Legendary Actions for the Pit Fiend and Balor

[supergoji18]

I want to make the Pit Fiend and Balor legendary creatures, but I'm having a hard time coming up with legendary actions for them. While I could simply do something like "move, attack, wing attack," I wanted to make the legendary action special in some way, like that of the Solar or Empyrean. I was thinking of looking into older editions for inspiration. What ideas do you have?

[GlenSmash!]

You could steal searing burst straight from the Solar. I would love to see an ensnare ability from the Balors whip.

Pit fiends could strike the ground with their tail similar to the Empyrean's Trembling Strike.

[Lord Vukodlak]

The balor could restrain someone with its firey whip similar to a roper. Or fling them like a kraken.

The pit fiend could have an effect like a Command but effecting multiple creatures.

[Unoriginal]

I say: who is the Pit Fiend? Who is the Balor?

General Corgoronom, warmongering conqueror who think power on the battlefield is the only power that matters in the long run, is not Legendary in the same way as Chamberlain Sidurgoden, bombastic food-obsessed bureaucrat whose favored tactic is to approach mortals in areas where famines or droughts make the population suffer and offer the means to solve this problem... for a price.

IMO, the Legendary actions should fit the personality and history of the particular fiend.

[MaxWilson]

Remember that if you give them legendary actions you will have to either reduce their regular actions accordingly (less multiattacks for the Pit Fiend, or eliminate the death fireball for Balor) or increase their CR. Legendary Actions are no different from regular actions as far as CR is concerned.

IMO you might as well just give them a couple of beefy minions instead (even if it's just Pit Fiend + 3 Merregons). It's not like commanding lots of minions isn't in theme for a Pit Fiend--in fact it should be weird to ever see one alone.

[Rukelnikov]

I'm with Unoriginal, tailor the actions to the specific Pit Fiend and Balor.


Remember that if you give them legendary actions you will have to either reduce their regular actions accordingly (less multiattacks for the Pit Fiend, or eliminate the death fireball for Balor) or increase their CR. Legendary Actions are no different from regular actions as far as CR is concerned.

IMO you might as well just give them a couple of beefy minions instead (even if it's just Pit Fiend + 3 Merregons). It's not like commanding lots of minions isn't in theme for a Pit Fiend--in fact it should be weird to ever see one alone.

This really depends on the actions in particular, if it's just a move or low damage attack, it doesn't need to change.

Case in point casting dragon variant doesn't say to change CR.

[MaxWilson]

This really depends on the actions in particular, if it's just a move or low damage attack, it doesn't need to change.

Case in point casting dragon variant doesn't say to change CR.

Agreed on the move; if it's a low-damage attack, you'll need to recompute to determine whether CR should change. Maybe it won't, but you won't know until you do the computation.

It's bizarre to me how much 5E undervalues movement. A legendary action teleport is hugely tactically valuable, but it doesn't affect CR at all, unless the DM decides that it does.

[Rukelnikov]

Agreed on the move; if it's a low-damage attack, you'll need to recompute to determine whether CR should change. Maybe it won't, but you won't know until you do the computation.

It's bizarre to me how much 5E undervalues movement. A legendary action teleport is hugely tactically valuable, but it doesn't affect CR at all, unless the DM decides that it does.

I agree it is useful (teleport in particular is broken sometimes, I was talking about regular AoO generating movement), but CR bands are not perfect limitations, within the same CRs you can find different creatures where one vastly outclasses the other. And regarding the CR guidelines, they are guidelines, they times I used them I did an acid test of comparing the output of that method against some monsters of the same CR and check if the number I got was sensible or not.

[Unoriginal]

Movement is not devalued, it's just that it's not (directly) part of what CR calculates. CR is only a fraction of encounter design, and movement matters for tactical concerns which are a different part of said design.

[LudicSavant]

I say: who is the Pit Fiend? Who is the Balor?

General Corgoronom, warmongering conqueror who think power on the battlefield is the only power that matters in the long run, is not Legendary in the same way as Chamberlain Sidurgoden, bombastic food-obsessed bureaucrat whose favored tactic is to approach mortals in areas where famines or droughts make the population suffer and offer the means to solve this problem... for a price.

IMO, the Legendary actions should fit the personality and history of the particular fiend.

Well now I'm curious what Chamberlain Sidurgoden's Legendary Actions are :smallsmile:

[Malifice]

I want to make the Pit Fiend and Balor legendary creatures, but I'm having a hard time coming up with legendary actions for them. While I could simply do something like "move, attack, wing attack," I wanted to make the legendary action special in some way, like that of the Solar or Empyrean. I was thinking of looking into older editions for inspiration. What ideas do you have?

The creature can take three legendary actions outside its turn. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature’s turn. The creature regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.


