Preliminary [Playable Angel] questions.

[Bjarkmundur]

My girlfriend asked if she could play an angel in our next group.
As a DM and a boyfriend, my answer was a resounding "YES!"

.... Now I just have to figure out all the details.

Do you recommend some third party race or options to best fit her "Angry Paladin with Wings" archetype? Is it enough just to go with some blank race and give it fly speed, or can more be done to give a player the ultimate angel experience?

This is a preliminary query, meaning I'm posting this before I start reading, so I can check back here for more source matieral, posted by you guys :)

What problems might arise whilst creating this character? Are there any paladin options I should be particularly aware of? Is there a feat or a background or a magic item that works wonders for playing an angel? Is there a backstory angle I should keep in mind?

I told her "originally, angels are Machines that follow the command last given by their diety. I don't know if that leaves much room for free will, and besides, I don't know if a level 3 Angel makes much sense? " and she simply answered "so let's give her free will, and make it make sense".

This post will also act as a central hub for compiling all I've learned in one place.

[The Glyphstone]

Volo's has the Aasimar race, could you use that as a jumping-off point? I don't think they can fly, but the wings could be a visual feature, or you trade one of the Aasimar traits in for the Aarakocra wings.


EDIT: Looking it up, and Protector Aasimar (the most Angel-y kind) can fly while their Radiant Aura is active. So that could work completely un-modified with some refluffing, or just trade the aura ability entirely for permanent wings.

[Man_Over_Game]

My girlfriend asked if she could play an angel in our next group.
As a DM and a boyfriend, my answer was a resounding "YES!"

.... Now I just have to figure out all the details.

Do you recommend some third party race or options to best fit her "Angry Paladin with Wings" archetype? Is it enough just to go with some blank race and give it fly speed, or can more be done to give a player the ultimate angel experience?

This is a preliminary query, meaning I'm posting this before I start reading, so I can check back here for more source matieral, posted by you guys :)

What problems might arise whilst creating this character? Are there any paladin options I should be particularly aware of? Is there a feat or a background or a magic item that works wonders for playing an angel? Is there a backstory angle I should keep in mind?

I told her "originally, angels are Machines that follow the command last given by their diety. I don't know if that leaves much room for free will, and besides, I don't know if a level 3 Angel makes much sense? " and she simply answered "so let's give her free will, and make it make sense".

You could just use Aasimar. They are literally beings of light or darkness, and can even sprout wings for temporary flight. They're an official race, in Volo's, I think.

You could also remake Deva, which are more directly "servants of gods", although they follow the same trend as Aasimar, with more focus on gaining knowledge over taking action. Take a look at this link for some inspiration: https://dnd4.fandom.com/wiki/Deva | Keep in mind, that link is for 4e stuff, so it might have to be converted over.

Lastly, for permanent flight, consider using the Aarokocra as a template, removing all the bonus features (claws and such) and giving them resistance to Radiant damage and Vulnerability to Necrotic damage.

[GlenSmash!]

Aasimar is where I would start too.

If she really want's permanent flight, I could see it being balanced by removing some other features.

[Bjarkmundur]

Angels, according to the MM


× Sublime beauty and presence, can drive awestruck onlookers to their knees.
- Sounds like a charm or fear effect.
× Yadayada, single focus, no compromise, superiority complexes, prideful.
× Fallen angels take their fall personally, but retain their powers
- Will have to sort this out in the backstory.

I don't understand the difference between an angel, a deva and a planetar.

Thanks for the tips, guys. Aasimar is a perfect fit! No matter how stuck on the Angel concept she is, aasimar works perfectly, whether it is "someone stole your powers" or "you have angelic heritage"

[Unoriginal]

My girlfriend asked if she could play an angel in our next group.
As a DM and a boyfriend, my answer was a resounding "YES!"


Bad idea.



.... Now I just have to figure out all the details.

Do you recommend some third party race or options to best fit her "Angry Paladin with Wings" archetype? Is it enough just to go with some blank race and give it fly speed, or can more be done to give a player the ultimate angel experience?

