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DrBloodbathMC
2019-03-24, 09:47 PM
There's no active thread on this so lets get to talking, what are you DnD Head canons?

For me, Nerul has a Jamaican accent, you can thank Grim for that one.

Particle_Man
2019-03-24, 10:13 PM
The incarnate had the first magic and the binder will have the last one (3.5).

Millstone85
2019-03-25, 10:39 AM
Ghaunadaur can restore the intellect of oozes as easily as it took that intellect away.
That Which Lurks, true to its name, is just lying low on the faith-o-meter until the time is right.

SleepyShadow
2019-03-26, 10:12 AM
St. Cuthbert talks like Sam Elliot.

Grey Elves are the inefficient police of Wildspace.

Hobgoblins are awesome tacticians.

A multiclassed wizard's familiar will chastise them for losing caster levels.

Shifters love frybread.

LibraryOgre
2019-03-26, 10:47 AM
D&D is not medieval. D&D is a western in medieval drag.

RedMage125
2019-03-26, 12:26 PM
D&D is not medieval. D&D is a western in medieval drag.

This made me lol.

My headcanon:
Vecna's phylactery is the Sword Of Kas. Think about it, Vecna was an epic-level lich by all accounts, and he made the sword for Kas because he trusted him. A FIghter, even a Vampire one, being able to permanently maim a lich of Vecna's caliber is absurd. So why then, did a sword that Vecna crafted manage to cut through all of his magical defenses and cut off his hand and gouge out his eye? Simple, because none of Vecna's magical defneses worked against the sword, because the sword contained Vecna's soul, and all those protection spells considered the soul a part of the caster who placed them. The reason the Sword has intelligence and hates Vecna and all his servants? Because Vecna's ego was so great. The soul in the sword resents that it is not in possession of all of Vecna's power and all that he is, believing itself to be as powerful and deserving, if not more so.

Vizzerdrix
2019-03-26, 02:39 PM
Rust monsters purr like big kittens/crickets when you give them belly rubs and chin scratches, and are kept as pets by dwarves.

All elven gods are evil. They just pretend to not be.

Wizard have fairs to settle their arguments with games like Summoners chess, cantrip obstacle course, and familiar shows.

Millstone85
2019-03-26, 03:17 PM
Modrons speak like minions and slaadi speak like rabbids.

SirAshley
2019-03-26, 04:28 PM
I have always been a fan of the "Pelor: the Burning Hate" theory, to the point of currently playing a Blackguard of Pelor in my current 3.5 campaign.

KillianHawkeye
2019-03-26, 06:42 PM
I always like the idea that the vampire's weakness to a wooden stake was misinformation spread by the vampires themselves.

Because in 3.5, vampires have damage reduction that is only overcome by silver weapons, so a small piece of wood shouldn't be a threat to them at all. But vampires are smart and have been around for centuries, so they took it upon themselves to shape the peoples' myths about them, thus getting many possible foes to waste their time with a sharp piece of wood.

Probably the same is true of other weaknesses, like the inability to cross running water or not being able to enter someone's home uninvited. Really, that's just what the vampires WANT you to think! :smallamused:



Also, slightly disappointed that this thread wasn't about some creature or magical construct with a literal cannon on its head. :smallfrown:

Bohandas
2019-03-26, 08:28 PM
*Zargon is Grazzt's father (thus rectifying the backstory where ge's the son of Pale Night with the backstory where he's a defector from Baator)

*Medieval stagnation has something to do with either the Regulators and/or the Pact Primeval.

*The fact that you can't conjure precious metals also has something to do with either the Regulators and/or the Pact Primeval.

*Iuz looks and sounds like Lo Pan from Big Trouble in Lottle China

*The elemental planes actually dictate the forms that matter can take, rather than providing its building blocks

*The Lady of Pain, The High God, and Lord Ao are all the same type of creature and none of them are able to leave the areas where their absolute control holds

*The illithids (who, according to Lords of Madness come from the distant future) are actually descended from the Githyanki

*The beholders are some kind of opabinids

*Yeenoghou is actually female

*Olidammara used to be some kind of tribal trickster animal deity, that's why he has so many implicit associations with armadillos

*The power a deity gains through worshippers has a strongly diminishing return as number of followers increases beyond a certain point, hence why unpopular deities seem to be more active. The popular deities are over extended, as they reach a point where adding followers merely adds more duties

*Zagyg has done most of the things in the bad mayoral ideas thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?576714-Comically-dumb-ideas-a-braggart-of-a-mayor-could-have).

*Most demons view the Blood War as a sport rather than a serious conflict

*Olidammara's rites are all based on rock and rap cliches

*Vecna's cults are usually more about blackmail than world domination

*Humans' racial traits of variability come from D&D's humans being only about 40% human, with the remaining 60% being "miscellaneous" (elf, orc, dragon, outsider

*In most languages other than common the word for "Good" as in the alignment is a different word than the word for "good" as in "desirable" or "preferable". The orcish word for somethig desirable is more closely translated by the idiom "smashing". The Yugoloth word is more closely translated as "wicked". and the abyssal word translates as "brutal".

*Elves and dwarves, with their long childhoods, have significantly greater precentages of their populations who are in more skilled NPC classes like Adept, Magewright, warrior, and Expert that require more training

*Gelatinous cubes shout the word "cube!" like in Bob the Angry Flower (http://www.angryflower.com/189.html)

Particle_Man
2019-03-26, 09:33 PM
*Iuz looks and sounds like Lo Pan from Big Trouble in Lottle China

I am stealing this.

Âmesang
2019-03-27, 05:23 PM
Some WORLD OF GREYHAWK® related ones:

Regarding the Spelljammers from The Shackled City Adventure Path, I like to imagine their experiments with extraplanar magic (which lead to the creation of the Demonskar) were eventually discovered and refined by the Suel Imperium, which the Mages of Power used to create the Bringer of Doom and the Invoked Devastation.

Regarding the Castle Greyhawk (joke) module, I like to think that Zol Darklock, the Shade Prince and "Power of Shadow" who was trapped by Zodast of Suel (forger of the Bringer of Doom) was originally from the FORGOTTEN REALMS®; a long lost son of High Prince Telemont Tanthul of Shade, who was sent out after Netheril's fall to search for "powerful magic" they could use to reestablish their empire… finding his way to Oerth and the Suel Imperium, only to become trapped in the "Darkness That Holds All Shadows."

Cygnia
2019-03-27, 05:31 PM
Loviatar (and other gods based in Earth myths) fled from "our" world to the Forgotten Realms when belief started to die out.

Matuka
2019-03-27, 06:53 PM
The "god" the Couatl description speaks of is actually the DM.

Maelynn
2019-03-28, 05:40 AM
Rust monsters purr like big kittens/crickets when you give them belly rubs and chin scratches, and are kept as pets by dwarves.

In my previous campaign we actually had a rust monster pet. We kept a stash of cheap daggers in our Bag of Holding to keep him happy - and away from our gear and weapons. We named him Rusty. The DM wouldn't allow him to join fights, but he accompanied us for quite a while.


I always like the idea that the vampire's weakness to a wooden stake was misinformation spread by the vampires themselves.

Because in 3.5, vampires have damage reduction that is only overcome by silver weapons, so a small piece of wood shouldn't be a threat to them at all. But vampires are smart and have been around for centuries, so they took it upon themselves to shape the peoples' myths about them, thus getting many possible foes to waste their time with a sharp piece of wood.

I really like this idea. I had been toying with the idea of 'sophisicated' vampires, who are utterly disgusted with the idea of having to place their lips on the unwashed neck of a peasant smelling of sweat and manure. Some of the younger and slightly hipster ones have taken on gastronomic experimentation, where they create various dishes such as blood soup and blood sausage and fries with blood curds. They do not spend their days in catacombs, because they are so draughty and cold and damp and do you have any idea how bad that is for your skin complexion? No, they rather lead the comfortable and luxurious life of a noble, satisfying their needs through the backdoor of a 'blood bank'. I'm thinking your idea will fit right in with this type of vampire.

Millstone85
2019-03-28, 05:59 AM
*The elemental planes actually dictate the forms that matter can take, rather than providing its building blocksAs in solid, liquid, gas, and plasma. Yeah, I like that.


*The beholders are some kind of opabinidsI googled opabinids, and I don't see the resemblance with beholders. Did you mean aboleths?

But speaking of beholders...

If one could follow the silver-cord-like tail of an astral dreadnought, they would find an eye of the deep.

Yora
2019-03-28, 08:54 AM
Only planar creatures can have alignments.

Ghaunadaur is Jubilex.

And his name is Jubilex. A misspelling that has become so common because it just feels much better.

There is no revised edition of Dark Sun. None of this Rajat and butterfly god nonsense.

Abominations are the original yuan-ti. The human-like ones are the crossbreeds.

There is no Far Plane.

The current year in Faerun is 1357. Forever.

LibraryOgre
2019-03-28, 09:40 AM
The current year in Faerun is 1357. Forever.

My personal version of Faerun usually starts in 1358, but with a few changes.

1) No Avatar Crisis. The Year of Shadows is the year the Shades return, because "Magical Netherese Shadow Wizards" is a cool aspect.
2) Kelemvor is the God of the Dead. Myrkul is the god of the Undead. Velsharoon is the god of Necromancy.

Bohandas
2019-03-28, 10:15 AM
I googled opabinids, and I don't see the resemblance with beholders. Did you mean aboleths?

No I did mean opabinia. IIRC opabinia regalis has four eyes on stalks and one eye that isn't, much like an eyeball beholderkin

Millstone85
2019-03-28, 10:48 AM
Ghaunadaur is Jubilex.

And his name is Jubilex. A misspelling that has become so common because it just feels much better.For me, That Which Lurks, the Faceless Lord, and the Elder Elemental Eye, are physically distinct beings, and kept apart by their planar natures. However, each regards all oozes, including the other two, as extensions of itself, and any communication between them is akin to a hive mind.

I am talking about the real EEE, not Tharizdun disguised as the EEE.


No I did mean opabinia.I wasn't questioning the opabinia part. I thought perhaps you said beholder when you meant aboleth. Because I find opabinia to look more like an aboleth.


IIRC opabinia regalis has four eyes on stalks and one eye that isn't, much like an eyeball beholderkinNow I get it. Thank you.

Bohandas
2019-03-29, 11:15 AM
The Rilmani (http://www.rilmani.org/timaresh/Rilmani) talk like the people from the Neural Planet from Futurama (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk1dd1D2Kts)

Additionally, the Rilmani (http://www.rilmani.org/timaresh/Rilmani) are also associated with stereotypical Swiss things (multitools, alphorns, cheese with holes, etc.)


Modrons speak like minions and slaadi speak like rabbids.

I like that

Black Jester
2019-03-29, 12:02 PM
Coffee is a highly addictive drug for halflings, which creates severe pyschological dependency and trauma. As a result, inviting a halfling to a cup of coffee is a major breech of etiquette (and offering one would be even worse).

Like mules, half-elves and half-orcs are sterile and cannot reproduce (without the aid of fertility magic).

All major gnome cultures are the mutated remnants of a dwarf clan that experimented with arcane magic; in isolated and xenophobic dwarven communities (who never practice arcane magic) they are seen as abominations. In dwarf communities were arcane magic is practiced widely, it is quite possible that dwarf couples will reproduce gnome children. Vice versa, Gnomes who have very little contact to arcane magic might have dwarf children.

gkathellar
2019-03-29, 05:12 PM
There is no Far Plane.

Well, that's regular canon, since the Far Realm isn't a plane and doesn't exist.

PostMortemCP
2019-03-30, 08:37 AM
Guns where always in D&D but the dwarfs never let anyone have them after the great war of the gazebo. Where many innocent lawn structures where destroyed by dwarves arquebus’ and that’s why from a d&d 2e to 3.X the disappear from the equipment list

Beleriphon
2019-03-30, 10:58 AM
Loviatar (and other gods based in Earth myths) fled from "our" world to the Forgotten Realms when belief started to die out.

That's actually a thing. Tyr is one. Some of them were dragged there by faith when their followers were transported there in the distant past. I'm looking a Mulhorand and Unther.

Yora
2019-03-30, 11:13 AM
Except that Loviatar is actually goddess of disease. And Ilmatar is a woman. At least Mielikki seems somewhat right.

AllHailthed4
2019-03-30, 11:16 AM
St. Cuthbert talks like Sam Elliot.

St. Cuthbert *is* Sam Elliot. Also, St. Cuthbert and Common Sense has a pop-up book edition.

Cloakers are an endangered species.

martixy
2019-03-30, 02:56 PM
D&D is not medieval. D&D is a western in medieval drag.

Right.
Mine is: Not medieval. Classical.

As in ancient greek classical. You know, when people in the stories actually went on quests, heroes battled mighty monsters, all that shazz.

Millstone85
2019-03-30, 05:32 PM
Well, that's regular canon, since the Far Realm isn't a plane and doesn't exist.5e Mordenkainen seems to share that view.
The cultists who blaspheme reality by calling out to Elder Evils often speak of a Far Realm from which these entities hail. In truth, there is no one place or space from which they come. There is the multiverse of things that are, and there is the multiverse of things that shouldn't be.Of course, what this really does is offer an interpretation of the Far Realm as the multiverse of things that shouldn't be.

Which gives me creature ideas.

Exotic Elemental
As previously suggested, the Elemental Planes dictate the forms that matter can take. The creatures called exotic elementals represent forms of matter that were rejected at the dawn of time. Some are said to appear as the witness' own blurry reflection in a dark iridescent substance. Their proximity warps the flesh in agonizing ways.

Exemplar of the Indicible
The Outer Planes are home to creatures of law, chaos, good, and evil. When they do not conceal it, they have a perceptible aura that brings to mind the ideals they embody. The beings called exemplars of the indicible have a similar aura, except that the ideal thus perceived is wholly unfamiliar. It leaves the witness confused, frightened, and often mad. Some exemplars of the indicible have been described as excessively slender angels with fins for wings.

Eldan
2019-03-30, 05:38 PM
Right.
Mine is: Not medieval. Classical.

As in ancient greek classical. You know, when people in the stories actually went on quests, heroes battled mighty monsters, all that shazz.

Hey they did that in medieval literature too. And some were just as mighty. Roland hacked a mountain in two when angry. The hacked-apart mountain is still there at the French-Spanish border. Some of Arthur's knights did some downright ridiculous things in a lot of the stories, too.

Luccan
2019-03-31, 04:09 AM
Hey they did that in medieval literature too. And some were just as mighty. Roland hacked a mountain in two when angry. The hacked-apart mountain is still there at the French-Spanish border. Some of Arthur's knights did some downright ridiculous things in a lot of the stories, too.

If I recall, many of Arthur's knights originally had cool magic powers. It was only later we started depicting them as relatively regular humans.

I treat gnomes and dwarves as being related. Like, somewhere closer than many other species, they have a common ancestor. They acknowledge this by referring to each other as "cousin" and they get along famously. I know this is sort-of canon already, but my interpretation is specifically that neither came first and that they're equals. Which makes it all the more tragic to the more "surface-dwelling" groups that duergar treat the deep gnomes so terribly.

Elves can grow facial hair, but it isn't considered stylish or polite in most communities. Plus it takes them like a decade to grow a decent beard.

Halflings generally have the blood of multiple subraces in them, they just have certain traits more pronounced to establish their own subrace. They also have a loose collection of travelling lawmen expected to uphold justice in any halfling community and see to the people's well being. Caravans and permanent communities both exist in halfling culture; most communities are fine with their folk coming and going between the two.

PostMortemCP
2019-03-31, 11:19 AM
Unpopular headcannon here.... the pathfinder world was made when a PC made it to god level and then looked upon the kingdoms of mortals and said.... “I can make this fun again”

PostMortemCP
2019-03-31, 12:31 PM
If I recall, many of Arthur's knights originally had cool magic powers. It was only later we started depicting them as relatively regular humans.

I treat gnomes and dwarves as being related. Like, somewhere closer than many other species, they have a common ancestor. They acknowledge this by referring to each other as "cousin" and they get along famously. I know this is sort-of canon already, but my interpretation is specifically that neither came first and that they're equals. Which makes it all the more tragic to the more "surface-dwelling" groups that duergar treat the deep gnomes so terribly.

Elves can grow facial hair, but it isn't considered stylish or polite in most communities. Plus it takes them like a decade to grow a decent beard.

Halflings generally have the blood of multiple subraces in them, they just have certain traits more pronounced to establish their own subrace. They also have a loose collection of travelling lawmen expected to uphold justice in any halfling community and see to the people's well being. Caravans and permanent communities both exist in halfling culture; most communities are fine with their folk coming and going between the two.
Actually even Tolkien had some elves with beards. One of them in fact was a sailor who had quite a long one

John Campbell
2019-03-31, 12:37 PM
Halflings get racially profiled because everyone knows they're all thieves "expert treasure hunters" "rogues".

Most shops have a "No shoes, no service" sign posted. Because see above.

If a halfling wears shoes, they can't make Stealth checks.

Kobolds are not in any way related to dragons.

Eating kobolds (it's surprising how many of the PCs this actually comes up with) will give you cobalt poisoning.

The goblin life cycle can be measured in rounds. That's why there are still goblins.

No one is really sure whether gnolls actually have a language, or if it's all just meaningless insane cackling.

Dwarves are Norse, dammit, not Scottish.

All hill giants have names that end in "-Bob", "-Jo(e)", or "-Sue".

Hand_of_Vecna
2019-03-31, 02:04 PM
Illithids evolved from humans and their subtle manipulations have made sure that humans are the dominant race.

The thing that was killing them in the far future evolved from Gith.

hymer
2019-03-31, 02:53 PM
Kobolds are not in any way related to dragons.
But their massive inferiority complex makes the thought extremely appealing to them. Dragons encourage this nonsense to make kobolds fanatically loyal, disposable minions.


Illithids evolved from humans and their subtle manipulations have made sure that humans are the dominant race.
And Elans are the missing link. The creation of an elan kills the human, implanting a proto-tadpole. Elans are usually not aware of this themselves.

Gee, my inventions don't seem all that nice, do they? :smallamused:

Millstone85
2019-03-31, 04:49 PM
Primus used to be a metal primordial who was also an epic artificer. The first great modron march successfully conquered the outer plane of pure law.

Carceri was the first lower plane. Devils are an offshoot of its original jailers, and demons of its original inmates.

Benevolent great old ones exist. But these entities rarely manifest in the planes, for they know their mere presence would warp matter and minds. Here are a few of them:

The Ophanim, with its many concentric flaming wheels sprouting wings with eyes for feathers.
The Flumph Seer Magnum, who protectively enfolds the Great Wheel in its noodly appendages.
The Purring Pit of Flerken, simply the most ad'awrable eldritch horror. Beware the claws, though.

Her Serenity the Lady of Pain is also a GOO. She would reabsorb the Great Wheel if she stepped out of the Cage.

Now that "planes" from Magic: The Gathering are being adapted to 5e D&D, the Aether is totally another name for Spelljammer's Phlogiston.

Each crystal sphere has its own echo in the Feywild and in the Shadowfell.

