veldeken Tireless Precision, Artificer Tools Expertise, Guidance)
• Investigation +8-11 (Veldeken Tireless Precision, Guidance)
• Perception +7
• Familiar scouting
• Dancing Lights, Mage Hand, Guiding Hand for exploration

Ghost Powers
With the Orzhov background, this build is working for the undead, and thus derives a lot of ghost-themed utility powers, including:

• Identify, Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages, Silent Image, Disguise Self, Speak with Dead, Zone of Truth, Aid, Rope Trick, Mending, Revivify, various minor heals (Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Iron Defender’s Repair)

Theme
I love the idea of a smart, perceptive guy who nonetheless is suited up in heavy tech armor, and derives powers either from tech, or from ghostly portals that can be summoned. Want to bring your familiar into the world? A ghostly white portal opens in space and your owl spirit flies out. Want to use Bestow Curse? Your reach out, a white portal appears just above your wrist, and a spectral ghost arm reaches out to touch the enemy and deliver the curse. Rope trick, Zone of Truth… its all facilitated by your tech-mediated access to a spirit world beyond.

[8wGremlin]

I think you are mistaken.

You can't cast Spiritual Guardians none of you casting classes are capable of casting 3rd level spells.
yes you have the slots, but you don't get the guild spells until you learn that level of spell.
You have a lot of 1st level spells that can be upcast to 3rd level.

[Atomicwraith]

Ah, but I think this build CAN cast a 3rd level spell, despite that each of the 3 caster classes (artificer, wizard, cleric) can only cast 1st level spells.

When multiclassed, we use the multiclassing spell table, right? Which for a level 1 cleric (1 caster level)/ level 2 wizard (2 caster levels)/ level 5 artificer (3 caster levels, as uniquely they round up) equals 6 caster levels, or 4/3/3 slots. The Orzhov spells are simply added to caster spellbooks (/etc)--presumably when the relevant caster level has been attained, though RAW they just seem to appear at character creation, waiting to be unlocked by casting ability-- so the race is actually to unlock a combined caster level by any method, not to get a full caster to level 5.

The quote from GGtR is "For you, the relevant spells on the Orzhov Guild Spells table are added to the spell list of your spellcasting class" Nothing about needing to be able to cast a level 3 spell in those classes. The spell list of a 4/3/3 caster who only knows first level spells is pretty self-defeating... until these guild spells come along to save the day.

What this build is saying is that it values caster "goodies" (Arcane Deflection, Blessing of the Forge, Iron Defender) more than caster spells, which I admit is unusual, but the point is to survive in the middle of the maelstrom as a gish, not to sling top level spells.

(that said, what to do after level 8? Probably advance in wizard...)

[Cyclone_Knight]

Ah, but I think this build CAN cast a 3rd level spell, despite that each of the 3 caster classes (artificer, wizard, cleric) can only cast 1st level spells.

When multiclassed, we use the multiclassing spell table, right? Which for a level 1 cleric (1 caster level)/ level 2 wizard (2 caster levels)/ level 5 artificer (3 caster levels, as uniquely they round up) equals 6 caster levels, or 4/3/3 slots. The Orzhov spells are simply added to caster spellbooks (/etc)--presumably when the relevant caster level has been attained, though RAW they just seem to appear at character creation, waiting to be unlocked by casting ability-- so the race is actually to unlock a combined caster level by any method, not to get a full caster to level 5.

The quote from GGtR is "For you, the relevant spells on the Orzhov Guild Spells table are added to the spell list of your spellcasting class" Nothing about needing to be able to cast a level 3 spell in those classes. The spell list of a 4/3/3 caster who only knows first level spells is pretty self-defeating... until these guild spells come along to save the day.

What this build is saying is that it values caster "goodies" (Arcane Deflection, Blessing of the Forge, Iron Defender) more than caster spells, which I admit is unusual, but the point is to survive in the middle of the maelstrom as a gish, not to sling top level spells.

(that said, what to do after level 8? Probably advance in wizard...)

Incorrect. You use the multiclassing spell table for determining what spell slots you have access to, but you only count the levels in the specific classes for determining what spells you actually know or can prepare, including -- per the example given in the PHB -- what level those spells are allowed to be. Heavily multiclassed characters often wind up with spell slots of higher level than they actually can know or prepare spells for; they can only use it for upcasting (or smiting, if they're a paladin).

The added spells from the GGtR are added to the spell lists of the class, not your known spells for the class.


Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two fo which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells.

[Evaar]

Same reason a Wizard 1/Cleric 19 doesn’t get to cast Wish.

[Atomicwraith]

You know, Cyclone_Knight and 8wGremlin… you are totally correct. I don’t know how I misread that; the GGtR text around the guild spells is slightly more vague than the PHB… but somehow I was thinking these spells were added to *my* list, not merely the class list. Dang. So this build has to go to level 12 to get the benefits I describe, not 8. Meh. Well I’ve got a caster-only version variant that I shall share one of these days.

Thanks for the correction; I’ll edit my earlier post.

[LudicSavant]

Next build will probably be one of the following:

*snip*

- the Cha/Int blaster Wizard build I'm currently playing in a long-term campaign (running from tier 1-4). Basically my take on the so-called "Nuclear Wizard" build which can potentially out-blast Sorlocks, come online faster, and retain all the versatility of being a Wizard. And doesn't require Coffeelocking or anything of that sort. The one I'm playing right now is an Asmodeus Tiefling, but the optimized version would probably be something else, like Yuan-Ti (for whom the Cha/Int typing is actually what you want for a change).


I'd love to see your take on the Nuclear Wizard


Hey Ludic, any chance of seeing that Nuclear Wizard build you mentioned?



Blaster Caster sounds interesting as does Samurai. Would be good if you added a variant/notes for those of us who only play PHB races.

Alright, let's build a Nuclear Wizard!

At Lyracian's request, I'll be providing multiple versions using different races.

Anyways, this is a strong one, so be aware of what level of optimization your group's comfortable with. You can afford to tone it down a bit and still have a highly competent character.

What's a Nuclear Wizard?
To my knowledge the term “nuclear wizard” was coined here (https://tinyurl.com/y2ldyoof) as a name for builds that take advantage of the synergy between Empowered Evocation and Hexblade’s Curse, which (among other things) transforms the humble Magic Missile into one of the best-scaling single target damage options in the game.

As good as a NW's Magic Missile is, a well-played high level Evoker doesn’t really just spend their entire turn casting one spell and doing nothing else (which is basically what happens in the Reddit post, but not what we're going to do here). Like any high level Wizard, their strength is their versatility and action economy. And Evokers have a great kit already. (https://tinyurl.com/y33ut2wy)

Build 9: The Nuclear Wizard
https://i.postimg.cc/gk8PhXby/tumblr-ngiguq-Fq8-R1qz7u3no1-500.jpg
“I cast Magic Missile”

Hexblade 1 / Evoker 17 / Fighter 2
Race: Yuan-Ti (alternatively, anything listed in the "Nuclear Races" section below)
Stats (Point Buy): 16 Int / 14 Con / 14 Dex / 14 Cha
ASIs: Max Int, Resilient (Con), Alert
Fighting Style: Defense
Sample Cantrips: Create Bonfire, Toll the Dead, Fire Bolt, Minor Illusion, Control Flames, Lightning Lure, Frostbite

Optional stuff:
If you want a GGtR background: Orzhov (replace a cantrip with Guidance and take Spirit Guardians)
Not-too-rare gear to keep an eye out for: A mere Uncommon, attunement-free Wand of Magic Missile becomes pretty ridiculous in a Hexblade/Evoker's hands. If they're available, you basically want as many as you can get. Anything that will increase your AC/saves is great, too.

The End of the Path of Explosions: Silly Max Level Nova Shenanigans
This is a demonstration of why it's called the Nuclear Wizard. You can just sort of keep stacking damage about as high as you want, as long as you're willing to grind up all your resources and unleash it in one catastrophic explosion. Time to make Megumin proud. (https://tinyurl.com/jh2x4uj)


The first thing you've got is Magic Missile, which deals 1d4+1+5(Empowered Evocation)+6(Hexblade's Curse) guaranteed damage per bolt (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/557823175581769729). So for example in a 9th level slot it'd do 11d4+132 (159.5) unmissable damage, piercing Legendary Resistance, Magic Resistance, AC, saves, pretty much any conventional defenses. Even Shield can just get Counterspelled. Or just overwhelmed with the sheer amount of effects you put out, because you see...

We're not done. We can Action Surge and use another one with an L8 slot, for 145 guaranteed damage (now up to 304.5). And then your Simulacrum can do it, getting you to 609 unmissable damage. That's already enough to one-shot an Ancient Red Dragon through all their defenses, and we can easily push our damage even further. Everything beyond this point is frankly overkill. So let's talk about overkill.

Both you and your Simulacrum can be concentrating on an Overchanneled DoT (like upcast Spirit Guardians from Orzhov). If Hexblade's Curse was used on a previous turn, you still have your bonus action, which can be, say, a charge of Crown of Stars firing off for 4d12+11. And then all of your minions act... your familiar, simulacrum's familiar, Wished-up Greater Steed, animated dead, whatever. If you had a chance to cast a pair of Otiluke's Freezing Spheres (1 from you, 1 from your simulacrum) before the fight, they can throw them for another 16d6+22 AoE/save for half damage each. And both you and your Simulacrum can pop Contingency for 2 more 5th level spells for your choice.

And you can still have any of your non-concentration buffs up, like See Invisibility, Armor of Agathys, Fire Shield, or whatever. So on the slim chance that anyone survives and dares to hit you, they'd take all that and a Hellish Rebuke for their trouble.

You can similarly set yourself up for AoE annihilation instead of single target, switching out the 4 Magic Missiles for 2 Meteor Swarms and 2 upcast AoEs of choice (while things like Spirit Guardians and Freezing Sphere are already AoE). Or abuse Prismatic Wall.

If you want even more single target damage, you can use Wish for Hallow:Vulnerability to Force with your Action, then Action Surge for a Magic Missile, and then have your Simulacrum throw two Magic Missiles, for a total of ((145+145+159.5)*2) or 899 average damage if they fail their save against Hallow. And then another 128 if you both can hit with an Overchanneled Bigby's Hand (which are also Force damage, so you'd get 4*8*2*2). And then potentially add Freezing Spheres and Crown of Stars and so forth.

Basically, as long as you're willing to invest the resources and a little set up, you can do a nearly arbitrary amount of damage, pushing well into 4 digits. And it doesn't even take setup for the "one-shot an Ancient Red Dragon" part. In order to have a chance to survive, your foe needs to have very specific counters (like Subtle Shield, pre-cast Globe of Invulnerability, or Contingency:GTFO), the ability to cheat death (like Clone), or go first in the game of rocket launcher tag and hope that when the dust clears, you can't reply.

Mind, this is the extreme case, rapidly burning through your level 20 resources. However, even if you use a much more resource efficient combo you're still doing some real damage. For example, just a 5th level HC/EE Magic Missile alone is 101.5 guaranteed damage, and is only a fraction of your available action economy. You've got more than enough resources to do a wide variety of powerful combos throughout the day.

Note that all those crazy action economy shenanigans? Sorcerers don't get any of those spells on their list. Freezing Sphere, Contingency, Simulacrum, Wall of Force, you name it. All the big action economy spells are on the Wizard list. They need to use Wish to get even limited access to any of this, and a Sorcerer's Wished-up Simulacrum can't cast 9th level spells. (https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/1011380498944311297?lang=en) A Wizard has no such limitations.

Okay, so you get to annihilate the final encounter of the whole campaign with a Macross Missile Massacre (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxnC6jkJyEM). But every optimizer worth their salt already knows that high level Wizards are bananas. What about the rest of the game?

Well, turns out they actually scale quite smoothly throughout the game (albeit being rather more... sane prior to grabbing their highest level tools). Your role will be a versatile mix of control, utility, and blasting (both single target and AoE).

Progression
At level 1, you start as a Hexblade, and basically get to play gish for all of one level. You pick 2 cantrips that don't depend much on your Cha, and learn 2 spells which you'll have prepared forever. They will be Armor of Agathys and either Shield or Hellish Rebuke. I usually pick Shield.

(If you're wondering why you might consider Shield even though it's not a Warlock exclusive spell, it's because whatever you pick for your 2 Warlock spells will be prepared forever. Picking Shield is basically saying "I don't care much about the Warlock's spell list, and just want more space to prepare Wizard spells")

That Hexblade level's going to do a lot for you. Namely, it will make your AC comparable to a Dex Eldritch Knight, give you a regenerating spell slot for things like Shield/Absorb Elements, and give you Hexblade's Curse (allowing you to deal some serious damage 1/short rest, especially with multi-hitting spells). Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke both upcast well.

Many people reflexively think of Cha-based multiclasses when it comes to dipping Hexblade, but really, you only need 13 Cha to reap the benefits. None of the stuff we're getting here cares about your Charisma (except optionally Hellish Rebuke).

At level 2, you start to play more like you will for the rest of the game. You’re now a Wizard 1 / Hexblade 1. Compared to a regular Wizard, you’ll have 5 cantrips (instead of 3), 6 spells prepared (instead of 5), 6 spells per DMG standard adventuring day (instead of 4), and medium armor + shield + Shield for up to 19/24 AC (whenever you get your half-plate). And you’ll have Hexblade’s Curse 1/short rest (a mean boss-killer). And Poison Immunity / Magic Resistance from being a Yuan-Ti.

In other words, you’re considerably safer and have a good bit more resources to spread out over a day than a typical Wizard. Twice as many spells over a standard adventuring day if you assume they’re spending a slot on Mage Armor. More if you consider they’ll need to use Shield more often than you since they can be hit more often.

So, obviously you can do the basic God Wizard things like Fog Cloud or Silent Image or whatever, and they’re as good as ever. But you also can dish out some real damage, either with or without spell slots.

You should summon a familiar (owl is always a good choice for Flyby and a considerable 18 passive perception / 120 foot Darkvision) and keep some materials available to resummon them if necessary. You should also keep some rituals going whenever you can. It's not difficult to keep up an Unseen Servant or Floating Disk all day (since you can cast rituals while moving, and they last an hour). Use the Unseen Servant to carry a Control Flames bullseye lantern, vials of oil, ball bearings, healing potions, or the like.

Your bread and butter spell slotless combo is going to be setting down a Bonfire and using Toll the Dead (or some other good cantrip) + using your Familiar to give someone Advantage or use an object + having your Unseen Servant use oil or ball bearings or shine a Control Flames bullseye lantern or something. Used right this can really rack up, especially with a little help from teammates to help move people around (think a grappler, repelling blaster, thorn whipper, or slightly later a Pushing Attack Battle Master or Open Hand Monk or any of a ton of other things. And you can move enemies yourself with Lightning Lure or Thunderwave). Don’t forget that Create Bonfire can hit multiple squares (https://tinyurl.com/y2mqtyos), so at worst it’s just like a way better version of Acid Splash if you’re not using your Concentration for something else.

Your go-to slotted AoE will be Thunderwave, which you can use to knock people into hazards (like your own bonfire) on top of just doing some decent AoE damage. Your good AC (not to mention access to Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke) means you can afford to position more aggressively for this than a typical Wizard.

And when you really want to kill someone, you throw down Hexblade’s Curse and use Magic Missile for 3d4+9 (16.5) guaranteed damage. Plus having your Concentration effect running, and your Unseen Servant, and your Familiar.

How does that cursed Magic Missile stack up to the DPR of other low level characters? Well, it’s about the same average damage as a GWM/GWF greatsword Fighter using Action Surge against an AC 14 target. And that’s if you’re using Magic Missile and nothing else on your turn. But of course, there is more that can happen during a round. For example...

Your familiar giving Advantage to one attack of that same GWM Fighter (against that same AC14 target) contributes about 6 DPR. A burning oil square will do another 5 guaranteed every time someone enters or ends their turn there (which of course your allies can force). A Bonfire square will add 1d8+2 per proc (with a Dex save to negate). A decent grappler can easily make both of these proc twice per turn. Or you could have Armor of Agathys up and have someone take 5 damage for hitting that. And then Hellish Rebuke them for 2d10+2/save for half (average 10.3 DPR against a +0 Dex save). And all of these possibilities are being added on top of what was already comparable to a GWM/GWF greatsword Action Surge.

