Purposeful Cursed Items

[Bphill561]

These lines from the SRD and the DMG got me thinking.


Specific Cursed Items are provided as examples of cursed items. They are given creation prerequisites, should someone want to intentionally create them (although that does not need to be the origin of the item).


Opposite Effect or Target

These cursed items malfunction, so that either they do the opposite of what the creator intended, or they target the user instead of someone else. The interesting point to keep in mind here is that these items aren’t always bad to have.

DMG p272
A wand of lightning bolt that heals rather than harms can be used as a potent healing item.

So can we craft a useful cursed item with the opposite effect? Pricing wise it would seem best to stick to reversing spell casting items as spells have a set price formula regardless of the spell effect. You would still have the problem of how "Opposite Effect" is determined because it might not be the opposite you are looking for. Overall though what spells would make good opposite effect spells??

Inner Beauty from Fiendish Codex I seems fitting. Have the evil creatures gain bonus and the good creatures get penalties.

Aging Touch from Dragon Magazine 150 instantaneously pushes you up one age category, the reverse would make you younger.

Any other spell ideas?

As for making the item, an ancestral relic with opposite spells maybe one way to make it with the intended effect.

[magic9mushroom]

These lines from the SRD and the DMG got me thinking.





DMG p272

So can we craft a useful cursed item with the opposite effect? Pricing wise it would seem best to stick to reversing spell casting items as spells have a set price formula regardless of the spell effect. You would still have the problem of how "Opposite Effect" is determined because it might not be the opposite you are looking for. Overall though what spells would make good opposite effect spells??

Inner Beauty from Fiendish Codex I seems fitting. Have the evil creatures gain bonus and the good creatures get penalties.

Aging Touch from Dragon Magazine 150 instantaneously pushes you up one age category, the reverse would make you younger.

Any other spell ideas?

As for making the item, an ancestral relic with opposite spells maybe one way to make it with the intended effect.

The only cursed items that you definitively can create intentionally (and which you can sell for a specified price) are the specific cursed items. All the other sorts are a big question mark left for DM interpretation.

[Crake]

Also, cursed items, as the name implies, are supposed to be bad. A cursed wand of lightning bolt that heals isn't bad. An item that can make you younger isn't bad. Those aren't cursed items.

[Bphill561]

Also, cursed items, as the name implies, are supposed to be bad. A cursed wand of lightning bolt that heals isn't bad. An item that can make you younger isn't bad. Those aren't cursed items.

Funny, the healing lightning bolt wand is in the cursed section of the DMG as an example of a cursed item not being bad.

[magic9mushroom]

Also, cursed items, as the name implies, are supposed to be bad. A cursed wand of lightning bolt that heals isn't bad. An item that can make you younger isn't bad. Those aren't cursed items.

There's literally a set of rolls for cursed items that is "as normal, except your hair grows an inch the first time you use it". There's also one for "works normally, but the item is bright pink". Those are both under "Drawback". Then there's Intermittent Functioning, which may include things like "doesn't work underwater", "doesn't work in one particular location" or "only works for a spellcaster" (the last is kinda irrelevant for, say, wands/staves/scrolls).

A lot of cursed items are still worth having (and then there's Dust of Sneezing and Choking or the aforementioned wand of Lightning Bolt that heals; both of those are clearly superior to the "noncursed" version and are straight from the DMG). The reason you don't see all that much discussion of cursed item abuse outside of the specific cursed items is, as I noted, that other cursed items don't have listed prices (with the exception of a couple of specific requirements that there's kind of a gentleman's agreement not to use on everything).

[Telonius]

Just from the named items, an Amulet of Inescapable Location seems like an item that somebody might make on purpose. Give them to a paroled prisoner; it's a magical tracking device. Net of Snaring is specifically called out as useful underwater. Very useful for a fisherman, though probably not really worth the price for a typical Commoner or Expert.

