Detect Magic vs Identify

[FabulousFizban]

I am looking for the playground’s opinion here.

what are the relative pros and cons of each and which do you believe is the better spell to take if you can only take one, and why?

[JNAProductions]

I am looking for the playground’s opinion here.

what are the relative pros and cons of each and which do you believe is the better spell to take if you can only take one, and why?

Detect Magic, since you can use it to find hidden magical badness.

It is somewhat campaign dependent, though-does your DM like cursed items? Can you get Identify or its equivalent done in town, or a city? Because you can probably avoid using loot till you get home.

[Rukelnikov]

Detect Magic, since you can use it to find hidden magical badness.

It is somewhat campaign dependent, though-does your DM like cursed items? Can you get Identify or its equivalent done in town, or a city? Because you can probably avoid using loot till you get home.

Agreed.

Detect Magic will have much more use while adventuring, Identify is pretty specific, and, historically at least, you could get it done in any city.

[Torpin]

detect magic is the better spell imo here is why
detect magic lets you find all the magic item then once you are back in town you get get them identified,, furthermore it can identify ongoing magical effects, say if a floor is infact magic it gives you reason to check it and thereby discern is it infact an illusion
identify only lets you know what a magic item is if for some reason you think its magic, but say you find 6 swords and 1 of them is giving an idenification of magic, you might leave the other 5 behind, because why waste 5 spell slots trying to figure out if each sword is magic but look at that you missed a holy avenger.

in short detect magic makes it so you almost never miss a magic item and can find magic things that arent items and identify is only useful if you have some reason to believe an item is magic and can be cast by someone you pay once you are back in town

[Lord Vukodlak]

Detect Magic, since you can use it to find hidden magical badness.

It is somewhat campaign dependent, though-does your DM like cursed items? Can you get Identify or its equivalent done in town, or a city? Because you can probably avoid using loot till you get home.

Most everyone gets detect magic. If you can only take one take identify unless you’re the only spell caster in the group someone else will have detect magic.

[Chronos]

Identify can do everything Detect Magic can and more-- It just does it a lot slower. Note that it's not just for magic items: It's also for anything (including a creature) that has a spell cast on it. And if you don't even suspect that something might be magic, you won't use Detect Magic on it, either.

[Tanarii]

Identify is only slower than detect magic if you ritual cast it. Minor point, given that ritual casting it is pretty exclusively the way it's cast IMX, but still. Oops that's wrong. Not surprised though, given I never see it cast as a spell.

It can also be very useful in identifying what long term imperceptible spell is affecting a creature if you didn't see it cast (assuming XtgE rules for identifying spells). Best Detect Magic can give you is the school.

[Great Dragon]

Identify can do everything Detect Magic can and more-- It just does it a lot slower. Note that it's not just for magic items: It's also for anything (including a creature) that has a spell cast on it.

While it is possible to cast Identify on a creature to find out what spells are affecting it, there are very few times (read - none) that a non-restrained, hostile creature will allow you to touch it for a full minute while you cast the spell.

I suppose that if the creature was restrained, and the party was patient, they could wait for 1 hour and 1 minute for you to ritualistically cast Identify.

But during combat, the caster can simply cast Detect Magic one round, determine if there is any magic within 30 feet of them; then use an action the next round(s) to determine which school each item/person has. This is (usually) enough information for the Character to guess the spell, or the Player justifying an Arcana/Religion/Nature roll to 'know' what spell it is.

But then, most Players doing Casters, will not 'waste' several rounds simply figuring out if the enemy is affected by a spell during combat. Mostly because by the time they have it figured out, the fight is over.

Now, I could totally see a Hidden caster (most likely either a Rogue Arcane Trickster casting before getting close enough to be detected, or a Sorcerer [any] with Subtle Spell) using Detect Magic to figure out at least a Clue for the defenses of a Target - either a location or a person, and then returning to the Party with this information.

Plus, Upcasting Identify has no listed effect.
- I would allow 1 item per spell slot (ten total at 9th level);
But that Ritual Identify is only 1st level, and thus one item per casting.
Thus, giving an obvious benefit for casting over ritual.