Not too shabby for a level 2 Wizard, eh? Incidentally, that combo will never stop being relevant (because Magic Missile is well worth upcasting on this build, and all of your cantrips will scale and improve with Evoker features).

Continuing your progression, the level 2 combo will never stop being relevant. Hexblade's Curse will scale with your proficiency, keeping the damage of everything up when you want to go nova on someone. Your cantrips will double in damage at 5, become Potent at 7 (don't underestimate the difference between save negates and save for half on your DPR. For example, against a foe with a +3 Wis save at level 7, Potent Toll the Dead will deal ~39% more DPR), and will scale in damage again at 11 (another die and Empowered Evocation). This, plus your Bonfire action economy and ever-expanding list of rituals, helps ensure that your resourceless output is always at least respectable.

Now, I'm not going to go over every single Wizard spell that you should use here (this is already a long enough post). I'm going to be focusing mostly on talking about Evocation spells, since that's what's changed the most from standard Wizard strategies.

For level 2 slots, your level 1 spells actually upcast pretty well. L2 Thunderwave matches the damage of Shatter (if not the range and area) while still knocking people back, and even a non-cursed L2 Magic Missile will out-DPR Scorching Ray against a target of AC14 or higher (and with curse MM is a good deal better). Turns out "just can't miss" really matters. The important blasting additions in L2 slots are the Concentration spells, like Flaming Sphere or Dragon's Breath. Cast it on a minion and watch 'em dish out a sculpted 3d6/save for half AoE every turn, with an element of your choice.

For level 3 slots, Fireball and Melf's Minute Meteors (or Spirit Guardians if you went Orzhov) are obvious choices for advancing your blasting career. And there's just a ton of great spells at this level... Sleet Storm, Hypnotic Pattern, Counterspell, Life Transference, etc. Phantom Steed is a particularly useful ritual to pick up.

If you're not averse to animating the dead, that becomes a potent action economy tool, essentially allowing you to convert downtime into minions.

For level 4 slots, Storm Sphere and Sickening Radiance are exceptional area denial spells since Sculpt Spells allows allies to walk through them safely (which means that enemies have to walk into the area if they want to engage them in melee. Or that allies can all surround them and get OAs if enemies try to leave. That sort of thing). Storm Sphere also upcasts decently well, since both the AoE and the bonus action scale (meaning that the damage can go up by 2d6 per slot level).

You also can grab Fire Shield, which you can combine with Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke to really make people regret engaging you in melee (though I usually just stand back unless allies need pressure taken off of them). And of course all the usual goodies like Polymorph and Evard's Tentacles and the like.

For level 5 slots, the highlights on the Evocation list are Wall of Stone, Cone of Cold, Wall of Force, Bigby's Hand, and (surprisingly) Dawn, which actually becomes a half decent spell now that allies can move through it. Wall of Stone also offers a unique advantage; it's an Evocation spell, so allies automatically make their Dex saves. And if a target makes its Dex save against Wall of Stone, they can use their Reaction to move up to their speed.

Animate Objects is also a noteworthy damage spell. Also, Bestow Curse upcasts well at this level (if cast with a level 5 slot, it lasts 8 hours and doesn't require Concentration).

When you hit level 11, you get Empowered Evocation, which means your Magic Missile upcasting really takes off (and with Hexblade's Curse will generally be your biggest single target nova option from here on out), and that all of your other Evocation spells get a meaningful bump too.

Once you have this ability, it becomes important to remember exactly what counts as a single damage roll and what doesn't. Per PHB pg.196, spells like Fireball roll the damage die just once, and apply that roll to all targets (or in the unique case of Magic Missile, potentially the same target multiple times (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/557823175581769729)).

Side note: If you can get your hands on a merely Uncommon Wand of Magic Missiles (either by finding, buying, or crafting it), they are simply amazing for you with Empowered Evocation. They let you upcast, and they recharge daily. They're also non-attunement, so you could just have a bandolier of the things and spam upcast Magic Missiles to your heart's content.

For level 6 slots, you get some important action economy tools unique to the Wizard. Contingency allows you to "store" a 5th level spell slot for a week, and unleash it without an action using whatever trigger you want. Even before you consider the amazing action economy implications, this basically allows you to use a non-adventuring day to give you an extra spell slot on an adventuring day.

Otiluke's Freezing Sphere basically lets you hand a vastly larger radius Fireball to a minion to throw with their action instead of yours, meaning that as long as you have a couple rounds to prepare before kicking down the door you can set up some insane first round novas.

Wall of Ice is a multi-purpose hybrid spell. First it does damage comparable to a 5th level Fireball, then it creates an opaque wall, then if the wall's broken it creates a hazard (which is exploitable in all the usual ways that hazards are). Which, of course, your allies can walk through unharmed thanks to Sculpt Spells. So if the enemy walks through to get to the other side, you can just swap sides.

For level 7 slots, there are three important spells on the Evocation list: Forcecage, Crown of Stars, and Whirlwind.

Crown of Stars is a cornerstone of your blasting strategy from here on out. It basically does for you what Quicken Spell does for a Sorcerer, giving you 7x 4d12+5 shots as a bonus action, without eating your Concentration. For a Sorcerer to get 7 cantrip shots in with Quicken Spell, they'd need to spend a whopping 14 Sorcery points (which would take 2 7th level spell slots to create, or could be converted into 2 5th level spell slots). So I'd say this isn't a bad deal at all, resource-wise.

Whirlwind takes on a whole new luster thanks to Sculpt Spells. In addition to its usual uses, allies can move inside of it to get at the foes trapped within, or to protect themselves from enemies outside. The Whirlwind will automatically block projectiles by sucking them up, and anything hostile trying to close to melee will take damage and be Restrained. They get a save every turn to escape, but that just hurls them away through the air and lands them prone far away from the protected ally.

In addition to this, you get a truly game-changing spell unique to the Wizard list: Simulacrum. Just make sure to play safe with it, because it's relatively squishy. You can kind of think of Simulacrum as allowing you to buy spell slots and actions with gold pieces at an exchange rate that is a complete steal. It can even add another Overchannel. Speaking of which...

At level 15 you get Overchannel, an important ability to master. It maximizes all damage from a spell, including DoT effects, so things like Bigby's Hand, Storm Sphere, Wall of Fire, Fire Shield, Dawn, Sickening Radiance, Melf's Minute Meteors, or Spirit Guardians (if you took Orzhov, it's a Wizard spell for you) are particularly useful. Yet another reason that ongoing effects are a great choice is because you can potentially cast them out of combat, heal up the damage, and go into battle.

For instant, non-Concentration damage, Fireball, Cone of Cold, and Vitriolic Sphere are all solid choices. Great for vaporizing swarms. For single-target, a max proficiency Hexblade's Curse Magic Missile will only go up from 101.5 (average) to 112 damage with Overchannel, so I generally don't use it for that.


Some people are overly scared of doing any damage to themselves at all with this, but I think playing around the self-inflicted damage is an important aspect of Overchannel. So how can you manage it?

You get 1 Overchannel/day free. So does your Simulacrum. So potentially 2 freebies before you have to damage either yourself or your Simulacrum.
As mentioned above, it's possible to Overchannel something with a good duration out of combat and heal up. Good if your party's out of combat healing is efficient enough.
Sometimes, the self-damage will be less than the amount of consequences the party will avoid by shaving even one round off the lifespans of Team Monster at high levels. 10d12 is a lot, but plenty of high level encounters can do worse. For example, you might clear out an enormous horde of minions, or save downed allies who are about to be finished off. Just use your good judgment; this is for calculated clutch plays, not for spamming and hoping for the best.
Many spells do some level of guaranteed damage (because of save/half). If you can guaranteed end the combat by using Overchannel, then nobody's going to finish you off even if you drop yourself to zero.
The amount of damage you can take is limited by the 0hp gate. If you're already at like 5 hit points, then using Overchannel to finish a combat right now has less of an opportunity cost in healing resources, and can very well save your life.
Also, pay attention to the initiative order. For example, if your familiar goes right after you, you can Overchannel with 5 hit points left then have your familiar feed you a cheap Healing Potion to pop you back up, leaving you in about the same place you started (7+2d4 hit points probably wasn't going to get you an extra hit from that Ancient Dragon any more than 2+2d4 was). For another example, if your Life Cleric is about to use a big AoE heal on already-wounded party members anyways, you might want to get in on that.
A cautionary note: If you Overchannel with very low hit points and a scaled up self-damage, you risk death by massive damage. It's negligible-to-nothing at 10d12 (less than 0.1% if you have 5 hit points and 94 max hp, which is the minimum you'll have at level 15), but can get pretty high if you do it at 15d12 or more. Don't overdo it. While I don't agree with the "only ever use it 1/day" philosophy, it's still not for spamming.

For level 8 slots, Maddening Darkness is great to sculpt (bonus points if you get Mind Blanked and can stand in your own Maddening Darkness, or cover/uncover upcast Continual Flame items to see when you need to, or have anyone with Blind-Fighting or Devil's Sight or Alert on the team). So is the 120-foot-wide Sunburst. And you can also pick up stuff like Maze or Clone.

For level 9 slots, you get amazing choices like Wish, Prismatic Wall, Foresight, or Meteor Swarm.

For level 19 and 20 we can jump off into Fighter, now that we've got our precious 9th level spell slot. Taking the Defense fighting style will bump your AC, but that's not why we're here. Action Surge will serve as your devastating capstone, allowing you to cast a second 1 Action casting time spell in a round (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/23/action-surge-spell-2/) (and have your Simulacrum do so, too).



Variants/Notes

You want a bonus to Intelligence (so you can start with at least a 16), and at least 14 dexterity and 13 charisma (to qualify for Warlock), and to put whatever’s left over into Con.

One interesting caveat of this is that the “+2 Cha, +1 Int” typing, usually anti-synergistic, actually works out just fine for you… which means that Yuan-Ti is even more attractive than normal. Not that they need it, the race already is overloaded with powerful features; most notably immunity to a common damage type and status effect, and Advantage on all saves against spells and other magical effects.

However, many other races also fit in here well. Basically anything with a bonus to Intelligence and one of your secondary stats will do.

1) A plain old PHB tiefling can take the same statline as a Yuan-Ti and give you Fire Resistance and a couple extra spell slots. Having an upcast Hellish Rebuke at level 3 is nice.

2) You could also take the Winged Tiefling variant from SCAG for at-will flight.

3) Or any of the Tieflings from MToF, combined with the Feral variant from SCAG to make their statlines appropriate. Yes, you can combine those. (https://tinyurl.com/y5668qxt) So feel free to get whatever racial spells you want.

4) A Variant Human can take a starting array of 16 int / 14 Con / 14 Dex / 14 Cha if they take Res(Con) as their bonus feat. Then they can have a progression like Res(Con) > Max Int > Warcaster > Alert.

5) Half-Elf has enough stats to end up with an array of 16/14/14/14/10/8 or 16/15/14/14/8/8 (which will end up at 16/16 when you take Res(Con). They've also got a bunch of variants to choose from in SCAG.

6) Simic Hybrids and Warforged can get the desired statline, +1 AC, and some useful extra features.

7) A Gnome could start with the usual 16/14/14/14 array, or they could go 17/14/14/13. In exchange for that point of Charisma, they can get an Int-boosting half-feat when reaching level 4, like Observant, Keen Mind, or Fade Away (from XGtE).

8) Mark of Passage humans get Pass Without Trace and Freedom of Movement added to their list, pass move speed bonus, and a free Misty Step cast.


For cantrips I recommend Create Bonfire and any 6 of the following: Shape Water, Control Flames, Mold Earth, Prestidigitation, Lightning Lure, Fire Bolt, Toll the Dead, Minor Illusion, Frostbite, Thunderclap, or (if Orzhov) Guidance. At least 2 of those should be attack cantrips. Here's why I recommend those spells:

Create Bonfire This gives you a very worthwhile use for your Concentration for when you’re not dumping spell slots on it. Like a little at-will Cloud of Daggers. Works great with Potent Cantrip.

Create Bonfire isn’t a totally brainless spell; to really get the most out of it you’re going to have to use a little strategy. But for skilled parties, it can really pay off, giving you a source of repeating damage that leaves your Action free and saves your slots for when you really need them.

The most important things to remember are...
A) Five foot cubes can affect multiple squares on a grid (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/01/04/cloud-of-daggers-area-of-effect/), making this an effective AoE. In fact, besides the Concentration aspect, it’s just a straight up superior AoE to Acid Splash.
B) The damage can be activated once per turn, not once per round.
C) It ignites things, so you can just have an Unseen Servant or Familiar or the like pour out oil touching the area and have it get lit up immediately. This makes for even meaner combinations with grapplers and the like.
D) Players can surround a foe in a Create Bonfire square in such a formation that leaving the Create Bonfire square will provoke OAs from at least one of them.
E) It’ll deal some guaranteed damage with Potent Cantrip.

Mold Earth: This has occasionally been called the most underrated cantrip in the game. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nzKBxw9cPI) And while I wouldn't be counting on having the time and space to make 200 foot pitfalls before hitting bedrock, there is quite a lot you can do with it.

Like other “shape element” cantrips this scales with your creativity and resourcefulness, and distinctly lacks a Verbal component (so you can mess with things without revealing your position).

The first bullet point in the spell's description is the most important one. I’ve seen at least one person say “you can do that with a shovel!” I think that they lack a sense of scale.

The ability to instantaneously excavate a 5x5x5 foot cube’s worth of earth (125 cubic feet / ~4.6 cubic yards (https://tinyurl.com/y29268to) / about 5000 pounds of rather average dirt) in 6 seconds gives you an ability to create earthworks and excavations comparable to an army of people with shovels and entrenching tools. You can move 75,000 cubic feet of earth in an hour. That’s no joke. That’s like 250 commercial dump trucks worth of dirt. Literally tons upon tons upon tons of dirt. Mind, you might move less than that in practice (since you might have to move some clumps of dirt more than 5 feet for your engineering project of choice), but even a fraction of that amount is astronomically beyond the scope of what one can do with a shovel in that sort of time frame. This is an architect’s dream.

Some examples of uses (some may require some good old fashioned manual labor in addition to use of the spell, but the spell greatly expedites the process):

Signalling/communicating with allies silently (via the “make shapes appear” function)
Create pit traps.
Create earthworks fortifications, cover, etc.
Construct shelters surprisingly quickly.
Redirect a river or lava flow.
Burrow under a building.
Sink aforementioned building, or otherwise undermine its foundations. Sapper work in general.
Dig a grave instantly.
Dig up a grave instantly, for you grave robbers and necromancers out there.
Excavate buried ruins with one man instead of 100.
Block off dungeon passageways until you’re ready to go through them.
Reinforce an unstable structure.
Hide underground.
Activate pressure plates and other traps by sending mounds of earth ahead of you. Why sacrifice innocent summoned minions when you can just use sand?
Cleaning.


Some examples of possible mid-combat uses:

Create cover around a ranged character (think digging a foxhole surrounded by dirt mounds). ¾ cover is frequently better than the Dodge action, and this action can be taken on behalf of an ally. Sure, the wall’s only “loose earth” but it’s a considerable lot of it (~4.6 cubic yards of dirt plus ~4.6 cubic yards of hole. To get an idea of how enormous that is, here's just 2 cubic yards, with no foxhole (http://www.caputobrothers.com/images/Fudgie.jpg). So think almost 5 times that space to work with)
Fill in a hole, while someone is in it. Multiple characters with the cantrip can both make the hole and fill it in, potentially burying a foe alive in a single round. A DM will probably permit some some sort of reaction for that, though.
Block up Tucker’s Kobolds’ stupid tunnels. Possibly after throwing some smoke generating fire in there. See how they like it.
An enemy is standing near a cliff edge. You shape the earth they’re standing on into a steep slide.


The main thing holding this spell back is that it’s limited by environment. That said, loose earth isn’t exactly a particularly rare type of terrain; it applies to most outdoor environs, and in a medieval setting it would apply to quite a few indoor ones as well. And you always have the option of bringing some earth with you (such as for the pressure plates usage I suggested).