[Zaq]

I’ve seen an amusing discussion on optimizing around the -2 sword. You always draw it no matter what, so anything that relies on Iaijutsu Focus or similar quick-draw shenanigans is a perfect fit (just try to make an unarmed strike and whoops, looks like I drew and swung with my -2 sword instead!), and it basically gives Lightning Richochet (that bloodstorm blade ability that lets you full attack with a thrown weapon because it returns to your hand instantly) much earlier than you could get it otherwise.

Remember, nothing says you can’t enhance a cursed item. Stack magic bonuses on it. Sure, a -2 is annoying, but there’s lots of times we voluntarily accept a -2 for opening up new combat options (TWF, anyone?). When you build around it, the -2 sword opens up new action economy advantages, and you can make up the numerical penalty with the rest of your build. It’s not a flawless plan, but I like it anyway.

(I don’t claim to be the originator of these arguments, but they’re amusing enough that I’ll parrot them for now.)

[jintoya]

I generally like cursed items, and I don't see any reason you should not be able to make them, just so long as you aren't abusing them so hard it ruins everyone else's fun

For the sake of fun, try just altering the target for a spell on an item

Invisibility is a classic one, put it on a shield, and alter it to only make the item invisible, not the character, that's just an example.

[liquidformat]

The Bag of Devouring which is a free magic item is literally the reason why we don't have to worry about trash in any fantasy setting. Every family and business has at least one in their house and they can be found on every street corner, after all they are free!

[InvisibleBison]

The Bag of Devouring which is a free magic item is literally the reason why we don't have to worry about trash in any fantasy setting. Every family and business has at least one in their house and they can be found on every street corner, after all they are free!

Where are people getting so many of them? Even though they don't have a listed price (which is not the same thing as being free, incidentally), the description explicitly says they cannot be created.

[Crake]

I’ve seen an amusing discussion on optimizing around the -2 sword. You always draw it no matter what, so anything that relies on Iaijutsu Focus or similar quick-draw shenanigans is a perfect fit (just try to make an unarmed strike and whoops, looks like I drew and swung with my -2 sword instead!), and it basically gives Lightning Richochet (that bloodstorm blade ability that lets you full attack with a thrown weapon because it returns to your hand instantly) much earlier than you could get it otherwise.

This isn't quite true. The -2 cursed sword says it forces the character to use the weapon in place of others, but it doesn't say that the sword teleports back to them, so if you were to throw your sword away, then go to draw another sword, instead your action would be replaced with "run over and pick up the cursed sword" against your will. Note it doesn't say if you try to draw another weapon it replaces that weapon, it says that you draw the cursed sword instead.

[Telonius]

Another amusing one: a Cursed Hat of continuous Calm Emotions - with the Delusion effect. I'm not sure if you'd actually believe that it's working, so you calm down anyway; or if it's more like, "What do you mean, I'm calm? OF COURSE I'M CALM!"

A wand of Opposite Effect for Create Water could clean up spills.

A Cursed Bagpipes of Lullaby could be used to horrible effect during a siege. Psychological warfare, keep the enemy up indefinitely.

[Bohandas]

A Cursed Bagpipes of Lullaby could be used to horrible effect during a siege. Psychological warfare, keep the enemy up indefinitely.

Couldn't you do that with regular bagpipes

[Bphill561]

The Bag of Devouring which is a free magic item is literally the reason why we don't have to worry about trash in any fantasy setting. Every family and business has at least one in their house and they can be found on every street corner, after all they are free!

Oops, I bought several Bags of Devouring for my fortress because the 3.0 price must be listed in the Stronghold Builder's Guide. The same character is a succubus and she confiscated a girdle of femininity/masculinity we found. Not so much for her, but something to "gift" the more adventuresome individuals she was trying to corrupt.


Another amusing one: a Cursed Hat of continuous Calm Emotions - with the Delusion effect. I'm not sure if you'd actually believe that it's working, so you calm down anyway; or if it's more like, "What do you mean, I'm calm? OF COURSE I'M CALM!"

