New and interesting things to do with Advantage/Disadvantage

[Theodoxus]

I was reading through the 4E Psionic Power book, and came across an interesting feat, and I gotta say... mind blown.

Centered Intuition
Prerequisite: 11th level, monk, Centered Breath class feature
Benefit: When you roll initiative, you can roll twice and use either result. If you roll the same number both times, you gain a +5 bonus to your initiative check.

Now, besides the fact that 4E has Advantage/Disadvantage ALL over the place, with that wonky description, I never ever thought about granting a boon (or alternative punishment for disadvantage) when you roll the exact same number!

And rolling the same comes up at least once a session. I had a poor rogue player once roll double 1's on his Elvenkind cloak boosted stealth check... bad day for him!

But I digress - anyone else think of doing something like this? This specific feat is kinda like super advantage if you roll the same number (and I'm definitely incorporating it into my games) - but I'm sure there are other things this kind of thing would work for...

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

There's an example of this in the UA. I think it's Fell handed? (The axe/hammer feat). Basically if you roll at advantage to hit, if the lower of the two numbers also hits, it knocks the enemy prone. Conversely, if you roll at disadvantage, but the higher number would've hit, the enemy still takes damage equal to your strength mod.

Always thought it was a cool idea incorporating the extra roll.

[R.Shackleford]

I was reading through the 4E Psionic Power book, and came across an interesting feat, and I gotta say... mind blown.

Centered Intuition
Prerequisite: 11th level, monk, Centered Breath class feature
Benefit: When you roll initiative, you can roll twice and use either result. If you roll the same number both times, you gain a +5 bonus to your initiative check.

Now, besides the fact that 4E has Advantage/Disadvantage ALL over the place, with that wonky description, I never ever thought about granting a boon (or alternative punishment for disadvantage) when you roll the exact same number!

And rolling the same comes up at least once a session. I had a poor rogue player once roll double 1's on his Elvenkind cloak boosted stealth check... bad day for him!

But I digress - anyone else think of doing something like this? This specific feat is kinda like super advantage if you roll the same number (and I'm definitely incorporating it into my games) - but I'm sure there are other things this kind of thing would work for...

1: 4e Psionic are awesome.

2: Try giving players advantage all the time. When they have disadvantage they roll 1d20 instead of 2d20. Enemies have normal rules. A lot of fun!

3: 4e psionics is still awesome.

[Aquillion]

2: Try giving players advantage all the time. When they have disadvantage they roll 1d20 instead of 2d20. Enemies have normal rules. A lot of fun!Doesn't this devalue any abilities whose purpose is to grant advantage, though? Or does advantage give you a third die or something?

[R.Shackleford]

Doesn't this devalue any abilities whose purpose is to grant advantage, though? Or does advantage give you a third die or something?

You can do a third die or a +3 to the roll.

Though, for the most part, it doesn't matter if features are devalued as people tend to take less optimized features due to being able to hit easier. I think we even made it where you could give up youe advantage to impose disadvantage on a savong throw... Basically... Players were playing even more of an 80s acrion movie than they already are.

A lot of ability checks were rolled.

[Chronos]

Quoth MikeRoxTheBoat:

Conversely, if you roll at disadvantage, but the higher number would've hit, the enemy still takes damage equal to your strength mod.
Bad mechanic. It's the same problem as with lucky disadvantage being interpreted as super-advantage, though not as extreme: It means that if you're in a situation where all you need is to do a little damage, then it's to your benefit to make the attack with your eyes closed. Outside of explicitly mystical things like "Use the Force, Luke", the rules should never reward players for deliberately giving themselves disadvantage.

[R.Shackleford]

Bad mechanic. It's the same problem as with lucky disadvantage being interpreted as super-advantage, though not as extreme: It means that if you're in a situation where all you need is to do a little damage, then it's to your benefit to make the attack with your eyes closed. Outside of explicitly mystical things like "Use the Force, Luke", the rules should never reward players for deliberately giving themselves disadvantage.