Side note: The term "loose earth" is rather ambiguous. After all "loose" is a relative term, some dirt is packed tighter than other dirt, and all dirt is loose compared to stone. Thankfully the intent has been clarified in Sage Advice; it basically refers to any dirt short of solid stone. Basically, if you can use a shovel on it, you can Mold it. (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/139836/what-counts-as-loose-earth-for-the-mold-earth-spell)

Shape Water: Like other “shape element” cantrips this scales with your creativity and resourcefulness, and distinctly lacks a Verbal component (so you can mess with things without revealing a hidden position).

This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?481560-Creative-Cantrips-Shape-Water) has a solid collection of ideas for uses.

Minor Illusion: An at-will, non-concentration illusion? Shut up and take my cantrip slot!

One interesting tidbit is that this (alongside all of the "shape element" cantrips) has no Verbal component, so you can mess with things without revealing a hidden position.

Fire Bolt: Toll the Dead is the standby damage cantrip, but what if you really want to target AC? For ranged Evocation cantrips that target AC, it's basically either this or Ray of Frost. This one has higher damage, twice the range, and can target objects. Though this doesn't work with Potent Cantrip, it's nice to have a 120 foot range option on hand.

Ray of Frost is a solid alternative if your team is set up to take advantage of the slows. Some people like to deliver Shocking Grasp through their familiars to get rid of reactions, too. Whichever you go for, I wouldn't take more than 1 AC-targeting cantrip.

Both of these, however, are subject to the disadvantages of ranged attack rolls. Enemies can give you Disadvantage by being in melee with you or being prone, or they could get cover from any number of sources (including your own melee front line). And they won't benefit from Potent Cantrip.

Control Flames: This is my personal favorite of the 3 "light" spells. Dancing Lights is limited by the fact that it requires precious Concentration, and the main trick I see advocated for it (lighting up enemies while keeping your allies obscured in darkness) can be accomplished by alternative means, like an Unseen Servant with a bullseye lantern, or lighting the room on fire (it's utility, I say!). Light can only produce 20ft bright/20 ft dim light, and can only create a single effect.

By contrast, Control Flames can produce 60 ft bright / 60 ft dim (equivalent brightness to the Daylight spell) with a hooded lantern, or 120 ft bright / 120 ft dim with a bullseye lantern. Even a lowly, expendable torch will provide 40/40 and can be dropped or tossed like a flare. Additionally, it can maintain up to 3 effects, rather than just one. And it doesn't take Concentration.

The main advantage of Light is that its a waterproof, completely expendable light that doesn't take up your hand. But I can make a permanent one of those with Continual Flame without using up a precious cantrip slot, and the one made by Continual Flame can illuminate magical darkness if upcast to level 3 or higher (since as a general rule, lights created with a slot of level 3 or higher illuminate magical Darkness).

In addition to its utility as a light spell, Control Flames can do some other things. Here's a few ideas:

No Verbal component means you can do things like animate some guardsmens' torches to make it appear like they're sputtering out naturally in a gust of wind, without revealing your Hidden position. Useful against enemies that don't have Darkvision.
It's an efficient fire extinguisher. Other cantrips can do this, but not with a similar level of efficiency. Given that spells like Fireball ignite everything flammable in the area, it can be handy to be able to clean up your own messes. (Note: While you can't extinguish magic fire, the fires created as collateral damage of magic are usually nonmagical)
You can change the color of flames, and nothing is stopping you from choosing a color that's not in the visible spectrum.
You can exacerbate the effect of things like Alchemist's Fire, oil flasks, or squares lit on fire by your various spells (because while you can't manipulate magical flame, you can manipulate the nonmagical fires that they might start as collateral damage).
Performance art. Minor Illusion is great, but it can't make something animated.


Lightning Lure: A d8 base damage that works with Potent Cantrip and Empowered Evocation, and can pull people into your Create Bonfire or other hazards. The downside is that it’s short range, and the damage only triggers if the enemy ends up within 5 feet of you (which sadly limits its synergy with Potent Cantrip).

Toll the Dead: The straight up highest damage single target cantrip prior to getting Empowered Evocation, and competitive even after that (e.g. 4d12 is more than 4d8+5). Very consistent output with Potent Cantrip. Also doesn't care about cover, people being in melee with you, etc.

Some people suffer from loss aversion bias and skip this because it doesn't work with Empowered Evocation. That would be a mistake, since Potent Toll the Dead will often outperform Empowered Fire Bolt.

Thunderclap: Gives you access to a 15-foot diameter aoe (e.g. extending 5 feet from each edge of your square) that’s compatible with Potent Cantrip and Empowered Evocation. Handy for clearing away mook swarms. The main disadvantage is that you need to be right up close.

Better than Sword Burst mostly because it’s compatible with Empowered Evocation. The difference in save types doesn't matter that much (unlike big guys, little mooks often have fairly similar Dex and Con saves, and these spells are for little mooks).

Frostbite: The main selling point of Frostbite is that it works with both Potent Cantrip and Empowered Evocation, and thus can be a solid pick for the last cantrip you learn (e.g. when you have both of those things). It still won't do as much damage as Toll the Dead (despite EE), but Toll the Dead doesn't give people Disadvantage.

It's better when allies all have an at least decent AC (because Disadvantage helps less if they just have a bad 14 AC vs enemies with +10 to hit anyways).

Prestidigitation: If you didn't have Prestidigitation, you would have to live like a martial peasant. You'd have to clean the blood off your robes. You'd have to go without chilling your drink to the perfect temperature. And you would have to endure the actual flavor of trail rations. And you couldn't pleasantly scent your scarf and pull it up over your nose when skulking through smelly old dungeons. It's undignified.



Alert is a great defensive and offensive feat for a Wizard. It'll prevent unseen foes from getting advantage (great with vision blocker spells), prevent them from surprising you (one of the deadlier scenarios in 5e), and allow you to go first, which often means weakening or killing enemies before they get to act.

Resilient (Con) will help you maintain Concentration and help you make saves against various nasty things.

If you have more space for feats due to rolling high on Intelligence, being a VHuman, or simply want to change things up, here's some more good choices:

Warcaster will improve your Concentration and allow you to apply pressure with OAs (something that's very doable when you have access to stuff like a good AC, Fire Shield, Armor of Agathys, Hellish Rebuke, and hazard spells).

Inspiring Leader scales primarily based on level, and with 13 Cha you qualify for it! If your party doesn't have a lot of sources of temporary hit points, this will provides more hit points than a Con bump for your whole team and your minions (your familiar might actually be able to survive a hit).

A +2 Con bump doesn't hurt. I generally prefer this to Tough since it will improve your Concentration and saving throw.

Lucky is a decent all-around feat for everyone, mostly for negating crits and retrying saving throws. It's something you take after you have all the other feats you really want in order to lower the chances of failing that crucial saving throw.

If you happen to have an odd Int score, you can bump it up with Observant or Keen Mind. The latter becomes attractive if your DM rules that you can memorize your spellbook so that you can re-scribe it if it's lost (and if your DM is the kind where that sort of thing is a real possibility). Flames of Phlegethos is good for this if you're a Tiefling.

Speaking of Tieflings, you might go Res(Con), end up with an odd Con score, and then bump it back up to even with Infernal Constitution. Now you've got 3 resistances, all to some of the most common damage types (Fire, Cold, Poison), and Advantage on saving throws against one of the more common status effects (Poisoned).


You can take the Hexblade level at pretty much any time in your progression, it doesn't need to be first. However, taking it first will give you +2 hit points and proficiency in Charisma saving throws, which is good because it evens out your saves. A defense is only as strong as its weakest link, after all.

You also can choose to leave out Fighter and instead take more levels in Wizard. Doing so will give you an extra ASI, an extra 6th level spell slot, and access to Spell Mastery, which allows you to pick 2 at-will spells. There are a lot of good options there.

What's good for Spell Mastery? Here's some ideas:
Big Sustained DPR: 3 vanilla GWM attacks (+6 to hit, 2d6+15 damage) against AC 19 is worth just 27.45 DPR. A single level 1 Magic Missile with Empowered Evocation is worth 25.5 DPR. Magic Missile + Dragon's Breath, shared by you and your Simulacrum, means 51 guaranteed MM damage plus 21/save for half AoE damage from your two familiars. That's a lot of at-will damage, and it still leaves your bonus action open for something like Crown of Stars or Hexblade's Curse, too.
Concentration-Free Defenses: Shield + Mirror's Image.
Concentration-Free Vision Control: See Invisibility or Pyrotechnics.

This loses out on the devastating nova potential of Action Surge, but honestly your novas are already really mean without it, and some tables will prefer you don't do quite that much damage in one shot :smalltongue:


Asmodeus kills a kitten familiar every time a Wizard player thinks the entirety of their resourceless contribution is just casting Fire Bolt. I’m here to tell you that you’ve got options. Good ones!

First, use rituals. Use them all the time. You can cast them while moving, so be casting one at every spare moment just in case there happens to be ten minutes between things happening. Many good rituals last for an hour with no Concentration (Phantom Steed, Unseen Servant, etc) so you can have multiple ones going at a time. Some might as well be permanent features (for example, Water Breathing lasts 24 hours and affects the entire party, which means you just cast it as part of your daily routine and everyone breathes water forever).

Things like opening a fight with 200 foot moves (Phantom Steed) or having an Unseen Servant laying out ball bearings as a bonus action or using a potion on an ally or even just shining a Control Flame bullseye lantern on things can really add up.

Second, use your familiar. Use them all the time. Have that owl flyby and use the Help action to boost the DPR of an ally (ideally someone like a Rogue or GWM user or something) and then get to a safe location. The difference between their normal DPR and advantage DPR? That’s part of your unselfish DPR contribution, and didn’t even take any of your actions. Familiars can also do things like pour out vials or oil or drop caltrops or carry Control Flames lanterns or whatever.

Also don’t forget that Mr. Owl has a very respectable passive perception of 18 (13+5 from keen sight and hearing) and 120 foot darkvision. And can fly around. And a bunch of other things. Basically, familiars are awesome. If they die just resummon them for a pittance.

Third, Create Bonfire is a great way to use your Concentration when you’re not using it on actual spells. It’s a solid AoE (remember, 5-foot cubes can affect multiple squares, see “how AoE spells work on a grid”) that deals damage comparable (or superior if it hits 2+ targets) to most other cantrips when it’s thrown out... but creates a persistent hazard that allows for recurrent damage, potentially once per turn (not once per round). If you’ve got a stunner or restrainer or a grappler or a repelling eldritch blaster or a Pushing Attack battlemaster or a Thorn Whipper or an Open Hand Monk or any of a ton of other things in your party, you can be proccing that over and over again (not to mention being able to do so with your own abilities, like Thunderwave or Lightning Lure). And you can have your familiar or unseen servant pour an oil vial on an area touching the space (which the bonfire will then ignite) for more damage every time they enter it or end their turn there. And once you get Potent Cantrip it’ll do damage even if the enemy saves. And there’s no risk to your own team from the hazard since you can just drop Concentration at any time, even off-turn.

You can even set it up before a fight begins to save on action economy (for example, setting it right near the dungeon door you’re about to kick in). You also can get some damage off enemies trying to leave the square (since ideally your teammates should be positioning for OAs).

Great cantrip that can really rack up damage with a little teamwork, while leaving your action free for #4.

Fourth, your other cantrips. For raw damage, there’s Toll the Dead (targeting Wis and benefiting from Potent Cantrip) or Fire Bolt (targeting AC and benefiting from Empowered Evocation, and allowing you to take advantage of your familiar’s Help if you don’t have anyone better to use it on at the moment). Lightning Lure can benefit from both PC and EE, and can pull people into your hazards (like Create Bonfire, burning oil, or slotted spells). Thunderclap gives you a 15-foot diameter AoE that benefits from PC and EE. Frostbite’s damage becomes decent with PC and EE and can give an opponent Disadvantage to attack. There’s also the creative cantrips, like creating cover with Minor Illusion or Mold Earth.

So now you combine all of these things simultaneously (and potentially more, I’m just giving you the short list here. Seriously the Wizard optimization rabbit hole goes deep). So you’ve got your unseen servant pouring out oil on your Bonfire square (which potentially hit multiple enemies when you first cast it), which then does (tier)d8/save for half (Potent Cantrip) and 5 guaranteed (oil) every time you can get someone to enter it or end their turn there. And you’ve got your familiar granting Advantage on an attack (contributing more DPR to the party). And you’re throwing out a Toll the Dead or a Frostbite for (tier)d6+5/save for half and giving the enemy Disadvantage. And you’ve got your archer on a phantom steed riding around. All at the same time.

And you haven’t even used a single spell slot yet.

Whew. Wizards have a lot to cover (I actually cut this down pretty considerably from my original draft, since it was too long). Anyways, hope you enjoy!

There's an awful lot of stuff in here and I'm not perfect, so please let me know if I messed anything up and I'll correct it posthaste :smallsmile:

[Corran]

Whew. Wizards have a lot to cover (I actually cut this down pretty considerably from my original draft, since it was too long). Anyways, hope you enjoy!

There's an awful lot of stuff in here and I'm not perfect, so please let me know if I messed anything up and I'll correct it posthaste :smallsmile:
While not evocation spells, see invisibility and true sight deserve a mention, since not being able to see the target is another one of the few things that can counter the magic missile nuke.

As a criticism, I think your seriously overestimate create bonfire. If anyone is to not pity using a spell slot for an effective concentration effect, that would be a wizard.

[Lyracian]

Alright, let's build a Nuclear Wizard!
At Lyracian's request, I'll be providing multiple versions using different races.
Thank you for thinking of me! I shall enjoy reading all of this tomorrow. Just off to bed and saw you had posted.

[LudicSavant]

Thank you for thinking of me! I shall enjoy reading all of this tomorrow. Just off to bed and saw you had posted.

NP! :smallsmile:


*snip*

Thanks for the feedback! I really like all of the "information wars" abilities like See Invisibility and True Seeing. Added a mention as suggested.

I do think you're underestimating Create Bonfire, however; that cantrip has seriously been paying my bills through multiple campaigns, especially over long adventuring days.


Note how well CB compares to the actual second level spell, Cloud of Daggers, at just level 7. It does 2d8 initial damage, and every time someone enters or ends turn in my Create Bonfire + oil square, they take 2d8 (save for half) +5 (oil, no save). So 14 damage / save for 9.5 damage. Cloud of Daggers simply does 4d4 (10) on each proc, and doesn't even do initial damage. It's a bit easier to proc (because of "starts turn there" instead of "ends turn there") but that's about it. And it's not like that damage can only hit once.

Seriously, I'll keep having situations like: Cast bonfire on two adjacent targets > Warlock knocks someone in with Repelling EB for a proc > grappler moves them out and back in for a proc > grappler prevents them from moving on their turn for a proc > people trying to get out of the bonfire take OAs from surrounding party, or use the Disengage action or use their single spell for the turn on Misty Step or something. At which point I've done 5 hits of bonfire and 3 hits of oil for 10d8/save for half (bonfire) +15 (oil, no miss chance) on the first round, possibly more if people take OAs trying to get out of dodge. And then I get my next turn, where something similar happens except my action is now free to add onto it. And of course if they leave we can often just knock 'em right back in.

The strength of Create Bonfire (and many other hazard spells, for that matter) is that it aggravates the impact of positioning and pressure abilities for you and the rest of the party. If your party understands that, you can just sit back and watch beautiful damage rack up. As long as you or anyone in your team can reliably proc it (and there are lots ways to do that), then it's superb value for a cantrip.

Incidentally, the example I just gave isn't even on the higher end of how much you can exploit Create Bonfire. For instance, stuff like this exists: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/8brsiw/scout_rogue_grapple_and_create_bonfire/. It's entirely possible for a single character to reliably and resourcelesly activate a Bonfire/oil square 3 times in a round (4 if you count the initial hit).

[Sparky McDibben]

What's DoT?

[LudicSavant]

What's DoT?

Damage over time. Stuff with a duration that deals damage, basically.

[Sparky McDibben]

Thanks; love these builds!!!

[Skylivedk]

@LudicSavant
Thank you! I like both your content and your way of conveying it. I look forward to see if you're going about it the same way I would! Before seeing it, I was thinking Hexblade 1 / Evocation Wizard X. Let me know if I can ever help you in some way and thank you again for your great work.

[Was from a PM before reading the thread when Ludic did me the favour of notifying me of nuclear going up]

- of course the Action Surge from Fighter was the cheese topping that I forgot about (I've yet to go 5e to that level range).