A wand of Opposite Effect for Create Water could clean up spills.

A Cursed Bagpipes of Lullaby could be used to horrible effect during a siege. Psychological warfare, keep the enemy up indefinitely.

Thanks, this is along the lines of what I was hoping people might come up with.

I had a character in a city campaign where we had trouble with a powerful thieves guild that demanded tribute or outright stole party treasure repeatedly. At one point I found a Stone of Weight which I proceeded to enchant to the gills (including granting a fly speed to the user) and further turn into an valuable art object. Party/DM seemed to like the idea and the thieves would take the stone of weight whenever we were confronted only to return to my pocket shortly there after.


The only cursed items that you definitively can create intentionally (and which you can sell for a specified price) are the specific cursed items. All the other sorts are a big question mark left for DM interpretation.

Yeah, I understand they are not specifically priced out and as with any custom item DM approval is necessary. That is why I wanted to focus on spell casting items, it seemed unneccessary to flip an item like a collar of obedience which gives a -10 will save penalty to commands from a master. Making a +10 will save item directly (epic territory for that level of bonus) already can be figured out with standard pricing on custom items. Also items that cast spells have set prices based on spell level and caster level, it does not matter (unless there is DM intervention on pricing) if the spell is really useful or kind of pathetic.

Nor am I advocating a spell like Trait Removal from the Serpent Kingdoms to grant any extraordinary or supernatural ability of choice to the target (or additional uses or effect) since that could clearly be abused. I just thought it would be a useful way to generate additional reversible spells like Flesh to Stone/Stone to Flesh.

The ancestral relic feat use also seemed to work well with the idea because you don't have to "research" or figure out how to intentionally make a cursed item (or potentially roll on the chart to see which negative effect gets applied). But DM approval and interpretation of what they think is the opposite spell effect still has to be met.

[Bphill561]

How about Curse of Lycanthropy in the spell compendium? If the target fails it's save throwing, she is returned to life and 1d6 wererats crawl into her (must be powered by hamster wheels). Might be a little difficult with the target line humanoid touched, most of the raise dead spells target a dead creature.

Reminds me of Red Dwarf episode where the characters ended up in a world where everything ran backwards. One character went to the loo before going back to normal space and seemed quit unsettled by the experience.

[liquidformat]

A Cursed Bagpipes of Lullaby could be used to horrible effect during a siege. Psychological warfare, keep the enemy up indefinitely.

This would require strategic placement of the sieging army's camp as to not screw yourself over...


Where are people getting so many of them? Even though they don't have a listed price (which is not the same thing as being free, incidentally), the description explicitly says they cannot be created.


From the proliferation of extradimensional trash eating creature accords of course, also the extradimensional trash eating creatures do not appreciate being called a curse and believe themselves to be a very useful part of society! Who else will protect you in the bathroom!

[jintoya]

Manacles of slay living, they go off if the proper key isn't used to open them.

[Jay R]

The rules for cursed items are intended to allow creating a curse to use on others.

If a PC is creating a "cursed" item for an actually beneficial result, then either the curse will cause problems the PC didn't plan, or its cost will be based on its effects. A wand of lightning that actually heals will cost the same as a wand of healing, for instance.

[rel]

If Cure Serious wounds restored 1D6 HP / CL in a 60 foot line I probably wouldn't be so derisive of healing in D&D.

I like the idea of cursed items that offer enough benefits to make people seriously consider using them despite the drawbacks.

A few ideas:
Scroll of Invisibility pulse
Like Invisibility Purge except creatures in the area (both friend and foe) become invisible.
Probably happens when they enter / at the start of each turn and wears off when they leave or attack. might want to reduce the duration to rounds / lvl.

Potion of Unaltered Self
Fixes you in your natural form. Polymorph effects (and transmutations?) are negated (or suppressed?) for the duration.

