Master Spellthief x Warlock x Eldritch Theurge = ?

[Jowgen]

I am trying to solve the title equation and wanted to run the pieces by the playground.

We start with a level of trickster Spellthief, add some Warlock levels, finagle around a bit till all the Eldritch Theurge prerequs are met and then add Master Spellthief.

The following Master Spelltheif readings will be used for the purposes of this exercise.

- MS considers Warlock an Arcane caster class
- MS advances steal spell as a whole
- MS works with PrCs that progress arcane casting (not relevant, but might be if Unseen Seer were added)

The result:

We loose a level of Invocation progression due to Spellthief 1, but MS keeps our CL and Steal Spell ability on HD equivalent. Now it is when we add Eldritch Theurge into the mix that things get interesting.

Eldritch Theurge progresses one arcane casting class and one invocation using class, so both Spellthief and Warlock both gain increases in CL and known spells/invocations.

From the way I look at it, MS would work for this to stack the dual progression CL together. A Spellthief 1, Warlock 5, Eldritch Theurge 4 would have a CL of 14.

Conversely, this stacking would not apply to the spells/invcations known/per-day however, so we'd have spells/invocations as a Spellthief 5 and Warlock 9. Similarly, steal spell would work as on a Spellthief level 10.


So that is where I am at, and I am reasonably confident in my reading (as based on the MS assumptions), but I just wanted to see if anyone would care to provide a different perspective.

[Zombulian]

That is generally the conclusion I come to as well.
I made a thread recently (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584036-Master-Spellthief-Nar-Demonbinder) talking about Nar Demonbinder rather than a Theurge class, but the arguments posed against my OP may well apply here as well.

[Troacctid]

People keep wanting Master Spellthief to count caster levels, and it still keeps counting class levels.

[Jowgen]

That is generally the conclusion I come to as well.
I made a thread recently (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584036-Master-Spellthief-Nar-Demonbinder) talking about Nar Demonbinder rather than a Theurge class, but the arguments posed against my OP may well apply here as well.

Interesting, shall peruse.


People keep wanting Master Spellthief to count caster levels, and it still keeps counting class levels.

I am operating under the assumption that MS adds together class levels for the base CL, which is then subject to stuff that modifies CL after. So an Orange Ioun stone would only add CL once.

My reading on the theurge is that the "an increase in caster level as if you had also gained a level in [...]" applies directly to the class level from which CL derives, hence the two instances working.

Where would you disagree and how would you calculate?

Also, new avatar?

[Troacctid]

My reading on the theurge is that the "an increase in caster level as if you had also gained a level in [...]" applies directly to the class level from which CL derives, hence the two instances working.

Where would you disagree and how would you calculate?
It increases your caster level, not your class level.


Also, new avatar?
Yeah, I've been wearing my hair in a ponytail lately, and I got a nice new purple jacket, so I figured it was time for an update.

[enderlord99]

People keep wanting Master Spellthief to count caster levels, and it still keeps counting class levels.


It increases your caster level, not your class level.

I'm confused. Say which one it increases, without mentioning the other one.

EDIT: My view is that, for any advancement to overall character-level, either you advance a given class's caster-level when adding a new class-level, or you don't. Some things (such as Master Spellthief) turn "don't" into "do" but they don't change a "do" into a "do twice." My view probably isn't RAW, but that's fine.