[Lyracian]

Build 1: Celestial Generalist
This is a jack of all trades build highlighting the versatility of the Celestial Warlock.

I have created this for an actual game. We roleled stats (mine are not great). Decided to go with Half-Elf and take Moderately Armoured at Level 4 since the +2 Chr is the same as an ASI.
Starting with 9/14/10/11/10/18.

The order you had the spells listed is somewhat confusing so I split it by level.

Spells Known
1st: Cure Wounds, Armor of Agathys, Hex, Hellish Rebuke
2nd: Misty Step
3rd: Hypnotic Pattern, Revivify, Counterspell, Thunder Step,
5th: Synaptic Static, Greater Restoration
Mystic Arcanum: Mass Suggestion

Were you just taking Thuder Step over Dimension Door due to the damage?

[Cyclone_Knight]

I thought Empowered Evocation only applies to one damage roll per spell casting; doesn’t magic missile roll separately for each missiles?

[Sparky McDibben]

I thought Empowered Evocation only applies to one damage roll per spell casting; doesn’t magic missile roll separately for each missiles?

Not by RAW:

"Beginning at 10th level, you can add your Intelligence modifier to the damage roll of any wizard evocation spell you cast."

[Evaar]

Not by RAW:

"Beginning at 10th level, you can add your Intelligence modifier to the damage roll of any wizard evocation spell you cast."

That wording wouldn't add damage to each missile if they were rolled separately. You'd add the intelligence modifier once to the spell and that would be it.

The key is that Magic Missiles aren't rolled separately. As Ludic linked in his post, on Twitter Crawford confirmed this.

"Yep. It's one damage roll, just like fireball, but that roll can damage the same target more than once."

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/557823175581769729

[Sparky McDibben]

This feels like one of those weird rules interactions that winds up with a very non-intuitive result. Thanks for breaking it down for me, but I think I would rule that Empowered Evocation would apply to all the damage rolls of evocation spells you attack with - like Scorching Ray would get +5 added to each of those rolls. That way a 2nd level spell scales up and remains relevant to an 11th level wizard.

[Cyclone_Knight]

Not by RAW:

"Beginning at 10th level, you can add your Intelligence modifier to the damage roll of any wizard evocation spell you cast."

Check the current official PHB errata. I don’t have enough posts to link it, but it specifies that “the damage roll” should be “one damage roll.”

Of course, if magic missile is only one damage roll that is rolled once and applied to each missile, the point is moot.

[Sparky McDibben]

Thanks Ludic! You're a godsend for those of us too busy to dream these builds up!

[LudicSavant]

Just for fun, we can get even more damage as a Nuclear Wizard:

Wish->Hallow to create an area of Vulnerability:Force, then proceed with the rest of the combo. This will boost the average damage of your 3 castings of Magic Missile to 899 nova DPR. Have your Overchanneled Concentration option be Bigby's Hand (which also does Force damage) for a total of 128 damage from both you and your Simulacrum, boosting you up to 1027 if they hit. Then potentially add on Freezing Spheres, Crown of Stars, etc as normal.

So yeah. There's your PHB+1, no-gear, over-1000-damage burst. *Shrug*


I have created this for an actual game. We roleled stats (mine are not great). Decided to go with Half-Elf and take Moderately Armoured at Level 4 since the +2 Chr is the same as an ASI.
Starting with 9/14/10/11/10/18.

The order you had the spells listed is somewhat confusing so I split it by level.

Spells Known
1st: Cure Wounds, Armor of Agathys, Hex, Hellish Rebuke
2nd: Misty Step
3rd: Hypnotic Pattern, Revivify, Counterspell, Thunder Step,
5th: Synaptic Static, Greater Restoration
Mystic Arcanum: Mass Suggestion

Were you just taking Thuder Step over Dimension Door due to the damage?

I like both Thunder Step and Dimension Door. Dimension Door has better range and infiltration/exploration capabilities. Thunder Step has damage/kiting. I say go for whichever you like.

Also worth noting, that spell list would be for level 12. You should probably be switching spells known in and out as you're leveling up.

[Lyracian]

Just for fun, we can get even more damage as a Nuclear Wizard:
This will boost the average damage of your 3 castings of Magic Missile to 899 nova DPR.
I talked to one of my GM's about Evocation Wizard and his rule was no only one missile gets the bonus not all of them. Having read the build I think my view would be to allow the damage to add to each target which is what happens with spells such as Fireball. Skipping the attack role makes MM a bit of an odd spell. Saying that MM is the same damage roll for each missile seems as crazy as saying Fireball is 1d6*8. I enjoyed reading all your information about Wizard. I am going to try using Unseen Servant with a flask of oil next time I am using Bonfire/Flaming Sphere.


Also worth noting, that spell list would be for level 12. You should probably be switching spells known in and out as you're leveling up.
I was not trying to get a list of spells to take in order just working out what the spells were. I know as soon as I get to level 5 I would be swapping out to get two Third Level spells and Revivify will depend on how rich the party is.

[Mercurias]

LudicSavant, would you mind your next writeup being that Soulknife (EK/War Magic Wiz) you mentioned before? The idea of that one really struck my fancy.

This Nuclear Wizard is an interesting Gish. I’m pretty sure my DMs would shoot me on the spot if I ever brought it to them, but I love the concept behind it for combat and utility casting.

[Sparky McDibben]

I second the soulknife request!!! These are great and I love them!

[Klorox]

@LudicSavant: what does that hexblade level really lend the Nuclear wizard build?

I get a little extra survivability early, but I can’t help but think you’re better off as a pure wizard.

Any hexblade spells key off of CHA, which will always be 14. Other than hex, you’re a level behind with your spells, aren’t you?

I’m not trying to instigate an argument here, I’m genuinely curious. TIA.

[Evaar]

@LudicSavant: what does that hexblade level really lend the Nuclear wizard build?

I get a little extra survivability early, but I can’t help but think you’re better off as a pure wizard.

Any hexblade spells key off of CHA, which will always be 14. Other than hex, you’re a level behind with your spells, aren’t you?

I’m not trying to instigate an argument here, I’m genuinely curious. TIA.

The build is almost entirely reliant on the extra damage from Hexblade’s Curse. Because the extra damage is keyed off your proficiency bonus, it continues to scale even though you only ever take the one level.

[LudicSavant]

@LudicSavant: what does that hexblade level really lend the Nuclear wizard build?
Quite a bit!

1) Hexblade's Curse synergizes exceptionally well with the Evoker's kit. It scales with proficiency, so it's the gift that just keeps on giving. It's a significant part of what allows you to do such massive single target damage when you need to.

2) It's not a little survivability early, it's a lot of survivability forever. 25 AC is already enough that even an Ancient White Dragon needs an 11 to hit you, and that's really the low end of your defenses by that level (just base AC + Shield). Not only does this protect your hit points, it also helps protect your Concentration (ya don't make a check if the enemy misses you).

3) It also makes your mental saving throws more even, which goes well with Magic Resistance and the like. To get an idea of the math involved, a -1 Cha save with Advantage (from Yuan-Ti Magic Resistance) still has a whopping 90.25% chance of getting Banished by a DC19 save, while a +8 Cha with Advantage has only a 25% chance and a +13 (from standing next to your local Paladin) has only a 6.25% chance. Incidentally, your good defenses make it safer to stand within 10 feet of the Paladin in the first place. Anywho, point is that I'd rather have three good saving throws than 1 really good, one good, and one terrible. A defense is only as strong as its weakest link, after all.

4) Extra spell slots / adventuring day and 2 extra cantrips known. Makes an especially noticeable difference in the early game, but never becomes irrelevant.

5) It's basically a non-issue that Hexblade spells key off of Cha. We only rarely use our actual Hexblade spells (because we can use Warlock slots for Wizard spells), and when we do, well, Armor of Agathys doesn't scale off Charisma anyways. Incidentally, this gives you some nasty retribution damage potential, because unlike a Sorcerer you have access to Fire Shield to stack on it (which in turn combos with things like Overchannel, Hexblade's Curse, Empowered Evocation, etc). You basically can't be killed by melee attacks before all of the melee attackers die when using this. Just one more tool for the ever-expanding Batman toolbelt.


I am going to try using Unseen Servant with a flask of oil next time I am using Bonfire/Flaming Sphere. Nice. It's really great as long as you have some consistent way of pushing people around and/or restricting their movement in the team. In the case of a current campaign I'm in, the main culprit of this is a character with Tavern Brawler.

[Amechra]

These builds are pretty sweet - it reminds me a bit of the good old days of 3e charop. Brings a tear to this old fogie's eye.

Something I want to bring up (which some kind soul might use to make something hilarious): Armor of Agathys and Arcane Ward have some crazy synergy with each-other. From how I read it, Arcane Ward takes damage before your temporary HP from Armor of Agathys, but Armor of Agathys still triggers (if you were hit by a melee attack, of course). I'm pretty sure there's a gimmicky front-line fighter that could use that.

[Evaar]

I'm intending to play something like the Celestial Warlock build in DotMM. I put my own variants on it that likely de-optimize it somewhat but make the flavor a little more compelling to me - primarily, I went Tiefling (Glasya) and started with odd scores in both Con and Cha with the intent to even them out by taking the Tiefling racial traits.

I'm sure the Variant Human version is more optimized, but the rest of the group is pretty new to 5e so I don't want to constantly have the spotlight. Primarily what I'm looking to do is be able to function effectively in whatever role we need at the time, since everyone else is still pretty timid and uncertain about what they should be doing during fights. I'm looking forward to it and will report back how it goes.

[ThatDuckGrant]

Looks like it’s been a while since anyone has added a build here, so I’ll give it a go.

This build focuses on a specific weapon I find extremely fun and eclectic, though difficult to optimize, and I’ve named the character based on the weapon.

The Shadow Whip

vHuman Hexblade 1, Shadow Sorcerer X
Abilities: 8, 14, 16, 8, 10, 16
ASIs: Spell Sniper (Booming Blade), Cha+4, War Caster, Con+4
Grab the Orzhov background from GGtR if you can. Adding Spirit Guardians to this makes things even more fun. I’m going to pretend you don’t have it though.

The whip is a tough weapon to master. It’s the only 1 handed weapon in the game with reach, but in exchange it only does 1d4 damage, which makes it 2 damage worse per hit than other martial 1 handed weapons. What does that mean? To be effective, we need to use fewer attacks, and hit harder with each one. That leaves us 4 options, each with some flaws.

Option 1: The Kensei Monk. This is a great option for those who want to use a whip. The Kensei get to replace the whip’s d4 with their martial arts die, which means at high levels you’ll be doing as much or more damage as a longsword. The only problem is that the kensei is still better off using that longsword until the MA die becomes a D8, which means your build isn’t exactly focused around the whip, or it’s taking a hit to do so.

Option 2: The Rogue. This is another fine option, as the difference between a rapier and a whip is less noticeable when you’re rolling 10d6 along with it. The problem here is that rogues aren’t proficient with whips, and most rogues are a bit squishy to be in combat. You can fix this with a level of fighter, but your DPR and versatility are a bit lower than the Shadow sorcerer. Still a great pick.

Option 3: The war or tempest cleric runs a whip build well, but they’re going to be MAD in doing so, and if you’re going to be MAD and have martial proficiency, you might as well use a Polearm.

Option 4: The Shadow Whip.

The goal here is to control the battlefield by twinning Booming Blade at reach. Shadow sorcerer allows us to effectively debuff our enemies while we do so. It also gets us around the most obvious downside of the vHuman: Lack of darkvision. You get it to 120 feet, as good as a Drow, and without the sunlight sensitivity.

Here is the beginning of the build progression with suggested combat tactics. Admittedly, you stop gaining features later on that really add to your DPR, but your ability to give permanent disadvantage on saves (like quickened hold monster) makes your DPR stupidly high without you needing to deal the damage yourself.

1. Shadow sorcerer 1: take GFB to go along with BB from Spell Sniper and whatever 3 non-combat cantrips you like. I like Friends to pair with disguise self (more on that later). Take Shield and Absorb Elements as your spells. You’ll need them.

2. Hexblade 1: Now you can use your whip! I also take EB here for a ranged option, and I think AoA and Hex (for social encounters) are my two favorite warlock spells. Hellish Rebuke is also a great option.

3. Sorcerer 2: Take Disguise Self. Nothing really exciting happens this level, but Disguise Self and Friends combine for one hell of a social play, and unless you have a bard or rogue in the party, you’ll double as the FoP.

4. Sorcerer 3: Twinned Spell is mandatory. It doubles your damage output pretty frequently, and at this level, will have you dealing almost as much damage on opponents turns as your own, because low level mooks tend not to have great range or reach, so they’ll be forced to move off of booming blade.

Your other metamagic is up to you. Quicken is the best, but spending 2 sorcery points is pretty brutal at this level. I would pick up subtle, as it will let you use your shield and still cast Shield, and also lets you subtlecast Friends in social situations.

You also get Darkness that you can see through at this level, which means your DM is about to start digging through the Monster manual for mooks with tremorsense or you’ll be making your 2 attacks with advantage. This saves you from needing to pick up greater invisibility in the long run. I take misty step as my other spell.

5. Sorcerer 4: ASI should be Charisma+2, and feel free to take whatever sorcerer spell you like. At this point I’m probably concentrating on Darkness, but Enlarge/reduce or Blur aren’t terrible options. I would take Mirror Image.

6. Sorcerer 5: Twinned Haste is a hallmark of any sorcerer build. It works for you too, though maybe better if you twin it on two allies than yourself. You don’t have to pick Haste though, something like Fear can be great for you, with all the OAs it might cause from your reach. Counterspell and Hypnotic Pattern are also great choices. You can make this build what you want at this point.

7. Sorcerer 6: This is the reason you’re a shadow sorcerer. You just got a better version of heightened spell for the same cost. This ability meshes particularly well with effects that immobilize a target, like confusion and hold monster/person. If you think you’ll be fighting any humanoids soon, take hold person here. Otherwise, Slow is a debilitating debuff that’s also a save-or-suck. Your four-legged friend will make sure at least one of them won’t make that save.

From this point on, you can get more creative with your choices. I generally think that Cha 20 is better than War Caster at 8, but you’ll have to decide if you’re getting enough OAs to change up the order. Additionally, I take wrote in Con as my last 2 ASIs because you’re a d6 hit die frontliner, but you can choose if you’d rather go another (perhaps more offensive) route.

Metamagic: I would take quicken at 10 and heightened at 17. You can then summon a hound, and upcast hold monster to give 2 enemies disadvantage on their saving throw for 6 sorcery points and a 6th level spell. That’s an encounter ender there.

Spells I like from here are generally save spells. Things like hold monster and disintegrate are spells that your wizard stays away from, but you turn them into your DM’s bane.

If this gets any traction maybe I’ll post a whole spell progression, but this post is long enough as is.

[Zeikin]

Option 4: The Shadow Whip.

The goal here is to control the battlefield by twinning Booming Blade at reach.


Both Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade require the target to be within the spells reach, which unfortunately is 5’.

I think exploring the whip is a great idea, i would probably go more the Paladin/Kensai route myself. Or Kensai/Battle Master.

[Trickery]

Both Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade require the target to be within the spells reach, which unfortunately is 5’.

I think exploring the whip is a great idea, i would probably go more the Paladin/Kensai route myself. Or Kensai/Battle Master.

That's what Spell Sniper is for. Spell sniper doubles the range of your spells and works as described with BB / GFB. It's an interesting build for sure.

I'm hesitant to suggest this but, if your DM allows, you can mix this build with the coffeelock to make a coffeelock shadow whip. You sacrifice spell progression to gain near-infinite castings of your lower level spells and all of the twinned and quickened BBs and GFBs you could want.

Coffeelock, for those who don't know, uses aspect of the moon, warlock short rest spell slots, and sorcerer's font of magic to turn warlock spell slots into sorcery points into sorcerer spell slots which last until you take a long rest. Aspect of the moon allows you to skip ever taking a long rest as long as your DM allows it and doesn't use the optional rule from Xanathar's that would give you exhaustion for skipping long rests whether you have aspect of the moon or not. You thus end up with an arbitrarily high number of stockpiled spell slots and perhaps the most contentious build in 5e history.