Teleport (uses one action) the creature magically teleports, along with any Equipment it is wearing or carrying, up to 40 feet to an unoccupied space it can see.
Claw/ Wing (uses one action) Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 17 (2d8 + 8) slashing damage.
Dreadful presence (uses three actions) Waves of psychic hatred radiate from the creature as it speaks magical words of power in (Abyssal/ Infernal). All living creatures within 30' of the (Balor/ Pit Fiend) take 28 (8d6) Psychic damage, and are Frightened of the (Balor/ Pit fiend) till the end of their next turn. A creature that succeeds on a DC 21 Wisdom save takes half damage and is not frightened.
Onslaught (uses two actions) The Balor/ PF knocks a nearby creature to the ground. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 21 (3d8 + 8) bludgeoning damage and the target must succeed in a DC 21 Strength save or be knocked prone.


Pretty good mix of abilities there.

[supergoji18]

I say: who is the Pit Fiend? Who is the Balor?

General Corgoronom, warmongering conqueror who think power on the battlefield is the only power that matters in the long run, is not Legendary in the same way as Chamberlain Sidurgoden, bombastic food-obsessed bureaucrat whose favored tactic is to approach mortals in areas where famines or droughts make the population suffer and offer the means to solve this problem... for a price.

IMO, the Legendary actions should fit the personality and history of the particular fiend.

Can you give specific examples? I like the idea of them having unique features/legendary actions based on their personality. This would really make them feel unique.


The creature can take three legendary actions outside its turn. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature’s turn. The creature regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.


Teleport (uses one action) the creature magically teleports, along with any Equipment it is wearing or carrying, up to 40 feet to an unoccupied space it can see.
Claw/ Wing (uses one action) Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 17 (2d8 + 8) slashing damage.
Dreadful presence (uses three actions) Waves of psychic hatred radiate from the creature as it speaks magical words of power in (Abyssal/ Infernal). All living creatures within 30' of the (Balor/ Pit Fiend) take 28 (8d6) Psychic damage, and are Frightened of the (Balor/ Pit fiend) till the end of their next turn. A creature that succeeds on a DC 21 Wisdom save takes half damage and is not frightened.
Onslaught (uses two actions) The Balor/ PF knocks a nearby creature to the ground. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 21 (3d8 + 8) bludgeoning damage and the target must succeed in a DC 21 Strength save or be knocked prone.


Pretty good mix of abilities there.

I like this, along with a previous suggestion about the empyrean's trembling strike.

[Unoriginal]

Well now I'm curious what Chamberlain Sidurgoden's Legendary Actions are :smallsmile:


Can you give specific examples? I like the idea of them having unique features/legendary actions based on their personality. This would really make them feel unique.

Well, sure. Here's how I proceeded.

So, first, let's go back to the basic concept. A Pit Fiend, bureaucrat, obsessed with food.

First, I would give them a trait that would let them heal, say, 10 HPs whenever they eat something. And let's say that it applies to allies who are within their Fear aura, too.

Second, they're mainly not a battlefield beast, but an administrator. Remove their mace.

Third, change their spell list to something more thematic. Replace the at-will Detect Magic for at-will Goodberry.

I'm imagining they still are a proper and proud supporter of the Nine Hells, so let's replace Wall of Fire with Guardian of Faith.

Fourth, to emphasis the food-obsession thing, let's modify their Bite attack to something based on the Froghemoth's. This requires making the Pit Fiend Huge, however, but still fits the Chamberlain's theme:

Bite: +14 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 22 (4d6 + 8) piercing damage, and the target is swallowed if it is a Medium or smaller creature. A swallowed creature is blinded and restrained, has total cover against attacks and other effects outside the Pit Fiend, and the target must succeed on a DC 21 Constitution saving throw or become Poisoned. While Poisoned in this way, the target can’t regain Hit Points, and it takes 21 (6d6) poison damage at the start of each of its turns. The Poisoned target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success.

The Pit Fiend’s gullet can hold up to two creatures at a time. If the Pit Fiend takes 20 damage or more on a single turn from a creature inside it, the Pit Fiend must succeed on a DC 21 Constitution saving throw at the end of that turn or regurgitate all swallowed creatures, each of which falls prone in a space within 10 feet of the Pit Fiend. If the Pit Fiend dies, a swallowed creature is no longer restrained by it, as its body dissolves into sludge.

Fifth, let's look at the Legendary actions.

I want them to be able to show their stuff, so let's say they're capable of 3 LA per rounds, renewing on their turn.

-Overindulge: the Pit Fiend eats/drinks an inanimate object.

-Food for Troops: The Pit Fiend transports edible objects within 60ft of themselves, into the free hand of their allies within that same radius. On their turn, the allies can eat it as a bonus action.

-Bite (cost 2 LA): the Pit Fiends can use their Bite attack.

And because I want to emphasis how huge that Pit Fiend is, and because wrestling is awesome, I add (based on the Hill Giant's Squash ability from SKT):

- Devil Pin (cost 2 LA): The Pit Fiend performs a Devil Pin: Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 5 ft., one Medium or Smaller creature as target. Hit: 29 (6d6 + 8) bludgeoning damage, the Pit Fiend lands prone in the target’s space, and the target is grappled (escape DC 15). Until this grapple ends, the target is prone. The grapple ends early if the Pit Fiend stands up.


And here you go, one Chamberlain Sidurgoden. I'd probably tweak and adjust them further, but it seems to me it's a pretty solid skeleton to do it.

Of course, it'd be a rather different fight than a normal Pit Fiend.