And if you don't even suspect that something might be magic, you won't use Detect Magic on it, either.

IDK, I think that it really depends on how the DM runs their game, and how often the Player gains useful information from doing Detect Magic.

Like was posted by Torpin, Detect Magic can reveal the presence and type of magical traps/tricks in a Dungeon. Which means that the Warlock with the Eldritch Sight Invocation feels a lot more useful because they are helping the Party Rogue while exploring.

[Rukelnikov]

Identify can do everything Detect Magic can and more-- It just does it a lot slower. Note that it's not just for magic items: It's also for anything (including a creature) that has a spell cast on it. And if you don't even suspect that something might be magic, you won't use Detect Magic on it, either.

Yeah, but it requires already knowing what to identify.

If rock X in the wall is magical, chances are slim identify will help you.

If you finished a fight against 8 opponents, checking arms and armor alone is gonna take 3 hours, not so bad if your party need a short rest and you don't, still you could be missing magic rings, amulets, who knows.

[Tanarii]

But during combat, the caster can simply cast Detect Magic one round, determine if there is any magic within 30 feet of them; then use an action the next round(s) to determine which school each item/person has. This is (usually) enough information for the Character to guess the spell, or the Player justifying an Arcana/Religion/Nature roll to 'know' what spell it is.

It'd be arcana, and it would require the spell having a percievable effect. Just knowing there's magic and the school isn't enough.

[Chronos]

Even aside from the casting time, Identify is slower than Detect Magic by virtue of being one thing at a time.

But it's still usually enough. After most combats, you wouldn't even bother spending the slot or hour to cast Detect Magic (unless you have it at-will, which is of course an entirely different matter), because most enemies are minor enough that you don't expect them to have any magic items. And even in the encounters where they might, there's usually a pretty clear leader of the enemies, who's much more likely to have magic items than the rest of them, so you start by checking his gear.

[Lunali]

Detect Magic, since you can use it to find hidden magical badness.

It is somewhat campaign dependent, though-does your DM like cursed items? Can you get Identify or its equivalent done in town, or a city? Because you can probably avoid using loot till you get home.

It also depends on what rules your DM uses for item identification. If they aren't using the variant rules on it, anyone can get the same results as identify by taking a short rest with the item.

[Contrast]

Identify can do everything Detect Magic can and more-- It just does it a lot slower. Note that it's not just for magic items: It's also for anything (including a creature) that has a spell cast on it. And if you don't even suspect that something might be magic, you won't use Detect Magic on it, either.


you can use your action to see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic

Detect Magic is the spell you have up to detect if things are magic because it literally outlines them in a glowing aura. Its a ritual spell and lasts 10 minutes so if you're being very cautious and weren't in a rush you could literally have it up all the time.

Honestly unless you want your schtick to be being the guy who always has the answer on magic I wouldn't prepare Identify unless I knew I was going to have a specific use for it. I'd argue you're better off buying some scrolls of Identify if you really want it available in an emergency.

[nickl_2000]

Also, according to the rule books

Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item's properties, as well as how to use them. Potions are an exception; a little taste is enough to tell the taster what the potion does.

And

at the end of the short rest, the creature gains an intuitive understanding of how to activate any magical properties of the item, including any necessary command words.


If you play by these rules, you really don't need identify. You just need to take a short rest

[Pyramid Pug]

Even aside from the casting time, Identify is slower than Detect Magic by virtue of being one thing at a time.

But it's still usually enough. After most combats, you wouldn't even bother spending the slot or hour to cast Detect Magic (unless you have it at-will, which is of course an entirely different matter), because most enemies are minor enough that you don't expect them to have any magic items. And even in the encounters where they might, there's usually a pretty clear leader of the enemies, who's much more likely to have magic items than the rest of them, so you start by checking his gear.

Am I misinterpreting something here? It doesn't take an hour to ritually cast detect magic. I am a confused pug. 🤔

[Lunali]

Am I misinterpreting something here? It doesn't take an hour to ritually cast detect magic. I am a confused pug. 🤔

Might be thinking of the hour it takes to short rest and identify an item without the spell.

