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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next custom melee spellcasting class (Grey Mage)



Jokehr
2019-03-23, 11:17 PM
I'm looking for critiques on a custom class I've made. This is the first custom class I've made for any edition of D&D and I have yet to properly balance it beyond speculation, seeing as I live so far from other people who play D&D. Here's hoping I did well enough on the theorizing part where the class is fun without being over or underpowered. Feel free to use this as you see fit, so long as you credit this class to me. I put a lot of work into it.

Here is the google doc containing the full class description and spell list (including spells from Xanathar's)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dHpsjA5HUd49xun96fqKxQG1d7MinaigJubVcPZSgms/edit?usp=sharing
and here is the google sheet containing the grey mage table referenced in the doc.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oekbTSTWu0BCkhU2JT4kugqvGx6RWGNfVxrPHejlkvs/edit?usp=sharing

Jokehr
2019-03-24, 06:33 PM
For those who are less inclined to use the links posted above, I have copied the information here and tried to organize it in an easy to read manner.

Grey Mage
An old hill dwarf sits, meditating in the desert, grey cloak sheltering his face from the sun. His mind is clear and he is perfectly attuned to the world around him. He calmly stands up, takes two steps to the left, and sits back down before the earth erupts where he was sitting mere seconds ago and a bulette stands there instead, confused at how it missed its meal.
A human in a billowing grey cape stares down a horde of raiders. She unsheathes her rapier, gemstones glistening along the guard and walks through the cacophony at remarkable speed, blade humming with magical energies. As she stops, she takes a breath to regain her composure before strolling back into the fray, untouched.
A halfling wearing sun bleached leathers balances atop a tree, accosted by two giant eagles. She sends translucent shards of energy at one as she fends off the other with a jewel encrusted dagger. As the first eagle falls, it splits the tree the halfling was standing on, but she’s already jumped to another one yards away, maintaining her perfect balance.

Quelling the Storm Within
Grey mages look at the Ki that monks are known for manipulating and parse it further between two equal and opposite forces. They call these forces light and dark magic and weave it in a manner akin to sorcerers, taking the power from within and projecting it without. They learn to control these energies through introspective meditation and physical training, allowing them to cast spells and empower their physical abilities when they have achieved a state of balance.

The Order of the Grey
Grey mages originated at the crossroads between vastly different societies, creating their philosophies by studying those of monks, paladins, sorcerers, and druids. They train in the outskirts of the trade routes where they gained their knowledge, just out of sight of distractions to their training. Due to their origins in adopting practices from far flung peoples moving through their lands, they are welcoming to all those who wish to join and contribute to their order, though not all have the constitution to maintain their training and truly take the first steps into becoming a grey mage.
Over all, grey mages admire balance in all things. Just as you cannot create something without destroying something else, the act of destroying something creates something new in its place. Similarly, being fully ordered stagnates society as nothing new will break the norm and facilitate progress. Leaving oneself in total chaos hinders deliberate action, causing just another route to stagnation. Only through balance of these four forces may people and society as a whole progress.

Creating a Grey Mage
As you make your grey mage character, think of how they wish to put their training to use. Are they mentors, seeking to impart what they have learned to all who would listen or are they more akin to agents of balance, personally righting the imbalances they see in the world? How did your character find their way into the order of the grey mages? What aspect of their teachings spoke to your character?
Consider what led you to leave the company of your fellow grey mages. Did you leave them on good terms? Perhaps you were a traveler who found your way into their company on the way to complete some other important errand and simply parted company as a matter of course. Were there any individuals within the order you regret leaving behind? There may be some that you would rather never see again.
Owing to their veneration of balance in all things, grey mages tend toward neutrality in one form or another, leaning most heavily toward Lawful Neutral thanks to the rigorous training and meditation they undertake in the perfection of their art.

Quick build:
You can make a grey mage quickly by following these suggestions. First, Wisdom should be your highest ability score, followed by Strength or Dexterity. Second, choose the Outlander background.