[Amechra]

I could see this working in a lower-optimization game:

Whippy the Wonder Goblin
Goblin Bard (Sword) 1/Monk (Kensei) 5/Bard (Sword) 4/Monk (Kensei) 10
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 15

ASIs:
5th: +1 Wis, +1 Cha
10th: +2 Dex
13th: +2 Dex
17th: +2 Cha

Fighting Style
Pick up Dueling at 8th level. It's a bit late, but every little bit helps (plus, it's not like two-weapon fighting will help you at all...)

You only graduate to whips at 4th level, sadly (Seriously, why don't Bards get proficiency in whips? My memories of 3e tripped me up there.)

But anyway, Blade Flourishes actually work pretty well with the Monk's whole combat schtick of being ultra mobile. If you need some space, whipping someone and sending them flying up to 13ft away works wonders. Plus, you can't waste your uses (or Deft Strikes), since you use them after you hit. Plus you've got a bit of utility spellcasting and can dump those good ol' Bardic Inspiration uses on an ally if they need the help.

---

And, for a better (i.e. less clunky) Kensei build, why don't we go savage?

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/97/ee/20/97ee20c1dbec8ceb6f343f91caa4b858.jpg
Lizardfolk Barbarian 1/Monk (Kensei) 5/Barbarian 1/Monk (Kensei) 13
Str 15, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 8

ASIs:
5th: Athlete (+1 Str, stand from prone with 5ft of movement, climbing uses full speed, can do standing jumps all the time)
10th: +2 Str
14th: +2 Str
18th: +2 Con

OK, here's the plan:
You make a shield with Cunning Artisan. And you use that shield.

Unarmored Defense? You got a better version from Barbarian, and even if you didn't? You start off with AC 13+Dex anyway thanks to Lizardfolk.
Martial Arts? Bite gives you a 1d6+str unarmed attack, so you don't need Martial Arts to keep up your damage for when you use Agile Parry to bump up your (pretty decent) AC.
Unarmored Movement? OK, this one hurts a little. But if you gotta go fast, you can just... drop the shield? It was free, after all. Plus, being able to hold your breath for 15 minutes and being able to swim eases the pain of not being able to walk on water.

You can still do all of your other favorite Monk things (you can't catch-and-return with Deflect Missiles, but that's about it). Plus, you've got some interesting extra synergy, like Reckless Attack + Patient Defense (or Flurry of Blows, if you really want to savage someone). And, if the going gets tough... there's always your 2/long Rage.

[Godrocks911]

Any Wood Elf Ranger 1-20, i am so lost in the sauce

[Daghoulish]

snip

I really like these. Also, in the barbarian/monk it says Barb1/Monk5/Barb1? Do you take another barb level or what? I would say the worst thing you lose from having a shield with that build is losing the ability to make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, which is a part of martial arts and lost when holding a shield.

[Zeikin]

That's what Spell Sniper is for. Spell sniper doubles the range of your spells and works as described with BB / GFB. It's an interesting build for sure.

I'm hesitant to suggest this but, if your DM allows, you can mix this build with the coffeelock to make a coffeelock shadow whip. You sacrifice spell progression to gain near-infinite castings of your lower level spells and all of the twinned and quickened BBs and GFBs you could want.

Coffeelock, for those who don't know, uses aspect of the moon, warlock short rest spell slots, and sorcerer's font of magic to turn warlock spell slots into sorcery points into sorcerer spell slots which last until you take a long rest. Aspect of the moon allows you to skip ever taking a long rest as long as your DM allows it and doesn't use the optional rule from Xanathar's that would give you exhaustion for skipping long rests whether you have aspect of the moon or not. You thus end up with an arbitrarily high number of stockpiled spell slots and perhaps the most contentious build in 5e history.

Spell Sniper requires the spell to make a ranged attack roll. BB and GFB make melee attacks. To be fair- a discussion with the DM can handle all of these issues. It wouldn’t be game breaking. Answered and stand corrected.

[ThatDuckGrant]

Spell Sniper requires the spell to make a ranged attack roll. BB and GFB make melee attacks. To be fair- a discussion with the DM can handle all of these issues. It wouldn’t be game breaking.

“When you cast a spell that requires you to make an attack roll, the spell’s range is doubled”

Did you not bother to actually read it?

[ThatDuckGrant]

Coffeelock, for those who don't know, uses aspect of the moon, warlock short rest spell slots, and sorcerer's font of magic to turn warlock spell slots into sorcery points into sorcerer spell slots which last until you take a long rest. Aspect of the moon allows you to skip ever taking a long rest as long as your DM allows it and doesn't use the optional rule from Xanathar's that would give you exhaustion for skipping long rests whether you have aspect of the moon or not. You thus end up with an arbitrarily high number of stockpiled spell slots and perhaps the most contentious build in 5e history.

This is certainly an interesting theory, and the build definitely could use some more resources. I don’t however think there are many cases in which a DM would reward a player for actively not taking long rests.

I did also consider going for higher levels of warlock, both for the short rest regeneration of slots (and thus sorcery points) and for some evocations, but it seemed that having access to the sorcerer’s level 6 through 9 spells was more important. In many cases, you’ll only be casting concentration spells in combat, and hopefully shouldn’t burn through your slots too fast, therefore you should have a couple slots per day to replenish your 19 sorcery points by level 20.

Though to be fair, I haven’t played this character above level 4 (at which point I’m having tons of fun with him) so I can’t claim to be a total expert on how the resources break out later on.

[Amechra]

I really like these. Also, in the barbarian/monk it says Barb1/Monk5/Barb1? Do you take another barb level or what? I would say the worst thing you lose from having a shield with that build is losing the ability to make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, which is a part of martial arts and lost when holding a shield.

To clarify, that's Barb1/Monk5/Barb+1/Monk+X.

Lizardfolk actually has you partially covered as far as bonus-action attacks go - you can bite someone as a bonus action 1/rest, which also nets you some temporary HP.

[Makorel]

Is it a build if I said being an Aasimar Monk gets you flight for when you need to punch something that's otherwise out of reach as well as some extra damage for that rare guy that's immune to being stunned?

[Trickery]

Is it a build if I said being an Aasimar Monk gets you flight for when you need to punch something that's otherwise out of reach as well as some extra damage for that rare guy that's immune to being stunned?

It's a small build, but it's a build. I've seen the same thing done with Aarakocra.

Proper Monk "builds" are difficult since the class is MAD and really needs its dexterity and wisdom maxed out ASAP. It doesn't help that the class features and most subclass features don't actually give the player any choices to make.

[Amechra]

Werewolf Detective
Wildhunt Shifter + Inquisitive Rogue

I just would like to point out how much synergy there is here, because it's kinda bizarre. You want to throw out bonus action Perception checks to find someone with expertise and advantage? You can get that by 3rd level, without spending an Expertise pick on Perception. Oh, and you get free proficiency in Perception and Survival, you skill monkey you.

[Zeikin]

“When you cast a spell that requires you to make an attack roll, the spell’s range is doubled”

Did you not bother to actually read it?

Apologies, I used an online source that has not transcribed the feat correctly. Build works then.

[Story_Optimized]

Looks like it’s been a while since anyone has added a build here, so I’ll give it a go.

This build focuses on a specific weapon I find extremely fun and eclectic, though difficult to optimize, and I’ve named the character based on the weapon.

The Shadow Whip

vHuman Hexblade 1, Shadow Sorcerer X
Abilities: 8, 14, 16, 8, 10, 16
ASIs: Spell Sniper (Booming Blade), Cha+4, War Caster, Con+4
Grab the Orzhov background from GGtR if you can. Adding Spirit Guardians to this makes things even more fun. I’m going to pretend you don’t have it though.

Option 4: The Shadow Whip.

The goal here is to control the battlefield by twinning Booming Blade at reach. Shadow sorcerer allows us to effectively debuff our enemies while we do so. It also gets us around the most obvious downside of the vHuman: Lack of darkvision. You get it to 120 feet, as good as a Drow, and without the sunlight sensitivity.

Here is the beginning of the build progression with suggested combat tactics. Admittedly, you stop gaining features later on that really add to your DPR, but your ability to give permanent disadvantage on saves (like quickened hold monster) makes your DPR stupidly high without you needing to deal the damage yourself.

1. Shadow sorcerer 1: take GFB to go along with BB from Spell Sniper and whatever 3 non-combat cantrips you like. I like Friends to pair with disguise self (more on that later). Take Shield and Absorb Elements as your spells. You’ll need them.

2. Hexblade 1: Now you can use your whip! I also take EB here for a ranged option, and I think AoA and Hex (for social encounters) are my two favorite warlock spells. Hellish Rebuke is also a great option.

3. Sorcerer 2: Take Disguise Self. Nothing really exciting happens this level, but Disguise Self and Friends combine for one hell of a social play, and unless you have a bard or rogue in the party, you’ll double as the FoP.

4. Sorcerer 3: Twinned Spell is mandatory. It doubles your damage output pretty frequently, and at this level, will have you dealing almost as much damage on opponents turns as your own, because low level mooks tend not to have great range or reach, so they’ll be forced to move off of booming blade.

Your other metamagic is up to you. Quicken is the best, but spending 2 sorcery points is pretty brutal at this level. I would pick up subtle, as it will let you use your shield and still cast Shield, and also lets you subtlecast Friends in social situations.

You also get Darkness that you can see through at this level, which means your DM is about to start digging through the Monster manual for mooks with tremorsense or you’ll be making your 2 attacks with advantage. This saves you from needing to pick up greater invisibility in the long run. I take misty step as my other spell.

5. Sorcerer 4: ASI should be Charisma+2, and feel free to take whatever sorcerer spell you like. At this point I’m probably concentrating on Darkness, but Enlarge/reduce or Blur aren’t terrible options. I would take Mirror Image.

6. Sorcerer 5: Twinned Haste is a hallmark of any sorcerer build. It works for you too, though maybe better if you twin it on two allies than yourself. You don’t have to pick Haste though, something like Fear can be great for you, with all the OAs it might cause from your reach. Counterspell and Hypnotic Pattern are also great choices. You can make this build what you want at this point.

7. Sorcerer 6: This is the reason you’re a shadow sorcerer. You just got a better version of heightened spell for the same cost. This ability meshes particularly well with effects that immobilize a target, like confusion and hold monster/person. If you think you’ll be fighting any humanoids soon, take hold person here. Otherwise, Slow is a debilitating debuff that’s also a save-or-suck. Your four-legged friend will make sure at least one of them won’t make that save.

From this point on, you can get more creative with your choices. I generally think that Cha 20 is better than War Caster at 8, but you’ll have to decide if you’re getting enough OAs to change up the order. Additionally, I take wrote in Con as my last 2 ASIs because you’re a d6 hit die frontliner, but you can choose if you’d rather go another (perhaps more offensive) route.

Metamagic: I would take quicken at 10 and heightened at 17. You can then summon a hound, and upcast hold monster to give 2 enemies disadvantage on their saving throw for 6 sorcery points and a 6th level spell. That’s an encounter ender there.

Spells I like from here are generally save spells. Things like hold monster and disintegrate are spells that your wizard stays away from, but you turn them into your DM’s bane.

If this gets any traction maybe I’ll post a whole spell progression, but this post is long enough as is.

I love this build - I used to play a whip-inquisitor in Pathfinder, and had given up on the build for 5e. Well done!

If I may make a suggestion, I think you can get more mileage out of this build in reverse - Sorc 2 / Hexblade X. The big advantage is that you eventually can apply Eldritch Smite to your booming blades to add an additional 6d8 force damage to your attacks (and knock your Huge or smaller opponents prone). It also enables the decaf coffeelock that another poster mentioned - even with Aspect of the Moon nerfed, a few short rests at the beginning of the day give you an expanded pool of sorcery points to booming blade with; after a short rest, you still have warlock slots you can use for Eldritch smite. Possible build would be Drow, or variant human and spend 8-12 hrs on a long rest, instead of 4-8. It also opens up all of your other pact weapon goodness - magic weapon via an invocation, darkness/devi'ls sight shenanigans, etc.

[Amechra]

A surprisingly decent combo (and definitely not just a result of me trying desperately to find a combo for Ranger and Monk):

Mr. Disintegration Pistol

Swiftstride Shifter Ranger 1/Monk (Kensei) 5/Ranger (Hunter) +2/Monk +12
Str 8/Dex 16/Con 13/Int 10/Wis 15/Cha 13

ASIs
5th: Crossbow Expert
11th: Sharpshooter
15th: +2 Dex
19th: +2 Dex

Ranger Options
Fighting Style: Archery
Hunter's Prey: Horde Breaker

Spells Known
At least one of Ensnaring Strike, Hail of Thorns, or Hunter's Mark, otherwise I dunno.

---

So, your strategy here is to pick Hand Crossbows as your first ranged Kensei weapon. They basically let you fight like a normal Monk, except your range is up to 120ft. You'll use Kensei's shot for one level (4th level, to be exact), and never again, unless you're running out of ammo for some reason.

Now, the peak of this thing is at 14th level - that's when you pick up Sharpen The Blade. If you dump 3 ki into Sharpen The Blade, you end up with a +3 hand crossbow... which gives you an extra +5 to hit that you can trade away to Sharpshooter. Making 3-4 attacks per round that deal 1d8+16 damage each sounds pretty OK to me...

Honestly, though, you'd probably be better off trading those three levels in Ranger for a 1-level dip in Fighter. Horde Breaker is nice (as long as your enemies cluster a bit, you can match the number of attacks a normal Monk gets in melee), and the spells are pretty decent, but they delay your ASIs and cool Kensei stuff a little too much...

[Jaryn]

Love the generalist celestial warlock. One of those would be a real asset to pretty much any party I think!

[MeeposFire]

Love the generalist celestial warlock. One of those would be a real asset to pretty much any party I think!

I think the smartest thing the OP did in this thread whether intentional or not was having that be so present at the start because it seems to dray a lot of attention.

[Tharkun]

I think the smartest thing the OP did in this thread whether intentional or not was having that be so present at the start because it seems to dray a lot of attention.
Note he also has been updating the links in the first few posts to all the builds in here, with short descriptions. This thread is a real asset and bookmarked for me.

[Story_Optimized]

Everyone says that the Giant Badger is the least of the new Revised Ranger options. Let's try and prove them wrong, shall we?

The Land Shark:

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/5840983d-0370-4799-b584-d04cd1c64e9b/d5hgoog-6a881596-c141-4654-b5b0-84955e850cd6.jpg/v1/fill/w_833,h_959,q_70,strp/swartt_sixclaw_portrait_by_yasminfoster_d5hgoog-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9 .eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZ DQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTg yMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7Imhla WdodCI6Ijw9MTAzNiIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzU4NDA5ODNkLTA zNzAtNDc5OS1iNTg0LWQwNGNkMWM2NGU5YlwvZDVoZ29vZy02Y Tg4MTU5Ni1jMTQxLTQ2NTQtYjViMC04NDk1NWU4NTBjZDYuanB nIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTkwMCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2Vyd mljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.bPAHNtzuRK4U7zOJj6 PXwViId2fGoBIxxZTCqgGQeWY

In Amity, you say “yahd”.

Ghostwise Halfling Beastmaster Ranger 6, Scout Rogue 14
16 Dex, 16 Wis, whatever else.
Crossbow Expert (4)
Magic Initiate - find familiar (10)
18 Dex (14)
20 Dex (16)
Sharpshooter (18)

Fighting Style - Two Weapon Fighting

At level 20, as long as you can hear, you can lurk about beneath the surface of the earth, then burst upward through the surface to rain 4 attacks (three from you, one from your badger mount) on an opponent, potentially all with advantage (with beast bond, if your first advantage-from-attacking-unseen attack hits, and/or with Help from your owl familiar), for single target damage of (3d6+15 crossbows)+(30 sharpshooter)+(1d6+5 badger)+(7d6 sneak)+(3d6 Hunter's Mark), for 99.3 dpr. Not too shabby for the lowly badger-rider!

You also have a familiar to be your eyes while you and your mount are underground in addition to your own blindsense, a few ranger spells, telepathic communication with your team mates, and a pretty solid action economy. If you roll high enough, you can take sharpshooter earlier, or if you have a friend who is willing to loan you their familiar, you can simply skip taking magic initiate. It's not bad, if relatively unremarkable, until you can get a second set of eyes. Even before that though - you are using ranged weapons. You have your familiar ready their movement for your turn, burst through the surface near someone, and then unload.

