Tauric creature question

[liquidformat]

So I actually had two questions that I am unsure of so thought I would throw it into the playground. First can you use giant octopus as the base of a Tauric creature or does its 8 Tentacles not count as legs? if the giant octopus does count does this mean you would get all the octopus attacks including the bite attack since it would be on the lower half of the tauric creature?

[Blue Jay]

So I actually had two questions that I am unsure of so thought I would throw it into the playground. First can you use giant octopus as the base of a Tauric creature or does its 8 Tentacles not count as legs? if the giant octopus does count does this mean you would get all the octopus attacks including the bite attack since it would be on the lower half of the tauric creature?

I feel like tentacles can generally count as legs and arms, so I think by RAW you can make a Tauric giant octopus. Then again, I would totally understand if someone else thought the exact opposite.

But, assuming that you can make a Tauric giant octopus, you definitely will get all 8 tentacle attacks. That might be a source of annoyance and game lag, but you'd be dedicating at least 11 levels to it (8 RHD, +1 hit die of the base humanoid, +2 LA), so I don't think it would be a power-balance problem. If I thought it was going to be a balance issue with a particular party, I'd ask you to accept a reduction in tentacle attacks or something.

The bite attack... I think, by RAW, you could make an argument for it. But, the weirdness of cephalopod anatomy comes into play here: the part that anatomists label the "head" is actually the middle segment, between the "foot" (tentacles) and "mantle" (the big, bulgy part that actually looks like a head).

So, a cephalopod purist would probably rule that you don't get the head or the mantle, and you just get the foot. One issue there is that the funnel/siphon and ink sac are part of the mantle, so that ruling would probably also take away the Jet and Ink abilities.

But, since WotC really wasn't considering cephalopod anatomy when they wrote that template, I would rule that you keep the anatomy necessary for all the special abilities. And although this probably also would allow you to keep the bite attack, but I'd probably ask you not to, just because that would put a mouth in your crotch, and that's creepy.

[the_david]

I was actually thinking of making a merfolk witch weregiant octopus today. (For Pathfinder, as lycanthropes function a little different there.)

I'd say the DM can do pretty much whatever he wants. Using a giant octopus isn't that big a violation of the rules, and I don't think it would be broken, as long as you guesstimate the CR. Something like a medusa with a giant constrictor snake sounds good to me too.

Edit: Alternatively, you can use the Amalgam template from the Advanced Bestiary. That would also give your monster a bite attack.

[liquidformat]

I was actually thinking of making a merfolk witch weregiant octopus today. (For Pathfinder, as lycanthropes function a little different there.)

I'd say the DM can do pretty much whatever he wants. Using a giant octopus isn't that big a violation of the rules, and I don't think it would be broken, as long as you guesstimate the CR. Something like a medusa with a giant constrictor snake sounds good to me too.

Edit: Alternatively, you can use the Amalgam template from the Advanced Bestiary. That would also give your monster a bite attack.

Snake wouldn't work as the base for a tauric since it has no legs much less four or more...

The hybrid form of a were giant octopus would actually be very similar to the tauric giant octopus. Granted at that point I think I would rather go giant squid.


but I'd probably ask you not to, just because that would put a mouth in your crotch, and that's creepy.

That is part that I find the most hilarious about the whole thing as long as I don't think too much about it... On a side note for both the giant squid and octopus the bite attack really should only be available during a grapple since the reach for it should be 0'. They did that for the smaller version but not for the giant version which is odd.

[ShurikVch]

How about to use Symbiotic Creature template from Savage Species - with Giant Octopus as a "host", and some Small Humanoid - as a "guest"?

[Blue Jay]

That is part that I find the most hilarious about the whole thing as long as I don't think too much about it...

I can't not think about it. :D


On a side note for both the giant squid and octopus the bite attack really should only be available during a grapple since the reach for it should be 0'. They did that for the smaller version but not for the giant version which is odd.

What's the reasoning here?

I don't think the normal octopus and squid have 0-ft reach on their bite attacks. Based on the stat block, they can even make a vanilla full attack with arms + bite. The bite damage is automatic when they grapple, but the "full attack" line in the stat block is showing a separate attack roll for the bite, which means they're showing something different from the attack roll.

I've always felt like the way they handled the cephalopods' grapple abilities quite oddly. Basically, their grapple sequence is: arms attack -> grapple check -> bite damage. That basically just amounts a normal grapple check, except that you're making a standard melee attack instead of a touch attack, and you're not provoking an AoO. And why is it that the arms attack isn't a touch attack, anyway?

[Malphegor]

So something like Ursula from Little Mermaid is what you’re after? That is really awesome,

Looking at the example of a hobgoblin-griffon that the template provides, it specifies the kind of legs (2 hind legs) the result uses from its source, so I’d probably suppose it’s creator/DM’s discretion there on how many legs are functional in regards to attacks, but rule of cool should give you most of them.

I’d be hesitant to say you get the bite attack though because purely from a ‘how does this work as a creature’ perspective, two mouths and no means for waste to come out in a nice way is not a happy or long lived creature, unless magic is involved... Though there is cool stuff you could do with two mouths with magic... Verbal components from a hard-to-muffle mouth that’s hidden in a ‘skirt’ of legs? Nice.

[frogglesmash]

I’d be hesitant to say you get the bite attack though because purely from a ‘how does this work as a creature’ perspective, two mouths and no means for waste to come out in a nice way is not a happy or long lived creature, unless magic is involved...

The bottom mouth is just a butthole that bites people.

[liquidformat]

The bottom mouth is just a butthole that bites people.

oh that is just hilarious! And in a world that has monsters like gibbering mouther I am not too worried about the mechanics of survivability. Heck taurics in general open up a lot of bio/physics questions and so do a lot of the provided monster masses inside of the monster manuals.