Class Features
As a Grey Mage, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d8 per grey mage level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per grey mage level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: Light Armor
Weapons: Daggers, Darts, Scimitars, Shortswords
Tools: Jewelers’ tools

Saving Throws: Wisdom, Constitution
Skills: Choose two skills from Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, Insight, Medicine, or Perception.


Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background.
(a) a shortsword with a gem worth 5gp inlaid in the hilt or (b) a scimitar with a gem worth 5gp inlaid in the hilt.
(a) a dagger or (b) 5 darts
(a) an Explorer’s Pack or (b) a Priest’s Pack
Leather armor and jewelers’ tools

Spellcasting:
You know that all living things are a combination of light and dark. By controlling and balancing these forces within yourself, you can harness them to your will. See chapter 10 of the Player’s Handbook for the general rules of spellcasting and the end of this document for the grey mage light and dark spell lists.

Cantrips:
At first level, you know two cantrips of your choice from the grey mage spell list. You learn additional grey mage cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Grey Mage table.

Spell Slots:
The Grey Mage table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your light and dark spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these light spells, you must expend a light spell slot of the spell’s level or higher. To cast one of these dark spells, you must expend a dark spell slot of the spell’s level or higher.
For example, if you know the 1st-level dark spell burning hands and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level dark spell slot available, you can cast burning hands using either slot.

Spells Known at 1st Level and Higher:
You know one 1st-level spell of your choice from the grey mage light spell list and one 1st level spell of your choice from the grey mage dark spell list.
The Light Spells Known column of the Grey Mage table shows when you learn more grey mage light spells of your choice. The Dark Spells Known column of the Grey Mage table shows when you learn more grey mage dark spells of your choice. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new light spell of 1st or 2nd level and one new dark spell of 1st or 2nd level.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the grey mage light spells you know and/or one of the grey mage dark spells you know and replace it with another spell from the appropriate grey mage spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Spellcasting Ability:
Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your grey mage spells. The power of your spells comes from your understanding of self amid the world around you. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a grey mage spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.


Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier


Spellcasting Focus:
You can use a finesse weapon you are proficient in (found in chapter 5 of the Player’s Handbook) as a spellcasting focus for your grey mage spells so long as you are not wielding a second weapon or shield in your off-hand. This weapon must have a gem worth at least 5gp inlaid into its hilt.

Refocus:
At 1st level, you have a number of balance points as shown in the Balance Points column of the Grey Mage table. Whenever you have the same number of light and dark spell slots of the same level available, you may spend 1 balance point to roll (2D4) and add the result to a failed Save, or Skill Check. If you spend 2 or more balance points to use this feature on the same Save, or Skill Check multiple times, take the highest result. You regain all lost balance points at the end of a long rest.
This feature improves at 7th level, allowing you to add half your class level to your roll.

Dedication
When choosing this class, you make a dedication to its magics. You may not multiclass into a class or non-grey-mage subclass that provides a spell list, except for warlock, nor may you multiclass into grey mage from any of these classes. This is to preserve control over the light and dark energies within your spiritual form. (This is because I don’t know how to balance the light and dark spell lists with combined spell lists. Warlock just adds its own features to yours.)

Neutral Magic:
At second level, you learn a spell from the neutral spell list found below. This spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots. You learn another neutral spell at 11th, and 17th level.
Neutral spells may be cast once per day and do not consume a spell slot. They are regained at the end of a long rest. They may be cast more times than this by expending an appropriately leveled light or dark spell slot, though they do not count as a light or dark spell for the purposes of class features.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the neutral spells you know and replace it with another neutral spell that you could learn at that level.

Grey Archetype:
At 3rd level, you choose an archetype that you emulate within the Order of the Grey. Choose Vanguard or Mystic, both detailed at the end of the class description. The archetype you choose grants you features at 3rd level and again at 6th, 15th, and 18th level.

Quick Blade:
Starting at 6th level, you may take a melee weapon attack action as an action and/or a bonus action.

Restore Balance:
At 9th level, you may regain up to half you max Balance Points at the end of a short rest through meditation.