[Skylivedk]

I was speaking with LudicSavant, and he gave me a challenge:

Make Thief work. In combat. Also, be a back-alley surgeon (Healer's Kit + Healer Feat).

I've gotten to 3 solutions. Sorry for not doing full DPR calculations and the like for them yet; they're all fairly high level. The two DPR builds are comfortably above 150 in most cases; against most common AC a big chunk higher:

First Solution: The ZombieNaught
Half-orc, Long Death Monk 12 / Thief 5 / Zealot Barbarian 3
Role: Non-magic healer, Grappler, Immortal Tank
So this is your good old half-orc, strength monk, barbarian, rogue multi-class. If you play Adventurer's League, change zealot to Bearbarian and you lose some damage and flavour in return for more tankiness.

Biggest drawback? When you roll up to your session with this beauty, the table will sigh and go "not again...".

Starting Stats:
14/14/16/8/14/8
Ending Stats (With Gauntlets of Ogre Strength):
19/14/16/8/20/8
Feats: Healer
Skills: Athletics (Expertise), Stealth (Expertise), Perception, Survival, Knowledge: Religion, Intimidation - the last two are pure flavour, feel free to change.

Background: you were never a quite competent thief and managed to get yourself executed. Several times. Marked by the Kiss of Death, an order of monks took you in. You drank the corporate juice and now you flirt more with Death than Thanos and Deadpool combined. In a matter of seconds, you can fix an artery (and prefer to do so when blood is gushing fountain wide splashes all over). Your combination of Rage and Uncanny Dodge make you neigh unkillable and if you do get to dance with your cold mistress, it takes nothing but a ki-point to stay on your feet. Of course, being a half-orc you have always had a bit of that tendency in you.

In combat you're fast (50 movement speed, Bonus Action Dash) and you grapple with the best of them (Expertise Athletics, Advantage). Your DPR is not fantastic (4 x (1d8+6) + 4d6+2), but you have pretty good CC (Stunning Strike and Hour of Reaping). You have a lot of competition for you bonus action usage, so that's probably the most fun decision making you have: it can be defence, movement speed, healing, attacks, etc etc. Most of the time, you probably want to start off by grabbing backline squishies and pummel them/drag them back to your crew who then proceeds to pummel them.

You jump, no check, 21 feet. With step of the wind, 42 feet. You like to work together with Spiked Growth, Create Bonfire, Firewall, etc etc. Most attacks are reduced 25% efficiency against you.

Leveling this little beauty might be a little hard. I'd suggest Rogue 1, Monk 6, Thief up to 5, Zealot 3, Monk rest.

You NEED Gauntlets of Ogre Strength or Belt of Giant Strength. You love magic short swords. Besides that you are very loin cloth friendly

Second Solution: Simic Hybrid 4 Arms of Grappling Death
Battlemaster 12 / Hexblade 1 / Gloom Stalker 4 / Thief 3
Role: DPR, Skill monkey. DPR. Grappler. Cheese. Healer.
So this is a DPR and grappling machine, that mixes Battle Master, Gloomstalker and Baleful Curse for first round damage in the range of 200+ using only short rest resources (Hexblade's Curse, and supp dice).

Starting Stats:
16/13/13/8/13/13
Ending Stats:
20/13/14/8/13/13
Feats: Healer, GWM, 2 x Strength ASI, Res: CON (or WIS, depending on starting class)
Spells: Hex, Shield (not super key any of them)
Skills: Athletics (Expertise), Thieves' Tools (Expertise), Perception, Acrobatics, X, Y

Pretty simple concept. In the first round of combat you make 8 attacks (Gloom stalker triggers on both your attack and your action surge). You use Trip and Precision Strike. If/when you trip an enemy, you can grapple them (with one of your extra limbs) and continue to pummel them until they stop resisting. They're probably not getting out against your +17 checks. You can impose disadvantage with Hex if you'd like later (and increase your DPR a bit).
DPR is 191 without advantage and 240 with advantage against AC 19 on level 20. Numbers aren't exact. I'm not sure of how to use Ludic's sheet to calculate the combination of precision (the range is looking to be around 190-278 DPR; latter being with BC up already):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/153jaKEkt2lv5tY2UYxUAeYvAuqMvmDAIrqdaPh78AaI/edit?usp=sharing

Note: you do not use the SAD part of the Hexblade. You just want the curse for the extra damage and crit-range.

Out of combat you can heal with Healer. I'd consider dropping Healer for one more level in Gloomstalker and picking up Spike Growth. Especially if your DM rules that Spike Growth triggers Baleful Curse.

Third Solution: Simic Hybrid or Half-Elf Swift Blade & Bottle
Eldritch Knight 11 / Hexblade 1 / Sorcerer 5 / Thief 3
Role: DPR. Control. Cheese.
This take uses SAD from Hexblade and combines it with more spell-casting to take advantage of the EK level 10 ability. You can also use Alchemist's Fire + Hexblade Curse + Flask of Oil for a steady 1d4+prof+5+dex DoT (damage over time)

Starting Stats as Half-Elf:
9/14/16/8/11/17 OR 10/14/15/8/12/17
Ending Stats:
9/14/16/8/12/20 OR 10/14/16/8/12/20
Feats: Elven Accuracy (CHA), Cha Bump, RES:CON OR RES:WIS, Last Feat: Tavern Brawler (for Alchemist's Fire), Healer or War Caster (I prefer one of the last two)
Spells: Go for control, defence and AoE.
Skills: Athletics (Expertise), Thieves' Tools (Expertise), Perception, Acrobatics, X, Y

Variant: Drop Sorcerer and go Hexblade 5 + EK 12; more interesting with a Short Rest heavy campaign. It gives you better short rest slots and 1 more ASI.

A 3rd variant is to bet less on your spell-casting, use slots mostly for defence and shadow blade. With that in mind you can even go Battlemaster and if you wish, a Simic-Hybrid build for grappling. Shadow Blade focus is better in low magic campaigns, since the spell (especially upcasted) compares more favourably to non-magic items. Also remember, you are not SAD with Shadow Blade.

EDIT: DPR without advantage, with Shadow Blade, Action Surge, Baleful Curse, Alch Fire and Bless, is 130 and with advantage 181.

Fourth Solution: Spider-Man
Wood-Elf or Simic Hybrid Battle Master 3 / Thief 3-6 / Open Hand Monk 9-14
Role: Disabler. Skill monkey.

If wood-elf, starting stats: 12 / 16 / 14 / 8 / 16 / 8 or basically anything that ensure 16 DEX and WIS while keeping a decent CON score (you can have 16 and two 13 if you want Resilient or more multiclass options).

We want Monk 9 to be able to run on walls. Bonus Action: Use an Item should work with a grappling hook, but as far as I know NOTHING is written about it in the PHB, so ask your DM. If you want to keep the character very close to Spidey, stop Monk before 10 so you don't become immune to Poison. Otherwise, you have interesting break points all the up to 14 (Diamond Soul). If you do 12/4/4 you get five feats, which is enough for maxing Dex and Wis and grabbing a feat (Mobile and Tavern Brawler are both pretty thematic).

Level combinations, I've looked at: Open hand 9-11 / Thief 5-6 / Battle Master 3-4 / Gloomstalker 1-3. If good stats: Open Hand 9, Thief 5, Battlemaster 3, Gloomstalker 3 can be fun.

This class should mirror a good Spider-Man feel; you can be anywhere on the battlefield, control fairly well with manoeuvres+stunning strike+open hand manoeuvres. The ranger dip is mostly interesting with high stats and if you want some good burst and a Spider-Sense mirror and Entangle for Webbing equivalents. All in all, I like that build (9/5/3/3) best, but it's ASI starved.

As per usual, a Hexblade dip can also work to boost damage (again depending on stats), but it clogs your bonus action. I personally liked a version with Lore Bard to have cutting words and web, but it's far far from a great idea (and maybe swap the Battlemaster for Warlock to have Grasp of Hadar).

To be completed. - DPR calculations, more tactical descriptions, etc

[Nhorianscum]

Not to be facetious but...

Thief 17 with UMD is slightly kinda absolutely broken...

I mean

Minimal abuse here is like Thief 17/Fighter 2/Hexblade 1

Round 1

Hexcurse
7 MM
7MM
7MM

200 flat damage.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[Amechra]

OK, this is a bit ridiculous, and relies on UA and an optional rule in Xanathar's, but...

Monsieur DeLafleur, Cook Extraordinaire!
Build: V. Human Bard 2
Niche: Short-Rest Non-Magical Healer
ASIs: Gourmand (UA)

Gourmand gives you proficiency in Cooking Utensils, which are pretty important for this. There is a variant rule in Xanathar's that makes it so feeding a tasty meal to your buddies as part of a short rest gives them +1 HP per HD spent. Gourmand also lets you make meals as part of a long rest that give back two extra HD (gets more useful at higher levels) and advantage on saves vs. disease for 24 hours.

Oh, and you have Song of Rest. Do remember to use that.

Is it a powerful early-level build? No. Is it neat to be able to heal 4 extra HP on a short rest on average by singing and cooking a meal? I submit that yes.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm talking at an extra 4 HP on average at 2nd level, assuming that everyone spends 1 HD per short rest. Is that a lot? No, not particularly. However, look at how little it cost you to get that little bump - a single tool proficiency. It also translates to "you get the benefits of Durable without the +1 Con" to everyone with a Constitution under 16 in your party. That's nothing to sneeze at.

As for the Gourmand feat itself... it mostly helps out by letting parties be a little freer with their hit-dice without having to worry about being down for the next day. That "extra" 2d12+(1+Con)x2 healing per day on your Barbarian will probably be greatly appreciated.

It's also flavorful as hell, and doesn't really cost you anything other than having to carry around some extra food (unless the party Ranger wants to make themselves useful...)

[Zetakya]

OK, this is a bit ridiculous, and relies on UA and an optional rule in Xanathar's, but...

Monsieur DeLafleur, Cook Extraordinaire!
Build: V. Human Bard 2
Niche: Short-Rest Non-Magical Healer
ASIs: Gourmand (UA)

Gourmand gives you proficiency in Cooking Utensils, which are pretty important for this. There is a variant rule in Xanathar's that makes it so feeding a tasty meal to your buddies as part of a short rest gives them +1 HP per HD spent. Gourmand also lets you make meals as part of a long rest that give back two extra HD (gets more useful at higher levels) and advantage on saves vs. disease for 24 hours.

Oh, and you have Song of Rest. Do remember to use that.

Is it a powerful early-level build? No. Is it neat to be able to heal 4 extra HP on a short rest on average by singing and cooking a meal? I submit that yes.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm talking at an extra 4 HP on average at 2nd level, assuming that everyone spends 1 HD per short rest. Is that a lot? No, not particularly. However, look at how little it cost you to get that little bump - a single tool proficiency. It also translates to "you get the benefits of Durable without the +1 Con" to everyone with a Constitution under 16 in your party. That's nothing to sneeze at.

As for the Gourmand feat itself... it mostly helps out by letting parties be a little freer with their hit-dice without having to worry about being down for the next day. That "extra" 2d12+(1+Con)x2 healing per day on your Barbarian will probably be greatly appreciated.

It's also flavorful as hell, and doesn't really cost you anything other than having to carry around some extra food (unless the party Ranger wants to make themselves useful...)

Wasn't there a sourcebook - I can't remember the title, and it may not be for this edition - which had rules for various things you could harvest from dead monsters, including some which had meat with magical effects. If so, you could go with Ranger and have a real Iron Chef vibe going on, where you could hunt down magical beasts to cook the tastiest meals for your party!

[BarneyBent]

Not to be facetious but...

Thief 17 with UMD is slightly kinda absolutely broken...

I mean

Minimal abuse here is like Thief 17/Fighter 2/Hexblade 1

Round 1

Hexcurse
7 MM
7MM
7MM

200 flat damage.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

How is a Thief casting so many Magic Missiles?

[Amechra]

How is a Thief casting so many Magic Missiles?

I'm guessing that they've got a Wand of Magic Missile, and they're using Action Surge + Fast Hands to use it 3/turn. From there, I'm guessing that they're pulling out and burning through three such wands. That's 27 missiles in one round, for something like 94.5 damage on average before any sort of damage boost.

Of course, they're missing Haste (for another Use An Object action), but hey.

[BarneyBent]

I'm guessing that they've got a Wand of Magic Missile, and they're using Action Surge + Fast Hands to use it 3/turn. From there, I'm guessing that they're pulling out and burning through three such wands. That's 27 missiles in one round, for something like 94.5 damage on average before any sort of damage boost.

Of course, they're missing Haste (for another Use An Object action), but hey.

Fast Hands can’t be used to cast spells through magic objects. A magic item requires the “Activate An Item” action, which is a different action to the “Use An Object” action.

From the DMG - Activate An Item:


Activating some magic items requires a user to do omething special, such as holding the item and uttering a command word. The description of each item category or individual item details how an item is activated. Certain items use one or more of the following rules for their activation. If an item requires an action to activate, that action isn't a function of the Use an Item action, so a feature such as the rogue's Fast Hands can't be used to activate the item.

I would imagine a Thief could use Fast Hands to draw the wand, or even throw it to someone, but not actually activate and cast a spell with it.

[Nhorianscum]

Fast Hands can’t be used to cast spells through magic objects. A magic item requires the “Activate An Item” action, which is a different action to the “Use An Object” action.

From the DMG - Activate An Item:



I would imagine a Thief could use Fast Hands to draw the wand, or even throw it to someone, but not actually activate and cast a spell with it.

The thief capstone allows taking 2 full turns on the first turn of the combat. We're using fast hands to draw items at an accelerated rate for shenanigans but UMD + Thief's reflexes + Surge allows us to drop any 3 spells we can get from any items on turn 1.

I just chose MM wands because A) They're cheap, hilariously so for tier 3+ and B) If your DPR build is worse than MM wand spam in tier 3 it's not an effective DPR build outside of white room. (In this case a +9 str belt +3 weapon thief with a source of haste (potion) can deal 204 damage turn 1 while MM spam with hexcurse hits 199.5 so I'm lowballing)

[Skylivedk]

The thief capstone allows taking 2 full turns on the first turn of the combat. We're using fast hands to draw items at an accelerated rate for shenanigans but UMD + Thief's reflexes + Surge allows us to drop any 3 spells we can get from any items on turn 1.

I just chose MM wands because A) They're cheap, hilariously so for tier 3+ and B) If your DPR build is worse than MM wand spam in tier 3 it's not an effective DPR build outside of white room. (In this case a +9 str belt +3 weapon thief with a source of haste (potion) can deal 204 damage turn 1 while MM spam with hexcurse hits 199.5 so I'm lowballing)

Yeah, the ZombieNaught is item dependent - more of a flavour than power build though. Otherwise, they aren't, but good point. My own (group's) games don't use most of the DMG items, especially not wands and stat changers, so I have a tendency to miss them in my theory crafting.

My biggest issue with this exercise is seeing how strong Baleful Curse and Gloomstalker dips are for non-magic damage. Even the Spider Man build would probably benefit a lot from it (currently looking at Open Hand monk 9/Battle master 3/Thief 3-5 and then either Lore Bard 5 for the flavorful cutting words or Gloomstalker 3 for entangle and first strike boosts).

[Tharkun]

Magic Missles hit simultaneously and only trigger hex once.

[LudicSavant]

Hey all, I’ve been busy but hopefully I’ll find time to post more builds soon!


Note he also has been updating the links in the first few posts to all the builds in here, with short descriptions. This thread is a real asset and bookmarked for me.

:)

Indeed! And I will continue to update periodically with everything you guys post.


Magic Missles hit simultaneously and only trigger hex once.

Magic Missiles do not trigger Hex at all actually, as they are not an Attack.

They do however work just fine with Hexblade’s Curse.

[Amechra]

Fast Hands can’t be used to cast spells through magic objects. A magic item requires the “Activate An Item” action, which is a different action to the “Use An Object” action.

From the DMG - Activate An Item:



I would imagine a Thief could use Fast Hands to draw the wand, or even throw it to someone, but not actually activate and cast a spell with it.

Oops.

In my defense, those actions are synonyms...