Shardminds self-assemble from the debris of crystal spheres.

The creator of the couatls was, of course, Quetzalcoatl. He was also the lone good-aligned god of the yuan-ti.

Gnomes are descended from dwarves who settled in the Feywild.

Illithids are the degenerate descendants of aboleths.

No wizard made the owlbear. It is in fact related to the duckbeaver, also known as the platypus. Nature is just weird like that.

Bohandas
2019-03-31, 11:49 PM
*Kobolds are a mix of dragon, goblin, and chihuahua

*Mustard gas is used in place of mustard in the abyss

*Slavery is the abyss is exclusively of the locked-up-in-some-guy's-basement variety. Chattel slavery is dependent on there being someone around who will help you recapture escapees instead of just laughing at your sorry *** or impulsively killing them. (Do bear in mind however that Grazzt's basement encompasses two entire layers of the plane, so him having a lot of slaves isn't inconsistent with this.)

*The Nine Hells have an extreme form of intellectual property law in which all of the words in the Infernal language, and even the individual letters, have owners and you run up a tab by talking or writing. The Abyssal language uses infernal script mostly to deliberately flout this.

*Gwynharwyf talks and acts like the title character from "Unikitty!"

*Powerful outer planar beings, especially when they aren't being observed, spend much of their time in some sort of a teance or stupor. Most deities only have about enough interesting stories about to cover a human lifetime but are far older than that and by all rights should be more interesting.

*the outer planes aren't so much infinite as they are unlimited. They represent alignments and ideals and empty ininhabited spaces can't really do that, and since the multiverse began a finite amount of time in the past there aren't enough sould to saturate an infinite plane. If the outer planes were fully realized in addition to being infinite then most astral color pools would lead to nowhere. Mount Celestia doesn't need a sky that goes on forever and Bytopia and Arcadia don't need ground that is infinitely deep. They do however need to be able to expand however far that they need to. The majority of the outer planes merely exist in potentia until explored or settled. If the outer planes were fully realized in addition to being infinite then most astral color pools would lead to nowhere

*Many structures and features on the planes were not built by either man or god, nor by conventional natural forces, but are rather manifestations of the plane itself. Crack houses have been known to spontaneously generate in the Abyss, and areas of Elysium have been noted to be beautifying themselves. This usually happens when nobody is looking.

*There is, in general, a very strong observer effect on the planes

*The Battle of Pesh was fought using magically enhanced weapons of mass destruction and other magics and technologies that have subsequently been lost.

*Pesh was not an area on Oreth, but a nearby planet that was pulverized into the nearby asteroid field (The Grinder) during the battle

*Olidammara's demesne in Ysgard is located between Big Rock Candy Mountain and Gangsta's Paradise

King of Nowhere
2019-04-01, 02:56 AM
Vecna is not worshipped in dark basements by a handful of power-hungry cultists. Figuring out that more worshippers equal more power, he refluffed himself as a god of knowledge with a practical approach towards [evil] spells, and he is worshipped openly.
He may be having darker plans, though.

When alive, vecna was a kind of brilliant-but-lazy-and-easlily-distracted guy, quite like xykon.

In lands dominated by hextor, they wanted the peasant to be even poorer than usual, so they invented tin coins and lead coins, worth a fraction of a copper. If you own copper in hextor's lands, most people will consider you filthy rich.

In hextor's land, to make the people work more, they increased the lenght of the week. There is still only one sunday. Every once in a while, a leader will add another day to the week.
Currently they have 23 days, and counting. The extra days are all called monday, because everyone hates mondays.

The merchants of magic items are all members of a very powerful guild with a strong policy of mutual protection and retaliation.
How else would they avoid getting robbed by high level adventurers?
This also explains wht they all sell and buy for the same prices: monopolistic regime.

Particle_Man
2019-04-01, 06:50 AM
Wait, I thought illithids being far future beings descended from aboleths was already canon.

Millstone85
2019-04-01, 07:39 AM
Most of a god's power does not come from their worship. Rather, a god is the epic cleric of an ideal. This is why they are known as "god of ". The ideal itself needs believers. It manifests as a realm on an outer plane, where the gods of that ideal take residence. Having followers is still very important to a god, because that more personal faith anchors them to a humanoid sense of self. Without it, a god becomes stuck in the trance mentioned by Bohandas, their body eventually turning to astral stone.

Annam the All-Father and Moradin the All-Father are one and the same. After forsaking the giants, he made the dwarves. Of course, both races would call this a heresy.

Toril's current god of death is Charname, also known as Gorion's Ward and the Slayer of Sarevok. After the final showdown, he obviously chose godhood, dubious that the solars could truly lock away the great ocean of blood. And so Bhaal remains dead, because I didn't play through Baldur's Gate, Siege of Dragonspear, Shadows of Amn, and Throne of Bhaal, just for a 5e pantheon table to tell me "Lol, murder-daddy be back".


the outer planes aren't so much infinite as they are unlimited. They represent alignments and ideals and empty ininhabited spaces can't really do that, and since the multiverse began a finite amount of time in the past there aren't enough sould to saturate an infinite plane. If the outer planes were fully realized in addition to being infinite then most astral color pools would lead to nowhere. Mount Celestia doesn't need a sky that goes on forever and Bytopia and Arcadia don't need ground that is infinitely deep. They do however need to be able to expand however far that they need to. The majority of the outer planes merely exist [i]in potentia until explored or settled.Something similar is canon in 5e. The Outer Planes are essentially dreamscapes. Depending on your state of mind and the will of the powers that be, you could circle the base of Mount Celestia in a single day, or keep finding kingdom after kingdom. The Outer Planes are also said to have purely spiritual layers, beyond human senses and experiences, where distance is truly meaningless.


Wait, I thought illithids being far future beings descended from aboleths was already canon.That's possible. I think D&D has had several versions of the illithids' origins.

Bohandas
2019-04-01, 11:06 AM
People from other planar metropolises are unimpressed by Sigil. Much like how people from LA are unimpressed by New York and vice versa.

Hugh Mann
2019-04-01, 11:19 AM
At some point all the gods got together and fixed the prices of all goods and services. They also meet every few centuries to vote on price changes.

Constructman
2019-04-01, 11:39 AM
People from other planar metropolises are unimpressed by Sigil. Much like how people from LA are unimpressed by New York and vice versa.

What other metropolises are there? I know the City of Brass is one, but what others have been mentioned?

JMS
2019-04-01, 11:49 AM
What other metropolises are there? I know the City of Brass is one, but what others have been mentioned?

4e had the bright city of Hevestar, home of the deities of civilization, the sun, and knowledge. Multiple in the 9 Hells, Grazzit's layers in the abyss, and a few more (Probably one on Mt. Celestia, IIRC)

Bohandas
2019-04-01, 12:37 PM
There's also the City of Union, and the Githyanki capital, and the ekolid city of Zionyn in the Abyss, and the demesnes of the greater deities,

EDIT:
And also the Great Dismal Delve, the City of Glass, the Heavenly City of Yetsira, the Formian Central Hive-City, The goblin fortress cube Clangor, Dis, Grenpoli, Jangling Hiter, the Crawling City, etc.

Spore
2019-04-01, 03:09 PM
Vancian magic was introduced to the world in a pact between Mystra and Asmodeus' most stingy accountant.

KillianHawkeye
2019-04-01, 06:36 PM
Wait, I thought illithids being far future beings descended from aboleths was already canon.

I've never heard the "descended from aboleths" part.

noob
2019-04-02, 07:20 AM
All forgotten realms gods are deeply evil (just look at what they do and you can not tell me they are not evil) but since it is the devils which invented the alignment detection spells to cause acts of hatred (which is why orcs pings evil: it is intended to make people hate orcs) they decided to make some gods ping good so that good people would still consider the possibility of following gods instead of becoming ur priests to weaken the gods. (it is also due to the devils that the mentality that makes ur priests pings evil since devils chose what pings evil and what pings good)

Jay R
2019-04-02, 01:57 PM
The entire multiverse was created by a demented being as a place for his or her friends to amuse themselves. Most creatures only exist for his friends to slay by proxy, using creatures of their own.

The "gods" are as much a plaything of this entity as any other creature.

Velaryon
2019-04-02, 04:09 PM
My personal canon: The Spellplague never happened in the Forgotten Realms, and nothing that takes place after it exists.

Ravenloft exists as its own demiplane, and while some pieces of it may have been drawn from other settings, they are no longer part of those places.




Vecna's phylactery is the Sword Of Kas. Think about it, Vecna was an epic-level lich by all accounts, and he made the sword for Kas because he trusted him. A FIghter, even a Vampire one, being able to permanently maim a lich of Vecna's caliber is absurd. So why then, did a sword that Vecna crafted manage to cut through all of his magical defenses and cut off his hand and gouge out his eye? Simple, because none of Vecna's magical defneses worked against the sword, because the sword contained Vecna's soul, and all those protection spells considered the soul a part of the caster who placed them. The reason the Sword has intelligence and hates Vecna and all his servants? Because Vecna's ego was so great. The soul in the sword resents that it is not in possession of all of Vecna's power and all that he is, believing itself to be as powerful and deserving, if not more so.



*Slavery is the abyss is exclusively of the locked-up-in-some-guy's-basement variety. Chattel slavery is dependent on there being someone around who will help you recapture escapees instead of just laughing at your sorry *** or impulsively killing them. (Do bear in mind however that Grazzt's basement encompasses two entire layers of the plane, so him having a lot of slaves isn't inconsistent with this.)

*The Nine Hells have an extreme form of intellectual property law in which all of the words in the Infernal language, and even the individual letters, have owners and you run up a tab by talking or writing. The Abyssal language uses infernal script mostly to deliberately flout this.

I especially love these and may well add them to my own personal canon.

Hand_of_Vecna
2019-04-02, 06:23 PM
My personal canon: The Spellplague never happened in the Forgotten Realms, and nothing that takes place after it exists.


That isn't Canon? What else is "Demiplane of Dread" supposed to mean? In I Strahd we see the process of Barovia becoming part of Ravenloft and in at least one high level adventure perma-killing a Domain Lord can return the realm to it's native Prime. Was Ravenloft defanged in a newer edition?

Vizzerdrix
2019-04-02, 07:12 PM
Halflings refer to other races as twicelings in a negative way. They also consider hobbit to be a fight on sight level insult.

Bohandas
2019-04-02, 08:13 PM
*Halflings don't actually exist. That's why they're so non-integral to the standard settings that yhey could be removed without affecting anything; they're merely a shared delusion. And the ones that aren't hallucinations are actually heavily medicated kender

John Campbell
2019-04-02, 10:33 PM
But their massive inferiority complex makes the thought extremely appealing to them. Dragons encourage this nonsense to make kobolds fanatically loyal, disposable minions.

I run kobolds as the old-school vaguely canine humanoids, not this new-fangled mini-draconian nonsense, so the notion that they're dragon-kin is absurd on the face of it.

Bohandas
2019-04-03, 01:18 AM
*Sigil's relevance is entirely powered by the self-importance of its inhabitants. It is important only because they believe it is; only because of the power of belief.

*Xoriot is not a true plane, but rather a hole in Eberron's multiverse.

*The Ethereal plane still connects between the material and elemental planes just like it did in the old editions. It's still classed as a transitive plane, so it must go somewhere.

*"Saint" is Saint Cuthbert's given name. As a title it would make exactly zero sense in context.

*In the Nine Hells nearly everything is illegal, but if you fill out the right forms you can get a permit to do anything.

*The reason Geryon was deposed after the reckoning despite the fact that he was the only lord who did not rebel against Asmodeus is because he had already filled out and filed a notice of intent to rebel but did not follow througn on it.

*Most of the minions of most abyssal lords are more like groupies and hangers-on than actual underlings who follow orders. They follow the more powerful demon around and sometimes follow suggestions because entertainingly tragic things happen in the more powerful demon's vicinity and they want to see and to contribute to the awfulness and mayhem

Particle_Man
2019-04-03, 01:27 AM
The entire multiverse was created by a demented being as a place for his or her friends to amuse themselves. Most creatures only exist for his friends to slay by proxy, using creatures of their own.

The "gods" are as much a plaything of this entity as any other creature.

I know that Gary Gygax wasn't perfect but calling him demented seems a little harsh. :smallbiggrin:

Luccan
2019-04-03, 03:09 AM
*Most often, (good) Paladins retire after an adventure or four. Being extremely hard to kill at low levels, coupled with most others' ability to die really fast kind of destroys the romance of adventure and can quite often lead to crises of faith ("Why did all my friends die and I lived? Did I fail my deity or did they fail me?" sorta thing). Plus, by then they've usually defeated whatever minor evil they were tasked with destroying in the first place; Good deities rarely expect a lifetime of service in such a soul crushing and dangerous field as "ultimate Good guy".

Millstone85
2019-04-03, 04:56 AM
Ravenloft exists as its own demiplane, and while some pieces of it may have been drawn from other settings, they are no longer part of those places.
That isn't Canon? What else is "Demiplane of Dread" supposed to mean? In I Strahd we see the process of Barovia becoming part of Ravenloft and in at least one high level adventure perma-killing a Domain Lord can return the realm to it's native Prime. Was Ravenloft defanged in a newer edition?In a sense, the Demiplane of Dread doesn't exist in 4e and 5e. Rather, places like the valley of Barovia are now referred to as the Domains of Dread, one of the features of a plane called the Shadowfell. They, however, still largely function as their own thing. 4e calls them isolated pockets. 5e calls them demiplanes. Really, it is more like the Shadowfell has misty portals to them.

Regarding regions being absorbed into Ravenloft, I am not sure what the problem is.


The Ethereal plane still connects between the material and elemental planes just like it did in the old editions. It's still classed as a transitive plane, so it must go somewhere.That's canon in 5e.

Jay R
2019-04-03, 09:19 AM
The entire multiverse was created by a demented being as a place for his or her friends to amuse themselves. Most creatures only exist for his friends to slay by proxy, using creatures of their own.

The "gods" are as much a plaything of this entity as any other creature.
I know that Gary Gygax wasn't perfect but calling him demented seems a little harsh. :smallbiggrin:

I actually meant the DM of each game -- my game in particular.

[Besides, Arneson invented the hobby, not Gygax.]

Malphegor
2019-04-03, 10:48 AM
Wee Jas became the Raven Queen during the vague timeline from 3e to 4e is a fairly popular theory that I've never been 100% happy with but have accepted. She slowly lost her Suloise-origins and became a more generic Morrigan-lite entity as more of her worship came from non-Suel originating peoples on planes other than Greyhawk. (I'm not sure if D&D gods are influenced by their followers much, it feels right but I may be mistaken)

We all know of Oerth and Earth, but there are many other <letters>-rth universes out there, from Derth, to Hearth, all the way up to Zerth. The spelling is often inconsistent. (I think this IS canon somewhere but I can't find where)


The inventor of Grease never considered its amazingly versatile use in battle, and mostly thought it was a fun prank spell.

NontheistCleric
2019-04-03, 11:15 AM
Male hags exist, but because the Monster Manual entry (at least in 3.5) states that all hags look like old females, the males also look like old females.

Some suffer body dysphoria over this and cut or burn off their female features.

SunderedWorldDM
2019-04-03, 11:38 AM
After some PC shenanigans, Orcus was ousted as a demon lord and instead became a Shadowfell entity, rival to the Raven Queen. A PC ascended to become a demon lord instead, and now Korren rules Thatanos.

Bohandas
2019-04-03, 12:44 PM
Male hags exist, but because the Monster Manual entry (at least in 3.5) states that all hags look like old females, the males also look like old females.

Some suffer body dysphoria over this and cut or burn off their female features.

And others marry gnoll women

Yora
2019-04-03, 12:59 PM
Hags are female ogres.

Both are grotesque versions of humans that capture and eat people. Males display strength and physical violence, and females use lies and deception.

hymer
2019-04-03, 01:07 PM
Hags are female ogres.

Both are grotesque versions of humans that capture and eat people. Males display strength and physical violence, and females use lies and deception.

I love that! I'm definitely stealing it.

Eldan
2019-04-03, 03:08 PM
Hags are female ogres.

Both are grotesque versions of humans that capture and eat people. Males display strength and physical violence, and females use lies and deception.

How would you say the Ogre Magus fits into this?

Beleriphon
2019-04-03, 04:05 PM
How would you say the Ogre Magus fits into this?

Rename it the oni, and go with that. Its a similar, but distinct creature that uses its superficial similarities to ogres to rule over a clan.

OR

If a hag breeds with an ogre it produces an ogre mage, however hags being hags don't actually want something that can both outwit them and out-pummel them.

Pronounceable
2019-04-03, 10:24 PM
Raven Queen is Kelemvor. He got sick of all that wall bull**** and changed his name and moved away.

Asmodeus is an empty showboat claiming everything always goes just as planned no matter what happens.

Bohandas
2019-04-04, 12:14 AM
*Obryiths are slightly more chaotic than evil, loumaras are slightly more evil than chaotic, and tanari are relatibely evenly mixed

*Bel and the Dark Eight operate out of a star fort called "The Pentagram"


*Slavery is the abyss is exclusively of the locked-up-in-some-guy's-basement variety. Chattel slavery is dependent on there being someone around who will help you recapture escapees instead of just laughing at your sorry *** or impulsively killing them. (Do bear in mind however that Grazzt's basement encompasses two entire layers of the plane, so him having a lot of slaves isn't inconsistent with this.)

*Demons, in fact, fall generally into the anti-slavery camp when it comes to chattel slavery since chattel slavery falls somewhat firmly in the lawful-evil quadrant along with the hated baatezu

*Demons are actually better than celestials at righting lawful-evil type institutional wrongs. For a certain value of "righting" for any way. Celestials worry about avoiding things like civilian casualties, or collateral damage, or collapsing the entire economy plunging the land into famine and chaos, or killing the people they're supposed to be helping. To demons however these are all bonuses, which greatly expands their options, and plunging the land into eternal famine and chaos greatly impedes the local government's ability to enforce tyrannical policies going forward.

Millstone85
2019-04-04, 03:50 AM
Plane shifting is actually time travel.

The history of the universe goes like so:


Elemental Era
(Inner Planes)


Time of Faeries
(Feywild)


Draconic Reign
(Prime Material)


Time of Dust
(Shadowfell)


Astral Age
(Outer Planes)


Some periods see the coexistence of alternate timelines. The universe begins with a fireball, but also with a storm. It ends with everything going to Hell, but also to Heaven.

The Time of Dust and the Astral Age are the death and the afterlife of the universe itself.

The Ethereal is made of time. In the Astral Age, it is replaced by something even more abstract.

Travellers usually find themselves too far in the future or the past for paradoxes to occur. Otherwise, they become the target of the quaruts, the inevitables of causality, which come from the cosmic clock that is Mechanus. Vague omens are, however, fairly common.

Limbo is an attempt to bring about a new elemental era. Or would it be the very same Elemental Era, making time a circle?

Many theories exist on the nature of the Far Realm. Is it a previous iteration of the universe? Is it a set of timelines based on "impossible" outcomes? Is it outside of time? Is it a single name mistakenly given to all these things?