This is a preliminary query, meaning I'm posting this before I start reading, so I can check back here for more source matieral, posted by you guys :)

If she wants to play a literal, full-power angel? Just give her a NPC statblock to play.

Otherwise, there's the Aasimar race. Celestial Warlock could be refluffed as "angel in mortal form."



Is there a backstory angle I should keep in mind?

You're apparently ditching that to make the angel playable, so no.



I told her "originally, angels are Machines that follow the command last given by their diety. I don't know if that leaves much room for free will, and besides, I don't know if a level 3 Angel makes much sense? " and she simply answered "so let's give her free will, and make it make sense".

I would have told her "sorry, that's not how it work."

Though D&D angels do have free will.



I don't understand the difference between an angel, a deva and a planetar.

Deva and Planetars are different kinds of angels. Like quasits and balors are different kinds of demons.

[Bjarkmundur]

Why the negativity, Unoriginal?

Why not just say


Aasimar and Warlock would make a cool angel concept. Hope you have fun playing your game!

[Bjarkmundur]

Radiant damage on hit, healing touch, radiant resistance, detect evil seem to be features with strong ties to angels. Aasimar and paladin gives all of that. I'll have to look into the warlock idea, I think it's an interesting idea.

[Unoriginal]

Why?

Because D&D is a game where saying "no" is often more important than saying "yes", especially when a player wants something that doesn't fit the world you've established.

Because having to play a square peg in a round hole when your concept doesn't match well with the mechanics involved is generally frustrating for all the table.

Because I'm a petty, scornful, tired man.

Take your pick.

If everything goes well and everyone ends up loving the character, then I'd be happy for you and your group. But in my experience, it's likely going to be unfulfilling. Unless if your player is fine with playing a former-angel-turned-mortal without the perks being an angel gives.

[Bjarkmundur]

it's likely going to be unfulfilling. Unless if your player is fine with playing a former-angel-turned-mortal without the perks being an angel gives.

That's actually exactly what I'm going to suggest. It's the only solution that makes sense.

I'm pretty sure you're a smart, scornful, tired man.

There's always the option of going with a full group of angels and going for some epic quest outside the material plane, but I have NO idea how to run that xD

[BloodSnake'sCha]

You can always reflug the winged tiflung

[Unoriginal]

You can always reflug the winged tiflung

A good suggestion, but the main thing the player want out of being an angel would need to be perma-wings.

[Aquillion]

The first thing to do is talk to her and get a sense of what she finds cool about playing an angel - what aspects are interesting to her, which ones aren't. Does she want permanent flight? Some form of holy power or aura? Which attributes does she picture an angel being good at? What sort of relationship does she want with her deity or the nebulous holy power that empowers or the like? Get her desired backstory and what she means by "angel" first, then decide if / how you can make that work within the constraints of your game.

Ask her what she wants to be able to do and what powers she wants to have, and guide her through which of those should come from her class (most of them) vs. her race - you didn't mention how experienced she is at D&D, but that level experience will obviously affect these discussions; if she's experienced, then she probably already has a clear outline in mind, while if she isn't you might have to walk her through the typical things a race offers, showing her examples of other races she could use as a template, as well as the powers she can gain from a class as she progresses (of course, especially if she's the only one playing that class in the party, you can refluff those powers as stemming from her angelic nature.)

Speaking of which: Also get other people's backstories, so you can figure out how they fit together while making these decisions, and generally help her design her race and character so they have their own niche and don't step on anyone's toes.

As someone said above, as a default I would read Aasimar and Aarokocra, and (assuming permanent flight) generally work on combining the two, discarding the stuff she doesn't need for her concept to balance out the core angelic things - your end result is probably going to look like that regardless. But it's important to know exactly what she wants out of this before proceeding.



Unless if your player is fine with playing a former-angel-turned-mortal without the perks being an angel gives.That's actually exactly what I'm going to suggest. It's the only solution that makes sense.