[JNAProductions]

Am I misinterpreting something here? It doesn't take an hour to ritually cast detect magic. I am a confused pug. 🤔

I think we've got people who think a ritual spell is +1 hour, not +10 minutes, to casting time.

So Identify would be 11 minutes, Detect Magic would be 10 minutes and 6 seconds.

[Tanarii]

After most combats, you wouldn't even bother spending the slot or hour to cast Detect Magic You know Rituals only take an extra 10 min to cast, right?


If you play by these rules, you really don't need identify. You just need to take a short rest
Identify takes 11 minutes to cast ritually, a short rest takes an hour.

Identify is still useful for detecting spells that aren't magical items on objects and creatures. Especially allies that had an unidentified hostile spell cast on them, and you're not sure it expired with the caster.

[Great Dragon]

You know Rituals only take an extra 10 min to cast, right?

I was also one of those that thought that Rituals took an hour. Thanks.

To me - One of the problems with using the Short Rest (1 hour) to non-magically identify items, is that it comes with a greater risk of a Cursed Item affecting the PC. But, this is also DM-dependant.

Identify only requires touching the item, not putting it on and/or experimenting with it.


DMG 139: Most methods of identifying items, including the identify spell, fail to reveal such a curse, although lore might hint at it.

The 5e SRD does say that Analyze Dweomer does reveal curses.

[Lunali]

To me - One of the problems with using the Short Rest (1 hour) to non-magically identify items, is that it comes with a greater risk of a Cursed Item affecting the PC. But, this is also DM-dependant.

Identify only requires touching the item, not putting it on and/or experimenting with it.

The short rest version just requires focusing on the item for the duration of the rest, it does not require experimentation and is explicitly listed as an alternative to it.

[Rukelnikov]

The 5e SRD does say that Analyze Dweomer does reveal curses.

I thought there wasn't a version of Analyze Dweomer in 5e, where is it??

[Chronos]

Yeah, my mistake was on misremembering the time for rituals. My group has some houserules on such things, and I couldn't remember just which parts were houserules and which were standard.

But you can't keep Detect Magic up all the time, at least not via ritual casting. At most, that'll keep it on for half the time: Ten minutes spent casting it, and then ten minutes concentrating on it.

[Contrast]

Yeah, my mistake was on misremembering the time for rituals. My group has some houserules on such things, and I couldn't remember just which parts were houserules and which were standard.

But you can't keep Detect Magic up all the time, at least not via ritual casting. At most, that'll keep it on for half the time: Ten minutes spent casting it, and then ten minutes concentrating on it.

But as I said if you're being cautious and aren't in a rush (say you've been hired to explore a largish crypt and there's no pressing time concern) you could pretty feasibly explore for 10 mins, then ritual cast for 10 mins, then explore for 10 mins, etc. Basically explore at half speed in exchange for constant awareness of any magical traps or enchantments in the surroundings.

Trying to replicate this with identify just doesn't work - 10 mins per floor, ceiling and wall section, advance one step, etc. This is a day per room speed (if that) instead of just half speed. It would also be substantially less effective as casting Identify on an object involves touching it for a minute...which would obv trigger any traps or the like.

[nickl_2000]

Random somewhat related question. Does the casting of identify as a ritual require concentration as you are casting it? Or could you be concentrating on another spell and ritual cast identify?

[JackPhoenix]

I thought there wasn't a version of Analyze Dweomer in 5e, where is it??

Not in any official material.


Random somewhat related question. Does the casting of identify as a ritual require concentration as you are casting it? Or could you be concentrating on another spell and ritual cast identify?

When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so.

[Great Dragon]

I thought there wasn't a version of Analyze Dweomer in 5e, where is it??


Not in any official material.

I was pressed for time, and that spell was something that I noticed on the SRD.
So, yeah. Sorry.

[Chronos]

If the "SRD" you're using contains material that isn't in the game, you need to use a different SRD. It was dandwiki, wasn't it? That's a mess of bad homebrew misidentified as official game content. Instead, try d20srd.org .

[OverLordOcelot]

Identify can do everything Detect Magic can and more-- It just does it a lot slower. Note that it's not just for magic items: It's also for anything (including a creature) that has a spell cast on it. And if you don't even suspect that something might be magic, you won't use Detect Magic on it, either.