The Burning Axe
This axe is perpetually on fire, it has the flaming property.
This axe is perpetually on fire, you are under the effects of burning rage while you carry it.

[Bphill561]

The rules for cursed items are intended to allow creating a curse to use on others.

I am not sure how this exactly differs from regular magic items. There are various magic items you create to use on others, weapons, attack wands, cure wands, items that give negatives (collar of obedience). The sidebar at the bottom of page 274 also states there are items with drawbacks in the standard magic item section that are not included in the cursed section. Likewise there are cost reductions in the item creation rules (skill requirement, class requirement, etc.) that exactly match drawbacks listed on page 273 or curses. Certainly there are items you wear to increase your own abilities, but there is no distinctions in crafting on who or what the intended targets are)




If a PC is creating a "cursed" item for an actually beneficial result, then either the curse will cause problems the PC didn't plan, or its cost will be based on its effects. A wand of lightning that actually heals will cost the same as a wand of healing, for instance.

Again I find this a strange assumption, because again the DMG states the usefulness of Dust of sneezing and Choking as a weapon (not to mention the wand of lightning healing from before). What side effects of Dust use are you suppose to add to the entry in the DMG for the item you can specifically make? Certainly you can spill it accidentally, but that is no difference than a vial of acid, a glass of beer, or poison application (I prefer beer application). Also there is no special rules under it's entry that make it more prone to be spilled than a cure potion or anything else.

Additionally the wand cost example seems unnecessary at the least. All wands that cast level 3 spells are priced based on spell level x caster level (plus any component cost). So we already know there is no component cost. And clearly you cannot mean a Heal wand (which is beyond the wands spell level limits). DM can certainly make up whatever price they want for any item in the book listed or otherwise. So it is unclear why wand of healing prices would be applied, especially if it has already been craft at lighting wand prices.

For a board that accepts homebrew responses to requests for build ideas, has threads on assigning LA - monsters a LA, and people asking for reviews on homebrew material; I find the lack of imagination on responses kind of surprising. If someone said I would not allow it at my table, give a warning that heavy DM approval/oversight would be needed, or I think I would only allow cursed items to be really bad that would be one thing; but instead responses seem to state "their facts" without actually reading the cursed item section. And I did not say anything along the lines that you can definitely do this by RAW.

My next thread will be "What spell effect would you reverse as homebrew or through research (Positively, definitely, completely certain not from a cursed item; not even the useful ones listed in the DMG I promise)." Maybe I can add the Don't Panic reference from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. End mini-rant.

[Bphill561]

If Cure Serious wounds restored 1D6 HP / CL in a 60 foot line I probably wouldn't be so derisive of healing in D&D.

I like the idea of cursed items that offer enough benefits to make people seriously consider using them despite the drawbacks.

A few ideas:
Scroll of Invisibility pulse
Like Invisibility Purge except creatures in the area (both friend and foe) become invisible.
Probably happens when they enter / at the start of each turn and wears off when they leave or attack. might want to reduce the duration to rounds / lvl.

Potion of Unaltered Self
Fixes you in your natural form. Polymorph effects (and transmutations?) are negated (or suppressed?) for the duration.

The Burning Axe
This axe is perpetually on fire, it has the flaming property.
This axe is perpetually on fire, you are under the effects of burning rage while you carry it.

Thanks, those are awesome. The potion makes me think of Sharns and their immunity to spells that alter their form.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I’ve seen an amusing discussion on optimizing around the -2 sword. You always draw it no matter what, so anything that relies on Iaijutsu Focus or similar quick-draw shenanigans is a perfect fit (just try to make an unarmed strike and whoops, looks like I drew and swung with my -2 sword instead!), and it basically gives Lightning Richochet (that bloodstorm blade ability that lets you full attack with a thrown weapon because it returns to your hand instantly) much earlier than you could get it otherwise.