There's always the option of going with a full group of angels and going for some epic quest outside the material plane, but I have NO idea how to run that xD
It is a possibility, but... I would figure out what she likes about playing an angel first, then figure out how to combine those attributes into a playable and balanced player race. Nobody here can tell you how to do it or if it will work or not (though "combine bits and pieces of Aasimar and Aarokocra" is obviously the default starting place); you're homebrewing something for her, after all.

You also have to take this into account when working her story into the campaign. She might not be happy playing a "fallen" or "former" angel, say, simply because that doesn't fit with the backstory she has in mind.

But remember, you can adjust the cosmology of your setting - were you planning to do anything with angels otherwise? I'm guessing no. So she's not wrong that "change the setting to make it work" is a totally-valid approach, especially starting from session zero when so much is in the air. It's pretty easy to slip a PC-playable form of angels into the hierarchy without disrupting much, anyway.

Some other possibilities:

1. Angels have a younger "initial" form before they're fully subsumed into their deity's will and get the powers represented by (higher-ranking) NPC angels in the books; they are usually not seen by mortals. She's one of those young angels who has slipped out or has been sent out for whatever reason, trying to decide if she wants to go through with the process that would make her a "mature" angel (since it would sacrifice her free will and status as a PC, the presumed answer is "no", but this provides a lot of room for character development and plot hooks and finding her own path as she reaches that conclusion.)

2. She's a half-angel. This would pretty much be playing an Aasimar.

3. She's some sort of "flawed" angel, at least from the perspective of the other angels and her deity - they care about her, but in a sort of condescending way, and don't really see the value of her free will. She slipped out or, alternatively, was sent with the party as her first mission (though she shouldn't expect any sort of backup, of course, since she needs to prove herself.)

[BloodSnake'sCha]

A good suggestion, but the main thing the player want out of being an angel would need to be perma-wings.

Winged. You have bat-like wings sprouting from your shoulder blades. You have a flying speed of 30 feet while you aren’t wearing heavy armor. This trait replaces the Infernal Legacy trait.

Nothing says it is temporary.

[Aquillion]

Winged. You have bat-like wings sprouting from your shoulder blades. You have a flying speed of 30 feet while you aren’t wearing heavy armor. This trait replaces the Infernal Legacy trait.

Nothing says it is temporary.Aarakocra (https://www.dndbeyond.com/races/aarakocra), as people mentioned above, is another option for a flying PC race - and their speed is 50 feet, so they're a good reference point for people who want their flying to be faster than walking.

They don't get much else (their unarmed attacks are pretty much a ribbon, since the only class that would really want to make unarmed attacks gets that anyway), but they do get the usual +2 / +1 attributes, so there's still some room for trade-offs to produce a PC angel race balanced against them.

She'd have to decide whether she wants the faster Aarakocra flight, full +2/+1 stats, or a few additional minor perks instead (ie. perhaps some holy-themed cantrip or 1/day ability), and probably give up one of those things.

Personally I'd say that she can get the holy powers from her class and just reflavor them as angelic in origin - a Paladin's lay on hands or a Cleric's cantrips would really be enough to play a young inexperienced angel, and obviously she can then gain more holy power as she matures and gains more levels. (You could probably just throw in resistance to Radiant damage regardless given how incredibly rare it is for PCs to be targeted by that. It's so unlikely to come up that eg. sacrificing one language vs. the Aarakocra is probably fine to pay for that.)

Some people dislike Aarakocra, but they're a canon race and they don't really break anything that I've seen. Having a flying PC that non-ranged low-level encounters can't reach sounds more broken than it is - most encounters take place indoors anyway, and unless the entire party is flying it's not like she can just let her companions die.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

Winged. You have bat-like wings sprouting from your shoulder blades. You have a flying speed of 30 feet while you aren’t wearing heavy armor. This trait replaces the Infernal Legacy trait.

Nothing says it is temporary.

I think Unoriginal was saying the Winged Tiefling variant only works IF flight is the main goal.

If the player is after a holy aura, healing, hangs, etc etc, then they might need a different race.