Transmute Energies:
At 13th level, once per day you may consume one light spell slot of 2nd level or greater to regain one expended dark spell slot of a level equal to half the consumed light spell slot or lower as a free action. Alternatively, you may consume one dark spell slot of 2nd level or greater to regain one expended light spell slot of a level equal to half the consumed dark spell slot or lower as a free action. You gain the ability to do this again at the conclusion of a long rest.

One with the Grey:
At 20th level you have completely mastered the forces of light and dark within yourself. You may choose to convert any damage from a grey mage light spell or a grey mage dark spell to force damage. All force damage you deal is increased by 2.
You may also use dark spell slots to cast light spells and vice versa. Any damage dealt by a spell cast this way becomes force damage.

Grey Mage Archetypes
Grey mages share a common philosophy, that by balancing the tumultuous forces found within oneself, one can gain a greater understanding of themselves and the world around them. Among the grey, however, there are various ideas on what way is the best to achieve this balance and how to project it out into the world. Your choice in archetype reflects what your technique is when balancing the light and dark within you.

Mystic:
Mystics are members of the Grey Order who gain increased understanding of their place in the world through dedicated introspection. In enacting order in their thoughts and limiting their emotions, they gain startling control over the forces of grey magic. This allows them to drink from their stores of energy more deeply and unleash their magic in rapid succession.

Advanced Arcane Training:
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in arcane spellcasting foci and can use them for your grey mage light, dark, and neutral spells. You learn one spell from the grey mage light spell list that you have spell slots for and one spell from the grey mage dark spell list that you have spell slots for.
You learn another spell from the grey mage dark and grey mage light spell lists that you have spell slots for at 6th, 15th, and 18th level.

Introspective Meditation:
At 3rd level, your introspection has allowed you to recover some of the magical energies you have lost over the course of the day. Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can choose expended spell slots to recover. The spell slots may be either light or dark and can have a combined level that is equal to or less than half your grey mage level (rounded up), and none of the slots can be 6th level or higher.
For example, if you’re a 4th-level grey mage, you can recover up to two levels worth of spell slots. You can recover either a 2nd-level light or dark spell slot, two 1st-level light or dark spell slots, or one 1st-level light spell slot and one 1st-level dark spell slot.

Empowered Grey Magics:
Starting at 6th level, when you cast a light, dark, or neutral spell from the grey mage spell list that deals damage, you may add your Wisdom modifier force damage to it.

Lingering Magics:
At 15th level your grey mage spells of 1st level or higher gain lingering effects. After casting a spell from the grey mage light spell list, a creature within 30ft. of you may gain 1d6 temporary hit points. After casting a spell from the grey mage dark spell list, designate a creature within 30ft. of you. Add 1d6 necrotic, fire, lightning, or ice damage to the next damage roll they make.

Balancing Forces:
Upon reaching 18th level, you may instantly balance the forces within you.
Balance Light. As a bonus action, after you cast a spell from the grey mage dark spell list, you may expend a light spell slot of the same level to heal one creature within 30ft. of you 1d4 x the level of the spell slot consumed.
Balance Dark. As a bonus action, after you cast a spell from the grey mage light spell list, you may expend a dark spell slot of the same level to deal one creature within 30ft. of you 1d8 x the level of the spell slot necrotic, fire, lightning, or ice damage.

Vanguard:
Vanguards within the Grey Order find balance by training their bodies to perfection. They don’t weave and dodge the way a rogue or monk might, but rather have a sense of where attacks are going to land and avoid them by remaining in just the right spot. This also allows them to move unimpeded through combat, often seeming to appear out of nowhere before striking with their magically imbued weapon of choice.

Advanced Weapons Training:
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in two melee weapons of your choice. You may use either of these weapons as a spellcasting focus for your grey mage light and dark spells so long as it contains a gem worth at least 5gp inlaid in it and you are not wielding a shield or second weapon in your off hand.