Remember, nothing says you can’t enhance a cursed item. Stack magic bonuses on it. Sure, a -2 is annoying, but there’s lots of times we voluntarily accept a -2 for opening up new combat options (TWF, anyone?). When you build around it, the -2 sword opens up new action economy advantages, and you can make up the numerical penalty with the rest of your build. It’s not a flawless plan, but I like it anyway.

(I don’t claim to be the originator of these arguments, but they’re amusing enough that I’ll parrot them for now.)The kakita katana (OA) grants a +2 nonmagical enhancement bonus for +8,000 gp. If your katana (aka, bastard sword) is a -2 cursed blade, that would net you a +0 with some very nice effects for the right build, as you noted.

Also note that non-numerical magical enhancements specifically require an enhancement bonus on the weapon to add, but they don't require a magical enhancement bonus to add. And since the price of magical weapon bonuses is explicitly based on the effective magical bonus, you don't count the nonmagical +2 for adding additional magical bonuses. So build yourself a nonmagical kakita katana, add the -2 curse, then begin adding whatever you want onto it; for instance, a +2 kakita katana with ghost touch costs about 8,300 gp for the +2 katana, then +2,000 gp for the ghost touch, since the magical cost is for a +1 weapon. (Again, the nonmagical enhancement bonus doesn't count for the magical cost, but it does allow you to add magical weapon abilities via being an enhancement bonus.)

It's funky, but it holds together with RAW.

And furthermore, the epic +10 limit (or the price multiplier) doesn't count the +2 nonmagical bonus, either, meaning you can get yourself a +2 weapon with a +10 bonus for the cost of a +10 weapon +8,300 gp.

[Bphill561]

The kakita katana (OA) grants a +2 nonmagical enhancement bonus for +8,000 gp. If your katana (aka, bastard sword) is a -2 cursed blade, that would net you a +0 with some very nice effects for the right build, as you noted.

Also note that non-numerical magical enhancements specifically require an enhancement bonus on the weapon to add, but they don't require a magical enhancement bonus to add. And since the price of magical weapon bonuses is explicitly based on the effective magical bonus, you don't count the nonmagical +2 for adding additional magical bonuses. So build yourself a nonmagical kakita katana, add the -2 curse, then begin adding whatever you want onto it; for instance, a +2 kakita katana with ghost touch costs about 8,300 gp for the +2 katana, then +2,000 gp for the ghost touch, since the magical cost is for a +1 weapon. (Again, the nonmagical enhancement bonus doesn't count for the magical cost, but it does allow you to add magical weapon abilities via being an enhancement bonus.)

It's funky, but it holds together with RAW.

And furthermore, the epic +10 limit (or the price multiplier) doesn't count the +2 nonmagical bonus, either, meaning you can get yourself a +2 weapon with a +10 bonus for the cost of a +10 weapon +8,300 gp.

That is pretty funny. Too bad augment crystals and magic DR specifically states a magic enhancement bonus, but still completely workable.

I guess the only question I would have is if a natural enhancement bonus would stack with a magical enhancement bonus, are they different types? I took a look and at least they did not update the sword in the OA 3.5 update in dragon 318.

[magic9mushroom]

The kakita katana (OA) grants a +2 nonmagical enhancement bonus for +8,000 gp. If your katana (aka, bastard sword) is a -2 cursed blade, that would net you a +0 with some very nice effects for the right build, as you noted.

Also note that non-numerical magical enhancements specifically require an enhancement bonus on the weapon to add, but they don't require a magical enhancement bonus to add. And since the price of magical weapon bonuses is explicitly based on the effective magical bonus, you don't count the nonmagical +2 for adding additional magical bonuses. So build yourself a nonmagical kakita katana, add the -2 curse, then begin adding whatever you want onto it; for instance, a +2 kakita katana with ghost touch costs about 8,300 gp for the +2 katana, then +2,000 gp for the ghost touch, since the magical cost is for a +1 weapon. (Again, the nonmagical enhancement bonus doesn't count for the magical cost, but it does allow you to add magical weapon abilities via being an enhancement bonus.)