[Aquillion]

Holy Aura, healing, and so on can all come from her class, either as a Paladin, a Cleric, or a Divine Soul Sorcerer depending on what she wants to emphasize. I think that it's important to talk to her to get a sense of what's important to her, but I assume she'd understand the need for "you start out as a younger angel and only develop your full powers as you level up", with her race serving as a presumed power source and thematic backround for one of those three classes.

[Imbalance]

One of the Ravnica guilds has stat blocks for several quasi-paladin angels that might be easily grafted onto an Aasimar template.

[JNAProductions]

I'll echo those saying "Find out exactly what she means by Angel before doing a ton of work."

Aasimar, as mentioned, is a good starting point, being angel-touched people.
Refluffing is also a good tool.

And, since you did mention that Angels in your setting lack free will... It's perfectly fine to say "No." If it clashes with your setting, save it for another game. You should ESPECIALLY ask yourself this: Would you do this if she wasn't your girlfriend?

[Unoriginal]

Winged. You have bat-like wings sprouting from your shoulder blades. You have a flying speed of 30 feet while you aren’t wearing heavy armor. This trait replaces the Infernal Legacy trait.

Nothing says it is temporary.

...yes, that's what I said.

It'd work, but only if what the player want is just perma-wings as opposed to all the other angelic stuff.

[Aquillion]

And, since you did mention that Angels in your setting lack free will... It's perfectly fine to say "No." If it clashes with your setting, save it for another game.I feel like this is a Monarda Law (https://nobilis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Monarda_Law) situation. When you have a player who is really enthusiastic about playing a particular concept, it is more fun and interesting to figure out how to turn that into something fun than to just say "no."

There are some caveats - you should consider the rest of the party's fun, too (which is why it's worth running this past them and getting their concepts so you can make sure everything fits together.) And you should avoid things that you wouldn't have fun running - it's important for the DM to have fun, too. But since OP is clearly considering this and is willing to tweak their setting, I don't think it's a problem.

But I feel that for most DMs and most games, the reflexive "no" has caused far more problems than the alternative. There's lots of interesting ways to approach this (I like the "young angel trying to decide if she wants to sacrifice her free will" idea, myself), all of which would be lost if you just went with "no, play a published race."


You should ESPECIALLY ask yourself this: Would you do this if she wasn't your girlfriend?I don't think that's a good question to ask at all. Would you be so suspicious of their willingness to consider what seems like an entirely-reasonable request if it wasn't their girlfriend?

Sometimes groups go toxic or wrong in all sorts of ways (yes, including DM favoritism for all sorts of reasons), but assuming toxicity strikes me as a bad idea. Games work best when everyone involved trusts each other to work together towards a good time and a fun story. If you have to delve into inquisitional "are you just doing this for your girlfriend?" or "is she just asking this because she wants to be more powerful than everyone else?" sorts of questions, you're already making the game less fun.

[JNAProductions]

I feel like this is a Monarda Law (https://nobilis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Monarda_Law) situation. When you have a player who is really enthusiastic about playing a particular concept, it is more fun and interesting to figure out how to turn that into something fun than to just say "no."

There are some caveats - you should consider the rest of the party's fun, too (which is why it's worth running this past them and getting their concepts so you can make sure everything fits together.) And you should avoid things that you wouldn't have fun running - it's important for the DM to have fun, too. But since OP is clearly considering this and is willing to tweak their setting, I don't think it's a problem.

But I feel that for most DMs and most games, the reflexive "no" has caused far more problems than the alternative. There's lots of interesting ways to approach this (I like the "young angel trying to decide if she wants to sacrifice her free will" idea, myself), all of which would be lost if you just went with "no, play a published race."

I don't think that's a good question to ask at all. Would you be so suspicious of their willingness to consider what seems like an entirely-reasonable request if it wasn't their girlfriend?

Sometimes groups go toxic or wrong in all sorts of ways (yes, including DM favoritism for all sorts of reasons), but assuming toxicity strikes me as a bad idea. Games work best when everyone involved trusts each other to work together towards a good time and a fun story. If you have to delve into inquisitional "are you just doing this for your girlfriend?" or "is she just asking this because she wants to be more powerful than everyone else?" sorts of questions, you're already making the game less fun.