Bohandas
2019-04-04, 09:23 AM
*Instead of acting hobbit-like, halflings all have the personality and mannerisms of crime boss Joaquin "Shorty" Guzman.

Edit:
And they double down hard on any traits where hobbits and El Chapo overlap (ie. tunnels, questionable recreational plant crops, etc)

PostMortemCP
2019-04-04, 11:28 AM
The berserk from the deities and demigods book in 3.5 is not only the originator of lycanthropy, the bear warrior and barbarians as a whole but they are the best prestige class for anyone wanting to become any form of lychanthrope or a frenzy berserker without the serious drawbacks This is both a flavor, game balancing and head canon reason of why Berzerks normally restricted to Nordic style characters worship Nordic deities should be the highest regarded most feared and aimed for in any barbarians play book. Why become a werewolf or were bear when bird is now an option and is literally a rage frenzy powerhouse.

Malphegor
2019-04-04, 02:06 PM
Tieflings and Tanarruks have multiple origins, but the oldest were likely Acolytes of the Skin, cocaine wizards who willingly took on the facets of infernal biology by letting themselves be inhabited by a devil of demon. Breeding with devils directly to create half fiends and proper subspecies that self reproduce came later.

Due to the existence of interdimensional travel including access to the afterlifes of various faiths, something exists to stop the dead staging prison breaks from the afterlife on the regular.

There are multiple versions of the named characters based on real writers’ characters. This is why the big
wizards never mention the satelite with portals to a technologically current day Earth.


There are still AD&D (I think) Apocalypse Stones, they’re just really boring looking and hard to activate nowadays.

Beholders are getting more ferocious across editions because they reproduce by dreaming of themselves being tougher versions of themselves. They used to be quite happy and friendly chaps, but each fight makes the next generation more evil, more powerful, more aggressive.

Âmesang
2019-04-05, 06:13 PM
We all know of Oerth and Earth, but there are many other <letters>-rth universes out there, from Derth, to Hearth, all the way up to Zerth. The spelling is often inconsistent. (I think this IS canon somewhere but I can't find where)
From Gygax himself (see his article in POLYHEDRON #21 Nov 1984, p.9, and later mentioned in Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, p.91) the official worlds connected to Oerth were Earth, Aerth (detailed in the Epic of Ærth sourcebook for Gygax's Dangerous Journeys roleplaying game), Yarth (the Conan/Kull-like setting for Gygax's Sagard the Barbarian choose-your-own-adventure books), and Uerth (a mirror-version of Oerth detailed in Expedition…).

Gygax also detailed a sixth world, "Learth" (or "Lejendary Earth") from his Lejendary Adventure roleplaying game. However, since it wasn't grouped together with Aerth, Earth, Oerth, Uerth, and Yarth, I treated the "Learth" side of a "Gygaxian cubic gate" as being scarred/cracked/broken/otherwise inoperable.

…with all of that said, your idea regarding the spread of Wee Jas' influence reminded me of her inclusion as an Earthen religion in d20 Modern. :smallsmile:

(Also, are details mentioned in a DUNGEON MASTER'S Guide considered canon? 'Cause I like how the 5e DMG [p.41] makes mention of the module "City Beyond the Gate," where adventurers travel to London to recover the Mace of St. Cuthbert, as well as Ed Greenwood's series of short stories, "The Wizards Three," where Mordenkainen, Elminster of Shadowdale, and Dalamar the Dark [usually] would travel to Earth to talk shop at Ed's house.)

Bohandas
2019-04-06, 01:23 AM
*The courts in Woeful Escrand in the Abyss operate more like gameshows than proper courtrooms

*The unseen "Dark Powers" who control the Demiplane of Dread look and sound like Rod Sterling

*Vecna got out of the Demiplane of Dread, and into Sigil, by cutting through the Far Realm instead of going via the Astral ot Ethereal planes

noob
2019-04-06, 02:01 AM
In earth weapons are deadlier than those written in the dmg and chtulu is a recurrent problem.

Millstone85
2019-04-06, 03:44 AM
The unseen "Dark Powers" who control the Demiplane of Dread look and sound like Rod SerlingSubmitted for your approval, a portrait of Strahd von Zarovich, once a conqueror of lands and hearts, now scarred and resenting younger men. The woman he covets is putting on her bridal garments, but for his brother. In a moment, we will offer Strahd the deal of a lifetime, a new dawn in place of dusk. Of course, those can be difficult to tell apart, here in the Twilight Zone.

LibraryOgre
2019-04-06, 09:56 AM
*The unseen "Dark Powers" who control the Demiplane of Dread look and sound like Rod Sterling



Submitted for your approval, a portrait of Strahd von Zarovich, once a conqueror of lands and hearts, now scarred and resenting younger men. The woman he covets is putting on her bridal garments, but for his brother. In a moment, we will offer Strahd the deal of a lifetime, a new dawn in place of dusk. Of course, those can be difficult to tell apart, here in the Twilight Zone.

Well, this is too cool NOT to be true.

But, juxtaposition is now making me think of being Mazed by the Lady of Pain as being "sent to the cornfield."

PhoenixPhyre
2019-04-07, 09:26 AM
Personal head canon:

The "multiverse" is a lie. More specifically, a partial truth.

The real truth (the one the gods don't want people to know) is that the regular D&D multiverse with the Great Wheel and all that, is merely one of an uncountable infinity of such universes, all with different cosmologies, laws, etc. All these are embedded in the Far Realms, which is the real background, and is sentient. The creators of each of these realms (as well as all the assorted Far Realms denizens) are fragments of the Dreaming Dark (the sleeping mind of the Far Realms itself), created a timeless eternity ago when the Dark dreamed of Self and Other. Some of these Dreamers settled down to create worlds (singly or in concert); others still wander and meddle. Some malevolent (from the perspective of the Dream-bound), some not. All alien. Transit between these realms may be possible, but it's a matter of thought and will, not "magic" or "science".

Distance in this meta-realm is philosophical and conceptual. Worlds that are "similar" cluster together (in a sense), while others spread throughout infinite "space".

All worlds that can be conceived of exist. Some are broken fragments, incapable of coherent existence. Others are infinitely large (like the D&D multiverse). Our "real world" as well is among these Dreams.

noob
2019-04-07, 09:38 AM
Personal head canon:

The "multiverse" is a lie. More specifically, a partial truth.

The real truth (the one the gods don't want people to know) is that the regular D&D multiverse with the Great Wheel and all that, is merely one of an uncountable infinity of such universes, all with different cosmologies, laws, etc. All these are embedded in the Far Realms, which is the real background, and is sentient. The creators of each of these realms (as well as all the assorted Far Realms denizens) are fragments of the Dreaming Dark (the sleeping mind of the Far Realms itself), created a timeless eternity ago when the Dark dreamed of Self and Other. Some of these Dreamers settled down to create worlds (singly or in concert); others still wander and meddle. Some malevolent (from the perspective of the Dream-bound), some not. All alien. Transit between these realms may be possible, but it's a matter of thought and will, not "magic" or "science".

Distance in this meta-realm is philosophical and conceptual. Worlds that are "similar" cluster together (in a sense), while others spread throughout infinite "space".

All worlds that can be conceived of exist. Some are broken fragments, incapable of coherent existence. Others are infinitely large (like the D&D multiverse). Our "real world" as well is among these Dreams.

All worlds that can be conceived of exist
not exactly true: or else everyone could imagine "a functional world where there is a super cool thing that is able to come in my world and help me and which is going to do so in 5 seconds from my time" and due to them being able to conceive it then it would exist and come in five seconds to help this person.

Or people in normal worlds are unable to imagine such kind of things.

PhoenixPhyre
2019-04-07, 09:45 AM
not exactly true: or else everyone could imagine "a functional world where there is a super cool thing that is able to come in my world and help me and which is going to do so in 5 seconds from my time" and due to them being able to conceive it then it would exist and come in five seconds to help this person.

Or people in normal worlds are unable to imagine such kind of things.

Such a world may exist. But the only ones capable of bringing new worlds into existence are the Dreamers, whose dreams we are. The individuals within a dream may (or may not) have power to shape their own dream (depending on the will of the Dreamer), but they can't affect other Dreams without going there and acting on that other Dream's terms. Most Dreams have exclusion rules that limit or forbid transit between Dreams, and force anything that does transit to take on particular metaphysical characteristics. Forces and beings from without tend to be corrosive to the things within, as their laws of being conflict with the local laws of being.

My point was that all the worlds both fictional and real slot into this meta-landscape. Not literally everything that can be conceived of, but more figuratively.

Millstone85
2019-04-07, 09:53 AM
snip
"a functional world where there is a super cool thing that is able to come in my world and help me and which is going to do so in 5 seconds from my time"This reminds me of The Chronicles of Amber.

noob
2019-04-07, 09:55 AM
This reminds me of The Chronicles of Amber.

I mentioned that because it is a common idea and so not having it happen when everything exists at once is weird.

PhoenixPhyre
2019-04-07, 10:09 AM
This reminds me of The Chronicles of Amber.

Amber is an example of a world where that works just fine, because the dreamer there allowed it. In others, the dreamer decided that they didn't want that to work. From the perspective of someone in one of these worlds, only their world exists. Cross dream activity isn't easy.*

* Except as thoughts from outside. Possibly as imagination or dreams. Since everything is part of the Dreaming Dark, everything exists conceptually and can interact that way. Conceptual space is weird, man.

Millstone85
2019-04-07, 10:22 AM
I mentioned that because it is a common idea and so not having it happen when everything exists at once is weird.I think it is a form of omnipotence paradox:

All imaginable worlds exist, no exceptions.
Imagine a wish-granting world, able to send cool stuff to all other worlds, no exceptions.
Imagine a world that is impermeable to anything sent from other worlds, no exceptions.

Velaryon
2019-04-08, 04:23 PM
That isn't Canon? What else is "Demiplane of Dread" supposed to mean? In I Strahd we see the process of Barovia becoming part of Ravenloft and in at least one high level adventure perma-killing a Domain Lord can return the realm to it's native Prime. Was Ravenloft defanged in a newer edition?

So you quoted the Forgotten Realms part of my post but then replied to the Ravenloft part. Millstone85 touched on this issue but I thought I would expand on it since I'm the one who put forth my headcanon on this topic.

My headcanon is that the Demiplane of Dread is a full setting, not a series of isolated lands that can be plugged in to other worlds all willy-nilly. I know that's how they began with the original Ravenloft adventure, but I preferred the full expanded setting, complete with all those other lands. Unfortunately, to my knowledge that hasn't existed since 3.5 edition, when the setting was licensed out to a third party. Since recovering the license, all WotC has done with it to my knowledge is remake the original Strahd adventure in Barovia a couple of times.

To me, Barovia is one nation among many, alongside Darkon, Mordent, Sithicus, and a bunch of others. None of those might as well exist, for all Wizards has done with them.

Bohandas
2019-04-08, 04:48 PM
Plane shifting is actually time travel.

The history of the universe goes like so:


Elemental Era
(Inner Planes)


Time of Faeries
(Feywild)


Draconic Reign
(Prime Material)


Time of Dust
(Shadowfell)


Astral Age
(Outer Planes)


Some periods see the coexistence of alternate timelines. The universe begins with a fireball, but also with a storm. It ends with everything going to Hell, but also to Heaven.

The Time of Dust and the Astral Age are the death and the afterlife of the universe itself.

The Ethereal is made of time. In the Astral Age, it is replaced by something even more abstract.

Travellers usually find themselves too far in the future or the past for paradoxes to occur. Otherwise, they become the target of the quaruts, the inevitables of causality, which come from the cosmic clock that is Mechanus. Vague omens are, however, fairly common.

Limbo is an attempt to bring about a new elemental era. Or would it be the very same Elemental Era, making time a circle?

Many theories exist on the nature of the Far Realm. Is it a previous iteration of the universe? Is it a set of timelines based on "impossible" outcomes? Is it outside of time? Is it a single name mistakenly given to all these things?

This is clever, I really like this

Cliff Sedge
2019-04-09, 08:49 PM
A minor point: Malakuth Tabruiir and Amryyr (of Skullport) are homosexual lovers.

If this isn't actual Realms canon, it is implied pretty strongly in the books.

Bohandas
2019-04-10, 12:32 AM
*The Warforged cultists of the Lord of Blades are forbidden from having any sort of gender identity or gender expression. Such things are unbecoming in robot supremacists

*The Lord of Blades sounds like Arnold Schwarzenegger in The Terminator

*Trolls eat a lot because their regenerative abilities are metabolically taxing. This, combined with their poor mental abilities and lack of discipline leand to them attacking livestock, which leads to altervations with ranchers, which leads to their regeneration being needed, which turns into a vicious cycle

Yora
2019-04-10, 02:17 AM
*The Warforged cultists of the Lord of Blades are forbidden from having any sort of gender identity or gender expression. Such things are unbecoming in robot supremacists

"And they will march eternal, shiny and chrome."

Eldan
2019-04-10, 04:53 AM
I personally dislike any indication that Graz'zt is not a full-blooded demon. Especially when it is indicated that he is part Baatezu. Because I dislike the overtone of him being too smart, charming, devious, etc. to be a demon. Demons can just as much be charming, intelligent or planning long term as devils.

LibraryOgre
2019-04-10, 10:57 AM
A minor point: Malakuth Tabruiir and Amryyr (of Skullport) are homosexual lovers.

If this isn't actual Realms canon, it is implied pretty strongly in the books.

If Ed Greenwood had anything to say about them, they probably are. He's been queering up the Realms since he started it.

Grey Guard
2019-04-10, 03:26 PM
Headcanon stuff is always fun. I have a few.

- Mask is a real wild card in faerunian pantheon politics. In the clashes of good vs. evil, Mask is the evil guy most likely to saddle up with Team Evil, and betray them to Team Good. Or side with Team Good from the get-go. Why? Because the thieving business is always much better when the naive good guys are in charge. Can you imagine Bane in charge? Mask's followers would be losing hands and eyes left and right with that guy running law and punishment.

- There is truth in both Kurtulmak's and Garl Glittergold's telling of events of what befell Kurtulmak's cavern's collapse when he was mortal. This, however, does not change how Kurtulmak feels, and he slays any emissaries the God of the Gnomes sends to try and explain things.

- Militant, Lawful Evil deities like Hextor and Bane oftentimes have positive reputations in many places they have influence. They're often keeping their communities safe (even if the security is heavy-handed). This one's fairly common though, as I understand it.

- The Lawful Good gods don't just leave the Blood War to the Devils. Particularly valorous and orderly gods such as Heironeous from Oerth and Tyr from Toril send mortal and immortal troops to aid the Devils in Avernus as auxiliaries as resources and time allows. They feel the forces of order together have the responsibility to support the war against chaos. Asmodeus may be secretly considering sparing their lives when his plans come to fruition and he overthrows the Good gods. Asmodeus has also allowed marriage between particularly competent mortals and erinyes, as well as offering permanent lodging to them. Publicly it's a reward for service. The public secret is he just hopes to corrupt them.

- Loviatar is extremely tsundere for Ilmater, given their overlap in portfolios, yet completely different approach and dogma.


If Ed Greenwood had anything to say about them, they probably are. He's been queering up the Realms since he started it.

To be fair, Greenwood's always been pretty randy. Lewd stuff is sprinkled pretty liberally throughout Forgotten Realms. Just read up on the ruler of Silverymoon.

Bohandas
2019-04-11, 08:19 PM
*Societies that have been influenced by baatezu soul collectors tend to have unnecessarily baroque and byzantine legal systems; this is to maximize the number of people who have either contributed or been complicit whenever a person is sentenced to death for somehing trivial

*Similarly, baatezu influenced societies often use public stoning as a means of execution. This allows an entire crowd to gain significant lawful evil karma at once

*Devil-influenced societies also tend to have a focus on fertility. People are encouraged to have as many children as possible and forbidden from using birth control. This maximizes the number of potential souls available to corrupt.

*Devil influenced societies also generate LE karma, shorten lifespans, and stabilize their hold on areas by engineerig periodic revolutions that don't change anything. The people mistrustful of the old regime are pacified and are now complicit in the new regime

*That's why they call it 'revolution'. Because it takes you back to where you startes

*The non-lawful alignment requirement for bards represents a tendency toward celebrity style erratic behavior

*generally divine magic manipulates the world in a top-down fashion and arcane magic manipulates it in a bottom-up fashion

*Zagyg could mop the floor with Elminster

Dragonexx
2019-04-12, 12:14 AM
The Lady of Pain actually isn't all that powerful. She only retains her position because the nature of Sigil prevents anyone strong enough to challenge her from entering.

PairO'Dice Lost
2019-04-12, 01:38 AM
That the Mystaran cosmology and the Great Wheel cosmology are alternate-timeline versions of each other, that the conflict between Law and Chaos is metacommentary on the split between BECMI and AD&D, and that the 4e cosmology is another timeline offshoot and metacommentary as the multiverse fractures further.

This is going to be long, and a little bit crazy, so buckle up, kids. Spoilered for wall o' text.

Canon
So, as Planescape fans know, the War of Law and Chaos happened roughly a bajillion years ago, between the forces of Chaos who wanted the multiverse to continue to exist in a mutable, formless state and the forces of Law who wanted reality to function according to natural laws, and the Law side eventually won. Also roughly a bajillion years ago, some indeterminate amount of time before the War, the cosmology preceding the Great Wheel was destroyed somehow, with only a few survivors managing to make it to the Great Wheel (notably the leShay and draedens).

That seems a bit fishy to me--old cosmology dies, everything trundles along for a few thousand years, then a multiverse-shaking conflict breaks out? Why wouldn't the war over reality start as soon as the old order died off? Plus, the official timeline talks about fundamental forces of Good, Evil, Law, Chaos, and Neutrality arising before the War, yet we know from the lore about the War itself that it was purely a Law/Chaos conflict with Neutrality in the middle; Good and Evil as forces hadn't arisen yet. Seems contradictory--probably Yugoloth propaganda.

Now, shifting over to Mystara, you have a beginning-of-the-multiverse conflict that's eerily similar: where Planescape had deities/planar lords of the Inner Planes of elements and the Outer Planes of order and Law fighting their opposites on the side of formless Chaos, Mystara has Immortals of the material spheres of Energy and Matter and immaterial spheres of Thought and Time fighting their opposites in the form of the Entities of the Void between the Stars and Immortals of the sphere of Entropy. For a supposedly entirely different previous cosmology, the parallels are striking.

And shifting out of character for a moment, the similarity there is due to the cosmologies of Mystara (in BECMI) and Planescape (in AD&D) both deriving from ideas in earlier D&D, though taken in quite different directions based on the demands on the game that made them split in the first place. The more complex system has a more complex and codified cosmology with a strong focus on the subsystems AD&D has and the other lacks (like two-axis alignment), while the less complex setting has a deep but flexible and largely un-filled-in cosmology focusing on the Immortals rules unique to BECMI.