It's funky, but it holds together with RAW.

And furthermore, the epic +10 limit (or the price multiplier) doesn't count the +2 nonmagical bonus, either, meaning you can get yourself a +2 weapon with a +10 bonus for the cost of a +10 weapon +8,300 gp.

The main issue with this logic is that the bonus from bog-standard masterwork weapons is also a nonmagical enhancement bonus.

[Jowgen]

I got two contributions to the topic.

1. A&E also has sections on both specific cursed items and random curses, some of which are quite cool. Like an item of +6 Wis for a mere 1300 gp, as long as you find a way to never have to make a spot or listen check. There are applications.

2. The Blood Artisan feat from the OA 3.5 update in dragon mag nets you a 25% gold cost reduction on whatever weapons/wondrous items you make, though you don't have the option of making non-cused stuff. Great on a minion who can provide the feat when needed. The Extract Demonic Essence feat does something similar but is wildly impractical for most purposes.

I am yet to find a way how to ensure the application of a specific desired table curse to an item.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The main issue with this logic is that the bonus from bog-standard masterwork weapons is also a nonmagical enhancement bonus.Only to hit. Magical weapon abilities need an enhancement to hit and to damage, which the kakita katana has.


I am yet to find a way how to ensure the application of a specific desired table curse to an item.Well, the DMG says you can create specific cursed items on purpose, so there's that.

If that won't fly, then several luck rerolls plus wild mage to improve your chances of rolling what you want?

[edit] So, the opposite effect for an item that causes pain, like an opposite effect cursed scroll of symbol of pain pleasure? And what happens if your wizard tries to learn it?

And how many people will pay you ludicrous amounts to cast it on them?

[magic9mushroom]

Only to hit. Magical weapon abilities need an enhancement to hit and to damage, which the kakita katana has.

You made up that criterion. It is not in any books. You might as well make up the more sensible one, that when it says it needs a +1 in the context of magic weapons it means the magical +1.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You made up that criterion. It is not in any books. You might as well make up the more sensible one, that when it says it needs a +1 in the context of magic weapons it means the magical +1.Well, the SRD states:


A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.If it were just +1 enhancement to hit via being masterwork, it would've said "must be masterwork." Therefore, any such weapon must have an enhancement bonus to both to-hit and damage, but not magical, since it's not specified as such.

[Jack_Simth]

The only cursed items that you definitively can create intentionally (and which you can sell for a specified price) are the specific cursed items. All the other sorts are a big question mark left for DM interpretation.

Note that Pathfinder has specific rules for it in the arbitrary case (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/cursed-items/#Intentionally_Crafting_Cursed_Items).


Also, cursed items, as the name implies, are supposed to be bad. A cursed wand of lightning bolt that heals isn't bad. An item that can make you younger isn't bad. Those aren't cursed items.
It is and it isn't.

If you're unaware of what it actually does (the default for cursed items, unless you're making them yourself), you may try to use it to polish off a line of opponents and... oops. Only does that to you once, though. After that, you know what it actually is.

If you know it's a healing wand, it's a great item to have. Note, though, that with how costs scale, if it costs the same to make as a standard wand of lightning bolt, wands of cure light wounds - or even better, wands of lesser vigor - are better for out of combat healing for most standard parties. Additionally, unless you've got a two frontliners who conveniently line up for you, a wand of Cure Serious Wounds is still more cost-effective for each HP.

A really fun one to sort out would be one that alternates... leave it initially in the "healing" state. Might go something like this:
PC's find wand, ID it as lightning bolt.
PC's use wand on opponents... who heal up. Party has a harder fight on their hands.
Party thinks they figured out the curse, and then next use it on the frontliner... who gets a nasty zap, and is damaged (possibly killed, depending).

[Bphill561]

I got two contributions to the topic.

1. A&E also has sections on both specific cursed items and random curses, some of which are quite cool. Like an item of +6 Wis for a mere 1300 gp, as long as you find a way to never have to make a spot or listen check. There are applications.