Actually, players specifically putting their characters in a state of disadvantage is good for the game.

Roleplaying the attack as "I run toward the wall, jump off, and attack the creature with my hammer" brings that extra flavor.

"I close my eyes and let my honed senses take control... I can hear my opponent's heart beat". No magic involved, this character just thinks he can "use the force" and is roleplayed thusly.

I throw my axe so it hits the ground, ricocheting off the ground, so that it hits the enemy (this is ablegit real world thing, btw).

Adding fluff into the game that would give you disadvantage, but still being effective in some way, is great for the game. The game can already get stale due to the vastly limited combat mechanics for weapon users.

[Aquillion]

Bad mechanic. It's the same problem as with lucky disadvantage being interpreted as super-advantage, though not as extreme: It means that if you're in a situation where all you need is to do a little damage, then it's to your benefit to make the attack with your eyes closed. Outside of explicitly mystical things like "Use the Force, Luke", the rules should never reward players for deliberately giving themselves disadvantage.I'm sure you know this, but Lucky does trump disadvantage (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats/) in that "super-advantage" way; there's a very specific Sage Advice column about it.

I don't think it's a problem. It is pseudo-mystical, so "I'm going to throw caution to the wind, close my eyes, and rely on my unnatural luck" seems reasonable to me. And it's not something players would want to do constantly (because you're semi-committing to spending a luck point before you roll by making it very likely you'll fail without one), so it's only likely to happen at key dramatic moments where "use the force, Luke" makes sense.

Besides, it gives the Lucky feat more interesting thematics, which IMHO is the biggest problem with that feat otherwise.

Although Jeremy Crawford has said (https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/600415618114818048) that closing your eyes to intentionally give yourself disadvantage is a no-go.

[Theodoxus]

You can do a third die or a +3 to the roll.

Though, for the most part, it doesn't matter if features are devalued as people tend to take less optimized features due to being able to hit easier. I think we even made it where you could give up youe advantage to impose disadvantage on a savong throw... Basically... Players were playing even more of an 80s acrion movie than they already are.

A lot of ability checks were rolled.

One thing I stole from Pathfinder 2.0 was using the "+10 Rule", where if your attack hits the target AC by +10 or more, it's a crit. It's made crits a lot more common (I quickly decided to adopt the 4E crit rule of max damage instead of doubling dice, just to speed up the game.)

Not sure I want to go so far as to give everyone advantage... especially since I'm not using saving throws (except to end effects) - so every attack is rolled... but the +10 to crit kinda covers it.

[Pex]

You'll need to stress that you still have to succeed on rolling double with advantage or still fail on rolling with disadvantage before the extra effect takes place. It's long odds, but someone rolling with disadvantage can still roll double 20 or double 15 and succeed at the task so it's unfair to punish them for it. Even a minor set back is unfair. Likewise someone rolling with advantage but rolls double 10 or double 1 and failing doesn't mean they succeed.

[Chronos]

I know what Sage Advice says about lucky and disadvantage, but I also know what the rules in the book say, and what makes sense. Given that Sage Advice disagrees with both of the latter two, I know which way I'll choose.

[R.Shackleford]

One thing I stole from Pathfinder 2.0 was using the "+10 Rule", where if your attack hits the target AC by +10 or more, it's a crit. It's made crits a lot more common (I quickly decided to adopt the 4E crit rule of max damage instead of doubling dice, just to speed up the game.)

Not sure I want to go so far as to give everyone advantage... especially since I'm not using saving throws (except to end effects) - so every attack is rolled... but the +10 to crit kinda covers it.

4e crit rules are so much better in many ways. Not only is it faster but players will do more damage and not risk rolling a 1 on their critical damage.

I've seen plenty of critical hit deal 2 damage + ability score modifier.

[Bjarkmundur]

Somewhere around here there's a complete overhaul on the weapon feats that ALL use the clause

"If you make an attack with advantage where both rolls would result in a hit you can..."

I loved it, and felt it really added something to the game.