Improved Balance:
At 3rd level, you learn balance techniques that are fueled by your balance points. You gain a number of balance points equal to your Constitution modifier to reflect your ability to better maintain your focus. You may only spend balance points if you have the same number of light and dark spell slots of the same level.
Balance Techniques. You learn two balance techniques of your choice, which are detailed under “Balance Techniques” below. Many of these affect your movement on the battlefield and you can use more than one balance technique as you wish, so long as you spend the appropriate number of balance points detailed in the balance technique’s description.
You learn one additional balance technique of your choice at 6th, 15th, and 18th level.

Harmonic Reserves:
At 6th level you can dip into the energies that you have curated within your body, using them to shield you from harm. When you would take damage from any source, you may use your reaction to gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 2d4 plus your Constitution modifier. You may not take this action again until you have finished a short or long rest.

Force of Balance:
Starting when you reach 15th level, your weapon hums with the power of your soul. Gain the Soul Filled Blade balance technique. If you already have it, you may choose a balance technique to replace it with. You do not need to spend balance points to use Soul Filled Blade and you add your proficiency bonus to the damage as well, but you still must have the same number of grey mage light and dark spell slots of the same level available to execute this technique.

Perfect Concentration:
When you reach 18th level, you gain advantage on constitution saves for the purposes of maintaining a spell’s concentration. You also become immune to mind altering effects such as being charmed or frightened.

Balance Techniques:
The balance techniques are presented in alphabetical order.

Balanced Throw. As an action, you may spend 3 balance points to grant your melee weapon the Thrown (20/60) property or, if the weapon has the Heavy property, the Thrown (15/45) property and make a ranged attack with it. If this attack hits, it deals an additional 1d4 force damage. Whether or not this attack hits, the weapon loses the Thrown property at the conclusion of the action.
Focused Attack. As part of a melee weapon attack, you may spend 1 balance point to add 2d4 to the weapon attack roll.
Grey Lunge. As part of a melee weapon attack on your turn, you may spend 1 balance point to increase your reach for that attack by 5 ft.
Harmonic Shield. When you would take damage from any source, you may use your reaction to spend 1 balance point. If you do so, you may reduce that damage by 1d6. You may only use this balance technique once per round.
Incredible Acrobatics. As an action, you may spend 1 balance point to double your jump height and distance and gain resistance to damage from falling for the next minute.
Pefectly Attuned. As an action, you may spend 1 balance point to gain blindsight out to 10ft. for one minute.
Project Balance. As a bonus action, you may spend 1 balance point to give the next attack targeting a target of your choice other than yourself within 5ft. of you disadvantage.
Soul Filled Blade. When making a melee weapon attack, you may spend 1 balance point to add your Wisdom modifier force damage to your damage roll.
Stillness of Body. As an action, you may spend 1 balance point to gain advantage on stealth checks for the next minute.
Sureness of Step. You may spend 2 balance points to take the dodge or disengage action as a bonus action.
Swiftness of Balance. When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 2 balance points to move up to 5ft. and make a melee weapon attack against a creature within range as a free action. This movement does not provoke attack of opportunity.
Uncanny Positioning. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you may use your reaction to spend 4 balance points to instead take no damage if you succeed on a saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Seeing as I would need to reformat the spell lists and Grey Mage Table to post them here, especially since I can't attach images yet, You would need to look at the bottom of the doc for the spell lists and the sheet for the Grey Mage Table. Both can be found in the original post, but I'll repost them here, just in case.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oekbTSTWu0BCkhU2JT4kugqvGx6RWGNfVxrPHejlkvs/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dHpsjA5HUd49xun96fqKxQG1d7MinaigJubVcPZSgms/edit?usp=sharing

Garfunion
2019-03-24, 06:43 PM
I’ve looked over the base class, it is overpowered and confusing.

Your description of the class reminds me more of a monk with some magic.

Where did you get the idea (other than a Star Wars Jedi) and what are you really trying to create?

Rukelnikov
2019-03-24, 10:51 PM
I've always liked Grey Jedi, and the idea of the double list and casting is pretty good.

However this is extremely overpowered.