2. The Blood Artisan feat from the OA 3.5 update in dragon mag nets you a 25% gold cost reduction on whatever weapons/wondrous items you make, though you don't have the option of making non-cused stuff. Great on a minion who can provide the feat when needed. The Extract Demonic Essence feat does something similar but is wildly impractical for most purposes.

I am yet to find a way how to ensure the application of a specific desired table curse to an item.

Thanks, I had not noticed the cursed section in the Arms and Equipment guide previously. The Headband of Hostility is also an interesting item once you realize what it does and you don't summon things (especially for non-spell casting classes like monks). Some of the cursed options like two item slots I have seen on other standard magic items.

The only way I could think of generating the desired opposite effect was maybe with an ancestral relic. Again I am making two assumptions. When dealing with items that cast spells, you would use standard cost calculations for casting spells. Second that my opposite effect idea/concept would be the same opposite effect idea the DM would agree with. But then you could pray for the item with the opposite effect desired, which requires no ability to make the item yourself.


Note that Pathfinder has specific rules for it in the arbitrary case (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/cursed-items/#Intentionally_Crafting_Cursed_Items).

That is very interesting. Some of the cost reductions seem in line with general magic item creation modifiers like required skills or class. The opposite effect has a 50% cost reduction which seems rather generous if intentionally crafting the item. It might be more in line with item's value for found items since you don't get to pick what properties of the item you find has. Pathfinder does again repeat that opposite items can be useful and that cursed items in general may be put to good uses in some cases.




It is and it isn't.

If you're unaware of what it actually does (the default for cursed items, unless you're making them yourself), you may try to use it to polish off a line of opponents and... oops. Only does that to you once, though. After that, you know what it actually is.


Yeah that is spot on. Sort of like medicine, a life saving drug will kill someone if given in the wrong situation or be worth the side effects if the result is beneficial enough.

[rel]

... And what happens if your wizard tries to learn it?

I would say that trying to scribe a cursed scroll results in it going off in your face.

[Bphill561]

[edit] So, the opposite effect for an item that causes pain, like an opposite effect cursed scroll of symbol of pain pleasure? And what happens if your wizard tries to learn it?

And how many people will pay you ludicrous amounts to cast it on them?

Sounds like a spell from the Book of Exotic Fantasy. Nice way to pimp out or turn your wizard into a drug dealer.

I am not sure you could scribe the spell into your spellbook. The spell itself is not necessarily different, it is the nature of the bestow curse/curse item effect that reverses it I really like the idea though, as it would be a perfect way to expand the number of reversible spells in the game. Ha, I am having enough trouble convincing people cursed items are useful, let alone allowing new spells to be scribed into a spellbook. Maybe it would be a good basis for spell research, but those rules are so nebulous anyway.


I would say that trying to scribe a cursed scroll results in it going off in your face.


No reason for it to blow up in your face unless that is the drawback attached to the cursed item (and if it is, then it is not excitingly reversed anyway). I am beginning to doubt very many people have actually used cursed items on their characters and seen how useful they are. I mean the things my succubus did with the girdle of gender bender...

[Jack_Simth]

That is very interesting. Some of the cost reductions seem in line with general magic item creation modifiers like required skills or class. The opposite effect has a 50% cost reduction which seems rather generous if intentionally crafting the item. It might be more in line with item's value for found items since you don't get to pick what properties of the item you find has. Pathfinder does again repeat that opposite items can be useful and that cursed items in general may be put to good uses in some cases.

The deliberate cursed item sections is very optimizable. Intermittent Functioning:Dependent is worth 30%, Drawback:Ability Damage is worth 30%, and Requirement:Skill is worth 10%.