Headcanon: BECMI vs. AD&D
Suppose that the Planescape timeline (which is already mostly extrapolation from possibly-mistaken dates from in-character blurbs in Planescape setting books) gets the timing wrong, and in fact the old cosmology "dies" at the same time the War of Law and Chaos starts. There wasn't a Great Wheel hanging around for a few millennia before the War, nor did existence implode into nothingness with the last cosmology. Rather, suppose that originally there was a proto-cosmology (that of OD&D, of course) in which alignments, elements, planes etc. existed but not in any state that modern beings would recognize. Originally, no concepts or substances were dominant over any others, though the alignments of Law, Neutrality, and Chaos were the strongest after a fashion, and the "supreme beings" (those beings that would later become known as Old Ones or Overpowers) were doing whatever it is that they do for fun, including creating the "powers" (those beings that would later become known as Immortals or deities/planar lords). Any creatures existing "before the multiverse" or "from the last multiverse" from the Great Wheel perspective, like draedens and leShay, would have come into being during this time along with various really-bleeping-old Great Wheel creatures like the Vaati, obyriths, and so forth.

Eventually Law, Neutrality, and Chaos started to come into conflict, and when the War of Law and Chaos broke out there was a three-way branching into different realities where Law, Neutrality, or Chaos was dominant (possibly intentional on the part of the supreme beings), each becoming a separate cosmology in a separate dimension and timeline.

AD&D is the timeline where Law was dominant, the War proceeded with the well-known organized forces, defined battles, and so forth of Planescape history, and Law won in the end, eventually shaping the multiverse into the highly-ordered alignment-based Great Wheel cosmology. The proto-cosmology didn't "die" in one cataclysmic event (though beings like the leShay may have been able to perceive the split in reality and interpret it as such, and an inability for chronomancers and such to go back past the point might give them that impression as well), but rather everything distinctly Mystaran either never arose during this version of the War or was destroyed or wiped out at some point on this timeline, and the integral nature of belief and faith in the Great Wheel caused the supreme beings and powers to end up as overpowers and deities/planar lords, respectively, and reinforce the Great Wheel's nature in a positive feedback loop.

BECMI is the timeline where Neutrality was dominant, the War never saw decisive victories or defeats and Law and Chaos fought until both sides were either worn down into a draw or forced into a truce by nascent powers of Neutrality, so the cosmology evolved in a much more balanced form and eventually became the Mystaran cosmology. In a reverse of the AD&D scenario, everything distinctly Planescape never arose or was destroyed in this timeline, and the greatly diminished prominence of faith and alignment caused the supreme beings and powers to end up as Old Ones and Immortals. Most of the original powers died off during the War because it dragged on so long with so many casualties, meaning that all current Mystaran Immortals are ascended mortals unaware of the proto-cosmology and so the current set think that Immortals have to come from mortals, with the obscure mentions of non-ascended Immortals being dismissed as myth.

What of the timeline where Chaos was dominant, and quickly won the War (assuming that a "war" as such even happened in the first place)? Well, the inhabitants of the Law timeline know it as the Far Realm and the inhabitants of the Neutrality timeline know it as the Dimension of Nightmares. :smallamused: The Far Realm seems utterly alien and alignment-less rather than Chaotic to Great Wheel inhabitants because the "Chaos" the Great Wheel knows and loves is really lowercase-c chaos, constrained by the rules of (and seen through the lens of) Law, while the Far Realm is Chaos on its own terms, a reality that is but cannot be, always will be and has never been. Meanwhile, the Dimension of Nightmares is somewhat less hostile to Mystara and its inhabitants because Mystara's cosmology isn't quite so fundamentally opposed to it, so that while the Dimension of Nightmares is still intensely alien to Mystara it isn't mind-breakingly incomprehensible to it the way the Far Realm is to the Great Wheel.

And of course, to continue the metacommentary, if Law is rules-heavy stats-for-everything AD&D and Neutrality is rules-medium lots-of-DM-rulings-required BECMI, Chaos being a no-rules stuff-just-happens blob of freeform RP, random tables, and DM fiat fits in nicely. :smallcool:

Headcanon: 4e
But there is a second timeline in which neither Law nor Chaos won the war, for there are two kinds of Neutrality. The Mystaran timeline embodies the kind of Neutrality that avoids extremes of either Law or Chaos because it views itself as a valid third ethical and cosmological option alongside the other two, but this fourth timeline (or fourth edition, one might say) embodies the kind of Neutrality that maximizes Law and Chaos because it views both ends of any extreme as equally valid and necessary. Rather than Law and Chaos coming to an eventual compromise brokered by Neutrality, in this multiverse Law and Chaos fought until Neutrality was eliminated, and Law and Chaos existed alongside each other in pockets such that the multiverse was generally ordered according to Law's design and contains more and stronger Law than even the Great Wheel, but Chaos is strong and widespread as well and its influence left it a cruel and broken mockery of the Great Wheel. (This multiverse actually arose long after the others, its War continuing long after the others' ended, but retrocontinuity allows for it to branch off the proto-cosmology at the same point in time.)

Where the Wheel has Inner Planes which are a regular geometric arrangement of elemental and energy planes at the poles with an ordered progression of para- and quasi-elemental planes in equal measures between them, the World Axis has a single undifferentiated Inner Plane; where the Wheel's Inner Planes were the domain of the original lords of Law, the Vaati, the heart of the World Axis's elemental plane is a seed of pure Chaos; where the Wheel posits gods and planar lords on both sides of the Law and Chaos war, the World Axis has primordials as essentially the incarnation of Chaotic elementals to further twist the knife in the heart of the Vaati's legacy.

Where the Wheel's Outer Planes are arranged in a symmetrical circle rotating around the "axle" of the Spire and Sigil, the World Axis has destroyed the axle (ironic, for something named after an Axis), shattered the wheel, and sent the planes floating off at random. Where in the Wheel breaches to the Far Realm are rare and contained and warlocks who draw upon fundamental chaos are rare and weak, in the World Axis warlocks drawing upon the Far Realm are plentiful and totally accepted.

Where the Wheel has Good and Evil to "anchor" and broaden Law and Chaos, the World Axis collapses Good and Evil into Law and Chaos, leaving them so polarized that there is no room for Neutrality, only a lack of alignment with Law or Chaos; where the Wheel has the Ethereal Plane and Plane of Shadow to actualize possibilities (new demiplanes, alternate Primes, and so forth) and allow travel between them, the World Axis has taken the former "chaotic" planes and smashed the Good ones into the Ethereal to create the Feywild and the Evil one into Shadow to create the Shadowfell.

Names of creatures, places, and concepts in the World Axis echo those in the Great Wheel--archons, eladrin, devils, demons, tieflings, warlocks, dragonborn...the list goes on--yet they are nothing alike. The Prime did not go unaffected, either, its worlds twisted and reflected into near-unrecognizability. Toril was brought low (its unique history and magic rendered down into chaos by Shar, the embodiment of darkness and entropy whose war with her sister Selûne at Toril's creation mirrors the wider Law/Chaos conflict, and the planet physically and temporally split into two worlds, one of Law and gods and one of Chaos and primortials) while Athas was raised up (magic and life flourishing, harshness dissipating, the desert retreating, and so forth); the Age of Mortals on Krynn marks the abandonment of the world by the gods and on Eberron the Draconic Prophecy is defied at every turn, the natural order of those worlds giving way to chaos.

In short, the World Axis is what happens if you actively try to invert the Great Wheel wherever possible. It is a mirror universe of sorts, the Great Wheel with a goatee, much like the Terran Empire is to the Federation in Star Trek, born of conflict and sustained in defiance of reason and natural law. Here, the metacommentary is left to the reader to avoid edition warring. :smallamused: But 4e is sufficiently different from what came before that viewing the entire thing as an alternate timeline makes a Hells of a lot more sense to me than, for instance, trying to pretend that the Spellplague had even the slightest shred of logic to it.


Oh, and what does the 3e MotP have to say about this theory?


http://i.imgur.com/AOkBtdp.png

Nothing to the far left, representing formless Chaos; then Mystara, with its Elemental Planes below and Outer Planes above, all connected via wormholes through the Ethereal; then the Great Wheel, in all its glory; then the World Axis, with Astral Sea above, Elemental Chaos below, and the Far Realm encircling it? Sounds about right to me. :smallcool:

Millstone85
2019-04-12, 04:51 AM
Spoilered for wall o' text.This was a very interesting read.

However, I feel that you forgot an important plot point of the World Axis. As the war between the gods and the primordials went on, the primal spirits came into existence, incorporating both astral and elemental essences. They are the ones who won the Mortal World, mainly by virtue of *being* the Mortal World, and they sent both the gods and the primordials back to their corners. So I wouldn't say that "Law and Chaos fought until Neutrality was eliminated", far from it.

Of course, this is Nentir Vale lore, a setting where none remembered any other cosmology than the World Axis. Forgotten Realms was a whole nother matter, with an attempt to include a shift in cosmology into the history of Toril.

Now, rather than ignore the Spellplague, I would imagine that it actually shifted Realmspace from one of your timelines to another. Among various unpleasantries, it caused a superposition with the native Realmspace of the World Axis, including an alternate Abeir-Toril commonly shortened to Abeir instead of Toril. Then, in 5e, the Second Sundering brought Realmspace back to the Great Wheel. Or did it? This Great Wheel is different. It has both four well-separated Elemental Planes and an Elemental Chaos. The Energy Planes are not among the Inner Planes, instead being outer-er than the Outer Planes. The Feywild and the Shadowfell border the Material Plane. Could it be yet another timeline?

Bohandas
2019-04-12, 10:16 AM
The Lady of Pain actually isn't all that powerful. She only retains her position because the nature of Sigil prevents anyone strong enough to challenge her from entering.

That sounds about right to me. She doesn't really seem to do anything to justify her reputation other than making the occasional person disappear. Even Fidel Castro could do that.

Also, it goes a way towards explaining why she never leaves sigil (although my personal headcanon is that she's a local spirit of the city, the city's actual soul as it were, and can't leave it; or that if she did leave it she'd become weak and powerless, her power level flipping from being equal to the importance of Sigil to people who live in Sigil to instead being equal to the importance of Sigil to people who DON'T live in Sigil - even those who have heard of it probably don't care unless either it's the only (non-hellish) planar metropolis they know of or they're transporting something across planes that actually meets the parameters to be convenient to transport via Sigil (there need to be known portals near their start and destination. The things being transported need to be small enough to fit. They need to have the correct portal keys. The Infinite Staircase and River Oceanus must not provide a shorter route. There can't be a direct portal. They can't be or be friends with a high-level spellcaster or powerful outsider who will planeshift everything instantly for free)


EDIT:
On a similar note, Lord Ao from Realmspace may be in a similar situation regarding being the spirit of a location

Yora
2019-04-12, 01:02 PM
I think the Lady is part of Sigil. She couldn't even exist outside of this little demiplane. At least not in a form in any way comparable to her current one.

EccentricCircle
2019-04-12, 03:10 PM
Wall of Text

I love this. Very well thought out and presented.

I've always thought that the idea that the planes changed from one edition to another made no sense, and that the different cosmologies are just different models for describing relationships between the planes.

Since the planes are metaphysical it is impossible to actually plot their positions in "space", and there are so many different ways that they relate to one another that they will appear in different places depending on what axes you use to plot their positions. Thus no model is correct, and mortals don't really understand the forces they are trying to describe anyway.

I think that the Great Wheel makes most sense as a model created by Planar beings. It plots the moral and ethical relationships between the Outer Planes, the Elemental natures of the inner planes and the transitive planes are grouped by which regions of the multiverse they link. I see this as essentially a Political Map of the planes.

The World Axis has a different function, and I think it was more likely created by Primes. It groups the planes by what they are like to explore, and how they "fit together" for someone trying to traverse them in the same way they would the material world.

Thus the Outer Planes can be thought of as floating in an Astral Sea. It is a legitimate way to get from one to another, and if you are a hapless prime that's probably how you will initially try to do it. Its only once you get used to Planescape that you learn where the portals are, and which outerplanes are morally and ethically opposed.
Likewise the Elemental Chaos is probably closer to the actual state of the inner planes, its a jumble of matter and energy all mixed together, and centered on the abyss. However regions of each element are so vast that its only in a few isolated places (the very edges of the Paraelemental regions) that the underlying turbulence is visible. The different regions are also interconnected, so that if you know the trick you can get from one pocket of fire to another without having to pass thorough any of that nasty water. Its only inexperienced planar travellers who get dumped into regions where its all mixed up and chaotic.

PairO'Dice Lost
2019-04-12, 03:10 PM
This was a very interesting read.

However, I feel that you forgot an important plot point of the World Axis. As the war between the gods and the primordials went on, the primal spirits came into existence, incorporating both astral and elemental essences. They are the ones who won the Mortal World, mainly by virtue of *being* the Mortal World, and they sent both the gods and the primordials back to their corners. So I wouldn't say that "Law and Chaos fought until Neutrality was eliminated", far from it.

Of course, this is Nentir Vale lore, a setting where none remembered any other cosmology than the World Axis. Forgotten Realms was a whole nother matter, with an attempt to include a shift in cosmology into the history of Toril.

Firstly, yeah, as far as I'm aware (and granted I haven't delved too deep into 4e lore, because bleh :smallwink:), the existence and nature of primal spirits differs by Prime world; the ones on Nentir Vale's Prime are active and distinct from the gods, but the ones on Athas are either dead or largely insane while the "primal spirits" on Toril are in fact nature deities that that sphere's druids label differently.

Secondly, it's not that powerful beings that are allied with neither Law nor Chaos were eliminated in that timeline, but that Neutrality as a cosmic force is gone. There are no Outlands or Planes of Conflict, no exemplar races of Neutrality, no spheres aligned with Neutrality over Law or Chaos, no organizations dedicated to upholding the balance between Law and Chaos, and no magic of Neutrality, and the "Neutral" alignment itself is gone, NG/LN and NE/CN having been collapsed into LG and CE respectively and True Neutral (the more "active" neutrality, which in theory would make more sense for this world if its alignment framework supported it) is gone, leaving only a lack of alignment in its place. The primal spirits of Valespace may have kicked the gods and primordials out of that particular realm, but they did so as a "get off my lawn" sort of thing rather than as a philosophical statement on balance between the gods and primordials.


Now, rather than ignore the Spellplague, I would imagine that it actually shifted Realmspace from one of your timelines to another. Among various unpleasantries, it caused a superposition with the native Realmspace of the World Axis, including an alternate Abeir-Toril commonly shortened to Abeir instead of Toril. Then, in 5e, the Second Sundering brought Realmspace back to the Great Wheel. Or did it? This Great Wheel is different. It has both four well-separated Elemental Planes and an Elemental Chaos. The Energy Planes are not among the Inner Planes, instead being outer-er than the Outer Planes. The Feywild and the Shadowfell border the Material Plane. Could it be yet another timeline?

I don't ignore the Spellplague, I just don't try to reconcile it with Great Wheel FR as if it makes any logical sense. :smallamused: In this headcanon, the Spellplague does indeed happen on the World Axis timeline, but the Great Wheel timeline is unaffected; different Realms-Shaking Events most likely continue to happen, but as short-duration localized events along the lines of the Avatar Crisis or very subtle ones along the lines of the Lady's alterations at the end of Die Vecna Die (which didn't actually have a Realms-specific manifestation), because anything as blatant, illogical, overwhelming, and destructive as the Spellplague is clearly impossible in a Law-dominated cosmology like the Wheel.

The 5e cosmology, meanwhile, I view as being one Prime's interpretation of the actual Great Wheel cosmology. It's entirely possible for sealed spheres like Darkspace (Athas) and Shardspace (Eberron) to have different links to the overarching Wheel cosmology due to local conditions or for normally-linked spheres like Krynn to have infrequent enough interactions with the planes that they have different names or diagrams for the normal planes, after all. The 5e map of the planes looks like what a sage would create if he comes from a Prime with slightly abnormal planar relations: this Prime world probably has a coexistent Plane of Faerie-like demiplane that cuts off Ethereal links in the same way Athas has the Grey, has few enough links to the Energy Planes that the locals think they're "farther" than the Outer Planes, and has enough common enough interactions with both Ravenloft and the Plane of Shadow that it conflates them into a single plane.

That setup would also, incidentally, explain the utterly stupid "every world uses the Weave" 5e retcon. If the core 5e world has a Weave, and a spellcaster from the main 5e Prime travels to Toril and sees that it has a Weave too, he might extrapolate that everywhere has one, because what are the chances that he just happens to run into the one other Prime with a Weave? (Quite high, actually, as Toril is definitely the Prime world most reachable by and welcoming to travelers from other Primes, but he has no way of knowing that.)


On a similar note, Lord Ao from Realmspace may be in a similar situation regarding being the spirit of a location

Another headcanon of mine is that "overgods" aren't a distinct category of being at all, they're just normal deities pulling a fast one on the rest of the gods.

So, gods gain power based on the prominence of their portfolio, amount and strength of prayer, number of lay worshipers and clergy, and similar factors, modulo a given Prime's mechanics of godhood, right? Well, if you can have Lathander as the god of the sun, Bane as the god of tyranny, and so forth, there's no reason you couldn't have Ao the god of divinity. And just like Bane can see and hear around subjects of tyranny and acts of tyranny, know the future of tyrannical acts and organizations, use tyranny-related magic and grant or deny power to those who draw on the concept of Tyranny, manipulate the bodies and minds of mortals within his sphere of influence, and so forth, Ao would be able to see and hear around the gods, know what the gods are up to, grant or deny deific powers, control the gods' bodies and minds, and so forth, and just as Lathander could control the sun itself and alter its properties, Ao could grant or strip divinity to and from the gods and change the way worship and goodhood work. This would make him appear to be effectively omnipotent and omniscient to the gods in the same way that Mystra appears effectively omniscient and omnipotent to a mortal wizard.

Evidence for this:

1) New gods can come into existence (and existing gods can be changed) when mortal belief in a given concept is strong enough. No one knew about Ao until the Time of Troubles (and the gods didn't appear to know about him for much longer before that), and crediting him as the creator of Realmspace contradicts what sages know of the Selûne/Shar creation myth, so sure, he might have been a hands-off overgod for years until he felt forced to step in in a way he never did before or since...or perhaps growing mortal dissatisfaction with the gods caused Ao to coalesce around the portfolio of regulating divinity (with "worship, godhood, gods, and divine magic" as his portfolio and Cynosure as his divine realm), use his power over the gods to make them believe he'd always been around, use his power over godhood and worship to cause himself to draw power from gods instead of mortals, use his suddenly-massive reserves of divine power to retroactively block the greater gods' future sight of his ascension and actions, and use the Time of Troubles to show off and solidify his control over his portfolio in the same way a new god might appear to his worshipers and do some miracle-working and/or smiting to show them he's in charge.

2) During the Avatar Crisis, Cyric appeared to gain enough power to be able to challenge Ao when no other god was, and Ao appeared to be concerned or even afraid of this. Completely unreasonable if Ao is actually an overgod who's all-powerful within Toril...but much more reasonable if he's just a god trying to pull one over on the gods exactly like Cyric was doing with his Cyric-is-the-one-true-god maneuver with the Cyrinishad, and Ao's portfolio of "the gods" ran head-first into Cyric's new portfolio of "monotheism" and he couldn't exert nearly as much power over Cyric for that reason.