That's pretty fair.

I'm not retracting what I said, but you do make excellent points.

[JNAProductions]

This shares a lot of my feelings too.

"You should ESPECIALLY ask yourself this: Would you do this if she wasn't your girlfriend?"

Worst DM: No, but she is, so I am.
Okay DM: No, and that makes sense.
Good DM: Hell yeah I would.


Don't ever say "No". Just find ways to make it possible that still addresses any concern you have.

I disagree with the bolded portion. I certainly agree that the default should be "Yes," but there are times when you say no.

"Hey, can I play an angel?"
"Why do you want to play an angel?"
"I super love the fluff of them, the idea of being a holy agent of a god sent to do good, and also wings are cool!"
"Okay, sure. Let me figure out how to make that work for you, kay?"

As opposed to...

"Hey, can I play an angel?"
"Why do you want to play an angel?"
"Deva's have some really hype stats, and that'd be beastly for crushing my foes!"
"This is a level 2 adventure."
"So?"

Now, exaggeration for effect obviously. But the point is, there are times to say no.

[Bjarkmundur]

I love these kind of out-there character requests. The enthusiasm I get at the table is so worth the trouble.

I do it in steps, and always have. There are many buts and whys and how's along the way. For the same reasons I always have level 1 and 2 as a kind of "free for all" when tweaking characters.

There's a reason my group has never "just met up, rolled some characters and played a game".

Her current character is the vampire in my description, my fighter uses the potion's in my description, and my warlock uses the pact in my description.

[GlenSmash!]

Angels, according to the MM


× Sublime beauty and presence, can drive awestruck onlookers to their knees.
- Sounds like a charm or fear effect.
× Yadayada, single focus, no compromise, superiority complexes, prideful.
× Fallen angels take their fall personally, but retain their powers
- Will have to sort this out in the backstory.

I don't understand the difference between an angel, a deva and a planetar.

Thanks for the tips, guys. Aasimar is a perfect fit! No matter how stuck on the Angel concept she is, aasimar works perfectly, whether it is "someone stole your powers" or "you have angelic heritage"

Devas, Planetars, and Solars are all angels. Just of varying degrees of power.

I'm glad Aasimar will work out for you. Best of luck in your gaming!

[Bjarkmundur]

I don't like crowded character sheets. Gonna combine Aasimar healing feature into lay on hands.


..... And there's nothing you can do to stop me

*puts on shades*
*hops into a mustang*
*obligatory explosion*
*epic theme song*

[Great Dragon]

Posted from PMs.



There's always the option of going with a full group of angels and going for some epic quest outside the material plane, but I have NO idea how to run that xD


I'd suggest reading Volo's for the different types of Aasimar.

Basing the entire group on different versions of these would make it where everyone feels special.

The old Planescape material could be used for the Quest.

Also, A Paladin in Hell (2e) and related modules, for retrieving Innocent or Lost Souls.



If you have a couple of (friendly) Edge Lord type Players, you could add them to the group as Tieflings - there are now 9 different types - in Mordenkainien's IiRC.

These could be seeking 'redemption' or just out to be "Heroes".



Haha, now I'm actually considering it xD

I'll think about it maybe once ive played past 10th level :)



The Cambian is the Demon version of the Tiefling.
Usually the offspring of a Succubus/Incubus.

The Cambian in the 5e MM is a half-fiend, but you can tone it down to match the Tiefling.

(The Cambian{s} can also be agents of the various Lords of the Abyss, sent to further their goals - or to stop the PCs)

"Hellspike Prison" (Fantastic Locations) is 3rd.

I think I'm getting better at organizing my thoughts.

[Unoriginal]

5e's Cambions are NOT the demon versions of Tieflings. And the Incu/Succubi aren't even demons in this edition.

They're separate Fiends from Hades.