Suppose I'm a Cleric, crafting myself a weapon. I grab Intermittent Functioning:Dependent:"In the hands of a spellcaster" for a 30% discount, Drawback:"Character must make a Will save each day or take 1 point of Intelligence damage" for another 30% discount, and Requirement:"Character must have a minimum number of ranks in a particular skill" (Kn(Religion), of course) for a 10% discount. Depending on which math is used, I just grabbed either a 55.9% discount or a 70% discount... in addition to the crafting discount, so really, I'm making items for either 22.05% or 15% of market price, and all I need to do is prepare Lesser Restoration (a 2nd level spell) in case I blow the will save. Meanwhile, I can do the same for armor, staves, et cetera, no problem. As long as it's for my personal equipment (which it usually will be) all I lose is resale value (well, OK, and the ability to just hand it to the party meatshield), and that's still what I put into it.

[magic9mushroom]

Sounds like a spell from the Book of Exotic Fantasy. Nice way to pimp out or turn your wizard into a drug dealer.

Ehhh. BoEF (which is "Erotic", not "Exotic") is surprisingly prissy in some respects. It does have a couple of spells along these lines, though BoED actually has a pretty similar quantity.


I am not sure you could scribe the spell into your spellbook. The spell itself is not necessarily different, it is the nature of the bestow curse/curse item effect that reverses it I really like the idea though, as it would be a perfect way to expand the number of reversible spells in the game. Ha, I am having enough trouble convincing people cursed items are useful, let alone allowing new spells to be scribed into a spellbook. Maybe it would be a good basis for spell research, but those rules are so nebulous anyway.




No reason for it to blow up in your face unless that is the drawback attached to the cursed item (and if it is, then it is not excitingly reversed anyway). I am beginning to doubt very many people have actually used cursed items on their characters and seen how useful they are. I mean the things my succubus did with the girdle of gender bender...

Well, I mean, one (cruel) way to interpret "opposite effect or target" is that it removes a spell from your spellbook instead of adding one when you attempt to scribe it. Isn't there a spell or item that scrambles writing so it becomes meaningless?

[Bphill561]

The deliberate cursed item sections is very optimizable. Intermittent Functioning:Dependent is worth 30%, Drawback:Ability Damage is worth 30%, and Requirement:Skill is worth 10%.

Suppose I'm a Cleric, crafting myself a weapon. I grab Intermittent Functioning:Dependent:"In the hands of a spellcaster" for a 30% discount, Drawback:"Character must make a Will save each day or take 1 point of Intelligence damage" for another 30% discount, and Requirement:"Character must have a minimum number of ranks in a particular skill" (Kn(Religion), of course) for a 10% discount. Depending on which math is used, I just grabbed either a 55.9% discount or a 70% discount... in addition to the crafting discount, so really, I'm making items for either 22.05% or 15% of market price, and all I need to do is prepare Lesser Restoration (a 2nd level spell) in case I blow the will save. Meanwhile, I can do the same for armor, staves, et cetera, no problem. As long as it's for my personal equipment (which it usually will be) all I lose is resale value (well, OK, and the ability to just hand it to the party meatshield), and that's still what I put into it.

Yeah, I did not see anything in those rules about only having one drawback. At that point you might as well make it a relic too (if sanctify relic is allowed in your pathfinder game) to have it take up whatever spell slot is necessary to make the item free. I think a deity of trickery would appreciate such an item. Although I would be a little to craft such an item myself.

Reminds me of a game called Fading Suns. Their character creation system had cyberware and it stated right in the entry you could give the cyberware so many detriments it gave you points back you could spend in other areas of character creation. My implanted camera that was extremely difficult to use gave me all kinds of stuff.


Ehhh. BoEF (which is "Erotic", not "Exotic") is surprisingly prissy in some respects. It does have a couple of spells along these lines, though BoED actually has a pretty similar quantity.

Good for you, I had no intention of typing out the proper name. I did pick up the book though for a game that allowed third party books. The metaphysical spellshaper is just too good. The pleasure domain does have a spell like a reversed symbol of pain, but that is another spell name I am not going to type out.