The scene where Cyric challenges Ao in Cynosure, Ao is surprised, and he has to actually try to shut Cyric down certainly reads to me like Ao trying and failing to overpower Cyric's divine powers, then realizing that, hey, Cynosure is his divine realm, he has home ground advantage, and cheats to squeak out a win that way, and then as soon as Cyric really believes that Ao actually does have power over him, well, belief begets reality and Ao is in control again.

3) The High God of Krynn pulls basically the same stunt Ao does. The gods are squabbling and ignoring the mortals, the High God steps in and lays down the law in a way that implies that he can't just wave his hand and change things while claiming to be "as high above the gods as the gods are above mortals," and then once he's made his big debut he steps back and pretends to run things from behind the scenes.

noob
2019-04-12, 04:22 PM
Ao is actually a random housecat.
The gods just pretends ao makes them take unpopular measures such as keeping the wall of the faithless(while it was only the mediocre gods which stopped getting worship which decided to put it back after the really nice gods destroyed it and not an overgod which imposed that to the gods).

Malphegor
2019-04-12, 05:57 PM
Dragonborn are really just big kobolds and appreciate non-dragonborn loudly recognising them as thus.

Humans tend to win races. Because of their bonus feet.

Asmodeus is actually weakened by mottal Disciples of Asmodeus, and is slightly fearful of what happens if someone loves him so much it actually destroys him if they tap into his power. His overcompensating on the evil is a bid to prevent this.

Ambrosia (from book of exalted deeds, magical happy juice angels can’t stop drinking down) has the consistency and taste of custard.

Bohandas
2019-04-12, 06:51 PM
Ambrosia (from book of exalted deeds, magical happy juice angels can’t stop drinking down) has the consistency and taste of custard.

Conversely, Liquid Pain (its Book of Gile Darkness counterpart) looks like creamed corn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ax1ZIpyiY8)

a_flemish_guy
2019-04-12, 10:02 PM
- primus is actually just an avatar of mechanus itself which is why he reforms from a modron if he's killed

- kobolds turn into troglodytes when they're older, also all kobolds are male and trogs are female

- illithyds will come about as a direct result of githyanki actions

- halflings are actually dwarf-elf hybrids

- 6 orks vs 2 hobgoblins is more fair of a fight then 2 orks vs 1 hobgoblin

Millstone85
2019-04-13, 12:55 PM
https://i.imgur.com/E0Xag08.png
3e Faiths and Pantheons page 112: illustration by Ben Templesmith.
https://i.imgur.com/YUkQ41r.png
4e Monster Manual page 126: gibbering mouther, gibbering abomination and gibbering orb.
5e Monster Manual page 28: beholder.

hymer
2019-04-13, 12:59 PM
Troglodytes are corrupted lizardfolk. They come from eggs stolen by sahuagin, and the most dangerous and organized troglodytes are the sharkfolk's main weapon in hilly terrain.

noob
2019-04-13, 02:17 PM
https://i.imgur.com/E0Xag08.png
3e Faiths and Pantheons page 112: illustration by Ben Templesmith.
https://i.imgur.com/YUkQ41r.png
4e Monster Manual page 126: gibbering mouther, gibbering abomination and gibbering orb.
5e Monster Manual page 28: beholder.
so by achieving perceived "perfection" it becomes weaker than in its previous state?
(gibbering orbs are super powerful)

Millstone85
2019-04-13, 03:53 PM
so by achieving perceived "perfection" it becomes weaker than in its previous state?
(gibbering orbs are super powerful)The creature may be more powerful with the voices of all its victims, but the one that silences the others only cares about escaping this hell of cacophony and melting flesh. It does so through unyielding willpower, all-devouring ego, and furious desire for a form of its own, leading to the typical beholder mindset.

When a gibbering orb does not transform, keeps on collecting voices, grows much larger than a beholder, and starts showing signs of cunning under the apparent madness, that is indeed really bad news. Some scholars consider beholders to be failed gibbering orbs. Oddly, they tend to disappear in mysterious circumstances, especially around Waterdeep.

Luccan
2019-04-13, 07:10 PM
Thanks to a thread in 5e subforum: There are several elf-like creatures referred to as Eladrin (the most notable being a type of celestial, a more fey creature, and the ones that claim to be closest to the first elves). Their actual level of relation to elves varies.

pwning doodes
2019-04-13, 09:55 PM
Draconic kind of sounds like Hebrew.

Bohandas
2019-04-13, 11:22 PM
Elvish sounds like a mashup of French, Mandarin Chinese, and Ancient Egyptian.

Theoboldi
2019-04-14, 12:12 PM
- Asmodeus is not nearly as powerful nor influental as most people think he is. There is no Pact Primeval, he never was a god, and he does not even have any sort of meaningful control over hell and the rest of the archdevils.

What he does have, however, is a vast propaganda machine across the planes that has managed to convince most of the material plane and many mortals elsewhere of these lies.

- The upper planes and many angles are actually very actively involved in the blood war, though they act mostly only to mitigate collateral damage and to protect innocents that would otherwise get involved in the conflict.

- The Wall of the Faithless wasn't created by anyone, it is just the natural endpoint for any souls without divine protection in the Realms. Most gods are extremely frustrated that some souls still end up in it, given that they offer free access to afterlives that are in their opinion obvious paradises.

- Most demons enjoy playing into the mortal stereotype that they are not as subtle or intelligent as devils, as it makes it easier to trick them.

- The Oard (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17120/CM6-Where-Chaos-Reigns-Basic&affiliate_id=35526) are totally canon and in their original timeline eventually turn into the Illithid. And I don't care how little sense that makes.

noob
2019-04-14, 01:07 PM
- The Wall of the Faithless wasn't created by anyone, it is just the natural endpoint for any souls without divine protection in the Realms. Most gods are extremely frustrated that some souls still end up in it, given that they offer free access to afterlives that are in their opinion obvious paradises.


even if it was not created.
1: It can be destroyed(maybe it reforms later but it can).
2: You can grab souls from it(demons do so constantly)
So the gods are still leaving souls naturally come in the wall and rot instead of for example just grabbing the souls in it.
And no it is not free access if I have to say "I respect that god which is intensely evil and did tons of bad things" even if it was for eternal life it would be quite a consequent cost since all the gods did awful things ranging from killing people to eating other gods(yes including a good god eating another good god and somehow it did not instantly become chaotic evil while any player doing so would no matter the situation be turned chaotic evil by the majority of the gms)
While if it was "ok I do not respect you but can I still go in your afterlife" there would be way less people in the wall of the faithless.

Theoboldi
2019-04-14, 02:32 PM
even if it was not created.
1: It can be destroyed(maybe it reforms later but it can).
2: You can grab souls from it(demons do so constantly)
So the gods are still leaving souls naturally come in the wall and rot instead of for example just grabbing the souls in it.
And no it is not free access if I have to say "I respect that god which is intensely evil and did tons of bad things" even if it was for eternal life it would be quite a consequent cost since all the gods did awful things ranging from killing people to eating other gods(yes including a good god eating another good god and somehow it did not instantly become chaotic evil while any player doing so would no matter the situation be turned chaotic evil by the majority of the gms)
While if it was "ok I do not respect you but can I still go in your afterlife" there would be way less people in the wall of the faithless.
Uh, not to be rude, but could you write that up with a couple of paragraph breaks and better punctuation? I have a very hard time reading what you are posting.

Bad Wolf
2019-04-15, 02:36 AM
I always liked the idea of Sigil being a cage for the Lady. Have you noticed how the spire doesn't have any effect on those in the city? That's because its all focused on one person in particular. But despite all that, she can still kill gods. Uh-oh.


Asmodeus-canon: Yes, he is actually a giant bleeding serpent that sends out avatars to pretend to be him. The FC already says that his exile from heaven wasnt cheery, so that origin story doesn't exclude it from being true.

He also doesn't move against Mephistopheles, despite his blatant rebellion, because he's afraid of his consort, who's one of the baatorians. This one I adopted from afroakuma.

Demon-canon that I just made: Demon princes/rulers can't be good. As soon as one falls towards neutral on the alignment scale, the Abyss lashes against it and someone new takes its throne.



Totally silly: If Ragnorra crashed into Atropus, the surge of positive and negative energy would cancel each other out and everything would be fine.

Yora
2019-04-15, 03:03 AM
- The Oard (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17120/CM6-Where-Chaos-Reigns-Basic&affiliate_id=35526) are totally canon and in their original timeline eventually turn into the Illithid. And I don't care how little sense that makes.

Oard are the biggest knockoff nobody ever talks about.

Khedrac
2019-04-15, 03:37 AM
Oard are the biggest knockoff nobody ever talks about.

Knock off from what? If you mean Star Trek's The Borg then the module was published in 1985 but Star Trek: The Next Generation aired in 1987 and the first Borg episoed was (I think) "Q Who?" in season 2 - so broadcast in 1989. The Borg would be the knock-off here.
I doubt if any 2nd season episodes had been written before season 1 did well enough to get the seocnd season confirmed.

Personal head canons:

Wrath of the Immortals never happens.
The big pearl on the Isle of Dread is actually an artifact with the side effect of causing the prehistoric plant growth and dinosaurs in the surrpoinding area.
The Rakasta and Phanaton on the Ilse of dread get there as part of a trial of manhood from enighbouring islands (trying to retrieve the eye of a statue of their god[immortal]) - the rakasta use big oar-powered outrigger canoes and the phanaton use small kite-powered coracles.

Millstone85
2019-04-15, 04:19 AM
The upper planes and many angles are actually very actively involved in the blood war, though they act mostly only to mitigate collateral damage and to protect innocents that would otherwise get involved in the conflict.I think that one is canon. It is just not usually counted as being actively involved in the Blood War.

On a related note, celestial angles totally are a thing. They live in Arcadia and look like this:
https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2017/5-19/new7MzD7pK-2.png

The Wall of the Faithless wasn't created by anyone, it is just the natural endpoint for any souls without divine protection in the Realms. Most gods are extremely frustrated that some souls still end up in it, given that they offer free access to afterlives that are in their opinion obvious paradises.Like noob said, it would take much extra work to make the existence of the Wall any palatable.


The Oard (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17120/CM6-Where-Chaos-Reigns-Basic&affiliate_id=35526) are totally canon and in their original timeline eventually turn into the Illithid. And I don't care how little sense that makes.For a less obvious Borg-like creature, I really love the kaortis. They were originally humanoids, most likely elves or humans, who went to explore the Far Realm in some kind of diving gear. Now they are mostly known for wearing armor assembled from bandages made of a resin-like material they secrete. They also make nests out of the stuff, called kaorti cysts. Their bodies are full of little symbiotes they can inject in other humanoids to transform them into kaortis, and they plan mass assimilation. They are also the creators and masters of various aberrations such as skybleeders, rukanyrs and kaortic hulks.

I can imagine them being lead by a female daelkyr who totally looks like the Borg Queen.


Oard are the biggest knockoff nobody ever talks about.
Knock off from what? If you mean Star Trek's The Borg then the module was published in 1985 but Star Trek: The Next Generation aired in 1987 and the first Borg episoed was (I think) "Q Who?" in season 2 - so broadcast in 1989. The Borg would be the knock-off here.
I doubt if any 2nd season episodes had been written before season 1 did well enough to get the seocnd season confirmed.Interesting. After seeing the Ood in Doctor Who, who are an obvious plagiary of the illithids, complete with ceremorphosis and elder brain, I am ready to believe this.

Theoboldi
2019-04-15, 05:35 AM
I think that one is canon. It is just not usually counted as being actively involved in the Blood War.
*shrugs*

I've seen it claimed often enough that the angels keep out of the war completely. For my own games, I prefer it this way since it both makes them look less spineless and also because it can provide more adventure hooks.


On a related note, celestial angles totally are a thing. They live in Arcadia and look like this:
https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2017/5-19/new7MzD7pK-2.png
Ah dangit. Stupid common spelling mistakes....


Like noob said, it would take much extra work to make the existence of the Wall any palatable.
Eh, taking away the gods being responsible for it is mostly enough for me. Do mind, that is not the full extent of how it differs in my games. Nobody, especially not demons can take any souls from it, there is nobody trying to protect it, and destroying it is akin to trying to destroy gravity. It's less of a divine construct and more of a force of nature. Beyond that, it remains as a vague bit of cosmic horror that only divine beings can provide an imperfect protection from. Which I quite enjoy.

Not that it matters, I guess. It's been quite some time since I've last played D&D and anything in the realms. And I never was fully up to stuff on all the lore in the first place.


For a less obvious Borg-like creature, I really love the kaortis. They were originally humanoids, most likely elves or humans, who went to explore the Far Realm in some kind of diving gear. Now they are mostly known for wearing armor assembled from bandages made of a resin-like material they secrete. They also make nests out of the stuff, called kaorti cysts. Their bodies are full of little symbiotes they can inject in other humanoids to transform them into kaortis, and they plan mass assimilation. They are also the creators and masters of various aberrations such as skybleeders, rukanyrs and kaortic hulks.

I can imagine them being lead by a female daelkyr who totally looks like the Borg Queen.

Honestly I am just happy that people remember that module and the Oard at all. I've had a fun time running a modified version of it in Godbound. Mostly cause I'm a huge sucker for the trope of humans turning themselves into some kind of horrible cyber species. These Kaortis sound interesting though, will have to read up on them. They sound very Xenomorph-esque.

Eldan
2019-04-15, 07:42 AM
The angels are not a unified force. THey do whatever their god commands them to do. I'm sure there are some good gods around who would meddle in the war, but I don't think I've ever seen it written up.

Celestials, though... it's established canon that Celestia thinks that Hell is of course a terrible place, but also the best bet anyone has to stop the Abyss from destroying the multiverse eventually, so they support hell with resources, at least, but probably not troops. At least not openly. The Eladrin, meanwhile, hate the Abyss too much to help them, what with capturing and torturing all their children, but they are extremely goood at helping mortals topple the lawful evil social structures that hell needs for soul support.

noob
2019-04-15, 08:14 AM
The angels are not a unified force. THey do whatever their god commands them to do. I'm sure there are some good gods around who would meddle in the war, but I don't think I've ever seen it written up.

Celestials, though... it's established canon that Celestia thinks that Hell is of course a terrible place, but also the best bet anyone has to stop the Abyss from destroying the multiverse eventually, so they support hell with resources, at least, but probably not troops. At least not openly. The Eladrin, meanwhile, hate the Abyss too much to help them, what with capturing and torturing all their children, but they are extremely goood at helping mortals topple the lawful evil social structures that hell needs for soul support.

For each LE governor with great skills at organization killed hell becomes better organized.
Support the devils by killing the skilled lawful evil people!

Millstone85
2019-04-15, 09:00 AM
Celestials, though... it's established canon that Celestia thinks that Hell is of course a terrible place, but also the best bet anyone has to stop the Abyss from destroying the multiverse eventually, so they support hell with resources, at least, but probably not troops. At least not openly.Conversely, the Abyss might be the best bet to stop Hell from ruling the multiverse. So I imagine celestials, including angels, would mostly deal with yugoloths, as these fiends thrive on the Blood War itself.

And yes, I know that neutral evil can be interpreted as pure evil, and thus the worst of the three. But what is the yugoloths' plan for the multiverse? Nobody knows, and that's what makes it so scary? Meh.


For each LE governor with great skills at organization killed hell becomes better organized.
Support the devils by killing the skilled lawful evil people!Except they would die anyway, and pretty fast by devil standards.

Yora
2019-04-15, 09:17 AM
Knock off from what? If you mean Star Trek's The Borg then the module was published in 1985 but Star Trek: The Next Generation aired in 1987 and the first Borg episoed was (I think) "Q Who?" in season 2 - so broadcast in 1989. The Borg would be the knock-off here.

Indeed.

And they took it even further in First Contact. There's a quote in the movie that could be the back cover text for Where Chaos Reigns: "A group of cybernetic creatures, from the future, have traveled back in time to enslave the human race. And you're here to stop them?"

And nobody can claim coincidence when the 1985 ilustration looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/TSK1SAS.png

If someone puts a Star Trek creature into D&D, that's not news. D&D shamelessly absorbs everything. But an obscure D&D monster being adapted that straight to Star Trek is something you really wouldn't expect.
Though in all fairness, they do fit much better in Star Trek than D&D.

Bohandas
2019-04-15, 11:50 AM
I thought the Borg were a ripoff of the Cybermen (first appearance 1966)

Theoboldi
2019-04-15, 04:19 PM
And nobody can claim coincidence when the 1985 ilustration looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/TSK1SAS.png

Okay, that is actually kind of jaw dropping. They even have those same weird bumps as the Oard.

Millstone85
2019-04-16, 02:37 AM
the module was published in 1985 but Star Trek: The Next Generation aired in 1987
the 1985 ilustration looks like this
Okay, that is actually kind of jaw dropping. They even have those same weird bumps as the Oard.If I am following correctly, this is a picture of the Oard.

Theoboldi
2019-04-16, 04:58 AM
If I am following correctly, this is a picture of the Oard.

Is it? Currently away from my books, but I have the module and I don't recall any illustrations that look like this one. The art style isn't even remotely similar. Did they appear outside of the module, in one of the Monster Manuals? :smallconfused:

Khedrac
2019-04-16, 07:01 AM
Is it? Currently away from my books, but I have the module and I don't recall any illustrations that look like this one. The art style isn't even remotely similar. Did they appear outside of the module, in one of the Monster Manuals? :smallconfused:

It is. I thought it was the picture form CM6 but it might be the picture from the original Creature Catalog (AC9 - 1986) as I definitely recognise it.

Theoboldi
2019-04-16, 08:11 AM
It is. I thought it was the picture form CM6 but it might be the picture from the original Creature Catalog (AC9 - 1986) as I definitely recognise it.

Interesting! I was unaware they were mentioned anywhere beyond the module. That had me thinking I was looking at some early Borg concept art for a while.

Luccan
2019-04-16, 02:33 PM
FWIW, the Borg were originally going to be bugs, not cyborgs. They might have been "inspired" by the oard and/or cybermen later, but their original concept was as an insectoid species. It was dropped due to budget concerns.

Malphegor
2019-04-16, 02:48 PM
Feather tokens probably weren’t invented by the Mazticans of the Forgotten Realms, but it does bear a strong similarity to the talismans they make with Pluma magic in 2e, and as such feather tokens are always going to be common in aztec-themed dungeons in any game I run.

Bohandas
2019-04-16, 08:10 PM
FWIW, the Borg were originally going to be bugs, not cyborgs. They might have been "inspired" by the oard and/or cybermen later, but their original concept was as an insectoid species. It was dropped due to budget concerns.

Also, ultimately what they really are is zombies, moreso than they're like anything else. In fact, I think Star Trek is actually one to the best implementations out there of the whole "zombie apocalypse" trope

Yora
2019-04-18, 02:23 PM
Owlbears are natural animals. They are a type of dinosaur.