[ProsecutorGodot]

5e's Cambions are NOT the demon versions of Tieflings. And the Incu/Succubi aren't even demons in this edition.

They're separate Fiends from Hades.

Yes, the way I understand it is:
Demon + Humanoid = Cambion
Devil + Humanoid = Cambion
Human (with infernal blood in their ancestry) + Human (not required, but may have infernal blood in their ancestry = Maybe Tiefling, but could also just as easily be a Human.

Long story short, Tiefling's are sort of an unexpected byproduct. Cambions are near guaranteed in the event that a Demon or Devil has offspring directly with a humanoid. Equating the two isn't really a fair comparison. Tiefling's are generally more human-like than fiendish. Cambions are truly fiendish, just like one of their parents.

EDIT: It's important to note the difference because Tiefling's influence from their fiendish ancestors is usually so diluted that it has minimal, if any, impact on their behavior. Cambion's, however, are so heavily impacted by their fiendish (notably, devil or demon) blood that their behavior will almost always match that of their fiendish parent and they'll see their mortal parent as lesser.

As far as I'm aware, there are no Tiefling spawned as a result of demonic influence. All mentions of them I can find attribute their creation only to Devils and the Nine Hells.

[Angelalex242]

Ya know, back in 3.5, they had a way for people to play a 'level 1' Astral Deva, and divided the Deva's powers out over 20 levels.

This isn't published in 5e, and they may not be worth 20 levels anymore anyway.

So you could just use 3.5 as a guide and split the Deva's powers up.

Or if she wants to be a really BIG angel, maybe being a deva takes 12 levels, 4 more and she's a planetar, and then at level 20 she's a Solar.

[Naanomi]

As far as I'm aware, there are no Tiefling spawned as a result of demonic influence. All mentions of them I can find attribute their creation only to Devils and the Nine Hells.
In 5e, that seems right. Historically, any fiend type could lead to a planetouched offspring... even Evil Deities in more obscure lore (mostly Forgotten Realms Mulholorand lore).

I think 4e has some excuse why they are all tied to Asmodeus even when historically they were not... the spellplague may have been involved... but I’m not very familiar with 4e lore

[Bloodcloud]

Aasimar divine soul sorcerer sounds rather fitting. Basically, slightly depowered angel regaining her former glory.

All official all the way, fully balanced, fully thematic. You get the temporary wing for now, they'll be permanent one day.

[Millstone85]

I think 4e has some excuse why they are all tied to Asmodeus even when historically they were not... the spellplague may have been involved... but I’m not very familiar with 4e loreI can't find anything in any of these 4e books:

Forgotten Realms Player's Guide
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide
Neverwinter Campaign Setting

But 5e's Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide gives this explanation:
During the Spellplague, Asmodeus consumed the divine spark of Azuth and thereby achieved godhood. Subsequently, Asmodeus and a coven of warlocks, the Toril Thirteen, performed a rite wherein the archdevil claimed all tieflings in the world as his own, cursing them to bear "the blood of Asmodeus ." This act marked all tieflings as "descendants" of the Lord of the Nine Hells, regardless of their true heritage, and changed them into creatures that resembled their supposed progenitor. The other folk of Faerûn, unnerved by the appearance of these devil-beings, became suspicious of all tieflings and occasionally hostile to them.

[ProsecutorGodot]

SNIP

This doesn't say that there could be Abyssal but it does leave the door open. Very interesting. If that lore holds though they'd only ever be Abyssal in name, seeing as they'll only ever manifest Infernal traits.

It almost seems like a copout to normalize them a bit. Maybe that's just me being cynical.

[JackPhoenix]

Yes, the way I understand it is:
Demon + Humanoid = Cambion
Devil + Humanoid = Cambion
Human (with infernal blood in their ancestry) + Human (not required, but may have infernal blood in their ancestry = Maybe Tiefling, but could also just as easily be a Human.

Long story short, Tiefling's are sort of an unexpected byproduct. Cambions are near guaranteed in the event that a Demon or Devil has offspring directly with a humanoid. Equating the two isn't really a fair comparison. Tiefling's are generally more human-like than fiendish. Cambions are truly fiendish, just like one of their parents.