[BarneyBent]

The thief capstone allows taking 2 full turns on the first turn of the combat. We're using fast hands to draw items at an accelerated rate for shenanigans but UMD + Thief's reflexes + Surge allows us to drop any 3 spells we can get from any items on turn 1.

I just chose MM wands because A) They're cheap, hilariously so for tier 3+ and B) If your DPR build is worse than MM wand spam in tier 3 it's not an effective DPR build outside of white room. (In this case a +9 str belt +3 weapon thief with a source of haste (potion) can deal 204 damage turn 1 while MM spam with hexcurse hits 199.5 so I'm lowballing)

Ah right, gotcha, that makes more sense.

[BarneyBent]

Oops.

In my defense, those actions are synonyms...

Oh yeah it’s super confusing. Especially since Activate An Item isn’t articulated in the PHB, only the DMG. You’d think they’d just errata it into the PHB for clarity.

[BarneyBent]

The Booming Trickster:

This build makes use of the Trickery Cleric's Invoke Duplicity and Booming Blade from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide to create a magical rogue that can deliver melee sneak attacks without ever leaving cover. This makes use of the specific wording of Booming Blade, in which a melee attack with a weapon is part of the cast a spell action, and specific wording of Invoke Duplicity, which allows you to "cast spells as though you were in the duplicate's position". In other words, your duplicate doesn't need to be able to attack or cast spells or anything, rather you assume your duplicate's position for the purposes of casting the spell, which includes making the weapon attack. Note that this reading, though strictly correct by RAW (Sage Advice confirms that the melee weapon attack is "part of the spell's casting"), is highly counter-intuitive and may be seen as contentious/not RAI, so check with your DM before you try this build.

Race: Wood Elf
Class: Trickery Cleric 4, Rogue 4 (Arcane Trickster)
DEX 17, WIS 14, CON 14, the rest don't really matter unless you plan on taking other multiclasses.
ASI: Elven Accuracy (+1 DEX to bring it to 18), +2 DEX

Cantrips:
Booming Blade (AT)
Friends (AT)
Mage Hand (AT)
Guidance (Cleric)
Word of Radiance (Cleric)
Thaumaturgy/whatever other cantrip you want (Cleric)

1st level spells:
Charm Person (Cleric)
Disguise Self (Cleric)
Bless (Cleric)
Healing Word (Cleric)
Detect Magic (Cleric)
Shield (AT)
Find Familiar (AT)
Whatever other AT spells you want

2nd level spells:
Mirror Image (Cleric)
Pass Without Trace (Cleric)
Lesser Restoration (Cleric)
Prayer of Healing (Cleric)
Enhance Ability (Cleric)

For low-risk battles, this trickster operates as you'd expect a typical melee rogue or cleric to. A solid secondary frontliner, the use of Booming Blade plus bonus action disengages makes for a solid opponent that taunts enemies into triggering the Booming Blade rider. Shield and Mirror Image greatly increases durability, a familiar helps get advantage to make the most of Elven Accuracy, we all know Healing Word is a wonderful way to get downed allies up and back in the fight, and if you've got the slots you can always drop a Bless. Fairly straightforward balance of spellcasting utility and Sneak-Attack augmented SCAGtrips for DPR.

In more challenging combats, the trickster Invokes Duplicity on its first turn and finds a place to hide as a Bonus Action. As a Wood Elf, you will find this much easier than most, which is why I chose this race. While Hiding, you can cast Booming Blade with advantage from your duplicate's position without placing yourself at risk. With triple advantage you will rarely miss and often crit, and although you will reveal your location with the attack, your enemy cannot try to close the distance without triggering Booming Blade's rider, and you can hide once again as a Bonus Action. At level 8 you will be doing 2d8+2d6+4 = 20 damage per round with close to 100% hit chance on AC-appropriate enemies while locking your target's movement down, at almost zero risk to your person. Meanwhile, your familiar can provide advantage to allies, and you retain all your other tricks. You can use a similar trick on groups of weaker enemies, using Word Of Radiance through your duplicate as a 5ft radius, resource-less AoE bomb whenever you need it.

Out of combat you are even more useful. As a Rogue, you will likely have expertise in Stealth. Through a combination of Pass Without Trace, Guidance and Blessing Of The Trickster, you will never have to worry about your party (including your clumsy, heavily armored Paladin) failing a stealth roll ever again. Though your Charisma is likely poor, you can combine Disguise Self (or a disguise kit) with advantage on Charisma checks through Friends (short term) or Enhance Ability (longer term) to infiltrate wherever you need to. Expertise in Deception or Persuasion will also assist. And depending on how much your DM lets your duplicate do socially (the definition of a "perfect illusion" is very vague, but by RAW others get no opportunity to detect that it's an illusion), you may not even need to physically be there to infiltrate!

This build does very good DPR (it won't match a fully optimised Sharpshooter/XBE/Elven Accuracy build at the same level, but will match a typical fighter and outstrip a pure-class Rogue handily), it's almost untouchable in combat and is a fantastic social support/infiltrator.

Variants:

The Paladin of Trickery

TL;DR more or less the same build, but instead of Rogue, you take Paladin and focus on Booming Smites. You can mix in Sorcerer for quickened or twinned Booming Blades at range. You don't need to hide, you can just stay a few feet out of reach of your enemy and taunt them as you smite them and lock them in place from relative safety. You get higher nova and possibly a Paladin level 6 feature for slightly greater vulnerability and the loss of some utility (especially trading spell slots for smites), but depending on your party makeup it might be a better fit.

The Flying Trickster

Race: Anything with flight (e.g. winged Tiefling, Aaracokra, Protector Aasimar)
Stats: depends on the race, but DEX first, then WIS

This variant, instead of bonus action hiding, simply flies away. Note that the wording of Invoke Duplicity applies a 120 ft range limit only when discussing your movement of the duplicate using your bonus action. It says "As a bonus action on your turn you can move the duplicate up to 30 ft, but it must stay within 120 ft of you". There are no consequences listed for you moving greater than 120 ft from the duplicate. This a matter of vague wording in which the strict RAW leaves gaps in the rules that must be filled by the DM, but a more literal DM will rule that you cannot move the duplicate greater than 120 ft away from you, but you can move greater than 120 ft away from it (but probably can no longer move it while at that range). With this ruling, you can bonus action Dash to fly as far away as your eyes can still see while still attacking from the duplicate's position, becoming essentially invulnerable to all but a few possible enemy threats, ducking back into range only if combat moves past your duplicate.

Without this ruling (e.g. either you physically can't move greater than 120 ft away, the duplicate disappears if you move greater than 120 ft away, or you lose all ability to use the duplicate while greater than 120 ft away), you are still likely to be able to position yourself in the air so that you're greater than 150 ft away from any enemy archers while still within 120 ft of the duplicate, achieving most of the previously stated benefits - if the archers are closer than 150 ft, they've basically put themselves in melee range as you can move your duplicate to attack them anyway. Win-win.

[Corran]

Note that this reading, though strictly correct by RAW....
Nope. This isn't the thread to talk about it, but no.

[BarneyBent]

Nope. This isn't the thread to talk about it, but no.

100% works RAW. The melee attack is part of casting the spell by RAW. It’s part of the Cast A Spell action. You cannot cast the spell without making the attack (“the spell fails”, which is terminology used when you have failed to cast a spell). It’s an extremely specific circumstance unique to the SCAGtrips.

If Invoke Duplicity said “you can use the duplicate’s position to determine the range of spells you cast”, it wouldn’t work - it would cause a mismatch between the range of the spell and the reach of your weapon. But it doesn’t say that. It says “you can cast spells as though you were in the duplicate’s space”, and in this very specific circumstance, that means you also make a weapon attack as though you were in the duplicate’s space, because it is part of the spell’s casting. Both range and reach are determined by your position, which you share with the duplicate. Therefore, though it’s hard to make sense of narratively, you are for all intents and purposes in the duplicate’s space when you make the attack.

[Corran]

100% works RAW. The melee attack is part of casting the spell by RAW..
That's not enough. Melee attack will fail unless the enemy is within your weapon reach, so the spell will fail. I've read through the relevant thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?592730-Invoke-Duplicity-and-the-SCAGtrips). I leave it here for reference and so that anyone interested in further debating this can do so there and not here.

[Nhorianscum]

The wording of the spell booming blade states that a mele attack must comprise a portion of the S component.

The duplicate explicitly cannot perform a mele attack. It can perform spell attacks which are distinct.

This is why the duplicate can cast inflict wounds but not BB. Specific trumps general.

[LudicSavant]

The Thief often seems to get overestimated or underestimated based on folks, for whatever reason, being confused about what exactly Fast Hands can and cannot do. So here's a rundown:

Fast Hands


Using magic items, including potions, is not covered by the Use an Object action, as clarified in the DMG.
Attacking with Alchemist’s Fire and similar actions is legal. Counterintutively, while you make attacks with these items, you do not use the Attack action while doing so. It’s the Use an Object action. (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/720728407730819072)

Using caltrops, oil, hunting traps, ball bearings, and healer’s kits (including with the Healer feat) are all fair game.
Steal an item off an enemy in combat, such as an archer’s quiver or a caster’s components.
You can don or doff a shield with Fast Hands. (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/12/24/could-a-fighterthief-use-fast-hands-to-don-a-shield/)
Simply getting more "object interactions" per turn. Close the door and lock or bar it.
Use a Climber's Kit to anchor yourself to a wall. Combines neatly with Second Story Work.
Disable a trap, or reset one you’ve already bypassed to use it against your enemies.
Use poisons.
You can probably do stuff like throw a bag of flour at an invisible foe, flip a table for instant cover, or topple a bookshelf to create a hazard or difficult terrain.


The attack with alchemical weapons is worth elaborating on in its own right, because their implementation in 5e is rather obtuse.


If you hit someone with Alchemist's Fire, the burning adds your Dexterity to damage. Every turn. (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/04/13/does-alchemists-fire-on-hit-adds-dex-modifier-to-damage/)
Unlike many bonus action attacks, Fast Hands doesn't require you to take the Attack action first, which is pretty handy when you want to UMD a Wand or something.

One big limitation for the Thief is that you can't sneak attack with alchemical weapons, because Improvised Weapons do not count as Ranged Weapons even if they make Ranged Weapon Attacks. Clear as mud right? :smalltongue:
Alchemical weapons don't add your proficiency to hit unless you have the Tavern Brawler feat. I am aware of no other way to gain proficiency.
Alchemical weapons can eat money pretty fast in the early game (except for oil vials). And proficiency is a bigger deal later on anyways. So I'm inclined to hold off on getting Tavern Brawler until after other things like Dex-ups.

[Amechra]

Everyone, everyone, we just had a thread arguing about this! Why not go back to happy things, like...

The True Skill Monkey

"Is there anything you don't know?" "Bovine dentistry, but I'm looking to pick it up next week."

Half-Elf (Skill Versatility) Charlatan Rogue (Scout) 4/Bard (Lore) 6/Rogue +2/Bard +8
Role: Maximum skill monkey
Str 8/Dex 16/Con 12/Int 10/Wis 14/Cha 16

ASIs:
4th: Skilled
8th: Prodigy
14th: +2 Dex
18th: +2 Dex



Level Range
New Skills Learned
Tool Proficiencies

Expertise Picks


1st - 2nd
Athletics, Acrobatics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand
Disguise Kit, Forgery Kit, Thieves' Tools
2


3rd
Nature, Survival

2


4th
Medicine, Performance, Stealth

2


5th - 6th
Arcana
Any instrument
2


7th
History, Investigation, Religion

4


8th - 11th
Animal Handling
Any tool
5


12th - 15th
No more left!

7


16th - 20th
No more left!

9



Let's break that down, shall we? By the time you've hit 8th level, you are proficient in all skills. All of them. You also have 9 Expertise picks over 20 levels, thanks to Prodigy - I'd use at least one of them on Athletics to cover for your wimpy Strength score. In terms of other skill-monkey features, you have Jack of All Trades at 6th level granting you half-proficiency with stuff like Initiative rolls and the like, as well as the always helpful Cutting Words (comes online at 7th level) and your brand-new shiny capstone (Peerless Skill - yes, it was delayed by that much.)

Some Alternatives:
This build only really works for Half-Elves, because they're the only race that grants proficiency in two skills that has access to a second proficiency-granting feat (the other choice being Squat Nimbleness, and there aren't any Small two-skilled races). You can make up this deficit if you really need to by dipping a level of Ranger (+1 skill from their list) or Cleric (Arcana grants Arcana, Nature grants Nature (duh), and Order grants Intimidation or Persuasion).

If you're willing to take those dips, Changelings, Kenku, Lizardfolk, Shifters, or Tabaxi are interesting alternate racial choices. Changelings and Kenku especially, since you'd have some interesting skill-monkey-ish racial features. Alternatively, you could just go Variant Human and pick up Prodigy at 1st level...

Knowledge Clerics:
Knowledge Clerics are an interesting alternative that I just couldn't figure out a way to fit - they get two bonus proficiencies that are automatically Expertise picks, a CD that lets them pick up a proficiency on the fly, and a couple more languages.

Warlocks:
If you're willing to dip two levels of Warlock, you can pick up proficiency in Deception and Persuasion (Beguiling Influence). I don't think it's worth it for this kind of build, though.

[Tallytrev813]

Gotta tell you, OP.

Im playing the Original Post Arcana Cleric right now in a campaign and loving it. Very fun build, allows you to do a lot in combat.

[Amechra]

The Thief often seems to get overestimated or underestimated based on folks, for whatever reason, being confused about what exactly Fast Hands can and cannot do. So here's a rundown:

Fast Hands


Using magic items, including potions, is not covered by the Use an Object action, as clarified in the DMG.
Attacking with Alchemist’s Fire and similar actions is legal. Counterintutively, while you make attacks with these items, you do not use the Attack action while doing so. It’s the Use an Object action. (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/720728407730819072)

Using caltrops, oil, hunting traps, ball bearings, and healer’s kits (including with the Healer feat) are all fair game.
Steal an item off an enemy in combat, such as an archer’s quiver or a caster’s components.
You can don or doff a shield with Fast Hands. (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/12/24/could-a-fighterthief-use-fast-hands-to-don-a-shield/)
Simply getting more "object interactions" per turn. Close the door and lock or bar it.
Use a Climber's Kit to anchor yourself to a wall. Combines neatly with Second Story Work.
Disable a trap, or reset one you’ve already bypassed to use it against your enemies.
Use poisons.
You can probably do stuff like throw a bag of flour at an invisible foe, flip a table for instant cover, or topple a bookshelf to create a hazard or difficult terrain.


The attack with alchemical weapons is worth elaborating on in its own right, because their implementation in 5e is rather obtuse.


If you hit someone with Alchemist's Fire, the burning adds your Dexterity to damage. Every turn. (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/04/13/does-alchemists-fire-on-hit-adds-dex-modifier-to-damage/)
Unlike many bonus action attacks, Fast Hands doesn't require you to take the Attack action first, which is pretty handy when you want to UMD a Wand or something.

One big limitation for the Thief is that you can't sneak attack with alchemical weapons, because Improvised Weapons do not count as Ranged Weapons even if they make Ranged Weapon Attacks. Clear as mud right? :smalltongue:
Alchemical weapons don't add your proficiency to hit unless you have the Tavern Brawler feat. I am aware of no other way to gain proficiency.
Alchemical weapons can eat money pretty fast in the early game (except for oil vials). And proficiency is a bigger deal later on anyways. So I'm inclined to hold off on getting Tavern Brawler until after other things like Dex-ups.



Wait...

The way I read it, a flask of oil is not a one-and-done damage boost. You hit someone with it, they take +5 fire damage for the next minute.

So a third level Thief can open combat by tossing a flask of oil as an action and a flask of alchemist's fire as a bonus action, making some poor victim take 1d4+5+Dex fire damage per turn until they save. ~10 fire damage a round is nothing to sneeze at.

[BarneyBent]

That's not enough. Melee attack will fail unless the enemy is within your weapon reach, so the spell will fail. I've read through the relevant thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?592730-Invoke-Duplicity-and-the-SCAGtrips). I leave it here for reference and so that anyone interested in further debating this can do so there and not here.