Bohandas
2019-04-21, 01:33 PM
From Gygax himself (see his article in POLYHEDRON #21 Nov 1984, p.9, and later mentioned in Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, p.91) the official worlds connected to Oerth were Earth, Aerth (detailed in the Epic of Ærth sourcebook for Gygax's Dangerous Journeys roleplaying game), Yarth (the Conan/Kull-like setting for Gygax's Sagard the Barbarian choose-your-own-adventure books), and Uerth (a mirror-version of Oerth detailed in Expedition…).

I imagine the Uerth characters having goatees even if they're children or women, just like the South Park episode with the evil parallel universe

Bohandas
2019-04-21, 10:40 PM
*Sigil's national anthem sounds exactly like the old Doors Unlimited jingle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZnrHQsjoxc)

*Halflings are colloqually known collectively as "the shorty" and are known for their tunnels and pipeweed

*Older dragons' hoards are mostly in copper because their size rapidly outpaces their wealth and so to sleep on a pile of coins they need to have it changed for smaller denominations. It also makes it harder to steal.

*A Mirror of Opposition that is left turned on and uncovered will accumulate a pile of dead rats and flies in a semicircle around the front

*Erandis d'Vol is known as "Randi" to her friends

PairO'Dice Lost
2019-04-22, 01:23 PM
Prices for magic items and other very expensive goods being the same in almost every setting isn't (just) a simplification to avoid putting local price fluctuation mechanics in the DMG. Rather, all of the major metropolises on the various Primes are connected by enough spelljammer routes, portals, teleportation circles, and similar, and the major trading groups (mercanes, the Factions, Prime guilds, etc.) have access to sufficient divinations, to ensure that the multiversal magic item trade has essentially optimal prices.

For instance, if every magic item merchant in Waterdeep decided to collude to raise prices on, say, cloaks of resistance +4, any high-level adventurer who wanted one could pop on over to Sigil, Union, Dis, the City of Brass, Greyhawk, the Rock of Bral, Sharn.... and pick one up at the standard price; if a new vein of adamantine is found on a particular Prime, planar traders can find out about it and add it to their list of thousands of adamantine sources throughout the multiverse; and so forth.

In more humorous campaigns, there may be an explicit mercantile council overseeing pricing policies, the Wizardry, Artifice, Logistics, Magic, And Retail Teleportation Company, or WALMART Co. :smallamused:

Bohandas
2019-04-23, 12:05 AM
Xagig is not Zagyg's only active evil twin

*Iuz's good Uerth twin is named Luz and his symbol is a smiley face

Bohandas
2019-04-25, 03:21 PM
All of the other alignments are equally close to true neutral

LibraryOgre
2019-04-25, 07:20 PM
All of the other alignments are equally close to true neutral

So, more of a circle surrounding True Neutral, rather than the traditional grid (which put the non-neutral alignments a bit further from true neutral than the part-neutral alignments)?

PhoenixPhyre
2019-04-25, 07:50 PM
So, more of a circle surrounding True Neutral, rather than the traditional grid (which put the non-neutral alignments a bit further from true neutral than the part-neutral alignments)?

I'd almost go the other way, personally.

I see the N[G/E] alignments as being focused more on G/E than on L/C, so they're "more Good/Evil" than their mixed counterparts, while the same holds true for the [L/C]N in the other axis. A LG person has to balance L and G when they interact, while a NG person or a LN person only has to care about one axis.

So topologically I'd go more of a 4-pointed star, if I used alignment as anything fundamental at all.

Bohandas
2019-04-25, 08:07 PM
So, more of a circle surrounding True Neutral, rather than the traditional grid (which put the non-neutral alignments a bit further from true neutral than the part-neutral alignments)?

Yeah. After all, the whole "great wheel" idea od the outer planes kind of implies it

PairO'Dice Lost
2019-04-25, 11:17 PM
I'd almost go the other way, personally.

I see the N[G/E] alignments as being focused more on G/E than on L/C, so they're "more Good/Evil" than their mixed counterparts, while the same holds true for the [L/C]N in the other axis. A LG person has to balance L and G when they interact, while a NG person or a LN person only has to care about one axis.

So topologically I'd go more of a 4-pointed star, if I used alignment as anything fundamental at all.

Early D&D had more of a four-pointed star view as well, but the other way around: the "extreme" alignments of LG/CG/LE/CE were viewed as being more devoted to their alignment than the neutrals, because it was viewed less as NG and LN being pure and LG balancing two competing interests and more as LG having taken a stand on both the cosmic struggles of Law vs. Chaos and Good vs. Evil while NG and LN were being wishy-washy on one of the two.

The vast majority of intelligent monsters fell into the four extreme alignments, to the point that there's not a single NG/NE/LN/CN creature in the AD&D MM, just a few "Neutral with X tendencies" or "Any Chaotic" monsters; the Great Wheel counts the "Lawful/Chaotic with Good/Evil tendencies" planes among the Upper or Lower Planes and only really views Elysium/Hades/Mechanus/Limbo as "neutral" planes, as opposed to having wider bands of neutrality with the "extreme" alignment planes being on their own; and the Holmes B/X and 1e AD&D alignment chart wasn't a grid, but instead looked like this:


https://sharpenyourgame.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/align2.jpg

Particle_Man
2019-04-26, 12:06 PM
In fact, didn't OD&D only have 5 alignments? LG, CE, CG, LE and N?

It explains why even now we still have pages and pages for Devils and Demons, not as much for Yugoloths (or other NE extraplanars). LN has modrons and formians and . . . I don't even know. CN has slaads and . . . I don't even know. NG has animal people, because why the heck not. Dragons also tend to the 4 diagonal alignments (especially the Top Ten in the MM).

Similarly, it took a long time before NG paladins became options in core. Even the optional paladin rules in 3rd ed went for the diagonals (Paladin of Freedom, Slaughter, Tyranny). Although Blackguards could be NE so there is that. That said, druids broke out of N and branched out into the orthogonals in third (NE, NG, LN and CN) so there is that. Plus the Incarnates, I suppose. What? *I* like them, ok? :smallsmile:

Here's a head canon I haven't tried yet: All 1st generation Gods are alternate reality versions of each other. This does not mean they get along and they were all surprised to see each other as it took the initial creation of the prime material universe for them to appear to each other.

PairO'Dice Lost
2019-04-26, 01:07 PM
In fact, didn't OD&D only have 5 alignments? LG, CE, CG, LE and N?

Not exactly. Originally there was just Law, Neutrality, and Chaos, inherited from Chainmail. Gygax, in articles in Strategic Review and Dragon Magazine, added Good and Evil, so you had Good, Evil, Law, Chaos, and Neutrality; he didn't have the combined alignments, but he did lay out planes for those slots in the grid (and interestingly Elysium was originally the CG plane, with "Paradise" taking the NG slot). Holmes Basic D&D switched it up to LG, CG, LE, CE, and N with no neutrals, and BECMI went back to just L/N/C as AD&D codified all nine alignments.


It explains why even now we still have pages and pages for Devils and Demons, not as much for Yugoloths (or other NE extraplanars). LN has modrons and formians and . . . I don't even know. CN has slaads and . . . I don't even know. NG has animal people, because why the heck not.

I think the reason yugoloths are less detailed is that (A) demons and devils came in with the AD&D MM but "daemons" (as they were called then) were introduced in adventure modules and the Fiend Folio and (B) devils and demons got plenty of flavor attention in the main books but yugoloths were really only fleshed out in Planescape, so there's less material to draw on and less of a legacy to work with.

LN has inevitables as of 3e (technically 1e, since the marut showed up then, but it was a one-off monster rather than part of a larger category), CN has nothing else by design, and NG most likely goes with the animal-headed creature theme because the Good exemplar races draw from the good gods in mythology, and Egyptian-/Greek-/Celtic-style "people with animal heads" gods fit in nicely with the archons' Judeo-Christian "wings and glowy lights" aesthetic and the eladrins' "super-elf nature gods" look.

Millstone85
2019-04-26, 04:21 PM
LN has inevitables as of 3e (technically 1e, since the marut showed up then, but it was a one-off monster rather than part of a larger category)I do not know which version of the marut I like the most.

3e marut
https://i.imgur.com/ECqnmx4.png
I represent the inevitability of death. No, I am not the terminator-looking one with a sword. I am the bulky one with the bird helmet, and I punch liches.

5e marut
https://i.imgur.com/f1Vc2JR.png
The monodrones said that you are mocking the steampunk big-eyeball little-wings look. Want to repeat that in front of me?

Edit: Changed the relative sizes of the monodrone and the marut.

John Campbell
2019-04-27, 12:33 AM
Oh, one that just came up in my game tonight:

"Halfling pipe-weed" is marijuana. The reason halflings eat so much despite being Small and typically sedentary is that they all have the munchies all the time.

(Also halflings are hobbits, not kender.)

Millstone85
2019-04-27, 09:26 AM
Note: The following headcanon is derived from the 5e version of the Great Wheel, which has neither quasi-elemental planes nor Hinterlands.

The Outlands has elemental gate-towns, eight in number, organized in a circle midway between the Spire and the outer gate-towns. Even closer to the Spire is a triangle of gate-towns leading to the Material, the Feywild and the Shadowfell.

The "gates" the towns are built around are no mere portals. They are actually bigger on the inside, each containing an entire plane.

Two suns orbit the Outlands, one made of positive energy and the other of negative energy, bringing day and night. Should you fall from the edge of the Outlands, you would plummet either toward one of the suns, or past them and into the Far Realm.

In short, the Outlands is the Great Wheel.

Beleriphon
2019-04-27, 05:16 PM
I do not know which version of the marut I like the most.

3e marut
https://i.imgur.com/ECqnmx4.png
I represent the inevitability of death. No, I am not the terminator-looking one with a sword. I am the bulky one with the bird helmet, and I punch liches.

5e marut
https://i.imgur.com/xAN9udP.png
The monodrones said that you are mocking the steampunk big-eyeball little-wings look. Want to repeat that in front of me?

The 3E Marut looks like a bird, but its actually the crest on a Greek style hoplite helmet. If you look to the "mouth" area its actually got a face plate and nose protector.

Millstone85
2019-04-28, 04:14 AM
The 3E Marut looks like a bird, but its actually the crest on a Greek style hoplite helmet. If you look to the "mouth" area its actually got a face plate and nose protector.That didn't escape me. Still a bird helmet. Which is fine, as birds are sometimes associated with death.

Also, I would have described it as the "neck" area. It depends on whether you see an open or closed beak.

Yora
2019-04-28, 05:25 AM
http://uo-planescape.wdfiles.com/local--files/marut/Marut_by_Thomas_Baxa-2118_%281991%29_TSR_AD%26D_2ed_-_Monstrous_Compendium_Appendix%2C_Outer_Planes_%28 MC08%29.jpg
AD&D 2nd Ed. (1991)

http://uo-planescape.wdfiles.com/local--files/marut/Marut_by_Tony_Diterlizzi-2602_(1994)_TSR_Planescape_-_Monstrous_Compendium_Appendix_I.jpg
Planescape (19994)

The original design looked bad, but the Planescape image is the best. (As it usually is with any planar creatures.) Sadly not seen in the image is that the cube modrons barely get past its knees.

Millstone85
2019-04-28, 06:02 AM
The original design looked bad, but the Planescape image is the best. (As it usually is with any planar creatures.) Sadly not seen in the image is that the cube modrons barely get past its knees.For the 5e design, I am the one who put the monodrone and the marut next to each other. I might have got their relative sizes completely wrong.

In fact, there is a concept art that suggests a much bigger difference, knowing that monodrones are size Medium like humans.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5d/f4/78/5df478ec47a8b2fcc745726238288f5c.jpg

But I believe this marut would have been size Huge, while the published stat block only gives a size Large.

Edit: On second thought, three-times taller is probably still in the Large category. Modifying the picture now.

Bohandas
2019-04-28, 07:53 AM
The 3E Marut looks like a bird, but its actually the crest on a Greek style hoplite helmet. If you look to the "mouth" area its actually got a face plate and nose protector.

Now I can't stop imagining it as being in a big mascot costume with the eye holes in the neck

Excession
2019-05-02, 10:42 PM
Drow cities do not look like human cities built on the floor of a giant cavern. They are carved and shaped directly into stone, only sometimes around a natural cave system. Open spaces actually tend to frighten Drow, as beyond their dark-vision range could be full of Beholders or worse. Their cities are mazes that make no sense to outsiders, a natural defence against invasion. Dwarf cities, mines, and forts on the other hand are all built off the same "perfect" plans.

Dark-vision is useless underwater, meaning few underdark Drow ever learn to swim. If a body of water is large enough to swim in, it's large enough for other things to swim in.

Water sources, ventilation, and sewage are frequently targets for inter-house conflict in Drow societies, not to mention the never-ending creature infestations. Drow Warrior-Plumbers are the very best there is.

Bohandas
2019-05-02, 11:18 PM
*There are two forms of the Infernal language. A highly exact, restricted, and deficient Newspeak like form for day to day use, and a flowery, highly metaphorical, easily misinterpreted version for contracts etc.

*Souls sent to Baator are literally assigned genders. And it's deliberately chosen to be the one that will cause them the most trouble

Yora
2019-05-03, 07:08 AM
*There are two forms of the Infernal language. A highly exact, restricted, and deficient Newspeak like form for day to day use, and a flowery, highly metaphorical, easily misinterpreted version for contracts etc.

Sounds like German. :smallbiggrin:

Archpaladin Zousha
2019-05-03, 12:36 PM
Drow Warrior-Plumbers are the very best there is.
Have they got a 27B-6? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRfoIyx8KfU)

Darnit, now I wanna play a character like this! :smallbiggrin:

Quarian Rex
2019-05-03, 01:34 PM
All major gnome cultures are the mutated remnants of a dwarf clan that experimented with arcane magic; in isolated and xenophobic dwarven communities (who never practice arcane magic) they are seen as abominations. In dwarf communities were arcane magic is practiced widely, it is quite possible that dwarf couples will reproduce gnome children. Vice versa, Gnomes who have very little contact to arcane magic might have dwarf children.

Thanks for this. I normally hate gnomes but this actually makes them palatable. That is an impressive feat.



https://i.imgur.com/YUkQ41r.png
4e Monster Manual page 126: gibbering mouther, gibbering abomination and gibbering orb.
5e Monster Manual page 28: beholder.

This is surprisingly good as well. Thanks.

Bohandas
2019-05-06, 03:10 AM
XP and HD represents spiritual fortitude, specifically in the context of overcoming whatever force makes it impossible for normal people to have more than four ranks of skill in any field or to learn spells above first level.

Excession
2019-05-06, 05:25 AM
Have they got a 27B-6? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRfoIyx8KfU)

Darnit, now I wanna play a character like this! :smallbiggrin:

They don't. One of the perks of a chaotic evil society is never needing to fill out paperwork. But for a Drow that somehow ended up working in another city, that's spot on :smallbiggrin:

a_flemish_guy
2019-05-13, 04:24 AM
- all bullete encounters in the history of d&d have been based on the movies tremors or jaws or some combination of both

- gnome society values entertainment more then riches, that's why gnomes mostly go for eccentric and new plans rather then the old and true, would you ever go with a plan that involves blowing up all the loot?

- owlbears can turn their head 180°

- dwarves consider the phrase "good luck" as an insult because it implies that they need random chance to succeed rather then hard work and skill

- elves have no domesticated animals

- colourblind people make terrible dragonslayers

- fire resistant gear is made out of asbestos

- orks have an actuall well developed bard culture based on drums and story-yelling

LibraryOgre
2019-05-13, 09:39 AM
- dwarves consider the phrase "good luck" as an insult because it implies that they need random chance to succeed rather then hard work and skill


I had dwarves use "We do what we must because we can (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI)" as a maxim. Immediately post-portal, it was considered unnerving.

Luccan
2019-05-13, 11:48 AM
- orks have an actuall well developed bard culture based on drums and story-yelling

Thurg the Scourge: Your bards are terrible. How do they expect to honor those the songs are about if they speak of them so quietly?

Bohandas
2019-05-13, 01:16 PM
I agree, in this case the typo (if it was a typo and not intentional) "story yelling" actually fits better than the presumably intended "story telling"

a_flemish_guy
2019-05-13, 01:44 PM
I agree, in this case the typo (if it was a typo and not intentional) "story yelling" actually fits better than the presumably intended "story telling"

it wasn't a typo but I also didn't intend for it to be a pun

Excession
2019-05-13, 06:14 PM
- owlbears can turn their head 180°

My head-canon is that owlbears are closely related to triceratops. Feathers, quadrupedal, beak, large, and probably ill-tempered? Sounds like a ceratopsian just without the horns.

New head-canon: some owlbears have horns.

Kane0
2019-05-13, 07:07 PM
- dwarves consider the phrase "good luck" as an insult because it implies that they need random chance to succeed rather then hard work and skill


Conversely, blaming something on bad luck is considered a sign of disrespect or poor character to Halflings.

LibraryOgre
2019-05-14, 11:02 AM
My head-canon is that owlbears are closely related to triceratops. Feathers, quadrupedal, beak, large, and probably ill-tempered? Sounds like a ceratopsian just without the horns.

New head-canon: some owlbears have horns.



Oh, you mean the Great Horned Owlbeast (https://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/owlbeast.pdf) of Tellene?

RedMage125
2019-05-14, 11:22 AM
My head-canon is that owlbears are closely related to triceratops. Feathers, quadrupedal, beak, large, and probably ill-tempered? Sounds like a ceratopsian just without the horns.

New head-canon: some owlbears have horns.

Why would a ceratopsian have feathers?

It was exclusively therapods that are theorized to have evolved into birds.

hamishspence
2019-05-14, 01:01 PM
Why would a ceratopsian have feathers?

It was exclusively therapods that are theorized to have evolved into birds.

True - but protofeathers may have existed in the earliest dinosaurs, later being lost in some lines.

It's quite plausible that they go right back to the dinosaur/pterosaur split - with pterosaur fuzz being basically the same stuff that dinosaurs ended up turning into feathers.

And some ceratopsians have been shown to have quills, at least.

Excession
2019-05-14, 07:03 PM
Oh, you mean the Great Horned Owlbeast (https://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/owlbeast.pdf) of Tellene?

That's about right, yes. The horns are a bit too cow-like in the picture, but I would blame that on second-hand stories. After all, people saw a giraffe (or something) and came up with stories of the Catoblepas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catoblepas_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)) and Qilin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qilin).


Why would a ceratopsian have feathers?

It was exclusively therapods that are theorized to have evolved into birds.

If you want to survive the ice age, you evolve feathers. Or things that look a bit like feathers to someone that is running for their life, anyway.

a_flemish_guy
2019-05-15, 12:37 AM
Conversely, blaming something on bad luck is considered a sign of disrespect or poor character to Halflings.

ooh, that's a good one, it's because halflings are either created or patroned by the godess of luck isn't it?

now I imagine a halfling child being lectured because he complained about his dice throws during a game like if he'd just cursed

Millstone85
2019-05-20, 08:04 AM
When a deity becomes two deities or more, as it happened to Io (Bahamut/Tiamat), Tyche (Beshaba/Tymora), and Realmspace's original goddess of the night (Selûne/Shar), these deities remain connected through a type of vestige, called a schismatic vestige.