From XGtE:

1-4 Both parents were humans, their infernal heritage dormant until you came along.
5-6 One parent was a tiefling and the other was a human.
7 One parent was a tiefling and the other was a devil.
8 One parent was a human and the other was a devil.

What's notable there apparently aren't any tieflings with two tiefling parents.

[Naanomi]

Now that we have a few Tiefling varieties (between SCAG and MToF); and SCAG’s alternate appearance list... really all you need is just switching out the startling language to make demonic or daemonic (or more fringe fiend-ic) Tieflings

[ProsecutorGodot]

What's notable there apparently aren't any tieflings with two tiefling parents.
Really what I'm learning here is that I didn't do as much research as I thought I did.

Seems like an oversight in that table that two Tiefling don't produce Tiefling offspring.

I guess the next question is how the human/devil parents decide whether you're a Cambion or Tiefling.

[PhantomSoul]

You should ESPECIALLY ask yourself this: Would you do this if she wasn't your girlfriend?

I think that can be important, but almost more important: make sure the other players are going to be OK with it and not feel like she's already starting to get special treatment because she's your girlfriend. Letting the others know that the options are very broad -- beyond the normal options -- would be a good start before they make their characters, and adjust not only based on how strong her race ends up being, but also how strong her race is perceived as being (that can mean showing them the flaws more explicitly, but it could also mean giving them signature abilities or something similar to make it so it doesn't feel like the campaign is "DM's angel girlfriend and the extras"). Another thing to consider -- if relevant to your DM style -- is what happens when/if her character dies, and probably discuss that with her explicitly.

It could be a lot of fun, but be prepared to make tweaks, sometimes preemptively, all the way to declining the character concept or buffing others to match (usually preferable to nerfing her) or, if need be, nerfing her after the game has started.

[JackPhoenix]

Seems like an oversight in that table that two Tiefling don't produce Tiefling offspring.

Maybe, maybe not. Both half-elf and half-orc tables have option for both parents being the same race. It is weird, but not completely implausible that some quirk of biology would require the tieflings to breed outside their species. There are similar examples in fiction... Asari from Mass Effect come to mind (sort of).

[Great Dragon]

I guess the next question is how the human/devil parents decide whether you're a Cambion or Tiefling.

That's the problem, by 5e cannon only Tieflings exist - especially for a PC Race.
Cambions only exist as a Monster.

By FR cannon (thanks Millstone85) Asmodius changed all Fiend-blooded Humanoids into Tieflings related to him.

[Unoriginal]

What's notable there apparently aren't any tieflings with two tiefling parents.

Yeah, Tieflings alone can't produce more Tieflings.



I guess the next question is how the human/devil parents decide whether you're a Cambion or Tiefling.

Also keep in mind that of all the devils, only the Archdevils (aka all those above Pit Fiends, though not necessarily Archduke-level) can reproduce according to the Mordenkainen's.

Meanwhile nearly all demons can reproduce.

[Great Dragon]

I suppose that the Archduke's cause the non-reproducing to be the case when they 'promote' the Devil's between the lower Ranks. Keeps them more under control.

For Demons - I suppose that the Devs just found it easier to just stick to Tieflings.

[Unoriginal]

I suppose that the Archduke's cause the non-reproducing to be the case when they 'promote' the Devil's between the lower Ranks. Keeps them more under control.

Well it's more that lower tier devils lack the capacity to do so, otherwise they'd have reproduction factories with mortals getting endlessly raped to produce more soldiers for the Nine Hells, and the designers would hopefully rather not have something like that in their lore. One of Hell's main problems in the Blood War is how difficult it is to get more devils compared to the Abyss's malevolently overflowing vitality.



For Demons - I suppose that the Devs just found it easier to just stick to Tieflings.

Demons never produce tieflings. The FR "Asmodeus claimed all the tieflings on Toril" stuff is just to explain why on this world there was different kinds and now there is only one.