For starters you gave the class 2 good saving throws (Dex, Con, Wis are the good ones, note how every class only gets one of those).

You also gave them separate casting slots (which is already kinda contrary to how 5e works), which by looking at them always have more slots than a comparable full caster. And they get even more by means of the Neutral Magic feature.

Moreover their spell list is very solid, and you gave them many spells which are normally only available to a single class and maybe a subclass (Spiritual Weapon, Moonbeam, Shadow of Moil, etc)

Tbh I didn't read the subclasses, but if they are in line with this, it is very very OP

Consider either making the separate lists Half caster ones (like the Ranger or Paladin), or using the full caster one, with a restriction or bonus on the light/dark spells than can be cast. For instance casting a Light spell after a dark one get a bonus (and vice versa), or after casting 2 dark/light spells you cant cast another one from there until you cast an opposed one (I prefer giving bonuses to incentive how the class works rather than restrictions though)

Jokehr
2019-03-25, 12:53 AM
Truth be told, the idea came more from the Final Fantasy Red Mage than the grey jedi, but after a bit of looking into it I decided that some of it fell in line with that idea and put small things here and there as a nod to possible parallels people might make.

What I'm trying to create is a mobile melee caster who dips between divine and arcane.

I wanted to give them access to these spells, but I wanted to have some way to encourage players to flip between the two alternatively rather than just double down in light or dark. Encouraging the behavior I wanted players to engage in via the mechanics felt better than putting down harsh stipulations that were difficult to explain. Below is theOriginally, I was going to use a normal spell list and define radiant, water, wind, and earth as light and necrotic, fire, lightning, and ice as dark, rewarding them with what were essentially Ki points for flipping back and forth. Then they'd have neutral spells that wouldn't get in the way of their switching. To make up for the versatility of the class and the proficiency in melee, I was going to give them a very limited spell list. By running it by my one power gamer friend (let's call him Goose), we very quickly realized this class was far too complicated. On top of that, I didn't have an idea in mind for how the subclass would split.

That's when goose suggested light v. dark spell slots. This seemed a simple way to keep track of light and dark spells. After playing with the thought in my head, I came up with the balance point prerequisite. No longer would you generate balance, my original idea. You'd maintain it and be rewarded for doing so. With two spell lists, this would be easier to track. The problem was, this required an even number of spell slots and anything beyond 5th-level slots maxes at 1. I thought I'd just limit the options because there wasn't overflow between the two lists. I took the number of spells sorcerers had access to and split it in half, usually resulting with them having access to slightly fewer spells. I justified the extra spell slots with the sorcerer's ability to turn sorcery points into spell slots.

Separately, I remembered hearing D&D Beyond mention that they give one simpler subclass and one more complex subclass. I realized that my use of balance points that I loved so much would be complex, so I based them heavily off the complex fighter, the battlemaster. This lent itself to the quick fencer I had in mind and became the vanguard. The Mystic was me trying to think of what was simpler than the balance system. I decided that allowing the player to essentially alternate the spells between light and dark on the same turn would be the cheap and dirty way to encourage a player to maintain balance, but I couldn't let it be "Instantly cast two spells" because that would be GROSSLY overpowered. They already had the potential to gain more spell slots than any of the other classes. (I did make sure early on not to give them new spell slots until other full casters already had 2 of that type. That method just stopped working at 6th-level spells.) Hence the pseudo-spell things that 15th and 18th get.

Con saves came mostly because I wanted their attribute order to be a spell-casting ability, a melee ability, and some staying capability. I debated giving them a D6 Hit Dice, seeing as I was thinking of them becoming a dodge tank that didn't have a high base AC, but I confused sorcerer and warlock hit dice with eachother, which I'm only realizing while typing this.

Slowly, this class has been getting slightly stronger over its creation due in part to Goose's claims of it being under powered and his very convincing rhetoric (and my own complacency). I've been feeling some disagreement with that and I'm glad to see those thoughts are not in poor company. I think you're absolutely right with the idea of toning them down into a half-caster.