Those who call upon the power of a schismatic vestige often seek to remerge the corresponding deities. Some faiths instead regard the original deity as being alive and well, but known through aspects, as is the case with the elven worship of Angharradh (Aerdrie/Hanali/Sehanine).

On some worlds, drow religion revolves around the broken goddess Araushnee (Eilistraee/Lolth/Vandria). In this view, the lawful Vandria is most similar to Araushnee when the goddess first called the elves to adopt permanent forms and build empires, except that she now grieves over the losses this project brought and focuses on keeping the drow safe in their exile. Meanwhile, Lolth embodies the wrath the goddess felt when Corellon condemned her efforts, and which eventually caused her to attack him and shatter. Finally, the gentle Eilistraee represents the hope of rekindling the friendship between Corellon and the drow.

Archpaladin Zousha
2019-05-26, 07:03 PM
When a deity becomes two deities or more, as it happened to Io (Bahamut/Tiamat), Tyche (Beshaba/Tymora), and Realmspace's original goddess of the night (Selûne/Shar), these deities remain connected through a type of vestige, called a schismatic vestige.

Those who call upon the power of a schismatic vestige often seek to remerge the corresponding deities. Some faiths instead regard the original deity as being alive and well, but known through aspects, as is the case with the elven worship of Angharradh (Aerdrie/Hanali/Sehanine).

On some worlds, drow religion revolves around the broken goddess Araushnee (Eilistraee/Lolth/Vandria). In this view, the lawful Vandria is most similar to Araushnee when the goddess first called the elves to adopt permanent forms and build empires, except that she now grieves over the losses this project brought and focuses on keeping the drow safe in their exile. Meanwhile, Lolth embodies the wrath the goddess felt when Corellon condemned her efforts, and which eventually caused her to attack him and shatter. Finally, the gentle Eilistraee represents the hope of rekindling the friendship between Corellon and the drow.
I like this idea immensely, especially since gives some depth to Angharradh, as well as weaving Vandria into FR very nicely. May I steal it, please? :smallredface:

Headcanon of my own: Elves (of all varieties) can get buff or fat like other folks, and aren't universally willow-thin as a rule. They aren't really common, though, to the point where if you meet a beefy elf, odds are they've put effort into building that body shape.

Bohandas
2019-05-27, 01:20 AM
Water sources, ventilation, and sewage are frequently targets for inter-house conflict in Drow societies, not to mention the never-ending creature infestations. Drow Warrior-Plumbers are the very best there is.

Related headcanon: The cult of Zuggtmoy (demon princess of fungi) also employs warrior plumbers


When a deity becomes two deities or more, as it happened to Io (Bahamut/Tiamat), Tyche (Beshaba/Tymora), and Realmspace's original goddess of the night (Selûne/Shar)....

And possibly also Heironeous and Hextor

Dexam
2019-05-27, 03:19 AM
On a related note, celestial angles totally are a thing. They live in Arcadia and look like this:
https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2017/5-19/new7MzD7pK-2.png


Naturally, all their attacks deal radian damage...

Kane0
2019-05-27, 03:22 AM
Naturally, all their attacks deal radian damage...

I actually did a spit-take at that

Dexam
2019-05-27, 03:49 AM
I actually did a spit-take at that

Their function in the heavenly courts is to act as messengers for the good-aligned deities to the mortal realms, evidenced by the fact that many people pray for and have received a sine from the gods...

Millstone85
2019-05-27, 06:18 AM
I like this idea immensely, especially since gives some depth to Angharradh, as well as weaving Vandria into FR very nicely. May I steal it, please? :smallredface:Thank you. And yes, of course, you may.


Naturally, all their attacks deal radian damage...
a sine from the gods...Nice. :smallbiggrin:

LibraryOgre
2019-05-27, 11:39 AM
Their function in the heavenly courts is to act as messengers for the good-aligned deities to the mortal realms, evidenced by the fact that many people pray for and have received a sine from the gods...

I would like to cosine these jokes, and log my objection to have not having thought of them first.

Bohandas
2019-06-01, 03:24 AM
Summoning and the manifestation of divine aspects are closely related phenomena

Velaryon
2019-06-01, 07:07 PM
I would like to cosine these jokes, and log my objection to have not having thought of them first.

Please don't send this thread off on a tangent with these math puns. I know it's the usual formula around these parts, but I really hope this time is differential.

:smallsmile:

a_flemish_guy
2019-06-01, 08:17 PM
can I post some WH40K head canons as well?

if not just give a sign and I'll delete it

- the minotaur chapter are made out of a mixture of geneseed of all chapters in an effort for the imperium to get a grip on the astartes


- the dark angels would have gotten away with their original transgression with merely a slap on the wrist (the fallen didn't even join chaos), it's all the stuff they did to cover it up that pushes them into traitor territory


- gork and mork were originally khorne and tzeentch, the old ones noticed that their creations gave power to these warp spirits and thus gave them 2 new gods, one who's brutal but cunning and one who's cunning but brutal, since they didn't reveal which one was which and by giving both atributes to both gods this ended up making 2 new gods rather then them continueing giving power to khorne (who's only brutal) and tzeentch (who's only cunning)

- perturabo and the majority of the iron warior legion have been besieging the same fortress in the warp for the last 10K years, khorne liked the iron cage so much that he's tasked the worldbearers to bring rogal dorn in alive and have a revanche with dorn on the defence and perturabo on the offence
so far perturabo has failed to get into the fortress and khorne has failed to bring dorn to chaos since there's nothing that man wants for himself

Bohandas
2019-06-17, 12:52 AM
Spells that heal diseases work by supercharging the immune system, not by attacking the disease dirextly

PairO'Dice Lost
2019-06-17, 02:59 AM
Along those lines, I generally rule that viruses are very very very very very very tiny undead creatures that sap infinitesimal fractions of hit points and ability points with their attacks in a much reduced version of normal undead creatures' Ability Drain and Energy Drain attacks. That explains why disease-related effects like contagion and similar are Necromancy rather than, say, Transmutations that blind you or cover you with boils, and why a Necrotic Cyst is necromantic in nature as opposed to a generic "magical cancer" effect.

These nano-undead are normally impossible to affect directly due to targeting and line of effect rules, but much like how there are specialized spells that can affect possessing creatures who normally can't be targeted separately from their hosts, cure disease and similar spells can indeed target viruses directly...and on that scale, a cure disease is the positive energy equivalent of a twinned repeated widened intensified energy-admixed meteor swarm.

Bacteria are similar, but they're either living creatures or deathless rather than undead, so a cure disease basically hits them with Death By Awesome much like shoving a human right into the heart of the Positive Energy Plane would. :smallcool:

a_flemish_guy
2019-06-18, 10:36 AM
instead of abruptly stopping at some point the positive and negative energy plains kind of overlap, the resulting energy storms are so violent that no being can survive in these zones


the gods are tapping into the negative and positive energy planes to give power to their clerics depending on which is closer


this is why divine spells can be converted directly into positive or negative energy and why good gods get only positive, evil gods get only negative and neutrals can choose between both

noob
2019-06-18, 11:21 AM
most wizards are disguised goblins and most sorcerers are kobolds and their ancient rivalry comes from that.

RedMage125
2019-06-18, 11:44 AM
most wizards are disguised goblins and most sorcerers are kobolds and their ancient rivalry comes from that.

And Sorcerer Kings are poorly-disguised trolls? :smallwink:

Kane0
2019-06-19, 12:10 AM
And Sorcerer Kings are poorly-disguised trolls? :smallwink:

Made me laugh harder than it should have.

Telok
2019-06-19, 01:21 AM
Cocaine wizards ae totally a thing in my games.

Misereor
2019-06-19, 05:18 AM
Tharizdun is the unnamed deity that created Humanity, and he is simply trying to fix things.
Since the Obyrith infestation of reality cannot be cured or reversed, and will eventually turn it into another Voidharrow, reality will have to be destroyed and returned to the Far Realm, from where a new reality will arise. This must be done before the Obyriths can gather enough power to infest the next reality as well, as they have done cycle after cycle. Tharizdun is not actually crazy, just extremely driven in pursuit of his goal, like many Humans tend to be.

Archpaladin Zousha
2019-06-19, 09:18 AM
Tharizdun is the unnamed deity that created Humanity, and he is simply trying to fix things.
Since the Obyrith infestation of reality cannot be cured or reversed, and will eventually turn it into another Voidharrow, reality will have to be destroyed and returned to the Far Realm, from where a new reality will arise. This must be done before the Obyriths can gather enough power to infest the next reality as well, as they have done cycle after cycle. Tharizdun is not actually crazy, just extremely driven in pursuit of his goal, like many Humans tend to be.
What's a Voidharrow?

Millstone85
2019-06-19, 09:48 AM
What's a Voidharrow?Google tells me it is from a novel series called Abyssal Plague (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Abyssal_Plague), which was released during 4e. Voidharrow is an entity from a dead universe that is unleashed across multiple worlds, including Nerath, Toril and Athas.

Which means there was a crossover between Nentir Vale, Forgotten Realms and Dark Sun. No need for eldritch horrors, this is absolute madness already.

Razgriez
2019-06-19, 10:44 AM
And Sorcerer Kings are poorly-disguised trolls? :smallwink:


Made me laugh harder than it should have.

I now have this mental image of an teenage troll, desperately trying to prove how cool and edgy they are...and it amounts to shouting a bunch of 4th wall breaking meta-gaming details about how they can totally destroy your party, because by "clever" (munchkining) reading (twisting) of the rules, they can do, like, 300d100 damage per action. While wearing a very cheesy costume and what amounts to a cheap rubber mask.

The party defeats said "Sorcerer King" by flinging hardbound books, metal tablets, dice, etc, at said munchkin troll...

LibraryOgre
2019-06-19, 10:45 AM
Google tells me it is from a novel series called Abyssal Plague (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Abyssal_Plague), which was released during 4e. Voidharrow is an entity from a dead universe that is unleashed across multiple worlds, including Nerath, Toril and Athas.

Which means there was a crossover between Nentir Vale, Forgotten Realms and Dark Sun. No need for eldritch horrors, this is absolute madness already.

Bolding mine, for amusing effect.

THIS. IS. SPARTA!

Ad res, the Voidharrow sounds like the Snarl.

Malphegor
2019-06-19, 01:13 PM
Basee on item creation feats in 3.5, I feel that gems and precious stones were the first spell storage device in prehistory when dragons ruled, then druids and clerics established methods of storing spells in wooden wands and sticks, which culminated in the biggest ancient cities building sceptres, culminating in the iconic wizard’s staff as the ‘masterwork’ of a wizard’s training, balancing multiple spells elegantly with a single pool of charges.

Sceptres fell out of fashion beyond some niche collectors because wands take less effort and are portable, and staffs are like the Porsche of magic sticks, and are more desireable.

Oh, also Changelings and doppelgangers work like Pokemon’s ditto for breeding with other races.

Misereor
2019-06-20, 01:37 AM
What's a Voidharrow?

I'm pretty certain it was a tiny Obyrith Shard (modified by Tharizdun to get him out of prison), but I could be wrong.

Anyway, the original Obyrith Shard was created by the Obyriths so they could migrate to and attune to a new reality, hence permitting them to continue to live on after their old reality was destroyed. The attunement is a procedure that slowly and inevitably changes reality into something resembling the Obyrith's original one. That is what created the Abyss and it's various demonic species, why entire planes will occasionally fall into it, and how the Blood war got started.

That of course raises the question of what will happen once everything is infected/attuned/assimilated/Abyssalized. I'm thinking that the death of reality will be used to create a new Shard to attune to the next reality that comes along, granting the Obyriths a kind of immortality that gods can only dream of. And if that's the case, then who knows how many times it might already have happened.

The only way to stop such a cycle would be to destroy reality before the prerequisites for creating a new shard could be met. Who knows what that kind of realization might do to an otherwise kind and benevolent god?

Malphegor
2019-06-20, 10:22 AM
With the deity Nobarion in Faerun being Aslan but with the numbers filed off for legal purposes, there may be other immigrants from Narnia before that plane ended. Talking animals, certain magics, Father Christmas, might have made their way to the various Realms and planes at some point. Absolutely stories of the humans from the world of Earth and their adventures on the animal-infested world of Narnia are well known.

Which means Reepicheep is probably the textbook Paladin that all Paladins aspire to be.

Millstone85
2019-06-20, 01:59 PM
Anyway, the original Obyrith Shard was created by the Obyriths so they could migrate to and attune to a new reality, hence permitting them to continue to live on after their old reality was destroyed.To be clear, I believe this is strictly Nentir Vale lore.

In that setting, there never was a Great Wheel, only the World Axis. When Tharizdun found the obyrith shard, he planted it into the Elemental Chaos, creating the Abyss. Later on, Asmodeus journeyed to the heart of the Abyss and took a sliver of the shard, which he used to create the Nine Hells in the Astral Sea.

Compare and contrast with Forgotten Realms lore. In that setting, the 3e-4e transition included a reorganization of the planes. Notably, Asmodeus decided and found a way to relocate the Abyss into the Elemental Chaos.

That's why I said a crossover between these settings was crazy. It would essentially involve alternate-reality versions of Asmodeus and other characters.

Misereor
2019-06-20, 04:18 PM
To be clear, I believe this is strictly Nentir Vale lore.

In that setting, there never was a Great Wheel, only the World Axis. When Tharizdun found the obyrith shard, he planted it into the Elemental Chaos, creating the Abyss. Later on, Asmodeus journeyed to the heart of the Abyss and took a sliver of the shard, which he used to create the Nine Hells in the Astral Sea.

Compare and contrast with Forgotten Realms lore. In that setting, the 3e-4e transition included a reorganization of the planes. Notably, Asmodeus decided and found a way to relocate the Abyss into the Elemental Chaos.

That's why I said a crossover between these settings was crazy. It would essentially involve alternate-reality versions of Asmodeus and other characters.

Like the various Tiamat versions, the color of Drow eyes, or the location of Helms Hold? :)
D&D has a lot of crapload of inconsistencies, and especially FR. I actually believe that Candlekeep had a rather lengthy thread that was still active a few months back, about the cosmology changes and how little sense they made. Anyway, it's not a biggie for me, as it has minimal impact on the players.

Beleriphon
2019-06-21, 02:47 PM
With the deity Nobarion in Faerun being Aslan but with the numbers filed off for legal purposes, there may be other immigrants from Narnia before that plane ended. Talking animals, certain magics, Father Christmas, might have made their way to the various Realms and planes at some point. Absolutely stories of the humans from the world of Earth and their adventures on the animal-infested world of Narnia are well known.

Which means Reepicheep is probably the textbook Paladin that all Paladins aspire to be.

Given what Aslan says about himself in the final books, that's making quite a claim. Suffice to say Narnia is representative of a particular belief system, and Aslan, like the central figure in a very popular European belief system, is at the centre of Narnia for a reason.

Velaryon
2019-06-22, 02:25 PM
Basee on item creation feats in 3.5, I feel that gems and precious stones were the first spell storage device in prehistory when dragons ruled, then druids and clerics established methods of storing spells in wooden wands and sticks, which culminated in the biggest ancient cities building sceptres, culminating in the iconic wizard’s staff as the ‘masterwork’ of a wizard’s training, balancing multiple spells elegantly with a single pool of charges.

Sceptres fell out of fashion beyond some niche collectors because wands take less effort and are portable, and staffs are like the Porsche of magic sticks, and are more desireable.

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to you newsletter.

Seriously, I think I may adopt this headcanon as my own.

Archpaladin Zousha
2019-06-23, 05:50 PM
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to you newsletter.

Seriously, I think I may adopt this headcanon as my own.
Seconded.

But what about wizards who go BEYOND the staff and tote around magical polearms, like Pathfinder's Runelords? :smallbiggrin:

Squire Doodad
2019-06-23, 09:56 PM
Bahamut is in fact a giant self-conscious fish that is good at illusions.

Bohandas
2019-06-25, 03:05 PM
Drow and duergar have the skin tones they do due to cyanosis from the low oxygen levels deep underground

Bohandas
2019-07-07, 08:56 AM
Elves behave like over the top stereotypes of west coast americans who flit between different melodramatic causes, questionable fad diets, and bizarre art trends on a bi-weekly basis

Archpaladin Zousha
2019-07-07, 08:27 PM
Elves behave like over the top stereotypes of west coast americans who flit between different melodramatic causes, questionable fad diets, and bizarre art trends on a bi-weekly basis

https://i.imgur.com/nvA07SL.jpg

Bohandas
2019-07-08, 02:13 AM
https://i.imgur.com/nvA07SL.jpg

Except less bro and more hipster

Millstone85
2019-07-08, 05:38 AM
Except less bro and more hipsterhttps://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/bright/images/4/48/Screenshot_2019-03-08-20-09-32.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/800

Bohandas
2019-07-08, 10:11 AM
That's definitely closer. But those are both snapshots and don't reflect that in a month the fashion will be completely different.

Toofey
2019-07-21, 09:32 PM
This is a great thread. I have so many replies...

Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
Year 1401, Seville, Kingdom of Castile, in today's Spain. The city council declared they would "build a temple so big and beautiful future generations will see it and judge us madmen..."

And they built the largest (by surface) gothic cathedral ever made...
Isn't that Barcelona (and it really is a fantastic cathedral)
____________________________________

It seems like a lot of people here think one way or the Other that the Lady of Pan is trapped in Sidgil... which is cool that so many people came to the same headcannon.

-------------------------------------------------
Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
not exactly true: or else everyone could imagine "a functional world where there is a super cool thing that is able to come in my world and help me and which is going to do so in 5 seconds from my time" and due to them being able to conceive it then it would exist and come in five seconds to help this person.
might even be the case, there's just a lot more worlds with people wishing for help than worlds where that person exists so odds are you will never see them.
__________________________________
Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
Conversely, Liquid Pain (its Book of Gile Darkness counterpart) looks like creamed corn
actually true
______________________________________

Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
FWIW, the Borg were originally going to be bugs, not cyborgs. They might have been "inspired" by the oard and/or cybermen later, but their original concept was as an insectoid species. It was dropped due to budget concerns.
I heard this as well, that's why species whatever number from Voyager were insect-like

__________________

Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
When a deity becomes two deities or more, as it happened to Io (Bahamut/Tiamat), Tyche (Beshaba/Tymora), and Realmspace's original goddess of the night (Selûne/Shar), these deities remain connected through a type of vestige, called a schismatic vestige.

Those who call upon the power of a schismatic vestige often seek to remerge the corresponding deities. Some faiths instead regard the original deity as being alive and well, but known through aspects, as is the case with the elven worship of Angharradh (Aerdrie/Hanali/Sehanine).

On some worlds, drow religion revolves around the broken goddess Araushnee (Eilistraee/Lolth/Vandria). In this view, the lawful Vandria is most similar to Araushnee when the goddess first called the elves to adopt permanent forms and build empires, except that she now grieves over the losses this project brought and focuses on keeping the drow safe in their exile. Meanwhile, Lolth embodies the wrath the goddess felt when Corellon condemned her efforts, and which eventually caused her to attack him and shatter. Finally, the gentle Eilistraee represents the hope of rekindling the friendship between Corellon and the drow.
I could get down with this except in my game world Lolth is just another form taken by Shar, although I have left it intentionally vague as to whether Lolth ever was a thing.