[Naanomi]

Demons never produce tieflings. The FR "Asmodeus claimed all the tieflings on Toril" stuff is just to explain why on this world there was different kinds and now there is only one.
To explain why the most prominent tieflings in the setting lore were not tied to devils, but now are

[Great Dragon]

I actually like having 9 different Tieflings in my game. (I'm on the fence about "Feral")

So, let's say that I (as a DM) want to include Cambian as a PC race.

How many types? What would I include, and what would I change to make them stand out - assuming that I'm using Tieflings as a 'comparison' for power?

When I have both the books and the time, I can check each Demon for ideas. (Not counting Quasits or Lemere)

Moved to World Building (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584583-Adding-Cambian-as-PC-in-5e&p=23812011#post23812011)

[Millstone85]

I am also disconcerted by the decision to restrict tieflings to infernal bloodlines.

Especially when one of the early UAs, That Old Black Magic (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/07_UA_That_Old_Black_Magic.pdf), had a playable abyssal tiefling.

[Throne12]

Why the negativity, Unoriginal?

Why not just say

That's just how he rolls. most of the time he gives answers like that. But hes not maliciously mean.

[Unoriginal]

I actually like having 9 different Tieflings in my game. (I'm on the fence about "Feral")

So, let's say that I (as a DM) want to include Cambian as a PC race.

How many types? What would I include, and what would I change to make them stand out - assuming that I'm using Tieflings as a 'comparison' for power?

When I have both the books and the time, I can check each Demon for ideas. (Not counting Quasits or Lemere)

If you wanted demon-affected individuals, you could use the Simic Hybrid form the Guildmasters' Guide to Ravnica as a base.


I am also disconcerted by the decision to restrict tieflings to infernal bloodlines.

Especially when one of the early UAs, That Old Black Magic (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/07_UA_That_Old_Black_Magic.pdf), had a playable abyssal tiefling.

Eh, it's surprising, but I have no problem with it. Especially when the Mordenkainen's introduced variants based on the different Archdukes.

[loki_ragnarock]

Aasimar divine soul sorcerer sounds rather fitting. Basically, slightly depowered angel regaining her former glory.

All official all the way, fully balanced, fully thematic. You get the temporary wing for now, they'll be permanent one day.
"I keep smacking down Drow Matrons and Elemental Evils, but my truest accomplishment will be to keep Jimmy Stuart from jumping off a bridge during a bank crisis."



If her character doesn't have a wistful, almost envious look on her face every time a bell rings, then something vital is missing.

[Constructman]

I suppose that the Archduke's cause the non-reproducing to be the case when they 'promote' the Devil's between the lower Ranks. Keeps them more under control.

???

There's a character named Lorcan in Brimstone Angels who's a Cambion and his fiendish parent was an Erinyes, not an Archdevil. He survived the transition to 5e and is mentioned on the SCAG as a potential patron for Fiend Warlocks.

[Unoriginal]

???

There's a character named Lorcan in Brimstone Angels who's a Cambion and his fiendish parent was an Erinyes, not an Archdevil. He survived the transition to 5e and is mentioned on the SCAG as a potential patron for Fiend Warlocks.

Maybe his mother got promoted to archdevil by retcon, then.

[Bjarkmundur]

Thank you for all your help!

She's going for the Winged Aasimar Paladin, and I'll give her usable permanent wings when not using heavy armor :)

She's leaning towards "descendant of an angel" rather then "ex-angel", since it gives her more flexibility regarding character traits and backstory. She said she's gonna be borrowing a lot from the angel characteristics, but maybe not as... Annoying ^^

This thread has, however, but the Divine Soal sorcerer on my list of favourite subclasses :)

[Great Dragon]

This thread has, however, but the Divine Soal sorcerer on my list of favourite subclasses :)

For me, that's tied with Celestial Warlock.

[OmSwaOperations]

Current party has an Aasimar in it, and so far I've found it a pretty good subrace. The Angelic Guide part is especially fun, if you can cook up an appropriately gnomic and awe-inspiring celestial.