It really, really can't. Notably, identify can't detect magic on an object without touching the object, and a lot of cursed and otherwise dangerous magic activates on touch. If you think there might be a magical trap in a hall, detect magic might find it before you step in it. Identify will require you to move into the hall and touch each section (if the DM is kind and counts a 10x10 section as an object), which will probably set off the trap. And 'a lot' slower is an understatement - if you have a room with some gems in a bag, a half a dozen statues, a crown on a skull, four pictures, a rug, and four weapons hanging on the wall, detect magic will tell you if any of the items are magical in 10 minutes if you don't have it cast. Identify will take more than a day of continuous casting, multiple days if the DM says you can only do 8 hours of casting per day without incurring exhaustion.

Also at higher levels I expect most anything in a dungeon of being magical, it's not uncommon to just say screw it and detect magic everywhere. If you have two people who can ritual cast, then you can them alternate casts so that you've got it up continuously without stopping. (One person ritual casts it, then the other starts casting. First person has ten minutes of the spell, and when it drops the second person's ritual is done so they start detecting, while the first person starts their next ritual cast).


But it's still usually enough. After most combats, you wouldn't even bother spending the slot or hour to cast Detect Magic (unless you have it at-will, which is of course an entirely different matter), because most enemies are minor enough that you don't expect them to have any magic items. And even in the encounters where they might, there's usually a pretty clear leader of the enemies, who's much more likely to have magic items than the rest of them, so you start by checking his gear.

Aside from the fact that detect magic is one action, or ten minutes as a ritual cast, checking his gear with detect magic is one single cast to see if any of his gear is magic while identify is one cast per item. Even if it did take an hour to cast detect magic, it would be one hour to check all of his gear, while it would take days to identify every object on his body. If you only check things like weapons and armor, then you'll miss magical rings, boots, bags, cloaks, etc. Detect magic will find if there are magic items on anyone in the group in negligible time, while identify will require you to stop at least overnight and maybe for a week after each encounter to do the same thing.

[Great Dragon]

If the "SRD" you're using contains material that isn't in the game, you need to use a different SRD. It was dandwiki, wasn't it? That's a mess of bad homebrew misidentified as official game content. Instead, try d20srd.org .

I can't remember which SRD it was now, since I just did a google-search for "5e D&D Cursed Items". For the most part, I normally stick to the Hypertext SRD - but like I said, I was pressed for time.

@OverLordOcelot very well put.
For my Games, I don't encourage Players to spend lots of Time in the Dungeon.
Every 10-30 minutes (usually in game time, but especially if this time passes IRL) can trigger an encounter, since monsters (especially Intelligent/Sentient) don't just stay in their room(s) and wait for the PCs to open the door!!

And every day that the Party spends in Downtime, means that the Intelligent Monsters can change things in the Dungeon. BBEGs will almost always change things up, especially if they notice that there were intruders.

---
On the subject of continual magical "Detection" effects - IMO it would just be easier to either Find/Buy - or make - a Magic Item that did this. So, Glasses of Detect Magic, and Goggles of See Invisibility. Make them be variations of the Goggles of Night (uncommon), as far as Rarity and Cost. They already have a Gem of Seeing (rare), so something like Raistlin's Glasses of True Seeing would be at least Very Rare. I could allow even Goggles of Devil's Sight as a Rare Item.
Plus, the DM can make these Items a Reward of a Quest.

[furby076]

Detect Magic is a poor mans version of See Invisble :)

[JackPhoenix]

Detect Magic is a poor mans version of See Invisble :)

It's not. "If you sense magic in this way, you can use your action to see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic"

[greenstone]

But during combat, the caster can simply cast Detect Magic one round, determine if there is any magic within 30 feet of them;
To which the answer is always going to be "yes". Unless the party has no magic items and no spells up, which is very unlikely. :-)

[Great Dragon]

To which the answer is always going to be "yes". Unless the party has no magic items and no spells up, which is very unlikely. :-)

Heh. I just kinda figured that the caster would overlook Party Members they knew had items/spells, and targeting only 'others' that were visible, since like JackPhoenix stated, Detect Magic won't reveal Invisible creatures.

