Custom warlock invocation for demon summoning?

[Mitchellnotes]

Ive been trying very hard to think of ways to help make the Xanathars demon summoning spells work. The issue really boils down to that there really isnt a way for the spell Not to break, unleashing a demon.

This is a shame because i'd really like for the spells to work, especially for warlocks. Would a custom invocation that banished the demon immediately when your concentration broke (unless knocked unconscious) be balanced? This would still make the spell high risk, high reward, but the risk would be lost resources instead of party havoc. This is also tempered due to warlocks only being able to use up to a fifth level slot for it.

Additionally, if that seems weak, could add that if the warlock knows a deons true name, they could summon that particular demon.

What does everyone think?

[Unoriginal]

I don't get what's your problem with the spells. How do they not work?

[Mitchellnotes]

I don't get what's your problem with the spells. How do they not work?

The demons last for 1-6 rounds after your concentration ends. There isnt a way to end the spell without that 1-6 rounds, except if the spell lasts its full hour(which seems unlikely given that the demon gets a save on each of its turns)

[JoeJ]

The demons last for 1-6 rounds after your concentration ends. There isnt a way to end the spell without that 1-6 rounds, except if the spell lasts its full hour(which seems unlikely given that the demon gets a save on each of its turns)

So don't leave the circle until it's gone. But if you wanted to be safe, you wouldn't be messing around with demons in the first place.

[Chronos]

You can stay inside the circle, but it's only big enough for one person. Hope you don't care too much about your party members.

Honestly, I think those spells mostly just exist to be used by villains.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Could institute a "reassert control" type mechanic, where the warlock could use an action or bonus action to force the demon to remake it's saving throws, as long as he's still concentrating on the spell.

Could also make some contest of wills mechanic to forcefully dismiss the demon while the spell is still active.

Make it so losing concentration is still terrible, though. Gotta have some risk with the demons.

[Sigreid]

If I were to use one of those spells I'd have the demon summoned at maximum range in the middle of my opponents and then leave. It's not a scalpel, it's a handgernade.

[Keravath]

In the summon demon spells, the demons are hostile to every other creature and will attack the nearest creature to them. They do not have any particular enmity for the caster of the spell and do not seek them out. As a result, it can be very effective in the correct circumstances and used strategically against a number of foes by summoning the demon/demons behind your opponents. Even if the caster loses control of the demon, they still attack the opponents because they are nearest. The caster just has to time dropping concentration to keep in mind that the demon will continue to attack for a few rounds after concentration drops (or after the greater demon makes their save). The summon lesser demons spell actually summons completely uncontrolled demons.

Anyway, having played in a group where the warlock summoned a greater demon to help deal with some pesky Red Wizards ... it was quite effective if a bit risky :)

However, you could add a fiend patron invocation that gives the warlock the true name of the greater demon summoned and allows the warlock some limited control over packs of lesser demons. It would be thematic and not OP since the demon can still break out of the control, just not as easily.

[Unoriginal]

Also, when you use Summon Greater Demon, you get one order that the demon can't resist. Order it to tell you its true name, so that you can control it much more easily.

[8wGremlin]

Where is the mechanic for true names in the 5e rules?

[Galithar]

Where is the mechanic for true names in the 5e rules?



At the end of each of the demon's turns, it makes a Charisma saving throw, the demon has disadvantage on this saving throw if you say its true name.


In the spell description for Summon Greater Demon. Sorry I don't have a page number!

[Unoriginal]

Also keeps in mind nothing in Summon Greater Demon prevents you from summoning a specific demon.

[No brains]

Normally keeping a demon from attacking you requires the blood of a freshly killed humanoid. That means making sure 1 person dies can save 1 person from a demon.

An invocation or feat represents and investment of part of a person's life- and a risky life lived well. If we're going by the normal value of life free from demon attacks that the spell outlines, perhaps a feat or invocation that has a chance to stop the demon's attacks would be 'balanced'.

So maybe we could get like:

"Foretelling the Dark Chaos" Requires (a reasonable warlock level)

You learn the Summon Demon spell. When a demon you summon with this spell would attack (/force to make a save?) a creature, you may force the demon to make a (Ability?) save versus your spell save DC or pick a new target. The demon is aware if this limitation.

[Man_Over_Game]

No Brains has the right idea.

Learn the Summon Lesser Demons spell without it counting against your number of known spells. If a summoned creature attacks you or an ally of yours that you can see, they must succeed on a Charisma saving throw, or they must take 2d12 Force damage and must either target another creature within range or lose their attack. You have Advantage to maintain Concentration for Summon Lesser Demons and Summon Greater Demon.