__________________________________

And now my own.... The Spellplague killed all of the chosen (which included Manshoon and Szas Tam etc...), and the changed nature of magic makes it impossible for new ones to be created. And none of that Albier stuff happened... that anyone remembers.

Spore
2019-07-22, 09:40 AM
Humans are actually a bastardized version of ANY race they are genetically compatible to (read as in: can create half-races with). That is why they are so different, and are so middle of the road of anything.

Half-dwarves don't exist since dwarves did not take part in this disgusting interracial breeding program.

Luccan
2019-07-22, 12:18 PM
Humans are actually a bastardized version of ANY race they are genetically compatible to (read as in: can create half-races with). That is why they are so different, and are so middle of the road of anything.

Half-dwarves don't exist since dwarves did not take part in this disgusting interracial breeding program.

So what are mongrelfolk?

Bohandas
2019-07-25, 10:16 AM
During peacetime goblins, orcs, and most other evil humanoids live a pastoral life as shepherds and ranchers because they find slaughtering the animals to be emotionally rewarding

SunderedWorldDM
2019-07-27, 07:11 PM
Gnomes and Halflings view each other as distant yet estranged cousin races, their origins and cultures unified. Only the clergy among them can wear the tall comic hats that some elves depict in statues that they decorate their gardens with.

NoxMiasma
2019-07-30, 11:23 PM
Oh boy, giving me an excuse to ramble about headcanons? You may regret that decision.

So, the Draconic language is, for my settings, reliant on pitch - some well beyond human hearing in either direction - as a method of relaying information. Because true dragons vary in size to such an extent over their lives, the range of sounds they can produce also changes as they grow. For this reason, the Draconic pronouns used to indicate great wisdom/strength/learning/age are literally not able to be properly pronounced by a dragon smaller than adult, reinforcing the hierarchy between dragons. Draconic races, like kobolds and dragonborn have a greater hearing range than most other humanoids, and so can perceive but not reproduce the most self-aggrandising forms of address in Draconic.

Kobold dialect Draconic in particular sounds very high-pitched and fast compared to the depth of a true dragons voice, and kobolds tend to speak quickly, perhaps due to their dragon masters lack of patience, or their generally short average lifespan. These tendencies are responsible for their yappy accents, which persist in common.

Luccan
2019-08-04, 11:40 PM
Volothamp Geddarm's persona has been adopted by a devil that killed him in secret and hired out its services as a sort of evil PR expert. This is why Volo's Guide to Monsters gives excuses for every classic evil mook race, even though one would think if it was all a god's fault (Orcs, Goblins) or if they never did anything wrong unless they were forced into it (Kobolds) they wouldn't be evil in the first place.

Telok
2019-08-05, 01:30 AM
I use DwarfFortress elves for my games.

To wit: elves are tree hugging eco terrorists with a high level of anilam empathy. Therefore killing animals for food, skins, etc., is taboo. Yet elves are omnivorous and enjoy a good pork chop like anyone else. So consuming the flesh of sapients is not taboo in elven society.

Halfling burgers are a thing.

Bohandas
2019-08-05, 11:48 AM
Volothamp Geddarm's persona has been adopted by a devil that killed him in secret and hired out its services as a sort of evil PR expert. This is why Volo's Guide to Monsters gives excuses for every classic evil mook race, even though one would think if it was all a god's fault (Orcs, Goblins) or if they never did anything wrong unless they were forced into it (Kobolds) they wouldn't be evil in the first place.

Wouldn't devils be more likely to do the reverse and spread false accusations about non-evil races, thereby provoking people to attack them and gain evil karma

Particle_Man
2019-08-05, 11:51 AM
I use DwarfFortress elves for my games.

To wit: elves are tree hugging eco terrorists with a high level of anilam empathy. Therefore killing animals for food, skins, etc., is taboo. Yet elves are omnivorous and enjoy a good pork chop like anyone else. So consuming the flesh of sapients is not taboo in elven society.

Halfling burgers are a thing.

An interesting reversal of Dark Sun, where the halflings are the people eaters.

LibraryOgre
2019-08-05, 12:04 PM
Wouldn't devils be more likely to do the reverse and spread false accusations about non-evil races, thereby provoking people to attack them and gain evil karma

Sure, you can spread Evil by increasing evil... but you can also spread it by reducing the amount of evil that dies.

Bohandas
2019-08-05, 12:41 PM
Sure, you can spread Evil by increasing evil... but you can also spread it by reducing the amount of evil that dies.

Wouldn;t they want to cash in as soon as a creature turns evil (or at least as soon as it turns evil enough to go to Baator rather than Ribcage or Acheron)?

Vknight
2019-08-05, 07:44 PM
Halflings are a sub-species of Humans that are half the size in average

Gnomes are the same too Elves and old elvish Gnome just means little-elf

Kobolds are the same too Lizardfolk with no connection to dragons but spending time around them causes the kobolds to develop 'dragon' traits as they adapt to there home environment

Goblins are the same to Orc's and Hobgoblins are just what happens when a goblin and orc have a child

Bohandas
2019-08-06, 12:00 AM
Gods that seem to be regional gods of a small area despite being intermediate or greater deities are the rank they are because they're also worshipped on other worlds where their following is larger and their control of theor portfolio elements is less ambiguous

Bohandas
2019-08-09, 11:00 PM
So what are mongrelfolk?

Mongrelfolk are mix of 100% miscellaneous humanoids

Humans are a mix of 50% human, 50% miscellaneous everything (ie. also dragon, demon, celestial, yeti, etc. in addition to just humanoids)

No brains
2019-08-10, 01:39 PM
Counter to the assertion that kobold's evil 'isn't their fault', I propose that gnomes are actually the evil race. Lore throughout editions has been pretty clear that kobolds were chill and fine before Garl Glittergold imprisoned Kurtulmak for... reasons. Supplanting the imprisonment of a benevolent god and forcing its subjects into barbarism, the new greatest joke gnomes have pulled is convincing everyone else they are good.

Gnuke the gnomes.

Vknight
2019-08-10, 05:28 PM
Counter to the assertion that kobold's evil 'isn't their fault', I propose that gnomes are actually the evil race. Lore throughout editions has been pretty clear that kobolds were chill and fine before Garl Glittergold imprisoned Kurtulmak for... reasons. Supplanting the imprisonment of a benevolent god and forcing its subjects into barbarism, the new greatest joke gnomes have pulled is convincing everyone else they are good.

Gnuke the gnomes.

This is just kobold propoganda the truth is actually the kobolds were evil after all Garl was just trying too help and Kurtulmak got upset as we all know kobolds are short sighted wrastrels and vagabonds

No brains
2019-08-10, 08:53 PM
This is just kobold propoganda the truth is actually the kobolds were evil after all Garl was just trying too help and Kurtulmak got upset as we all know kobolds are short sighted wrastrels and vagabonds

Tch! Another gnome apologist! How can you defend a people who hide from the world studying secrets only emerging with plans to sow chaos! They are thematically identical every doomsday cult!:smalltongue:

Truth be told, I don't care for kobolds either. They both kind of annoy me. Maybe it's because of the time I spent playing horde in WoW.

It is kind of compelling to me that the lore leaves this kind of vague. To me the evidence solidifies when you look at the racial powers of the gnomes and kobolds, the things that could be considered the 'blessings of their gods'. The kobold's pack tactics and grovel, cower, and beg (aka Mass Help Action) really paint them as a cooperative people, while gnomes get powers meant to deceive. If I had to choose between a gnome or kobold to help me, the kobold's nature makes it a collaborator, while a gnome is suited to ditch me and hide.

Luccan
2019-08-10, 11:01 PM
They're pretty clear about both groups having their own clear cut version of events, actually, at least in 5e. Kobolds claim Garl was jealous of Kurtulmak's wealth and trapped him. Gnome lore holds that Kurtulmak and his kobolds enslaved them, so Garl lead him away and trapped him in a cave in. Of course, it's only in 5e that this entrapment became permanent, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure in previous editions he got out and then declared an eternal war on Glittergold and his people.

I actually like both kobolds and gnomes and think their feud is interesting, but the writers are clearly trying to avoid certain moral implications. It's unfortunately in a way that tends to paint the "good guys" as outright villains rather than generating moral complexity. And they still somehow prevented monster PCs from making sense. So, clearly, Volo is a plant.

Edit: To be fair, looking at the non-deity related lore, gnomes are described as friendly and inventive, whereas kobold ingenuity is entirely built around traps because, at the best of times, they're fiercely isolationist. Also kobolds don't care about the individual unless the individual is important, i.e. any given kobold(s) can die in a cave in and none of them will really be concerned (barring serious damage to tribe numbers), but a hero will be remembered until the tribe dies out.

Bohandas
2019-08-11, 01:12 AM
I had this funny idea pop into my head of beholders' eyes being single use and constantly regrowing. When an eye ray is fired the eye ejects like a spent cartridge and a new one pops in from a feed inside the eyestalk.

Luccan
2019-08-11, 01:58 AM
I had this funny idea pop into my head of beholders' eyes being single use and constantly regrowing. When an eye ray is fired the eye ejects like a spent cartridge and a new one pops in from a feed inside the eyestalk.

Gross. But totally believable for an aberration. Also, horrifying to spring on a party if they put one of its eyes out.

DM: Your arrow embeds itself in the center eye, ruining the Anti-Magic Cone that was keeping the wizard's magic at bay.

PC: Great! Ok, you can cast this turn so-

DM: The eye shifts in its socket, before falling from the beholder. In its place, you see a new eye, glassy and mucusy but beginning to clear, take its place. You suddenly recall the mutilated troll corpses and vials of green ichor from before. With horror, you realize what the beholder's experiments were for.


And then presumably your players put your eyes out, but what are you gonna do?

Vknight
2019-08-11, 10:00 AM
Tch! Another gnome apologist! How can you defend a people who hide from the world studying secrets only emerging with plans to sow chaos! They are thematically identical every doomsday cult!:smalltongue:

Truth be told, I don't care for kobolds either. They both kind of annoy me. Maybe it's because of the time I spent playing horde in WoW.

It is kind of compelling to me that the lore leaves this kind of vague. To me the evidence solidifies when you look at the racial powers of the gnomes and kobolds, the things that could be considered the 'blessings of their gods'. The kobold's pack tactics and grovel, cower, and beg (aka Mass Help Action) really paint them as a cooperative people, while gnomes get powers meant to deceive. If I had to choose between a gnome or kobold to help me, the kobold's nature makes it a collaborator, while a gnome is suited to ditch me and hide.

Honestly i both like and dislike them as a concept i think they can be interesting as instead of being dragons a breed of lizardfolk where they develop traits to fit the environment and there view as being close to dragons means they develop too live near a dragon they serve.
Thus the traits that are draconic are from generations living around them.

Ehhh if we go by the grovel, cower, and beg stuff of the kobold it also points too a cultural need to supplement a superiors ego which means i wouldn't trust the kobold if given too much power or a leadership position

Millstone85
2019-08-15, 06:25 AM
The creator of the couatls was, of course, Quetzalcoatl. He was also the lone good-aligned god of the yuan-ti.So it turns out that 5e's mysterious couatl god had a name in previous editions. It is Jazirian. And to my surprise, some legends portray him as the creator of the Great Wheel, no less, together with his evil twin Ahriman (who may or may not be Asmodeus' true identity). Those two are said to be recovering from the fight they had after the Wheel was completed, now biting their own tails instead of each other's, one on Mount Celestia and the other deep in the ninth hell.

Also, couatl yuan-ti are totally a thing. They are called shulassakar on Eberron.

That's all really cool!

Now, I guess that a common headcanon must be that there was a third great serpent working with them. Trinity, rule of three, and all that. My own take is that the third serpent is... Sigil, also biting her own tail, with the Lady of Pain as a servant or avatar.

Anachronity
2019-08-15, 09:40 AM
Wizard have fairs to settle their arguments with games like Summoners chess, cantrip obstacle course, and familiar shows.Complete Arcane of 3.5 (or maybe Complete Mage?) goes over this sort of concept. But I have to say I particularly love the idea of a familiar pageant. I can practically feel the sheer loathing of all the imps and quasits and small elementals as they're made to compete alongside assorted cats, bats, toads, and birds.

And better yet, the occasional pseudodragon who simply delights in the opportunity.

PairO'Dice Lost
2019-08-15, 02:13 PM
Magefairs (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Magefair) are canonical in the Forgotten Realms, and the short story Elminster at the Magefair gives a good look at one. One of the highlights is a fireball-flinging contest where the wizards alter the spell components to make it more flashy and/or destructive.

If you've ever wanted to explain in-character where your wizard learned his metamagic feats (and condescend to uncultured sorcerers at the same time), now you know. :smallcool:

Malphegor
2019-08-15, 02:19 PM
Tch! Another gnome apologist! How can you defend a people who hide from the world studying secrets only emerging with plans to sow chaos! They are thematically identical every doomsday cult!:smalltongue:

Truth be told, I don't care for kobolds either. They both kind of annoy me. Maybe it's because of the time I spent playing horde in WoW.

It is kind of compelling to me that the lore leaves this kind of vague. To me the evidence solidifies when you look at the racial powers of the gnomes and kobolds, the things that could be considered the 'blessings of their gods'. The kobold's pack tactics and grovel, cower, and beg (aka Mass Help Action) really paint them as a cooperative people, while gnomes get powers meant to deceive. If I had to choose between a gnome or kobold to help me, the kobold's nature makes it a collaborator, while a gnome is suited to ditch me and hide.

There was a great fan theory once that gnomes, in fact, do not actually exist, and their continued existence is a trick played on other races by the non existent gnomes- by convincing them that they exist... They exist!

Only by observing a gnome can you tell if it is existing.

LibraryOgre
2019-08-15, 05:14 PM
Magefairs (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Magefair) are canonical in the Forgotten Realms, and the short story Elminster at the Magefair gives a good look at one. One of the highlights is a fireball-flinging contest where the wizards alter the spell components to make it more flashy and/or destructive.

If you've ever wanted to explain in-character where your wizard learned his metamagic feats (and condescend to uncultured sorcerers at the same time), now you know. :smallcool:

Brothers in Arms (https://amzn.to/31HyDyU) actually has a sequence where Raistlin learns the No Components feat, IIRC. From a priest, no less.

Bohandas
2019-09-14, 01:24 AM
When Asmodeus fell he likely took a layer of Celestia with him. It seems the kimd of thing likely to happen upon a whole bunch of archons turning evil. Akin to when one of the layers of Arcadia fell into mechanus when its inhabiyants ceased being good

Eldan
2019-09-14, 07:10 AM
When Asmodeus fell he likely took a layer of Celestia with him. It seems the kimd of thing likely to happen upon a whole bunch of archons turning evil. Akin to when one of the layers of Arcadia fell into mechanus when its inhabiyants ceased being good

Nice numerical coincidence: That means originally, there were eight heavens and eight hells, eight being the number of perfection.

Bohandas
2019-09-15, 02:53 PM
When someone without the requisite training tries to speak a word of the Dark Speech it comes out as a beep like they were swearing on network television

No brains
2019-09-16, 08:33 PM
I am convinced that Githyanki and Githzerai are supposed to be Kingons and Vulcans. They were 'the same' in the sense that illithids captured them from the Star Trek universe. One one set is brutal warriors in space and the other are logical bozos in space.

LibraryOgre
2019-09-16, 08:51 PM
I am convinced that Githyanki and Githzerai are supposed to be Kingons and Vulcans. They were 'the same' in the sense that illithids captured them from the Star Trek universe. One one set is brutal warriors in space and the other are logical bozos in space.

Romulans and Vulcans, perhaps?

Of course, Fading Suns revisited the idea with the Ur-Obun and Ur-Ukar (https://fadingsuns.fandom.com/wiki/Alien_Races)

Bohandas
2019-09-16, 11:50 PM
I am convinced that Githyanki and Githzerai are supposed to be Kingons and Vulcans. They were 'the same' in the sense that illithids captured them from the Star Trek universe. One one set is brutal warriors in space and the other are logical bozos in space.

The githyanki remind me more of the Alternian trolls from "Homestuck". Given the whole thing where they live their adult lives on the astral plane but grow up on material planets, they have psychic powers, they lay eggs, and they are rules by a sadistic queen with formidable supernatural powers

EDIT:

On an unrelated note, stuff owned by gnomish nobility has a tendency to be worn out and ratty but not look it. It starts out as nice luxurious stuff that is backed up and enhanced by illusion magic to make it nicer. Eventually the actually item wears out but the illusion remains so you wind up with stuff that's worn out and broken but still looks and feels luxurious

EDIT:
Also, at least some of the monsters that seem to be mashups of other kinds of creatures - such as the owlbear, the sphinx, etc. - are likely not related to the species they resemble (In much the same way that the Platypus isn't closely related to either the duck or to the beaver)

EDIT:

Also, the Slaad language sounds like the vocalizations from the "Crazy Frog" remix of Axel F

No brains
2019-10-19, 05:20 PM
Wee Jas is the stage name for that deity's rap career, like Lil Jon.

weckar
2019-10-20, 04:32 AM
The githyanki remind me more of the Alternian trolls from "Homestuck". Given the whole thing where they live their adult lives on the astral plane but grow up on material planets, they have psychic powers, they lay eggs, and they are rules by a sadistic queen with formidable supernatural powers
The Gith well predate that, though.

As for my personal headcanon: Once the Dark Powers grow bored and complacent, one day Ravenloft will end.

ezekielraiden
2019-10-20, 06:38 AM
In the 4e cosmology, Bahamut and Tiamat were created when the brooding loner Io tried to take on a Primordial all by himself. For his trouble, Io got literally cleft down the middle into two halves...which almost instantly re-formed into the siblings. They then kicked the Primordial's s#!t (one of the few Primordials actually slain IIRC). So...all the evil, mean, and wicked parts of the God of Balance got split off into Tiamat, and the nice and noble parts got sent to Bahamut. Headcanon: Bahamut is the ultimate god of Good.

Also, separately: Bahamut and Kord are lovers. Their relationship can be tempestuous (figuratively and literally...) but they always patch it back up. That's why Kord hangs out in Celestia, despite it not being his own divine domain (since he seems to lack one).

Luccan
2019-10-24, 02:41 PM
Many deities have a different alignment now than they did during their mythic background. This is mostly how I justify Corellon Larethian both being Chaotic Good and being, well, Corellon Larethian. They used to fluctuate from LN to CN. Now they've realized they were a jerk but can't undo the damage they did to the elves, they encourage personal freedom and expression as much as any racial deity can, and they try not to curse entire populations any more.

SunderedWorldDM
2019-11-16, 01:54 PM
The astral plane is an explosion of color and light, everything being in sharp clarity and vibrant, while the ethereal plane is muted and dry, all objects warped and indistinct. This is because the astral plane connects to the planes that exemplify and expand on material plane phenomena and ideas, and the ethereal plane connects to planes that are syntheses of material ideas, like the core elements.