[Yuroch Kern]

I am looking for the playground’s opinion here.

what are the relative pros and cons of each and which do you believe is the better spell to take if you can only take one, and why?

Well, as far as I'm aware, Identify is a Bard or Wizard spell, so that makes it only those classes choice typically. Bards will usually have so much lore that they can probably guess the item after detecting it, and Wizards can just have both in their book. Detect Magic is still a better choice, seeing as how Identify costs 100 gp a pop and takes a long time for only one thing, whereas Detect Magic is only the slot and LOOK AT ALL THE LOOT! WHEEEE, I TRY ON ALL THE THINGS! "No", says the Bard,"That nose-ring is cursed. I read about it in the forbidden Guide".

[Great Dragon]

Yes, but Arcana and History won't reveal exact functions, charges or command words. Which takes only a minute for the spell, 11 minutes for the ritual, and an hour to do without the spell.

"No", says the Bard,"That nose-ring is cursed. I read about it in the forbidden Guide".
Which could be true.
Or maybe the Bard wanted the Nose-Ring of Invisibility for themselves.😋
-----
That 100 gp an item is a bit of a killer.
For my game, I allow one extra item per spell slot level over 1st, max ten.

[nickl_2000]

-----
That 100 gp an item is a bit of a killer.
For my game, I allow one extra item per spell slot level over 1st, max ten.

Re-read it, it isn't 100gp an item. It's "a pearl worth at least 100gp and an owl feather." It says absolutely nothing about the item being consumed. You by the pearl once and use it over and over again.

[OverLordOcelot]

Well, as far as I'm aware, Identify is a Bard or Wizard spell, so that makes it only those classes choice typically. Bards will usually have so much lore that they can probably guess the item after detecting it, and Wizards can just have both in their book. Detect Magic is still a better choice, seeing as how Identify costs 100 gp a pop and takes a long time for only one thing, whereas Detect Magic is only the slot and LOOK AT ALL THE LOOT! WHEEEE, I TRY ON ALL THE THINGS! "No", says the Bard,"That nose-ring is cursed. I read about it in the forbidden Guide".

Knowledge clerics get identify, as do warlocks with pact of the tome and book of secrets, and anyone who takes wizard ritual casting. Also identify doesn't actually cost 100 a pop, it's a one time cost. That is significant for a low-level wizard, however - you're looking at paying 125 gold or giving up another first level spell and to have both, and another 100 gold for the component for identify.

[Great Dragon]

Re-read it, it isn't 100gp an item. It's "a pearl worth at least 100gp and an owl feather." It says absolutely nothing about the item being consumed. You by the pearl once and use it over and over again.

Aha. Once again, 3x memories creep in, where the Pearl was crushed and mixed up with the steeped feather and consumed by the caster.

Being limited to my phone means not always having access to reliable info. Thanks.

@OverLordOcelot thanks, as well.

[Rukelnikov]

Aha. Once again, 3x memories creep in, where the Pearl was crushed and mixed up with the steeped feather and consumed by the caster.

Being limited to my phone means not always having access to reliable info. Thanks.

@OverLordOcelot thanks, as well.

We did the same for the first couple adventures until one of my party relaised its not consumed :P

[Yuroch Kern]

Aha. Once again, 3x memories creep in, where the Pearl was crushed and mixed up with the steeped feather and consumed by the caster.

Being limited to my phone means not always having access to reliable info. Thanks.

@OverLordOcelot thanks, as well.

Oopsie. Yep, totally blitzed that one. Ahhhhhh, pearl and feather juice really used to hit the spot for secret knowledge, neh?

[Great Dragon]

Oopsie. Yep, totally blitzed that one. Ahhhhhh, pearl and feather juice really used to hit the spot for secret knowledge, neh?

🤣

Did we cover everything?

[Pyramid Pug]

We did the same for the first couple adventures until one of my party relaised its not consumed :P

Eeyup, guilty as charged, my party and DM did the same thing 😂

[Great Dragon]

@Yuroch Kern

@Pyramid Pug

It's so nice to know I'm not alone!!!