Except that Invoke Duplicity modifies your reach for weapon attacks that are part of casting the spell. You make the attack as if in the duplicate’s space. Therefore, your reach is determined by the duplicate’s position, not your own. That’s the unique thing about Invoke Duplicity compared to Distant Metamagic or Spell Sniper - it doesn’t modify the spell’s range, it modifies where you cast it from, which includes where you make the attack (as part of the spell’s casting) from.


The wording of the spell booming blade states that a mele attack must comprise a portion of the S component.

The duplicate explicitly cannot perform a mele attack. It can perform spell attacks which are distinct.

This is why the duplicate can cast inflict wounds but not BB. Specific trumps general.

The duplicate cannot cast make spell attacks, it cannot cast spells, it actually isn’t said that it can do anything at all, and it doesn’t need to. You are casting the spell. You are doing everything from the duplicate’s position.

Replace “duplicate” with “inanimate cube of light” in Invoke Duplicity’s description. It works exactly the same. You are using the duplicate as the point from which you cast the spell, that’s it.

[Skylivedk]

Wait...

The way I read it, a flask of oil is not a one-and-done damage boost. You hit someone with it, they take +5 fire damage for the next minute.

So a third level Thief can open combat by tossing a flask of oil as an action and a flask of alchemist's fire as a bonus action, making some poor victim take 1d4+5+Dex fire damage per turn until they save. ~10 fire damage a round is nothing to sneeze at.

Yes - and you can add proficiency bonus from Baleful Curse (which I hope I mentioned on the second or third variant).

[Nhorianscum]

Except that Invoke Duplicity modifies your reach for weapon attacks that are part of casting the spell. You make the attack as if in the duplicate’s space. Therefore, your reach is determined by the duplicate’s position, not your own. That’s the unique thing about Invoke Duplicity compared to Distant Metamagic or Spell Sniper - it doesn’t modify the spell’s range, it modifies where you cast it from, which includes where you make the attack (as part of the spell’s casting) from.



The duplicate cannot cast make spell attacks, it cannot cast spells, it actually isn’t said that it can do anything at all, and it doesn’t need to. You are casting the spell. You are doing everything from the duplicate’s position.

Replace “duplicate” with “inanimate cube of light” in Invoke Duplicity’s description. It works exactly the same. You are using the duplicate as the point from which you cast the spell, that’s it.

I would estimate that you are (conservatively) misreading 100% of those abilities.

[8wGremlin]

When you cast booming blade you make a melee attack as part of that spell. With the limit of the reach of the weapon.

So where ever you are standing when you cast that spell is the point of origin for the melee attack.

Agreed, good.

Now the duplicate states that your point of origin can be you or the point at where the duplicate is.

This if the duplicate is 15 feet in front of you for all intents and purposes you are effectively there.

So your melee attack would use its point as the point of its reach.

It’s one of the weirder aspects of dnd but it’s Raw.

[Tallytrev813]

When you cast booming blade you make a melee attack as part of that spell. With the limit of the reach of the weapon.

So where ever you are standing when you cast that spell is the point of origin for the melee attack.

Agreed, good.

Now the duplicate states that your point of origin can be you or the point at where the duplicate is.

This if the duplicate is 15 feet in front of you for all intents and purposes you are effectively there.

So your melee attack would use its point as the point of its reach.

It’s one of the weirder aspects of dnd but it’s Raw.

Same thing thats been said 100 times already.

Using your logic - the RAW indicate your spell origin changes, but it doesnt indicate your melee weapon attack origin changes.

The two can be tied together without having the same point of origin.

Maybe my logic is wrong, but i haven't seen anything that's convinced me otherwise.

[BarneyBent]

I would estimate that you are (conservatively) misreading 100% of those abilities.

I’m the one directly quoting the rules. Please indicate where I’m misreading them.


Same thing thats been said 100 times already.

Using your logic - the RAW indicate your spell origin changes, but it doesnt indicate your melee weapon attack origin changes.

The two can be tied together without having the same point of origin.

Maybe my logic is wrong, but i haven't seen anything that's convinced me otherwise.

RAW explicitly says “you can cast spells as if you were in the duplicate’s space”. Not that “the point of origin for the spell” changes to the duplicate’s space. Not that the range of the spell changes. That YOUR POSITION, for the purposes of casting the spell and all that entails, changes.

So, when you make the melee attack, your position is, for the purposes of making the attack, your duplicate’s.

You can rule that it’s nonsensical. That’s fine. I said at the start of the build, a DM may rule it as not RAI - Invoke Duplicity is so vaguely worded that it practically begs DMs to overlay their own interpretations (see my Flying variant and the 120 ft rule). I would never blame any DM for not letting it work.

But for the purposes of casting the spell, you’re in the duplicate’s space. The melee attack is part of casting the spell. Therefore, you are in the duplicate’s space for the purpose of making the melee attack.

Again, if it only changed the point of origin for the spell, you’d be 100% correct. But it doesn’t. It changes your position, which affects not only the point of origin of the spell, but anything else involved in its casting, including (in this instance) the melee attack with a weapon.

[Amechra]

Guys. This is the thread for fun and surprising builds. This is the thread for discussing whether or not Channel Duplicity lets you use the SCAGtrips at range (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?592730-Invoke-Duplicity-and-the-SCAGtrips). Can we keep them separate?

Please and thank you.

---

At this point, I'd like to challenge the thread to make an effective DPR/gish build that uses neither the SCAGtrips nor Hexblade's Curse. For an extra challenge, no Paladin.

[BarneyBent]

Guys. This is the thread for fun and surprising builds. This is the thread for discussing whether or not Channel Duplicity lets you use the SCAGtrips at range (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?592730-Invoke-Duplicity-and-the-SCAGtrips). Can we keep them separate?

Please and thank you.

Fair. Didn’t mean to derail.



At this point, I'd like to challenge the thread to make an effective DPR/gish build that uses neither the SCAGtrips nor Hexblade's Curse. For an extra challenge, no Paladin.

Fighter 2/Bladesinger 14
Race: High Elf
DEX 16, INT 16, CON 14
ASI: DEX+2, DEX+2, INT+2 (or grab a headband of intellect and boost CON, take Elven Accuracy, whatever).
Fighting Style: GWF
Weapon: Double Scimitar
Base AC with no magic armor: 18 (Mage Armor)
At level 16 you’d expect to have some magic armour so boost that to probably 20 minimum.
AC bonus from Bladesong: +4
Shield: +5.
Haste: +2

Effective AC: somewhere between 22 and 31 depending on spells.

First round, Bonus action Bladesong, Haste, then make a melee attack, then Action Surge and make two melee attacks. 6d4+15 (DEX)+12 (INT) + 3 (average GWF bonus). 45 DPR before hit chance, let’s say you hit 65% of the time (pretty typical against standard AC monsters of appropriate CR), so about 31.

Subsequent rounds you make four attacks, 3 with 2d4 dice and 1 with 1d4 dice, for 7d4+20+16+3.5, about 57 DPR before hit chance, so about 37 overall.

By comparison, a straight Fighter at the same level with a Greataxe does 3d12+15+2 (GWF)=35 DPR before hit chance, so about 24. GWM adds 30 damage, but reduces hit chance to about 40%, so that’s 27. Then you’ve got the chance at a bonus action attack, let’s be generous and say 50% of the time, so another 1d12+5+1+10 = 22.5 at 40% hit chance = 9 damage half the time, so let’s add 4.5 damage to that 27 to come up with an average DPR of 31.5.

Granted, the Fighter has more HP, and against low AC enemies the GWM damage will see more use. But you’ve got a higher effective AC when you factor in Shield spell and Haste, when you get hit by something that Shield can’t stop you can instead use your reaction to reduce the damage by expending spell slots, and you’re a level 14 wizard with everything that comes with.

If you can’t use a Double Scimitar, dual wield two scimitars instead. It’s a lower DPR option (works out to be about 25 first round, 32 subsequent rounds) and limits some spellcasting after you draw the second scimitar (partially offset by a Ruby of the War Mage), but still very good. Other options include Belt of Giant Strength and PAM instead of bumping DEX quite so high.

[Klorox]

@BarneyBent, unfortunately, you can’t take Shield and Find Familiar as an AT, at least not at level 4. Only one spell can be from outside illusion and enchantment at that level.

[BarneyBent]

@BarneyBent, unfortunately, you can’t take Shield and Find Familiar as an AT, at least not at level 4. Only one spell can be from outside illusion and enchantment at that level.

Bah crap you’re right. I was thinking ahead but then scaled back the build to level 8 for simplicity and cut down the spells known to the must haves (for AT) but forgot to account for that.

I’d probably favour Find Familiar before Shield. Take Shield later when enemy hit bonuses start getting higher and that extra 5 AC becomes invaluable. You’ve still got Mirror Image if needed.

[Waazraath]

At this point, I'd like to challenge the thread to make an effective DPR/gish build that uses neither the SCAGtrips nor Hexblade's Curse. For an extra challenge, no Paladin.

Fighter (EK) 12 / (any full caster) using Shadow Blade. Make 3 attacks with a 4d8 shadow blade. Add cleric for spirtual weapon bonus action damage, Sorcerer for bonus action spells, or whisper bard for extra psychic damage....


More info here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24006675&postcount=2 (second build)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24025635&postcount=19

[AdAstra]

Fighter (EK) 12 / (any full caster) using Shadow Blade. Make 3 attacks with a 4d8 shadow blade. Add cleric for spirtual weapon bonus action damage, Sorcerer for bonus action spells, or whisper bard for extra psychic damage....


More info here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24006675&postcount=2 (second build)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24025635&postcount=19

I've always thought Eldritch Knight 11/Tempest Cleric 9 could be a fun combo. Cast Shadow Blade, wade into the fray, attacking everyone in range, then next turn, attack three more targets, and Action Surge to cast a maximized Destructive Wave, making everyone around you save for 47.5 average damage, at disadvantage for everyone you hit.

[LudicSavant]

I tend to refer to EK/caster builds that use Shadow Blade as "Soulknife" builds. They have a lot of potential. And one of the fun things about it is that there's so many combinations that work. Bard, Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer, all go well off of EK 12.

For the EK / Cleric route, the Death Domain is a stand-out choice. The Channel Divinity essentially lets you tack a considerable chunk of nigh-unmissable damage onto your already-formidable Action Surge. With 8 levels in it, you're basically boosting your Action Surge DPR by a straight 42, just from the Channel Divinity.

Other domains that fit with an EK are Tempest (mostly for the AoE options), War (lets you get a BA attack with a Shadow Blade, and turn misses into hits), and maybe Forge (less relevant if you're expecting to get magic armor at tier 3+).

As an aside, it's also possible to go BM 11 / Fullcaster 9 and end up with 5th level spells.

[Citadel97501]

Has anyone taken a look at mixing Warlock with Wizard: Warmage dips for some interesting generalist builds? I was thinking that taking that 2 level dip into wizard provides a lot for the Celestial Warlock Generalist from the 1st page of this forum, especially with a paladin in your party as that could definitely crank out some bonuses to your saves.

[bendking]

If I may throw in a request, it would be nice to see an Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight (or both) build posted :)

[Finieous]

I made an EK/Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376182-Fighter-Magic-User-Cleric) five years ago! It was great fun and devastatingly effective even before all the new toys came out. I'd build it a little differently now, but it's fantastic and painless to level up.

[GorogIrongut]

Behold Arcie the ridiculously lucky Arcane Trickster (Reinhart Coralis MacRory, I'm curious to see who knows where that comes from).

Stout Halfling for the +1 Con and Dwarf-like Poison resistance. You want to get your hands on a pair of Night Vision Goggles as soon as possible. This starts you off with Lucky, Brave, Nimble & Stout Resistance. All winners.

Point buy:
Str 8
Dex 15 +2 for racials= 17 +1 at level 4= 18
Con 13 +1 for racials= 14
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 10
8 hp
Skills: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Stealth (expertise), Arcana, Investigation & Perception (expertise)


Level 1 Rogue: 10hp, Expertise, d6 Sneak Attack & Thieves Cant
Level 2 Rogue: d8+2 HP and Cunning Action
Level 3 Rogue: d8+2 HP, 2d6 Sneak Attack & Arcane Trickster (Mage Hand Legerdemain)
Spells: Mage Hand/Light/Booming Blade & Find Familiar (unlimited spell)/Disguise Self/Sleep (soon to be swapped out)
Level 4 Rogue: d8+2 HP, Spell: Silent Image & and ASI (Squat Nimbleness gives you a +1 to dex to even it out. It bumps up your speed from 25' to 30'. It also gives you acrobatics. The group I play in rule that if you already have the skill, then you get expertise in it. If your group is different, then you have a spare skill to pass around. This also gives you advantage on any escape grappling checks. This is a racial feat in Xanathar's.
Level 5 Rogue: d8+2hp, 3d6 Sneak Attack & Uncanny Dodge
Level 6 Rogue: d8+2hp & Expertise. I would put this in Investigation and another of your choice depending on how you want to play.
Level 7 Rogue: d8+2hp, 4d6 Sneak Attack, Evasion & you get 2nd level Spells (4/2). This is an important level as your restriction to Enchantment/Illusion spells gets good with level 2 spells. You have access to Invisibility/Mirror Image/Phantasmal Force/Shadow Blade/Suggestion. Swap out Sleep and pick the two of these spells that best suit your play style.
Level 8 Rogue: d8+2hp, Another Unlimited spell, and an ASI. The unlimited spell could be Shield/Absorb Elements from level 1. It could be something as simple as Dragon's Breath, Misty Step or Web from level 2. It all depends on how you play. You have many choices with your ASI. 18 dex is respectable but 20 is even better. This character is meant to be lucky, so really there are only 2 choices. Go with the obvious and get the feat Lucky to complement your Halfling Luck. Or return to Xanathar's and help the party by getting Bountiful Luck. I don't have to explain the benefits of Lucky. It matches nicely with character and is a nice power boost. The less obvious choice is to go with Bountiful Luck. The ability to expend your reaction and save a party member from disaster can be crucial. The same goes for those moments when you have to hit and your paladin rolls a 1. This doesn't wear out unlike Lucky. You end up lending your luck to your teammates. I plan on getting both in the long run.
Level 9 Wizard: d6+2. This helps plug all those spellcasting holes from being only an Arcane Trickster. You get 3 new cantrips (Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation,Toll the Dead). You get a spell book with 6 spells in it (plugging holes with Shield, Detect Magic,Identify, Guiding Hand, Healing Elixir, Snare). Now you can cast rituals. Throw in a little Arcane Recovery and this is nice. Yes... you lose a bit of Rogue progression, but there is a pay off for the character build in just a second.
Level 10 Wizard: d6+2, 2 spells for the Spell Book (Mage Armour & Comprehend Languages). I keep picking spells that are rituals and give out of combat utility. This makes the character an insane skill monkey while simultaneously avoiding the potential pitfall of only having 14 in Intelligence. If you play this character correctly, the whole party will love you. Most parties check the wallets when they see a rogue coming. This one can steal, if necessary... but does so many things to strengthen the party without stealing the limelight.
At level 2 in Wizard, you choose to specialize in Divination. You now have access to the Portent ability. You can now roll 2 d20's and substitute them for you, your party or the opponents' rolls depending on what you roll. This means you're leaning further into the 'Lucky' concept for the character. If necessary you have the ability to cause someone to auto fail or auto succeed... for your benefit.



This is essentially the point I've taken this character to. Admittedly, the DM allowed us to start off with a free racial feat. So I already have Squat Nimbleness, Bountiful Luck and Lucky. But the pathway is pretty much the same. My intention is to ride the utility of the Rogue Class and Arcane Trickster Sub class through to level 20. I will still get 3 more ASI's, a hefty sneak attack and loads of sneaky shenanigans.

p.s. I haven't really explained all the potential tricks you can pull with the Arcane Trickster as it has been said many times elsewhere and applies equally here. The concept of the character is to get as many 'luck-bending' effects packed into one character for the benefit of yourself and the rest of the party. Throw in ritual magic and the skill monkey framework and you should be able to do something in every situation without stealing anyone else' thunder.

[Xaotiq1]

Behold Arcie the ridiculously lucky Arcane Trickster (Reinhart Coralis MacRory, I'm curious to see who knows where that comes from).

Villains By Necessity? Even if I'm wrong, it's a good read. Love these builds as I am a 3.5 grognard being brought up to speed by the rest of my group.